I'm sure Indomitable Creativity can do some serious work in a tuned deck. Likely not for Jaya, but a deck with a lot of tokens (either creatures or artifacts), it would shine. I'm tempted to make a deck, just for this card
But if you choose to test it, let us know how it goes. I am always curious.
Yeah I will for sure once the set comes out on MTGO. After my initiall tests online I decided that I do the most in games when I can hit one or two rocks in the beginning. I've added a few more bringing up my count to 14 or so. What do y'all think/how many do you run.
If anyone was curious about the basic mountain art choice:
So this isn't entirely a vanity post, here are my thoughts on playable stuff out of AER. As usual, I'm going to focus on stuff that seems more playable and welcome people telling me if I missed something.
Red Indomitable Creativity - It's definitely a powerful effect, but the unpredictable nature makes it tough to evaluate. I would be a little wary about pointing this towards my opponents and there are definitely some misses within my own deck. The possibility of turning late mana rocks/kobold tokens/whatever else into gas is appealing and I appreciate that it destroys instead of exiling. The art is also good enough to tempt me. Final verdict: who knows? Let me know if you try it.
Kari Zev's Expertise - Mostly notable for being one of the better threaten effects in recent memory if you're playing enough little stuff. I'm not sure this is top of the heap and I'm not running any of them as is, but it's a solid card.
Pia's Revolution - Already talked about in this thread a bit thanks to being one of the early spoils. This is mostly going to be some incidental damage to random opponents, outside of parleying it into occasional recursion. I don't think it's high enough impact to make the cut.
Quicksmith Rebel - If the effect stuck around longer than the creature, it would be much more interesting. As it is, I think it's a little too fragile despite being a desirable effect. I think Ghirapur Aether Grid is similar and generally better for Jaya if you want an effect like this.
Release the Gremlins - Solid artifact hate card. Worse than Vandalblast, which doesn't actually say much about it. I think I rate this behind Vandalblast and Shattering Spree, which makes it reasonable as the third piece of mass artifact hate.
Artifact Aethersphere Harvester - I like the idea of vehicles in Jaya despite not having tried any of them. I would run Smuggler's Copter before this unless you're including more energy support.
Cogwork Assembler - A little expensive for my taste. That's a lot of mana for what you get out of it. The most appealing copy target, mana doublers, don't actually net you mana until you have more than enough lands down (12 mountains with a doubler down before there's a benefit to copying one). The barrier gets higher if you're trying to do it all in one turn, which you might want from time to time because it's about as vulnerable as a creature can be.
Daredevil Dragster - Not terrible, but not good. I'd probably stick this at 4th best vehicle for Jaya, after Copter, Harvester, and Skysovereign. It's not reliable enough card draw for me, but there are certainly worse choices if you want to try out a vehicle.
Gonti's Aether Heart - Very delayed Time Warp. It's decent if you have other uses for energy in your list. I wouldn't expect to get a turn out of it if it's the only energy card you have which makes it a little bit of a dead card.
Heart of Kiran - Crew 3 means no crewing by unassisted Jaya, which is rough. The creature body on its own isn't very impressive for this format and the planeswalker ability is nowhere near reliable enough. You have to be going pretty deep on vehicles for this to make the cut.
Hope of Ghirapur - Anti-counter card. If you're in a heavy counter or spell based combo meta, I could see this being decent. That said, a meta like that is going to be pretty rough for Jaya like I have her built anyways.
Inspiring Statuary - I could see this being good. If you have a decent concentration of non-mana rock artifacts, this is going to be as good or better than Worn Powerstone for spells. Not being able to use it for Jaya activations or artifacts might make it too restrictive.
Paradox Engine - Card's borderline busted. You can probably figure out for yourself if this is a good fit or not. While untapping Jaya is a small perk, the card isn't worth it for that alone thanks to the discard cost on her abilities.
Planar Bridge - Expensive activation. Jaya runs permanent heavy enough that this is very powerful if you think it's going to stick. If you're only going to get one activation out of it reliably, I would think long and hard before including this over something like Ring of Three Wishes, which I'm already not tempted by.
Scrap Trawler - There's a lot of potential card advantage here and I always appreciate more GY plays. I also like death triggers in Jaya because they're more or less a sure thing.
Treasure Keeper - Again with the death trigger, but I don't like this as much. It's guaranteed to replace itself but the body is nothing to write home about.
Untethered Express - This is a decent vehicle. It survives sorcery speed removal and Jaya's infernos while growing into a respectable beater. I would probably put this into the top 3 vehicles if you're looking for one of those.
Walking Ballista - Direct damage is a lot more tempting in a deck not already full of it. I'm a big fan of this set in general, but I don't think there's anything that I'm really dying to try in Jaya. Top three picks are Indomitable Creativity, Inspiring Statuary, and Scrap Trawler, which are all cards with some potential and not snap includes. The more likely change out of this set is trying out Smuggler's Copter, now that the banning has dropped prices on them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
1) If Scrap Trawler and a second artifact are put into the graveyard simultaneously, does the trigger fire twice? In other words, do you get to return 2 artifacts to your hand?
2) Since Scrap Trawler's trigger goes on the stack when it is "put into the graveyard," is there anything preventing you from returning Scrap Trawler to your hand off off its own trigger?
1) If Scrap Trawler and a second artifact are put into the graveyard simultaneously, does the trigger fire twice? In other words, do you get to return 2 artifacts to your hand?
2) Since Scrap Trawler's trigger goes on the stack when it is "put into the graveyard," is there anything preventing you from returning Scrap Trawler to your hand off off its own trigger?
1) Yes.
2) Yeah, the CMC clause specifying it must have a CMC less than the artifact that triggered Trawler. Edit: So if Hedron Archive and Trawler die simultaneously, the trigger from the Archive could return Trawler, but Trawler's would have to return an artifact with CMC 2 or less.
Since my first post on this thread over 2.5 years ago, I've replaced 36 of the cards in my original deck. Excluding 6 basic mountains that were replaced by non-basic lands, 43% of the cards (30 out of 70) in my deck have changed. In addition, I've cycled another 14 cards in and out of my deck at various points.
Due to a balance accumulated on PucaTrade, I recently acquired some higher value cards. (Don't worry, measuring my PucaTrade activity as a whole I still managed to keep every card under my 50 cents per card budget restriction. :D) Here are my latest upgrades:
At this point, I'm pleased with state of my deck. It plays well, is an appropriate level for my opponents, and, for the budget I'm willing to spend, I think it is pretty close to as good as I can make it. Anger is the only card I'm still missing that I'd like to have in the deck, but Fervor is a reasonable substitute for the time being.
Mana Geyser and Reiterate can go infinite without any other card needed, you just need some way to spend the mana.
Myrmadillo , I was looking at cards a few days ago and noticed a few mana rocks that I'm even thinking about for my own Jaya deck. Those being Seer's Lantern and Magnifying Glass, I'm more intrigued by the glass then the lanturn, because it can actually draw cards as opposed to just scrying. I wont if either of these cards wouldn't just be strict upgrades over some of your manarocks.
Has anyone done much testing with Extraplanar Lens and can offer an opinion? I don't like opening myself up for to a 2-for-1, but double mana is really powerful.
I have used Extraplanar Lens in this deck. For me, it almost always was a disastrous card to play. That said, my main squeeze is Mishra, so my playgroup has a fair bit of artifact destruction throughout - but extraplanar lens almost always failed spectacularly. In the late game, its pretty much useless, and in the early game its a massive risk. If it pays off, the rewards early are pretty immense, but more often than not, it comes up short. I much prefer effects like Caged Sun or Gauntlet of Power, while they are more expensive, they tend to accomplish more for me in most games.
Even for a budget deck Magnifying Glass is pretty terrible. As a 3-for-1 mana rock, it competes with Unstable Obelisk, Commander's Sphere, and Pristine Talisman, all of which I'd rather have. It's secondary ability costs 7 mana to draw a single card (counting the mana lost by tapping it). You might as well go for Tower of Fortunes at that point.
My comment does neglect that you can split the mana cost across two turns, but I generally don't have that much mana to spare for a single card. Now that I have Goblin Welder in my deck, the Clue Tokens might have good alternate uses, but I'm not still not convinced.
As for Seer's Lantern, before I accumulated some of my better card draw, I was considering putting Darksteel Pendant in my deck. It never made the cut because Scry 1 just never seemed powerful enough. Seer's Lantern costs twice as much for the same action.
In recent years, they've printed so many good 3 CMC mana rocks that the stapled on ability really has to synergize or be something special to be worth playing. If you do give either a try, I'd be interested in hearing the results.
I have played Extraplanar Lens in many, many decks. It rarely turns out well; it's usually played best when you've got a ton of land and are about to make a big play. I don't really ever expect it to stick, though that might be because I play in a fairly anti-artifact/enchantment environment.
Has anyone done much testing with Extraplanar Lens and can offer an opinion? I don't like opening myself up for to a 2-for-1, but double mana is really powerful.
I play all 4 Mana doubling effects in my list. I really enjoy the lens. Like you said doubling mana is great. Being 2-for-1'd is not fun, but just losing one land in a multiplayer game is well worth the power that is has to offer.
I still play extraplanar lens, though it is definitely on the chopping block. Sometimes it is great, other times it is really awkward and sets me back so much I lose any chance for the game.
Mimic Vat keeps on being cut and then finding a spot in my deck. Only running 12 creatures, I like snatching my opponents ETB critters. Jaya kills a lot of things so it usually doesn't have a hard time finding a target. How do you guys/gals feel about Mimic Vat.
Always when I look at it it seems just ok. When in play it is almost always awesome, so I'll definitely keep it. It is brutal with a solemn or burnished hart under it.
I try to remain open to all options. Sometimes it's just straight Jaya damage. Sometimes it's double damage. Sometimes it's a win with Repercussion or Vicious Shadows, like Myrmadillo said. Sometimes it's a win with Stuffy Doll or Comet Storm. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, I get a win with Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. Once, it was a win with Molten Psyche.
I guess since I run it like it's a control deck (the commander is a boardwipe, after all), I gotta stay flexible.
I try to remain open to all options. Sometimes it's just straight Jaya damage. Sometimes it's double damage. Sometimes it's a win with Repercussion or Vicious Shadows, like Myrmadillo said. Sometimes it's a win with Stuffy Doll or Comet Storm. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, I get a win with Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. Once, it was a win with Molten Psyche.
I guess since I run it like it's a control deck (the commander is a boardwipe, after all), I gotta stay flexible.
More or less the same for me. Most often, it's some kind of direct damage. I've also had wins beating down with creatures (I run enough equipment to make that viable option) and a couple times via mill, when an opponent was outdrawing me and I could chain a few wheels together.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I try to remain open to all options. Sometimes it's just straight Jaya damage. Sometimes it's double damage. Sometimes it's a win with Repercussion or Vicious Shadows, like Myrmadillo said. Sometimes it's a win with Stuffy Doll or Comet Storm. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, I get a win with Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. Once, it was a win with Molten Psyche.
I guess since I run it like it's a control deck (the commander is a boardwipe, after all), I gotta stay flexible.
More or less the same for me. Most often, it's some kind of direct damage. I've also had wins beating down with creatures (I run enough equipment to make that viable option) and a couple times via mill, when an opponent was outdrawing me and I could chain a few wheels together.
My deck has Distorting Lens (w/ Jaya's 1st ability), Unstable Obelisk, and Steel Hellkite to destroy enchantments. I also rely on other players at the table if there is something I have difficulty dealing with.
Spine of Ish Sah isn't instant speed, but it is reusable with Goblin Welder and Trading Post. Argentum Armor is extremely mana intensive, but you could almost kill someone with commander damage if Jaya managed to equip it.
So this isn't entirely a vanity post, here are my thoughts on playable stuff out of AER. As usual, I'm going to focus on stuff that seems more playable and welcome people telling me if I missed something.
Red
Indomitable Creativity - It's definitely a powerful effect, but the unpredictable nature makes it tough to evaluate. I would be a little wary about pointing this towards my opponents and there are definitely some misses within my own deck. The possibility of turning late mana rocks/kobold tokens/whatever else into gas is appealing and I appreciate that it destroys instead of exiling. The art is also good enough to tempt me. Final verdict: who knows? Let me know if you try it.
Kari Zev's Expertise - Mostly notable for being one of the better threaten effects in recent memory if you're playing enough little stuff. I'm not sure this is top of the heap and I'm not running any of them as is, but it's a solid card.
Pia's Revolution - Already talked about in this thread a bit thanks to being one of the early spoils. This is mostly going to be some incidental damage to random opponents, outside of parleying it into occasional recursion. I don't think it's high enough impact to make the cut.
Quicksmith Rebel - If the effect stuck around longer than the creature, it would be much more interesting. As it is, I think it's a little too fragile despite being a desirable effect. I think Ghirapur Aether Grid is similar and generally better for Jaya if you want an effect like this.
Release the Gremlins - Solid artifact hate card. Worse than Vandalblast, which doesn't actually say much about it. I think I rate this behind Vandalblast and Shattering Spree, which makes it reasonable as the third piece of mass artifact hate.
Artifact
Aethersphere Harvester - I like the idea of vehicles in Jaya despite not having tried any of them. I would run Smuggler's Copter before this unless you're including more energy support.
Cogwork Assembler - A little expensive for my taste. That's a lot of mana for what you get out of it. The most appealing copy target, mana doublers, don't actually net you mana until you have more than enough lands down (12 mountains with a doubler down before there's a benefit to copying one). The barrier gets higher if you're trying to do it all in one turn, which you might want from time to time because it's about as vulnerable as a creature can be.
Daredevil Dragster - Not terrible, but not good. I'd probably stick this at 4th best vehicle for Jaya, after Copter, Harvester, and Skysovereign. It's not reliable enough card draw for me, but there are certainly worse choices if you want to try out a vehicle.
Gonti's Aether Heart - Very delayed Time Warp. It's decent if you have other uses for energy in your list. I wouldn't expect to get a turn out of it if it's the only energy card you have which makes it a little bit of a dead card.
Heart of Kiran - Crew 3 means no crewing by unassisted Jaya, which is rough. The creature body on its own isn't very impressive for this format and the planeswalker ability is nowhere near reliable enough. You have to be going pretty deep on vehicles for this to make the cut.
Hope of Ghirapur - Anti-counter card. If you're in a heavy counter or spell based combo meta, I could see this being decent. That said, a meta like that is going to be pretty rough for Jaya like I have her built anyways.
Inspiring Statuary - I could see this being good. If you have a decent concentration of non-mana rock artifacts, this is going to be as good or better than Worn Powerstone for spells. Not being able to use it for Jaya activations or artifacts might make it too restrictive.
Paradox Engine - Card's borderline busted. You can probably figure out for yourself if this is a good fit or not. While untapping Jaya is a small perk, the card isn't worth it for that alone thanks to the discard cost on her abilities.
Planar Bridge - Expensive activation. Jaya runs permanent heavy enough that this is very powerful if you think it's going to stick. If you're only going to get one activation out of it reliably, I would think long and hard before including this over something like Ring of Three Wishes, which I'm already not tempted by.
Scrap Trawler - There's a lot of potential card advantage here and I always appreciate more GY plays. I also like death triggers in Jaya because they're more or less a sure thing.
Treasure Keeper - Again with the death trigger, but I don't like this as much. It's guaranteed to replace itself but the body is nothing to write home about.
Universal Solvent - I would rather have Unstable Obelisk, but more colorless removal is hard to complain about.
Untethered Express - This is a decent vehicle. It survives sorcery speed removal and Jaya's infernos while growing into a respectable beater. I would probably put this into the top 3 vehicles if you're looking for one of those.
Walking Ballista - Direct damage is a lot more tempting in a deck not already full of it.
I'm a big fan of this set in general, but I don't think there's anything that I'm really dying to try in Jaya. Top three picks are Indomitable Creativity, Inspiring Statuary, and Scrap Trawler, which are all cards with some potential and not snap includes. The more likely change out of this set is trying out Smuggler's Copter, now that the banning has dropped prices on them.
1) If Scrap Trawler and a second artifact are put into the graveyard simultaneously, does the trigger fire twice? In other words, do you get to return 2 artifacts to your hand?
2) Since Scrap Trawler's trigger goes on the stack when it is "put into the graveyard," is there anything preventing you from returning Scrap Trawler to your hand off off its own trigger?
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
2) Yeah, the CMC clause specifying it must have a CMC less than the artifact that triggered Trawler. Edit: So if Hedron Archive and Trawler die simultaneously, the trigger from the Archive could return Trawler, but Trawler's would have to return an artifact with CMC 2 or less.
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
Since my first post on this thread over 2.5 years ago, I've replaced 36 of the cards in my original deck. Excluding 6 basic mountains that were replaced by non-basic lands, 43% of the cards (30 out of 70) in my deck have changed. In addition, I've cycled another 14 cards in and out of my deck at various points.
Due to a balance accumulated on PucaTrade, I recently acquired some higher value cards. (Don't worry, measuring my PucaTrade activity as a whole I still managed to keep every card under my 50 cents per card budget restriction. :D) Here are my latest upgrades:
Illusionist's Bracers => Gratuitous Violence
Dwarven Blastminer => Repercussion
Dwarven Miner => Goblin Welder
Sandstone Oracle => Runehorn Hellkite
Cathartic Reunion => Caged Sun
And here's the resulting deck:
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Creatures (15)
1 Firewing Phoenix
1 Kuldotha Phoenix
1 Magma Phoenix
1 Shard Phoenix
1 Skarrgan Firebird
1 Anger
1 Charmbreaker Devils
1 Duplicant
1 Goblin Welder
1 Heartless Hidetsugu
1 Hoarding Dragon
1 Kumano, Master Yamabushi
1 Malignus
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Steel Hellkite
Equipment (4)
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Magebane Armor
1 Swiftfoot Boots
Miscellaneous Permanents (5)
1 Aligned Hedron Network
1 Distorting Lens
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Sun Droplet
1 Trading Post
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Fire Diamond
1 Mind Stone
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Pristine Talisman
1 Unstable Obelisk
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Hedron Archive
1 Dreamstone Hedron
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Expedition Map
1 Caged Sun
Card Draw & Filtering (8)
1 Commune with Lava
1 Crystal Ball
1 Endbringer (creature)
1 Mindmoil
1 Outpost Siege
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Runehorn Hellkite (creature)
1 Staff of Nin
Instants/Sorceries/One-Shots (12)
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Brittle Effigy (artifact)
1 Fissure
1 Grab the Reins
1 Mana Geyser
1 Comet Storm
1 Devil's Play
1 Reverberate
1 Wild Ricochet
1 Tormod's Crypt (artifact)
1 Shenanigans
1 Vandalblast
1 Gratuitous Violence
1 Pyrohemia
1 Repercussion
1 Vicious Shadows
Lands (38)
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Buried Ruin
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Flamekin Village
1 Hanweir Battlements
1 Kher Keep
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Encroaching Wastes
1 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Scavenger Grounds
1 Dormant Volcano
1 Temple of the False God
1 Mage-Ring Network
24 Mountain
At this point, I'm pleased with state of my deck. It plays well, is an appropriate level for my opponents, and, for the budget I'm willing to spend, I think it is pretty close to as good as I can make it. Anger is the only card I'm still missing that I'd like to have in the deck, but Fervor is a reasonable substitute for the time being.
UPDATE (4/20/17): Anger obtained!
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
edit: Whoops just realized you don't have Reiterate in your list.
edit#2: Thought I saw Rings of Brighthearth in your list. Disregard Monolith.
Myrmadillo , I was looking at cards a few days ago and noticed a few mana rocks that I'm even thinking about for my own Jaya deck. Those being Seer's Lantern and Magnifying Glass, I'm more intrigued by the glass then the lanturn, because it can actually draw cards as opposed to just scrying. I wont if either of these cards wouldn't just be strict upgrades over some of your manarocks.
Has anyone done much testing with Extraplanar Lens and can offer an opinion? I don't like opening myself up for to a 2-for-1, but double mana is really powerful.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
My comment does neglect that you can split the mana cost across two turns, but I generally don't have that much mana to spare for a single card. Now that I have Goblin Welder in my deck, the Clue Tokens might have good alternate uses, but I'm not still not convinced.
As for Seer's Lantern, before I accumulated some of my better card draw, I was considering putting Darksteel Pendant in my deck. It never made the cut because Scry 1 just never seemed powerful enough. Seer's Lantern costs twice as much for the same action.
In recent years, they've printed so many good 3 CMC mana rocks that the stapled on ability really has to synergize or be something special to be worth playing. If you do give either a try, I'd be interested in hearing the results.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
I play all 4 Mana doubling effects in my list. I really enjoy the lens. Like you said doubling mana is great. Being 2-for-1'd is not fun, but just losing one land in a multiplayer game is well worth the power that is has to offer.
Definitely never play it on turn 3.
RJaya Ballard, Task Mage Mono Red Control Decklist
WNahiri, the Lithomancer Mono White Control Decklist
RGWUKynaios and Tiro of Meletis Aikido Control Decklist
UBGisa and Geralf Tribal Aggro Decklist
URGRiku of Two Reflections Non-combo coolstuff Decklist
RWUBruse Tarl, Boorish Herder and Kraum, Ludovic's Opus Equipments Decklist
WBAthreos, God of Passage Reanimate/Goodstuff Decklist
RJaya Ballard, Task Mage Mono Red Control Decklist
WNahiri, the Lithomancer Mono White Control Decklist
RGWUKynaios and Tiro of Meletis Aikido Control Decklist
UBGisa and Geralf Tribal Aggro Decklist
URGRiku of Two Reflections Non-combo coolstuff Decklist
RWUBruse Tarl, Boorish Herder and Kraum, Ludovic's Opus Equipments Decklist
WBAthreos, God of Passage Reanimate/Goodstuff Decklist
Those with higher budget decks have other win-cons, but I'll let them answer for themselves.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
I guess since I run it like it's a control deck (the commander is a boardwipe, after all), I gotta stay flexible.
Just piggy-backing this.
Some of my favorite wins have been Forking a Tooth and Nail for Kiki-Jiki and Zealous Conscripts or damage with an army of Wurmcoil Engine tokens. Daretti and Goblin Welder helped with that.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR