WMD land destruction version: Added
Godo, Bandit Warlord
Austere Command
Caged Sun
Relic of Progenitus
Boseiju, Who Shelters All Removed Tithe
Earthquake
Steelshaper's Gift
Tormod's Crypt
Plains
NO BOWLS "friendly" version: Added
Godo, Bandit Warlord
Austere Command
Caged Sun
Relic of Progenitus
Boseiju, Who Shelters All Removed
Tithe
Earthquake
Gift of Estates
Tormod's Crypt
Plains
SEVEN BOWLS aggro-instants version: Added
Godo, Bandit Warlord
Austere Command
Relic of Progenitus
Boseiju, Who Shelters All Removed
Tithe
Earthquake
Tormod's Crypt
Plains
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There are no divisions: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28
How do you feel about the new Sublime Archangel, Pisces? I often find myself in a position where I have a board of one or two big beaters and a handful of smaller guys or tokens. The Archangel gives all the smaller guys something to do by giving Gisela or whoever a little more oomph. Also, her name is about on-flavor as you can get for your build.
I'm going to test her if I can get a hold of one on the cheap after the M13 release.
How do you feel about the new Sublime Archangel, Pisces? I often find myself in a position where I have a board of one or two big beaters and a handful of smaller guys or tokens. The Archangel gives all the smaller guys something to do by giving Gisela or whoever a little more oomph. Also, her name is about on-flavor as you can get for your build.
I'm going to test her if I can get a hold of one on the cheap after the M13 release.
The Archangel is a better fit for your build than mine since you're running Kher Keep and Springjack Pasture. It's rare that I have more than one creature on the board, especially since dropping Entreat. If you'd like to test Sublime Archangel before purchasing, play a few games on Cockatrice (for free). You can download the M13 patch by following the instructions here. Just be sure to let other players know beforehand that you're playing with M13 cards. You can find me there under the same screen name, too!
To all versions except APOCALYPSE & NO BOWLS budget version: Added
Catastrophe
Removed
Destructive Force (without Gisela, this card has minimal impact in longer games)
APOCALYPSE version: Added
Stranglehold
Sun Titan
Terminus
Path to Exile
Final Judgment
Return to Dust (don't know how I overlooked this in the first place)
Twilight Shepherd
Karmic Guide
Removed
Destructive Force
Dimensional Breach
Razia's Purification
Resurrection
Ajani Vengeant
Darksteel Forge (limited synergy with the rest of the deck)
Indomitable Archangel (ditto)
Platinum Angel (ditto)
Can I say that it's pretty nuts that you've got several versions of your deck for specific needs, all of which are on-theme? That's dedication, friend.
Good call on Godo, Bandit Warlord. It was an auto-include for me from the start, but that's mostly because he was previously my mono-red Commander. Being insanely useful for fetching from the equip toolbox ain't too shabby, either.
Anyway, if I have time I should have my Gisela list up today. It's not super-cutthroat or great yet, but I do like it so far. I wasn't sure about having Wrath of God in mine, but having the foil textless version makes that decision for me. :3
Can I say that it's pretty nuts that you've got several versions of your deck for specific needs, all of which are on-theme? That's dedication, friend.
Good call on Godo, Bandit Warlord. It was an auto-include for me from the start, but that's mostly because he was previously my mono-red Commander. Being insanely useful for fetching from the equip toolbox ain't too shabby, either.
As you know, I wasn't initially sold on Godo. However, his synergy with some of my vigilant angels was just too good to pass up.
Anyway, if I have time I should have my Gisela list up today. It's not super-cutthroat or great yet, but I do like it so far. I wasn't sure about having Wrath of God in mine, but having the foil textless version makes that decision for me. :3
Wrath isn't fancy, but it is cheap, and sometimes that comes in handy when facing down a horde of tokens.
I was impressed by the impact the planeswalkers had in the APOCALYPSE version, enough so that I've made the following changes to the WMD, NO BOWLS, and SEVEN BOWLS aggro-instants versions:
Roar and howdy. So a few thoughts before I pass out from exhaustion, so this may be brief!
Ajani: A cool card, but the only super synergy I see here is with your general. Otherwise he's less than great. If you play him the turn before you play your general it gives people an entire turn to respond to him and you don't run enough creatures to defend him. Otherwise you should just be using the land that gives double strike, or haste and vigialance. You could replace this card with weathered wayfarer and profit. But you already run that card, so balls.
Elspeth, Elspeth, Gideon: Neither of these 3 have any synergy with the list. Gideon defends you, elspeth 1 makes your dude bigger and gives her a buff she already has, and elspeth 2 literally does nothing that works well with your deck.
Extraplanar Lens / Caged Sun: You run 8 basics, take these out. While caged sun is not restricted to basics, it is however restricted to 1 color of which you're running 2. Would you run a card that's half as good as it should be? I wouldn't. If you really need to double your mana, play mana flare and hope your opponents like it and don't kill you.
You need to find a wheel of fortune. Terrain Generator would also help if you get a lot of land in your hand regularly. You run a lot of ways to generate artifact mana but no way to get anything in play. I've had a ton of success with druidic satchel for some reason. Scroll rack and top make this all the better. Also, where's your top? Wayfarer's bauble is strictly better than 1 of your rocks, but I suppose it doesn't work if you blow up all lands.
Why are you trying to exile all creatures, artifacts, etc? Karmic Guide and Twilight Shepherd have little synergy. Most of "The End" cards are no good without "The Rapture". I know that's the theme and all, but there's 5 cards there that aren't good without 6 other cards, and > 10 mana. Especially in colors that don't generat mana super well and don't draw cards well at all these seems wasteful. I enjoy the theme you're working with, but trying to do it by playing cards that aren't good without others just seems silly. I try to minimize the number of cards that aren't good without other cards.
Roar and howdy. So a few thoughts before I pass out from exhaustion, so this may be brief!
Ajani: A cool card, but the only super synergy I see here is with your general. Otherwise he's less than great. If you play him the turn before you play your general it gives people an entire turn to respond to him and you don't run enough creatures to defend him. Otherwise you should just be using the land that gives double strike, or haste and vigialance. You could replace this card with weathered wayfarer and profit. But you already run that card, so balls.
Thanks for the continued feedback! This deck wouldn't be where it is without you.
Elspeth, Elspeth, Gideon: Neither of these 3 have any synergy with the list. Gideon defends you, elspeth 1 makes your dude bigger and gives her a buff she already has, and elspeth 2 literally does nothing that works well with your deck.
In the APOCALYPSE version, Gideon protects the other planeswalkers, protects me, and opens an opponent for an attack. (I did, however, drop him from other versions of Judgment Day.) Elspeth, Knight-Errant gives me a shot at her indestructibility emblem, which works great with half of my mass destruction spells. Elspeth Tirel provides defense in the form of chump blockers and/or lifegain in addition to the possibility of a sweep if I'm overwhelmed.
Extraplanar Lens / Caged Sun: You run 8 basics, take these out. While caged sun is not restricted to basics, it is however restricted to 1 color of which you're running 2. Would you run a card that's half as good as it should be? I wouldn't. If you really need to double your mana, play mana flare and hope your opponents like it and don't kill you.
The majority of my spells are either colorless or white and, so far, Lens and Sun have performed well in testing. In this deck, I view both spells as mana rocks, not mana doublers. I've been considering adjusting the deck's Plains:Mountain ratio to get more mileage out of Lens and Sun, but I'm going to give it a few more weeks of playtesting before making that decision.
You need to find a wheel of fortune. Terrain Generator would also help if you get a lot of land in your hand regularly. You run a lot of ways to generate artifact mana but no way to get anything in play. I've had a ton of success with druidic satchel for some reason. Scroll rack and top make this all the better. Also, where's your top? Wayfarer's bauble is strictly better than 1 of your rocks, but I suppose it doesn't work if you blow up all lands.
I don't often dump my hand playing this deck, so adding another Fortune effect seems like overkill. As for Top, I'm not a fan of shoving it into every deck. I do, however, like the idea of Terrain Generator. At the same time, I'd rather hold a few lands back if I'm planning to cycle Decree of Annihilation or cast Devastation.
Most of "The End" cards are no good without "The Rapture". I know that's the theme and all, but there's 5 cards there that aren't good without 6 other cards, and > 10 mana. Especially in colors that don't generat mana super well and don't draw cards well at all these seems wasteful. I enjoy the theme you're working with, but trying to do it by playing cards that aren't good without others just seems silly. I try to minimize the number of cards that aren't good without other cards.
Lands aren't good without spells, either. With so few tutors for "The End" cards, redundancy was necessary.
Remove? Elspeth, Knight-Errant (she only works in the APOCALYPSE version because of all the boardwipes) Mountain Akroma, Angel of Wrath (this possible change gives me the most pause and I would LOVE some input from folks on which Akroma is best for the deck; this might be dependent on one's meta, though)
Thanks in advance for the constructive criticism!
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There are no divisions: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28
EDIT: It's down to Web or Price and I'm leaning towards Mana Web. Moon, Instability, and 'Poise all allow blue mages to counter my spells. Price of Glory does, too, but at the very least it lets me nuke a few lands before it gets destroyed.
APOCALYPSE version: Added
Obliterate (Boseiju's effect already built-in)
Expedition Map (to tutor for Boseiju)
Mana Web (to get past counters)
Vedalken Orrery (to cast boardwipes at instant speed)
Akroma, Angel of Fury (to get past counters)
Cavern of Souls (to get past counters)
Removed
Devastation (leaves opponents with mana rocks)
Extraplanar Lens (not enough basic lands)
Grim Monolith (speed outweighed by untap cost)
Mana Vault (speed outweighed by untap cost)
Karmic Guide (not useful after most of the deck's boardwipes)
Mountain
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There are no divisions: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28
War's Toll isn't recursible with Sun Titan. I would consider adding it (to the APOCALYPSE version) as a "second" Web, though. What would you suggest dropping to make room (APOCALYPSE version only)?
Also, if you're looking to play board wipes at instant speed, you might want to include Rout
I already have Rout in the WMD version. I'm only concerned about instant speed in the APOCALYPSE version as I want to be able to cast Sudden Disappearance and Flickerform more effectively.
APOCALYPSE version: Added
Reliquary Tower (I am so over Jin-Gitaxias)
Sensei's Divining Top
Removed
Plains
Mountain
WMD land destruction version: Added
Expedition Map (Boseiju tutor)
Reliquary Tower
Cavern of Souls (to get past counters)
Akroma, Angel of Fury (to get past counters)
Mana Web (to get past counters)
Sensei's Divining Top
Removed
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Mountain
Plains
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Ajani, Caller of the Pride
NO BOWLS "friendly" version & SEVEN BOWLS aggro-instants version: Added
Reliquary Tower
Cavern of Souls
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Sensei's Divining Top
The current "JUDGMENT DAY: The Apocalypse" version is listing Expedition Map twice.
Also, my English is maybe not suited to all your language and metaphores in the first post of the thread, but I'm finding it extremely difficult to understand the different deck lists and find the one that inspires me the most.
If you pass me some humour, I could guess that the Map is listed twice because you're starting to get lost on your own, as well...
Also, my English is maybe not suited to all your language and metaphores in the first post of the thread, but I'm finding it extremely difficult to understand the different deck lists and find the one that inspires me the most.
Once you've done that, you've pretty much won the game.
WMD land destruction & No Bowls "friendly" versions
Clear the battlefield using sweeps like Wrath of God and Rout and targeted removal such as Chaos Warp and Path to Exile. Once the board is relatively clear, cast Gisela and immediately equip her with something granting shroud or hexproof, e.g. Lightning Greaves or Swiftfoot Boots. On the next turn, cast a mass destruction spell like Armageddon or Razia's Purification.
Once you've done that, you've pretty much won the game.
Seven Bowls aggro-control version
Again, clear the board of opponents' creatures. Equip Gisela with Swiftfoot Boots or one of the Swords of X and Y for protection from removal. Attack. If no blockers, cast a spell like Soul's Fire or Overblaze.
Once you've done that, you've probably killed off at least one opponent.
Please let me know if this helped at all and/or if you'd like me to go into more detail. I welcome any and all questions!
APOCALYPSE version:
Added
Magmaquake (to defend against planeswalker control)
Removed
Basalt Monolith
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There are no divisions: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28
Please let me know if this helped at all and/or if you'd like me to go into more detail. I welcome any and all questions!
Things are much more understandable now, thank you!!
My meta is scarcely interested in Commander, and it's very rare to go multiplayer, so I'm now taking suggestions from the 1vs1 list (number five in your first post), but I think I will produce my own list based on the cards I own
There are questions, tough, that I'm trying to understand myself.
1 - Emeria, the Sky Ruin scarcely triggers in a deck with so few Plains: you have 7 basics plus Plateau and Sacred Foundry, do you really happen to trigger Emeria often?
2 - I own some very powerful white cards and I would like to test them out, I'd like to know if you did that already: Karmic Guide, Karmic Justice, Akroma, Angel of Wrath, Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 - Same for red, with cards like Inferno Titan and Bonfire of the Damned.
4 - Maybe it's only meta-based, but Homeward Path may be an inclusion if there's a list of Bribery-like spells in the opponent's decks. Your idea on this matter?
5 - What do you ideally want to copy with Reverberate-like spells in the list?
6 - What do you ideally name for Cavern of Souls? Angel?
7 - With all those destroy effects, have you ever considered Darksteel Ingot for mana ramping? It seems more powerful than, say, Seething Song in the list.
As an overall thought I'm having while building out the deck, I can see that CMCs are really high in average so I'm worried against faster decks and about mana ramping, which is normmally a greenish characteristics. The game plan is written on the wall as soon as Gisela is shown as a General, but reaching 10+ mana in play seems a long game plan to me: that's why I'll definitely try to free a slot for Crystal Ball at the very least (or even Staff of Nin for cheaper assistance).
PS: good suggestion to use Magmaquake, I just pulled a FOIL version in my last draft... eheheh
My meta is scarcely interested in Commander, and it's very rare to go multiplayer, so I'm now taking suggestions from the 1vs1 list (number five in your first post), but I think I will produce my own list based on the cards I own
Remember, my 1v1 list does not follow the French rules (which you can find here). If you want to make the deck legal for official 1v1 games, you'll have to remove the following cards:
There are questions, tough, that I'm trying to understand myself.
1 - Emeria, the Sky Ruin scarcely triggers in a deck with so few Plains: you have 7 basics plus Plateau and Sacred Foundry, do you really happen to trigger Emeria often?
No, Emeria doesn't trigger often. However, if you already own the card, go ahead and include it. It's not necessary, though.
I run Guide in a different style Gisela deck, focused on creature damage. The only Judgment Day version I've tested it in was the APOCALYPSE build and I wasn't thrilled with it. I feel that Defy Death and Miraculous Recovery are contextually stronger choices.
Justice isn't a bad choice, but I'd rather get any of my permanents back after a sweep using Faith's Reward.
Akroma's a fine card. I only removed it because of space constraints. However, I do find red Akroma more useful.
Unless you're going to cheat her into play with recursion, I feel that Iona is too expensive.
4 - Maybe it's only meta-based, but Homeward Path may be an inclusion if there's a list of Bribery-like spells in the opponent's decks. Your idea on this matter?
Again, this was a space issue. It's important that the deck not dilute its mana base with too many colorless mana-producing lands. While getting bribed isn't fun for anyone, Judgment Day runs enough targeted removal to deal with opposing creatures, even traitors to the deck's glorious cause.
5 - What do you ideally want to copy with Reverberate-like spells in the list?
Wild Ricochet is great because, as Bismuth von Pherson put it, "It's [Reverberate] and Misdirection all in one." As for Reverberate itself, it's good for copying the following Judgment Day spells:
You'll "ideally" want to copy the spell that will help you the most at that moment. Close to winning through damage? Copy Inferno or an entwined Grab the Reins. Don't have a sweep in hand? Copy Chaos Warp or a (kicked) Orim's Thunder. Need a lot of mana fast? Copy Seething Song. Need to "voltron" Gisela? Copy Enlightened Tutor or Steelshaper's Gift.
7 - With all those destroy effects, have you ever considered Darksteel Ingot for mana ramping? It seems more powerful than, say, Seething Song in the list.
Take another look at Judgment Day's "Holy Relics". See that? Uh huh, all of them are capable of producing two (or more) mana. Furthermore, Austere Command is the only sweep in the deck that would destroy our mana rocks. Finally, Seething Song provides a much faster boost. Even without Seething Song, I have cast Gisela on TURN THREE(!) (1st turn Sol Ring, 2nd turn Coalition Relic, & 3 lands). Coincidentally, that same game I cast Armageddon on turn four. If I'd drawn Seething Song, too, I could've potentially equipped Gisela with Lightning Greaves.
As an overall thought I'm having while building out the deck, I can see that CMCs are really high in average so I'm worried against faster decks and about mana ramping, which is normmally a greenish characteristics. The game plan is written on the wall as soon as Gisela is shown as a General, but reaching 10+ mana in play seems a long game plan to me: that's why I'll definitely try to free a slot for Crystal Ball at the very least (or even Staff of Nin for cheaper assistance).
You don't need 10+ mana in play to win with this deck. You need an equipped Gisela on the battlefield and removal in hand, be it mass or targeted.
A quick answer, for the moment: I have just finished assembling my deck, I went out following the third version with an eye towards the second version. Some choices have been made for budget, like Scroll Rack not entering the list, and others for my choice, like the Judgement Day you commented.
I still want to fix it, and recover some 4-5 cards I'm missing. When I will have some playtest with my version, I will surely update you on this thread.
The most important thing I would say now is that I chose not to build the deck towards 1vs1 play: I already have two decks for that use, so I decided to make a deck for multiplayer purpose. My only guess, so far, is that I won't make many friends after Armageddon comes out of my hand...
I have finished to build my EDH Gisela minutes ago and I wanted to give an extended report on my thoughts for the deck. I have somehow browsed the thread following the discussions, but I eventually decided to think on my own and therefore I apologize if something will be repeated (credits to previous posters, if any!)
My starting point was the so-called "No Bowls friendly mid-range control version", but it eventually shifted to the "WMD ultra-control version". Kidding and resuming, I went between Version 2 and Version 3, so you may consider this a "Version Two Point Five"
Please note: while I'm writing this, the "No Bowls friendly mid-range control version" is listing 100 cards in the list on the left and 101 cards in the ordered list on the right: blame on the Mountains, which are shown 7x on the left and 8x on the right. That gave me a headache until I eventually sorted things out.
Comparing the deck with the current "No Bowls friendly mid-range control version", a few changes have been made:
Out ==> In ==> Reason
Hokori, Dust Drinker ==> Twilight Shepherd ==> I feel bad running Hokori because is a soft lock for lands, it could backfire whenever they hit an EOT removal. The Shepherd is an Angel (which is a bonus!) with awesome stats and can give us a strong rebirth after a mass removal, especially if there's an opponent out there who wants to cast it on us.
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage ==> Karmic Guide ==> I'm following nurse.jason's advice here: we have very little card draw, we can't discard so easily here. The Guide on the opposite can recur a creature and offer a pro-black action on board if necessary. Well, it's not an Angel... but it comes quite close
Blasphemous Act ==> Molten Disaster ==> Unless I'm failing at Maths, the Act kills Gisela on the spot and that's not in my dreams, especially since it doesn't hit players as Disaster does. The possibility to Split Second the damage is a bonus we might need at certain times.
Devastation ==> Decree of Annihilation ==> Decree offers the possibility to Exile permanents, which could be useful if things get wrong (and Greater Gargadon is suspended), but mostly I consider it for the Cycling part, which runs at instant speed for those very few cases that we need it.
Entreat the Angels ==> Cataclysm ==> Now, Entreat is a hell of a card, especially when Miracles happen: but we have few possibilities of drawing this out of our turns, which kills the surprise effect. Also, since we're playing multiplayer here, and we don't counter spells as a job, this means each player will have chances to solve the puzzle and make an Angel slaughter. I would suggest another mass removal in this slot, and Cataclysm is a close relative to Razia's Purification, even at a lower CMC.
Stranglehold ==> War's Toll ==> This was a tough choice but I prefer to lock their current actions instead of locking their library searches. I'm kind of convinced that counterspells scare us more than any permanent, so maybe Stranglehold can rotate out for good.
True Conviction ==> Order // Chaos ==> Conviction is a win-more, but we can sacrifice it for a split card that can work out as either a removal or a win-more in the same slot. Bonus: it's searchable with Sunforger, in which case it could be quite an ace in the sleeve. Or maybe two aces.
Caged Sun ==> Global Ruin ==> I love the Caged Sun as much as I dislike it in the game: unless you're controlling the board in every single corner, this artifact can easily become a Time Walk on us for each opponent. It will be awesome to untap with an active Sun, but we're far from taking things for sure. The Ruin is another sweeper, although I admit it could be changed with another removal card. It will be playtested, while my heart gets knocked by the Jokulhaups in my binder.
Relic of Progenitus ==> Rout ==> I'd like to keep Anger and Glory safe in my graveyard, thanks. And if I could have a possibly instant-speed wrath, then so be it.
Miren, the Moaning Well ==> Darksteel Citadel ==> While talking colorless, I don't think we need a sacrifice outlet as much as we need an indestructible land with all the sweepers we play in the deck. And if we're talking about Word of Seizing synergies here, that's a long and convolute way to kill a single creature.
Mistveil Plains ==> Ancient Amphitheater ==> While talking tapped ETB lands (unless Sun Titan sneaks around), I would prefer a dual land on a land that maybe recovers an instant that could be possibly searched by Sunforger. I admit, tough, that Amphiteater could substitute a basic Plains as well, and I could see me doing that anytime soon.
At the time I'm writing this, this deck is freshly assembled and never tested out. It eventually will, when normal people returns from holidays sometime soon: expect some updates, and in the meanwhile, we can discuss all this.
PS: I'm not posting the cards that didn't make the cut, since the post is detailed enough as it is, but if anybody cares about them, I could do that.
Chain Reaction is way weaker than Inferno or other board sweepers, and (as I said) Blasphemous Act is capable to kill Gisela on the spot, that's why I don't play them.
Having said that, Repercussion is an Enchantment that does nothing on its own and needs to combo with something else. Plus, if they block my Greater Gargadon with a Birds of Paradise, I take 9 damage for killing a Bird and my opponent will mock me for a full day. Seriously: no, thanks
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1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
PROPHETIC VISIONS
1 Mind's Eye
"AND I, JOHN,
SAW THE HOLY CITY,
NEW JERUSALEM,
COMING DOWN FROM
GOD OUT OF HEAVEN"
1 Weathered Wayfarer
"AND I SAW A NEW HEAVEN
AND A NEW EARTH:
FOR THE FIRST HEAVEN
AND THE FIRST EARTH
WERE PASSED AWAY"
1 Crucible of Worlds
STREETS PAVED WITH GOLD
(THIRTY-NINE LANDS)
1 Command Tower
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Mistveil Plains
10 Plains
1 Spinerock Knoll
9 Mountain
1 Plateau
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Boros Garrison
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Arid Mesa
1 Strip Mine
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Kor Haven
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Ancient Den
1 Great Furnace
TITHING
1 Land Tax
1 Tithe
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Caged Sun
1 Sol Ring
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mana Vault
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Coalition Relic
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Basalt Monolith
"THE ROCK ETERNAL"
1 Darksteel Forge
SIGNS AND WONDERS
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Steelshaper's Gift
"HIS WORD IS LIKE FIRE,
LIKE A HAMMER THAT
BREAKS THE ROCK"
1 Sunforger
"BEHOLD, THE LION
OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH"
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1 Ajani Vengeant
ONWARD, CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Gideon Jura
"A SCROLL, SEALED
WITH SEVEN SEALS"
1 Scroll Rack
THE END
1 Worldfire
1 Apocalypse
1 Decree of Annihilation
1 Austere Command
1 Razia's Purification
1 Destructive Force
1 Devastation
1 Soulscour
1 Dimensional Breach
1 Voyager Staff
1 Otherworldly Journey
1 Ghostway
1 Liberate
1 Sudden Disappearance
THE SEVEN ARCHANGELS
1 Adarkar Valkyrie
1 Deathless Angel
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath (1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence?)
1 Admonition Angel
1 Indomitable Archangel
1 Platinum Angel
ANGELIC RAIMENTS
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Darksteel Plate
FLAMING SWORDS
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
"BEHOLD! A GREAT
RED DRAGON"
1 Worldgorger Dragon
"THE BEAST THAT ASCENDETH
OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT
SHALL MAKE WAR AGAINST THEM,
AND SHALL OVERCOME THEM,
AND SHALL KILL THEM"
1 Greater Gargadon
"AND THEY SHALL TURN AWAY
THEIR EARS FROM THE TRUTH"
1 Ignorant Bliss
"THE GRAVE SHALL
GIVE UP HER DEAD"
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Resurrection
"AND THERE SHALL BE
NO MORE DEATH"
1 Swords to Plowshares
ARMAGEDDON,
THE LAST BATTLE
1 Insurrection
I'd like to make room for Faith's Reward, Flickerform, Godo, Bandit Warlord, Rift Bolt, Benalish Commander, Riftmarked Knight, Arc Blade, and maybe even Staggershock. Any ideas on what I can drop to do so?
APOCALYPSE combo version:
Added
Godo, Bandit Warlord
Flickerform
Relic of Progenitus
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Removed
Steelshaper's Gift
Tithe
Tormod's Crypt
Plains
WMD land destruction version:
Added
Godo, Bandit Warlord
Austere Command
Caged Sun
Relic of Progenitus
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Removed
Tithe
Earthquake
Steelshaper's Gift
Tormod's Crypt
Plains
NO BOWLS "friendly" version:
Added
Godo, Bandit Warlord
Austere Command
Caged Sun
Relic of Progenitus
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Removed
Tithe
Earthquake
Gift of Estates
Tormod's Crypt
Plains
SEVEN BOWLS aggro-instants version:
Added
Godo, Bandit Warlord
Austere Command
Relic of Progenitus
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Removed
Tithe
Earthquake
Tormod's Crypt
Plains
To all versions except APOCALYPSE version:
Added
1x Plains
1x Mountain
WMD land destruction version & SEVEN BOWLS aggro-instants version:
Removed
Entreat the Angels
True Conviction
NO BOWLS "friendly" version:
Removed
Steelshaper's Gift
Whispersilk Cloak
NO BOWLS budget version:
Removed
Steelshaper's Apprentice
No-Dachi
Cutting Entreat the Angels and True Conviction was a difficult decision, but I think it's best for those versions.
I'm going to test her if I can get a hold of one on the cheap after the M13 release.
stuff
To all versions except APOCALYPSE & NO BOWLS budget version:
Added
Catastrophe
Removed
Destructive Force (without Gisela, this card has minimal impact in longer games)
APOCALYPSE version:
Added
Stranglehold
Sun Titan
Terminus
Path to Exile
Final Judgment
Return to Dust (don't know how I overlooked this in the first place)
Twilight Shepherd
Karmic Guide
Removed
Destructive Force
Dimensional Breach
Razia's Purification
Resurrection
Ajani Vengeant
Darksteel Forge (limited synergy with the rest of the deck)
Indomitable Archangel (ditto)
Platinum Angel (ditto)
Good call on Godo, Bandit Warlord. It was an auto-include for me from the start, but that's mostly because he was previously my mono-red Commander. Being insanely useful for fetching from the equip toolbox ain't too shabby, either.
Anyway, if I have time I should have my Gisela list up today. It's not super-cutthroat or great yet, but I do like it so far. I wasn't sure about having Wrath of God in mine, but having the foil textless version makes that decision for me. :3
Edit - Here it is, in case it gets bumped off the front page too quickly: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=429240
Commander/EDH Decks:
BRG The Blood of Jund - Kresh the Bloodbraided BRG
WR The Blades of Goldnight - Gisela, Blade of Goldnight WR
As you know, I wasn't initially sold on Godo. However, his synergy with some of my vigilant angels was just too good to pass up.
Wrath isn't fancy, but it is cheap, and sometimes that comes in handy when facing down a horde of tokens.
I was impressed by the impact the planeswalkers had in the APOCALYPSE version, enough so that I've made the following changes to the WMD, NO BOWLS, and SEVEN BOWLS aggro-instants versions:
Added
Removed
Ajani: A cool card, but the only super synergy I see here is with your general. Otherwise he's less than great. If you play him the turn before you play your general it gives people an entire turn to respond to him and you don't run enough creatures to defend him. Otherwise you should just be using the land that gives double strike, or haste and vigialance. You could replace this card with weathered wayfarer and profit. But you already run that card, so balls.
Elspeth, Elspeth, Gideon: Neither of these 3 have any synergy with the list. Gideon defends you, elspeth 1 makes your dude bigger and gives her a buff she already has, and elspeth 2 literally does nothing that works well with your deck.
Extraplanar Lens / Caged Sun: You run 8 basics, take these out. While caged sun is not restricted to basics, it is however restricted to 1 color of which you're running 2. Would you run a card that's half as good as it should be? I wouldn't. If you really need to double your mana, play mana flare and hope your opponents like it and don't kill you.
You need to find a wheel of fortune. Terrain Generator would also help if you get a lot of land in your hand regularly. You run a lot of ways to generate artifact mana but no way to get anything in play. I've had a ton of success with druidic satchel for some reason. Scroll rack and top make this all the better. Also, where's your top? Wayfarer's bauble is strictly better than 1 of your rocks, but I suppose it doesn't work if you blow up all lands.
Why are you trying to exile all creatures, artifacts, etc? Karmic Guide and Twilight Shepherd have little synergy. Most of "The End" cards are no good without "The Rapture". I know that's the theme and all, but there's 5 cards there that aren't good without 6 other cards, and > 10 mana. Especially in colors that don't generat mana super well and don't draw cards well at all these seems wasteful. I enjoy the theme you're working with, but trying to do it by playing cards that aren't good without others just seems silly. I try to minimize the number of cards that aren't good without other cards.
hopefully I was of some service! <3
I only play Ajani, Caller of the Pride when he's either defensible or I'm planning on doing something that turn, and I typically cast him when Gisela's already on the battlefield. I already run both Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion and Slayers' Stronghold.
In the APOCALYPSE version, Gideon protects the other planeswalkers, protects me, and opens an opponent for an attack. (I did, however, drop him from other versions of Judgment Day.) Elspeth, Knight-Errant gives me a shot at her indestructibility emblem, which works great with half of my mass destruction spells. Elspeth Tirel provides defense in the form of chump blockers and/or lifegain in addition to the possibility of a sweep if I'm overwhelmed.
The majority of my spells are either colorless or white and, so far, Lens and Sun have performed well in testing. In this deck, I view both spells as mana rocks, not mana doublers. I've been considering adjusting the deck's Plains:Mountain ratio to get more mileage out of Lens and Sun, but I'm going to give it a few more weeks of playtesting before making that decision.
I don't often dump my hand playing this deck, so adding another Fortune effect seems like overkill. As for Top, I'm not a fan of shoving it into every deck. I do, however, like the idea of Terrain Generator. At the same time, I'd rather hold a few lands back if I'm planning to cycle Decree of Annihilation or cast Devastation.
Well, that's kinda how the deck wins…
They both have a lot more synergy with the deck's boardwipes than the cards they replaced: Platinum Angel and Indomitable Archangel.
Lands aren't good without spells, either. With so few tutors for "The End" cards, redundancy was necessary.
Always! What's your feedback on the WMD version?
WMD land destruction version & NO BOWLS "friendly" version:
Added
Faith's Reward
Removed
Gideon Jura
Which Judgment Day variant are you using? I'm taking the WMD version with me today to my friendly local game store.
Also, do you play on Cockatrice? I have the same screen name there.
To all versions except APOCALYPSE & NO BOWLS budget version:
Add?
Expedition Map (to search up Boseiju, Who Shelters All)
Cavern of Souls (set to "Angel", obviously)
Akroma, Angel of Fury (to get through counters and dodge cards like Blatant Thievery and Gilded Drake)
Remove?
Elspeth, Knight-Errant (she only works in the APOCALYPSE version because of all the boardwipes)
Mountain
Akroma, Angel of Wrath (this possible change gives me the most pause and I would LOVE some input from folks on which Akroma is best for the deck; this might be dependent on one's meta, though)
Thanks in advance for the constructive criticism!
Blood Moon, Price of Glory,Tectonic Instability,Equipoise, or Mana Web? I'd be dropping Ajani, Caller of the Pride to do so.EDIT: It's down to Web or Price and I'm leaning towards Mana Web. Moon, Instability, and 'Poise all allow blue mages to counter my spells. Price of Glory does, too, but at the very least it lets me nuke a few lands before it gets destroyed.
Added
Obliterate (Boseiju's effect already built-in)
Expedition Map (to tutor for Boseiju)
Mana Web (to get past counters)
Vedalken Orrery (to cast boardwipes at instant speed)
Akroma, Angel of Fury (to get past counters)
Cavern of Souls (to get past counters)
Removed
Devastation (leaves opponents with mana rocks)
Extraplanar Lens (not enough basic lands)
Grim Monolith (speed outweighed by untap cost)
Mana Vault (speed outweighed by untap cost)
Karmic Guide (not useful after most of the deck's boardwipes)
Mountain
Also, if you're looking to play board wipes at instant speed, you might want to include Rout
I already have Rout in the WMD version. I'm only concerned about instant speed in the APOCALYPSE version as I want to be able to cast Sudden Disappearance and Flickerform more effectively.
APOCALYPSE version:
Added
Reliquary Tower (I am so over Jin-Gitaxias)
Sensei's Divining Top
Removed
Plains
Mountain
WMD land destruction version:
Added
Expedition Map (Boseiju tutor)
Reliquary Tower
Cavern of Souls (to get past counters)
Akroma, Angel of Fury (to get past counters)
Mana Web (to get past counters)
Sensei's Divining Top
Removed
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Mountain
Plains
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Ajani, Caller of the Pride
NO BOWLS "friendly" version & SEVEN BOWLS aggro-instants version:
Added
Reliquary Tower
Cavern of Souls
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Sensei's Divining Top
Removed
2 Mountain
Plains
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
NO BOWLS budget version:
Added
Reliquary Tower
Removed
Mountain
Added
Final Judgment
Removed
Fault Line
NO BOWLS "friendly" version & SEVEN BOWLS aggro-instants version:
Added
Final Judgment
Removed
Catastrophe
Also, my English is maybe not suited to all your language and metaphores in the first post of the thread, but I'm finding it extremely difficult to understand the different deck lists and find the one that inspires me the most.
If you pass me some humour, I could guess that the Map is listed twice because you're starting to get lost on your own, as well...
Here's a (slightly) more detailed breakdown (without metaphors):
APOCALYPSE combo version
Control the board with spells like Austere Command and Final Judgment while continuing to cast artifact mana sources like Sol Ring and Gilded Lotus. Depending on which of the following mass destruction spells you draw (Worldfire, Apocalypse, Decree of Annihilation, Obliterate, or Soulscour), wait until you have
WMD land destruction & No Bowls "friendly" versions
Clear the battlefield using sweeps like Wrath of God and Rout and targeted removal such as Chaos Warp and Path to Exile. Once the board is relatively clear, cast Gisela and immediately equip her with something granting shroud or hexproof, e.g. Lightning Greaves or Swiftfoot Boots. On the next turn, cast a mass destruction spell like Armageddon or Razia's Purification.
Once you've done that, you've pretty much won the game.
Seven Bowls aggro-control version
Again, clear the board of opponents' creatures. Equip Gisela with Swiftfoot Boots or one of the Swords of X and Y for protection from removal. Attack. If no blockers, cast a spell like Soul's Fire or Overblaze.
Once you've done that, you've probably killed off at least one opponent.
Please let me know if this helped at all and/or if you'd like me to go into more detail. I welcome any and all questions!
APOCALYPSE version:
Added
Magmaquake (to defend against planeswalker control)
Removed
Basalt Monolith
Things are much more understandable now, thank you!!
My meta is scarcely interested in Commander, and it's very rare to go multiplayer, so I'm now taking suggestions from the 1vs1 list (number five in your first post), but I think I will produce my own list based on the cards I own
There are questions, tough, that I'm trying to understand myself.
1 - Emeria, the Sky Ruin scarcely triggers in a deck with so few Plains: you have 7 basics plus Plateau and Sacred Foundry, do you really happen to trigger Emeria often?
2 - I own some very powerful white cards and I would like to test them out, I'd like to know if you did that already: Karmic Guide, Karmic Justice, Akroma, Angel of Wrath, Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 - Same for red, with cards like Inferno Titan and Bonfire of the Damned.
4 - Maybe it's only meta-based, but Homeward Path may be an inclusion if there's a list of Bribery-like spells in the opponent's decks. Your idea on this matter?
5 - What do you ideally want to copy with Reverberate-like spells in the list?
6 - What do you ideally name for Cavern of Souls? Angel?
7 - With all those destroy effects, have you ever considered Darksteel Ingot for mana ramping? It seems more powerful than, say, Seething Song in the list.
As an overall thought I'm having while building out the deck, I can see that CMCs are really high in average so I'm worried against faster decks and about mana ramping, which is normmally a greenish characteristics. The game plan is written on the wall as soon as Gisela is shown as a General, but reaching 10+ mana in play seems a long game plan to me: that's why I'll definitely try to free a slot for Crystal Ball at the very least (or even Staff of Nin for cheaper assistance).
PS: good suggestion to use Magmaquake, I just pulled a FOIL version in my last draft... eheheh
Remember, my 1v1 list does not follow the French rules (which you can find here). If you want to make the deck legal for official 1v1 games, you'll have to remove the following cards:
Here are my suggestions for substitutes:
No, Emeria doesn't trigger often. However, if you already own the card, go ahead and include it. It's not necessary, though.
I run Guide in a different style Gisela deck, focused on creature damage. The only Judgment Day version I've tested it in was the APOCALYPSE build and I wasn't thrilled with it. I feel that Defy Death and Miraculous Recovery are contextually stronger choices.
Justice isn't a bad choice, but I'd rather get any of my permanents back after a sweep using Faith's Reward.
Akroma's a fine card. I only removed it because of space constraints. However, I do find red Akroma more useful.
Unless you're going to cheat her into play with recursion, I feel that Iona is too expensive.
I'm not a fan of the red Titan in EDH. The card's power is only enhanced with a damage modifier, which you won't always have in play.
Since you're going for 1v1, Bonfire is an excellent choice!
Again, this was a space issue. It's important that the deck not dilute its mana base with too many colorless mana-producing lands. While getting bribed isn't fun for anyone, Judgment Day runs enough targeted removal to deal with opposing creatures, even traitors to the deck's glorious cause.
Wild Ricochet is great because, as Bismuth von Pherson put it, "It's [Reverberate] and Misdirection all in one." As for Reverberate itself, it's good for copying the following Judgment Day spells:
You'll "ideally" want to copy the spell that will help you the most at that moment. Close to winning through damage? Copy Inferno or an entwined Grab the Reins. Don't have a sweep in hand? Copy Chaos Warp or a (kicked) Orim's Thunder. Need a lot of mana fast? Copy Seething Song. Need to "voltron" Gisela? Copy Enlightened Tutor or Steelshaper's Gift.
Unequivocally, YES!
Take another look at Judgment Day's "Holy Relics". See that? Uh huh, all of them are capable of producing two (or more) mana. Furthermore, Austere Command is the only sweep in the deck that would destroy our mana rocks. Finally, Seething Song provides a much faster boost. Even without Seething Song, I have cast Gisela on TURN THREE(!) (1st turn Sol Ring, 2nd turn Coalition Relic, & 3 lands). Coincidentally, that same game I cast Armageddon on turn four. If I'd drawn Seething Song, too, I could've potentially equipped Gisela with Lightning Greaves.
You don't need 10+ mana in play to win with this deck. You need an equipped Gisela on the battlefield and removal in hand, be it mass or targeted.
NICE! My best foil pull recently was Sorin, Lord of Innistrad.
Please let me know how Judgment Day's been doing for you in the last week, and any other questions you have!
A quick answer, for the moment: I have just finished assembling my deck, I went out following the third version with an eye towards the second version. Some choices have been made for budget, like Scroll Rack not entering the list, and others for my choice, like the Judgement Day you commented.
I still want to fix it, and recover some 4-5 cards I'm missing. When I will have some playtest with my version, I will surely update you on this thread.
The most important thing I would say now is that I chose not to build the deck towards 1vs1 play: I already have two decks for that use, so I decided to make a deck for multiplayer purpose. My only guess, so far, is that I won't make many friends after Armageddon comes out of my hand...
I have finished to build my EDH Gisela minutes ago and I wanted to give an extended report on my thoughts for the deck. I have somehow browsed the thread following the discussions, but I eventually decided to think on my own and therefore I apologize if something will be repeated (credits to previous posters, if any!)
My starting point was the so-called "No Bowls friendly mid-range control version", but it eventually shifted to the "WMD ultra-control version". Kidding and resuming, I went between Version 2 and Version 3, so you may consider this a "Version Two Point Five"
Please note: while I'm writing this, the "No Bowls friendly mid-range control version" is listing 100 cards in the list on the left and 101 cards in the ordered list on the right: blame on the Mountains, which are shown 7x on the left and 8x on the right. That gave me a headache until I eventually sorted things out.
Version Two Point Five decklist:
1x Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Creatures (20):
1x Adarkar Valkyrie
1x Akroma, Angel of Fury
1x Anger
1x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Deathless Angel
1x Glory
1x Godo, Bandit Warlord
1x Greater Gargadon
1x Karmic Guide
1x Knollspine Dragon
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Nobilis of War
1x Stonehewer Giant
1x Sun Titan
1x Sunblast Angel
1x Twilight Sheperd
1x Weathered Wayfarer
Sorceries (12):
1x Armageddon
1x Austere Command
1x Cataclysm
1x Decree of Annihilation
1x Global Ruin
1x Molten Disaster
1x Final Judgment
1x Insurrection
1x Razia's Purification
1x Reforge the Soul
1x Steelshaper's Gift
1x Wrath of God
1x Chaos Warp
1x Comet Storm
1x Condemn
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Faith's Reward
1x Ghostway
1x Inferno
1x Order // Chaos
1x Orim's Thunder
1x Path to Exile
1x Return to Dust
1x Rout
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Wild Ricochet
1x Word of Seizing
Enchantments (2):
1x Land Tax
1x War's Toll
Planeswalkers (2):
1x Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Artifacts...
...Equipments (5):
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Sunforger
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
...Utility (4):
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Mind's Eye
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Coalition Relic
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
Lands (36):
1x Arid Mesa
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Boros Garrison
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Command Tower
1x Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1x Flagstones of Trokair
1x Kor Haven
1x Ancient Amphitheater
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Plateau
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Slayers' Stronghold
1x Spinerock Knoll
1x Strip Mine
1x Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
8x Plains
8x Mountains
Comparing the deck with the current "No Bowls friendly mid-range control version", a few changes have been made:
Out ==> In ==> Reason
At the time I'm writing this, this deck is freshly assembled and never tested out. It eventually will, when normal people returns from holidays sometime soon: expect some updates, and in the meanwhile, we can discuss all this.
PS: I'm not posting the cards that didn't make the cut, since the post is detailed enough as it is, but if anybody cares about them, I could do that.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
Chain Reaction is way weaker than Inferno or other board sweepers, and (as I said) Blasphemous Act is capable to kill Gisela on the spot, that's why I don't play them.
Having said that, Repercussion is an Enchantment that does nothing on its own and needs to combo with something else. Plus, if they block my Greater Gargadon with a Birds of Paradise, I take 9 damage for killing a Bird and my opponent will mock me for a full day. Seriously: no, thanks