I can't decide how I feel about The Immortal Sun (spoiler below, because it looks like the card link isn't working yet). Card draw is obviously great and the cost reduction is good. The anthem will be occasionally useful, but is more or less a non-factor. Shutting off walkers hurts a lot. My current list is sitting at 5 of them and I'd qualify all of them as high impact cards. I'm not going to be able to make a call on this one without actual testing.
If you're running lighter on walkers than I am, enjoy the new toy. There's a lot of upside here.
Immortal Sun - 6
Legendary Artifact
Players can't activate Loyalty abilities of Planeswalkers.
At the beginning of your draw step, draw an additional card.
Spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
Creatures you control get +1/+1.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Immortal Sun looks interesting. It feels better than Staff of Nin, but the pinging does do well with damage doublers. I personally do not play these effects in my list but I will definitely be taking a look at Immortal Sun.
It looks like we may be getting an actual factual Jaya Ballard planeswalker card. I don't know how good it will be, but I'm certain I'll make room for it.
Carrying on a proud tradition of procrastination, I'm going to do my initial set review for RIX the day the full spoiler drops despite having a bunch of stuff to get done. Without further ado,
Red Blood Sun - I love the cantrip. I don't love that it's guaranteed to heavily inconvenience me thanks to my heavy reliance on nonbasics and not guaranteed to do anything to my opponents. If you're playing a less techy manabase than I am, this is a solid include. I wouldn't run it over OG (Magus of the) Moon if you have access to that.
Brass's Bounty - Enormous ritual. I like this a lot if you have a use for the treasures beyond saccing them for mana. If it's just a ritual, this feels like too much of a do nothing card without an excessive number of lands and/or a mana doubler. It sets up a great following turn that everyone at the table knows is coming, which leaves a lot of time to disrupt and prepare.
Dire Fleet Daredevil - Standout card from the set. The downside of not being able to plan what role this fills during deck construction is massively outweighed by the utility that it offers in a multiplayer game. This is costed to be potentially eternal playable so don't sleep too long on it if you're interested. Odds are good that standard isn't the driving demand for this card.
Etali, Primal Storm - Solid finisher and Jaya already wants haste. Not surviving inferno is obviously a downside. That said, it generates so much card advantage that it probably eats a Doom Blade before that's ever relevant and a single anthem/equip gets it into safe range. This is the first 6 toughness big beater that I've been tempted by in a while, maybe since Inferno Titan.
Mutiny - Potentially decent budget removal. Sorcery hurts it a lot, as do the targeting restrictions. I wouldn't run this before Bolt.
Silverclad Ferocidons - This is the best enrage option we've seen this block. There are a few ways to do chip damage in here and it plays as nicely with inferno as any creature that dies to it. My gut feeling is that it falls into the camp of pricey answers to problem permanents, but my heart really wants to land this and Kumano, Master Yamabushi simultaneously. It has a place in slower metas and more budget builds.
Tilonalli's Summoner - Oddly enough, also a decent finisher. This deck tends to play towards the very late game and aims to have a large mana advantage over everything but the dedicated ramp decks. X-cost token production plays well with that. There's some political potential in that you can swing into one player with the 1/1 and send the elemental horde a different direction. Plays nicely with the anthem on Gauntlet effects (as well as mana doubling, obviously). I like this more here than I initially thought i was going to. I don't think there's anything that I would cut for it, though.
Artifact/Land Arch of Orazca - Solid when drawn or tutored late, less so early game. Aside from the obvious, the ability is a overcosted for a single card. Sticking on a land cuts down on the opportunity cost quite a bit. If you have space for another colorless nonbasic, this is a reasonable consideration.
Azor's Gateway - Right off the bat, evaluate this based on the front. The back is obviously powerful and it's rarely going to get there undisrupted in a multiplayer EDH game without some kind of combo. The front is potentially good enough. Reasonably priced looting is good to have for mono-R. Looting to exile is much worse when you have various GY effects. This is tough to evaluate without playing it.
Golden Guardian - Wholly dependent on how reliably you can flip it, which is going to be deck dependent, because the back is very desirable here. There are some good tricks like fighting something small in response to a wrath, or fighting Stuffy Doll at basically any point. I have very few creatures large enough to just kill it in a fight so it's a tough sell for me.
The Immortal Sun - I talked about this briefly when it was spoiled and my thoughts are much the same. I run a little walker heavy to be really comfortable with this, though it may be good enough to overlook that anti-synergy. if you're not running walker heavy - which probably means a little more of a creature focus for closing games - this is a great card. Card draw and cost reduction are very solid effects for any controlling list, plus mono-R is already used to paying 6 for that kind of thing. I'll try this at some point, probably over a Chandra to cut down walker counts a little, and would recommend at least giving it a trial.
Orazca Relic - Off-brand Mind Stone. I like mana rocks that can cycle late, I don't so much like that you can't play this as early development and still get the effect. Three mana for a one mana rock is a poor return as well. If you're looking for something past Mind Stone, Commander's Sphere, and Hedron Archive, this is probably the next best in category. That's probably going too deep on those and I would stick to other 2 CMC rocks.
Silent Gravestone - Decent GY hate. While I play out of the yard pretty heavily, most of it doesn't involve targeted effects. Reanimation in EDH is heavily weighted towards targeted spells and abilities, so this is a nice roadblock that can be cashed in for a more permanent solution and replacement card late. This may be a better option than Relic of Progenitus for a GY heavy Jaya list, and a little worse to even with Tormod's Crypt.
The rundown: Dire Fleet Daredevil is one of the best cards printed for this deck in some time so I'm definitely finding a spot for that. Immortal Sun has a lot going for it despite the high CMC and is another potential include. Beyond those two, I run into the same problem I always have with new cards: I have to cut an old card to make room for them. There are a few that I would consider if I was building from scratch, specifically Azor's Gateway and Silent Gravestone, that are tough to fit into a six year old list.
As usual, let me know if there's something that I'm missing or that you're curious what I think about. Red this set is geared very midrange and a lot of the high impact EDH cards are multicolored so there aren't a ton of borderline cards.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I am not sure how I feel about Dire Fleet Daredevil. It's nice that it is cheap, but I do not like that it is limited to only the turn it is cast. I also do not like that it is limited to Instant/Sorcery (would be OP if it did everything obviously). Let us know when you see it in games and what it does.
I have the same problem as you Weebo. This mono red shell has been here for years...it is tough to find cuts.
I am not sure how I feel about Dire Fleet Daredevil. It's nice that it is cheap, but I do not like that it is limited to only the turn it is cast. I also do not like that it is limited to Instant/Sorcery (would be OP if it did everything obviously). Let us know when you see it in games and what it does.
I have the same problem as you Weebo. This mono red shell has been here for years...it is tough to find cuts.
Mt thinking is that the most common types of instant and sorceries you are going to see in graveyards are ramp spells, tutors, and removal. Every once in a while, somebody will have a crazy bomb spell in the graveyard to steal, like a Time Warp or Insurrection; but those will be rare. I think that paying 5 for a 2/1 plus Cultivate or 4 for a 2/1 plus Demonic Tutor seems strong. Ofsource, there is only so much I can say about the card until it comes out and we actually get to play with it.
Mt thinking is that the most common types of instant and sorceries you are going to see in graveyards are ramp spells, tutors, and removal. Every once in a while, somebody will have a crazy bomb spell in the graveyard to steal, like a Time Warp or Insurrection; but those will be rare. I think that paying 5 for a 2/1 plus Cultivate or 4 for a 2/1 plus Demonic Tutor seems strong. Ofsource, there is only so much I can say about the card until it comes out and we actually get to play with it.
This is basically my take on it. If it ends up being a semi-reliable Disenchant/Swords I'm cool with that and it doesn't seem like that much of a stretch in a multiplayer EDH game. I haven't even had a chance to play since it was spoiled (no checking out options in GYs), so it may take a bit for me to decide how much I like it, but I'm very optimistic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Ive been trying out Daredevil, Sun and Arch of Orazca so far Sun and Daredevil have been really impressive. It has been hard to tell with sun however as it gets removed within a turn or two of it coming down. That just means its scary enough and strong enough though I suspect. The games it has stuck around though have been great, the minor reduction off it was pretty sweet not to meantion the draw. I personally am looking at lowering the planeswalker count myself and will likely have Chandra Abalze go for it as they fill a similar role of refueling and interrupting my opponent. Not much to say on Daredevil though, every game he has been steller, sure now and then topor orb came up butonce it was gone Ive gotten D tutors, removal, regrowths and more off him.
Arch however was lack luster, I personally cut Sanitarium for it as Ive never been a huge fan of it. Blessing is simple but having 6 mana is not to draw one card with the minimal instants to hold up in the deck.
On a sidenote I have been trying OG Karn to close games a little faster with great success. I am a bit scared of someone taking him from me and wiping my artifacts one day.
Oh and thank you for inspiring my deck, ive had it for years now and just finished foiling it and the core idea is the same but my meta requires faster closers so Ive adjusted as such. I credited you in it and hope you like my take, the sideboard is things Ive tried out in it, but mostly just saying thanks for the ideas over the years.
Good to hear Daredevil is working for you. I haven't run Jaya since that addition, so I still don't have any thoughts on it beyond initial impressions. Have you run into any issues with Immortal Sun/walkers? Sounds like a no, but that interaction is right on the border in terms of how much anti-synergy I'm OK with.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
It's very close, I definitely see a reason to cut a walker, but daretti, ugin, karn and chandra flamecaller generally last one or two turns maximum I find and get their value the turn they are in play. Flamecaller usually lasting the longest which is where the most anti synergy would be. I will keep trying immortal sun but it tends to fall under the topor orb, solemn, godo and hoarding dragon issue. Someone will remove orb and if they dont you get so much value from it that the trade off is worth it.
Sad as I am to admit, Dominaria's Jaya Ballard doesn't look like a great fit for my list as built. The second +1 is nice, basically a slightly upgraded Daretti. The other +1 and the emblem are both pretty mediocre here - there's basically no guarantee that I'll have an instant or sorcery in hand to use the mana on, and I can't reasonably evaluate her based on her ultimate when it takes 3 turns to get there. That's a little disappointing and I'll definitely find room for old Jaya somewhere.
There really isn't much in Dominaria for Jaya so far. Karn, Scion of Urza has some potential as another 4 CMC draw engine but always getting the worse of the top 2 while ticking up leaves a lot to be desired. Jaya's Immolating Inferno is definitely on theme and works as a decent kill card as long as it's castable, which is not a sure thing. Haphazard Bombardment is interesting but too expensive and can't deal with enchantments. Fight with Fire is too expensive, though the unkicked spell is passable. The Flame of Keld takes more setup than I would like, especially with the One with Nothing on ETB. Helm of the Host is a potential combo kill with Godo but pretty bad for the deck otherwise. Really nothing that I'm dying to slot in (which is honestly kind of nice, given the number of things I'd still like to try at some point).
There's a ton of good stuff for the format in the set so far and I'm looking forward to playing with a lot of it - it's just not likely to happen in this deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
This probably won't be a pattern, but I figure I can simultaneously watch Ash vs. Evil Dead and type out a quick set review for DOM before the release for a change.
Colorless Karn, Scion of Urza - The reason that artifacts and lands are showing up before red cards this time around. Karn is much, much better when he can be played in multiples. Drawing a card at a reasonable cost is great, just less so when you're always getting the worse of the top two. Token generation is passable with the artifact count but not worth a card on its own.
Amaranthine Wall - Surprisingly solid for a lower powered deck. Forcing board stalls is great when you eventually want to clear them, it walls off lower power creatures with no additional investment, and it survives Jaya's inferno with a 2 mana investment. Not contributing towards actually winning the game is a significant downside. It's still a decent stalling creature.
Blackblade Reforged - Helps Jaya live through inferno and helps provide a win con. A straight P/T boost is decent for Jaya when you can regularly get +6/+6 or better, which this should do reliably here. The biggest selling point here is that it's going to be much cheaper than Sword of Fire and Ice while being a lot more impactful than Magebane Plate, so it's worth a look if you're after a way to keep Jaya alive to blow up the world multiple times.
Damping Sphere - Decent hate card, too hit or miss for me to be a big fan. If you see a lot of lands that tap for multiple mana in your meta or a lot of decks that chain spells together, it's a reasonable choice. Take advantage of Jaya to ditch it if it looks like you're not going to get any value out of it.
Gilded Lotus - Solid mana rock reprint. Everyone knows what this does by now, it's been a format fixture for a decade or more.
Helm of the Host - I'm not creature heavy enough to take advantage of this. Has an easy infinite with Godo if you're already running him and you're looking for one of those.
Mox Amber - Fast mana is generally good, this is a little too restrictive.
Thran Temporal Gateway - Opening up Quicksilver Amulet to artifacts makes it a lot better here. Still unlikely to be good enough unless it's cheating out an expensive walker or particularly bomb-y artifact.
Urza's Tome - Looting is good. Looting that turns into card draw by eating artifacts you no longer care about in the GY is better. Costing 3 is a lot. This should be an easily available source of card selection/advantage.
Weatherlight - Triggered ability is good, crew 3 might be tough. Crew 3 is easier than Conqueror's Galleon, might still be too high to hit reliably. Threats that dodge inferno and generate card advantage are always worth a look though.
Memorial to War - There are half a dozen better options than this unless you desperately need it to tap for red. Pass.
Zhalfirin Void - Not a bad land. There are too many better lands to make this a good choice.
Red Fight with Fire - Passable burn spell, works as a decent finisher when kicked. Probably too redundant to matter with Jaya' inferno.
The First Eruption - Too small an effect to make the mountain sac worthwhile.
The Flame of Keld - I've spent a lot of time tweaking card advantage engines to try and keep cards in hand. I like 2/3 but not enough to play One With Nothing to get there.
Haphazard Bombardment - I'd like this a lot more if it could hit enchantments. As is, it's an unreliable answer for permanents that mono-R can already answer effectively.
Jaya Ballard - The one that I've been waiting for. The instant/sorcery focus means this is a little out of place. The rummaging is great and I love that it's on a +1. It's really not building toward anything, which makes this a tough include.
Jaya's Immolating Inferno - Another possible finisher. Effectively only working when Jaya is on board makes this tough, because she already fills that role pretty well. I'd rather have an X cost burn spell that I can topdeck and win, rather than one that requires me to already be in a decent position.
Squee, the Immortal - This version of Squee falls into the trap that most of the modern phoenixes do - it's too efficient for a deck focused around a spellshaper. For most decks, coming straight to battlefield is a perk. For decks that want to discard for benefit, it makes them single shot fuel with upside. Plays nicely with a lot of the things that old Squee does, not as good for discard fuel.
On the whole, nothing that screams to be put in the deck. Weatherlight is probably the strongest option if you can crew reliably because the artifact density makes it fairly consistent card advantage. There are a couple decent filtering options for lower budget builds of the deck, none of which are likely to crack my list. I'm not anticipating any changes to this deck with this set. I'll be playing a lot of the cards elsewhere - this is unquestionably the best EDH set we've had in a while.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
A couple cards from Battlebond look promising for a Jaya deck.
Victory Chimes - Ignore the ability to gift someone else mana; that's rarely if ever going to be something you want to do in FFA commander games. A rock that untaps everyturn is just good on it's own. It has great synergy with Mind's Eye and one extra mana on each opponent's turn can be super helpful for getting top activations or just holding up enough mana to threaten Jaya activations.
Khorvath's Fury - It's Chandra, Flamecaller's 0 ability for one less mana with the ability to Sudden Impact all your opponents. It's going to lose out to Chandra if she lives for multiple turns, but it's hard to keep a walker around for many turns. Sudden Impact effects can be very good in commander too.
Stolen Strategy - Not quite as good as the Etali, Primal Storm trigger every upkeep, but being able to psedo draw a card off each opponent's deck is likely to cause all sorts of craziness.
War's Toll (reprint) is a potential Jaya card too. It cuts down instant speed responses quite a bit. I honestly couldn't say if I've tried it here in the past.
Stolen Strategy is far and away my favorite card out of BBD. Etali not surviving a 6 damage hit makes it awkward for Jaya. Sticking a similar effect on an enchantment is very welcome. I'll be trying this out in place of whichever card I replaced Vance's Blasting Cannons with.
I wish Rowan Kenrith had a little more utility on the first two abilities. As is, she doesn't do enough to bump anything in the deck no matter how much I'd enjoy having that emblem around. There's a chance I get super greedy and try her out for a game or two anyways - ultimate only takes two turns to reach and I run fairly walker heavy.
I agree that Khorvath's Fury could be a good one. Stapling damage onto filtering is generally appealing and I like having ways to trade grips full of lands and phoenix for business spells. I'm not sure yet if I'm testing this concurrently with Stolen Strategy, but I would like to try it out at some point. Being able to selectively wheel opponents' hands isn't useless either.
immediate edit: This basically ended up being a set review, so I'll just mention Bonus Round here as well - generally worse than cheaper fork effects or something like Wild Ricochet or Reiterate, unless you're running very instant/sorcery heavy. Sentinel Tower is in a similar boat. I'm still happy to get a couple solid possibilities out of only 16 new cards.
Thoughts from a budget player: Avacyn's Judgment - The non-madness effect isn't good enough to earn a spot, so this is only worthwhile if you can consistently use the madness cost. The problem is that we usually want to discard for Jaya's Inferno ability and there typically isn't enough mana left to power the madness cost to great effect in addition to the 7 mana already invested.
Cathartic Reunion/Faithless Looting/Tormenting Voice/Wild Guess - Decent cards, but they don't provide card advantage for Jaya. I found the effects were too small and replaced them with higher impact cards, though you do have some of the higher end graveyard recursion cards (e.g. Crucible of Worlds) that make these perform better.
Primal Amulet/Pyromancer's Goggles - Are probably be sub-optimal. These are usually better in a spellslinger deck and I'm not sure there are enough cards you'd want to target with them. Do you really need to copy All is Dust, Blasphemous Act, Shattering Spree, or Vandalblast? Also, the small filter effects are rarely going to be worth copying (see previous paragraph).
Thaumatic Compass/Treasure Map - I generally feel these are too slow and require too much mana investment before they come online.
@Myrmadillo - What have you found to be REALY effective? Hidden Gems? Cards that consistently over-perform?
Copying the small filter effects turned them into discard 1 draw 4 for 2 mana. It is very much worth copying with a goggles. Additionally Copying a Commit Storm or Jaya's Inferno is the primary way this deck is likely to win game. What I found and the reason I stopped playing the deck as much in the past is that Leaning on Jaya for the kill tended to be a mistake. I also think transforming a Mirage Mirror into a flipped amulet for a four mana discard one draw 6 is totally fine.
I play a TON of budget magic, I play at CK in Seattle in the 2DH format and Thaumatic Compass is honestly bonkers, if you're a budget player I would give the card another try in any control list you run. I could see in this (clearly is a non budget list) it may be slow. I think I'll want to run an Ensnaring Bridge in the list likely just to protect planeswalkers.
Thank you for the comments! Any other thoughts? I was back reading posts and saw that a lot of people have been cutting Chandra, Torch of Defiance? I stopped playing my list right around when she came out so I only got a handful of games in with the card in the list. Little surprised it's been getting cut. Seems like an FTK with a outpost siege stapled to it and should be solid... but again I only had a handful of games before setting the deck down.
Okay, I didn't realize you could skip the discard portion of Wild Guess, et al. You can't skip the discard on Faithless Looting though (which is what I was thinking for the other three spells). I'm still not convinced you have enough useful instants and sorceries for the copy effects. You are running more than me though. My deck only has 11.
Treasure Map is really a draw/filter card, not a ramp card. If you want to keep that type of utility, my favorites after Mind's Eye and Staff of Nin are Crystal Ball and Outpost Siege. I'm never disappointed to see either of those cards. If you have enough colorless lands, Endbringer can be amazing if it sticks.
My backups to Jaya are Pyrohemia and Heartless Hidetsugu. Both can dish out the damage and generally synergize with the same cards as Jaya.
My deck list is linked in my signature if you're interested. Glacial Chasm is the probably the most overlooked card that wins me the most games.
I can't comment on the planeswalkers as I only play cards I've obtained for 50 cents or less and I have yet to see a planeswalker that cheap (though think Tibalt was close at one point).
Mana wise Treasure map has seen the same number of cards by the time Crystal Ball has activated once and flips seeing 1 less card by the time the ball activates a second time. Just thinking about it does seem like a really likely cut. I'll test it a little today and report back if I draw it at all!
That 50 cent restriction is really impressive. I know how hard it can be to build on any budget restrictions and 50 cents is an impressive one. I saw you managed to trade up for a Caged Sun, If you get a Gauntlet I REALLY recommend picking up a Mirage Mirror it's versatility is so great for the red deck and transforming into a mana doubler in a similar way to Cabal Coffers for us, it's really nice.
The difference between Scry 1 on Treasure Map and Scry 2 on Crystal Ball is night and day. Treasure Map is basically a Darksteel Pendant for the first 3 turns -- a card I played for a while but cut because it under performed. I also don't like that Treasure Cove runs out of draw power when the 3 Treasures are gone, but I maybe I'm undervaluing that it can still be used as a land for mana at that point.
My local game store used to have a lot of good cards in its 15 cent bin. I found my Darksteel Plate in there. I also picked up a lot of high value commons/uncommons from older sets (e.g., Goblin Bushwhackers), which I traded on PucaTrade for cards like my Caged Sun right after it had a reprint, so the price was down.
So reporting back from games yesterday. Treasure Map Only drew it in two games one game it was late and I pitched it to a Looting effect. Another game, It was bonkers. What I did not expect was rather how I liked it for the Ramping effect. Using the 3rd Scry 1 and untapping with 4 extra mana was surprisingly nice. I suspect Myrmadilo is right and that it is too slow but I'll keep testing it for a while.
Anyone else feeling the pain of the new redirect damage rules which means that Jaya's last ability can't damage planeswalkers and only here middle ability can?
Mentally I cut Len for Steel and Skull for SoWP, Dive Fleet for Judgement and Glaciers for Bridge. I didn't miss an single card I cut when compared to how the replacements performed.
I've found SoFI, Darksteel, and SoWP to be the best protection / equipment. They blow Batterskull and Akroma's Memorial out of the water and I feel 5 forms of protection cuts back on how much game the deck has in other areas.
I may consider cutting Kozilek, the Great Distortion for Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. New K has been great honestly never disappointed to see him but Annihilator 4 and the ability to reshuffle my grave back into my library seems really relevant at times. I'm also considering Apex of Power from M19 which would likely push new K out for old K.
Thinking about running the Helm of the Host combo as another WinCon but not sure. The deck has a supersizing amount of card selection with newJaya Ballard being an all-star. I Also feel Like I may want an Obliterate somewhere in the list given the number of walkers. I have to confess I drew Candra, Torch of Defiance in one of my games and was not very impressed but that may have more to deal with the types of decks at the table at the time then anything (2 token decks at the table). Will continue to test her.
I think Distorting Lens is going to end up getting the ax soon. Karn should defiantly just be an Ugin but I only have one.
There's been thread activity while I wasn't looking. I'll hit general comments towards the end of this post, but I'm leading off with M19 thoughts. Nothing that looks truly game changing with plenty of niche options.
Red Alpine Moon - Too narrow for most metas. If you're truly being terrorized by a single land, it's not the worst choice. Most of the time, you're going to be better off running another Strip Mine variant - we have more of them than needed for the vast majority of decks.
Apex of Power - Entertaining but too expensive, even with the refund. Loses points for being worse when flashed back (thanks Past in Flames/Recoup). If you're after a hugely expensive endgame card to gas up, either Kozilek printing is better. This will probably come in at a much lower price, so potential budget option? I'll let Myrmadillo make that call.
Dark-Dweller Oracle - Card advantage for goblin packages, especially because any Jaya deck with a goblin package is running at least one Squee. Probably not a good fit outside of that scenario, given Jaya'a strength of keeping boards clear of the kinds of creatures that make good sac fodder.
Demanding Dragon - Marginally better in Jaya than in some decks, again because Jaya is good at clearing small creatures. Punisher mechanics are still bad cards in general and this is too small an effect for multiplayer EDH.
Dismissive Pyromancer - I'd rather have one of the free rummagers. Adding a cost makes it much worse, and the relatively efficient stats and burn ability don't make up for it.
Doublecast - Passable in countermagic heavy metas. Worse than other fork effects outside of that.
Goblin Trashmaster - Another good one for goblin packages, not worth consideration outside of that. Goblin packages are definitely getting some love here.
Lathliss, Dragon Queen - If you were playing mono-R dragon tribal with Jaya, maybe this is a better general choice? I don't think there are many people in that scenario. Probably not a good fit for Jaya.
Sarkhan, Fireblood - Basically just a rummager and the ultimate doesn't work nicely with typical Jaya endgame plans. Decent card for some decks, not a good home here.
Sarkhan's Unsealing - Probably my favorite red card in the set and this is absolutely not the deck for it.
Spit Flame - Worth mentioning as another recursive card and again most Jaya lists will not be ragon heavy enough to take advantage.
Chaos Wand - Too random for higher powered metas. Definitely a fun card. I'll definitely be trying this out somewhere. Not sure if somewhere is going to be Jaya yet, but it probably works as well here as anywhere.
Crucible of Worlds - Mentioning this even though it's a reprint, because this is a great card for Jaya. Powers up the general and looting/wheels. Even without fetches, this is a solid card. With fetches it's obviously great.
Meteor Golem - I generally feel like i have more instant/sorcery support than artifact or creature support, but this is not the worst 7 CMC colorless spot removal piece we've ever seen. There may be a place for this in some decks that are more able to cheat on the cost somehow.
Transmogrifying Wand - Makes me think of Calvin and Hobbes. Possibly useful for taking out large creatures? Jaya cleans up the oxen reasonably well.
Detection Tower - I'd stick with Arcane Lighthouse if you're looking for this kind of effect, and I don't think there's typically a need for more than one of them (esp if you have Expedition Map to double up on land effects in general).
Overall, nothing that I'm really dying to try. I might give Chaos Wand a shot just to play around with it, but I don't think it would be a long term include. Plenty of more niche cards if you're making use of similar themes to the ones in the set. If you don't own a Crucible, this hopefully makes it much more attainable and it's one of the cards I strongly recommend for Jaya.
On other recently discussed cards, in no particular order: Helm of the Host - I'm not a big fan of two card combos, so I have no plans to include it despite running Godo. If you do want one of those, this seems like the most compact option available, given that Godo is already a decent card here. The only real competition would be some kind of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combo if you were running a goblin package.
Glacial Chasm - Another solid defensive card that I should try out. Obviously plays nice with Crucible, not bad as a standalone card especially with the mass damage that Jaya players know and love.
Pyrohemia - I like this card a lot. If I had infinite deck space, this would definitely be in. I'm not sure what it replaces because deck space isn't infinite. Ongoing creature control and direct damage are both great effects.
Ensnaring Bridge - I like this as a lategame piece. One of the running issues against creature strats is dealing with anything that doesn't get swept by inferno, which this helps a lot with. There are enough paths to victory here that shutting down your own creature swings isn't too bad, and I tend to have enough cards in hand that this won't lock the table out and draw too much attention. I honestly don't recall if I've tried this out yet, but it's worth a look at some point.
Treasure Map - This just feels very slow to me. I don't value an activated scry 1 very highly, especially when there's an upfront cost. The flip is nice and the backside is just passable without any other treasure producers in the deck.
Thaumatic Compass - I actually prefer Kite to this. I feel like I can always use more mana in this deck and I like having the constant source of cards to discard to Jaya late game. It's definitely on the slow and grindy side, but that's how I have the entire deck set up. Both of those cards are not for everybody.
Mirage Mirror - Great card in permanent heavy, tap out control lists. I was excited when this dropped and don't think I put any real testing into it. I've liked it a lot in other lists. Having to keep some mana up for protection is a small downside which should be outweighed by the flexibility of the card. Also keep in mind it won't work well with most mana doublers (Gauntlet of Might excluded), because the color choice is not a copiable value.
@sjsilver, deck looks good. How have you liked all of the rummaging effects with the lower GY interaction?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I'm still not sold on Torch of Defiance, but the SDCC promo for her this year looks good enough that I might have to make an exception on purely aesthetic grounds.The original art is great - Magali Villenueve is one of my favorite active MtG artists - but Nielsen always knocks it out of the park.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
If you're running lighter on walkers than I am, enjoy the new toy. There's a lot of upside here.
Immortal Sun - 6
Legendary Artifact
Players can't activate Loyalty abilities of Planeswalkers.
At the beginning of your draw step, draw an additional card.
Spells you cast cost 1 less to cast.
Creatures you control get +1/+1.
*Link Here for card.
Red
Blood Sun - I love the cantrip. I don't love that it's guaranteed to heavily inconvenience me thanks to my heavy reliance on nonbasics and not guaranteed to do anything to my opponents. If you're playing a less techy manabase than I am, this is a solid include. I wouldn't run it over OG (Magus of the) Moon if you have access to that.
Brass's Bounty - Enormous ritual. I like this a lot if you have a use for the treasures beyond saccing them for mana. If it's just a ritual, this feels like too much of a do nothing card without an excessive number of lands and/or a mana doubler. It sets up a great following turn that everyone at the table knows is coming, which leaves a lot of time to disrupt and prepare.
Dire Fleet Daredevil - Standout card from the set. The downside of not being able to plan what role this fills during deck construction is massively outweighed by the utility that it offers in a multiplayer game. This is costed to be potentially eternal playable so don't sleep too long on it if you're interested. Odds are good that standard isn't the driving demand for this card.
Etali, Primal Storm - Solid finisher and Jaya already wants haste. Not surviving inferno is obviously a downside. That said, it generates so much card advantage that it probably eats a Doom Blade before that's ever relevant and a single anthem/equip gets it into safe range. This is the first 6 toughness big beater that I've been tempted by in a while, maybe since Inferno Titan.
Mutiny - Potentially decent budget removal. Sorcery hurts it a lot, as do the targeting restrictions. I wouldn't run this before Bolt.
Silverclad Ferocidons - This is the best enrage option we've seen this block. There are a few ways to do chip damage in here and it plays as nicely with inferno as any creature that dies to it. My gut feeling is that it falls into the camp of pricey answers to problem permanents, but my heart really wants to land this and Kumano, Master Yamabushi simultaneously. It has a place in slower metas and more budget builds.
Tilonalli's Summoner - Oddly enough, also a decent finisher. This deck tends to play towards the very late game and aims to have a large mana advantage over everything but the dedicated ramp decks. X-cost token production plays well with that. There's some political potential in that you can swing into one player with the 1/1 and send the elemental horde a different direction. Plays nicely with the anthem on Gauntlet effects (as well as mana doubling, obviously). I like this more here than I initially thought i was going to. I don't think there's anything that I would cut for it, though.
Artifact/Land
Arch of Orazca - Solid when drawn or tutored late, less so early game. Aside from the obvious, the ability is a overcosted for a single card. Sticking on a land cuts down on the opportunity cost quite a bit. If you have space for another colorless nonbasic, this is a reasonable consideration.
Azor's Gateway - Right off the bat, evaluate this based on the front. The back is obviously powerful and it's rarely going to get there undisrupted in a multiplayer EDH game without some kind of combo. The front is potentially good enough. Reasonably priced looting is good to have for mono-R. Looting to exile is much worse when you have various GY effects. This is tough to evaluate without playing it.
Golden Guardian - Wholly dependent on how reliably you can flip it, which is going to be deck dependent, because the back is very desirable here. There are some good tricks like fighting something small in response to a wrath, or fighting Stuffy Doll at basically any point. I have very few creatures large enough to just kill it in a fight so it's a tough sell for me.
The Immortal Sun - I talked about this briefly when it was spoiled and my thoughts are much the same. I run a little walker heavy to be really comfortable with this, though it may be good enough to overlook that anti-synergy. if you're not running walker heavy - which probably means a little more of a creature focus for closing games - this is a great card. Card draw and cost reduction are very solid effects for any controlling list, plus mono-R is already used to paying 6 for that kind of thing. I'll try this at some point, probably over a Chandra to cut down walker counts a little, and would recommend at least giving it a trial.
Orazca Relic - Off-brand Mind Stone. I like mana rocks that can cycle late, I don't so much like that you can't play this as early development and still get the effect. Three mana for a one mana rock is a poor return as well. If you're looking for something past Mind Stone, Commander's Sphere, and Hedron Archive, this is probably the next best in category. That's probably going too deep on those and I would stick to other 2 CMC rocks.
Silent Gravestone - Decent GY hate. While I play out of the yard pretty heavily, most of it doesn't involve targeted effects. Reanimation in EDH is heavily weighted towards targeted spells and abilities, so this is a nice roadblock that can be cashed in for a more permanent solution and replacement card late. This may be a better option than Relic of Progenitus for a GY heavy Jaya list, and a little worse to even with Tormod's Crypt.
The rundown: Dire Fleet Daredevil is one of the best cards printed for this deck in some time so I'm definitely finding a spot for that. Immortal Sun has a lot going for it despite the high CMC and is another potential include. Beyond those two, I run into the same problem I always have with new cards: I have to cut an old card to make room for them. There are a few that I would consider if I was building from scratch, specifically Azor's Gateway and Silent Gravestone, that are tough to fit into a six year old list.
As usual, let me know if there's something that I'm missing or that you're curious what I think about. Red this set is geared very midrange and a lot of the high impact EDH cards are multicolored so there aren't a ton of borderline cards.
I have the same problem as you Weebo. This mono red shell has been here for years...it is tough to find cuts.
Mt thinking is that the most common types of instant and sorceries you are going to see in graveyards are ramp spells, tutors, and removal. Every once in a while, somebody will have a crazy bomb spell in the graveyard to steal, like a Time Warp or Insurrection; but those will be rare. I think that paying 5 for a 2/1 plus Cultivate or 4 for a 2/1 plus Demonic Tutor seems strong. Ofsource, there is only so much I can say about the card until it comes out and we actually get to play with it.
Arch however was lack luster, I personally cut Sanitarium for it as Ive never been a huge fan of it. Blessing is simple but having 6 mana is not to draw one card with the minimal instants to hold up in the deck.
On a sidenote I have been trying OG Karn to close games a little faster with great success. I am a bit scared of someone taking him from me and wiping my artifacts one day.
Oh and thank you for inspiring my deck, ive had it for years now and just finished foiling it and the core idea is the same but my meta requires faster closers so Ive adjusted as such. I credited you in it and hope you like my take, the sideboard is things Ive tried out in it, but mostly just saying thanks for the ideas over the years.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jaya-ballard-fiery-control/
There really isn't much in Dominaria for Jaya so far. Karn, Scion of Urza has some potential as another 4 CMC draw engine but always getting the worse of the top 2 while ticking up leaves a lot to be desired. Jaya's Immolating Inferno is definitely on theme and works as a decent kill card as long as it's castable, which is not a sure thing. Haphazard Bombardment is interesting but too expensive and can't deal with enchantments. Fight with Fire is too expensive, though the unkicked spell is passable. The Flame of Keld takes more setup than I would like, especially with the One with Nothing on ETB. Helm of the Host is a potential combo kill with Godo but pretty bad for the deck otherwise. Really nothing that I'm dying to slot in (which is honestly kind of nice, given the number of things I'd still like to try at some point).
There's a ton of good stuff for the format in the set so far and I'm looking forward to playing with a lot of it - it's just not likely to happen in this deck.
Colorless
Karn, Scion of Urza - The reason that artifacts and lands are showing up before red cards this time around. Karn is much, much better when he can be played in multiples. Drawing a card at a reasonable cost is great, just less so when you're always getting the worse of the top two. Token generation is passable with the artifact count but not worth a card on its own.
Amaranthine Wall - Surprisingly solid for a lower powered deck. Forcing board stalls is great when you eventually want to clear them, it walls off lower power creatures with no additional investment, and it survives Jaya's inferno with a 2 mana investment. Not contributing towards actually winning the game is a significant downside. It's still a decent stalling creature.
Blackblade Reforged - Helps Jaya live through inferno and helps provide a win con. A straight P/T boost is decent for Jaya when you can regularly get +6/+6 or better, which this should do reliably here. The biggest selling point here is that it's going to be much cheaper than Sword of Fire and Ice while being a lot more impactful than Magebane Plate, so it's worth a look if you're after a way to keep Jaya alive to blow up the world multiple times.
Damping Sphere - Decent hate card, too hit or miss for me to be a big fan. If you see a lot of lands that tap for multiple mana in your meta or a lot of decks that chain spells together, it's a reasonable choice. Take advantage of Jaya to ditch it if it looks like you're not going to get any value out of it.
Gilded Lotus - Solid mana rock reprint. Everyone knows what this does by now, it's been a format fixture for a decade or more.
Helm of the Host - I'm not creature heavy enough to take advantage of this. Has an easy infinite with Godo if you're already running him and you're looking for one of those.
Mox Amber - Fast mana is generally good, this is a little too restrictive.
Thran Temporal Gateway - Opening up Quicksilver Amulet to artifacts makes it a lot better here. Still unlikely to be good enough unless it's cheating out an expensive walker or particularly bomb-y artifact.
Urza's Tome - Looting is good. Looting that turns into card draw by eating artifacts you no longer care about in the GY is better. Costing 3 is a lot. This should be an easily available source of card selection/advantage.
Weatherlight - Triggered ability is good, crew 3 might be tough. Crew 3 is easier than Conqueror's Galleon, might still be too high to hit reliably. Threats that dodge inferno and generate card advantage are always worth a look though.
Memorial to War - There are half a dozen better options than this unless you desperately need it to tap for red. Pass.
Zhalfirin Void - Not a bad land. There are too many better lands to make this a good choice.
Red
Fight with Fire - Passable burn spell, works as a decent finisher when kicked. Probably too redundant to matter with Jaya' inferno.
The First Eruption - Too small an effect to make the mountain sac worthwhile.
The Flame of Keld - I've spent a lot of time tweaking card advantage engines to try and keep cards in hand. I like 2/3 but not enough to play One With Nothing to get there.
Ghitu Chronicler - Effect is good, sticking it on a creature is not desirable here. This comes in behind Past in Flames and Recoup.
Haphazard Bombardment - I'd like this a lot more if it could hit enchantments. As is, it's an unreliable answer for permanents that mono-R can already answer effectively.
Jaya Ballard - The one that I've been waiting for. The instant/sorcery focus means this is a little out of place. The rummaging is great and I love that it's on a +1. It's really not building toward anything, which makes this a tough include.
Jaya's Immolating Inferno - Another possible finisher. Effectively only working when Jaya is on board makes this tough, because she already fills that role pretty well. I'd rather have an X cost burn spell that I can topdeck and win, rather than one that requires me to already be in a decent position.
Squee, the Immortal - This version of Squee falls into the trap that most of the modern phoenixes do - it's too efficient for a deck focused around a spellshaper. For most decks, coming straight to battlefield is a perk. For decks that want to discard for benefit, it makes them single shot fuel with upside. Plays nicely with a lot of the things that old Squee does, not as good for discard fuel.
On the whole, nothing that screams to be put in the deck. Weatherlight is probably the strongest option if you can crew reliably because the artifact density makes it fairly consistent card advantage. There are a couple decent filtering options for lower budget builds of the deck, none of which are likely to crack my list. I'm not anticipating any changes to this deck with this set. I'll be playing a lot of the cards elsewhere - this is unquestionably the best EDH set we've had in a while.
Victory Chimes - Ignore the ability to gift someone else mana; that's rarely if ever going to be something you want to do in FFA commander games. A rock that untaps everyturn is just good on it's own. It has great synergy with Mind's Eye and one extra mana on each opponent's turn can be super helpful for getting top activations or just holding up enough mana to threaten Jaya activations.
Khorvath's Fury - It's Chandra, Flamecaller's 0 ability for one less mana with the ability to Sudden Impact all your opponents. It's going to lose out to Chandra if she lives for multiple turns, but it's hard to keep a walker around for many turns. Sudden Impact effects can be very good in commander too.
Stolen Strategy - Not quite as good as the Etali, Primal Storm trigger every upkeep, but being able to psedo draw a card off each opponent's deck is likely to cause all sorts of craziness.
Mind's Eye
Magmatic Force
Chain Lightning
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
Stolen Strategy is far and away my favorite card out of BBD. Etali not surviving a 6 damage hit makes it awkward for Jaya. Sticking a similar effect on an enchantment is very welcome. I'll be trying this out in place of whichever card I replaced Vance's Blasting Cannons with.
I wish Rowan Kenrith had a little more utility on the first two abilities. As is, she doesn't do enough to bump anything in the deck no matter how much I'd enjoy having that emblem around. There's a chance I get super greedy and try her out for a game or two anyways - ultimate only takes two turns to reach and I run fairly walker heavy.
I agree that Khorvath's Fury could be a good one. Stapling damage onto filtering is generally appealing and I like having ways to trade grips full of lands and phoenix for business spells. I'm not sure yet if I'm testing this concurrently with Stolen Strategy, but I would like to try it out at some point. Being able to selectively wheel opponents' hands isn't useless either.
immediate edit: This basically ended up being a set review, so I'll just mention Bonus Round here as well - generally worse than cheaper fork effects or something like Wild Ricochet or Reiterate, unless you're running very instant/sorcery heavy. Sentinel Tower is in a similar boat. I'm still happy to get a couple solid possibilities out of only 16 new cards.
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Creatures (7)
1x Anger
1x Dire Fleet Daredevil
1x Godo, Bandit Warlord
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob
Planeswalker (7)
1x Chandra Ablaze
1x Chandra, Flamecaller
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Daretti, Scrap Savant
1x Jaya Ballard
1x Karn Liberated
1x Karn, Scion of Urza
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Instant (6)
1x Chaos Warp
1x Comet Storm
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Reiterate
1x Skred
Sorcery (16)
1x All is Dust
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Cathartic Reunion
1x Faithless Looting
1x Fiery Confluence
1x Gamble
1x Jaya's Immolating Inferno
1x Mana Geyser
1x Past in Flames
1x Reforge the Soul
1x Rolling Earthquake
1x Shattering Spree
1x Tormenting Voice
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Wild Guess
1x Vandalblast
1x Blood Moon
1x Repercussion
Artifact (23)
1x Alhammarret's Archive
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Caged Sun
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Darksteel Plate
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Expedition Map
1x Gauntlet of Power
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Memory Jar
1x Mind's Eye
1x Mind Stone
1x Mirage Mirror
1x Pyromancer's Goggles
1x Sculpting Steel
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of War and Peace
1x Thaumatic Compass
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Treasure Map
Maze Land (2)
1x Maze of Ith
1x Glacial Chasm
1x BloodStained Mire
1x Buried Ruin
1x Geier Reach Sanitarium
1x Hanweir Battlements
1x Inventors' Fair
1x Kher Keep
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Petrified Field
1x Scavenger Grounds
21x Snow-Covered Mountain
1x Strip Mine
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1x Vesuva
Recent Changes:
+ Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
+ Karn, Scion of Urza
+ Reforge the Soul
+ Rolling Earthquake
+2 Snow-Covered Mountain
+ Glacial Chasm
- Goblin Welder
- Kozilek, the Great Distortion
- Commune with Lava
- Stolen Strategy
- Commander's Sphere
- Primal Amulet
- Command Beacon
UBRNicol Bolas, the RavagerUBR
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
2DH / Budget Commanders:
WMangara of Corondor 2DHW
BRXantcha, Sleeper Agent 2DHBR
Avacyn's Judgment - The non-madness effect isn't good enough to earn a spot, so this is only worthwhile if you can consistently use the madness cost. The problem is that we usually want to discard for Jaya's Inferno ability and there typically isn't enough mana left to power the madness cost to great effect in addition to the 7 mana already invested.
Cathartic Reunion/Faithless Looting/Tormenting Voice/Wild Guess - Decent cards, but they don't provide card advantage for Jaya. I found the effects were too small and replaced them with higher impact cards, though you do have some of the higher end graveyard recursion cards (e.g. Crucible of Worlds) that make these perform better.
Primal Amulet/Pyromancer's Goggles - Are probably be sub-optimal. These are usually better in a spellslinger deck and I'm not sure there are enough cards you'd want to target with them. Do you really need to copy All is Dust, Blasphemous Act, Shattering Spree, or Vandalblast? Also, the small filter effects are rarely going to be worth copying (see previous paragraph).
Thaumatic Compass/Treasure Map - I generally feel these are too slow and require too much mana investment before they come online.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
Copying the small filter effects turned them into discard 1 draw 4 for 2 mana. It is very much worth copying with a goggles. Additionally Copying a Commit Storm or Jaya's Inferno is the primary way this deck is likely to win game. What I found and the reason I stopped playing the deck as much in the past is that Leaning on Jaya for the kill tended to be a mistake. I also think transforming a Mirage Mirror into a flipped amulet for a four mana discard one draw 6 is totally fine.
I've never played with Treasure Map so I can't really comment but I'm going to try it out before perhaps moving to Thought Vessel,Fire Diamond, or Basalt Monolith.
I play a TON of budget magic, I play at CK in Seattle in the 2DH format and Thaumatic Compass is honestly bonkers, if you're a budget player I would give the card another try in any control list you run. I could see in this (clearly is a non budget list) it may be slow. I think I'll want to run an
Ensnaring Bridge in the list likely just to protect planeswalkers.
Thank you for the comments! Any other thoughts? I was back reading posts and saw that a lot of people have been cutting Chandra, Torch of Defiance? I stopped playing my list right around when she came out so I only got a handful of games in with the card in the list. Little surprised it's been getting cut. Seems like an FTK with a outpost siege stapled to it and should be solid... but again I only had a handful of games before setting the deck down.
Edit: has anyone been running the Helm of the Host combo given how we all seem to run Godo, Bandit Warlord? Not sure if it's worth running but seems solid as a 11 mana I win button or value train with Solemn Simulacrum or Dire Fleet Daredevil
UBRNicol Bolas, the RavagerUBR
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
2DH / Budget Commanders:
WMangara of Corondor 2DHW
BRXantcha, Sleeper Agent 2DHBR
Treasure Map is really a draw/filter card, not a ramp card. If you want to keep that type of utility, my favorites after Mind's Eye and Staff of Nin are Crystal Ball and Outpost Siege. I'm never disappointed to see either of those cards. If you have enough colorless lands, Endbringer can be amazing if it sticks.
Thaumatic Compass is basically a Journeyer's Kite that transforms into a Maze of Ith late game. As much as I'd like a Maze of Ith, I've never been a fan of the mana requirements for Journeyer's Kite.
My backups to Jaya are Pyrohemia and Heartless Hidetsugu. Both can dish out the damage and generally synergize with the same cards as Jaya.
My deck list is linked in my signature if you're interested. Glacial Chasm is the probably the most overlooked card that wins me the most games.
I can't comment on the planeswalkers as I only play cards I've obtained for 50 cents or less and I have yet to see a planeswalker that cheap (though think Tibalt was close at one point).
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
Mana wise Treasure map has seen the same number of cards by the time Crystal Ball has activated once and flips seeing 1 less card by the time the ball activates a second time. Just thinking about it does seem like a really likely cut. I'll test it a little today and report back if I draw it at all!
That 50 cent restriction is really impressive. I know how hard it can be to build on any budget restrictions and 50 cents is an impressive one. I saw you managed to trade up for a Caged Sun, If you get a Gauntlet I REALLY recommend picking up a Mirage Mirror it's versatility is so great for the red deck and transforming into a mana doubler in a similar way to Cabal Coffers for us, it's really nice.
UBRNicol Bolas, the RavagerUBR
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
2DH / Budget Commanders:
WMangara of Corondor 2DHW
BRXantcha, Sleeper Agent 2DHBR
My local game store used to have a lot of good cards in its 15 cent bin. I found my Darksteel Plate in there. I also picked up a lot of high value commons/uncommons from older sets (e.g., Goblin Bushwhackers), which I traded on PucaTrade for cards like my Caged Sun right after it had a reprint, so the price was down.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
Anyone else feeling the pain of the new redirect damage rules which means that Jaya's last ability can't damage planeswalkers and only here middle ability can?
I made some cuts and changes in the middle of the day:
+ Sculpting Steel
+ Ensnaring Bridge
+ Dire Fleet Daredevil
+ Sword of War and Peace
- Extraplanar Lens
- Avacyn's Judgment
- Thawing Glaciers
- Batterskull
Mentally I cut Len for Steel and Skull for SoWP, Dive Fleet for Judgement and Glaciers for Bridge. I didn't miss an single card I cut when compared to how the replacements performed.
I've found SoFI, Darksteel, and SoWP to be the best protection / equipment. They blow Batterskull and Akroma's Memorial out of the water and I feel 5 forms of protection cuts back on how much game the deck has in other areas.
I may consider cutting Kozilek, the Great Distortion for Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. New K has been great honestly never disappointed to see him but Annihilator 4 and the ability to reshuffle my grave back into my library seems really relevant at times. I'm also considering Apex of Power from M19 which would likely push new K out for old K.
Thinking about running the Helm of the Host combo as another WinCon but not sure. The deck has a supersizing amount of card selection with new Jaya Ballard being an all-star. I Also feel Like I may want an Obliterate somewhere in the list given the number of walkers. I have to confess I drew Candra, Torch of Defiance in one of my games and was not very impressed but that may have more to deal with the types of decks at the table at the time then anything (2 token decks at the table). Will continue to test her.
I think Distorting Lens is going to end up getting the ax soon. Karn should defiantly just be an Ugin but I only have one.
I sort of want to replace Staff of Nin with Alhammarret's Archive but not sure yet.
Any other All-Stars or Gems from peoples decks please give a shout out or additional comments on the list as it is.
UBRNicol Bolas, the RavagerUBR
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
2DH / Budget Commanders:
WMangara of Corondor 2DHW
BRXantcha, Sleeper Agent 2DHBR
Red
Alpine Moon - Too narrow for most metas. If you're truly being terrorized by a single land, it's not the worst choice. Most of the time, you're going to be better off running another Strip Mine variant - we have more of them than needed for the vast majority of decks.
Apex of Power - Entertaining but too expensive, even with the refund. Loses points for being worse when flashed back (thanks Past in Flames/Recoup). If you're after a hugely expensive endgame card to gas up, either Kozilek printing is better. This will probably come in at a much lower price, so potential budget option? I'll let Myrmadillo make that call.
Dark-Dweller Oracle - Card advantage for goblin packages, especially because any Jaya deck with a goblin package is running at least one Squee. Probably not a good fit outside of that scenario, given Jaya'a strength of keeping boards clear of the kinds of creatures that make good sac fodder.
Demanding Dragon - Marginally better in Jaya than in some decks, again because Jaya is good at clearing small creatures. Punisher mechanics are still bad cards in general and this is too small an effect for multiplayer EDH.
Dismissive Pyromancer - I'd rather have one of the free rummagers. Adding a cost makes it much worse, and the relatively efficient stats and burn ability don't make up for it.
Doublecast - Passable in countermagic heavy metas. Worse than other fork effects outside of that.
Goblin Trashmaster - Another good one for goblin packages, not worth consideration outside of that. Goblin packages are definitely getting some love here.
Lathliss, Dragon Queen - If you were playing mono-R dragon tribal with Jaya, maybe this is a better general choice? I don't think there are many people in that scenario. Probably not a good fit for Jaya.
Sarkhan, Fireblood - Basically just a rummager and the ultimate doesn't work nicely with typical Jaya endgame plans. Decent card for some decks, not a good home here.
Sarkhan's Unsealing - Probably my favorite red card in the set and this is absolutely not the deck for it.
Spit Flame - Worth mentioning as another recursive card and again most Jaya lists will not be ragon heavy enough to take advantage.
Sarkhan, Dragonsoul - Basically a suspend Dragonstorm with some upside? Dragons dragons dragons etc.
Artifact/Land
Amulet of Safekeeping - Weird stapled together effects. Neither seems particularly good for a deck that can sweep tokens reliably.
Arcane Encyclopedia - Getting closer to playable mono-R draw. Still 6 mana for the first card, so somewhere below Staff of Nin/The Immortal Sun in my book.
Chaos Wand - Too random for higher powered metas. Definitely a fun card. I'll definitely be trying this out somewhere. Not sure if somewhere is going to be Jaya yet, but it probably works as well here as anywhere.
Crucible of Worlds - Mentioning this even though it's a reprint, because this is a great card for Jaya. Powers up the general and looting/wheels. Even without fetches, this is a solid card. With fetches it's obviously great.
Dragon's Hoard - Dragons dragons dragons dragons dragons dragons dragons
Field Creeper - It's like a more aggressive Painter's Servant and that card is banned so it must be great.
Meteor Golem - I generally feel like i have more instant/sorcery support than artifact or creature support, but this is not the worst 7 CMC colorless spot removal piece we've ever seen. There may be a place for this in some decks that are more able to cheat on the cost somehow.
Transmogrifying Wand - Makes me think of Calvin and Hobbes. Possibly useful for taking out large creatures? Jaya cleans up the oxen reasonably well.
Detection Tower - I'd stick with Arcane Lighthouse if you're looking for this kind of effect, and I don't think there's typically a need for more than one of them (esp if you have Expedition Map to double up on land effects in general).
Overall, nothing that I'm really dying to try. I might give Chaos Wand a shot just to play around with it, but I don't think it would be a long term include. Plenty of more niche cards if you're making use of similar themes to the ones in the set. If you don't own a Crucible, this hopefully makes it much more attainable and it's one of the cards I strongly recommend for Jaya.
On other recently discussed cards, in no particular order:
Helm of the Host - I'm not a big fan of two card combos, so I have no plans to include it despite running Godo. If you do want one of those, this seems like the most compact option available, given that Godo is already a decent card here. The only real competition would be some kind of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combo if you were running a goblin package.
Glacial Chasm - Another solid defensive card that I should try out. Obviously plays nice with Crucible, not bad as a standalone card especially with the mass damage that Jaya players know and love.
Pyrohemia - I like this card a lot. If I had infinite deck space, this would definitely be in. I'm not sure what it replaces because deck space isn't infinite. Ongoing creature control and direct damage are both great effects.
Ensnaring Bridge - I like this as a lategame piece. One of the running issues against creature strats is dealing with anything that doesn't get swept by inferno, which this helps a lot with. There are enough paths to victory here that shutting down your own creature swings isn't too bad, and I tend to have enough cards in hand that this won't lock the table out and draw too much attention. I honestly don't recall if I've tried this out yet, but it's worth a look at some point.
Treasure Map - This just feels very slow to me. I don't value an activated scry 1 very highly, especially when there's an upfront cost. The flip is nice and the backside is just passable without any other treasure producers in the deck.
Thaumatic Compass - I actually prefer Kite to this. I feel like I can always use more mana in this deck and I like having the constant source of cards to discard to Jaya late game. It's definitely on the slow and grindy side, but that's how I have the entire deck set up. Both of those cards are not for everybody.
Mirage Mirror - Great card in permanent heavy, tap out control lists. I was excited when this dropped and don't think I put any real testing into it. I've liked it a lot in other lists. Having to keep some mana up for protection is a small downside which should be outweighed by the flexibility of the card. Also keep in mind it won't work well with most mana doublers (Gauntlet of Might excluded), because the color choice is not a copiable value.
@sjsilver, deck looks good. How have you liked all of the rummaging effects with the lower GY interaction?