Armillary Sphere could work well too. I run it in my black and red mono-builds and even some two colour non-green builds.
I sort of thought about Knollspine Dragon for this deck. Coming in after a "Marton-assault" (you should rename the deck to this :)) can net you tremendous CA if you haven't already won.
Dragon Mage could also work here. In my experience, he's been better than expected.
I'm kind of grabbing at straws here, but extra CA is always nice in decks without U.
The big problem I have had is that this deck doesnt really output much damage outside of the turns it tries to go off in which turns I tend to already tap out a lot of mana to have some sort of hasted army. Knollspine Dragon just never seemed to work out because I had never really done much damage except for the turns where I was killing people. It is cute but it didnt pan out well when I tried him out initially.
Dragon Mage could be fun... I do have a lot of haste outlets so I could potentially see him working out but I do have some issues with the fact that he is sort of a slow crawl to reset hands otherwise. I like Wheel of Fortune and Chandra Ablaze a bit more I think but he could be a possible consideration in the future.
Armillary Sphere is a good idea though... Perhaps I should consider it and the bauble and leave the land count as is...
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Dragon Mage could be fun... I do have a lot of haste outlets so I could potentially see him working out but I do have some issues with the fact that he is sort of a slow crawl to reset hands otherwise. I like Wheel of Fortune and Chandra Ablaze a bit more I think but he could be a possible consideration in the future.
Armillary Sphere is a good idea though... Perhaps I should consider it and the bauble and leave the land count as is...
The Mage looks like it can actually do really good things for you. Haste makes him incredible.
I'm thinking it would be smart to leave the lands alone for now and add those two ramptifacts in. Great Welder targets too.
Teferi's Puzzle Box is another fun card I tend to use in red decks. It almost negates our lower CA options due to it being so heavily disruptive to other players, combo or otherwise.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
You have quite a few lands as is, I get that the Armillary Sphere could work in filtering, but perhaps you really want some more random card draw like Goblin Lore. Thawing Glaciers while slow may also be idea.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Sword of Fire and Ice I know really... I am questioning swords in an essentially agro deck... Sadly though I dont have a lot of fire and forget creatures. A lot of my creatures are about token spawning and I just honestly havent been too impressed by the swords in here. If I am spending time and mana equipping tokens with swords I just feel like I am slowing myself down. I havent been that pleased in this deck drawing the swords and I have spent a lot of time with swords in hand or in play not doing anything... I am considering cutting them for something else. They just havent been as effective in this deck as I had hoped.
Sundering Titan Yes he is generally speaking just amazing however he doesnt really contribute anything to my primary goal in this deck and he is at the top of my creature curve... I do have to look at him realistically. Yes Kiki-Jiki would love to abuse him but Kiki+ like anything is amazing. He is expensive and I dont feel he is completely needed within the list.
Goblin Marshal Like I said before he is just so damn slow... He is expensive to cast and doesnt spawn that many guys considering he has an echo cost which usually makes him die next turn... I havent really been pleased with him at all.
Rakka Mar spawns one token per turn. I got her out one game last night and she spawned a token.. then she died to an activation from a Warsong Surge... She is not very impressive and I get the feeling that a token per turn on legs isnt going to be that impressive in the long run.
Rally the Horde The card is already on its way out. But I figured I would put it here so I knew I had a card opening. It has too much varience and is just too damn random. If it was a bit more consistant in the like 4-8 token spawning range then it would be a different story but it feels like it is going to be more in the 2-4 token range on average.
Mogg Infestation I drew it last night and it ended up sitting in my hand the whole time. I am not saying I am cutting it as of now or anything but it will be watched. Unless I find it really useful more often it might get cut but it sat in my hand all game without being used.
Ghitu Encampment I just dont see myself using this much as an attacker. I think I will go to the Glaciers instead as I feel it is a good substitute.
POTENTIAL ADDS:
Teferi's Puzzle Box I do actually sort of like this for some randomness. It forces people to use it or loose it. Some people feel like they have to use up all of their effects so it is funny watching people ditch cards so they dont loose it lol.
Dragon Mage I look at this guy and I think to myself he would be a similar mana spot as Sundering Titan but he would give me some fuel towards my plan of swarming. The downside is he has a on hit ability rather than an ETB ability. There is a chance for backfire here but with the haste outlets it could be good.
Armillary Sphere Smooth out some of the land issues I have been having. I like how it gives me lands to keep dropping as I have had some issues with how many land I have in play on occasion and I could see in the future as I encounter more Austere Command and friends.
Wayfarer's Bauble Another ramp effect but it ramps me a land which I like. Less for an artifact sweeper to pick up off of me later on.
Thawing Glaciers I like how this gives us somethign to do with excess mana. I tend to have a few left over mana a lot of times and have a hard time consistantly dropping my lands.
Mimic Vat We can reuse our token spawning creatures or steal someone else's good creatures. It feels like it would be a good add to the list.
By no means are all of these going in or out but that is sort of where I am sitting currently on things I was thinking about.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Rakka Mar seemed to work out for me, she developed board presence and while not explosive, did build over time without being overly threatening. A small bonus is people often think her tokens die at end of turn, when they don't.
I never ran Sundering Titan, but he seems out of place a big beater to try abuse KJ as you said, that really is not on curve and will rarely win you the game out of nowhere.
I can't judge on infestation, but it may need more time, or it may just be a cute trick in the end.
The Ghitu Encampment isn't terrible, I havent had the need to use it yet, but Mutavault is an option too if cost is too much (and ETBT), I don't dislike it enough to remove it though.
I would keep at least one sword, I'm finding SoFaF doing alright, although havent seen other two yet.
Mimic Vat is amazing and has performed well so far for me (out of two games, haha). I don't see Puzzle Box as being overly pro-active, so I would stray away from it, the other changes could be sound options though.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Ok I dont think I will go completely crazy on this add so I will only do a few changes:
Sword of Light and Shadow -> Mimic Vat Between rez and draw I think I need the draw cards more out of the two. Mimic Vat sort of functions similarly as the sword as well so I felt it was a valid change. The only really functionality I see missing from this change is spot removal protection for Marton however I have that in several other places as well and they could always respond to the equip cost. I also had some issues on a few occasions where I had a sword + Meekstone in play at the same time and they dont function so well together.
Sundering Titan -> Dragon Mage this is substituting a LD package for a card draw package which seems like a fair trade off considering that I just didnt see Sundering Titan making or breaking the game for me in this list without kiki.
Goblin Marshal -> Wayfarer's Bauble this gives me more ramp which I like. I figured I had been complaining about this guy enough that it was time to cut him.
Rally the Horde -> Reiterate I like the idea of hijacking someone else's ramp spell. I sort of wonder if Reiterate is the right way to go here or if I should just go with a Reverberate due to the lower mana.... I have been burned in the past due to opponents ramping at 3 mana when they went a turn before me so it sort of makes me wonder about Reverberate instead.... I will think on this a bit more. Sure it is great if you get to flash Reiterate back or if you go infinite with it + Mana Geyser but the chances of that going off seem slim... I sort of like the 2 mana idea a lot more.
Ghitu Encampment -> Thawing Glaciers (I turned this into a Tectonic Edge instead.) your idea of swapping this to a Mutavault is a good idea sadly the reason I am cutting this is mainly due to the fact that I don't foresee using a manland with Marton to much of any effect. Generally when I start swinging away with Marton it is with a big mana spell that I cant afford to save 2-3 mana to ahve a manland swing in as well. I do have a Mutavault though that I haven't ever used anywhere so it is an option but I think it is a bit overrated for EDH use personally. Still I will consider it.
I'm interested in how the Thawing Glaciers and Dragon Mage work out. Both are definitely worthwhile, although both are potentially slow, the Glaciers has a bonus in its inevitability at least and use with other's Urborgs, so maybe it won't be that slow.
I know people can ramp really early, but sometimes you want versatility of reuse. I always go for that especially in a deck lacking inherent card advantage.
The Bauble could be pretty good, I'll keep an eye out on it myself. Good changes overall.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
I'm interested in how the Thawing Glaciers and Dragon Mage work out. Both are definitely worthwhile, although both are potentially slow, the Glaciers has a bonus in its inevitability at least and use with other's Urborgs, so maybe it won't be that slow.
I know people can ramp really early, but sometimes you want versatility of reuse. I always go for that especially in a deck lacking inherent card advantage.
The Bauble could be pretty good, I'll keep an eye out on it myself. Good changes overall.
I hadnt really noticed that Thawing Glaciers cannot tap for mana either.... hummm I might pass on it for now. I think that might slow me down in my opening a bit too much potentially. I think I will toss in a Tectonic Edge instead...
I guess I can test out Reiterate for now and I will let you know if I have issues with it.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
So... The deck is doing fantastic so far. I did some more testing and most of the same cards are giving me issues. I haven't been bummed to see a single ramp card thus far in my list. This deck is all about the bit mana and it has payed off so far.
Mimic Vat has been a fantastic add to the list. I managed to drop a Solemn Simulacrum onto it which I abused for like 3 turns then I moved it to a Siege-Gang Commander and it was just pure profit. I enjoyed it a lot. I ended up winning off of token spawning through the Mimic Vat.
I had a game where Mana Gyser generated like 25 mana for me last night it was great. I generated like 38 mana total that game and did like a 10 mana token spawn + cast Marton Stromgald + Insurection and was about to stomp the table when the 5c sliver deck tapped down its only mana up for a swords.... I was pissed off but I went all in and killed him that turn with like just shy of 40 damage to him. From there I got wracked by an Austere Command which I knew had to happen sometime. I managed to crawl back into the game with Rapacious One behind a Darksteel Plate + Fervor and the ability to cast Marton next turn everyone scooped on me.
I have been toying with the idea of cutting a few cards for a few solutions. I wouldn't mind a few artifact shatter effects and a few answers for the emergencies but all in all this deck has been doing amazingly with a sick success % somewhere around 60-75% for mono R that is fairly damn impressive. It might just be the whole new deck that everyone underestimates or something but the deck has amazing turns where it comes from nowhere and kills lots of people.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Are you needing graveyard hate or is it working out? I've been having mostly success too, although people realise who to target after a while.
I haven't had too much issue with graveyard hate mainly due to the fact that I usually try to kill everyone fairly quickly in comparison to when graveyard abuse really starts to pick up in a game to the point where it could be a problem. Graveyard abuse is really an issue when a game is allowed to draw out longer and the grave abuse is allowed to continue for a longer period. I actually sort of like allowing someone to abuse a bit here as it sort of shifts a bit of the hate away from me here. I would rather have an answer in this deck for a real problem card like ohhh say Ghostly Prison or heaven forbid if someone dropped an AEther Flash on us...
I have sort of considered a few answers for problems that this deck has been having more of late but I guess I need to figure out which ones exactly I want and what to pull for it.
I had sort of considered adding Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre or Spine of Ish Sah to the deck to deal with some of these things but I think Chaos Warp is the first thing I will add to the deck. I like how Ulamog can be another good plan B if I have to. Plus I don't care much of at all what is in my graveyard in this deck so the whole shuffling things away isnt much of a care for this deck.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Sorry to update again but I have a few more changes...
I am cleaning up the OP slowly but surely... Eventually I am considering making this a primer but that is still quite a ways off as I think I have a lot of playtesting / tweeking that needs to be done for this list before I get to anything too serious. I have been adding info as I go though and did a lot of work earlier today to update it closer to where I want it to be... That said I think I still need a few other sections such as optional packages such as a LD / nonbasic land hate package and what not... lots to do anyways.
I have also been sort of mulling over if I want Dragon Mage or Kozilek, Butcher of Truth in the list... To be honest I almost always make it up to the mana to drop the eldrazi as this deck has a lot of X mana spells so the upside here is I get 4 cards + a threat out of this. I feel the Dragon Mage is a lot more of a coin flip as to if anything card drawing wise will come from him plus he helps opponents. I love the idea of Kozi hitting someone with haste lol. I had mulled over Ulamog a bit earlier but honestly I think I will pass on him but Kozilek is honestly sort of intriguing... I will think it over a bit more and possibly do some testing with him on tuesday night...
DECK CHANGE
CUTS:
Mogg Infestation I have had problems really making this more than a really odd wrath effect... I cant really find a great way to use this on myself as usually it sort of sucks on myself for some reason or another... I decided that All is Dust might be a better solution card for the deck. Sure it hits my stuff but not my artifacts and it clears out enchantments. Plus we have several artifact creatures that this does not hit.
Reiterate I have always had a hard time sitting on copy spells in EDH. I like them a lot more when playing a control deck especially in a draw / go list. However I just see it being an issue thinking I will sit on 6 open mana every turn for this damn thing.
Myr Incubator a cool wincon but omg it is so slow. Plus it is a one time shot effect so ehhh. At 12 mana to drop and use it seems a bit odd... I have been displeased to have it before so I think I will go without it for a bit... If for some reason I think it needs to come back it always can... For now though I think I will take it out for some removal.(I decided against cutting it)
Rakka Mar ahhhh she just spanws so slowly. It is really hard to make her tokens add up fast enough to do much. I want more explosive token spawning instead of just one per turn. It is hard to surprise someone when they see the one token a turn coming far ahead of time.
ADDS:
Chaos Warp it answers anything that needs to go. Enchantments can be an issue for red so I like how this solves any problem for my token swarms.
All Is Dust I am heavy artifact based so while I am a bit reluctant to include a sweeper I like that it can hit enchantments but duck some of my artifact creatures as well as my mana stones and what not.
Steel Hellkite Normally I am a bit reluctant to run this guy however the inclusion of all the haste outlets really makes him shine for this deck. I look forward to testing him out.
The last add is sort of up in the air yet... I was considering Shattering Pulse, Skred, Aftershock, and Shattering Spree... so its not like I have that one really nailed out yet... However I was sort of thinking perhaps Aftershock just due to its versatility however I like the larger effect / repeatability of some of the others. Skred is nice for the whole one mana answer but honestly I think the noncreatures give me a lot more trouble than the creatures when playing this list.
Good to see you added Chaos Warp, I've had it for a little while. I'm unsure on Steel Hellkite, as turned against this deck it would be downright backbreaking, but it is an answer to enchantments.
All is Dust is clever and could work too. Mogg Infestation looked good on paper, but maybe not in reality.
I was thinking Skittering Invasion might be idea for token generator that doesn't arouse too much fear since they are powerless. There is also Elemental Mastery still, which might be worth addressing.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Good to see you added Chaos Warp, I've had it for a little while. I'm unsure on Steel Hellkite, as turned against this deck it would be downright backbreaking, but it is an answer to enchantments.
All is Dust is clever and could work too. Mogg Infestation looked good on paper, but maybe not in reality.
I was thinking Skittering Invasion might be idea for token generator that doesn't arouse too much fear since they are powerless. There is also Elemental Mastery still, which might be worth addressing.
I will agree that Chaos Warp seems like it is the best answer as it gets rid of any problematic issue as well as tucking commanders. Red really doesnt have many ways in which to answer enchantments and planeswalkers outright so I am happy to have it. I knew I would likely include a few answers eventually but I wanted to wait and see what was under performing first.
All is Dust I go back and forth if I want a sweeper in here or not. When it comes down to it though I do like the idea of it. We have some artifact tokens and artifact creatures that would live through it plus it screws with the enchantments but not our mana stones. In the end due to all those I think I like it a lot more than Oblivion Stone / Nevinyrral's Disk in this type of deck. I still cant say how exactly it will work out but the infestation just never seemed to work as well as I wanted it to. It sat in my hand a lot and didn't get cast all that much.
Steel Helkite - Honestly yes he can totally screw with this deck if someone were to steal / rez him back and use him against us. However even with that said to be honest everyone sort of fears Steel Helkite hitting their board. He is troublesome for everyone and we have the advantage of having haste a lot more often than other players do. Plus its not like using Bribery on the mono R player really happens like ever. Even if they do use the Helkite on us most of our artifacts and creatures are staggered at different levels. The only thing they can nicely do is take out our tokens and a lot of our token production is explosive so we will go from very few tokens to tons and tons of tokens who attack the same turn.
In the end I think that the Helkite is at least worth testing. He seems like a great answer + threat for this deck and if someone uses premium spot removal on him that is one less for Marton.
Skittering Invasion I have actually considered this one once or twice as well. The downside is that it is sort of spendy to drop but it doesnt scale at all and it is like impossible for us to abuse. I like the big fatty token spawners as Kiki-Jiki, Mimic Vat, and Nim Deathmantle can all sort of abuse them. Plus you have to consider the fact that with the invasion we dont have any power behind them. They are not red so dont get our buffs off of Gauntlet of Power and Caged Sun. They dont play into our plan B of attacking all that well either whereas a Myr Battlesphere can do just fine at attacking on its own.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I got 2 more games in last night, we did this really odd draft planechase varient that I think someone just pulled out of their ass and so while being like the only one against the dumb idea we did it. It was odd and we drafted random options of planechase cards and when you would planechase you would take one randomly from your own pile and place it in play.
Game 1: This game was going alright I had like 5 mana stones in play right away so I dumped Kozilek, Butcher of Truth into play who I substituted in for the dragon last night because I knew where kozy was but not the dragon. Kozilek died immediately to an edict which was sad as I didn't think I would need a creature token to back him in the situation. The game sort of slowly churned and I dumped 9 snakes in off my snake basket as I had just dumb mana. I held back from using my Wheel of Fortune due to Chancellor of the Forge being in my hand at that point... I think I should have just done it but oh well. I dropped the chancellor in to spawn a ton of guys and just drop marton in for kicks to see if he will last.
Game 2: This was such a slow start it totally sucked. I dropped my Thran Dynamo and it got blown up right away I was stuck at like 4-5 land and no stones in play. Luckily I had my Emrakul's Hatcher + Nim Deathmantle in play. I dropped a Solemn Simulacrum into play and started abusing him with the deathmantle to ramp like 4-5 lands and mana overall when it was all done and said. I couldn't draw a damn bit of card draw or token production for the longest time which sucked a lot. My Anger got locked down behind a Journey to Nowhere. Luckily I forced a player to pop his Oblivion Stone just by poking him several turns in a row. He released my Anger and split a Wurmcoil Engine for me. From here I had like 5 guys in play and dropped Mogg Infestation as it was all I had on myself to spawn 10 tokens and drop Marton in to kill everyone. It was sort of a lucky one and I was surprised that the infestation came through for me right before I consider cutting it.
Even then the mogg infestation was only good due to having a few crummy creatures in play and no spawners + needing to kill off anger. I felt like it was a very random situation for the deck as usually I have some spawning options available and just didn't this time. I got lucky too as the same guy who dropped Insurrection on me last game flashed it for me to see when I killed everyone so if I had lacked a haste outlet again it would have finished the same lame way...
The games went alrigth overall... I wish I could get just like 1-2 more card draw outlets in here if possible but I dont really like my other options. I might continue trying Kozilek for a bit to see how he plays out. This time I loved the drawing 4 cards but the edict was sort of lame. I will keep trying and see how he does for the deck.
I sort of agree that Kozilek might actually be good for this deck. He makes for an expensive draw spell, but he is a wincon all on his own.
By the way, which dragon did you substitute him for? The Hoarder or the Mage? I'm going to assume the Mage because you've just gotten to adding him to the list. I say add the Mage in addition to Kozi.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
I might end up trying both for a bit. I am finding that Inferno Titan isnt that impressive currently. Steel Helkite seems to be better in most cases for me and as far as a plan B I would rather Kozilek than the titan.
I will try that out for a bit and see how it goes.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
I still want to cut it because I really only see it being a good call if for some reason we cannot get any token spawning going... even then if that is the case it is hard to get to the point where we have enough creatures to kick this off profitably... Sitting at 5 creatures in play with no token spawners available is a very odd situation for this deck and so far has only occurred to me the one time... Outside of that I generally don't want to wrath only one player's creatures and give him a ton of chump blockers to jump in my way with...
Personally I am still sort of on the idea of cutting it. It just feels like there are too few situations that call for it. It is a card that sits arround in my hand a lot usually when drawn being sort of difficult to use.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I think I'll give Mogg Infestation a miss then, although I'll still acquire one, I've yet to cast it myself. It only is profitable if your boardstate is somewhat developed, so almost win more.
Your experiences make it seem like we need to be very careful when casting Marton, lest it help others win. In a similar situation Goblin Bombardment helped, but that is one of few sac engines in deck, which might need to be changed.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
I think I'll give Mogg Infestation a miss then, although I'll still acquire one, I've yet to cast it myself. It only is profitable if your boardstate is somewhat developed, so almost win more.
Your experiences make it seem like we need to be very careful when casting Marton, lest it help others win. In a similar situation Goblin Bombardment helped, but that is one of few sac engines in deck, which might need to be changed.
Yes Insurection is an issue if there is another red player on board. However it is a bit odd that he would have drawn his both games. Still I try to only play Marton when I can also swing with haste or I have nothing else to do. It will continue to be a problem if people have Insurection but we could combat it with sac outlets or Homeward Path as well.
Also I forgot to take Ghitu Encampment out of my list and it has been a total pain in my ass getting around the CIP tapped every single time. I definitely need to take it out. I have not once animated the damn thing but it keeps pissing me off because I keep drawing the damn thing...
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
In line with your comments regarding Inferno Titan, Elemental Mastery (as DramaTurtle said too) would be a pretty good include given the average high power of your creatures. In addition you also sac them to Bombardment for profit later on.
I've never really asked before, but does the Meekstone and similar artifacts work well? I can understand it an attractive idea and deterrent.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
In line with your comments regarding Inferno Titan, Elemental Mastery (as DramaTurtle said too) would be a pretty good include given the average high power of your creatures. In addition you also sac them to Bombardment for profit later on.
I've never really asked before, but does the Meekstone and similar artifacts work well? I can understand it an attractive idea and deterrent.
Meekstone and Ensnaring Bridge have done fantastic thigns for me in this deck. It makes it so I dont have to try to answer everythign my opponets play and it makes them consider saving creatures for defense rather than getting them stuck tapped down.
Ohhhh man do voltron commanders hate the hell out of the both of them. Both of them are amazing outlets vs that type of gameplan and they do so little to us. We do have a few things they do effect but overall they have been a very positive add to my list.
EDIT: again... I will consider Elemental Mastery and I might end up proxying it up and just randomly swapping it in on occasion to see how it pans out. I am not overly in love with the card due to its potential card advantage loss but it could also be fairly devistating.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Hey I was sort of looking at my land base and I think I might be tempted to try out a few other lands:
Homeward Path I have stated before an opposing Insurrection is an issue. I just added the eldrazi to the list as well so this gives some good anti theft backup. I personally think I like this more than Mistifying Maze at the least.
High Market another counter theft option. I also like how it can get rid of the Hoarding Dragon if I want to or just stop people from stealing my guys.
Eye of Ugin I am actually surprised I didnt think about this before... This gives us so much tutoring power in the deck though in the form of a land... I wouldnt swap it in for another land as much as find another thing I could possibly remove for it. I like how it is tutoring power in a land though... The downside obviously we cant tap it for mana but how many colorless creatures do we have in the list??? I dont know for sure but I thought it was probably worth looking at as an option.
Also... I havent been that impressed by Mistifying Maze in this list so far so I guess I could consider cutting it for one of the above mentioned lands possibly... I dont want to dip too far into our red sources but considering we are a mono colored deck we might be able to swing just adding a few more utility lands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
The big problem I have had is that this deck doesnt really output much damage outside of the turns it tries to go off in which turns I tend to already tap out a lot of mana to have some sort of hasted army. Knollspine Dragon just never seemed to work out because I had never really done much damage except for the turns where I was killing people. It is cute but it didnt pan out well when I tried him out initially.
Dragon Mage could be fun... I do have a lot of haste outlets so I could potentially see him working out but I do have some issues with the fact that he is sort of a slow crawl to reset hands otherwise. I like Wheel of Fortune and Chandra Ablaze a bit more I think but he could be a possible consideration in the future.
Armillary Sphere is a good idea though... Perhaps I should consider it and the bauble and leave the land count as is...
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[Modern] Allies
The Mage looks like it can actually do really good things for you. Haste makes him incredible.
I'm thinking it would be smart to leave the lands alone for now and add those two ramptifacts in. Great Welder targets too.
Teferi's Puzzle Box is another fun card I tend to use in red decks. It almost negates our lower CA options due to it being so heavily disruptive to other players, combo or otherwise.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
QUESTIONABLE CARD LIST:
Sword of Fire and Ice I know really... I am questioning swords in an essentially agro deck... Sadly though I dont have a lot of fire and forget creatures. A lot of my creatures are about token spawning and I just honestly havent been too impressed by the swords in here. If I am spending time and mana equipping tokens with swords I just feel like I am slowing myself down. I havent been that pleased in this deck drawing the swords and I have spent a lot of time with swords in hand or in play not doing anything... I am considering cutting them for something else. They just havent been as effective in this deck as I had hoped.
Sword of Light and Shadow same as above.
Sundering Titan Yes he is generally speaking just amazing however he doesnt really contribute anything to my primary goal in this deck and he is at the top of my creature curve... I do have to look at him realistically. Yes Kiki-Jiki would love to abuse him but Kiki+ like anything is amazing. He is expensive and I dont feel he is completely needed within the list.
Goblin Marshal Like I said before he is just so damn slow... He is expensive to cast and doesnt spawn that many guys considering he has an echo cost which usually makes him die next turn... I havent really been pleased with him at all.
Rakka Mar spawns one token per turn. I got her out one game last night and she spawned a token.. then she died to an activation from a Warsong Surge... She is not very impressive and I get the feeling that a token per turn on legs isnt going to be that impressive in the long run.
Rally the Horde The card is already on its way out. But I figured I would put it here so I knew I had a card opening. It has too much varience and is just too damn random. If it was a bit more consistant in the like 4-8 token spawning range then it would be a different story but it feels like it is going to be more in the 2-4 token range on average.
Mogg Infestation I drew it last night and it ended up sitting in my hand the whole time. I am not saying I am cutting it as of now or anything but it will be watched. Unless I find it really useful more often it might get cut but it sat in my hand all game without being used.
Ghitu Encampment I just dont see myself using this much as an attacker. I think I will go to the Glaciers instead as I feel it is a good substitute.
POTENTIAL ADDS:
Teferi's Puzzle Box I do actually sort of like this for some randomness. It forces people to use it or loose it. Some people feel like they have to use up all of their effects so it is funny watching people ditch cards so they dont loose it lol.
Dragon Mage I look at this guy and I think to myself he would be a similar mana spot as Sundering Titan but he would give me some fuel towards my plan of swarming. The downside is he has a on hit ability rather than an ETB ability. There is a chance for backfire here but with the haste outlets it could be good.
Armillary Sphere Smooth out some of the land issues I have been having. I like how it gives me lands to keep dropping as I have had some issues with how many land I have in play on occasion and I could see in the future as I encounter more Austere Command and friends.
Wayfarer's Bauble Another ramp effect but it ramps me a land which I like. Less for an artifact sweeper to pick up off of me later on.
Thawing Glaciers I like how this gives us somethign to do with excess mana. I tend to have a few left over mana a lot of times and have a hard time consistantly dropping my lands.
Mimic Vat We can reuse our token spawning creatures or steal someone else's good creatures. It feels like it would be a good add to the list.
By no means are all of these going in or out but that is sort of where I am sitting currently on things I was thinking about.
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[Modern] Allies
Rakka Mar seemed to work out for me, she developed board presence and while not explosive, did build over time without being overly threatening. A small bonus is people often think her tokens die at end of turn, when they don't.
I agree Rally the Horde has no place in the deck.
I never ran Sundering Titan, but he seems out of place a big beater to try abuse KJ as you said, that really is not on curve and will rarely win you the game out of nowhere.
I can't judge on infestation, but it may need more time, or it may just be a cute trick in the end.
The Ghitu Encampment isn't terrible, I havent had the need to use it yet, but Mutavault is an option too if cost is too much (and ETBT), I don't dislike it enough to remove it though.
You may wish to try the smaller Mogg War Marshal over Goblin Marshal, it's great early game and interacts favourably with clamp and Goblin Bombardment. I havent been disappointed yet.
I would keep at least one sword, I'm finding SoFaF doing alright, although havent seen other two yet.
Mimic Vat is amazing and has performed well so far for me (out of two games, haha). I don't see Puzzle Box as being overly pro-active, so I would stray away from it, the other changes could be sound options though.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
Ok I dont think I will go completely crazy on this add so I will only do a few changes:
Sword of Light and Shadow -> Mimic Vat Between rez and draw I think I need the draw cards more out of the two. Mimic Vat sort of functions similarly as the sword as well so I felt it was a valid change. The only really functionality I see missing from this change is spot removal protection for Marton however I have that in several other places as well and they could always respond to the equip cost. I also had some issues on a few occasions where I had a sword + Meekstone in play at the same time and they dont function so well together.
Sundering Titan -> Dragon Mage this is substituting a LD package for a card draw package which seems like a fair trade off considering that I just didnt see Sundering Titan making or breaking the game for me in this list without kiki.
Goblin Marshal -> Wayfarer's Bauble this gives me more ramp which I like. I figured I had been complaining about this guy enough that it was time to cut him.
Rally the Horde -> Reiterate I like the idea of hijacking someone else's ramp spell. I sort of wonder if Reiterate is the right way to go here or if I should just go with a Reverberate due to the lower mana.... I have been burned in the past due to opponents ramping at 3 mana when they went a turn before me so it sort of makes me wonder about Reverberate instead.... I will think on this a bit more. Sure it is great if you get to flash Reiterate back or if you go infinite with it + Mana Geyser but the chances of that going off seem slim... I sort of like the 2 mana idea a lot more.
Ghitu Encampment ->
Thawing Glaciers(I turned this into a Tectonic Edge instead.)your idea of swapping this to a Mutavault is a good idea sadly the reason I am cutting this is mainly due to the fact that I don't foresee using a manland with Marton to much of any effect. Generally when I start swinging away with Marton it is with a big mana spell that I cant afford to save 2-3 mana to ahve a manland swing in as well. I do have a Mutavault though that I haven't ever used anywhere so it is an option but I think it is a bit overrated for EDH use personally. Still I will consider it.Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I know people can ramp really early, but sometimes you want versatility of reuse. I always go for that especially in a deck lacking inherent card advantage.
The Bauble could be pretty good, I'll keep an eye out on it myself. Good changes overall.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
I hadnt really noticed that Thawing Glaciers cannot tap for mana either.... hummm I might pass on it for now. I think that might slow me down in my opening a bit too much potentially. I think I will toss in a Tectonic Edge instead...
I guess I can test out Reiterate for now and I will let you know if I have issues with it.
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[Modern] Allies
Mimic Vat has been a fantastic add to the list. I managed to drop a Solemn Simulacrum onto it which I abused for like 3 turns then I moved it to a Siege-Gang Commander and it was just pure profit. I enjoyed it a lot. I ended up winning off of token spawning through the Mimic Vat.
I had a game where Mana Gyser generated like 25 mana for me last night it was great. I generated like 38 mana total that game and did like a 10 mana token spawn + cast Marton Stromgald + Insurection and was about to stomp the table when the 5c sliver deck tapped down its only mana up for a swords.... I was pissed off but I went all in and killed him that turn with like just shy of 40 damage to him. From there I got wracked by an Austere Command which I knew had to happen sometime. I managed to crawl back into the game with Rapacious One behind a Darksteel Plate + Fervor and the ability to cast Marton next turn everyone scooped on me.
I have been toying with the idea of cutting a few cards for a few solutions. I wouldn't mind a few artifact shatter effects and a few answers for the emergencies but all in all this deck has been doing amazingly with a sick success % somewhere around 60-75% for mono R that is fairly damn impressive. It might just be the whole new deck that everyone underestimates or something but the deck has amazing turns where it comes from nowhere and kills lots of people.
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[Modern] Allies
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
I haven't had too much issue with graveyard hate mainly due to the fact that I usually try to kill everyone fairly quickly in comparison to when graveyard abuse really starts to pick up in a game to the point where it could be a problem. Graveyard abuse is really an issue when a game is allowed to draw out longer and the grave abuse is allowed to continue for a longer period. I actually sort of like allowing someone to abuse a bit here as it sort of shifts a bit of the hate away from me here. I would rather have an answer in this deck for a real problem card like ohhh say Ghostly Prison or heaven forbid if someone dropped an AEther Flash on us...
I have sort of considered a few answers for problems that this deck has been having more of late but I guess I need to figure out which ones exactly I want and what to pull for it.
I had sort of considered adding Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre or Spine of Ish Sah to the deck to deal with some of these things but I think Chaos Warp is the first thing I will add to the deck. I like how Ulamog can be another good plan B if I have to. Plus I don't care much of at all what is in my graveyard in this deck so the whole shuffling things away isnt much of a care for this deck.
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[Modern] Allies
I am cleaning up the OP slowly but surely... Eventually I am considering making this a primer but that is still quite a ways off as I think I have a lot of playtesting / tweeking that needs to be done for this list before I get to anything too serious. I have been adding info as I go though and did a lot of work earlier today to update it closer to where I want it to be... That said I think I still need a few other sections such as optional packages such as a LD / nonbasic land hate package and what not... lots to do anyways.
I have also been sort of mulling over if I want Dragon Mage or Kozilek, Butcher of Truth in the list... To be honest I almost always make it up to the mana to drop the eldrazi as this deck has a lot of X mana spells so the upside here is I get 4 cards + a threat out of this. I feel the Dragon Mage is a lot more of a coin flip as to if anything card drawing wise will come from him plus he helps opponents. I love the idea of Kozi hitting someone with haste lol. I had mulled over Ulamog a bit earlier but honestly I think I will pass on him but Kozilek is honestly sort of intriguing... I will think it over a bit more and possibly do some testing with him on tuesday night...
DECK CHANGE
CUTS:
Mogg Infestation I have had problems really making this more than a really odd wrath effect... I cant really find a great way to use this on myself as usually it sort of sucks on myself for some reason or another... I decided that All is Dust might be a better solution card for the deck. Sure it hits my stuff but not my artifacts and it clears out enchantments. Plus we have several artifact creatures that this does not hit.
Reiterate I have always had a hard time sitting on copy spells in EDH. I like them a lot more when playing a control deck especially in a draw / go list. However I just see it being an issue thinking I will sit on 6 open mana every turn for this damn thing.
Myr Incubator a cool wincon but omg it is so slow. Plus it is a one time shot effect so ehhh. At 12 mana to drop and use it seems a bit odd... I have been displeased to have it before so I think I will go without it for a bit... If for some reason I think it needs to come back it always can... For now though I think I will take it out for some removal.(I decided against cutting it)Rakka Mar ahhhh she just spanws so slowly. It is really hard to make her tokens add up fast enough to do much. I want more explosive token spawning instead of just one per turn. It is hard to surprise someone when they see the one token a turn coming far ahead of time.
ADDS:
Chaos Warp it answers anything that needs to go. Enchantments can be an issue for red so I like how this solves any problem for my token swarms.
All Is Dust I am heavy artifact based so while I am a bit reluctant to include a sweeper I like that it can hit enchantments but duck some of my artifact creatures as well as my mana stones and what not.
Steel Hellkite Normally I am a bit reluctant to run this guy however the inclusion of all the haste outlets really makes him shine for this deck. I look forward to testing him out.
The last add is sort of up in the air yet... I was considering Shattering Pulse, Skred, Aftershock, and Shattering Spree... so its not like I have that one really nailed out yet... However I was sort of thinking perhaps Aftershock just due to its versatility however I like the larger effect / repeatability of some of the others. Skred is nice for the whole one mana answer but honestly I think the noncreatures give me a lot more trouble than the creatures when playing this list.
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[Modern] Allies
All is Dust is clever and could work too. Mogg Infestation looked good on paper, but maybe not in reality.
I was thinking Skittering Invasion might be idea for token generator that doesn't arouse too much fear since they are powerless. There is also Elemental Mastery still, which might be worth addressing.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
I will agree that Chaos Warp seems like it is the best answer as it gets rid of any problematic issue as well as tucking commanders. Red really doesnt have many ways in which to answer enchantments and planeswalkers outright so I am happy to have it. I knew I would likely include a few answers eventually but I wanted to wait and see what was under performing first.
All is Dust I go back and forth if I want a sweeper in here or not. When it comes down to it though I do like the idea of it. We have some artifact tokens and artifact creatures that would live through it plus it screws with the enchantments but not our mana stones. In the end due to all those I think I like it a lot more than Oblivion Stone / Nevinyrral's Disk in this type of deck. I still cant say how exactly it will work out but the infestation just never seemed to work as well as I wanted it to. It sat in my hand a lot and didn't get cast all that much.
Steel Helkite - Honestly yes he can totally screw with this deck if someone were to steal / rez him back and use him against us. However even with that said to be honest everyone sort of fears Steel Helkite hitting their board. He is troublesome for everyone and we have the advantage of having haste a lot more often than other players do. Plus its not like using Bribery on the mono R player really happens like ever. Even if they do use the Helkite on us most of our artifacts and creatures are staggered at different levels. The only thing they can nicely do is take out our tokens and a lot of our token production is explosive so we will go from very few tokens to tons and tons of tokens who attack the same turn.
In the end I think that the Helkite is at least worth testing. He seems like a great answer + threat for this deck and if someone uses premium spot removal on him that is one less for Marton.
Skittering Invasion I have actually considered this one once or twice as well. The downside is that it is sort of spendy to drop but it doesnt scale at all and it is like impossible for us to abuse. I like the big fatty token spawners as Kiki-Jiki, Mimic Vat, and Nim Deathmantle can all sort of abuse them. Plus you have to consider the fact that with the invasion we dont have any power behind them. They are not red so dont get our buffs off of Gauntlet of Power and Caged Sun. They dont play into our plan B of attacking all that well either whereas a Myr Battlesphere can do just fine at attacking on its own.
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[Modern] Allies
I got 2 more games in last night, we did this really odd draft planechase varient that I think someone just pulled out of their ass and so while being like the only one against the dumb idea we did it. It was odd and we drafted random options of planechase cards and when you would planechase you would take one randomly from your own pile and place it in play.
Game 1: This game was going alright I had like 5 mana stones in play right away so I dumped Kozilek, Butcher of Truth into play who I substituted in for the dragon last night because I knew where kozy was but not the dragon. Kozilek died immediately to an edict which was sad as I didn't think I would need a creature token to back him in the situation. The game sort of slowly churned and I dumped 9 snakes in off my snake basket as I had just dumb mana. I held back from using my Wheel of Fortune due to Chancellor of the Forge being in my hand at that point... I think I should have just done it but oh well. I dropped the chancellor in to spawn a ton of guys and just drop marton in for kicks to see if he will last.
I pass turn into an Insurrrection that kills us all... great I should have dropped the Wheel of Fortune.
Game 2: This was such a slow start it totally sucked. I dropped my Thran Dynamo and it got blown up right away I was stuck at like 4-5 land and no stones in play. Luckily I had my Emrakul's Hatcher + Nim Deathmantle in play. I dropped a Solemn Simulacrum into play and started abusing him with the deathmantle to ramp like 4-5 lands and mana overall when it was all done and said. I couldn't draw a damn bit of card draw or token production for the longest time which sucked a lot. My Anger got locked down behind a Journey to Nowhere. Luckily I forced a player to pop his Oblivion Stone just by poking him several turns in a row. He released my Anger and split a Wurmcoil Engine for me. From here I had like 5 guys in play and dropped Mogg Infestation as it was all I had on myself to spawn 10 tokens and drop Marton in to kill everyone. It was sort of a lucky one and I was surprised that the infestation came through for me right before I consider cutting it.
Even then the mogg infestation was only good due to having a few crummy creatures in play and no spawners + needing to kill off anger. I felt like it was a very random situation for the deck as usually I have some spawning options available and just didn't this time. I got lucky too as the same guy who dropped Insurrection on me last game flashed it for me to see when I killed everyone so if I had lacked a haste outlet again it would have finished the same lame way...
The games went alrigth overall... I wish I could get just like 1-2 more card draw outlets in here if possible but I dont really like my other options. I might continue trying Kozilek for a bit to see how he plays out. This time I loved the drawing 4 cards but the edict was sort of lame. I will keep trying and see how he does for the deck.
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[Modern] Allies
By the way, which dragon did you substitute him for? The Hoarder or the Mage? I'm going to assume the Mage because you've just gotten to adding him to the list. I say add the Mage in addition to Kozi.
I will try that out for a bit and see how it goes.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
I still want to cut it because I really only see it being a good call if for some reason we cannot get any token spawning going... even then if that is the case it is hard to get to the point where we have enough creatures to kick this off profitably... Sitting at 5 creatures in play with no token spawners available is a very odd situation for this deck and so far has only occurred to me the one time... Outside of that I generally don't want to wrath only one player's creatures and give him a ton of chump blockers to jump in my way with...
Personally I am still sort of on the idea of cutting it. It just feels like there are too few situations that call for it. It is a card that sits arround in my hand a lot usually when drawn being sort of difficult to use.
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[Modern] Allies
Your experiences make it seem like we need to be very careful when casting Marton, lest it help others win. In a similar situation Goblin Bombardment helped, but that is one of few sac engines in deck, which might need to be changed.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
Yes Insurection is an issue if there is another red player on board. However it is a bit odd that he would have drawn his both games. Still I try to only play Marton when I can also swing with haste or I have nothing else to do. It will continue to be a problem if people have Insurection but we could combat it with sac outlets or Homeward Path as well.
Also I forgot to take Ghitu Encampment out of my list and it has been a total pain in my ass getting around the CIP tapped every single time. I definitely need to take it out. I have not once animated the damn thing but it keeps pissing me off because I keep drawing the damn thing...
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I've never really asked before, but does the Meekstone and similar artifacts work well? I can understand it an attractive idea and deterrent.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
Meekstone and Ensnaring Bridge have done fantastic thigns for me in this deck. It makes it so I dont have to try to answer everythign my opponets play and it makes them consider saving creatures for defense rather than getting them stuck tapped down.
Ohhhh man do voltron commanders hate the hell out of the both of them. Both of them are amazing outlets vs that type of gameplan and they do so little to us. We do have a few things they do effect but overall they have been a very positive add to my list.
EDIT: again... I will consider Elemental Mastery and I might end up proxying it up and just randomly swapping it in on occasion to see how it pans out. I am not overly in love with the card due to its potential card advantage loss but it could also be fairly devistating.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I'll have to see if I can squeeze the Bridge in perhaps then, they sound like a good solution to when you're out of gas too.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
Homeward Path I have stated before an opposing Insurrection is an issue. I just added the eldrazi to the list as well so this gives some good anti theft backup. I personally think I like this more than Mistifying Maze at the least.
High Market another counter theft option. I also like how it can get rid of the Hoarding Dragon if I want to or just stop people from stealing my guys.
Eye of Ugin I am actually surprised I didnt think about this before... This gives us so much tutoring power in the deck though in the form of a land... I wouldnt swap it in for another land as much as find another thing I could possibly remove for it. I like how it is tutoring power in a land though... The downside obviously we cant tap it for mana but how many colorless creatures do we have in the list??? I dont know for sure but I thought it was probably worth looking at as an option.
Also... I havent been that impressed by Mistifying Maze in this list so far so I guess I could consider cutting it for one of the above mentioned lands possibly... I dont want to dip too far into our red sources but considering we are a mono colored deck we might be able to swing just adding a few more utility lands.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies