I've thought about Necro before and I'm not sure I want to try it out or not. BBB isn't hard to get, and when it lands I'll *probably* draw out a combo or two, but my big concern is it seems like it would backfire more than it helps (because of the EoT delay, paying lots of life and NOT hitting combo). It LOOKS like an auto-include, but I'm not convinced. The deck functions so well already anyway it may just be extra baggage. Ghave is a superstar.
Maybe I'll try it with my friends and report back after seeing what it does or doesn't do.
I think Necrologia is a better way to do it, and it doesn't stick around nullifying your draw phase after you fail to get the cards you needed when you bled yourself dry with Necropotence.
I have thought of using Necrologia, but my problem now is, deck runs fine, there is no room for anything else, and I am not willing to pinch any of my 38 land to add something. Its kinda funny, any time I say "x" card is not performing one day, the next time I play, it saves my ass, so its hard to pick something to remove at this point.
I know what you mean, with this deck you either have to suck it up and change something or you get stuck in this mode, I know I do. Though while there is a fairly consistent core, the rest seems to be personal choice and as long as you don't make bad choices it seems to work fine almost regardless of what you put in there.
I am interested in seeing Shunma's list, when you gonna post it?
My list is just the basic combo pieces all of us use, add Corpse Dance and Nim Deathmantle, half the tutors, and twice the removal, as you guys are running. In my meta I need the extra removal, all kinds of weird stuff happens in my meta.
I am interested in seeing Shunma's list, when you gonna post it?
My list is just the basic combo pieces all of us use, add Corpse Dance and Nim Deathmantle, half the tutors, and twice the removal, as you guys are running. In my meta I need the extra removal, all kinds of weird stuff happens in my meta.
.
I know he posted it in the pimp thread if you want to see it there.
I am interested in seeing Shunma's list, when you gonna post it?
I posted it in this thread a few pages back I think. But here is the post in the "pimp thread" so you can see it firsthand. I actually just got my first foil Marsh Flats in the mail today.
But that's pretty much how the deck will be staying for a while. I'm happy with it as is: it's a beast. Until ISD gets more previews at any rate. I'm especially curious to see the FIVE ABILITY Liliana and what she might bring to the deck. o.0
Whenever another creature with power 2 or less enters the battlefield under your control, you may pay 1. If you do, draw a card.
2/2
I think this could be a really useful drawing engine for us.
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EDH
:symu:Sun Quan, Lord of Wu:symu:
:symbg::symwb::symwg:Ghave, Guru of Spores:symwg::symwb::symbg:
:symur::symwr::symwu:Zedruu The Greathearted:symwu::symwr::symur: Casual
:symbw:Token Punisher:symbw:
:symb:Enter Karn's Dungeon:symb:
:symbw:Cleric Cult:symbw:
I'm honestly not sure he is that beneficial since some of the combos cause the tokens to be more than 2/2's but its something to look at at least. Well the draw would be awesome but he really only works when you are already going off, unless you just cycle a token or two off of Ghave to net a few cards at a time, but I guess there are worse things in the world. So I guess the only question is what is it worth taking out for it?
I'm not sure exactly how good he is, but let's look at the breakdown for the other powerful draw engines that work in basically the same way: Skullclamp, Fecundity and Foster (if I missed one, please laugh let me know):
Skullclamp
Pros
Cheap to cast
Much cheaper to use when digging (2 mana and a counter gives you two cards, as opposed to 2 or 3 mana for one card)
Can equip to other creatures for random benefit when they are killed off
Cons
Unsustainable - each use requires the loss of a counter/token
Does not function at instant speed
Does not work passively off comboing off (i.e. you have to feed creatures to it specifically, unless you have managed to make your tokens more than 1/1)
Fecundity
Pros
Easily tutorable
Works off any creatures that happen to die, not just ones you intend to
Infinite use with just Ghave, giving you 2: Draw a card
Completely free when you start comboing
Cons
Symmetrical
Requires creatures to actually die, which not all the combos in the deck achieve
Foster
Pros
Easily tutorable
Works off any creatures that happen to die, not just ones you intend to
Infinite use with just Ghave
Digs you quickly to creature combo pieces
Extra value if you're running graveyard recursion
Cons
Expensive, not only to play, but to use
Inflexible
Requires creatures to actually die, which not all the combos in the deck achieve
Mentor of the Meek
Pros
Easily tutorable
Does not require creatures to die
Infinite use with just Ghave
Cons
Expensive to use
Does not give random value from (some) nontoken creatures
Squishy
Fair?
Side note: I'm giving Sadistic Hypnotist a try. I've been really feeling the need for a creature-based sac outlet of late.
Side note: I'm giving Sadistic Hypnotist a try. I've been really feeling the need for a creature-based sac outlet of late.
Yeah, it looks pretty good, I am thinking on it as well.
Mentor of the Meek seems okay, but most of the cards in my deck are much better than JUST okay. I would play it ahead of Foster, but I don't play Foster either.
Side note: I'm giving Sadistic Hypnotist a try. I've been really feeling the need for a creature-based sac outlet of late.
I'm glad he is getting tried out by others now. I find him especially useful if you run Reveillark combos since you can res him, or if you can go off, and not win right now, you can still put everyone in topdeck mode to cover you.
Yeah, it looks pretty good, I am thinking on it as well.
Mentor of the Meek seems okay, but most of the cards in my deck are much better than JUST okay. I would play it ahead of Foster, but I don't play Foster either.
.
Yeah, I think I'd rather just hold on to a Fecundity until I can abuse it, instead of this guy, but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong.
Or really whatever win con you hit first. On that thought, what do you think about including some free mana rocks like mox diamond or what have you?
Its kinda funny but anytime I have tried to combo out too early with Ghave, I get shutdown, but if I play a little control and wipe the board at least once before, I get the combo off without any resistance and win. So with the tempo of my deck, I would say no to 0 rocks. Besides the only ones I have are in my Edric and Sharuum decks.
I just don't think there is a decided advantage to playing Ghave a turn sooner, if any, its a disadvantage as someone with removal in hand will go after the biggest threat, if you don't show a threat early, someone else will eat that removal.
We haven't really discussed it, but I have the feeling that it would be too narrow. Skullclamp is a tool to help you dig for combos and Nim Deathmantle is a single combo piece. I'd rather have something that can directly tutor for combo pieces and multiple ones at that. So I see it as too narrow because of that.
I run Stoneforge Mystic but it is on the cut list, if it could pull Ashnod's Altar I would probably keep it, but of the 3 equipments I run, none is a "must tutor now", so It will probably be replaced by Sadistic Hypnotist when I get one.
Sadistic Hypnotist: U-579 has convinced me to try him out. Excellent precursor to win.
I haven't been playing with Fecundity, but after this bit of new discussion, I think I might try it as well. There have been a few situations where I "half-combo" and get a thousand guys with no insta-win, and someone lucks out and has a board wipe. Fecundity (and the aforementioned Hypnotist) would have been awesome in those cases since it is a "may" effect (draw 40 so I can do unlimited things next turn and you can't possibly stop them all). And in more general situations it seems pretty good too. Ghave is one greedy bastard. o.0
Y'know, these two new white guys (Lunarch and Mentor) lead me to believe that WotC loves Ghave more than the other new commanders.
I also have a Ghave deck, but don't have the budget to buy an Earthcraft. Have you guys considered Suppression Field ? I haven't tried it yet, but it seems like a good alternative to Earthcraft and Ashnod's Altar. (by alternative I mean an extra mana source for comboing)
Additionally, if I am not mistaken, it can also make equipment cheaper to equip (and other cards I currently run like Gigantomancer, Selesnya Guildmage , ...)
By the way, I love this thread! let's keep it up! =)
Suppression Field makes activated abilities cost MORE to play. Maybe you're thinking of Training Grounds, but it's not in our colours, and it wouldn't really help. Are you going the combo route, or a more straightforward aggro approach?
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EDH
:symu:Sun Quan, Lord of Wu:symu:
:symbg::symwb::symwg:Ghave, Guru of Spores:symwg::symwb::symbg:
:symur::symwr::symwu:Zedruu The Greathearted:symwu::symwr::symur: Casual
:symbw:Token Punisher:symbw:
:symb:Enter Karn's Dungeon:symb:
:symbw:Cleric Cult:symbw:
In that case, why not go mostly tokens with just a combo or two that "happen to be there?" You don't spend too much on expensive cards and still have lots of fun and awesome wins. Tokens are a blast in hordes.
Does anybody know where I can find a more swarm/aggro list? Almost every list I've seen on here wants to combo out which is fine, it's just not what I'm interested in doing.
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Sig courtesy of the wonderful mchief111 over at Rising Studios
Does anybody know where I can find a more swarm/aggro list? Almost every list I've seen on here wants to combo out which is fine, it's just not what I'm interested in doing.
That is also sort of how I want to go but I havent seen one yet.
Also as a side not has anyone ran or considered running Cauldron of Souls? I think it is really cool with Ghave as you can persist him back with 4 +1/+1 counters and continue swarming from there. He also works quite well with several of the Ghave asisstants like Juniper Order Ranger who will eat up their -/- counter on their own.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Not the best place to start but if you use my Rhys list, cut out Earthcraft and Reveillark (probably Karmic Guide too), the enchantment subtheme and added in black tutors, token makers (Bitterblossom/Worm Harvest/?) and Ghave support cards you'd probably end up with what you're looking for. It's basically a swarm deck that randomly goes infinite because of some of the aforementioned cards.
Maybe I'll try it with my friends and report back after seeing what it does or doesn't do.
I have thought of using Necrologia, but my problem now is, deck runs fine, there is no room for anything else, and I am not willing to pinch any of my 38 land to add something. Its kinda funny, any time I say "x" card is not performing one day, the next time I play, it saves my ass, so its hard to pick something to remove at this point.
.
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
My list is just the basic combo pieces all of us use, add Corpse Dance and Nim Deathmantle, half the tutors, and twice the removal, as you guys are running. In my meta I need the extra removal, all kinds of weird stuff happens in my meta.
.
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I know he posted it in the pimp thread if you want to see it there.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
I posted it in this thread a few pages back I think. But here is the post in the "pimp thread" so you can see it firsthand. I actually just got my first foil Marsh Flats in the mail today.
But that's pretty much how the deck will be staying for a while. I'm happy with it as is: it's a beast. Until ISD gets more previews at any rate. I'm especially curious to see the FIVE ABILITY Liliana and what she might bring to the deck. o.0
Mentor of the Meek 2W
Creature - Human Soldier (R)
Whenever another creature with power 2 or less enters the battlefield under your control, you may pay 1. If you do, draw a card.
2/2
I think this could be a really useful drawing engine for us.
EDH
:symu:Sun Quan, Lord of Wu:symu:
:symbg::symwb::symwg:Ghave, Guru of Spores:symwg::symwb::symbg:
:symur::symwr::symwu:Zedruu The Greathearted:symwu::symwr::symur:
Casual
:symbw:Token Punisher:symbw:
:symb:Enter Karn's Dungeon:symb:
:symbw:Cleric Cult:symbw:
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
laughlet me know):Skullclamp
Pros
Fecundity
Pros
Foster
Pros
Mentor of the Meek
Pros
Fair?
Side note: I'm giving Sadistic Hypnotist a try. I've been really feeling the need for a creature-based sac outlet of late.
Yeah, it looks pretty good, I am thinking on it as well.
Mentor of the Meek seems okay, but most of the cards in my deck are much better than JUST okay. I would play it ahead of Foster, but I don't play Foster either.
.
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I'm glad he is getting tried out by others now. I find him especially useful if you run Reveillark combos since you can res him, or if you can go off, and not win right now, you can still put everyone in topdeck mode to cover you.
Yeah, I think I'd rather just hold on to a Fecundity until I can abuse it, instead of this guy, but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
.
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Or really whatever win con you hit first. On that thought, what do you think about including some free mana rocks like mox diamond or what have you?
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
Its kinda funny but anytime I have tried to combo out too early with Ghave, I get shutdown, but if I play a little control and wipe the board at least once before, I get the combo off without any resistance and win. So with the tempo of my deck, I would say no to 0 rocks. Besides the only ones I have are in my Edric and Sharuum decks.
I just don't think there is a decided advantage to playing Ghave a turn sooner, if any, its a disadvantage as someone with removal in hand will go after the biggest threat, if you don't show a threat early, someone else will eat that removal.
.
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Is that too narrow to warrant inclusion?
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
.
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Stoneforge Mystic: Far too narrow, unfortunately.
Sadistic Hypnotist: U-579 has convinced me to try him out. Excellent precursor to win.
I haven't been playing with Fecundity, but after this bit of new discussion, I think I might try it as well. There have been a few situations where I "half-combo" and get a thousand guys with no insta-win, and someone lucks out and has a board wipe. Fecundity (and the aforementioned Hypnotist) would have been awesome in those cases since it is a "may" effect (draw 40 so I can do unlimited things next turn and you can't possibly stop them all). And in more general situations it seems pretty good too. Ghave is one greedy bastard. o.0
Y'know, these two new white guys (Lunarch and Mentor) lead me to believe that WotC loves Ghave more than the other new commanders.
Suppression Field makes activated abilities cost MORE to play. Maybe you're thinking of Training Grounds, but it's not in our colours, and it wouldn't really help. Are you going the combo route, or a more straightforward aggro approach?
EDH
:symu:Sun Quan, Lord of Wu:symu:
:symbg::symwb::symwg:Ghave, Guru of Spores:symwg::symwb::symbg:
:symur::symwr::symwu:Zedruu The Greathearted:symwu::symwr::symur:
Casual
:symbw:Token Punisher:symbw:
:symb:Enter Karn's Dungeon:symb:
:symbw:Cleric Cult:symbw:
That is also sort of how I want to go but I havent seen one yet.
Also as a side not has anyone ran or considered running Cauldron of Souls? I think it is really cool with Ghave as you can persist him back with 4 +1/+1 counters and continue swarming from there. He also works quite well with several of the Ghave asisstants like Juniper Order Ranger who will eat up their -/- counter on their own.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies