[Competitive] Jarad's Grateful Dead

  • #26
    Quote from trees
    I'm also working a Jared deck and a card I have been liking is Dawn of the Dead, it allows you to get creatures back every turn and throw them before the exile trigger to reuse them. I think that his second ability might be the way to go as it is a lot harder to disrupt, i.e. graveyard hate makes his first ability not always relevant. Because of that I run Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Woodfall Primus, Ghoultree, Sutured Ghoul, Tooth and Nail, and Chord of Calling. Although, i do run a good bit of ramp so some of the latter might not be as good in your list, I just had trouble with trying to get a big Jared. Also, you are running a lot of expendable utility dudes so Diabolic Intent and Attrition might be ok.


    Attrition was a card I definitely considered. I decided on going with Altar of Dementia to start with. I'll try to test Attrition in the next week and let you know how it goes.

    As for as the other package, I'm not as big of fan of DotD because of the exiling, and because I really don't want to insert the ramp package and all the other creatures/spells that I don't see as important to this deck.

    Thanks for the suggestions and feedback!

    Quote from onlainari
    I've created my own deck before reading this primer. It's an all creature deck. I went through gatherer and looked at every single green and black creature to build it. It took me about 6 hours to come up with a finalised decklist, it's an interesting comparison to the non-creature heavy decks in this thread.

    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=439035


    Huh, what made you run an all creature deck? I'm not sure why you wouldn't run some of the best graveyard-related spells in the game (Survival of the Fittest seems like a good example) . Most of the non-creature spells we run are vital to making a deck like this tick. I could imagine a creature-only deck being slow and unable to consistently get the right creatures in the yard.

    I'm intrigued though. How has it been so far to play?

    EDIT: I'm surprised no one has mentioned Harvester of Souls yet. I'm not sure what to make of this guy. In the right situation he's a draw engine in a deck that really needs one. Thoughts about HoS?
    Last edited by RWF_Less: 8/12/2012 4:43:23 PM
  • #27
    Quote from RWF_Less
    Huh, what made you run an all creature deck?

    Restrictive deckbuilding increases the enjoyment for both myself and my opponents. Building the best Jarad deck ever seems a waste of time, you might as well play Oona combo. Saying that, I don't have much of a problem with the decks in this thread so far except that they are boring and samey. Anyone can throw a bunch of staples into a deck, it's finding synergies that are greater than the sum of its parts that makes the game interesting.
    DCI Level 1 Judge.

    Quote from XeroxedFool
    I was surprised and sad to see Titan go, but the format is much better now.
  • #28
    Quote from onlainari
    Restrictive deckbuilding increases the enjoyment for both myself and my opponents. Building the best Jarad deck ever seems a waste of time, you might as well play Oona combo. Saying that, I don't have much of a problem with the decks in this thread so far except that they are boring and samey. Anyone can throw a bunch of staples into a deck, it's finding synergies that are greater than the sum of its parts that makes the game interesting.


    While I respect restrictive deck building and the interesting interactions it can bring, I don't see why you would look down upon those who allow themselves the use of the available card pool. Saying that building the best deck is "a waste of time" is demeaning, and why would I build Oona when that's not the style or General I want to play? I'm very confused and concerned for, what comes across as, your outright dislike of deckbuilders who don't use your method. Again, I respect restrictive deckbuilding and 'forced creativity', but I don't understand why you said what you did.

    EDIT:
    I would very much like to get back to tuning and refining Jarad, and any comments or suggestions to that point are welcomed.
    Last edited by RWF_Less: 8/12/2012 9:17:45 PM
  • #29
    Have you considered Crucible of Worlds at all?
  • #30
    Quote from RWF_Less
    While I respect restrictive deck building and the interesting interactions it can bring, I don't see why you would look down upon those who allow themselves the use of the available card pool. Saying that building the best deck is "a waste of time" is demeaning, and why would I build Oona when that's not the style or General I want to play? I'm very confused and concerned for, what comes across as, your outright dislike of deckbuilders who don't use your method. Again, I respect restrictive deckbuilding and 'forced creativity', but I don't understand why you said what you did.

    I apologise, I didn't mean to say that the restriction has to be similar to what I've done. By all means use the available card pool with the only restriction being your general of choice. However at this point I don't believe a decklist is a suitable addition to a primer. You should probably just list all the obvious staple cards, and then the cool cards that work in this deck but not everywhere. Some of the staple cards completely warp the deck and should probably be used sparingly, such as survival of the fittest. Trying to nail down the best 99 cards doesn't make sense in the context of a primer, as it doesn't exist.

    An example of a card that might suit a Jarad deck is Black Market. Having your decklist in the first post invalidates suggestions like these because it doesn't fit in that deck, but there are many ways to build a Jarad deck and this card will be awesome in some of them.
    Last edited by onlainari: 8/12/2012 9:32:48 PM
    DCI Level 1 Judge.

    Quote from XeroxedFool
    I was surprised and sad to see Titan go, but the format is much better now.
  • #31
    Quote from onlainari
    I apologise, I didn't mean to say that the restriction has to be similar to what I've done. By all means use the available card pool with the only restriction being your general of choice. However at this point I don't believe a decklist is a suitable addition to a primer. You should probably just list all the obvious staple cards, and then the cool cards that work in this deck but not everywhere. Some of the staple cards completely warp the deck and should probably be used sparingly, such as survival of the fittest. Trying to nail down the best 99 cards doesn't make sense in the context of a primer, as it doesn't exist.

    An example of a card that might suit a Jarad deck is Black Market. Having your decklist in the first post invalidates suggestions like these because it doesn't fit in that deck, but there are many ways to build a Jarad deck and this card will be awesome in some of them.


    I can see your point. In my other primers I clearly stated that the decklist was the version I decided on based on my favorite choices, not that there were a clear best 99. I need to do this here as well to make that point clear.

    Black Market is an excellent suggestion, and it's exactly the type of suggestion I'm looking for, thank you.

    EDIT:
    Also the "Card Choices" will be the section where I list essentially every card that could fit into the deck. Hopefully that opens the list up to creativity for others. Smile
    Last edited by RWF_Less: 8/12/2012 10:05:41 PM
  • #32
    so im curious why no grave pact
    Last edited by piche35: 8/12/2012 11:27:44 PM
  • #33
    I agree with grave pact being suited to this deck. I added both Savra and Butcher of Malakir to my all creatures deck, the effect is very powerful.

    PS there's no point hyperlinking cards if you don't spell them correctly.
    DCI Level 1 Judge.

    Quote from XeroxedFool
    I was surprised and sad to see Titan go, but the format is much better now.
  • #34
    I love this idea! When the Duel Decks come out, I was planning on adding the Izzet cards to my Tibor and Lumia deck, but Didn't know what to do with Jarad. And this inspired me. Simply make another deck. Awesome! I'm really looking foward to it. Thanks for inspiring me!


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  • #35
    Quote from piche35
    so im curious why no grave pact


    Grave Pact might actually replace Savra.

    Although, I've considered running neither. There are games where we just don't sac that many creatures until we kill everyone, and in those games Savra and Grave Pact affects are irrelevant. But in the games where we're consistently filling our yard from the field, or even using Bitterblossom + Skullclamp, Savra/Pact are good against creature decks. So it's very hit or miss.

    Savra and Grave Pact perform the same essential task, Savra has the upside of being a creature and benefiting Jarad when she's in the yard, Pact has the benefit of being free and not costing use hordes of life.
  • #36
    I also feel like Grave Pact will add even if your not going off as a way to stop people from killing your creatures to save their own. Grave Pact is suck a political card for EDH it almost makes it to play in any deck involved with sacing and graveyards Grin
  • #37
    Quote from RWF_Less
    Grave Pact might actually replace Savra.

    Although, I've considered running neither. There are games where we just don't sac that many creatures until we kill everyone, and in those games Savra and Grave Pact affects are irrelevant. But in the games where we're consistently filling our yard from the field, or even using Bitterblossom + Skullclamp, Savra/Pact are good against creature decks. So it's very hit or miss.

    Savra and Grave Pact perform the same essential task, Savra has the upside of being a creature and benefiting Jarad when she's in the yard, Pact has the benefit of being free and not costing use hordes of life.


    Glad I could inspire you! Jarad really is a blast to play, and his abilities bring up so many new interactions that each game feels really different (not stale and boring like others). Cheers!

    Quote from piche35
    I also feel like Grave Pact will add even if your not going off as a way to stop people from killing your creatures to save their own. Grave Pact is suck a political card for EDH it almost makes it to play in any deck involved with sacing and graveyards Grin


    Okay, well, that's enough feedback to convince me to insert Grave Pact. Smileup

    I think I may remove Savra in the mean time to test out Grave Pact. Thoughts?
  • #38
    What about running the creakwood leige doomgape combo? At worst it is a free 3 life every turn when assembled and leige by itself makes a 3/3 beater every turn and doom gape is a good way to combat life loss from bitterblossom. and if you have savra out it is life + removal every turn.
  • #39
    Doomgape is 7 mana, waaay too expensive. There are many better 7 mana creatures.
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    Quote from XeroxedFool
    I was surprised and sad to see Titan go, but the format is much better now.
  • #40
    Quote from feastofthedead
    What about running the creakwood leige doomgape combo? At worst it is a free 3 life every turn when assembled and leige by itself makes a 3/3 beater every turn and doom gape is a good way to combat life loss from bitterblossom. and if you have savra out it is life + removal every turn.


    ....

    Quote from onlainari
    Doomgape is 7 mana, waaay too expensive. There are many better 7 mana creatures.


    Yep. It's just too much mana for what you actually get.


    As for Bitterblossom life loss, even the one game that I got it turn two, it never became a big problem. Not to say I wouldn't mind NOT losing the life, lol, but it's nothing that has me worried, yet.
  • #41
    Speaking of 7 mana, Mossbridge Troll is another card far more suited to this deck than I think any other. I'm not saying it's an auto include, but certainly relevant. If you have 20 power (across at least 2 creatures), you activate it twice, sacrifice, and win. Since this deck cares about creatures with high power, the Troll might have the support he needs.
    DCI Level 1 Judge.

    Quote from XeroxedFool
    I was surprised and sad to see Titan go, but the format is much better now.
  • #42
    Quote from onlainari
    Speaking of 7 mana, Mossbridge Troll is another card far more suited to this deck than I think any other. I'm not saying it's an auto include, but certainly relevant. If you have 20 power (across at least 2 creatures), you activate it twice, sacrifice, and win. Since this deck cares about creatures with high power, the Troll might have the support he needs.


    Oh, Mossbridge Troll is a very interesting selection. I was pondering it's implications yesterday, and decided to move along. However, now that you bring it up again, it deserves another look. The great thing too, you can tap the creatures for Mossbridge and then sac those to Jarad or Altar too. This way it's a combined effort and doesn't need to be a one-shot off of Mossbridge Troll.
  • #43
    I think you should reconsider Splinterfright here. It's not an all-star by any means, but it has great value at a small cost. It is susceptible to GY, but so is a lot of your deck. 1) It can grow large from your GY, helping not only your general's ability, but things like Greater Good, which I love, 2) It has mill built in, and even though it's only 2 cards, there's no additional cost to it, so you can play it early game, 3) It has evasion on its own, should you want to beat with it.

    Another creature that I like is Necrotic Ooze, also weak to GY hate, but I feel is worth it. It works with: Fauna Shaman, Hermit Druid, Dimir house guard, golgari grave-troll, in addition to all the other things your opponents may have. As a bonus, you can let your general hit the GY, should he get caught in a boardsweeper, and let Necrotic Ooze take his abilities, somewhat cheating Jarad's general recast cost. If you wish to go the combo route, you can also put in Devoted Druid/Quillspike, but that's a bit shaky.
  • #44
    I heavily considered necrotic ooze myself and I was sad when I cut it. Basically, the effect is ridiculously awesome, but all my other 4 drops were better. Definitely worth considering, especially given your point about letting Jarad hitting the GY.
    DCI Level 1 Judge.

    Quote from XeroxedFool
    I was surprised and sad to see Titan go, but the format is much better now.
  • #45
    Some quick thoughts asuza, crucible, ashnods alter, glissa, the trator, and why no living death? It's crazy in these decks I personally prefer karador but it's the same idea.

    With your creature ramp I don't see why coffers would be bad by its self?

    As far as dropping cards I'd think filth, forays, garruk, Bitterblossom, and hatred.

    Not sure of your budget but natural order over worldly tutor and mana crypt over a land would be good too IMO.

    Just my quick thoughts on seeing it and having not played it I might be wrong.
    Last edited by KTROJAN: 8/13/2012 6:28:10 AM
  • #46
    Quote from shneakyshneaky
    I think you should reconsider Splinterfright here. It's not an all-star by any means, but it has great value at a small cost. It is susceptible to GY, but so is a lot of your deck. 1) It can grow large from your GY, helping not only your general's ability, but things like Greater Good, which I love, 2) It has mill built in, and even though it's only 2 cards, there's no additional cost to it, so you can play it early game, 3) It has evasion on its own, should you want to beat with it.

    Another creature that I like is Necrotic Ooze, also weak to GY hate, but I feel is worth it. It works with: Fauna Shaman, Hermit Druid, Dimir house guard, golgari grave-troll, in addition to all the other things your opponents may have. As a bonus, you can let your general hit the GY, should he get caught in a boardsweeper, and let Necrotic Ooze take his abilities, somewhat cheating Jarad's general recast cost. If you wish to go the combo route, you can also put in Devoted Druid/Quillspike, but that's a bit shaky.


    Splinterfright was "ok" when I had him in. Dredging two every turn was nice, especially with a Top on board, but I found other cards I really wanted in the deck more than him.

    Necrotic Ooze is a card we've been talking about since Jarad was spoiled. On the original deck building chat (one of the spoiler threads), we discussed Necrotic Ooze being put into the deck, and my worry at the time was having to build around him. That really hasn't changed, we have so few creatures with activated abilities, and we can't always count on our opponents to give us good activated abilities (Commander seems to be all about the triggered/ETB abilities these days). IF you chose to build around the Ooze, then I could see it being a great addition, but I don't want to sacrifice key pieces to make another creature (that's not Jarad) better.

    Quote from KTROJAN
    Some quick thoughts asuza, crucible, ashnods alter, glissa, the trator, and why no living death? It's crazy in these decks I personally prefer karador but it's the same idea.

    With your creature ramp I don't see why coffers would be bad by its self?

    As far as dropping cards I'd think filth, forays, garruk, Bitterblossom, and hatred.

    Not sure of your budget but natural order over worldly tutor and mana crypt over a land would be good too IMO.

    Just my quick thoughts on seeing it and having not played it I might be wrong.


    Crucible of Worlds is a card I'd like to fit in the 99, but haven't found the room yet. Azusa and Glissa really don't belong here (we're not looking to ramp every turn, and we don't run enough or the right artifacts for Glissa).

    Living Death would be a great addition. That's something I'd like to get in. My only worry is drawing it turn 1 - 6(ish) and it's most likely a dead card. But, any time mid to late game and it probably wins us the game, lol.

    Hatred? You really want to drop a card that combos with the general to kill everyone? Filth is an alternate wincon when paired with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.

    It's funny you mention Mana Crypt, I just added that to the "Fit List" last night. I'll try -1 land +1 Mana Crypt.

    I like Natural Order in most green decks, but I'm not sure if I like it more or less in a deck that tries to keep most things in the yard. Also, I wouldn't cut Wordly for it, as Worldly can tutor something right into the yard (in response to various triggers).


    Even though we don't agree on everything, I really appreciate all the feedback/suggestions/comments! Keep 'em coming!
  • #47
    Suprised there is no splinterfright or kessig cagebreakers in this deck cagebreakers is just boss in a dredge type of deck and splinterfright up just fills your bin up, majority of the stuff from innistrad i would use things like ghoultree, spiderspawning e.t.c
    360 pauper cube
  • #48
    Quote from coona93
    Suprised there is no splinterfright or kessig cagebreakers in this deck cagebreakers is just boss in a dredge type of deck and splinterfright up just fills your bin up, majority of the stuff from innistrad i would use things like ghoultree, spiderspawning e.t.c


    As I've previously stated twice, Splinterfright is interesting, but there were better cards available (Sewer Nemesis does essentially the same thing, but better, and it's bigger than Splinterfright).

    I've also previously discussed Ghoultree (we're looking for creatures that actually do something other than just being fat, there are plenty of fat creatures we don't run). Wurm Harvest (similar to Spider Spawning) or other spells that make a bunch of little creatures was discussed a couple pages back.

    Thanks for the feedback and suggestions, they're much appreciated!
  • #49
    @RWF_Less

    Hey boss. After looking over your list, the only major suggestion I would make would be dropping Hatred for a non-one shot card. You need something that adds versatility rather than surprise. I get the feeling your main strategy is winning through combat damage. If that's the case, have you considered stuff like Sword of Feast and Famine or maybe Glistening Oil? Oil's recurability and Infect bonus make it an easy way to kill opponents.
    Hatred works in it's current slot, and is a GREAT surprise, but I feel either of these would help with performance.


    Thanks, Heroes of The Planes! You guys are great!

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  • #50
    Quote from Jack_from_NC
    @RWF_Less

    Hey boss. After looking over your list, the only major suggestion I would make would be dropping Hatred for a non-one shot card. You need something that adds versatility rather than surprise. I get the feeling your main strategy is winning through combat damage. If that's the case, have you considered stuff like Sword of Feast and Famine or maybe Glistening Oil? Oil's recurability and Infect bonus make it an easy way to kill opponents.
    Hatred works in it's current slot, and is a GREAT surprise, but I feel either of these would help with performance.


    Actually, I have yet to win through combat damage. Jarad's second ability and Altar of Dementia are the only ways I've won so far. Hatred has never been used on anything other than a creature to sac with Jarad, so I don't know that I'll ever use it for combat damage.

    SoFaF an Glistening Oil are certainly interesting choices though. I'll have to go through the list and see if I can make room.

    Thanks for the suggestions Jack! Grin
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