More land faster often wins you the game lol and any deck that i throw my library into my yard, that has green and recurs creatures (yes i put azusa in with crucible).
also along with living death you might add Puppeteer Clique you could really abuse him!
Its a good deck and yeah from here on out its personal tweaks that make it yours.
More land faster often wins you the game lol and any deck that i throw my library into my yard, that has green and recurs creatures (yes i put azusa in with crucible).
also along with living death you might add Puppeteer Clique you could really abuse him!
Its a good deck and yeah from here on out its personal tweaks that make it yours.
I so wish Puppeteer Clique allowed me to take from my yard, lol. As for Living Death, I do have to be very careful, the Karador player would just LOVE for me to cast Living Death with his yard full of fatties, lol.
I'll put Azusa + Crucible in the "Fit List."
Thanks again for all your suggestions and feedback.
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Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
^ also another good reason to run Asuza. Prime time to bog and a bounce land then bog again. You would just love to Puppeteer Clique his yard then you just exile his rather than sacing them to reuse them with your Clique.
Also it looks like you have a decent line up for birthing pod idk if you ever thought about that.
No prob i like to get feedback on my decks to and people rarely do. We learn from each other
Lol missed it but clique exiles end of your turn so he doesn't get them back. Or do you mean if you sac them? On that same note that's why I run rift sweeper in my karador.
Lol missed it but clique exiles end of your turn so he doesn't get them back. Or do you mean if you sac them? On that same note that's why I run rift sweeper in my karador.
I was just referring to Living Death, not Clique sorry.
Puppeteer Clique would certainly be fun with Karador in the playgroup.
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Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
Now that I've had some coffee, I took time to re-look at the list. Holy crap, Hatred is a HELL of a one-shot effect in this list. Yet, I still stick with what I said. I think Sword of Feast and Famine needs to be in here somewhere. Hrm. Would Jarad's ability work with Infect? If so, glistening oil gets a LOT more sick...
EDIT: Nevermind, I'm obviously illiterate. Hrm. Going to try and wake up some more and offer CONSTRUCTIVE advice.
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Thanks, Heroes of The Planes! You guys are great!
Actual Truth:
"You heard it here folks:
Anyone who disagrees with "Jack from NC" is an idiot."-The Dead Weatherman
Now that I've had some coffee, I took time to re-look at the list. Holy crap, Hatred is a HELL of a one-shot effect in this list. Yet, I still stick with what I said. I think Sword of Feast and Famine needs to be in here somewhere. Hrm. Would Jarad's ability work with Infect? If so, glistening oil gets a LOT more sick...
EDIT: Nevermind, I'm obviously illiterate. Hrm. Going to try and wake up some more and offer CONSTRUCTIVE advice.
No worries buddy, I always accept "half-asleep Jack advice."
Instead of SoFaF, what do you think of the previously proposed idea: Azusa + Crucible of Worlds?
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Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
I was just thinking that since you win through Jarad's ability, does that mean you often get the life lead?
If you often get the life lead in multiplayer games, then Last Laugh is a very good board wipe. It depends on what decks are being run, but I've seen last laughs hit everyone for from anywhere between 9 and 39 damage, naturally this also tends to be a dollar version of damnation on top of that. It is even pretty good if they don't run a ton of creatures since your fatties are likely to survive more damage than anyone else's.
I was just thinking that since you win through Jarad's ability, does that mean you often get the life lead?
If you often get the life lead in multiplayer games, then Last Laugh is a very good board wipe. It depends on what decks are being run, but I've seen last laughs hit everyone for from anywhere between 9 and 39 damage, naturally this also tends to be a dollar version of damnation on top of that. It is even pretty good if they don't run a ton of creatures since your fatties are likely to survive more damage than anyone else's.
Actually, we don't (in my experience) pull ahead in the "life race" until we're about to win. Last Laugh is a sweet find though, it can definitely do a lot of damage. However, my main concern is that it can stop our Hatred wincon.
Though, the lower everyone's life total, the easier is to kill everyone else with Jarad. Hmmm....
What are other people's thoughts on this?
EDIT:
Not sure how "angry face" icon got added, lol. It's now removed.
Last Laugh is a decent card unless you find yourself losing chunks of life, either through getting damaged or things like Necropotence (why don't you play this?). It's nothing amazing however this color combination can support a lifeloss/lifegain subtheme, though just not as well as W/B, which would make Last Gasp pretty good. First things that come to mind are Deathcloud (recommend combining with Mikaeus the Unhallowed) and a pestilence creature (Crypt Rats, Thrashing Wumpus or Pestilence Demon) to hurt everyone and Grim Feast and Dross Harvester to help recover. Wound Reflection has good synergy with this strategy as well. I don't think this will make your deck better but it's an option if you want to go that route.
Going through the list I would look to cut 2 of Putrefy, Krosan Grip and Beast Within (save 1 as a tutor target). These can be adequately replaced with creatures which have a lot more synergy with your deck. You can't GSZ, reanimate or sac Krosan Grip but you can with Acidic Slime. Mana Crypt replaces a land, finding room is easy if you own one. I prefer High Market over Grim Backwoods, the effect is nice but it's 5 mana to sac a dude. Have to go now, I'll try to think on this a bit more.
PS. Please organize your decklist either by alphabetizing it, listing by converted mana cost or both.
Last Laugh is a decent card unless you find yourself losing chunks of life, either through getting damaged or things like Necropotence (why don't you play this?). It's nothing amazing however this color combination can support a lifeloss/lifegain subtheme, though just not as well as W/B, which would make Last Gasp pretty good. First things that come to mind are Deathcloud (recommend combining with Mikaeus the Unhallowed) and a pestilence creature (Crypt Rats, Thrashing Wumpus or Pestilence Demon) to hurt everyone and Grim Feast and Dross Harvester to help recover. Wound Reflection has good synergy with this strategy as well. I don't think this will make your deck better but it's an option if you want to go that route.
I don't think I want to build around it that hard. Thank you for saving me that time and explaining it out.
Going through the list I would look to cut 2 of Putrefy, Krosan Grip and Beast Within (save 1 as a tutor target). These can be adequately replaced with creatures which have a lot more synergy with your deck. You can't GSZ, reanimate or sac Krosan Grip but you can with Acidic Slime. Mana Crypt replaces a land, finding room is easy if you own one. I prefer High Market over Grim Backwoods, the effect is nice but it's 5 mana to sac a dude. Have to go now, I'll try to think on this a bit more.
See! See People? THIS is the kind of advice I'm looking for. I run a deck based on creatures in the yard, and like moron I'm not running utility creatures like I preach in all my other primers. Thank you Donald!
Acidic Slime needs to go in. I'm not sure which of the three should be cut, probably Krosan Grip, as it's the least versatile.
Mana Crypt was replaced for a land yesterday, I just forgot to actually change the decklist, lol.
You're right about Grim Backwoods too, High Market will be inserted back into the list in place of Grim Backwoods.
Thank you for ALL of your great points and suggestions!
That could potentially work. Risky though (as most hatred all ins are.)
This is true, it's definitely all-in. It's funny though, because all you need is Jarad on board, a creature with power > the difference between your life total and the lifetotal of you opponent with the highest (sometimes this is 0 or a negative number), and Hatred wins you the game on someone else's turn.
Although that may not *seem* stellar, the latest Hatred win came in the middle of a counter-war between Sharuum and Oona. They went back and forth trying to resolve / counter. I stepped in at the last moment and killed everyone but myself. Just that look on their faces made it worth the risk, lol.
If you don't get the life lead very often like you said I'd hesitate a lot to put in Last laugh.
This is because as a field wipe there are times where it is a dead draw, and if it might kill you frequently then it becomes a dead draw even more often. It is one of my favorites though, since a lot of people will hesitate to attack and a sack outlet means you can nuke the field whenever you need to.
BTW Instant speed wincons should not be underestimated! Being able to win because someone else tried to win, or Genesis wave or Time Strech or Tooth and nail.
If you don't get the life lead very often like you said I'd hesitate a lot to put in Last laugh.
This is because as a field wipe there are times where it is a dead draw, and if it might kill you frequently then it becomes a dead draw even more often. It is one of my favorites though, since a lot of people will hesitate to attack and a sack outlet means you can nuke the field whenever you need to.
BTW Instant speed wincons should not be underestimated! Being able to win because someone else tried to win, or Genesis wave or Time Strech or Tooth and nail.
Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing in regard to Last Laugh.
Hatred winning at instant speed is more-often relevant than I thought it would be. Plus, killing with "bombs on the stack" is just gravy.
@Donald: would you replace Phyrexian Arena with Necropotence? The reason it's not in the list is because of the "if you would discard" line. That worries me to some extent, enough to not include it in the original 99 I guess.
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Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
As I've previously stated twice, Splinterfright is interesting, but there were better cards available (Sewer Nemesis does essentially the same thing, but better, and it's bigger than Splinterfright).
I've also previously discussed Ghoultree (we're looking for creatures that actually do something other than just being fat, there are plenty of fat creatures we don't run). Wurm Harvest (similar to Spider Spawning) or other spells that make a bunch of little creatures was discussed a couple pages back.
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions, they're much appreciated!
This post is pretty bad. It's like you are suggesting your deck is the only way to build a Jarad deck.
Instead of saying "we are looking for ..." say something like "the example deck is looking for ..., but that certainly would be an appropriate card in a deck more centered around ..."
This post is pretty bad. It's like you are suggesting your deck is the only way to build a Jarad deck.
Instead of saying "we are looking for ..." say something like "the example deck is looking for ..., but that certainly would be an appropriate card in a deck more centered around ..."
That's what I meant to say, but I see how it didn't come across that way. What I should have said is "we are looking for big creatures with relevant etb/yard abilities capitalize on."
This deck isn't the only way to build Jarad, but it is the version I enjoy playing so far and therefore the version I am looking to improve. The deck and 'Primer to Be' are in it's infancy, so maybe I am babying it a little.
The more suggestions, criticisms, etc the better the deck develops and the more it evolves.
Honestly, onlainari, you keeping me honest to the deck and myself is much appreciated. I may not like it, but it only serves to improve my thought process and decision making, and therefore benefiting the deck.
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Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
I know you have a lot of stuff to fit in as it is, but may I suggest trying to fit in oracle of mul daya over azusa? The difference here is that you aren't building your deck to have a super amount of lands in it, which azusa is good for. Instead, oracle of mul daya can ramp the same way and dig through your top deck so you can draw cards you need.
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
I know you have a lot of stuff to fit in as it is, but may I suggest trying to fit in oracle of mul daya over azusa? The difference here is that you aren't building your deck to have a super amount of lands in it, which azusa is good for. Instead, oracle of mul daya can ramp the same way and dig through your top deck so you can draw cards you need.
This is a great point Drizzle! I was never 100% sold on Azusa, but I liked the idea of getting lands out of the deck. Oracle does this and is great with Sensei's Divining Top.
Is Crucible of Worlds still worth running here? The version I'm running has six fetchlands currently, which itself may make Crucible worth a spot.
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Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
This is a great point Drizzle! I was never 100% sold on Azusa, but I liked the idea of getting lands out of the deck. Oracle does this and is great with Sensei's Divining Top.
Is Crucible of Worlds still worth running here? The version I'm running has six fetchlands currently, which itself may make Crucible worth a spot.
Depends on your meta. Do they love strip mine + crucibles, or armageddon? If not there is nothing that makes you HAVE to play this. A regrowth or eternal witness can bring back a dead cabal or urborg if needed.
Having those fetchlands could make crucible really worth it though.
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EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
Depends on your meta. Do they love strip mine + crucibles, or armageddon? If not there is nothing that makes you HAVE to play this. A regrowth or eternal witness can bring back a dead cabal or urborg if needed.
Having those fetchlands could make crucible really worth it though.
No, there really isn't much land removal in my area, the fetchlands were my only reasoning at this time. Its probably not necessary, just a bonus if I can fit it.
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Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
You might want to replace one of your cheap recur creatures with Gravecrawler. Jarad is a zombie to help it out.
I actually had Gravecrawler in the original 99. When Hatred was recommended to me, I needed a spot, and Gravecralwer was subsequently replaced. In my experience, he was the worst-performing of the three (Bloodghast, Nether Traitor, and Gravecralwer). Nether Traitor and Bloodghast have haste, Nether Traitor has haste, and I found both easier to return a lot of the time (Bloodghast comes back for free, and Nether Traitor capitalizes on our sacrificing).
I'm not against Gravecrawler in the list, to the contrary, I like all three recursion creatures, but I'm not sure what I would cut for him.
What else would you recommend to cut?
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Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
also along with living death you might add Puppeteer Clique you could really abuse him!
Its a good deck and yeah from here on out its personal tweaks that make it yours.
I so wish Puppeteer Clique allowed me to take from my yard, lol. As for Living Death, I do have to be very careful, the Karador player would just LOVE for me to cast Living Death with his yard full of fatties, lol.
I'll put Azusa + Crucible in the "Fit List."
Thanks again for all your suggestions and feedback.
Also it looks like you have a decent line up for birthing pod idk if you ever thought about that.
No prob i like to get feedback on my decks to and people rarely do. We learn from each other
Meh, they just go back to his yard, lol.
Birthing Pod has been in the deck since day 1.
Very true, we learn from each other by questioning our own choices and evolving from there.
I was just referring to Living Death, not Clique sorry.
Puppeteer Clique would certainly be fun with Karador in the playgroup.
EDIT: Nevermind, I'm obviously illiterate. Hrm. Going to try and wake up some more and offer CONSTRUCTIVE advice.
Thanks, Heroes of The Planes! You guys are great!
Actual Truth:
No worries buddy, I always accept "half-asleep Jack advice."
Instead of SoFaF, what do you think of the previously proposed idea: Azusa + Crucible of Worlds?
If you often get the life lead in multiplayer games, then Last Laugh is a very good board wipe. It depends on what decks are being run, but I've seen last laughs hit everyone for from anywhere between 9 and 39 damage, naturally this also tends to be a dollar version of damnation on top of that. It is even pretty good if they don't run a ton of creatures since your fatties are likely to survive more damage than anyone else's.
Actually, we don't (in my experience) pull ahead in the "life race" until we're about to win. Last Laugh is a sweet find though, it can definitely do a lot of damage. However, my main concern is that it can stop our Hatred wincon.
Though, the lower everyone's life total, the easier is to kill everyone else with Jarad. Hmmm....
What are other people's thoughts on this?
EDIT:
Not sure how "angry face" icon got added, lol. It's now removed.
I don't understand what you mean here. Jarad's ability doesn't require you to be at a higher life since he only hits opponents with his ability.
Experimental Kraj
I'm equally confused, but his suggestion does intrigue me.
Maybe he was referring to the Hatred + a creature + Jarad wincon?
That could potentially work. Risky though (as most hatred all ins are.)
Going through the list I would look to cut 2 of Putrefy, Krosan Grip and Beast Within (save 1 as a tutor target). These can be adequately replaced with creatures which have a lot more synergy with your deck. You can't GSZ, reanimate or sac Krosan Grip but you can with Acidic Slime. Mana Crypt replaces a land, finding room is easy if you own one. I prefer High Market over Grim Backwoods, the effect is nice but it's 5 mana to sac a dude. Have to go now, I'll try to think on this a bit more.
PS. Please organize your decklist either by alphabetizing it, listing by converted mana cost or both.
I don't think I want to build around it that hard. Thank you for saving me that time and explaining it out.
See! See People? THIS is the kind of advice I'm looking for. I run a deck based on creatures in the yard, and like moron I'm not running utility creatures like I preach in all my other primers. Thank you Donald!
Acidic Slime needs to go in. I'm not sure which of the three should be cut, probably Krosan Grip, as it's the least versatile.
Mana Crypt was replaced for a land yesterday, I just forgot to actually change the decklist, lol.
You're right about Grim Backwoods too, High Market will be inserted back into the list in place of Grim Backwoods.
Thank you for ALL of your great points and suggestions!
Done, don't know why it wasn't originally. Sorry for that.
EDIT:
This is true, it's definitely all-in. It's funny though, because all you need is Jarad on board, a creature with power > the difference between your life total and the lifetotal of you opponent with the highest (sometimes this is 0 or a negative number), and Hatred wins you the game on someone else's turn.
Although that may not *seem* stellar, the latest Hatred win came in the middle of a counter-war between Sharuum and Oona. They went back and forth trying to resolve / counter. I stepped in at the last moment and killed everyone but myself. Just that look on their faces made it worth the risk, lol.
This is because as a field wipe there are times where it is a dead draw, and if it might kill you frequently then it becomes a dead draw even more often. It is one of my favorites though, since a lot of people will hesitate to attack and a sack outlet means you can nuke the field whenever you need to.
BTW Instant speed wincons should not be underestimated! Being able to win because someone else tried to win, or Genesis wave or Time Strech or Tooth and nail.
Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing in regard to Last Laugh.
Hatred winning at instant speed is more-often relevant than I thought it would be. Plus, killing with "bombs on the stack" is just gravy.
@Donald: would you replace Phyrexian Arena with Necropotence? The reason it's not in the list is because of the "if you would discard" line. That worries me to some extent, enough to not include it in the original 99 I guess.
This post is pretty bad. It's like you are suggesting your deck is the only way to build a Jarad deck.
Instead of saying "we are looking for ..." say something like "the example deck is looking for ..., but that certainly would be an appropriate card in a deck more centered around ..."
That's what I meant to say, but I see how it didn't come across that way. What I should have said is "we are looking for big creatures with relevant etb/yard abilities capitalize on."
This deck isn't the only way to build Jarad, but it is the version I enjoy playing so far and therefore the version I am looking to improve. The deck and 'Primer to Be' are in it's infancy, so maybe I am babying it a little.
The more suggestions, criticisms, etc the better the deck develops and the more it evolves.
Honestly, onlainari, you keeping me honest to the deck and myself is much appreciated. I may not like it, but it only serves to improve my thought process and decision making, and therefore benefiting the deck.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
This is a great point Drizzle! I was never 100% sold on Azusa, but I liked the idea of getting lands out of the deck. Oracle does this and is great with Sensei's Divining Top.
Is Crucible of Worlds still worth running here? The version I'm running has six fetchlands currently, which itself may make Crucible worth a spot.
Depends on your meta. Do they love strip mine + crucibles, or armageddon? If not there is nothing that makes you HAVE to play this. A regrowth or eternal witness can bring back a dead cabal or urborg if needed.
Having those fetchlands could make crucible really worth it though.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
No, there really isn't much land removal in my area, the fetchlands were my only reasoning at this time. Its probably not necessary, just a bonus if I can fit it.
I actually had Gravecrawler in the original 99. When Hatred was recommended to me, I needed a spot, and Gravecralwer was subsequently replaced. In my experience, he was the worst-performing of the three (Bloodghast, Nether Traitor, and Gravecralwer). Nether Traitor and Bloodghast have haste, Nether Traitor has haste, and I found both easier to return a lot of the time (Bloodghast comes back for free, and Nether Traitor capitalizes on our sacrificing).
I'm not against Gravecrawler in the list, to the contrary, I like all three recursion creatures, but I'm not sure what I would cut for him.
What else would you recommend to cut?