You're probably right. The intent was to have the Hound pick up the Loxodon Warhammer or Butcher's Cleaver after a board wipe (Jaya or otherwise) and swing for 12. Unfortunately, he doesn't get lifelink from the cleaver.
Thanks for the response! I'm only looking for feedback on the cards I have available at this time (see cards I listed in my post above). I also have a strict budget on my EDH decks in that I never spend more than 50 cents on any individual card. (I usually mention this, but I neglected to do so this time. Sorry!)
Please stick around and continue to shame Weebo for cutting Squee from his Jaya list.
I noticed that... seems odd. Weebo did you find him not preforming? It seems like you still have quite a few cards that synergies with him even outside of Jaya.
Weebo's rationale for leaving Squee out can be found here.
My thoughts on the cards you mentioned: Avacyn's Judgment - Seems too mana intensive if your primary goal is to fire off Jaya's inferno and the non-madness effect doesn't seem good enough on its own.
Prophetic Ravings - Most Jaya decks run a pretty low creature count. Mad Prophet might be a better option since it comes with a creature stapled onto the effect.
Geier Reach Sanitarium - There's been a bit of discussion about this one. Start here and read through the July 11 posts.
I know there are not a lot of spells in the primary decklist here, but I think shreds of sanity is a fairly good card to chat about.
I've been sticking it in quite a few of my mono-red decks that have a fair amount of spells. In a deck that may already be running recoup to help re-buy a wheel of fortune, shreds of sanity seems really strong. In Jaya, you can use it to pick up two earlier discarded spells.
It only looks to be playable in a deck with a higher spell-count (20ish), and acts as a discard outlet for madness/squee/phoenix/flashback stuff. Even if you are hellbent, as long as there are two targets for it, it will still be a call to mind.
Chandra, Flamecaller should ideally be in there, but all of my copies are being used for Standard right now.
I'm also trying to find space for Wake of Destruction, because green ramp decks are giving me a rash and it's time for Jaya to get a little rude.
Staff of Domination has been sort of lackluster the last couple months, maybe I'll give that one a rest. I could also probably live with cutting one of the creatures, too. I dunno. When none of your cards are blatantly letting you down, it's tough to find cuts.
I'm not Wyvern, but when I still had my Jaya list together, I ran Koth and I really liked him. He was a sort-of reusable ritual, which is always nice and sometimes even just getting an extra creature to swing with was nice. And of course, if you can get his emblem it's great, but I don't think I ever got it...
Weebo's rationale for leaving Squee out can be found here.
My thoughts on the cards you mentioned: Prophetic Ravings - Most Jaya decks run a pretty low creature count. Mad Prophet might be a better option since it comes with a creature stapled onto the effect.
I'll check out Weebo's rationale.
I think Ravings will be better in practice because it can act as a 1 mana give Jaya haste. Perhaps the deck already reliably turns haste on for Jaya so the redundancy is not necessary but i guess that's where the flexibility of turning something into a looter comes in as well.
Has anyone tried Chandra, Flamecaller yet, she seems like a good addition? Are people just wanting for her to rotate out of standard?
Koth is a rock-solid card. (Peanut gallery: booooooooo) Jenn pretty much nailed the reasoning. If you treat him as a late-game ritual that also has applications early on, or against an empty board, you'll be quite pleased with him.
As for Chandra, I know a handful of us have already tried her out (myself included, actually - but then I wanted to build something for Standard, and she was removed) and are really liking the power her ±0 ability brings. You can churn through your deck in a hurry.
I think Ravings will be better in practice because it can act as a 1 mana give Jaya haste. Perhaps the deck already reliably turns haste on for Jaya so the redundancy is not necessary but i guess that's where the flexibility of turning something into a looter comes in as well.
If you're primarily looking for haste, Racecourse Fury is repeatable and more durable since it sits on a land. I tried Mark of Fury in my deck for a while, but was unimpressed. Perhaps the hybrid looting AND haste of Prophetic Ravings has value, but I'm not convinced.
To add more the to discussion about Chandra, I really have been loving her. She single handedly won me a game today when I was able to protect her, dealing 6 to an opponent on a +1 is good, killing small tokens with her -X is good, and the wheel effect is great (especially when you have a Squee in the yard). I really really like her.
Another card that's been doing solid work for me is War's Toll. If your opponents do anything on their turn, they can't do anything on yours, which has been really useful.
Friendly reminder to anyone with even moderately expensive cards that double sleeving decks is worthwhile. I had a friend spill coffee at my deck this afternoon, which could have ended very badly. No damage aside from some very, very slight discoloration on the edge of Gamble (literally just a tiny spot on the top edge, not even the face of the card), but it's definitely going to make me a little more careful in the future.
I updated the list in the first post. With a couple changes from today, there were 8 cards changed over the course of the last year. I'm still planning on a more detailed update to the primer text proper, but that's going to take more time and it had already been a long time since there was any kind of update.
Private Mod Note
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Friendly reminder to anyone with even moderately expensive cards that double sleeving decks is worthwhile. I had a friend spill coffee at my deck this afternoon, which could have ended very badly. No damage aside from some very, very slight discoloration on the edge of Gamble (literally just a tiny spot on the top edge, not even the face of the card), but it's definitely going to make me a little more careful in the future.
I learned my lesson about that after losing several expensive lands to a spilled glass of water. X(
I would think that would work better with a different general, probably Squee, Goblin Nabob or Daretti. Jaya doesn't really support that aside from also discarding cards and she typically wants more mana available, given that her most impactful ability at a lot of tables is her Inferno. It could be a viable deck, but it would have to be a drastically different one than mine to effectively break the symmetry. Much, much heavier on mana rocks and the win cons would have to shift away from things like Valakut and Comet Storm. The other issue I've always run into when theorizing this kind of thing is that there are relatively few cards with that effect. There's the titular Wildfire, Devastating Dreams, Destructive Force, kind of Devastation, and it drops off abruptly after that. Burning of Xinye is a lot more accessible after the FTV printing, but only hits one other player. There's plenty of MLD available, as well as things like Obliterate, which is probably better given that you're unlikely to outramp everyone at a table, but that shifts the focus. MLD also requires more creature control if you're playing with similar wincons to a Wildfire deck. There's also a social incentive to not pull this kind of deck out too often in a lot of groups. The mix of problems and the fact that most of my playgroup would not respond well to a dedicated LD deck has kept me from putting any serious time into it.
I learned my lesson about that after losing several expensive lands to a spilled glass of water. X(
I have a brown playset of Ancestral Visions (cheaper at the time and I had a spare set that I unloaded when it was unbanned in modern) and various other cards from the time I spilled coffee at my desk. You would think that I would have learned then, but I just stopped putting my coffee mug down next to my cards. This one was at a shop and largely beyond my control. I somehow managed to dodge any real damage, but it was close enough that I'm just sucking up the larger deck size. I don't appreciate needing to find a larger box, though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I would think that would work better with a different general, probably Squee, Goblin Nabob or Daretti. Jaya doesn't really support that aside from also discarding cards and she typically wants more mana available, given that her most impactful ability at a lot of tables is her Inferno. It could be a viable deck, but it would have to be a drastically different one than mine to effectively break the symmetry. Much, much heavier on mana rocks and the win cons would have to shift away from things like Valakut and Comet Storm. The other issue I've always run into when theorizing this kind of thing is that there are relatively few cards with that effect. There's the titular Wildfire, Devastating Dreams, Destructive Force, kind of Devastation, and it drops off abruptly after that. Burning of Xinye is a lot more accessible after the FTV printing, but only hits one other player. There's plenty of MLD available, as well as things like Obliterate, which is probably better given that you're unlikely to outramp everyone at a table, but that shifts the focus. MLD also requires more creature control if you're playing with similar wincons to a Wildfire deck. There's also a social incentive to not pull this kind of deck out too often in a lot of groups. The mix of problems and the fact that most of my playgroup would not respond well to a dedicated LD deck has kept me from putting any serious time into it.
You make a really good point about that hate from a play group that you might pick up from that kind of deck and Jaya is right now my "friendly" deck.
I learned my lesson about that after losing several expensive lands to a spilled glass of water. X(
I have a brown playset of Ancestral Visions (cheaper at the time and I had a spare set that I unloaded when it was unbanned in modern) and various other cards from the time I spilled coffee at my desk. You would think that I would have learned then, but I just stopped putting my coffee mug down next to my cards. This one was at a shop and largely beyond my control. I somehow managed to dodge any real damage, but it was close enough that I'm just sucking up the larger deck size. I don't appreciate needing to find a larger box, though.
I'm glad to hear you're making the switch, you might be surprised that there is a large selection of deck boxes that support double sleeves deck boxes from cheaper $4 plastic boxes that just work REALY well to things like the Legion Elder Dragon Vault that is a luxury deck box that fits two decks and tokens.
- - -
Anyone's thoughts on Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker I haven't play him yet but having just experienced Koth's emblem I'm curious as to what's realistic, I just keep fearing he's going to end up being too low of an impact. Though acting as a 4/4 beater that dodges the inferno seems synergistic...
Anyone's thoughts on Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker I haven't play him yet but having just experienced Koth's emblem I'm curious as to what's realistic, I just keep fearing he's going to end up being too low of an impact. Though acting as a 4/4 beater that dodges the inferno seems synergistic...
Seems like Koth is the better choice between the two, unless you really need Sarkhan's -2 ability for some reason. The +1 abilities on the two are pretty much the same, and Koth's emblem is way more high-impact if you can land it.
Friendly reminder to anyone with even moderately expensive cards that double sleeving decks is worthwhile. I had a friend spill coffee at my deck this afternoon, which could have ended very badly. No damage aside from some very, very slight discoloration on the edge of Gamble (literally just a tiny spot on the top edge, not even the face of the card), but it's definitely going to make me a little more careful in the future.
This is the stuff of nightmares for me. I have a sliver deck with full revised duals, and people even having drinks at the table gives me the heebie-jeebies. I also have a lot of classic cards like The Abyss and Mana Drain in my decks, and sometimes I wonder if I should just liquidate everything before they get liquid-ruined.
I had it happen once before with another CCG; and I had to cut the sleeves to get the cards out...
I'm glad to hear you're making the switch, you might be surprised that there is a large selection of deck boxes that support double sleeves deck boxes from cheaper $4 plastic boxes that just work REALY well to things like the Legion Elder Dragon Vault that is a luxury deck box that fits two decks and tokens.
Yeah, I know there are options. I'm mostly figuring out whether I want to have something beyond a fat pack box (which is where all of my other decks live) in the interim before I inevitably get something much nicer. I kind of want a decent wooden box, but those tend to be expensive and I don't have the tools, space, or expertise to make one myself right now. I'm probably just going to stick with the fat pack for the time being until I break down and realize that the cost of a really nice box is still substantially lower than the cost of the cards inside. I'm pretty frugal with most of my MtG accessories, but I don't mind going a little further for this deck given it's longevity and the amount of time and money sunk into it.
Anyone's thoughts on Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker I haven't play him yet but having just experienced Koth's emblem I'm curious as to what's realistic, I just keep fearing he's going to end up being too low of an impact. Though acting as a 4/4 beater that dodges the inferno seems synergistic...
I think I put him below Phoenix in general. They fill a similar role, but the Phoenix come back when they get killed off by anything, can be discarded before being played the first time, and can't be attacked by other players. Sarkhan is at his best when you're facing down a mostly empty board but can't finish off a game quickly, which is an awkward spot. His ultimate is decent card draw but almost guarantees you're not going to be able to use Jaya on other players' turns. I agree wit hWyvern that Koth is the better choice if you're looking for a walker.
Seems like Koth is the better choice between the two, unless you really need Sarkhan's -2 ability for some reason. The +1 abilities on the two are pretty much the same, and Koth's emblem is way more high-impact if you can land it.
Agreed. Koth's +1 also works as ramp in a pinch, his ritual can be a big play, and his ultimate is incredible. He's constantly on the verge of making it back into the deck, I just have more cards to play than I do slots.
This is the stuff of nightmares for me. I have a sliver deck with full revised duals, and people even having drinks at the table gives me the heebie-jeebies. I also have a lot of classic cards like The Abyss and Mana Drain in my decks, and sometimes I wonder if I should just liquidate everything before they get liquid-ruined.
I had it happen once before with another CCG; and I had to cut the sleeves to get the cards out...
This is my most expensive deck on the whole, but I have plenty of individually pricey cards (Tabernacle, enough duals to put together just about any legacy list, most of the Legends enchantments, etc) in other lists. The way I look at it is that I got the cards to play with. I'd like to avoid damage and have the option to sell in the future if need be, but it's not the end of the world if that doesn't end up the case. I've gotten plenty of enjoyment out of them over the years even if they don't end up worth the card stock they're printed on.
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I update the lists in my post above. I crossed Farsight Mask and Arcbond off the maybe list and replaced Dragon Mage with Endbringer.
More opinions would be appreciated.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
Where is Squee, Goblin Nabob, that card appears to be a must have with Jaya.
Basilisk Collar as a replacement for Butcher's Cleaver?
I know fire and Ice are obscenely expensive but Sword of War and Peace seem like a good pick up.
UBRNicol Bolas, the RavagerUBR
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
2DH / Budget Commanders:
WMangara of Corondor 2DHW
BRXantcha, Sleeper Agent 2DHBR
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
Please stick around and continue to shame Weebo for cutting Squee from his Jaya list.
I noticed that... seems odd. Weebo did you find him not preforming? It seems like you still have quite a few cards that synergies with him even outside of Jaya.
Thoughts on Avacyn's Judgment, Collective Defiance, Prophetic Ravings, Geier Reach Sanitarium, and Hanweir Battlements
UBRNicol Bolas, the RavagerUBR
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
2DH / Budget Commanders:
WMangara of Corondor 2DHW
BRXantcha, Sleeper Agent 2DHBR
My thoughts on the cards you mentioned:
Avacyn's Judgment - Seems too mana intensive if your primary goal is to fire off Jaya's inferno and the non-madness effect doesn't seem good enough on its own.
Collective Defiance - Reminds me of Incendiary Command which never seemed good enough to make the cut even in my budget deck. I ran Shattered Perception for a while, but always found it underwhelming.
Prophetic Ravings - Most Jaya decks run a pretty low creature count. Mad Prophet might be a better option since it comes with a creature stapled onto the effect.
Geier Reach Sanitarium - There's been a bit of discussion about this one. Start here and read through the July 11 posts.
Hanweir Battlements - I'm already running Flamekin Village and intend to add this one to my deck when the price dips below 50 cents.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
I've been sticking it in quite a few of my mono-red decks that have a fair amount of spells. In a deck that may already be running recoup to help re-buy a wheel of fortune, shreds of sanity seems really strong. In Jaya, you can use it to pick up two earlier discarded spells.
It only looks to be playable in a deck with a higher spell-count (20ish), and acts as a discard outlet for madness/squee/phoenix/flashback stuff. Even if you are hellbent, as long as there are two targets for it, it will still be a call to mind.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Creatures (14)
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Goblin Welder
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Firewing Phoenix
1 Kuldotha Phoenix
1 Anger
1 Kumano, Master Yamabushi
1 Magma Phoenix
1 Hoarding Dragon
1 Skarrgan Firebird
1 Charmbreaker Devils
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Dualcaster Mage
Artifacts (23)
1 Sol Ring
1 Expedition Map
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Fire Diamond
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Distorting Lens
1 Journeyer's Kite
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Pristine Talisman
1 Batterskull
1 Trading Post
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Mind's Eye
1 Staff of Domination
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Staff of Nin
1 Caged Sun
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Chandra Ablaze
1 Karn Liberated
1 Daretti, Scrap Savant
Sorceries (12)
1 Shattering Spree
1 Faithless Looting
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Past in Flames
1 Ruination
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Reforge the Soul
1 All Is Dust
1 Devil's Play
1 Banefire
1 Gamble
1 Mana Geyser
Instants (5)
1 Commune with Lava
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Reiterate
1 Chaos Warp
1 Comet Storm
Enchantments (3)
1 Repercussion
1 Stranglehold
1 Blood Moon
Lands (38)
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Strip Mine
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Vesuva
1 Temple of the False God
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Buried Ruin
1 High Market
1 Kher Keep
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
24 Mountain
Chandra, Flamecaller should ideally be in there, but all of my copies are being used for Standard right now.
I'm also trying to find space for Wake of Destruction, because green ramp decks are giving me a rash and it's time for Jaya to get a little rude.
Staff of Domination has been sort of lackluster the last couple months, maybe I'll give that one a rest. I could also probably live with cutting one of the creatures, too. I dunno. When none of your cards are blatantly letting you down, it's tough to find cuts.
Has anyone tried Chandra, Flamecaller yet, she seems like a good addition? Are people just wanting for her to rotate out of standard?
UBRNicol Bolas, the RavagerUBR
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
2DH / Budget Commanders:
WMangara of Corondor 2DHW
BRXantcha, Sleeper Agent 2DHBR
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
I'll check out Weebo's rationale.
I think Ravings will be better in practice because it can act as a 1 mana give Jaya haste. Perhaps the deck already reliably turns haste on for Jaya so the redundancy is not necessary but i guess that's where the flexibility of turning something into a looter comes in as well.
UBRNicol Bolas, the RavagerUBR
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
2DH / Budget Commanders:
WMangara of Corondor 2DHW
BRXantcha, Sleeper Agent 2DHBR
Koth is a rock-solid card. (Peanut gallery: booooooooo) Jenn pretty much nailed the reasoning. If you treat him as a late-game ritual that also has applications early on, or against an empty board, you'll be quite pleased with him.
As for Chandra, I know a handful of us have already tried her out (myself included, actually - but then I wanted to build something for Standard, and she was removed) and are really liking the power her ±0 ability brings. You can churn through your deck in a hurry.
....or ARE you?!
If you're primarily looking for haste, Racecourse Fury is repeatable and more durable since it sits on a land. I tried Mark of Fury in my deck for a while, but was unimpressed. Perhaps the hybrid looting AND haste of Prophetic Ravings has value, but I'm not convinced.
Anger is probably the best haste enabler for the deck. Flamekin Village and Hanweir Battlements move haste to your mana base. I don't own Anger, so I'm testing both Fervor and Hammer of Purphoros at the moment.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
I...I don't know... *existential dread sets in*
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
Another card that's been doing solid work for me is War's Toll. If your opponents do anything on their turn, they can't do anything on yours, which has been really useful.
I updated the list in the first post. With a couple changes from today, there were 8 cards changed over the course of the last year. I'm still planning on a more detailed update to the primer text proper, but that's going to take more time and it had already been a long time since there was any kind of update.
UBRNicol Bolas, the RavagerUBR
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
2DH / Budget Commanders:
WMangara of Corondor 2DHW
BRXantcha, Sleeper Agent 2DHBR
I learned my lesson about that after losing several expensive lands to a spilled glass of water. X(
I have a brown playset of Ancestral Visions (cheaper at the time and I had a spare set that I unloaded when it was unbanned in modern) and various other cards from the time I spilled coffee at my desk. You would think that I would have learned then, but I just stopped putting my coffee mug down next to my cards. This one was at a shop and largely beyond my control. I somehow managed to dodge any real damage, but it was close enough that I'm just sucking up the larger deck size. I don't appreciate needing to find a larger box, though.
I'm glad to hear you're making the switch, you might be surprised that there is a large selection of deck boxes that support double sleeves deck boxes from cheaper $4 plastic boxes that just work REALY well to things like the Legion Elder Dragon Vault that is a luxury deck box that fits two decks and tokens.
- - -
Anyone's thoughts on Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker I haven't play him yet but having just experienced Koth's emblem I'm curious as to what's realistic, I just keep fearing he's going to end up being too low of an impact. Though acting as a 4/4 beater that dodges the inferno seems synergistic...
UBRNicol Bolas, the RavagerUBR
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
2DH / Budget Commanders:
WMangara of Corondor 2DHW
BRXantcha, Sleeper Agent 2DHBR
Seems like Koth is the better choice between the two, unless you really need Sarkhan's -2 ability for some reason. The +1 abilities on the two are pretty much the same, and Koth's emblem is way more high-impact if you can land it.
I had it happen once before with another CCG; and I had to cut the sleeves to get the cards out...
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
I think I put him below Phoenix in general. They fill a similar role, but the Phoenix come back when they get killed off by anything, can be discarded before being played the first time, and can't be attacked by other players. Sarkhan is at his best when you're facing down a mostly empty board but can't finish off a game quickly, which is an awkward spot. His ultimate is decent card draw but almost guarantees you're not going to be able to use Jaya on other players' turns. I agree wit hWyvern that Koth is the better choice if you're looking for a walker.
Agreed. Koth's +1 also works as ramp in a pinch, his ritual can be a big play, and his ultimate is incredible. He's constantly on the verge of making it back into the deck, I just have more cards to play than I do slots.
This is my most expensive deck on the whole, but I have plenty of individually pricey cards (Tabernacle, enough duals to put together just about any legacy list, most of the Legends enchantments, etc) in other lists. The way I look at it is that I got the cards to play with. I'd like to avoid damage and have the option to sell in the future if need be, but it's not the end of the world if that doesn't end up the case. I've gotten plenty of enjoyment out of them over the years even if they don't end up worth the card stock they're printed on.