Thus far I have a pretty insane win ratio on mtgo with my current build. Its horrible, but I feel like taking out Bitter Ordeal due to all of the clicking involved haha. Its easier in paper for me to say, “Infinite Sacrifice Loop of Death!”… but online is like… clickyX400.
This deck must suck to play on there where you actually have to do everything with all the combos.
Also I know that it is a pet, but does beastmaster accession really do anything for you schtauffen?
How do you guys feel about the match-ups against the newer commanders.
I know there was a lot of hype around Mimeoplasm. From my exp he has always been one of the worst commanders out there.
I think the hardest match-ups tend to be Rikku. Which isnt that bad, but just ranking them amongst the other new commanders.
I think I agree with that assessment. I played around with Mimeoplasm, but decided it wasn't very good. The ooze gets some explosive wins and interesting combinations, but it's horribly inconsistent (especially since it exiles--can't re-use guys). My Ghave build laughs at him because my creatures won't do him any good, and I can easily waste anything he tries with his own stuff. Damia, on the other hand, depending on what the opponent does with her, can be far more difficult to deal with (card advantage machine).
Riku is pretty awesome. He's actually a lot like Ghave in some respects (combo oriented). So it ends up playing almost like a mirror--sit, build up, and watch for combo setups. I have only played against Riku once with Ghave, but Ghave proved to be "better." Since we have WB instead of UR, we get more tutors. That's what it comes down to I think (Enlightened, Idyllic, Demonic, Diabolic, Vampiric, Worldly, Grove, Rector, Eladamri's Call--so much power there). It's close though. Riku is definitely a threat with access to U. Countermagic makes Ghave sad.
The other "newbies" are all pretty easy I think. Kaalia is "good," but ends up a lot like Mimeoplasm: big but inconsistent wins. The rest are all pushovers from the matches I have played thus far. The biggest challenge is a well-thought-out Riku or Damia.
Also I know that it is a pet, but does beastmaster accession really do anything for you schtauffen?
I can address this, even though I'm not schtauffen. I usually use it as a surprise win. Chord out Avenger at end of turn, then cast Beastmaster Accension and win. Or I'll play it with enough creatures to maybe trigger it just to bait out an enchantment removal, then I cast a better one. The bait trick has worked a lot for me, usually I play it, it goes away, then I'll cast Mirari's Wake or Doubling Season.
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Current EDH Decks :symb::symg::symw: Karador, Ghost Chieftain :symw::symg::symb:
:symg::symw::symu: Jenara, Asura of War :symu::symw::symg:
:symb::symr::symg: Kartthus, Tyrant of Jund :symg::symr::symb:
:symu::symb: Oona, Queen of the Fae :symb::symu:
:symr::symw: Brion Stoutarm :symw::symr:
It was discussed earlier, but I wanted to bring it back up. Lightning Greaves is pretty much dead weight in the deck. The only time I was really have it on the field was when a Titan hit the board. I ended up taking it out to fit in some more combos.
How has "Regrowth" worked for everyone? I am going to test it out, but it seems like we are better off drawing more cards than getting a card out of the graveyard.
I have also tried out Survival of the Fittest. I only play about 24 creatures so I ended up cutting it. It was also rather rare for me to have creatures in my hand that were useless. My opinion of this really strong card when from high to low over the past couple weeks.
Regrowth and to a lesser extent Recollect are essential IMO. Not both--one or the other. Having that plus Witness allows the deck to get back killed combo pieces.
I might be a little biased on that though. I run Regrowth in any deck with green ever. ;-)
How do you guys feel about the match-ups against the newer commanders.
I know there was a lot of hype around Mimeoplasm. From my exp he has always been one of the worst commanders out there.
I think the hardest match-ups tend to be Rikku. Which isnt that bad, but just ranking them amongst the other new commanders.
The only new commanders that I have played that gave me any trouble where rikku and damia. Rikku just becase he is another combo deck that if built well can go off as fast as we can, but the times I have played it the player tried to use creature based combos and I just droped grave pact and it was gg from there. Damia seems to mostly be a good stuff deck and just uses the power of the colors to win, so the strength of that deck depends on the build and the player.
I can address this, even though I'm not schtauffen. I usually use it as a surprise win. Chord out Avenger at end of turn, then cast Beastmaster Accension and win. Or I'll play it with enough creatures to maybe trigger it just to bait out an enchantment removal, then I cast a better one. The bait trick has worked a lot for me, usually I play it, it goes away, then I'll cast Mirari's Wake or Doubling Season.
I just don't think that it really does much when you use it like that, it seems like you would be better off using something actually ment to do that, i mean it's not like this isn't the colors for disruption or anything. And in a deck where attacking should be like plan d and is a sign that something has gone wrong I would think you could use this slot to do almost anything else.
It was discussed earlier, but I wanted to bring it back up. Lightning Greaves is pretty much dead weight in the deck. The only time I was really have it on the field was when a Titan hit the board. I ended up taking it out to fit in some more combos.
I am seeing this as more and more true all the time, from when I originally brought this up to now, I have yet to see a use for it in my own deck. Now just to figure out what I want to replace it with.
ItI have also tried out Survival of the Fittest. I only play about 24 creatures so I ended up cutting it. It was also rather rare for me to have creatures in my hand that were useless. My opinion of this really strong card when from high to low over the past couple weeks.
I had a similar experience early on, I would cast it then either never use it or wish that it was almost anything else. I think that this and greaves are to 'good' cards that try and trap you into running them because they are good else where. Greaves just because it doesn't add anything to the deck and survival because we don't have spare creatures since all of them serve a purpose.
Regrowth and to a lesser extent Recollect are essential IMO. Not both--one or the other. Having that plus Witness allows the deck to get back killed combo pieces.
I might be a little biased on that though. I run Regrowth in any deck with green ever. ;-)
I dont know about regrowth, I never really considered it much. Though I still wish there was a reanimate type effect for enchanments that put a single one back into play at a low price.
@u-579: I see that attacking for the win for you might be your last resort, but with my playgroup, doing infinite combos will cost you in later games (like being picked on even if you aren't in any position to do anything). It's very much frowned upon, so for me attacking for the win and what aids that makes it good. So, yes it's only really good if you're planning to win with tokens swinging, if you only ever want to combo, it's a dead card. But it does deliver if you want to attack. It usually adds +50 damage when I first drop it.
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Current EDH Decks :symb::symg::symw: Karador, Ghost Chieftain :symw::symg::symb:
:symg::symw::symu: Jenara, Asura of War :symu::symw::symg:
:symb::symr::symg: Kartthus, Tyrant of Jund :symg::symr::symb:
:symu::symb: Oona, Queen of the Fae :symb::symu:
:symr::symw: Brion Stoutarm :symw::symr:
@u-579: I see that attacking for the win for you might be your last resort, but with my playgroup, doing infinite combos will cost you in later games (like being picked on even if you aren't in any position to do anything). It's very much frowned upon, so for me attacking for the win and what aids that makes it good. So, yes it's only really good if you're planning to win with tokens swinging, if you only ever want to combo, it's a dead card. But it does deliver if you want to attack. It usually adds +50 damage when I first drop it.
My playgroup is basically the same way. They're okay with infinite combos most of the time, but once they know that it's a continuous thing, they really gang up on you. I, also included Beastmaster Ascension since it's been highly effective for attacking for the win or as a bait card for me as well.
Are you guys running Squirrel Nest? It's a fast combo with Earthcraft, and is a great token generator for Blasting Station. It's all still instant speed as well. Also works great with Aura Shards, Doubling Season, Skullclamp, etc. Just my .02 cents.
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Decks:
Ghave, the Guru of Spores
Mayael the Anima
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Are you guys running Squirrel Nest? It's a fast combo with Earthcraft, and is a great token generator for Blasting Station. It's all still instant speed as well. Also works great with Aura Shards, Doubling Season, Skullclamp, etc. Just my .02 cents.
This is one of those cards that I have looked briefly at and passed over several times, and now that I think about it for a little longer I'm not sure I was giving it justice. Nowif the opportunity arises, I think that it will find a way into my deck for some actual testing.
I had squirrels nest in, I took it out for the simple reason that it did not interact with my general enough. Though I am thinking about adding Kjeldoran Outpost, because I have noticed several games where a cheap creature to sac would be good, and lands dodge All is Dust/Nevinyrral's Disk/Oblivion Stone.
I'm thinking about it now, and I'm not sure since it does only combo with earthcraft. Is the outpost really taht usefully, I'd think that it would be too much of a tempo loss.
I'm thinking about it now, and I'm not sure since it does only combo with earthcraft. Is the outpost really taht usefully, I'd think that it would be too much of a tempo loss.
Thats true, it does only interact with earthcraft. But you need your earthcraft out to do most of your infinite combos anyway (unless it's ashnod's altar). I don't think it's a terrible addition if there's enough room.
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Decks:
Ghave, the Guru of Spores
Mayael the Anima
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
It was a typical random moment in Commander on mtgo, but an opponent decided to cast Decree of Pain. I already had Earthcraft on the board so my response was to sacrifice (via Altar) a Kitchen Finks already equipped with Deathreader to put Academy Rector into play. Then sac him to get Squirrel’s Nest into play and started producing enough tokens to get him to draw all of his deck and lose.
But do I think Squirrel’s Nest is good in a Ghave control/combo build? Even with multiple ways to tutor for the combo its usually not the best win condition you can tutor for. So imo its sort of so so.
It is VERY so-so as it interacts exclusively with Earthcraft, whereas Earthcraft interacts with pretty much everything. The Nest didn't make the cut for that reason. It's a fun, lulzy combo but that's about it.
Yeah, I put in and have played a few games with it and I never used the combo. I think that I'm going to take it out and replace it with a tutor but I don't know what I should add that can actually find.
I'm currently using Basalt Monolith as a ramp card, but it also combos with Mana Reflection for infinite mana. It hasn't been too bad for me so far. Any thoughts?
I've been running a Ghave combo deck (and following this thread) for a while now, and another win-con occurred to me. How about Helix Pinnacle? Sure, you have to wait to your upkeep to win, but it has shroud, so it's pretty tough to deal with.
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EDH
:symu:Sun Quan, Lord of Wu:symu:
:symbg::symwb::symwg:Ghave, Guru of Spores:symwg::symwb::symbg:
:symur::symwr::symwu:Zedruu The Greathearted:symwu::symwr::symur: Casual
:symbw:Token Punisher:symbw:
:symb:Enter Karn's Dungeon:symb:
:symbw:Cleric Cult:symbw:
for me the card has always been clunky... if you don't get an infinite combo out it is a worthless card to have, whereas lots of other cards have uses beyond just combo-ing.
I stumbled across some nice recursion for Ashnod's Altar (or any artifact you happen to run) today, in the form of Buried Ruin.
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EDH
:symu:Sun Quan, Lord of Wu:symu:
:symbg::symwb::symwg:Ghave, Guru of Spores:symwg::symwb::symbg:
:symur::symwr::symwu:Zedruu The Greathearted:symwu::symwr::symur: Casual
:symbw:Token Punisher:symbw:
:symb:Enter Karn's Dungeon:symb:
:symbw:Cleric Cult:symbw:
I stumbled across some nice recursion for Ashnod's Altar (or any artifact you happen to run) today, in the form of Buried Ruin.
Yup. I picked one up myself. Haven't used it yet, but I have no doubt it will be useful. My deck has 15 artifacts, all of which are high-priority targets (Crucible of Worlds, Eldrazi Monument, combo pieces) or artifacts like Expedition Map that are generally worth re-using.
Also, I don't know how I ever didn't run Blasting Station in here. Even when I'm not combo-ing, creatures are coming into play all the time. Especially in a 4-player game. The damage adds up quick. Just having Ghave and 8 mana means: "At EoT, take 5." I'm actually tempted to try it out in random decks at this point. Haha
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This deck must suck to play on there where you actually have to do everything with all the combos.
Also I know that it is a pet, but does beastmaster accession really do anything for you schtauffen?
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
I know there was a lot of hype around Mimeoplasm. From my exp he has always been one of the worst commanders out there.
I think the hardest match-ups tend to be Rikku. Which isnt that bad, but just ranking them amongst the other new commanders.
I think I agree with that assessment. I played around with Mimeoplasm, but decided it wasn't very good. The ooze gets some explosive wins and interesting combinations, but it's horribly inconsistent (especially since it exiles--can't re-use guys). My Ghave build laughs at him because my creatures won't do him any good, and I can easily waste anything he tries with his own stuff. Damia, on the other hand, depending on what the opponent does with her, can be far more difficult to deal with (card advantage machine).
Riku is pretty awesome. He's actually a lot like Ghave in some respects (combo oriented). So it ends up playing almost like a mirror--sit, build up, and watch for combo setups. I have only played against Riku once with Ghave, but Ghave proved to be "better." Since we have WB instead of UR, we get more tutors. That's what it comes down to I think (Enlightened, Idyllic, Demonic, Diabolic, Vampiric, Worldly, Grove, Rector, Eladamri's Call--so much power there). It's close though. Riku is definitely a threat with access to U. Countermagic makes Ghave sad.
The other "newbies" are all pretty easy I think. Kaalia is "good," but ends up a lot like Mimeoplasm: big but inconsistent wins. The rest are all pushovers from the matches I have played thus far. The biggest challenge is a well-thought-out Riku or Damia.
I can address this, even though I'm not schtauffen. I usually use it as a surprise win. Chord out Avenger at end of turn, then cast Beastmaster Accension and win. Or I'll play it with enough creatures to maybe trigger it just to bait out an enchantment removal, then I cast a better one. The bait trick has worked a lot for me, usually I play it, it goes away, then I'll cast Mirari's Wake or Doubling Season.
Current EDH Decks
:symb::symg::symw: Karador, Ghost Chieftain :symw::symg::symb:
:symg::symw::symu: Jenara, Asura of War :symu::symw::symg:
:symb::symr::symg: Kartthus, Tyrant of Jund :symg::symr::symb:
:symu::symb: Oona, Queen of the Fae :symb::symu:
:symr::symw: Brion Stoutarm :symw::symr:
How has "Regrowth" worked for everyone? I am going to test it out, but it seems like we are better off drawing more cards than getting a card out of the graveyard.
I have also tried out Survival of the Fittest. I only play about 24 creatures so I ended up cutting it. It was also rather rare for me to have creatures in my hand that were useless. My opinion of this really strong card when from high to low over the past couple weeks.
I might be a little biased on that though. I run Regrowth in any deck with green ever. ;-)
The only new commanders that I have played that gave me any trouble where rikku and damia. Rikku just becase he is another combo deck that if built well can go off as fast as we can, but the times I have played it the player tried to use creature based combos and I just droped grave pact and it was gg from there. Damia seems to mostly be a good stuff deck and just uses the power of the colors to win, so the strength of that deck depends on the build and the player.
I just don't think that it really does much when you use it like that, it seems like you would be better off using something actually ment to do that, i mean it's not like this isn't the colors for disruption or anything. And in a deck where attacking should be like plan d and is a sign that something has gone wrong I would think you could use this slot to do almost anything else.
I am seeing this as more and more true all the time, from when I originally brought this up to now, I have yet to see a use for it in my own deck. Now just to figure out what I want to replace it with.
I had a similar experience early on, I would cast it then either never use it or wish that it was almost anything else. I think that this and greaves are to 'good' cards that try and trap you into running them because they are good else where. Greaves just because it doesn't add anything to the deck and survival because we don't have spare creatures since all of them serve a purpose.
I dont know about regrowth, I never really considered it much. Though I still wish there was a reanimate type effect for enchanments that put a single one back into play at a low price.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
Current EDH Decks
:symb::symg::symw: Karador, Ghost Chieftain :symw::symg::symb:
:symg::symw::symu: Jenara, Asura of War :symu::symw::symg:
:symb::symr::symg: Kartthus, Tyrant of Jund :symg::symr::symb:
:symu::symb: Oona, Queen of the Fae :symb::symu:
:symr::symw: Brion Stoutarm :symw::symr:
My playgroup is basically the same way. They're okay with infinite combos most of the time, but once they know that it's a continuous thing, they really gang up on you. I, also included Beastmaster Ascension since it's been highly effective for attacking for the win or as a bait card for me as well.
Ghave, the Guru of Spores
Mayael the Anima
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
This is one of those cards that I have looked briefly at and passed over several times, and now that I think about it for a little longer I'm not sure I was giving it justice. Nowif the opportunity arises, I think that it will find a way into my deck for some actual testing.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
Thats true, it does only interact with earthcraft. But you need your earthcraft out to do most of your infinite combos anyway (unless it's ashnod's altar). I don't think it's a terrible addition if there's enough room.
Ghave, the Guru of Spores
Mayael the Anima
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
But do I think Squirrel’s Nest is good in a Ghave control/combo build? Even with multiple ways to tutor for the combo its usually not the best win condition you can tutor for. So imo its sort of so so.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
I won one game with it, but otherwise it just clogs your hand :/
Scry! (rollover popups)
Modern: W Soul Sisters (WIP), GW Melira Pod (WIP)
Current EDH:
G Ezuri's Renegade Elves (thread)
BGW Ghave's Legion (thread)
WUB Sharuum, Artifact Savant
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
I ended up taking out the Bitter Ordeal due to the amount of time it takes to actually get it to combo on mtgo.
EDH
:symu:Sun Quan, Lord of Wu:symu:
:symbg::symwb::symwg:Ghave, Guru of Spores:symwg::symwb::symbg:
:symur::symwr::symwu:Zedruu The Greathearted:symwu::symwr::symur:
Casual
:symbw:Token Punisher:symbw:
:symb:Enter Karn's Dungeon:symb:
:symbw:Cleric Cult:symbw:
Scry! (rollover popups)
Modern: W Soul Sisters (WIP), GW Melira Pod (WIP)
Current EDH:
G Ezuri's Renegade Elves (thread)
BGW Ghave's Legion (thread)
WUB Sharuum, Artifact Savant
EDH
:symu:Sun Quan, Lord of Wu:symu:
:symbg::symwb::symwg:Ghave, Guru of Spores:symwg::symwb::symbg:
:symur::symwr::symwu:Zedruu The Greathearted:symwu::symwr::symur:
Casual
:symbw:Token Punisher:symbw:
:symb:Enter Karn's Dungeon:symb:
:symbw:Cleric Cult:symbw:
Yup. I picked one up myself. Haven't used it yet, but I have no doubt it will be useful. My deck has 15 artifacts, all of which are high-priority targets (Crucible of Worlds, Eldrazi Monument, combo pieces) or artifacts like Expedition Map that are generally worth re-using.
Also, I don't know how I ever didn't run Blasting Station in here. Even when I'm not combo-ing, creatures are coming into play all the time. Especially in a 4-player game. The damage adds up quick. Just having Ghave and 8 mana means: "At EoT, take 5." I'm actually tempted to try it out in random decks at this point. Haha