Good call. More fixing is very welcome. This is shaping up to be a very strong set for this deck. Maybe we'll get a terrible counterspell that's actually good for us and unplayable elsewhere.
So curiously, when adding in Hypnotic Siren and Triton Shorestalker I looked at Green's Sun Zenith and wondered what it was really doing. As the green creature count drops and more good blue evasive creatures get printed that support Force, there is less and less use for it.
Certainly it's great in finding a tucked Edric, and useful in mana ramping with a Dryad Arbor, but aside from finding Eladamri to Shroud up Edric, it seems relatively weak, I ended up cutting it and going with a Noxious Revival giving me access to another Time spell, or Counter.
So curiously, when adding in Hypnotic Siren and Triton Shorestalker I looked at Green's Sun Zenith and wondered what it was really doing. As the green creature count drops and more good blue evasive creatures get printed that support Force, there is less and less use for it.
Certainly it's great in finding a tucked Edric, and useful in mana ramping with a Dryad Arbor, but aside from finding Eladamri to Shroud up Edric, it seems relatively weak, I ended up cutting it and going with a Noxious Revival giving me access to another Time spell, or Counter.
Thoughts?
It gets Dryad Arbor which is really the only thing it needs to do. Other than that there's Sylvan Safekeeper or Wirewood Symbiote for protection. I don't ever recall getting a card that wasn't one of these 3 (never been fortunate enough to have it when Edric got tucked). Noxious Revival is really strong in here so I can't fault you on that but I feel that GSZ takes up a mana dork slot so I'd cut an inferior mana dork or landwalker for it, I think it's better than Llanowar Elves.
EDIT: Not that I would cut Llanowar Elves, just trying to provide some context.
It gets Dryad Arbor which is really the only thing it needs to do. Other than that there's Sylvan Safekeeper or Wirewood Symbiote for protection. I don't ever recall getting a card that wasn't one of these 3 (never been fortunate enough to have it when Edric got tucked). Noxious Revival is really strong in here so I can't fault you on that but I feel that GSZ takes up a mana dork slot so I'd cut an inferior mana dork or landwalker for it, I think it's better than Llanowar Elves.
EDIT: Not that I would cut Llanowar Elves, just trying to provide some context.
(that quote is from Donald - I really need to figure out how to attribute quotes)
Again Dryad Arbor is fine, but not great, if you are looking for 1 mana ramp that is fine. As for Sylvan Safekeeper, it's incredible but it really can set you back in the early game if you have to use it repetitively - again of course this is not a late game deck anyway. As to Wirewood, while it protects Edric more, it seemingly is almost a win more card if you are using it to untap a creature as you are positing the existence of Priest of Titania and a bunch of Elves. The Symbiote is less then optimal when someone attempts to Plow/Bolt/Dismember/Warp/whatever Edric during the attack phase, because you lose the draws from Edric when you bounce him.
Dresden - I think GSZ would be an ideal finisher in the form of Craterhoof Behemoth if I played a creature like that, but I don't run anything with more than a 3 CMC creature (Edric). If GSZ got Throng, Beastmaster's or Walk then I would keep it as it could finish.
(that quote is from Donald - I really need to figure out how to attribute quotes)
You can just put =Donald after quote. You can quote this to see the formatting.
Quote from Beralt »
Again Dryad Arbor is fine, but not great, if you are looking for 1 mana ramp that is fine. As for Sylvan Safekeeper, it's incredible but it really can set you back in the early game if you have to use it repetitively - again of course this is not a late game deck anyway. As to Wirewood, while it protects Edric more, it seemingly is almost a win more card if you are using it to untap a creature as you are positing the existence of Priest of Titania and a bunch of Elves. The Symbiote is less then optimal when someone attempts to Plow/Bolt/Dismember/Warp/whatever Edric during the attack phase, because you lose the draws from Edric when you bounce him.
Dresden - I think GSZ would be an ideal finisher in the form of Craterhoof Behemoth if I played a creature like that, but I don't run anything with more than a 3 CMC creature (Edric). If GSZ got Throng, Beastmaster's or Walk then I would keep it as it could finish.
I've had Safekeeper set me back before to the point where I couldn't win but honestly in those games it's holding off so many removal spells I'd have lost anyways. It's much better than the Symbiote but there are occasionally times when Symbiote is better.
Thassa's Rebuff has been serving well. At worst it has been a second Mana Leak and just scales with the game after. Also, with the cut of two green 1cc forest-walk for Hypnotic Siren and Triton Shorestalker the deck is leaning heavy blue in the early game for devotion.
Thassa's Rebuff has been serving well. At worst it has been a second Mana Leak and just scales with the game after. Also, with the cut of two green 1cc forest-walk for Hypnotic Siren and Triton Shorestalker the deck is leaning heavy blue in the early game for devotion.
I've thought about Thassa's Rebuff but I wasn't sure if it would be better than Rune Snag or not. You may be right though about it being closer to Mana Leak, I'll try it out and see how it does.
I've thought about Thassa's Rebuff but I wasn't sure if it would be better than Rune Snag or not. You may be right though about it being closer to Mana Leak, I'll try it out and see how it does.
In this deck it is equivalent to Spell Syphon. I never tested that one however, so I thought Thassa's Rebuff was worth mentioning. Honestly, I forgot about Spell Syphon.
In this deck it is equivalent to Spell Syphon. I never tested that one however, so I thought Thassa's Rebuff was worth mentioning. Honestly, I forgot about Spell Syphon.
The deck used to be much more green heavy so I think we all dismissed it. But yeah thanks for mentioning Rebuff I'll try it out.
Hey thanks for the informative primer- I'm building a list very similar to this one and am super excited. Can anyone tell me their thoughts on Lightning Greaves in this style of deck? It seems really good at protecting Edric. Why was it cut/not included in the first place?
Hey thanks for the informative primer- I'm building a list very similar to this one and am super excited. Can anyone tell me their thoughts on Lightning Greaves in this style of deck? It seems really good at protecting Edric. Why was it cut/not included in the first place?
The haste is not all that important as the card quality in the deck is abysmal. Like so bad Skullclamp isn't even good enough. So the main reason to play it is shroud which is nice but there are cheaper ways to protect Edric on creatures. It's not bad so you can try it out if you want but I eventually cut it because I didn't feel it was worth the mana. Anyways have fun with the deck, it's pretty powerful but also pretty fragile if people metagame against it.
Am concerned about Supreme Verdict in particular. Other wipes tend to be counterable so those should be ok, not sure if I'm over-thinking it but will try it out and see! Have NO and Behemoth to try and finish the game quicker than waiting around to draw Beastmaster Ascension
Am concerned about Supreme Verdict in particular. Other wipes tend to be counterable so those should be ok, not sure if I'm over-thinking it but will try it out and see! Have NO and Behemoth to try and finish the game quicker than waiting around to draw Beastmaster Ascension
Caller of the Claw is a cool answer to Verdict, I like it more than Wrap in Vigor as it works against any wrath (can't be regenerated ones), including a cycled Decree of Pain which can be annoying for this deck too. (At least you can Voidslime that ability I guess)
Caller of the Claw is a cool answer to Verdict, I like it more than Wrap in Vigor as it works against any wrath (can't be regenerated ones), including a cycled Decree of Pain which can be annoying for this deck too. (At least you can Voidslime that ability I guess)
I try to counter black tutors if possible for this reason. Best answer I think is to kill them before they cast it. Volcanic Fallout and Engineered Explosives are the really scary ones.
Caller of the Claw is a cool answer to Verdict, I like it more than Wrap in Vigor as it works against any wrath (can't be regenerated ones), including a cycled Decree of Pain which can be annoying for this deck too. (At least you can Voidslime that ability I guess)
I try to counter black tutors if possible for this reason. Best answer I think is to kill them before they cast it. Volcanic Fallout and Engineered Explosives are the really scary ones.
Good thing no one in my meta runs Volcanic Fallout! However people have recently started playing Engineered Explosives - hasn't come up while playing Edric yet, and I didn't even think of it tbh, but yeah - I can see it being annoying ~.~ lol. Recently playing Edric against Marath, Will of the Wild has been annoying too, it being able to kill any of our critters, including Edric.
Good thing no one in my meta runs Volcanic Fallout! However people have recently started playing Engineered Explosives - hasn't come up while playing Edric yet, and I didn't even think of it tbh, but yeah - I can see it being annoying ~.~ lol. Recently playing Edric against Marath, Will of the Wild has been annoying too, it being able to kill any of our critters, including Edric.
Marath is a huge pain to play against. Not much you can do really unless you're able to counter it but they can play it turn 2 off a mana dork…
Chain of Vapor is amazing. Don't forget you can bounce your own stuff. Moxes/Mana Crypt, saving your guys from spot removal, etc. and you can just sac a land and bounce something of theirs after. I've even used it to bounce several of my creatures in response to a sweeper. Really fantastic card. Even without the moxes/crypt I'd probably still run it. The others are all more situational but I'd say you always want to run Mana Leak, Flusterstorm and Spell Pierce unless you have a weird meta. Daze is fine to cut, Submerge is completely dependent on how often you have a forest on the other side of the table. I'm happy with it on MTGO against randoms.
Marath is a huge pain to play against. Not much you can do really unless you're able to counter it but they can play it turn 2 off a mana dork…
Chain of Vapor is amazing. Don't forget you can bounce your own stuff. Moxes/Mana Crypt, saving your guys from spot removal, etc. and you can just sac a land and bounce something of theirs after. I've even used it to bounce several of my creatures in response to a sweeper. Really fantastic card. Even without the moxes/crypt I'd probably still run it. The others are all more situational but I'd say you always want to run Mana Leak, Flusterstorm and Spell Pierce unless you have a weird meta. Daze is fine to cut, Submerge is completely dependent on how often you have a forest on the other side of the table. I'm happy with it on MTGO against randoms.
I should probably try out Chain of Vapor then. Hadn't thought of using it to bounce multiple of my own things, that makes it interesting. Might try it out in Rapid Hybridization's place. I might also remove Plasm Capture (replaced Mystic Snake a while back) and Time Stretch (probably costs too much) for Mana Leak and maybe Negate - which is probably better than Spell Pierce.. (I'll probably hold off on Flusterstorm though considering a MP one is $40 USD >_> lol)
EDH Decks:
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Ezuri, Renegade Leader 1v1
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher 1v1
Hythonia the Cruel
Trying to build:
Jenara, Asura of War
Designing a Custom Set:
Clash of the Cultures: 5 Wedges, 5 Cultures
Providing Artwork for:
Archester: Frontier of Steam
Looks like Nyx has been really kind to the Edric decks
EDH Decks:
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Ezuri, Renegade Leader 1v1
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher 1v1
Hythonia the Cruel
Trying to build:
Jenara, Asura of War
Designing a Custom Set:
Clash of the Cultures: 5 Wedges, 5 Cultures
Providing Artwork for:
Archester: Frontier of Steam
1 Hypnotic Siren
1 Triton Shorestalker
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Galerider Sliver
1 Spire Tracer
1 Willow Dryad
1 Jukai Messenger
1 Grayscaled Gharial
1 Shanodin Dryads
1 Marsh Boa
Hopefully didn't miss anything. Cut the landwalkers for creatures with more reliable evasion, added a fixer and another mana dork.
Currently working on making this a primer, hopefully soon.
EDIT: Holy crap Triton Shorestalker is a rogue too. That guy's insane.
Certainly it's great in finding a tucked Edric, and useful in mana ramping with a Dryad Arbor, but aside from finding Eladamri to Shroud up Edric, it seems relatively weak, I ended up cutting it and going with a Noxious Revival giving me access to another Time spell, or Counter.
Thoughts?
It gets Dryad Arbor which is really the only thing it needs to do. Other than that there's Sylvan Safekeeper or Wirewood Symbiote for protection. I don't ever recall getting a card that wasn't one of these 3 (never been fortunate enough to have it when Edric got tucked). Noxious Revival is really strong in here so I can't fault you on that but I feel that GSZ takes up a mana dork slot so I'd cut an inferior mana dork or landwalker for it, I think it's better than Llanowar Elves.
EDIT: Not that I would cut Llanowar Elves, just trying to provide some context.
(that quote is from Donald - I really need to figure out how to attribute quotes)
Again Dryad Arbor is fine, but not great, if you are looking for 1 mana ramp that is fine. As for Sylvan Safekeeper, it's incredible but it really can set you back in the early game if you have to use it repetitively - again of course this is not a late game deck anyway. As to Wirewood, while it protects Edric more, it seemingly is almost a win more card if you are using it to untap a creature as you are positing the existence of Priest of Titania and a bunch of Elves. The Symbiote is less then optimal when someone attempts to Plow/Bolt/Dismember/Warp/whatever Edric during the attack phase, because you lose the draws from Edric when you bounce him.
Dresden - I think GSZ would be an ideal finisher in the form of Craterhoof Behemoth if I played a creature like that, but I don't run anything with more than a 3 CMC creature (Edric). If GSZ got Throng, Beastmaster's or Walk then I would keep it as it could finish.
You can just put =Donald after quote. You can quote this to see the formatting.
I've had Safekeeper set me back before to the point where I couldn't win but honestly in those games it's holding off so many removal spells I'd have lost anyways. It's much better than the Symbiote but there are occasionally times when Symbiote is better.
Green Sun's Zenith out for Chord of Calling giving me access to all sorts of shenanigans at instant speed. I will let you know how it goes.
I know it's not reusable and potentially costs more mana but the instant speed tutoring aspect is insane.
In this deck it is equivalent to Spell Syphon. I never tested that one however, so I thought Thassa's Rebuff was worth mentioning. Honestly, I forgot about Spell Syphon.
The deck used to be much more green heavy so I think we all dismissed it. But yeah thanks for mentioning Rebuff I'll try it out.
The haste is not all that important as the card quality in the deck is abysmal. Like so bad Skullclamp isn't even good enough. So the main reason to play it is shroud which is nice but there are cheaper ways to protect Edric on creatures. It's not bad so you can try it out if you want but I eventually cut it because I didn't feel it was worth the mana. Anyways have fun with the deck, it's pretty powerful but also pretty fragile if people metagame against it.
Am concerned about Supreme Verdict in particular. Other wipes tend to be counterable so those should be ok, not sure if I'm over-thinking it but will try it out and see! Have NO and Behemoth to try and finish the game quicker than waiting around to draw Beastmaster Ascension
Caller of the Claw is a cool answer to Verdict, I like it more than Wrap in Vigor as it works against any wrath (can't be regenerated ones), including a cycled Decree of Pain which can be annoying for this deck too. (At least you can Voidslime that ability I guess)
I try to counter black tutors if possible for this reason. Best answer I think is to kill them before they cast it. Volcanic Fallout and Engineered Explosives are the really scary ones.
Good thing no one in my meta runs Volcanic Fallout! However people have recently started playing Engineered Explosives - hasn't come up while playing Edric yet, and I didn't even think of it tbh, but yeah - I can see it being annoying ~.~ lol. Recently playing Edric against Marath, Will of the Wild has been annoying too, it being able to kill any of our critters, including Edric.
Just wondering how these cards have performed for you in your list: Chain of Vapor, Flusterstorm, Spell Pierce, Daze, Mana Leak and Submerge. My meta problems ramps too much for some of these? Maybe I should start noting down how many times an opponent taps out against me to play a wrath. Then again my list is a bit slower too, not running Chrome Mox, Lotus Petal, Mana Crypt and Mox Diamond.
Marath is a huge pain to play against. Not much you can do really unless you're able to counter it but they can play it turn 2 off a mana dork…
Chain of Vapor is amazing. Don't forget you can bounce your own stuff. Moxes/Mana Crypt, saving your guys from spot removal, etc. and you can just sac a land and bounce something of theirs after. I've even used it to bounce several of my creatures in response to a sweeper. Really fantastic card. Even without the moxes/crypt I'd probably still run it. The others are all more situational but I'd say you always want to run Mana Leak, Flusterstorm and Spell Pierce unless you have a weird meta. Daze is fine to cut, Submerge is completely dependent on how often you have a forest on the other side of the table. I'm happy with it on MTGO against randoms.
I should probably try out Chain of Vapor then. Hadn't thought of using it to bounce multiple of my own things, that makes it interesting. Might try it out in Rapid Hybridization's place. I might also remove Plasm Capture (replaced Mystic Snake a while back) and Time Stretch (probably costs too much) for Mana Leak and maybe Negate - which is probably better than Spell Pierce.. (I'll probably hold off on Flusterstorm though considering a MP one is $40 USD >_> lol)