Deserter's Quarters seems somewhat playable. With our many ways to untap our artifacts, and enough mana, we can keep multiple threats tapped down. Aside from that, I don't see anything that's of worth.
Personally I would rather run frost titan than deserter's quarters but I would never run both. They don't accel. our game in any way and you are better of running another wrath to get rid of threats.
Here's the extremely short cliff notes version of the Set Update for Sharuum decks:
Keyword efects
Heroic - a useless mechanic for the deck, as Sharuum does not cast spells on creatures, we use activated and triggered effects on them. Cards with inspired can for the most part be dismissed outright just on this notion.
Strive: While it is a cute way to trigger inspired, it is also for tghe most part useless as most Sharuum builds run few creatures, and most of the decks's action is a function of triggers, and not the combat step. Most of these are combat pumps, and so the best utility offered will be from those that are not.
Constellation: also useless as the deck is artifact based, not enchantment based.
Inspired: While very narrow, and mainly used as a bonus for untapping attackers, Sharuum does have some methods to tap and untap permanents at its disposal. The question becomes, whether it is work the extra works it will take to incorporate that into the list.
Aegis of the Gods: True believer at an easier mana cost. While this effect is not necessary for the deck, having a creature that is a target for enlightened tutor can be very helpful for those who need it. More importantly, it may be a tool used against us in enviroments that are very Sharuum heavy as a way to prevent the Bitter Ordeal kill.
Banishing Light: O-Ring #2. Not helpful to us, but now another speed-bump in the road for those opponents who want this kind of effect.
Eilodon of Rhetoric: A better Aethersworn Cannonist for opponents. This effect doesn't bother most Salvaging station builds because they use abilities to generate the effects of spells.
Godsend: Not very useful as Sharuum doesn't need combat equipment. The triggered and static effects are nice, but would seem way too threatening to allow to stay on the board for long, especiallt aginst tables with a lot of g/x players
Kiora's Dismissal: This card is very niche, but i do feel it has some merits, especially in very God and Enchantment rich metas. The card essentially is a replicate unsummon for enchantments. The reason I like it is because it is an instant with "replicate". In a pinch, you can EOT Rest in Peace, leyline of the void, Gods, and more to players hand, which then feeds your windfall to net more cards. You can set up something similar where you cast mystical tutor for this card, and then crack open memory jar to then trap those problem enchantments in their hands which will then get pitched. It's not a very good card on its own. but does offer tempo possibilities with it's flexibility.
Hour of Need: Best use is on thopter and myr tokens, but I feel this isn't good enough and a waste of a slot.
Polymorphous Rush: This card has some potential. It is not a clone, as it does not come with a body attached, and it cannot copy enter the battlefield abilities, which is a huge loss. However, it does allow you to do things that you ordinarily could not do. Much like many of the cards in my personal list, its strength is not readily apparent until you learn to use the non-obvious interactions. It can reset Sharuum, and more importantly the recursion trigger, at instant speed, allowing you to jumpstart the combo incidentally.
It can be used to beat opponents down with the "airforce plan" very efficiently when used in tandem with Sphinx of the Steel Wind and your myr/ thopter tokens. This level of life gain can often put games out of reach in one swing, and proactively prevent the surprise "craterhoof kills."
The upside is the ability to, take advantage of the type changing effects if needed. The ability to activate an inkmoth nexus and clone your karn and sphinex into lands for a turn to avoid a sweeper, or to animate a darksteel ingot with Karn and clone your artifact creatures into an ingot or a God from a vandalblast is huge and not to be underestimated. Sharuum decks can be very resilient, and the ability to save your board-building artiifacts from sweeper is too important to ignore. I don't think this card is a staple, but it does offer interactions that are not possible with most other clone variants. You can selevtvely wirrorweave whatever you chose, and that's a very powerful.
Agent of Erebos: I can see this card becoming problematic in certain environments, including ours
Atheros, God of Passage: completely useless, does nothing relevant for Sharuum pilots as the decisions are in your opponent's hands.
Deciple of Deceit: This is a very powerful card. It has to be viewed as a Fauna Shaman that gives all your cards in hand "Transmute 0" When you look at Most Sharuum lists, the mana costs overlap on our most powerful cards:
2 mana: Thopter Foundry, Sword of the meek, Time Sieve, transmute artifact
3 mana: Scultping Steel, ensnaring bridge, rings of brighthearth, bitter ordeal
4 mana: metamorph, tawnos's coffin, trading post, tezzeret, agent of bolas
6 mana: Sharuum, salvaging station, mindslaver, steel hellkite, Open the vaults
7 mana: myr battlesphere, Karn Liberated, roar of reclamation, magister sphinx.
having the ability to dump our artifacts to search for our non-artifact bombs is not something to be taken lightly. The only way my specific list can force untaps is by removing something with creatures with Coffin and untapping coffin. There are ways to add effects to synergize with Disciple of Deceit, but those hoops have to be worth the inclusion. I don't this we are there yet, but I think we can be in time. This is one to watch out for.
Mana Confluence - And edh staple
Deserter's quarters: Tawnos's coffin does this effect, but better, and can be used to blink as well. This card is garbage, as are the rest of the artifacts from journey into Nyx.
We should start looking into offerings from our summer sets and the next block.
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Does the new Jace have any application for Sharuum? I can see it having some potential as a source of card selection, filling up out GY, and perhaps getting the -8 off for a pseudo-Timetwister effect.
The untap ability is awesome, but not something worth paying 6mana for. The first ability is also decent, but again not something to pay 6 mana for. I'm gonna have to pass.
On a side note, I was working on a huge primer on ways to build Sharuum, until my iPhone update knocked out most of my unsaved primer notes. I was pissed, but am working on putting it back together.
I should sync my phone to my PC more often.
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For those who were running Darksteel Forge, the Soul of New Phyrexia is a pretty solid replacement. It's a reasonably costed beater and it's ability can be activated from the graveyard, so you could Entomb/Discard and activate it in a pinch.
Had two games running Sharuum; one 4 player free-for-all, and a 2 headed giant game. Won both quite easily.
For the free-for-all game, there was one other competitive deck (Kozilek), and two more casual decks (Prossh and I think Animar). Kozilek player started out strong, ramped up and cast Kozilek, with a bunch of mana rocks on the table. Prossh and Animar players played a bunch of non-impactful spells; the Prossh player made a bunch of Kobolds. Fortunately I was able to control the board with Ensnaring Bridge, dropping some mana rocks and utility trinkets. Saw gravehate artifacts come out, and baited an early activation with very little in my yard. Sat back for most of the game, until Bridge was blown up and the Kozilek player was a legitimate threat. Prossh and Animar ganged up and killed the Kozilek player - who had an artifact that made him Hexproof - I wouldn't have been able to Bitter Ordeal him, so that did me a favour. A few turns later, I comboed out and won handily.
Some things to take away from this game: I saw Oblation and cast it, but it was countered, however, it had stayed in my hand for awhile without me wanting to play it. It will be replaced by Karn Liberated. Dispeller's Capsule was exiled early on, leaving me with no way to destroy artifacts/enchantments. I saw a few pages back that some people expressed the desire for something else to double up on enchantment/artifact removal and I agree. Maybe Act of Authority could be an option?
Not much to say for the two headed giant game. I basically dug through my library, tutored up what I needed and Bitter Ordealed without much fuss.
Just ordered Karn Liberated, Crucible of Worlds, Petrified Field, Rings of Brighthearth and Necrologia, to replace two lands, Oblation, Lim-Dul's Vault and Meekstone. Meekstone was too much of an answer with limited applications, and the same with Oblation. I decided to replace Lim-Dul's Vault with Necrologia, because I prefer putting cards directly into my hand instead of setting up my draws. Hopefully Sensei's Divining Top and fetchlands will help with smoothing out top decks.
I also obtained a Marsh Flats, but am missing the other two on colour fetches. Hopefully, they'll be reprinted sometime in the next year, along with some other nice dual lands.
I also obtained a Marsh Flats, but am missing the other two on colour fetches. Hopefully, they'll be reprinted sometime in the next year, along with some other nice dual lands.
Just a reminder, you can run all 10 fetch lands in EDH in any deck.
Yep, but I don't want to run too many, for both financial reasons and the fact that I'm only running the 3 shocklands and 1 of each basic. ABUR duals are way out of my price range. If WOTC print more fetchable duals, I'd consider running more fetches.
The untap ability is awesome, but not something worth paying 6mana for. The first ability is also decent, but again not something to pay 6 mana for. I'm gonna have to pass.
On a side note, I was working on a huge primer on ways to build Sharuum, until my iPhone update knocked out most of my unsaved primer notes. I was pissed, but am working on putting it back together.
I should sync my phone to my PC more often.
What are your thoughts on new Jace? Have you tested him?
Quote from serrasin »"
I didn"t get a chance to, but not because I haven"t had a chance to play. When looking at the deck, I couldn"t even see a spot where I would want to slot him over something else. The effects are so niche, and are done by other things in out deck so much better, that the it"s not worth slotting to get to its ultimate. This card is built more as a planeswalker to bridge Superfriends walkers from phase 1 or their game to phase 3.
For those who were running Darksteel Forge, the Soul of New Phyrexia is a pretty solid replacement. It's a reasonably costed beater and it's ability can be activated from the graveyard, so you could Entomb/Discard and activate it in a pinch.
Had two games running Sharuum; one 4 player free-for-all, and a 2 headed giant game. Won both quite easily..
I am not sure if I will play him, but he is interesting. I've been pming with a few guys who can go in as deep as I have with filling out the list, and so for their lists, this is a wrong possibility. The activation is very expensive, but he provides the ability to be a huge tempo blow-out. He is a card that is a pretty good tutor target for forgemaster, and good sac fodder for forgemaster. For those lists that play in metas with opponents who play vandal blast effects over aura shards, this is huge.
For the free-for-all game, there was one other competitive deck (Kozilek), and two more casual decks (Prossh and I think Animar). Kozilek player started out strong, ramped up and cast Kozilek, with a bunch of mana rocks on the table. Prossh and Animar players played a bunch of non-impactful spells; the Prossh player made a bunch of Kobolds. Fortunately I was able to control the board with Ensnaring Bridge, dropping some mana rocks and utility trinkets. Saw gravehate artifacts come out, and baited an early activation with very little in my yard. Sat back for most of the game, until Bridge was blown up and the Kozilek player was a legitimate threat. Prossh and Animar ganged up and killed the Kozilek player - who had an artifact that made him Hexproof - I wouldn't have been able to Bitter Ordeal him, so that did me a favour. A few turns later, I comboed out and won handily.
Some things to take away from this game: I saw Oblation and cast it, but it was countered, however, it had stayed in my hand for awhile without me wanting to play it. It will be replaced by Karn Liberated. Dispeller's Capsule was exiled early on, leaving me with no way to destroy artifacts/enchantments. I saw a few pages back that some people expressed the desire for something else to double up on enchantment/artifact removal and I agree. Maybe Act of Authority could be an option?
Not much to say for the two headed giant game. I basically dug through my library, tutored up what I needed and Bitter Ordealed without much fuss.
Just ordered Karn Liberated, Crucible of Worlds, Petrified Field, Rings of Brighthearth and Necrologia, to replace two lands, Oblation, Lim-Dul's Vault and Meekstone. Meekstone was too much of an answer with limited applications, and the same with Oblation. I decided to replace Lim-Dul's Vault with Necrologia, because I prefer putting cards directly into my hand instead of setting up my draws. Hopefully Sensei's Divining Top and fetchlands will help with smoothing out top decks.
I also obtained a Marsh Flats, but am missing the other two on colour fetches. Hopefully, they'll be reprinted sometime in the next year, along with some other nice dual lands.
Looking forward to the primer, Jostin!
We need another form of artifact / enchantment removal in an artifact. Act of authority is recurrable only with open the vaults. The only problem is that people will be tempted to donate it cuz it's there, and it's easy to give I away to nail another artifact or enchantment. The problem is, it's much worse against us than for us.
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We need another form of artifact / enchantment removal in an artifact. Act of authority is recurrable only with open the vaults. The only problem is that people will be tempted to donate it cuz it's there, and it's easy to give I away to nail another artifact or enchantment. The problem is, it's much worse against us than for us.
You're right, ideally it'll have to be an artifact. I had a hunch that Act of Authority doesn't warrant a slot; while it can be 'reset' with Venser, the interaction threshold that you advocate is way too low I suppose. If it were an artifact, I suspect the case would be different, since we have ways to sacrifice and recur it with our various engines and standalone card effects.
I've used Necrologia years ago. It's a good draw spell, and for enough life, a good discard outlet. The timing restriction in addition to the high cost is the main reason I looked to other draw spells. Again, if budgetary reasons prohibit one from owning a twister or time spiral, or an entomb or Intuition. This card isn't either, but provides some overlap for both effects.
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I've used Necrologia years ago. It's a good draw spell, and for enough life, a good discard outlet. The timing restriction in addition to the high cost is the main reason I looked to other draw spells. Again, if budgetary reasons prohibit one from owning a twister or time spiral, or an entomb or Intuition. This card isn't either, but provides some overlap for both effects.
My draw suite consists of Mind's Eye, Time Spiral, Fact or Fiction, Memory Jar, Windfall and Thirst for Knowledge, as well as the aforementioned Necrologia. I'm hoping that there'll be a magical Christmas-land game where I cast Necrologia, dump a bunch of artifacts into the yard, then Open the Vaults/Roar of Reclamation the next turn.
As far as tutors go I'm running Artificer's Intuition, Kuldotha Forgemaster, Demonic Tutor, vampiric Tutor, Entomb, Intuition, Transmute Artifact and Enlightened Tutor. I also threw Lim-Dul's Vault back in after noticing I wasn't getting enough usage out of Bojuka Bog. Now I'm at 35 lands, which should be fine, hopefully. I noticed that you've decided not to run Enlightened Tutor - can you explain the choice not to include it? Right now, it's one of my flex slots that could potentially be replaced in future.
For the record, Jostin, it can also be recurred with Sun Titan. He's been the MVP of my deck for months now and he's without a doubt my favorite card in the entire format (well, maybe he's tied with Smokestack). As a matter of fact, I'm tempted to include Act of Authority in my current build just because it has synergy with Sun Titan and Smokestack.
As for Soul of New Phyrexia, I don't think it makes the cut. I don't want to have to leave that much mana open when I can either run counterspells or reanimate Forge. I like it, and I'd probably run it in Bosh, Kozilek, or Memnarch, but in this list I'd rather hold an answer to mass removal in my hand (a safer zone) than in my graveyard (a public zone that's already always under fire in Sharuum lists).
That's pretty interesting - I saw Sun Titan a few times during half a dozen games, but I never felt it did enough. I would cast it, and recur some random cog, and that'll be the extent of its use. Right now, Sun Titan is also a flex slot and could be replaced if another more desirable card is released. What kind of plays have you done with it to warrant its inclusion?
I've found that the the Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek combo to be incredibly powerful. Infact, I can attribute a great many of my victories to it showing up either because of the lifegain, or ability to generate a win condition on demand (attackers, infinite turns, graveyard triggers. Etc). In fact the cards have been so successful, that I'm looking to take them out because they eclipse so many of the other interactions in the deck. I want to look at the deck from new angles. To that end I'd like to propose a thought experiment; Thopter Foundry becomes banned in EDH. How does this change the dynamic of Sharuum for you? For myself its had a huge impact on the rest of the deck and I am really coming to appreciate just how much of a lynch-pin it has been all along.
I noticed that you've decided not to run Enlightened Tutor - can you explain the choice not to include it? Right now, it's one of my flex slots that could potentially be replaced in future.
I personally don't run it in Sharuum because of the combined issue of card advantage loss, and because it reveals to the opponents. There are enough other choices for tutors which do not have one or either of these complications.
For the record, Jostin, it can also be recurred with Sun Titan. He's been the MVP of my deck for months now and he's without a doubt my favorite card in the entire format (well, maybe he's tied with Smokestack). As a matter of fact, I'm tempted to include Act of Authority in my current build just because it has synergy with Sun Titan and Smokestack.
As for Soul of New Phyrexia, I don't think it makes the cut. I don't want to have to leave that much mana open when I can either run counterspells or reanimate Forge. I like it, and I'd probably run it in Bosh, Kozilek, or Memnarch, but in this list I'd rather hold an answer to mass removal in my hand (a safer zone) than in my graveyard (a public zone that's already always under fire in Sharuum lists).
I don't think Soul of Phyrexia makes the cut cuz the protection clause is too damn expensive. However, on thing to note is that it is both good before and after a forgemaster activation. If you find that you simply need that one turn to avoid a blowout, and aren't running theoverlapping recursive engines for the deck, it is something you may want to consider. That's all.
As for Act of Authority, Running Titan indeed makes it stronger, but I'm of the opinion that it still would be far stronger if Act of Authority was an artifact of the same cost instead of an enchantment, and I personally don't want to be forced to run Titan to justify its inclusion. Titan is a bad-ass, but it can be equally as devastating if Bribery'ed from your deck. Act is a great are to run against us as well, and reducing damaging bribery targets for our opponents to reuse it isn't a bad thing.
[quote from="Jostin123 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/217067-sharuum-everyones-favorite-kitty?comment=565"]I've used Necrologia years ago. It's a good draw spell, and for enough life, a good discard outlet. The timing restriction in addition to the high cost is the main reason I looked to other draw spells. Again, if budgetary reasons prohibit one from owning a twister or time spiral, or an entomb or Intuition. This card isn't either, but provides some overlap for both effects.
My draw suite consists of Mind's Eye, Time Spiral, Fact or Fiction, Memory Jar, Windfall and Thirst for Knowledge, as well as the aforementioned Necrologia. I'm hoping that there'll be a magical Christmas-land game where I cast Necrologia, dump a bunch of artifacts into the yard, then Open the Vaults/Roar of Reclamation the next turn.
As far as tutors go I'm running Artificer's Intuition, Kuldotha Forgemaster, Demonic Tutor, vampiric Tutor, Entomb, Intuition, Transmute Artifact and Enlightened Tutor. I also threw Lim-Dul's Vault back in after noticing I wasn't getting enough usage out of Bojuka Bog. Now I'm at 35 lands, which should be fine, hopefully. I noticed that you've decided not to run Enlightened Tutor - can you explain the choice not to include it? Right now, it's one of my flex slots that could potentially be replaced in future.
Serrasin put it best: it doesn't tutor for everything, and especially with running a Bazaar in the deck, there is a need to minimize card disadvantage spells. The weakest tutor in the list is actually Entomb at this moment, which I think speaks to how efficient the tutors are.
For the record, Jostin, it can also be recurred with Sun Titan. He's been the MVP of my deck for months now and he's without a doubt my favorite card in the entire format (well, maybe he's tied with Smokestack). As a matter of fact, I'm tempted to include Act of Authority in my current build just because it has synergy with Sun Titan and Smokestack.
As for Soul of New Phyrexia, I don't think it makes the cut. I don't want to have to leave that much mana open when I can either run counterspells or reanimate Forge. I like it, and I'd probably run it in Bosh, Kozilek, or Memnarch, but in this list I'd rather hold an answer to mass removal in my hand (a safer zone) than in my graveyard (a public zone that's already always under fire in Sharuum lists).
I agree. I don't run answers, just more threats, but I understand why you feel this way. For me, the safest zone for Soul of Phyrexia would be in the library, where it could be Pulled via Transmute Artifact, entomb, or Forgemaster for that one key activation, if necessary, with mimimal exposure. I wouldn't run it, but I could understand where people with far different lists would.
That's pretty interesting - I saw Sun Titan a few times during half a dozen games, but I never felt it did enough. I would cast it, and recur some random cog, and that'll be the extent of its use. Right now, Sun Titan is also a flex slot and could be replaced if another more desirable card is released. What kind of plays have you done with it to warrant its inclusion?
It most often would rebuy broken mana rocks, which is good, but not amazing. Salvaging station did this much better, by using better mana rocks.
I've found that the the Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek combo to be incredibly powerful. Infact, I can attribute a great many of my victories to it showing up either because of the lifegain, or ability to generate a win condition on demand (attackers, infinite turns, graveyard triggers. Etc). In fact the cards have been so successful, that I'm looking to take them out because they eclipse so many of the other interactions in the deck. I want to look at the deck from new angles. To that end I'd like to propose a thought experiment; Thopter Foundry becomes banned in EDH. How does this change the dynamic of Sharuum for you? For myself its had a huge impact on the rest of the deck and I am really coming to appreciate just how much of a lynch-pin it has been all along.
This is a great question.
Thopter combo is the reason this deck can eat Eldrazi attacks and shrug the damage and triggers off like they're nothing. It alongside bazaar and Ensnaring bridge has locked down whole tables while opponents eat exponentially growing damage every turn through flying damage, and is one if the greatest defensive tools the deck has to offer. If Thopter became banned, it would open up 2 slots for the deck. The deck would lose:
1) another route to infinite turns via Time Sieve. This would best be replaced by Thopter assembly and Myr Battlesphere. I the latter but both the former.
2) an efficient attack plan. Thopter beats closes games period, and I'd be looking for the next best attack plan for beating down and gaining life. The Airforce plan does this already, but Thopter beats supported the plan.
3) blunting Prison strategies (this includes Eldrazi triggers) This would place more reliance on Battlesphere and other less efficient token generators and more reliance on blink effects, which if included, changes deck composition drastically.
4) Would need another sacrifice outlet: whether saving our stuff from swords or act of authority, or setting up a broken roar of reclamation, we would need another cheap sac outlet to do our dirty work, and artifact sac outlets that don't fold to a Mindslaver are very hard to come by.
The two slots gained could not cover all of these holes at the same time, and not nearly as efficiently. Decks would be pushed more towards the edges and away from the middle. Some would go the combo routs and forms to junk-like disruption and some efficient beats. Others would go the beatdown route and fold to more efficient combo.
I would probably add Mycosynth Lattice as a means to stop The omnipresent vandalblasts and ramp in my metas by cutting off my opponent't mana with Karn with one slot. The other slot would have to be tested, but I would consider animate dead effects. I wouldn't snap-include disk/forge because opponents are too smart to not bounce forge in repomse to the disk trigger, and because forge is an otherwise dead card. And no, I wouldn't pay 7 mana for soul of ohyrexia to do a forge impression with disk out.
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Thopter combo is the reason this deck can eat Eldrazi attacks and shrug the damage and triggers off like they're nothing. It alongside bazaar and Ensnaring bridge has locked down whole tables while opponents eat exponentially growing damage every turn through flying damage, and is one if the greatest defensive tools the deck has to offer. If Thopter became banned, it would open up 2 slots for the deck. The deck would lose:
1) another route to infinite turns via Time Sieve. This would best be replaced by Thopter assembly and Myr Battlesphere. I the latter but both the former.
2) an efficient attack plan. Thopter beats closes games period, and I'd be looking for the next best attack plan for beating down and gaining life. The Airforce plan does this already, but Thopter beats supported the plan.
3) blunting Prison strategies (this includes Eldrazi triggers) This would place more reliance on Battlesphere and other less efficient token generators and more reliance on blink effects, which if included, changes deck composition drastically.
4) Would need another sacrifice outlet: whether saving our stuff from swords or act of authority, or setting up a broken roar of reclamation, we would need another cheap sac outlet to do our dirty work, and artifact sac outlets that don't fold to a Mindslaver are very hard to come by.
The two slots gained could not cover all of these holes at the same time, and not nearly as efficiently. Decks would be pushed more towards the edges and away from the middle. Some would go the combo routs and forms to junk-like disruption and some efficient beats. Others would go the beatdown route and fold to more efficient combo.
I would probably add Mycosynth Lattice as a means to stop The omnipresent vandalblasts and ramp in my metas by cutting off my opponent't mana with Karn with one slot. The other slot would have to be tested, but I would consider animate dead effects. I wouldn't snap-include disk/forge because opponents are too smart to not bounce forge in repomse to the disk trigger, and because forge is an otherwise dead card. And no, I wouldn't pay 7 mana for soul of ohyrexia to do a forge impression with disk out.
I wasn't really looking at Forge/Soul both because of the reason you mentioned, but also because its fairly common for my group to just keep clearing the table to the point that there is little worth protecting like that anyways. I don't know what other tables look at, but I can set my watch by the next impending Austere Command. Sure, those 'Mousetrap' style combos are fun, but getting it done usually means tighter and tighter interactions. One of the cards which I was looking at was Beacon of Unrest since it can bring a combo piece or creature into play; but you're not just limited to your own 'yard.
It's as you say though, you cant just replace the cards and patch the deck together. You really need to tear it down and re-evaluate all of the interactions and possible plans. The sad reality is that I am not sure there is another artifact that could be a cornerstone like Thopter Foundry to shift to. I think the best that you could hope for would be to replace those cards with enablers and lean more on the other key interactions that you already had. In someways that's a little disappointing.
I can set my watch by the next impending Austere Command.
I was laughing my ass off at this. It's so damn true. Facing that sweeper 4-6 times a game is the reason I moved towards salvaging station as my go-to engine enabler.
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That kinda what I was thinking with Beacon of Unrest. It would allow for the recovery of engine parts like the station without exposing Sharuum. I've had players try and bait Sharuum to tuck her by casting a board wipe.
I've taken out Sun titan and Enlightened tutor and replaced then with Sunder and Basalt Monolith to try out. I think it'll be a good change for my meta. Our games go on long enough that many land drops are made and high cost spells are played, so this'll slow them down significantly.
Wow, people still post here? I'm impressed! Hi Guys, it's been a while.
During the time I've been away, my list has radically changed as well. Thanks to a very good friend of mine on twitter, @TheProxyGuy, I recently obtained Foil, Full-art copies of Workshop and Time Twister. That aside, I've also shifted a lot of the mana rocks I was using, utilizing "mana eggs" due to their cantriping ability. Also, Jostin123, you'll be happy to hear I'm running Karn, Silver Golem. You were absolutely right on the mark about it, and this deck/thread/primer owes a great deal to you.
The new lest is performing quite well.
I'm going to be writing a new comprehensive walk-through with the list, along with a video for CMDR decks. You guys will finally get to see my ugly mug!
I'll change the OP and post the video when it's done. For all practical purposes, unless something earth shattering gets released or we get a new artifact set, I'm considering my build of Sharuum "complete" for now.
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Anyone who disagrees with "Jack from NC" is an idiot."-The Dead Weatherman
My draw suite consists of Mind's Eye, Time Spiral, Fact or Fiction, Memory Jar, Windfall and Thirst for Knowledge, as well as the aforementioned Necrologia. I'm hoping that there'll be a magical Christmas-land game where I cast Necrologia, dump a bunch of artifacts into the yard, then Open the Vaults/Roar of Reclamation the next turn.
I don't seem to remember Necrologia in your last posted list, do you have a newer list you could post? I tried the list you posted months ago, but it was too slow to be competitive in my meta, if you have a new faster decklist I would love to see it.
Necrologia was a card used when I first built Sharuum, way before I incorporated the Salvaging station Engine. That was many lists ago, before I started posting on MTG salvation.
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Necrologia was a card used when I first built Sharuum, way before I incorporated the Salvaging station Engine. That was many lists ago, before I started posting on MTG salvation.
Ah ok, I see, the salvaging station build was much too slow for my meta, I needed something that could jump out in front of a Prossh/Mayael/Kaalia 3 on 1 grand slam. So far only Wanderer has been vicious enough to stop them from trying to gang up on me. This is at an 8 player table so it may not be a great place for a Sharuum list.
That was also a misquote. The original post came from me and I'm guessing something screwed up with the quote option.
I believe bitteroot runs Necrologia in his list, which I think is more of a fast combo deck. It's a vastly different build, but might be worth a look
Personally I would rather run frost titan than deserter's quarters but I would never run both. They don't accel. our game in any way and you are better of running another wrath to get rid of threats.
Keyword efects
Heroic - a useless mechanic for the deck, as Sharuum does not cast spells on creatures, we use activated and triggered effects on them. Cards with inspired can for the most part be dismissed outright just on this notion.
Strive: While it is a cute way to trigger inspired, it is also for tghe most part useless as most Sharuum builds run few creatures, and most of the decks's action is a function of triggers, and not the combat step. Most of these are combat pumps, and so the best utility offered will be from those that are not.
Constellation: also useless as the deck is artifact based, not enchantment based.
Inspired: While very narrow, and mainly used as a bonus for untapping attackers, Sharuum does have some methods to tap and untap permanents at its disposal. The question becomes, whether it is work the extra works it will take to incorporate that into the list.
Aegis of the Gods: True believer at an easier mana cost. While this effect is not necessary for the deck, having a creature that is a target for enlightened tutor can be very helpful for those who need it. More importantly, it may be a tool used against us in enviroments that are very Sharuum heavy as a way to prevent the Bitter Ordeal kill.
Banishing Light: O-Ring #2. Not helpful to us, but now another speed-bump in the road for those opponents who want this kind of effect.
Eilodon of Rhetoric: A better Aethersworn Cannonist for opponents. This effect doesn't bother most Salvaging station builds because they use abilities to generate the effects of spells.
Godsend: Not very useful as Sharuum doesn't need combat equipment. The triggered and static effects are nice, but would seem way too threatening to allow to stay on the board for long, especiallt aginst tables with a lot of g/x players
Kiora's Dismissal: This card is very niche, but i do feel it has some merits, especially in very God and Enchantment rich metas. The card essentially is a replicate unsummon for enchantments. The reason I like it is because it is an instant with "replicate". In a pinch, you can EOT Rest in Peace, leyline of the void, Gods, and more to players hand, which then feeds your windfall to net more cards. You can set up something similar where you cast mystical tutor for this card, and then crack open memory jar to then trap those problem enchantments in their hands which will then get pitched. It's not a very good card on its own. but does offer tempo possibilities with it's flexibility.
Hour of Need: Best use is on thopter and myr tokens, but I feel this isn't good enough and a waste of a slot.
Polymorphous Rush: This card has some potential. It is not a clone, as it does not come with a body attached, and it cannot copy enter the battlefield abilities, which is a huge loss. However, it does allow you to do things that you ordinarily could not do. Much like many of the cards in my personal list, its strength is not readily apparent until you learn to use the non-obvious interactions. It can reset Sharuum, and more importantly the recursion trigger, at instant speed, allowing you to jumpstart the combo incidentally.
It can be used to beat opponents down with the "airforce plan" very efficiently when used in tandem with Sphinx of the Steel Wind and your myr/ thopter tokens. This level of life gain can often put games out of reach in one swing, and proactively prevent the surprise "craterhoof kills."
The upside is the ability to, take advantage of the type changing effects if needed. The ability to activate an inkmoth nexus and clone your karn and sphinex into lands for a turn to avoid a sweeper, or to animate a darksteel ingot with Karn and clone your artifact creatures into an ingot or a God from a vandalblast is huge and not to be underestimated. Sharuum decks can be very resilient, and the ability to save your board-building artiifacts from sweeper is too important to ignore. I don't think this card is a staple, but it does offer interactions that are not possible with most other clone variants. You can selevtvely wirrorweave whatever you chose, and that's a very powerful.
Agent of Erebos: I can see this card becoming problematic in certain environments, including ours
Atheros, God of Passage: completely useless, does nothing relevant for Sharuum pilots as the decisions are in your opponent's hands.
Deciple of Deceit: This is a very powerful card. It has to be viewed as a Fauna Shaman that gives all your cards in hand "Transmute 0" When you look at Most Sharuum lists, the mana costs overlap on our most powerful cards:
2 mana: Thopter Foundry, Sword of the meek, Time Sieve, transmute artifact
3 mana: Scultping Steel, ensnaring bridge, rings of brighthearth, bitter ordeal
4 mana: metamorph, tawnos's coffin, trading post, tezzeret, agent of bolas
6 mana: Sharuum, salvaging station, mindslaver, steel hellkite, Open the vaults
7 mana: myr battlesphere, Karn Liberated, roar of reclamation, magister sphinx.
having the ability to dump our artifacts to search for our non-artifact bombs is not something to be taken lightly. The only way my specific list can force untaps is by removing something with creatures with Coffin and untapping coffin. There are ways to add effects to synergize with Disciple of Deceit, but those hoops have to be worth the inclusion. I don't this we are there yet, but I think we can be in time. This is one to watch out for.
Mana Confluence - And edh staple
Deserter's quarters: Tawnos's coffin does this effect, but better, and can be used to blink as well. This card is garbage, as are the rest of the artifacts from journey into Nyx.
We should start looking into offerings from our summer sets and the next block.
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Thoughts on the new Teferi?
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On a side note, I was working on a huge primer on ways to build Sharuum, until my iPhone update knocked out most of my unsaved primer notes. I was pissed, but am working on putting it back together.
I should sync my phone to my PC more often.
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For the free-for-all game, there was one other competitive deck (Kozilek), and two more casual decks (Prossh and I think Animar). Kozilek player started out strong, ramped up and cast Kozilek, with a bunch of mana rocks on the table. Prossh and Animar players played a bunch of non-impactful spells; the Prossh player made a bunch of Kobolds. Fortunately I was able to control the board with Ensnaring Bridge, dropping some mana rocks and utility trinkets. Saw gravehate artifacts come out, and baited an early activation with very little in my yard. Sat back for most of the game, until Bridge was blown up and the Kozilek player was a legitimate threat. Prossh and Animar ganged up and killed the Kozilek player - who had an artifact that made him Hexproof - I wouldn't have been able to Bitter Ordeal him, so that did me a favour. A few turns later, I comboed out and won handily.
Some things to take away from this game: I saw Oblation and cast it, but it was countered, however, it had stayed in my hand for awhile without me wanting to play it. It will be replaced by Karn Liberated. Dispeller's Capsule was exiled early on, leaving me with no way to destroy artifacts/enchantments. I saw a few pages back that some people expressed the desire for something else to double up on enchantment/artifact removal and I agree. Maybe Act of Authority could be an option?
Not much to say for the two headed giant game. I basically dug through my library, tutored up what I needed and Bitter Ordealed without much fuss.
Just ordered Karn Liberated, Crucible of Worlds, Petrified Field, Rings of Brighthearth and Necrologia, to replace two lands, Oblation, Lim-Dul's Vault and Meekstone. Meekstone was too much of an answer with limited applications, and the same with Oblation. I decided to replace Lim-Dul's Vault with Necrologia, because I prefer putting cards directly into my hand instead of setting up my draws. Hopefully Sensei's Divining Top and fetchlands will help with smoothing out top decks.
I also obtained a Marsh Flats, but am missing the other two on colour fetches. Hopefully, they'll be reprinted sometime in the next year, along with some other nice dual lands.
Looking forward to the primer, Jostin!
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We need another form of artifact / enchantment removal in an artifact. Act of authority is recurrable only with open the vaults. The only problem is that people will be tempted to donate it cuz it's there, and it's easy to give I away to nail another artifact or enchantment. The problem is, it's much worse against us than for us.
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You're right, ideally it'll have to be an artifact. I had a hunch that Act of Authority doesn't warrant a slot; while it can be 'reset' with Venser, the interaction threshold that you advocate is way too low I suppose. If it were an artifact, I suspect the case would be different, since we have ways to sacrifice and recur it with our various engines and standalone card effects.
Do you have any opinions on running Necrologia?
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My draw suite consists of Mind's Eye, Time Spiral, Fact or Fiction, Memory Jar, Windfall and Thirst for Knowledge, as well as the aforementioned Necrologia. I'm hoping that there'll be a magical Christmas-land game where I cast Necrologia, dump a bunch of artifacts into the yard, then Open the Vaults/Roar of Reclamation the next turn.
As far as tutors go I'm running Artificer's Intuition, Kuldotha Forgemaster, Demonic Tutor, vampiric Tutor, Entomb, Intuition, Transmute Artifact and Enlightened Tutor. I also threw Lim-Dul's Vault back in after noticing I wasn't getting enough usage out of Bojuka Bog. Now I'm at 35 lands, which should be fine, hopefully. I noticed that you've decided not to run Enlightened Tutor - can you explain the choice not to include it? Right now, it's one of my flex slots that could potentially be replaced in future.
That's pretty interesting - I saw Sun Titan a few times during half a dozen games, but I never felt it did enough. I would cast it, and recur some random cog, and that'll be the extent of its use. Right now, Sun Titan is also a flex slot and could be replaced if another more desirable card is released. What kind of plays have you done with it to warrant its inclusion?
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I personally don't run it in Sharuum because of the combined issue of card advantage loss, and because it reveals to the opponents. There are enough other choices for tutors which do not have one or either of these complications.
My draw suite consists of Mind's Eye, Time Spiral, Fact or Fiction, Memory Jar, Windfall and Thirst for Knowledge, as well as the aforementioned Necrologia. I'm hoping that there'll be a magical Christmas-land game where I cast Necrologia, dump a bunch of artifacts into the yard, then Open the Vaults/Roar of Reclamation the next turn.
As far as tutors go I'm running Artificer's Intuition, Kuldotha Forgemaster, Demonic Tutor, vampiric Tutor, Entomb, Intuition, Transmute Artifact and Enlightened Tutor. I also threw Lim-Dul's Vault back in after noticing I wasn't getting enough usage out of Bojuka Bog. Now I'm at 35 lands, which should be fine, hopefully. I noticed that you've decided not to run Enlightened Tutor - can you explain the choice not to include it? Right now, it's one of my flex slots that could potentially be replaced in future.
Serrasin put it best: it doesn't tutor for everything, and especially with running a Bazaar in the deck, there is a need to minimize card disadvantage spells. The weakest tutor in the list is actually Entomb at this moment, which I think speaks to how efficient the tutors are.
I agree. I don't run answers, just more threats, but I understand why you feel this way. For me, the safest zone for Soul of Phyrexia would be in the library, where it could be Pulled via Transmute Artifact, entomb, or Forgemaster for that one key activation, if necessary, with mimimal exposure. I wouldn't run it, but I could understand where people with far different lists would.
It most often would rebuy broken mana rocks, which is good, but not amazing. Salvaging station did this much better, by using better mana rocks.
This is a great question.
Thopter combo is the reason this deck can eat Eldrazi attacks and shrug the damage and triggers off like they're nothing. It alongside bazaar and Ensnaring bridge has locked down whole tables while opponents eat exponentially growing damage every turn through flying damage, and is one if the greatest defensive tools the deck has to offer. If Thopter became banned, it would open up 2 slots for the deck. The deck would lose:
1) another route to infinite turns via Time Sieve. This would best be replaced by Thopter assembly and Myr Battlesphere. I the latter but both the former.
2) an efficient attack plan. Thopter beats closes games period, and I'd be looking for the next best attack plan for beating down and gaining life. The Airforce plan does this already, but Thopter beats supported the plan.
3) blunting Prison strategies (this includes Eldrazi triggers) This would place more reliance on Battlesphere and other less efficient token generators and more reliance on blink effects, which if included, changes deck composition drastically.
4) Would need another sacrifice outlet: whether saving our stuff from swords or act of authority, or setting up a broken roar of reclamation, we would need another cheap sac outlet to do our dirty work, and artifact sac outlets that don't fold to a Mindslaver are very hard to come by.
The two slots gained could not cover all of these holes at the same time, and not nearly as efficiently. Decks would be pushed more towards the edges and away from the middle. Some would go the combo routs and forms to junk-like disruption and some efficient beats. Others would go the beatdown route and fold to more efficient combo.
I would probably add Mycosynth Lattice as a means to stop The omnipresent vandalblasts and ramp in my metas by cutting off my opponent't mana with Karn with one slot. The other slot would have to be tested, but I would consider animate dead effects. I wouldn't snap-include disk/forge because opponents are too smart to not bounce forge in repomse to the disk trigger, and because forge is an otherwise dead card. And no, I wouldn't pay 7 mana for soul of ohyrexia to do a forge impression with disk out.
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I wasn't really looking at Forge/Soul both because of the reason you mentioned, but also because its fairly common for my group to just keep clearing the table to the point that there is little worth protecting like that anyways. I don't know what other tables look at, but I can set my watch by the next impending Austere Command. Sure, those 'Mousetrap' style combos are fun, but getting it done usually means tighter and tighter interactions. One of the cards which I was looking at was Beacon of Unrest since it can bring a combo piece or creature into play; but you're not just limited to your own 'yard.
It's as you say though, you cant just replace the cards and patch the deck together. You really need to tear it down and re-evaluate all of the interactions and possible plans. The sad reality is that I am not sure there is another artifact that could be a cornerstone like Thopter Foundry to shift to. I think the best that you could hope for would be to replace those cards with enablers and lean more on the other key interactions that you already had. In someways that's a little disappointing.
I was laughing my ass off at this. It's so damn true. Facing that sweeper 4-6 times a game is the reason I moved towards salvaging station as my go-to engine enabler.
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During the time I've been away, my list has radically changed as well. Thanks to a very good friend of mine on twitter, @TheProxyGuy, I recently obtained Foil, Full-art copies of Workshop and Time Twister. That aside, I've also shifted a lot of the mana rocks I was using, utilizing "mana eggs" due to their cantriping ability. Also, Jostin123, you'll be happy to hear I'm running Karn, Silver Golem. You were absolutely right on the mark about it, and this deck/thread/primer owes a great deal to you.
The new lest is performing quite well.
I'm going to be writing a new comprehensive walk-through with the list, along with a video for CMDR decks. You guys will finally get to see my ugly mug!
I'll change the OP and post the video when it's done. For all practical purposes, unless something earth shattering gets released or we get a new artifact set, I'm considering my build of Sharuum "complete" for now.
Thanks, Heroes of The Planes! You guys are great!
Actual Truth:
I don't seem to remember Necrologia in your last posted list, do you have a newer list you could post? I tried the list you posted months ago, but it was too slow to be competitive in my meta, if you have a new faster decklist I would love to see it.
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Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
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Ah ok, I see, the salvaging station build was much too slow for my meta, I needed something that could jump out in front of a Prossh/Mayael/Kaalia 3 on 1 grand slam. So far only Wanderer has been vicious enough to stop them from trying to gang up on me. This is at an 8 player table so it may not be a great place for a Sharuum list.
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Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I believe bitteroot runs Necrologia in his list, which I think is more of a fast combo deck. It's a vastly different build, but might be worth a look
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