I would say no to Citanul Hierophants (though I would still like you opinion on it, viper) and yes to Eldrazi Monument. It's just amazing protection and a piece of cake to keep it sated.
Krosan Grip is probably the best disruption card in these colours.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
I would say no to Citanul Hierophants (though I would still like you opinion on it, viper) and yes to Eldrazi Monument. It's just amazing protection and a piece of cake to keep it sated.
Krosan Grip is probably the best disruption card in these colours.
that's what I was thinking about the monument, but I think that this deck is trying to move towards winning on the turn you go off instead of having to pass the turn, so i thought that its potential value might be decreasing(feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)
I already run k-grip, maybe I'm just being paranoid, its not like I don't already run 6 different pieces of direct removal.
Edit: 7 I forgot one
When we're not winning, we're trying to get there. I think that the Monument fulfills one of two things I want to be doing while finding a wincon:
1. Protect my dudes
2. CA
I understand that you haven't yet updated the original list, viper, but Seedborn Muse. How good is it in here? I'd sooner remove that than Monument.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
When we're not winning, we're trying to get there. I think that the Monument fulfills one of two things I want to be doing while finding a wincon:
1. Protect my dudes
2. CA
I understand that you haven't yet updated the original list, viper, but Seedborn Muse. How good is it in here? I'd sooner remove that than Monument.
I'm still not convinced of it, I guess the next time I have an opening I'll through it in there and see what happens. I guess i just have a case of Screw great expectations, I have unrealistic expectations for my cards.
Hierophants and Muse are both there for gas when I fail to combo. And they are both really good in that situation. Again, I'll have to see how the changes go, and how frequently I actually fail. If I find myself just comboing off basically all the time, they might have to go. But I will say that if I get to T&N mana without having won, Muse and Primus are my go-to targets.
Hierophants and Muse are both there for gas when I fail to combo. And they are both really good in that situation. Again, I'll have to see how the changes go, and how frequently I actually fail. If I find myself just comboing off basically all the time, they might have to go. But I will say that if I get to T&N mana without having won, Muse and Primus are my go-to targets.
See post 57 for some suggestions of how to win before that can happen.
I think that after the deck changes that their importance will decrease imo. And after that, I think that their spots would be better use to increase reliability further, but either way you will have to see when you change the deck.
I still want to know how the monument has been.
Edit: I just had another thought looking at primetime's page on the .info, from the games where everything goes to plan cards like it aren't really in the list of spells I want to cast. I know he is good and all, but I'd rather play something that furthers the combo. So I was wondering do you think that it would be a viable option to cut out the cards that are more for contingency if you get disrupted or are on higher costed cards that are more generic utility, since the combos themselves are so redundant themselves, and go hard core combo? Or am I just crazy at this late hour of night, and this idea wont work since we don't have access to blue to ensure that the game goes our way.
Call me crazy but after playing a few games last night I am almost ready to scrap Grave Pact and Attrition in favor of something that does not scream "Look at me!!! I am playing Shenanigans!!!" For one, they slowed me down, and I think I only got 1 removal each from them. One thing I did notice as Viper has, you need buttloads of ramp to make this smooth. I was one land shy of a combo for several turns, then I got my Mirari's Wake, combo'd out, got Wrath of God'd, and then they took my Mirari's Wake *Sad Panda Face*
Call me crazy but after playing a few games last night I am almost ready to scrap Grave Pact and Attrition in favor of something that does not scream "Look at me!!! I am playing Shenanigans!!!" For one, they slowed me down, and I think I only got 1 removal each from them. One thing I did notice as Viper has, you need buttloads of ramp to make this smooth. I was one land shy of a combo for several turns, then I got my Mirari's Wake, combo'd out, got Wrath of God'd, and then they took my Mirari's Wake *Sad Panda Face*
Do you run any way to win on the spot? If you don't that would also help with that problem. I only play grave pact when I need to either make people play around it or when I need to make some creatures disappear, otherwise I just leave it in my hand until I need it. Because of this, I have been almost able to completely lock down the board with a pact.
I am probably guilty of playing Grave Pact wrong, as I just threw it out when I got enough B to cast it since I was having mana issues.
I just wait to play it until I need it since as soon as most people see it they enter kill destroy mode. Though I wouldn't run attrition, because of its activation cost.
Also you might want to look at Nature's lore, Three visits, and Spoils of Victory if you run nonbasic forests. But otherwise I would have thought that you would have had access to more than enough mana with that setup, unless something funny was going on like LD.
This thread has been quite helpful in polishing up my build. I'll post my list later when I get home.
My original build was more "goodstuff" than combo, but I made the transition. The deck is very much focused on grabbing those combos now. I need a Sterling Grove and Idyllic Tutor and I'll be happy. Oh and maybe figure out a way to squeeze in Bitter Ordeal as another same-turn win.
Shuma which same-turn win-cons do you already run? I think that Bitter Ordeal might be good as not just a win con but also as protection or a proactive way to kick the legs out from under a good number of decks. However, I don't run it and I don't think that anybody else is, so if it does end up in your deck, let us know how well it works in practice.
That is true. It's a versatile card for sure. It's fitting for this deck (multi-purpose cards and redundancy). I'm almost certain I'll be pleased with it. I'm playing tonight so I'll see how it works out.
As far as other same-turn wins I only have Trike and Akroma's Memorial. I absolutely love Blasting Station--that'll be another one I get. Those 4 plus my "turn after" wins and various 'Lark combos should be plenty. I love the redundancy and backup plans in this deck. It's pretty st00pid.
This deck sounds stupid silly and stupid fun to play :DXD. But on that note, I have a few questions...
Is there more of a budget option for Vindicate, and maybe some of the other uber expensive cards? The most I can currently justify spending on a card is about $15, which is good for Demonic Tutor and Elspeth 1.0. I can suck it up and slowly pick up things like Earthcraft, since they're only about $10.
...Fudge, I forgot my other question. ^ That'll do for now though.
Is there more of a budget option for Vindicate, and maybe some of the other uber expensive cards? The most I can currently justify spending on a card is about $15, which is good for Demonic Tutor and Elspeth 1.0. I can suck it up and slowly pick up things like Earthcraft, since they're only about $10.
Simple, Mortify, Putrefy. I personally like them more even, instant-speed makes a huge difference. All things considered, this is fairly expensive deck to build, though.
By the way, Bitter Ordeal is indeed a very useful wincon.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Okay I got a question, I noticed all of you guys are running Seedborn Muse and my question is, if I do a combo on someone else's turn, can I attack on my turn? thus saying "before the end of your end phase I do this..." then its my turn and i have 10 billion screaming shrubberies? or do I have to do it by the attack phase a turn before my turn? I am not sure how the timing works. or can I even combo on someone else's turn?
yes, that is one way of doing it, because you can attack with everything. Seedborn muse just has a lot of applications in a deck like this, which is why it's in.
Okay, now I see what I was doing wrong Wednesday, I was getting the combo's out, but doing them at the wrong time, and my ramp was hosed which did not help, I am sure I will have a better night tonight with it.
I'm having a hard time understanding why its much better. Sure, it costs less to play but Ranger gives the same amount of counters for combo-ing and still functions with anthem effects out. Were you referring to just the mana cost issue? (the difference is only 1, and the captain is actually more color intensive...)
I'm having a hard time understanding why its much better. Sure, it costs less to play but Ranger gives the same amount of counters for combo-ing and still functions with anthem effects out. Were you referring to just the mana cost issue? (the difference is only 1, and the captain is actually more color intensive...)
edit: JOR also sets off your persisters...
You basically hit the main differences, the only other is that when you don't have a win know card, you can make the ranger large/large and swing in if he has been out a turn where as with sigil captain, you just have a bunch of 2/2 tokens. Really though, if you have your mana base set up right, you shouldn't have a problem hitting the captain's cost on turn 4 which helps you combo faster.
Eladamri's Call is strictly better than Altar of Bone imo, but if you need more tutors go for it I say. I've been pondering Viscera Seer myself... I especially like him when your opponent decides to wipe the board.
Krosan Grip is probably the best disruption card in these colours.
that's what I was thinking about the monument, but I think that this deck is trying to move towards winning on the turn you go off instead of having to pass the turn, so i thought that its potential value might be decreasing(feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)
I already run k-grip, maybe I'm just being paranoid, its not like I don't already run 6 different pieces of direct removal.
Edit: 7 I forgot one
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
1. Protect my dudes
2. CA
I understand that you haven't yet updated the original list, viper, but Seedborn Muse. How good is it in here? I'd sooner remove that than Monument.
I'm still not convinced of it, I guess the next time I have an opening I'll through it in there and see what happens. I guess i just have a case of Screw great expectations, I have unrealistic expectations for my cards.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
See post 57 for some suggestions of how to win before that can happen.
I think that after the deck changes that their importance will decrease imo. And after that, I think that their spots would be better use to increase reliability further, but either way you will have to see when you change the deck.
I still want to know how the monument has been.
Edit: I just had another thought looking at primetime's page on the .info, from the games where everything goes to plan cards like it aren't really in the list of spells I want to cast. I know he is good and all, but I'd rather play something that furthers the combo. So I was wondering do you think that it would be a viable option to cut out the cards that are more for contingency if you get disrupted or are on higher costed cards that are more generic utility, since the combos themselves are so redundant themselves, and go hard core combo? Or am I just crazy at this late hour of night, and this idea wont work since we don't have access to blue to ensure that the game goes our way.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
So today I am ordering a Farseek and Skyshroud Claim
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Do you run any way to win on the spot? If you don't that would also help with that problem. I only play grave pact when I need to either make people play around it or when I need to make some creatures disappear, otherwise I just leave it in my hand until I need it. Because of this, I have been almost able to completely lock down the board with a pact.
What ramp do you already run?
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
Last night I was running
Darksteel Ingot
Cultivate
Sakura Tribe Elder
Birds of Paradise
Mirari's Wake
Yavimaya Elder
Wood Elves
Sol Ring
with 38 lands.
Today I added
Primeval Titan
Oracle of Mul Daya
Kodama's Reach
Mana Reflection (I thought it was in there, though it would not have mattered, by the time I died I only had 5 lands out)
I am thinking of Ordering
Skyshroud Claim
Farseek
I am very much seeing what you were talking about, when you said this deck hurts your brain, I hit that a few times last night.
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I just wait to play it until I need it since as soon as most people see it they enter kill destroy mode. Though I wouldn't run attrition, because of its activation cost.
Also you might want to look at Nature's lore, Three visits, and Spoils of Victory if you run nonbasic forests. But otherwise I would have thought that you would have had access to more than enough mana with that setup, unless something funny was going on like LD.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
My original build was more "goodstuff" than combo, but I made the transition. The deck is very much focused on grabbing those combos now. I need a Sterling Grove and Idyllic Tutor and I'll be happy. Oh and maybe figure out a way to squeeze in Bitter Ordeal as another same-turn win.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
As far as other same-turn wins I only have Trike and Akroma's Memorial. I absolutely love Blasting Station--that'll be another one I get. Those 4 plus my "turn after" wins and various 'Lark combos should be plenty. I love the redundancy and backup plans in this deck. It's pretty st00pid.
Is there more of a budget option for Vindicate, and maybe some of the other uber expensive cards? The most I can currently justify spending on a card is about $15, which is good for Demonic Tutor and Elspeth 1.0. I can suck it up and slowly pick up things like Earthcraft, since they're only about $10.
...Fudge, I forgot my other question. ^ That'll do for now though.
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
Simple, Mortify, Putrefy. I personally like them more even, instant-speed makes a huge difference. All things considered, this is fairly expensive deck to build, though.
By the way, Bitter Ordeal is indeed a very useful wincon.
Ya know, I just traded for one the other day :D.
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
Is that how you guys are using Seedborn?
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Scry! (rollover popups)
Modern: W Soul Sisters (WIP), GW Melira Pod (WIP)
Current EDH:
G Ezuri's Renegade Elves (thread)
BGW Ghave's Legion (thread)
WUB Sharuum, Artifact Savant
Thanks for the information!
.
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I'm having a hard time understanding why its much better. Sure, it costs less to play but Ranger gives the same amount of counters for combo-ing and still functions with anthem effects out. Were you referring to just the mana cost issue? (the difference is only 1, and the captain is actually more color intensive...)
edit: JOR also sets off your persisters...
Scry! (rollover popups)
Modern: W Soul Sisters (WIP), GW Melira Pod (WIP)
Current EDH:
G Ezuri's Renegade Elves (thread)
BGW Ghave's Legion (thread)
WUB Sharuum, Artifact Savant
You basically hit the main differences, the only other is that when you don't have a win know card, you can make the ranger large/large and swing in if he has been out a turn where as with sigil captain, you just have a bunch of 2/2 tokens. Really though, if you have your mana base set up right, you shouldn't have a problem hitting the captain's cost on turn 4 which helps you combo faster.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
Pauper EDH:
UBPsychatogBU
UInvisible StalkerU
Not playing anything else. Money is tight.
Scry! (rollover popups)
Modern: W Soul Sisters (WIP), GW Melira Pod (WIP)
Current EDH:
G Ezuri's Renegade Elves (thread)
BGW Ghave's Legion (thread)
WUB Sharuum, Artifact Savant