I cut Eldrazi Monument and Akroma's Memorial a while ago. So far it has proven a good choice. I also moved some things around in my decks. Took my one Mana Crypt out of Azami and put it in here since Ghave needs all the speed he can get. I also cut Blasting Station for Forcefield...because it's Forcefield (and signed beta) and also because the station was proving annoying for everyone, including me. Lol
I also cut something (can't remember) for Falkenrath Noble as another win and generally good guy to have around when stuff is dying by the planet-load.
I am trying to beef up the deck as much as possible. So feedback is very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Can anyone give suggestions if I have the correct build to utilize Bitter Ordeal Correctly?
I took out some things due to them making me too much of a target, not really fitting with the deck, or too slow.
-Doubling Season This card goes in/out of the deck constantly
-Gaea's Cradle An amazing card, but my deck isn't nearly aggro enough to make use of this. Plus I need mana early game.
-Blade of the Bloodchief I really like this card with something like Triskelion or Ghave, but tested out to sort of meh.
-Triskelion This might go back in, but without Doubling Season and Blade of Bloodchief I don't see the point.
Added some cards that powered up the deck imo.
+ Imp's Mischief One of the best additions to the deck.
+ Natural Order An amazing card that works great for getting a lot of the combos online.
+ Survival of the Fittest This has also had a history of going in the deck and out of the deck. I think this will stick this time due to me have a solid recursion package with Reveilark and friends + Bitter Ordeal as well as giving me better creatures to feed Deathrender to. .
I was curious what you tutor for with Tooth and Nail? As I mentioned earlier my Ghave deck gets me there with tons of combos, or just big time beats.
I will disclose my own pick in the theme of "the most interesting man in the world" by saying that while I don't always Tooth and Nail, when I do, I chose J.O.Ranger and Woodfall Primus.
If I have a sac outlet out its game over. If I don't, all it means is that I have to pay (1) for the non-creature permanents I want to destroy (thanks Ghave).
It is this combo that has earned my Ghave the altered name of "Ghave, guru of Beatdowns"
Also, if one can get Vish-Kal out with that combo, its double game over, because you're swinging infinite (w/ lifelink j.f.f.) the next turn.
Tiger
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T&N is the reason I put Sadistic Hypnotist in the list. Too many times I was casting it, and already had infinite counters, but no sac outlet. So it's pretty much always two from Primus, JOR and Hypnotist, depending on what I need. Sometimes Clique comes in if there's something particularly juicy to reanimate.
I'm curious, since Ghave has now been around for a while, has anyone found anything interesting that was missed in the first initial flurry of building? I know that I haven't really had much time to play or do much testing in a long time so I haven't really had the opportunity to look for any new tech.
1. Anyway you can change the title of this thread to "The Humongous Fungus Among us." Silly, yes.... but it rolls off the tongue i found. And also, you can make people laugh when playing against them, which helps make miplays and makes winning easier.
2. Parallel Lives: Do you feel it would help this deck or do you see it as not needed?
I get how Corpse Dance with a sac outlet could be awesome, but I don't understand how AoZ and Earthcraft play into it...I mean, AoZ every turn could be a little nuts, too...but how does Earthcraft factor into things?
The planeswalkers are too slow, Viper, unless he changed his mind, was building his deck to go infinite. While there are many things that are very strong, they are limited in there range of use, so these where excluded from the build. Also realistically you are really only guarantied one use from them, and even if you consider Doubling Season, the only planeswalker that really has any merit is Elspeth 1.0. Parallel Lives is half of Doubling Season so it is often asked why it isn't included in builds like this, and from my experience, the more inportant part of Doubling Season is the counter half, so while yes Parallel Lives is half of Doubling Season, it is the lesser half. Now if we can get that other half of Doubling Season for G.....
I don't know, I'm just not seeing it. I guess I could play around with it later, but I don't think that it really does much early and later on the game should be over. So as far as I can tell I'd just rather play something else.
I get how Corpse Dance with a sac outlet could be awesome, but I don't understand how AoZ and Earthcraft play into it...I mean, AoZ every turn could be a little nuts, too...but how does Earthcraft factor into things?
If he has a sac outlet, he can AoZ, tap it and all of its tokens to generate mana with Earthcraft, sac it, and Corpse Dance it back, making infinite 0/1 plant tokens (and mana).
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^ Planeswalkers: Good cards, yes. Not exactly fast enough for Viper's combo build, I would guess.
Bingo. This is the combo version. The tokens version likes the 'walkers a lot more. I use Elspeth, Knight-Errant in mine, but only because of the instant-ultimate with Doubling Season, which is a gamebreaker every time.
Lets assume we have 5 lands (6 with Ghave in play if he is a sac engine)
1. Tap one Swamp and 4 other basic lands of your choice.
2. Corpse Dance AoZ into play with buyback.
3. Tap 5 (or 6) of his saplings to trigger Earthcraft to untap 5(6) lands.
4. Sac AoZ to something.
5. Go back to step one and do it again, 10 zillion times.
After you have done this enough times, Corpse dance in something to play a land (Prime Titan/Sakura Tribe Elder/the land druid guy, etc) and make all your saps have attack power.
Now if you happen to have Bitter Ordeal in your hand, just end the game, as you probably killed AoZ enough times to remove everyone else's decks from the game. (or if you used blasting station to sac your AoZs, everybody is dead already)
As Omnicide pointed out, you can also use Nim Deathmantle to do this, with the added advantage that Nim Deathmantle is only 4 mana so you can also use Hornet Queen or Deranged Hermit in the combo and somehow the thought of overrunning my opponents with a zillion squirrels eating their brains, makes me happy. =)
Nim Deathmantle with Sakura-Tribe Elder lets you get another land into play for each interval of 4 mana you can tap for. With Yavimaya Granger lets you get another land into play every turn for 4 mana. With Yavimaya Elder you get 1 unknown card and 2 lands a turn for 7 mana. With Karmic Guide you get a creature back from your graveyard every turn (the echo cost on karmic guide) for 4 mana. With Deranged Hermit you get 8 power of squirrels a turn (the echo cost on deranged hermit). With Dauntless Escort and 4 mana untapped, your stuff never dies. With Necrotic Sliver and 7 mana you destroy as many permanents as you can pay for. With Sadistic Hypnotist you can pay 4 mana to force an opponent to discard two cards and reuse any other creatures etb or ltb ability. With Puppeteer Clique and a free repeatable sacrifice outlet lets you get 3 creatures from your opponents graveyard every turn for 4 mana and Ashnod's Altar as the sacrifice outlet means infinite mana as well. Woodfall Primus has the same interaction except you get to destroy 3 target permanents.
Pretty sure you're going to force a wrath? Nim Deathmantle saves whatever you want, 4 mana at a time.
Hey Viper, I run a list very similar to yours and I was curious if you thought Melira, Sylvok Outcast had a place in here with all the persist creatures?
With her + Sac Outlet + Persist Creature = Infinite life (Kitchen Finks)/Infinite EtB triggers from opponents creatures (Puppeteer Clique)/Infinite destroy non-land permanents (Woodfall Primus).
Extractor Demon could be a possible finisher. Patrol Signaler combos with earthcraft for infinite kithkin.
Then there is the classic Squirrel's Nest with earthcraft for infinite squirrels. Viscera Seer can dig through your deck to find that necessary wincon or a tutor for a wincon.
Took out the following:
Oblation – Didn’t seem too useful in multiplayer
Lotus Cobra – Took this out for Birds of Paradise. Not sure if either is good to be honest.
Deathrender – Unless I had Stoneforge in play the casting cost made it too slow.
Defense of the Heart – This had to survive on the board for a whole turn. This card has won me a decent amount of games due to be sacking the Academy Rector at the end of my opponent’s turn.
Austere Command - Might put this back in. Thoughts?
Homeward Path – Decided it wasn’t worth it.
Put in:
Rune-Scarred Demon – Pretty useful and great Tooth and Nail target in a pinch.
Sadistic Hypnotist –Havent had a chance to get this on the board yet.
Birds of Paradise – Decided that getting more consistent mana versus the mana boost from Lotus Cobra was better.
Doubling Season- Going to give this card one more try. For some odd reason this always seems to be meh for me. I have a feeling its either my playstyle or just my Ghave build. Looking for suggestions on how to better utilize this in my deck.
Grim Tutor – Just another Tutor
Diabolic Intent – Just another Tutor
I am thinking about taking out the following:
Necropotence – What do guy/gals think of this card in a Ghave Build. I think it makes me into too much of a target early on.
For 1 of the following (looking for feedback/suggestions):
Crucible of Worlds
Seedborn Muse
Mana Reflection
Nature’s Lore
Eternal Dragon - Good colorless land search and can be also used with Survival.
Additional Land. 36 is kind of low.
Or another option?
Does anyone know how I can better upgrade the deck to go infinite with Bitter Ordeal?
I tested out a couple of games with Crucible of Worlds. I like it and I don’t. It has the possibility of being a dead card on some occasions (although it is reassuring to have once I get Cabal Coffers/Urborg online. What are everyone’s thoughts on this?
Right now I am leaning towards Eternal Dragon. Like most decks being able to hit your 3rd land drop is crucial. Eternal Dragon can make that more consistent as well as be something to toss to Survival of the Fittest when needed. And I guess on the rare occasions have it be a Beater.
Dark Ascension brought us another little combo piece in Strangleroot Geist.
Creature - Spirit
Haste
Undying (When this creature dies, if it had no +1/+1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it.)
Essentially, with Ghave and either Earthcraft or Ashnod's Altar, it gives us yet another infinite creature/+1/+1 counter/mana combo.
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Thanks especially to viperesque for the thread but also to all the other contributers, you have all been a great help in tunning the deck. The only problem I have found with the combo deck is that the cards are all so good its hard to decide what to take out or really add much of a unique spin of my own.
The deck started more token like with all three Titans but it just wanted to combo.
I also cut something (can't remember) for Falkenrath Noble as another win and generally good guy to have around when stuff is dying by the planet-load.
I am trying to beef up the deck as much as possible. So feedback is very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Can anyone give suggestions if I have the correct build to utilize Bitter Ordeal Correctly?
I took out some things due to them making me too much of a target, not really fitting with the deck, or too slow.
-Doubling Season This card goes in/out of the deck constantly
-Gaea's Cradle An amazing card, but my deck isn't nearly aggro enough to make use of this. Plus I need mana early game.
-Blade of the Bloodchief I really like this card with something like Triskelion or Ghave, but tested out to sort of meh.
-Triskelion This might go back in, but without Doubling Season and Blade of Bloodchief I don't see the point.
Added some cards that powered up the deck imo.
+ Imp's Mischief One of the best additions to the deck.
+ Natural Order An amazing card that works great for getting a lot of the combos online.
+ Survival of the Fittest This has also had a history of going in the deck and out of the deck. I think this will stick this time due to me have a solid recursion package with Reveilark and friends + Bitter Ordeal as well as giving me better creatures to feed Deathrender to. .
Considering:
Homeward Path
Diabolic Intent
The card I suggest for other Ghave decks:
Crop Rotation - Just an amazing card every time. One of the best tool box cards in my deck.
1x Ghave, Guru of Spores
Artifact (10)
1x Deathrender
1x Coalition Relic
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Blasting Station
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Skullclamp
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Nim Deathmantle
Creature (22)
1x Academy Rector
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Carrion Feeder
1x Eternal Witness
1x Grave Titan
1x Juniper Order Ranger
1x Karmic Guide
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Primeval Titan
1x Puppeteer Clique
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Reveillark
1x Saffi Eriksdotter
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sun Titan
1x Wood Elves
1x Woodfall Primus
1x Yavimaya Elder
1x Aura Shards
1x Defense of the Heart
1x Earthcraft
1x Grave Pact
1x Mirari's Wake
1x Necromancy
1x Necropotence
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
Instant (8)
1x Beast Within
1x Chord of Calling
1x Crop Rotation
1x Eladamri's Call
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Imp's Mischief
1x Oblation
1x Vampiric Tutor
Land (37)
1x Bayou
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Command Tower
1x Fetid Heath
1x Godless Shrine
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Marsh Flats
1x Maze of Ith
1x Murmuring Bosk
1x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Petrified Field
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Plains
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Strip Mine
1x Temple Garden
1x Twilight Mire
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Vesuva
1x Vivid Grove
1x Vivid Marsh
1x Vivid Meadow
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Windbrisk Heights
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
2x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Austere Command
1x Bitter Ordeal
1x Damnation
1x Decree of Pain
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Exsanguinate
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Natural Order
1x Regrowth
1x Tooth and Nail
I will disclose my own pick in the theme of "the most interesting man in the world" by saying that while I don't always Tooth and Nail, when I do, I chose J.O.Ranger and Woodfall Primus.
If I have a sac outlet out its game over. If I don't, all it means is that I have to pay (1) for the non-creature permanents I want to destroy (thanks Ghave).
It is this combo that has earned my Ghave the altered name of "Ghave, guru of Beatdowns"
Also, if one can get Vish-Kal out with that combo, its double game over, because you're swinging infinite (w/ lifelink j.f.f.) the next turn.
Tiger
Currently playing: EDH
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Edit: I'm glad that people are using Sadistic Hypnotist now.
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Rune Scarred seems pretty pricey casting cost wise. But typically I am able to set up Cabal Coffers/Urborg by then anyways.
I am thinking about taking out Deathrender for Sadistic Hypnotist.
Any reason why you guys are not running Nim Deathmantle?
Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar + Ghave = a zillion tokens
Corpse Dance is awesome with all the sac outlets, Primeval Titan every turn or ...
Avenger of Zendikar + Earthcraft + Corpse Dance + sac = sillyness
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1. Anyway you can change the title of this thread to "The Humongous Fungus Among us." Silly, yes.... but it rolls off the tongue i found. And also, you can make people laugh when playing against them, which helps make miplays and makes winning easier.
2. Parallel Lives: Do you feel it would help this deck or do you see it as not needed?
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyI get how Corpse Dance with a sac outlet could be awesome, but I don't understand how AoZ and Earthcraft play into it...I mean, AoZ every turn could be a little nuts, too...but how does Earthcraft factor into things?
Also Garruk 2.0 and Elspeth 2.0.
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Maybe he doesn't need the redundancy of PL. More likely to me though, is that it's not another Doubling Season.
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If he has a sac outlet, he can AoZ, tap it and all of its tokens to generate mana with Earthcraft, sac it, and Corpse Dance it back, making infinite 0/1 plant tokens (and mana).
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Bingo. This is the combo version. The tokens version likes the 'walkers a lot more. I use Elspeth, Knight-Errant in mine, but only because of the instant-ultimate with Doubling Season, which is a gamebreaker every time.
Lets assume we have 5 lands (6 with Ghave in play if he is a sac engine)
1. Tap one Swamp and 4 other basic lands of your choice.
2. Corpse Dance AoZ into play with buyback.
3. Tap 5 (or 6) of his saplings to trigger Earthcraft to untap 5(6) lands.
4. Sac AoZ to something.
5. Go back to step one and do it again, 10 zillion times.
After you have done this enough times, Corpse dance in something to play a land (Prime Titan/Sakura Tribe Elder/the land druid guy, etc) and make all your saps have attack power.
Now if you happen to have Bitter Ordeal in your hand, just end the game, as you probably killed AoZ enough times to remove everyone else's decks from the game. (or if you used blasting station to sac your AoZs, everybody is dead already)
As Omnicide pointed out, you can also use Nim Deathmantle to do this, with the added advantage that Nim Deathmantle is only 4 mana so you can also use Hornet Queen or Deranged Hermit in the combo and somehow the thought of overrunning my opponents with a zillion squirrels eating their brains, makes me happy. =)
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Pretty sure you're going to force a wrath? Nim Deathmantle saves whatever you want, 4 mana at a time.
With her + Sac Outlet + Persist Creature = Infinite life (Kitchen Finks)/Infinite EtB triggers from opponents creatures (Puppeteer Clique)/Infinite destroy non-land permanents (Woodfall Primus).
Then of course add in Earthcraft and you get infinite mana or Bitter Ordeal and you win.
Have you tried any of the following cards?
Extractor Demon could be a possible finisher.
Patrol Signaler combos with earthcraft for infinite kithkin.
Then there is the classic Squirrel's Nest with earthcraft for infinite squirrels.
Viscera Seer can dig through your deck to find that necessary wincon or a tutor for a wincon.
Karmic Guide, Reveillark, Saffi Eriksdotter combos would fit nicely in here.
I think Nim Deathmantle is pretty essential to any ghave deck.
As for what to cut.......I'd have to get back to you on that, but I don't think we really need Eldrazi Monument for starters.
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Took out the following:
Oblation – Didn’t seem too useful in multiplayer
Lotus Cobra – Took this out for Birds of Paradise. Not sure if either is good to be honest.
Deathrender – Unless I had Stoneforge in play the casting cost made it too slow.
Defense of the Heart – This had to survive on the board for a whole turn. This card has won me a decent amount of games due to be sacking the Academy Rector at the end of my opponent’s turn.
Austere Command - Might put this back in. Thoughts?
Homeward Path – Decided it wasn’t worth it.
Put in:
Rune-Scarred Demon – Pretty useful and great Tooth and Nail target in a pinch.
Sadistic Hypnotist –Havent had a chance to get this on the board yet.
Birds of Paradise – Decided that getting more consistent mana versus the mana boost from Lotus Cobra was better.
Doubling Season- Going to give this card one more try. For some odd reason this always seems to be meh for me. I have a feeling its either my playstyle or just my Ghave build. Looking for suggestions on how to better utilize this in my deck.
Grim Tutor – Just another Tutor
Diabolic Intent – Just another Tutor
I am thinking about taking out the following:
Necropotence – What do guy/gals think of this card in a Ghave Build. I think it makes me into too much of a target early on.
For 1 of the following (looking for feedback/suggestions):
Crucible of Worlds
Seedborn Muse
Mana Reflection
Nature’s Lore
Eternal Dragon - Good colorless land search and can be also used with Survival.
Additional Land. 36 is kind of low.
Or another option?
Does anyone know how I can better upgrade the deck to go infinite with Bitter Ordeal?
1x Ghave, Guru of Spores
Artifact (9)
1x Coalition Relic
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Blasting Station
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Skullclamp
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Nim Deathmantle
Creature (24)
1x Academy Rector
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Carrion Feeder
1x Eternal Witness
1x Grave Titan
1x Juniper Order Ranger
1x Karmic Guide
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Primeval Titan
1x Puppeteer Clique
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Reveillark
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Sadistic Hypnotist
1x Saffi Eriksdotter
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sun Titan
1x Wood Elves
1x Woodfall Primus
1x Yavimaya Elder
1x Aura Shards
1x Doubling Season
1x Earthcraft
1x Grave Pact
1x Mirari's Wake
1x Necromancy
1x Necropotence
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
Instant (7)
1x Beast Within
1x Chord of Calling
1x Crop Rotation
1x Eladamri's Call
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Imp's Mischief
1x Vampiric Tutor
Land (36)
1x Bayou
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Command Tower
1x Fetid Heath
1x Godless Shrine
1x Marsh Flats
1x Maze of Ith
1x Murmuring Bosk
1x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Petrified Field
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Strip Mine
1x Temple Garden
1x Twilight Mire
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Vesuva
1x Vivid Grove
1x Vivid Marsh
1x Vivid Meadow
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Windbrisk Heights
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
2x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Bitter Ordeal
1x Damnation
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Decree of Pain
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Exsanguinate
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Grim Tutor
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Natural Order
1x Regrowth
1x Tooth and Nail
I tested out a couple of games with Crucible of Worlds. I like it and I don’t. It has the possibility of being a dead card on some occasions (although it is reassuring to have once I get Cabal Coffers/Urborg online. What are everyone’s thoughts on this?
Right now I am leaning towards Eternal Dragon. Like most decks being able to hit your 3rd land drop is crucial. Eternal Dragon can make that more consistent as well as be something to toss to Survival of the Fittest when needed. And I guess on the rare occasions have it be a Beater.
Creature - Spirit
Haste
Undying (When this creature dies, if it had no +1/+1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it.)
Essentially, with Ghave and either Earthcraft or Ashnod's Altar, it gives us yet another infinite creature/+1/+1 counter/mana combo.
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The deck started more token like with all three Titans but it just wanted to combo.
The Deck:
Commander:
Ghave, Guru of Spores
Feeding the Machine:
Game Ending Combos:
Infinite Mana:
Twice as Nice!:
Big Guns:
Persist is Awesome:
Finding the Pieces:
Protection:
Fuel for the fire:
Lots of Dudes:
Needs More Mana:
Coming Back:
Blowing it all up:
Lands:
Forest x 5
Swamp x 4
Plains x 4
The most obvious place for me to improve imo is the mana base... Its kind of budget right now. Gaea's Cradle being the most important.
Things I would like to find a place in the deck for but haven't yet:
So what you you guys take out?