I think you're reading repercussion wrong. The controller of the creature dealt damage gets hurt, not you. If they block your gargadon with a birds of paradise, you kill the bird and THEY take 9.
I think you're reading repercussion wrong. The controller of the creature dealt damage gets hurt, not you. If they block your gargadon with a birds of paradise, you kill the bird and THEY take 9.
If you B act, and they have one creature on the board, they take 52 damage. 26 is dealt to the creature, then it doubled again for when it hits them again.
I dont think its a big deal is Gisela bites the dust if all your opponents do at the same time as well.
...and chain reaction was just a suggestion to get the point across- something like starstorm is probably better
I think you're reading repercussion wrong. The controller of the creature dealt damage gets hurt, not you. If they block your gargadon with a birds of paradise, you kill the bird and THEY take 9.
Your point here, I was reading Repercussion wrong.
With or without Gisela, my gameplan is to have the upside in summoning creatures, wipe the board and go to town.
Using Repercussion, a board wipe based on damage could even draw the game on the spot and is not following the gameplan in any case.
Therefore, I will "no, thanks" your suggestion again but I'm glad you named the card because I'm just a tiny player somewhere in the world.
Behemoth is green and Gisela doesn't like spinach for dinner. I'm surprised you named the creature, maybe you were too happy for Sheldon's quote.
During my playtesting, I'm often battling with a single creature and this is not what Kiki-Jiki helps for, so I don't think it's good for this deck. Moreover, it's not an Angel!
I prefer to keep Inferno over Terminus because it can damage the opponent as well.
Behemoth is green and Gisela doesn't like spinach for dinner. I'm surprised you named the creature, maybe you were too happy for Sheldon's quote.
During my playtesting, I'm often battling with a single creature and this is not what Kiki-Jiki helps for, so I don't think it's good for this deck. Moreover, it's not an Angel!
You misunderstood, friend. I'd like to include an answer for Behemoth and Kiki, not include them. The card I'm looking to include is Safe Passage.
Comparing the deck with the current "No Bowls friendly mid-range control version", a few changes have been made:
Out ==> In ==> Reason
[…]
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage ==> Karmic Guide ==> I'm following nurse.jason's advice here: we have very little card draw, we can't discard so easily here. The Guide on the opposite can recur a creature and offer a pro-black action on board if necessary. Well, it's not an Angel... but it comes quite close
Quote from ChimericPisces »
I run Guide in a different style Gisela deck, focused on creature damage. The only Judgment Day version I've tested it in was the APOCALYPSE build and I wasn't thrilled with it. I feel that Defy Death and Miraculous Recovery are contextually stronger choices.
Stranglehold ==> War's Toll ==> This was a tough choice but I prefer to lock their current actions instead of locking their library searches. I'm kind of convinced that counterspells scare us more than any permanent, so maybe Stranglehold can rotate out for good.
Library searches are how both combo players and green mages win the game.
[…]
Relic of Progenitus ==> Rout ==> I'd like to keep Anger and Glory safe in my graveyard, thanks. And if I could have a possibly instant-speed wrath, then so be it.
I can do without a graveyard if it means denying Karador players theirs.
Miren, the Moaning Well ==> Darksteel Citadel ==> While talking colorless, I don't think we need a sacrifice outlet as much as we need an indestructible land with all the sweepers we play in the deck. And if we're talking about Word of Seizing synergies here, that's a long and convolute way to kill a single creature.
No, we're talking about protecting Gisela from being tucked/stolen.
[…]
At the time I'm writing this, this deck is freshly assembled and never tested out. It eventually will, when normal people returns from holidays sometime soon: expect some updates, and in the meanwhile, we can discuss all this.
How has your build played out for you so far?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
There are no divisions: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28
Hey, ChimericPisces! I've been lurking for a bit and I really like your deck! I do have one question concerning changes that you made to it (and correct me if you've already answered this previously). At what point did you switch over from SoWaP to SoFaF and why? I'm just curious because you seemed so opposed to it in the first place, but then all of a sudden it changed and I don't believe there was a change log that mentioned it.
Again, major props on this endeavor! Probably my favorite deck at the moment.
I do have one question concerning changes that you made to it (and correct me if you've already answered this previously). At what point did you switch over from SoWaP to SoFaF and why? I'm just curious because you seemed so opposed to it in the first place, but then all of a sudden it changed and I don't believe there was a change log that mentioned it.
I replaced Sword of War and Peace with Sword of Feast and Famine when I developed the WMD variant and doubled the amount of mass land destruction spells found in the original deck (No Bowls "friendly" version). Although I was primarily interested in maximizing the deck's limited mana resources, I quickly began to appreciate the Voltron-factor when my angel was equipped with both Swords and only susceptible to white removal/blockers. In addition, black and green are far more popular colors in my meta than white. If I had room for another Sword, though, SoWP would be at the top of my list.
Well, between the recent banning of Worldfire and the absence of any Boros cards in Return to Ravnica, the only gift Judgment Day received was the mana-fixer, Chromatic Lantern. This card will make casting the deck's more color-intensive spells such as Avacyn and Wake of Destruction a lot easier!
Hey guys!
I've been testing Chimeric's Control version of Gisela against a variety of decks, and I've found some major flaws I'd like to point out that some of you might take into consideration if you're looking to play this deck more.
As a list:
- Mill. This deck is INCREDIBLY weak against mill. There were plenty of times I've had been milled half a deck and there had been absolutely no chance of recovery from there. Mistveil Plains just doesn't cut it, considering all the drawbacks it has. It comes into play tapped, it needs another land to be useful, and the most important of all, it only recovers one card.
My suggestion is to swap Mistveil for a single Plains card, and cut Nobilis of War to make way for an Eldrazi. Preferably Kozilek since it is a good body and has incredible card advantage, not to mention complete shutdown of the milling drawback.
- Mind-control. Miren, the Moaning Well is a good land. It combos well with Mind-control and gains a good amount of life for a difficult to kill source. To counter this, I ask of you, how many mind-control effects does this deck have? Only one that you could use with Miren (Word of Seizing). Insurrection is the Apocalypse Button when you cast it. It just doesn't work well in this deck. Not even with reviving their guys with Adarkar Valkyrie (that lady just IMPLODES after only a turn of being on the board, if she stays that long...). My suggestion is, but down Miren and play Homeward Path. This deck doesn't care one bit to return creatures to their rightful owners, since it will hurt someone if Homeward actually does something. Also, Homeward acts by itself and leaves mana open to do anything else you like.
- Deck Manipulation. Sensei's Top is so important in this deck that it's not even funny. Mind's Eye is expensive but amazingly powerful. What I mean is, a control deck without blue has a hard time keeping up with drawing cards and what it wants/needs. I don't even have good suggestions for this. I'm up to options.
- Finishing it. Let's face it, Gisela is the best commander for finishing one player. Not multiple. Thus, this deck needs a sort of Nuke to clear the board. The Repercussion-Blasphemous-Gisela combo (With Boseiju, obviously) is so devastating it's not even funny. Even control decks with dorks hanging around get completely obliterated in one go. Problem is assembling it. Enlightened tutor is awesome for this, but combining this problem with the previous results in a clash between looking for top or looking for Repercussion. I've tried Luminarch Ascencion to a good result, but be ready to face the wrath of the entire board once it goes online.
- Boros. Believe it or not, facing the same colours as Gisela is bothersome. Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares are definite ways to make Gisela virtually uncastable if they can keep us from mana dorks or ramping. A considerable problem, solved with one easy way, Sword of War and Peace onto Gisela. So simple, yet so effective. You didn't block Gisela? No problem! Take 10 to the face! They have 5 cards in hand? Take ANOTHER 10 to the face. Those have been the major issues regarding this awesome deck (which I adore, no matter it's drawbacks), now I'd like to point out the changes I've done and the mental thought behind them.
Out:
Miren, the Moaning Well
Faith's Reward
Deathless Angel
Nobilis of War
Decree of Annihilation
Godo, Bandit Warlord
In:
Aurelia, Warleader (I love this lady. She has an obscene power level in this deck, considering they're all bombs and combos beautifully with Sun Titan.)
Homeward Path (See above)
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth (Same as Homeward)
Repercussion (Combo part #1)
Blasphemous Act (Cheapest Wrath, Wrath number # 11 and Combo Part # 2)
Admonition Angel (This woman is a complete BEAST in duels. Get her early, combo her with fetch and Crucible and watch your opponent weep in despair)
Girls to be considered (Haven't tried them, but have potential):
Angel of Serenity
Karmic Guide
Angelic Skirmisher
Voice of All
Luminous Angel
Akroma, Angel of Wrath (Both Akroma at the same time is a happy time)
Special mention to:
Evangelize (Fits the deck's theme and also is quite powerful)
Boros Charm (Can be a finisher and a life saver)
Aurelia's Fury (Haven't tried it, but it has a lot of potential to open up the board to combo Repercussion off or to enable you to pass all your ladies straight through their defenses)
There are some more lesser considerations, but they are for a future time and after further analysis of the changes I've been considering for this deck.
Later,
PlasmaBeam.
APOCALYPSE combo version: Added
Gideon, Champion of Justice
Boros Charm
Gideon, Champion of Justice can't even find a home in Constructed, why do you think it would be welcome in this EDH deck? Isn't it strictly worse than Gideon Jura, just to make an example?
Gideon, Champion of Justice can't even find a home in Constructed, why do you think it would be welcome in this EDH deck? Isn't it strictly worse than Gideon Jura, just to make an example?
Hi, JoJoFC! Long time no chat!
Gideon 2.0 acts as both defense and offense in the Apocalypse version of Judgment Day. He either draws attacks to himself and away from the player, or he acts as second copy of Apocalypse. If he gets to swing for damage before/after, that's just icing on the cake.
Obviously, he doesn't have a place in the other Judgment Day variants, but he more than holds his own in the Apocalypse version.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
There are no divisions: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28
Gideon 2.0 acts as both defense and offense in the Apocalypse version of Judgment Day. He either draws attacks to himself and away from the player, or he acts as second copy of Apocalypse. If he gets to swing for damage before/after, that's just icing on the cake.
Obviously, he doesn't have a place in the other Judgment Day variants, but he more than holds his own in the Apocalypse version.
Thanks for the answer! You have a good memory, I still follow this thread but my EDH Gisela has not performed very much lately. I don't know your habits, but my EDH average is to a game per month (maybe less), so I can't test very much my single version... you're testing multiple versions, so you might have more chances than me at this format ^^
I think I'll be making this switch in my deck too. The damage off of Orim's chant is very nice, but killing both an artifact and an enchantment for 1 less is too good to pass up.
What do you suggest dropping to make room for Initiative?
I think probably Voyager Staff, it's the closest card in function. Both are flicker effects that sit on the board ahead of time.
Voyager Staff:
- Recurable with Sun Titan.
- Able to exile opponent's creatures in a pinch.
Legion's Initiative
- Anthem effect before use.
- Saves all your guys instead of one.
- Returns them before combat instead of EOT so you can swing with any haste.
I think probably Voyager Staff, it's the closest card in function. Both are flicker effects that sit on the board ahead of time.
Voyager Staff:
- Recurable with Sun Titan.
- Able to exile opponent's creatures in a pinch.
Legion's Initiative
- Anthem effect before use.
- Saves all your guys instead of one.
- Returns them before combat instead of EOT so you can swing with any haste.
I think Soulscour would probably be the one to remove. Having a Ghostway effect without an Apocalypse card is still pretty useful, while having an Apocalypse card without a Ghostway effect is much less so. So I'd probably rather have an extra Ghostway at the cost of one less Apocalypse spell.
Soulscour is also the Apocalypse spell most likely to not take someone out of the game. The lack of artifact destruction means a mana-rock heavy deck might still be in the game.
EDH Decks
BGGlissa, the TraitorGB
URTibor and LumiaRU
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticBUW
UBSygg, River CutthroatBU
RGXenagos, God of RevelsGR
UGVorel of the Hull CladeGU
GBSavra, Queen of the GolgariBG
URGMaelstrom WandererGRU
Or 18
I dont think its a big deal is Gisela bites the dust if all your opponents do at the same time as well.
...and chain reaction was just a suggestion to get the point across- something like starstorm is probably better
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
Your point here, I was reading Repercussion wrong.
With or without Gisela, my gameplan is to have the upside in summoning creatures, wipe the board and go to town.
Using Repercussion, a board wipe based on damage could even draw the game on the spot and is not following the gameplan in any case.
Therefore, I will "no, thanks" your suggestion again but I'm glad you named the card because I'm just a tiny player somewhere in the world.
Also, to better combat green mages and their Eldrazi, I've made the following changes:
WMD land destruction version & NO BOWLS "friendly" version:
Added
Terminus
Removed
Inferno
I'd like to address Kiki and Craterhoof Behemoth. I'm thinking of making room for Safe Passage to do so.
Thoughts?
Behemoth is green and Gisela doesn't like spinach for dinner. I'm surprised you named the creature, maybe you were too happy for Sheldon's quote.
During my playtesting, I'm often battling with a single creature and this is not what Kiki-Jiki helps for, so I don't think it's good for this deck. Moreover, it's not an Angel!
I prefer to keep Inferno over Terminus because it can damage the opponent as well.
Moreover, if you would like to know it, in my deck I dropped Steelshaper's Gift for Mana Crypt and I substituted Mana Vault with Basalt Monolith but I would try to place Thran Dynamo on that slot instead.
I didn't see you commenting my list, it would be cool if you could post a comment about it.
I can't damage the opponent if I'm too busy sacrificing permanents to Annihilator Eldrazi triggers. Gisela does enough damage on her own, besides.
Huh. How are the switches working for you?
I will after Obama's speech tonight!
I can do without a graveyard if it means denying Karador players theirs. No, we're talking about protecting Gisela from being tucked/stolen. […]
How has your build played out for you so far?
Again, major props on this endeavor! Probably my favorite deck at the moment.
I replaced Sword of War and Peace with Sword of Feast and Famine when I developed the WMD variant and doubled the amount of mass land destruction spells found in the original deck (No Bowls "friendly" version). Although I was primarily interested in maximizing the deck's limited mana resources, I quickly began to appreciate the Voltron-factor when my angel was equipped with both Swords and only susceptible to white removal/blockers. In addition, black and green are far more popular colors in my meta than white. If I had room for another Sword, though, SoWP would be at the top of my list.
Thanks again!
APOCALYPSE version:
Added
Jokulhaups
Chromatic Lantern
Removed
Worldfire
Caged Sun
WMD land destruction version & NO BOWLS "friendly" version:
Added
Chromatic Lantern
Removed
Caged Sun
I've been testing Chimeric's Control version of Gisela against a variety of decks, and I've found some major flaws I'd like to point out that some of you might take into consideration if you're looking to play this deck more.
As a list:
Out:
In:
Girls to be considered (Haven't tried them, but have potential):
Special mention to:
There are some more lesser considerations, but they are for a future time and after further analysis of the changes I've been considering for this deck.
Later,
PlasmaBeam.
Added
Gideon, Champion of Justice
Boros Charm
Removed
Ignorant Bliss
Darksteel Plate
WMD land destruction & NO BOWLS "friendly"version:
Added
Aurelia's Fury
Removed
Comet Storm
SEVEN BOWLS aggro-instants version:
Added
Aurelia's Fury
Boros Charm
Removed
Comet Storm
Seething Song
Gideon, Champion of Justice can't even find a home in Constructed, why do you think it would be welcome in this EDH deck? Isn't it strictly worse than Gideon Jura, just to make an example?
Gideon 2.0 acts as both defense and offense in the Apocalypse version of Judgment Day. He either draws attacks to himself and away from the player, or he acts as second copy of Apocalypse. If he gets to swing for damage before/after, that's just icing on the cake.
Obviously, he doesn't have a place in the other Judgment Day variants, but he more than holds his own in the Apocalypse version.
Thanks for the answer! You have a good memory, I still follow this thread but my EDH Gisela has not performed very much lately. I don't know your habits, but my EDH average is to a game per month (maybe less), so I can't test very much my single version... you're testing multiple versions, so you might have more chances than me at this format ^^
Cheers, and happy Easter!
Also, I'm considering dropping Orim's Thunder for the new Fuse card Wear // Tear. Thoughts?
This seems to fit perfectly. It's a Ghostway that serves as an anthem effect until you need it.
I think I'll be making this switch in my deck too. The damage off of Orim's chant is very nice, but killing both an artifact and an enchantment for 1 less is too good to pass up.
EDH Decks
BGGlissa, the TraitorGB
URTibor and LumiaRU
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticBUW
UBSygg, River CutthroatBU
RGXenagos, God of RevelsGR
UGVorel of the Hull CladeGU
GBSavra, Queen of the GolgariBG
URGMaelstrom WandererGRU
I think probably Voyager Staff, it's the closest card in function. Both are flicker effects that sit on the board ahead of time.
Voyager Staff:
- Recurable with Sun Titan.
- Able to exile opponent's creatures in a pinch.
Legion's Initiative
- Anthem effect before use.
- Saves all your guys instead of one.
- Returns them before combat instead of EOT so you can swing with any haste.
EDH Decks
BGGlissa, the TraitorGB
URTibor and LumiaRU
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticBUW
UBSygg, River CutthroatBU
RGXenagos, God of RevelsGR
UGVorel of the Hull CladeGU
GBSavra, Queen of the GolgariBG
URGMaelstrom WandererGRU
Good points all! What are your thoughts on switching out Sudden Disappearance or Soulscour instead of the Staff?
I think Soulscour would probably be the one to remove. Having a Ghostway effect without an Apocalypse card is still pretty useful, while having an Apocalypse card without a Ghostway effect is much less so. So I'd probably rather have an extra Ghostway at the cost of one less Apocalypse spell.
Soulscour is also the Apocalypse spell most likely to not take someone out of the game. The lack of artifact destruction means a mana-rock heavy deck might still be in the game.
EDH Decks
BGGlissa, the TraitorGB
URTibor and LumiaRU
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticBUW
UBSygg, River CutthroatBU
RGXenagos, God of RevelsGR
UGVorel of the Hull CladeGU
GBSavra, Queen of the GolgariBG
URGMaelstrom WandererGRU
Added
Legion's Initiative
Removed
Soulscour
WMD land destruction, NO BOWLS "friendly"version, & SEVEN BOWLS aggro-instants version:
Added
Wear // Tear
Removed
Orim's Thunder
Added
Darksteel Ingot
Thran Dynamo
Hall of the Bandit Lord
Removed
Insurrection
Anger
Mountain
NO BOWLS budget version:
Added
Boros Guildgate
Slayers' Stronghold
Removed
2 Mountain
SEVEN BOWLS aggro-instants version:
Added
Chromatic Lantern
Hall of the Bandit Lord
Removed
Insurrection
Mountain