I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Well, I guess I should start with a commander 2013 breakdown.
From the Ashes I found it amusing, but Ruination effects have often been hit and miss for me. Being mono colored, if you like the idea of Ruination I would run that first and foremost. I would probably also run less utility lands if you go that route. Still, I find it really situational when that sort of thing works. This feels like a politically correct Ruination for those who hate blowing up lands on large scale. Its cool that it exists, but its not right for the deck really.
Sudden Demise I could see it being an interesting card if you enjoyed slow rolling into marton with creatures ahead of time. Even then though I would probably consider like Commit Storm or something over this but I would likely run Blasphemous Act over this in my own list if looking for a sweeper. Cool, but not that impressive on whole.
Tempt with Vengeance - this oddly fits the deck really really well. Its like a cheaper Goblin Offensive with hastey tokens. Any opponent taking the tempting offer will just kill our opponents that much harder lol. I like that Goblin Offensive worked with Krenko but outside of that small interaction, Tempt is a lot stronger having two less mana in its cost making it easier for us to go lethal for less mana.
Widespread Panic - I see it as another, slightly weaker Stranglehold. Its cool to see more of this. I would probably run Stranglehold over it though as I think it has more power but its nice that this is a little cheaper. Its cool, just not quite for this deck I think.
Witch Hunt amusing chaos. It doesn't fit the deck at all unfortunately but its amusing.
DECK CHANGES:
Goblin Offensive -> Tempt with Vengeance The offensive has some cool synergy with Krenko but its too niche not to make the change. Outside of Krenko, Tempt costs 2 less mana and ANYONE who is masochist enough to use the tempting offer just insures that everyone dies that much harder. I think this should be mostly just an improvement. I considered the idea of adding more of the X spells to the list or replacing firecat blitz instead. As far as quantity goes, I am happy with my amount of token spawners at the moment. If you feel that you dont run enough then adding it to the list is an option. It is probably stronger than something like Goblin Rally as it can make the same quantity of creatures for the same mana but has options to expand and be larger. It doesn't have any tribal interaction unfortunately but I think its probably fine as its a lot of guys for cheap. I feel that Firecat Blitz is probably as strong or stronger since the flashback can be used for an all in effect that will be much larger. Firecat Blitz also only costs one more mana for a similar effect. The tokens dying is really generally not an issue for this deck.
I've been playing this deck on MTGO. I have mostly had success, but have lost to Fog more times than I'd like to admit. I have really wanted find place for Blasphemous Act just because I have been dealing with a lot of creatures decks online recently, but otherwise I have been having a lot of fun. It's always good to see you opponents on -2938 Life because you attacked them to death without having to go infinite.
I've been playing this deck on MTGO. I have mostly had success, but have lost to Fog more times than I'd like to admit. I have really wanted find place for Blasphemous Act just because I have been dealing with a lot of creatures decks online recently, but otherwise I have been having a lot of fun. It's always good to see you opponents on -2938 Life because you attacked them to death without having to go infinite.
I am glad you like the list. I used to play mine on trice a lot because it often doesn't draw adequate attention to itself and explodes out on people like you said without infinite for the most part.
If I were to try to make a cut in the list right now, it might be one of the following:
Sculpting Steel its a solid card and when I can copy solid artifact ramp or utility its nice. I think Simulacrum is probably one of my favorite targets for this since it gives me good card advantage. It is a good card but there are plenty of artifacts that having a second of isnt a good idea because it doesn't function well, or it over extends our board state into a wrath effect.
Darksteel Ingot it only gives one mana and it costs three mana to drop. Its a safe plan to ramp but it isn't very fast or explosive.
Staff of Nin the one card per turn can be very slow considering how much mana it costs to drop. That being said, I have found the ping option on this surprisingly useful on numerous occasions. Sliver deck drops a Harmonic Sliver, you should probably ping it off before he wrecks everything. Opposing token deck, slow roll off some of his exess tokens. Its a decent card but as far as card draw goes, I have found it to be generally too expensive to expect much for draw out of it. It often gets answered too quickly to get much value from it.
Tears of Rage depending on if you need redundant marton effects I suppose. Playing in the same meta all the time, people will sometimes save spot removal for me due to my deck which makes this potentially more powerful than Marton because it ducks spot removal being really an issue for it.
Those would probably be some of my considerations if I were to make a cut offhand. I am glad you like the deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I think I might cut Tear's of Rage. Not because I don't like the card, but mainly because of how hard it is to play on MTGO. It also doesn't make Warp World any worse, which has quickly become my favorite win condition.
Commander 2013 isn't released online until 20th of December, but I am really looking forward to Tempt With Vengeance. It just seems so brutal in this deck.
Thanks again for this awesome Primer. I am really enjoying the deck. Keep it up
It was glorious to kill all the tokens, while all my gobo's lived. Won the game next turn with Tears of Rage; I didn't have a haste enabler for Marton, but was glad to have that extra Marton effect!
It was glorious to kill all the tokens, while all my gobo's lived. Won the game next turn with Tears of Rage; I didn't have a haste enabler for Marton, but was glad to have that extra Marton effect!
Its easy to forget about marton's block option but its super handy to have now and then. People always forget the block pump
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Long story short, Born doesn't have anything really worth reviewing for this deck sadly. I was trying to pick out something that I could at least talk about and consider but about the closest card was the more expensive Everflowing Chalice that taps for colored mana but thats fairly low on my totem so, long story short, there are no changes and nothing worth reviewing this set for Marton.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Long story short, Born doesn't have anything really worth reviewing for this deck sadly. I was trying to pick out something that I could at least talk about and consider but about the closest card was the more expensive Everflowing Chalice that taps for colored mana but thats fairly low on my totem so, long story short, there are no changes and nothing worth reviewing this set for Marton.
I tried to find somethings. Sadly, I agree. I was so looking forward to the red Archetype to grant haste, but trample?! AHHH!!! So disappointing! The Stormcaller of Keranos would have been the most amazing card and the exact push Marton needed, but that blue scry cost :/ Shattered again. The only thing that is even up for consideration is the Kiki-Jiki Minotaur, but Inspired isn't something that will normally trigger in our decks. That would mean we would have to attack with it regularly, assuming it can survive to untap, or put some cards in the deck that can make it tap/untap but would probably dilute the game plan. I share the sadness the the lack of love in this set. Hopefully Journey to Nyx will have some awesome token maker for us.
I tried to find somethings. Sadly, I agree. I was so looking forward to the red Archetype to grant haste, but trample?! AHHH!!! So disappointing! The Stormcaller of Keranos would have been the most amazing card and the exact push Marton needed, but that blue scry cost :/ Shattered again. The only thing that is even up for consideration is the Kiki-Jiki Minotaur, but Inspired isn't something that will normally trigger in our decks. That would mean we would have to attack with it regularly, assuming it can survive to untap, or put some cards in the deck that can make it tap/untap but would probably dilute the game plan. I share the sadness the the lack of love in this set. Hopefully Journey to Nyx will have some awesome token maker for us.
Yea, red was probably the worst of the mono colorless when it comes to EDH for this set. There was a lot of awkward limited and standard style of cards and it just didn't end up being much of EDH style of stuff for red. Its ok though, I am used to not seeing much for playable stuff in the mono color EDH decks in these recent multicolored sets.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I run a TON of artifacts in the list so.... its hard to say really. It could help when trying to go off but outside of that specific turn I dont think its going to be that useful. I run enough colorless / artifact cards that I would assume that its probably not that amazing. Like I said though, most anything I go off with though is going to involve bare minimum one red card though so it could be good when going off.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Gonna bump this thread up because I love this commander and this thread, I'm curious about Ogre Battledriver my buddy asked me why I wouldn't play it and It seems like a no brainer to me, another haste outlet and the pump? Do you not like it just because it's a creature?
My issue with the Battledriver is that the power pickup is sort of secondary to haste and a body. He also doesn't have haste himself which is sort of a bummer. He isn't a bad per say but I am assuming you are talking about using him over another haste outlet? The problem is he isn't as cheap as other haste outlets and not as robust as others. So it sort of leaves him as more fragile and expensive than most of the ones I already run. Its not bad per say but I just couldn't justify cutting something else I was running to include him and I still think I like the idea of running Urabrask the Hidden (who I no longer run) over him.
He is ok, but really I only see his pump being relevant if Marton is not and if Marton is not working I think there are more productive things than the battledriver is sort of how I see things.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Dictate of the Twin Gods double damage is fun. Most of the time that we have output though its so overwhelming though that double damage doesnt matter though. Its a cool card but it doesn't fit this particular deck's design as it is right now. That isn't to say it couldn't be used in a marton deck but it would not be that useful in my own build as it stands. If I were doing more consistent damage over time I could see it being a lot more relevant but at the same time, Gratuitous Violence and Rage Reflection are options too that dont give to opponents so that's hard to say if it would be that useful. Its probably something to consider if you were already considering Furnace of Rath
Hall of Triumph its cool to see anthem effects for red as an option, but sadly I just dont see this being that great overall. It doesnt scale all that much and only gives a slight bump where as all of the mana double effects I run also cover this for me.
Harness by Force It is an interesting card from the perspective of theft based cards. It doesnt scale well enough though for what this deck wants to be doing but its definately more interesting than a mere Threaten. Still, it costs more mana to scale it up than I am willing to do generally speaking. There are a lot of variations on theft effects these days and while I think its interesting its not enough for what this deck needs to do.
Prophetic Flamespeaker its potentially a means of card draw. As far as the creature goes though, he is sort of slow since he lacks haste and would have to pick it up from something else or slow roll into play. I sort of feel that red looting is often more productive though as I have to cast anything I get that same turn so its hard to really hit the critical mass sort of hand I normally shoot for with this sort of odd style of draw effect. I think its really cool, but I think that there are a lot of situational things sort of holding him back still as well as the fact that hes just not hard to chump block or deal with in general. I think its a super cool flavorful thing for red to have but I would want more effects that I am willing to just wheel off into play regardless of what they are in my deck and too much of my deck sets up for the right boardstate / hand combination to go forward.
Riddle of Lightning its essentially a means of card selection as well as a removal spell. Its not cheap and it doesn't replace itself in hand but its sort of cool in its own way. Still.... I think its a little too expensive for what it does but the curve is high enough that the deck could probably get away with it being an ok creature removal spell. I think its still a little low tier to consider adding to the list but its interesting.
Spawn of Thraxes removal and a big fatty. Since Fire Dragon isn't a new thing I dont think shaving 2 mana off makes it that much more playable in this deck. I could see it in a dragon based deck or just a mono red random creatures deck but it doesn't scale with anything I am doing so I will probably pass on it.
Twinflame now this card is interesting... It is a kiki-jiki effect that can scale for more targets and its instant speed to boot. I actually might consider testing this card. I am a little light on creatures to make it work really well but I could see some situations that could really make it strong potentially for this deck. Even if I just end up getting an extra simulacrum at instant speed I could be happy with this spell. The best part is that I get to keep tokens from it until the end of the next end step so I can cast it at my opponents end step and keep them through my next turn. It seems like a really cool spell to potentially give a shot in here. EDIT: its worth mentioning that you can potentially copy marton as you go to attack if someone tries spot removing him and letting the original die thus preserving his presence in play. Kiki doesn't allow for legend cloning but this spell does so you can sac the original legend and keep the copy.
Of the things from journey, I think that Twinflame has the most potential for this deck offhand. I dont really see myself giving any of the other cards a chance but I am thinking about testing Twinflame going forward and seeing if it does anything productive. I wont nail down any particular card swap out right now but I will probably try it in for Sculpting Steel for now since its just sort of a generic card. The point of the testing right now is mostly to see how it performs since I dont run that many creatures that I could say that it will definitely pay off or not.
This deck is so much fun. I've been playing it online for months, and I have finally have it built in paper (I woould rather not get into the abhorrent things I had to do to find a near mint Gauntlet of Might), and it was just as much fun as I hoped it would be. Winning out of nowhere when you only have three tokens in play to immediately having a huge, murderous army will never get old. I have made a couple of meta changes. Due to a large number of artifact decks running around at my LGS I have decided to add a Tuktuk Scrapper. The only way I have found myself dying is to Sword of War and Peace and Sword of Fire and Ice, so I decided to add an easily tutorable answer. I also changed Starstorm to Blasphemous Act due to the large number of huge swarm decks running around. I found a cheap way of dealing with all their creatures was much more effective than having the instant speed, but infinitely more expensive cycler.
Thanks ISBPathfinder for this awesome list. It has granted me endless bouts of fun. I'd love to see how Twinflame goes, because I was also eyeing it out as a potentially epic spell.
CptAwesum - thanks for the feedback. I likewise have had a lot of fun with Marton. It has done a great job to quiet those who complain about red being weak lol. Tuktuk Scrapper is a fine card especially since he fits the goblin theme and is thus easily tutored.
Twinflame - I had been assuming it was an instant until now...... its really unfortunate that I misinterpreted that but I still want to test it. We will see if it goes anywhere but I am sort of assuming offhand that the low creature count in general for this deck is probably going to kill it especially at sorcery speed . I will try to wait to test it to assume though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Fair enough. It's always depressing when a new set is released. Mono-Red Commander decks don't seem to get as much love as they deserve. Conspiracy should hopefully have something powerful.
Hey ISB! I am going to revise my list soon. But so far here are my updates
Prophetic Flame Speaker: Has been really awesome. Early in the game its a risk to go swinging in with him. I have exiled Warp World with a frown on my face. But late game, he gives you lots of fuel. My card advantage package has slowly evolved from looting to exiling effects, like Chandra and Flamespeaker and manipulating the top with Scrying Sheets and Sensei's Top. I have been liking it so far.
In other news, I think you and me both misread Twincast. While I knew it was Sorcery speed, I thought you could continuously target the same creature. Like, Twincast 2-3 times targeting Myr Battlesphere, get in there for lots. But I guess the ruling states that you can only target one creature at a time. Rats. But when I tested it, it was pretty good. I am not running it now, but let me know what you think.
As far as the new conspiracy set goes, any red tech seems limited. Heartless Histuge reprint we won't get any new red legends. Also, Theros didn't give us any momo red legends, despite giving every mono color a legendary creature. Pooey Anyway, The Ogre spoiled on Gatheringmagic seems interesting. Pay 3 life for one red mana. It feels strong I just don't know how. Also tutorable with recruiter. The Dragon looks REALLY awesome. I think its a little less restricting then Hellkite Charger. What do you think so far?
Prophetic Flamespeaker its interesting that he has been testing well for you. I am still a little skeptical but he does potentially draw like 2 cards a turn in his own roundabout way. I will see if I cant get some testing in on him as I am still skeptical but it seems easy enough to just swing at the open player with him. The downside being that like anything repels him so you do need to be swinging at empty board states with him generally.
Twinflame - the longer I looked at it the less impressed I became with it. In the end I just sort of shrugged it off and didn't include it. If I ran more creatures or we could stack it to make a bunch of copies of the same thing or perhaps it was an instant I think there are lots of ways in which I would proceed with testing but in the end, I just think there are enough things wrong with it to not warrant inclusion.
Out of Conspiracy so far -
Treasonous Ogre this guy will likely make my list. This deck has a lot of things that tend to put them all in and I like this guy a lot as I see him as a source of tons of mana output. He more than pays for himself so he is sort of like a super sol ring the turn he drops but he gives colored mana and can swing. I have high hopes for him as things stand.
Scourge of the Throne it doesn't really fit this deck all that well to be honest. There are a lot of ways in which we could try to get an extra combat phase but he costs a lot of mana to drop in the turn we go off for his ability that is mostly winmore anyways. I think he is cool but I dont really quite get the feeling that he has the type of synergy with this deck that we would be looking for.
Deal Broker looting is alright. Being on an artifact creature is nice for welder / trading post / Buried Ruin not that I would anticipate trying to abuse him or anything. Its... ok but nothing new for red.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Continuing my attempt to get Primer Reviews in here is my Marton review:
M15 Set Review:
Act on Impulse I have always been a little iffy on the one turn psudo draw they have been introducing a bit more of late. This stuff works better in a list with a low curve and seems designed more for a 60 card aggro - midrange build. I often need to keep key cards in hand for the right time so I would much rather loot than have temp access to cards.
Goblin Rabblemaster it reminds me of a more fragile Goblin Assault. The advantage being that its a goblin itself making tutoring for it easier. It seems more suited to fit into stax style of decks than anything though to me.
Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient this is an artifact heavy list so I guess he is worth considering. I counted something like 10 effects that he interacts well with. I think he is really cool but likely something you need to build around to maximize his effect. He is a cool card though for sure.
Might Makes Right really cool effect. I dont think its quite strong enough to be playable but its a cool and interesting spin for red. I really like how this cycle turned out even though I dont see myself playing most of it but its just sort of nice things. On this one, we are more of a token deck so its not all that likely that we would be triggering it. I also dont focus that much on sac effects to make it powerful. I think its cool though.
Paragon of Fierce Defiance you know, I think this might be my favorite of this cycle. Tapping to give haste seems relevant here and the creature types makes this guy buddies with Lovisa Coldeyes for those who would run her. The problem with this guy though is that his anthem is quite small and his haste is a tap to activate so really any of the mass haste effects seem stronger to me because they go active much faster. Its cool, but I would really only consider using him in a budget list.
Soul of Shandalar its sort of a nice mana sink / answer. I dont run a lot of answers in this list though to be honest and paying 10 mana to burn off an x/6 sounds incredibly painful to achieve. It just doesnt really have anything in common with what this deck is trying to do other than the fact that it can operate as a mana sink.
Perilous Vault I run this deck as a heavy gas style of deck. I just dont have room to run this sort of thing because I too often require a lot of setup for what I am trying to do.
Soul of New Phyrexia it is possible to use this as a means to try to protect a developing board state but it seems incredibly difficult to do so. This deck often needs to tap itself out so this seems very difficult to achieve as an option. One of the strongest plays with something like this might be with a tap to loot effect in play and out of nowhere looting him off into the bin to use his exile protect but that seems incredibly difficult to achieve.
Of the things from M15, I dont predict that I will be testing / running any of them as it stands. I really need to run this list a bit more often but I will confess that the presence of a Zirilan of the Claw deck has been making me run my Marton a little less because of his consistency with connecting with Hellkite Tyrant is very problematic with how my list is built at the moment. I might have to consider retooling or something but its one of two decks that player owns and its just not really worth me playing this deck against.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I think you possibly overlooked something from M15. Shield of the Avatar? I'd like your opinion on it as it seems to be a shoe in for those games where you can't get massive amounts of dudes with Marton, it allows you to attack and not have Marton get picked off my a random 1/1 dude, which will allow you to dole out multiple attacks round after round.
On this same train of thought, I'm curious as to why you're running Mystifying Maze and not Maze of Ith. Ith does roughly the same that Maze does, doesn't retrigger ETB effects, doesn't cost mana to use, and you can use it to keep Marton safe, since Mystifying Maze is only opponents creatures.
I think you possibly overlooked something from M15. Shield of the Avatar? I'd like your opinion on it as it seems to be a shoe in for those games where you can't get massive amounts of dudes with Marton, it allows you to attack and not have Marton get picked off my a random 1/1 dude, which will allow you to dole out multiple attacks round after round.
On this same train of thought, I'm curious as to why you're running Mystifying Maze and not Maze of Ith. Ith does roughly the same that Maze does, doesn't retrigger ETB effects, doesn't cost mana to use, and you can use it to keep Marton safe, since Mystifying Maze is only opponents creatures.
Shield of the Avatar I suppose in some ways I didn't give this card the credit I should have for this list. I play marton in a way generally that if he gets to swinging I probably already won though so the fact that he would die is mostly irrelevant for me. I could see it played in lists that plan on being more of an aggro deck and trying to get in for some decent numbers. I play him more like a combo where if he is swinging I probably sealed the game away already.
Maze of Ith doesn't tap for mana so I cant really consider it a land in my mind. I really like Maze of Ith but due to not tapping for mana I don't run it in a lot more decks than I do run it in. I even own two originals from like 15 years ago. It does have some interaction with Marton but like I said I generally dont play him until I am running people over and at that point the fact that he will die is generally not that big of a deal for me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
This looks like a great fit for the deck!
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
From the Ashes I found it amusing, but Ruination effects have often been hit and miss for me. Being mono colored, if you like the idea of Ruination I would run that first and foremost. I would probably also run less utility lands if you go that route. Still, I find it really situational when that sort of thing works. This feels like a politically correct Ruination for those who hate blowing up lands on large scale. Its cool that it exists, but its not right for the deck really.
Sudden Demise I could see it being an interesting card if you enjoyed slow rolling into marton with creatures ahead of time. Even then though I would probably consider like Commit Storm or something over this but I would likely run Blasphemous Act over this in my own list if looking for a sweeper. Cool, but not that impressive on whole.
Tempt with Vengeance - this oddly fits the deck really really well. Its like a cheaper Goblin Offensive with hastey tokens. Any opponent taking the tempting offer will just kill our opponents that much harder lol. I like that Goblin Offensive worked with Krenko but outside of that small interaction, Tempt is a lot stronger having two less mana in its cost making it easier for us to go lethal for less mana.
Widespread Panic - I see it as another, slightly weaker Stranglehold. Its cool to see more of this. I would probably run Stranglehold over it though as I think it has more power but its nice that this is a little cheaper. Its cool, just not quite for this deck I think.
Witch Hunt amusing chaos. It doesn't fit the deck at all unfortunately but its amusing.
DECK CHANGES:
Goblin Offensive -> Tempt with Vengeance The offensive has some cool synergy with Krenko but its too niche not to make the change. Outside of Krenko, Tempt costs 2 less mana and ANYONE who is masochist enough to use the tempting offer just insures that everyone dies that much harder. I think this should be mostly just an improvement. I considered the idea of adding more of the X spells to the list or replacing firecat blitz instead. As far as quantity goes, I am happy with my amount of token spawners at the moment. If you feel that you dont run enough then adding it to the list is an option. It is probably stronger than something like Goblin Rally as it can make the same quantity of creatures for the same mana but has options to expand and be larger. It doesn't have any tribal interaction unfortunately but I think its probably fine as its a lot of guys for cheap. I feel that Firecat Blitz is probably as strong or stronger since the flashback can be used for an all in effect that will be much larger. Firecat Blitz also only costs one more mana for a similar effect. The tokens dying is really generally not an issue for this deck.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I am glad you like the list. I used to play mine on trice a lot because it often doesn't draw adequate attention to itself and explodes out on people like you said without infinite for the most part.
If I were to try to make a cut in the list right now, it might be one of the following:
Sculpting Steel its a solid card and when I can copy solid artifact ramp or utility its nice. I think Simulacrum is probably one of my favorite targets for this since it gives me good card advantage. It is a good card but there are plenty of artifacts that having a second of isnt a good idea because it doesn't function well, or it over extends our board state into a wrath effect.
Darksteel Ingot it only gives one mana and it costs three mana to drop. Its a safe plan to ramp but it isn't very fast or explosive.
Staff of Nin the one card per turn can be very slow considering how much mana it costs to drop. That being said, I have found the ping option on this surprisingly useful on numerous occasions. Sliver deck drops a Harmonic Sliver, you should probably ping it off before he wrecks everything. Opposing token deck, slow roll off some of his exess tokens. Its a decent card but as far as card draw goes, I have found it to be generally too expensive to expect much for draw out of it. It often gets answered too quickly to get much value from it.
Tears of Rage depending on if you need redundant marton effects I suppose. Playing in the same meta all the time, people will sometimes save spot removal for me due to my deck which makes this potentially more powerful than Marton because it ducks spot removal being really an issue for it.
Those would probably be some of my considerations if I were to make a cut offhand. I am glad you like the deck.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Commander 2013 isn't released online until 20th of December, but I am really looking forward to Tempt With Vengeance. It just seems so brutal in this deck.
Thanks again for this awesome Primer. I am really enjoying the deck. Keep it up
It was an Kamahl, Fist of Krosa" target="blank">Kamahl, Fist of Krosa double overrun with about 30 Avenger of Zendikar tokens (at 2/3 + 2 overruns).
It was glorious to kill all the tokens, while all my gobo's lived. Won the game next turn with Tears of Rage; I didn't have a haste enabler for Marton, but was glad to have that extra Marton effect!
Its easy to forget about marton's block option but its super handy to have now and then. People always forget the block pump
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I tried to find somethings. Sadly, I agree. I was so looking forward to the red Archetype to grant haste, but trample?! AHHH!!! So disappointing! The Stormcaller of Keranos would have been the most amazing card and the exact push Marton needed, but that blue scry cost :/ Shattered again. The only thing that is even up for consideration is the Kiki-Jiki Minotaur, but Inspired isn't something that will normally trigger in our decks. That would mean we would have to attack with it regularly, assuming it can survive to untap, or put some cards in the deck that can make it tap/untap but would probably dilute the game plan. I share the sadness the the lack of love in this set. Hopefully Journey to Nyx will have some awesome token maker for us.
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Yea, red was probably the worst of the mono colorless when it comes to EDH for this set. There was a lot of awkward limited and standard style of cards and it just didn't end up being much of EDH style of stuff for red. Its ok though, I am used to not seeing much for playable stuff in the mono color EDH decks in these recent multicolored sets.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
I run a TON of artifacts in the list so.... its hard to say really. It could help when trying to go off but outside of that specific turn I dont think its going to be that useful. I run enough colorless / artifact cards that I would assume that its probably not that amazing. Like I said though, most anything I go off with though is going to involve bare minimum one red card though so it could be good when going off.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
He is ok, but really I only see his pump being relevant if Marton is not and if Marton is not working I think there are more productive things than the battledriver is sort of how I see things.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Journey Into Nyx Review:
Cyclops of Eternal Fury mass haste is good, but this guy is so far behind Urabrask the Hidden that its something to only consider really for budget lists.
Dictate of the Twin Gods double damage is fun. Most of the time that we have output though its so overwhelming though that double damage doesnt matter though. Its a cool card but it doesn't fit this particular deck's design as it is right now. That isn't to say it couldn't be used in a marton deck but it would not be that useful in my own build as it stands. If I were doing more consistent damage over time I could see it being a lot more relevant but at the same time, Gratuitous Violence and Rage Reflection are options too that dont give to opponents so that's hard to say if it would be that useful. Its probably something to consider if you were already considering Furnace of Rath
Hall of Triumph its cool to see anthem effects for red as an option, but sadly I just dont see this being that great overall. It doesnt scale all that much and only gives a slight bump where as all of the mana double effects I run also cover this for me.
Harness by Force It is an interesting card from the perspective of theft based cards. It doesnt scale well enough though for what this deck wants to be doing but its definately more interesting than a mere Threaten. Still, it costs more mana to scale it up than I am willing to do generally speaking. There are a lot of variations on theft effects these days and while I think its interesting its not enough for what this deck needs to do.
Prophetic Flamespeaker its potentially a means of card draw. As far as the creature goes though, he is sort of slow since he lacks haste and would have to pick it up from something else or slow roll into play. I sort of feel that red looting is often more productive though as I have to cast anything I get that same turn so its hard to really hit the critical mass sort of hand I normally shoot for with this sort of odd style of draw effect. I think its really cool, but I think that there are a lot of situational things sort of holding him back still as well as the fact that hes just not hard to chump block or deal with in general. I think its a super cool flavorful thing for red to have but I would want more effects that I am willing to just wheel off into play regardless of what they are in my deck and too much of my deck sets up for the right boardstate / hand combination to go forward.
Riddle of Lightning its essentially a means of card selection as well as a removal spell. Its not cheap and it doesn't replace itself in hand but its sort of cool in its own way. Still.... I think its a little too expensive for what it does but the curve is high enough that the deck could probably get away with it being an ok creature removal spell. I think its still a little low tier to consider adding to the list but its interesting.
Spawn of Thraxes removal and a big fatty. Since Fire Dragon isn't a new thing I dont think shaving 2 mana off makes it that much more playable in this deck. I could see it in a dragon based deck or just a mono red random creatures deck but it doesn't scale with anything I am doing so I will probably pass on it.
Twinflame now this card is interesting... It is a kiki-jiki effect that can scale for more targets and its instant speed to boot. I actually might consider testing this card. I am a little light on creatures to make it work really well but I could see some situations that could really make it strong potentially for this deck. Even if I just end up getting an extra simulacrum at instant speed I could be happy with this spell. The best part is that I get to keep tokens from it until the end of the next end step so I can cast it at my opponents end step and keep them through my next turn. It seems like a really cool spell to potentially give a shot in here. EDIT: its worth mentioning that you can potentially copy marton as you go to attack if someone tries spot removing him and letting the original die thus preserving his presence in play. Kiki doesn't allow for legend cloning but this spell does so you can sac the original legend and keep the copy.
Of the things from journey, I think that Twinflame has the most potential for this deck offhand. I dont really see myself giving any of the other cards a chance but I am thinking about testing Twinflame going forward and seeing if it does anything productive. I wont nail down any particular card swap out right now but I will probably try it in for Sculpting Steel for now since its just sort of a generic card. The point of the testing right now is mostly to see how it performs since I dont run that many creatures that I could say that it will definitely pay off or not.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Thanks ISBPathfinder for this awesome list. It has granted me endless bouts of fun. I'd love to see how Twinflame goes, because I was also eyeing it out as a potentially epic spell.
Twinflame - I had been assuming it was an instant until now...... its really unfortunate that I misinterpreted that but I still want to test it. We will see if it goes anywhere but I am sort of assuming offhand that the low creature count in general for this deck is probably going to kill it especially at sorcery speed . I will try to wait to test it to assume though.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Prophetic Flame Speaker: Has been really awesome. Early in the game its a risk to go swinging in with him. I have exiled Warp World with a frown on my face. But late game, he gives you lots of fuel. My card advantage package has slowly evolved from looting to exiling effects, like Chandra and Flamespeaker and manipulating the top with Scrying Sheets and Sensei's Top. I have been liking it so far.
In other news, I think you and me both misread Twincast. While I knew it was Sorcery speed, I thought you could continuously target the same creature. Like, Twincast 2-3 times targeting Myr Battlesphere, get in there for lots. But I guess the ruling states that you can only target one creature at a time. Rats. But when I tested it, it was pretty good. I am not running it now, but let me know what you think.
As far as the new conspiracy set goes, any red tech seems limited. Heartless Histuge reprint we won't get any new red legends. Also, Theros didn't give us any momo red legends, despite giving every mono color a legendary creature. Pooey Anyway, The Ogre spoiled on Gatheringmagic seems interesting. Pay 3 life for one red mana. It feels strong I just don't know how. Also tutorable with recruiter. The Dragon looks REALLY awesome. I think its a little less restricting then Hellkite Charger. What do you think so far?
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Twinflame - the longer I looked at it the less impressed I became with it. In the end I just sort of shrugged it off and didn't include it. If I ran more creatures or we could stack it to make a bunch of copies of the same thing or perhaps it was an instant I think there are lots of ways in which I would proceed with testing but in the end, I just think there are enough things wrong with it to not warrant inclusion.
Out of Conspiracy so far -
Treasonous Ogre this guy will likely make my list. This deck has a lot of things that tend to put them all in and I like this guy a lot as I see him as a source of tons of mana output. He more than pays for himself so he is sort of like a super sol ring the turn he drops but he gives colored mana and can swing. I have high hopes for him as things stand.
Scourge of the Throne it doesn't really fit this deck all that well to be honest. There are a lot of ways in which we could try to get an extra combat phase but he costs a lot of mana to drop in the turn we go off for his ability that is mostly winmore anyways. I think he is cool but I dont really quite get the feeling that he has the type of synergy with this deck that we would be looking for.
Deal Broker looting is alright. Being on an artifact creature is nice for welder / trading post / Buried Ruin not that I would anticipate trying to abuse him or anything. Its... ok but nothing new for red.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
M15 Set Review:
Act on Impulse I have always been a little iffy on the one turn psudo draw they have been introducing a bit more of late. This stuff works better in a list with a low curve and seems designed more for a 60 card aggro - midrange build. I often need to keep key cards in hand for the right time so I would much rather loot than have temp access to cards.
Goblin Rabblemaster it reminds me of a more fragile Goblin Assault. The advantage being that its a goblin itself making tutoring for it easier. It seems more suited to fit into stax style of decks than anything though to me.
Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient this is an artifact heavy list so I guess he is worth considering. I counted something like 10 effects that he interacts well with. I think he is really cool but likely something you need to build around to maximize his effect. He is a cool card though for sure.
Might Makes Right really cool effect. I dont think its quite strong enough to be playable but its a cool and interesting spin for red. I really like how this cycle turned out even though I dont see myself playing most of it but its just sort of nice things. On this one, we are more of a token deck so its not all that likely that we would be triggering it. I also dont focus that much on sac effects to make it powerful. I think its cool though.
Paragon of Fierce Defiance you know, I think this might be my favorite of this cycle. Tapping to give haste seems relevant here and the creature types makes this guy buddies with Lovisa Coldeyes for those who would run her. The problem with this guy though is that his anthem is quite small and his haste is a tap to activate so really any of the mass haste effects seem stronger to me because they go active much faster. Its cool, but I would really only consider using him in a budget list.
Soul of Shandalar its sort of a nice mana sink / answer. I dont run a lot of answers in this list though to be honest and paying 10 mana to burn off an x/6 sounds incredibly painful to achieve. It just doesnt really have anything in common with what this deck is trying to do other than the fact that it can operate as a mana sink.
Perilous Vault I run this deck as a heavy gas style of deck. I just dont have room to run this sort of thing because I too often require a lot of setup for what I am trying to do.
Soul of New Phyrexia it is possible to use this as a means to try to protect a developing board state but it seems incredibly difficult to do so. This deck often needs to tap itself out so this seems very difficult to achieve as an option. One of the strongest plays with something like this might be with a tap to loot effect in play and out of nowhere looting him off into the bin to use his exile protect but that seems incredibly difficult to achieve.
Of the things from M15, I dont predict that I will be testing / running any of them as it stands. I really need to run this list a bit more often but I will confess that the presence of a Zirilan of the Claw deck has been making me run my Marton a little less because of his consistency with connecting with Hellkite Tyrant is very problematic with how my list is built at the moment. I might have to consider retooling or something but its one of two decks that player owns and its just not really worth me playing this deck against.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
On this same train of thought, I'm curious as to why you're running Mystifying Maze and not Maze of Ith. Ith does roughly the same that Maze does, doesn't retrigger ETB effects, doesn't cost mana to use, and you can use it to keep Marton safe, since Mystifying Maze is only opponents creatures.
Shield of the Avatar I suppose in some ways I didn't give this card the credit I should have for this list. I play marton in a way generally that if he gets to swinging I probably already won though so the fact that he would die is mostly irrelevant for me. I could see it played in lists that plan on being more of an aggro deck and trying to get in for some decent numbers. I play him more like a combo where if he is swinging I probably sealed the game away already.
Maze of Ith doesn't tap for mana so I cant really consider it a land in my mind. I really like Maze of Ith but due to not tapping for mana I don't run it in a lot more decks than I do run it in. I even own two originals from like 15 years ago. It does have some interaction with Marton but like I said I generally dont play him until I am running people over and at that point the fact that he will die is generally not that big of a deal for me.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies