I've decided to run both of the Piracy effects in my deck because it allows me to need less creatures in order to generate insurmountable card advantage. Granted, I've not tested it out to see if it's redundant, but I think that being able to churn through more cards will help increase the consistency of the deck and magnifies the power of each Flying Man (or variant of it) significantly.
I recently acquired all the pieces for the deck and went with a Back to Basics game plan. Do note that I am proxying some of the cards since they are in other decks and I see no reason to purchase other copies of the cards. Consequently, my list is much heavier on the basic land count to maximize the value it generates without impacting my ability to cast spells. Orochi Leafcaller is some secret tech that I appreciate NimBaylor showing. It makes Gaea's Cradle tap for ALL the blue things, which sounds fantastic to me. It also has some cards in the higher CMC range to help provide an ability to grind in the long game since mass removal and spot removal is very common in my playgroup. While it ultimately may not matter very much in practice, in theory it seems like it would help.
@umtiger
Yeah, Opposition was suggested to be used almost strictly as a Port effect. Because of the specific creature selection in the list, we don't really care too much about what creatures our opponents have to block with. But we do care about what spells they are casting, and if we can turn our admittedly weak and pathetic creatures into living Rishadan Ports and help maintain the tempo of the game, that seems inherently strong to me.
@akroma44
I'll second that. I really like the simple mana base of Edric so I don't know that opening up an additional weakness on top of the flying men strategy is great. I do like the fact that you open up additional options in the removal department. Also, Tymna doesn't generate as much explosive card advantage as Edric does and requires you to spread the damage, but that may not ultimately matter very much.
For me, Orochi Leafcaller is there to help generate Blue mana when Winter Orb is out, with several mana elves creating green it felt like a good way to fix color a bit. Even more so since I only run a handful of duals. Though indeed, for those that have Cradle they can turn that to Blue mana as well.
I'll probably be adding Bident of Thassa and Coastal Piracy as well for redundancy, just need to do some trading first to make up for the Mox and getting the remaining cards that I want. Aside from the two card draw effects, I'll probably see if I can find a Walk the Aeons as well to bump up the taking turn package just a little bit. It's one of the more affordable ones that doesn't exile itself after all. Noxious Revival is another card I'll be looking for soon.
Also am considering trying LabMan in the deck, the deck does enjoy drawing those cards so might be an option.
I built this deck because I wanted to build a deck that ate the decks in my meta. Its gone through a few iterations, but it has been pretty successful at our weekly EDH league. There are some lands that I'm missing (Tundra and Bayou), but the shocklands have worked ok.
Most of these are probably ok. Finding the right mix of flying men, removal, protection, and finishers. If anyone wants to give it a go, be my guest. Some of my favorite cards that you can't play in Edric are Abzan Ascendancy, Flurry of Wings, and Lingering Souls.
@akroma44
I really admire your list, actually. It has a super strong hate-bear suite and has a really streamlined curve. I highly recommend Grafdigger's Cage since Hermit Druid decks are making a comeback with Necrotic Ooze combos being much more accessible, but you do have a ton of activated ability hate already in your deck.
Also, I highly recommend Mana Leak. In the meta you're playing in, I think that the Leak is almost always going to be a hard counter. I believe it could take the place of Delay in your current list.
I guess my only real concern is whether or not you are ever color-screwed and if you have enough creatures attacking your opponents to reliably trigger Tymna the Weaver. Once you get Edric or the Piracy into play, it helps solve the card advantage issue that I see your deck (and Edric-based strategies generally) could be weak to.
@umtiger: I'm not sure if it was really necessary, but I wanted to try brewing a unique deck that I haven't really seen on CEDH forums. My group asks me the same question, and the answer is I really wanted to do something new. Also, I wanted to play CEDH with cards that aren't even common in normal EDH lol.
@Benjameenbear: I'll try out Grafdigger's Cage out over something. I've been leaning on cutting Sol Ring (blasphemous, I know) because it is mostly used just as a ritual to cast Time Warps. There isn't a whole lot of generic mana costs in the deck. Also, casting Tymna the Weaver a turn early is not really a priority, as having her out on an empty board isn't very helpful.
The other day I had a hand that would normally be very good in any other deck, but was just ok in this one. I went t1 land, mox diamond, mana crypt, Tymna. t1 tymna isn't even that good in here, but its ok. I would much rather t1 flying men, t2 hate bear, t3 tymna draw 2.
I put Delay in over Mana Drain, mostly because I wanted a hard counter that didn't cost UU. Also, the colorless mana was not very useful. Most of the time it would be used to help draw a card with Thrasios.
Not having enough creatures is definitely a concern. That is where having 2 cheap commanders really helps come into play, because you can typically use Thrasios to attack early and help you draw into action.
Whether or not this list is actually better than traditional Edric remains to be seen. I wanted to experiment, and I've had much success in my meta. I have the advantage of playing awesome white hate cards that don't really bother us, but affect most other CEDH decks. This list seems to play like an aggro-control legacy list, where I try to stick an early threat and control opponents until I get a critical mass and win. Its not as explosive or consistent as Edric, but one of the advantages is that new opponents will either think you are on some Doomsday or Laboratory Maniac plan, or think you are playing a bad deck going t1 Prickly Boggart. The other advantage is you get to play a much more reactive playstyle, considering the 22 instants in the deck. 1 for 1 removal typically isn't that good in EDH, but in this deck we get very cheap draw engines, so the cheap removal has a much lower opportunity cost. Also having cheap draw engines lets us play conditional hate cards without a huge drawback because if we draw Rest in Peace and no opponent is on the graveyard plan, we probably still have other cards to play, and having one dead card isn't that big of a deal.
Ok, I was rambling a good bit there. I'm updating the deck a bit and bringing it to my Thursday EDH league. I'll try to record some games and see what I learn.
@akroma44
I definitely agree that Mana Drain is too color intensive for your list, hence the inclusion of any and all 1U counterspells. I still think Mana Leak is a criminally underrated card in cEDH because the margins for mana are so thin in a typical game, so it more often than not acts like a hard counter.
I think cutting Sol Ring for the Cage is a decent idea. You are right that Sol Ring acts simply as a ritual, and nothing more, so it might be more useful to put in a relevant hate card.
Also, what are everyone's thoughts on running Pithing Needle and Sorcerous Spyglass? They are narrow hate cards, granted, but I feel that being able to spend 1 slot and disrupt entire deck strategies is so worth it. Especially with all the cheap counter magic in the deck, it would be very easy to keep that Needle/Spyglass alive to make Food Chain decks irrelevant.
I thought Pithing Needle and Sorcerous Spyglass didn't work on Food Chain as it's a mana ability? Anyway, I'd prefer a Phyrexian Revoker over those two cards - not only is it a creature so can get Edric (or Tymna if you're working on that variation) triggers, but it can stop mana abilities from working. Shutting down a couple of Sol Rings turn two is rather amusing.
Pithing Needle just isn't worth it. It's very low impact and a speed-bump towards you snowballing an advantage. And when you need it, you'll never draw it in time often enough.
Definitely run lock pieces instead. Null Rod/Cursed Totem/Winter Orb are brutal.
@akroma44 and @umtiger
Thanks for your feedback! I agree that the effectiveness of either of the Needle variants is probably decreased in this deck since it does want to be attacking with creatures consistently. I think most of the reason I ask is because I am considering the two needle variants for my other cEDH decks, notably Teferi Stax and Kaalia since they already run Cursed Totem, Winter Orb, and Torpor Orb, and I've not really received much feedback on it.
In other news, the Back to Basics version of the deck I decided to build has been performing very well recently. The MVP card of several matches, surprisingly, has been Druids' Repository. It helps to get around the mana denial effects that are in the deck and I've actually been considering trying to find room for additional mana denial in Winter Orb and Rising Waters. Back to Basics has been great, but locking down some of my duals has been painful in maximizing the number of Flying Men I can play in one turn.
So I played at an EDH tourney at my friend's newly opened store. There were two games played and I played with my Edric list that I posted, sans Craterhoof Behemoth and Biomass Mutation in its slot. Although I died, based on the points system for the game I came in first after killing 2 of my three opponents. Game report is below.
4 Player versus Rubinia Soulsinger, Oona, Odric, Edric
So I was last in the turn order based off the dice roll. Oona opens with both [CARD}Leyline of Anticipation[/CARD] and Leyline of the Void in his opening hand. I open with a couple of Flying Men, an Island, a Forest, Counterspell, Part the Waterveil, and Walk the Aeons. Not the best opener, but another land will make it a great hand. Oona is clearly the best deck at the table and the other two players aren't quite as experienced as me and the Oona player, so I automatically know who I'll be worried about. I play Flying Men and pass after Oona, Odric, and Rubinia all play a land and pass. Rubinia plays Elvish Visionary, passes. Oona plays a fetch land, passes. Odric plays a land passes. I draw a second Forest and play Orochi Leafcaller and Guduk Lurker. Rubinia plays a Farhaven Elf and passes. Oona, who I'm pretty sure has counterspells and removal doesn't do anything on his turn, which leaves me worried. Odric plays the new blink Angel from Hour of Devastation and passes. I cast Edric, and it resolves, and I attack the people who can't block to draw some cards. Rubinia plays Rubinia and passes. Oona plays a land and passes. Odric plays a Mind's Eye and attacks the Oona player. I untap, attack with my dudes to draw some cards. This is where the game gets a little hazy, because it kinda dragged out for a while. Oona playing at instant speed is really annoying because he was able to Damnation in response to the Odric player casting Indestructible on his Angel. I recast Edric two more times, and there eventually comes a point where Oona is attempting to go off. I have Familiar's Ruse and Silumgar Sorceror in my hand, and I think that he's going to try and use Ghostly Flicker, Peregrine Drake, and Archaeomancer to go infinite. He casts Dark Ritual into the Peregrine Drake, with 6 mana available. I cast Familiar's Ruse, returning my Edric to hand as part of the cost. He casts Archaeomancer in response, and I cast Silumgar Sorceror in response. He Stifles the Sorceror trigger, but now only has a single blue mana left. Looking through his 'yard, he doesn't have a counterspell for my Ruse and picks up Brianstorm. He digs through the top 3 cards, but doesn't find a counterspell. My Ruse resolves and his Peregrine Drake gets countered, breaking up his combo. Odric attacks him with some Angels and brings his life total to 6. I decide that this is my opportunity to kill Oona with the Time Walk variants I've drawn over the course of the game. I cast Time Warp and Edric, attack with two 1/1 fliers. I attack again, cast Notorious Throng after attacking, killing the Oona player. I then have to try and figure out how to get past Rubinia and Odric's mass of flying creatures. Thankfully, Rubinia does it for me with the energy whale that returns all creatures to their owners' hands. Odric and I rebuild our boards while Rubinia creates a horde of myr tokens off a spell I can't remember. Odric casts Akroma, Angel of Wrath and Angel of Jubilation, and attacks me. I cast some fliers, then cast Mystical Tutor to find Biomass Mutation, and then cast Walk the Aeons and Edric, paying the buyback cost for the Walk. I draw into Druids' Repository, which is awesome since I can cast the Mutation after I declare attackers during his declare blockers step. I cast the Mutation of x=8 and kill the Rubinia player with my 3 fliers, brining him from 12 to 0. Odric plays his general and a couple of other creatures and spreads the combat abilities around and kills me. A fun game, and I think that the newer players enjoyed it as much as I did. Based on the points system, I had the most points so even though I died I still won the Pod.
All in all, a good game and it makes me want to tweak the deck slightly and add more unblockable creatures and remove the mana dorks. I drew them, but they felt mostly useless over the course of the game as they couldn't get through the blockers that people had.
Looking over people's lists and comments it seems for ramp lots of people are running mana dorks like Arbor Elf while staying away from non-creature sources of ramp like Harvest Season, with the exception of Druids' Repository since it works well with land stax cards like Winter Orb.
What about the Explore Dorks like Elvish Pioneer, Sakura-Tribe Scout, and Skyshroud Ranger? We have low land counts so they can't immediately give us value like a Llanowar Elves always can, but once we start drawing cards we always have extra lands to drop, and when we don't they are still creatures to attack with (assuming someone is open). Are they still good or have people moved away from them?
Looking over people's lists and comments it seems for ramp lots of people are running mana dorks like Arbor Elf while staying away from non-creature sources of ramp like Harvest Season, with the exception of Druids' Repository since it works well with land stax cards like Winter Orb.
What about the Explore Dorks like Elvish Pioneer, Sakura-Tribe Scout, and Skyshroud Ranger? We have low land counts so they can't immediately give us value like a Llanowar Elves always can, but once we start drawing cards we always have extra lands to drop, and when we don't they are still creatures to attack with (assuming someone is open). Are they still good or have people moved away from them?
Edric pretty much relies on having weenies to swing in with, either with Overrun-like effects or by chaining turns, so mana dorks eventually become potential damage dealers as well, where spell based ramp only provides mana sources. Running low costed creature based ramp is just more favorable in this kind of deck.
Winter Orb will limit what Explore Dorks can do, since you are limited on what you can untap. Though to be honest I felt Orb limited me a fair bit and without Reliquary Tower it made chaining turns a bit more challenging, so I dropped Orb from my list. Furthermore, these dorks do rely on you having a land in hand. Most Edric lists will run Exploration already and when you get multiple effects like this it just does less. Sure, being able to churn out lands has a great upside, but regular mana dorks are just a tad bit more consistent in what they do.
The Ranger is probably not too bad, but Pioneer only has an ETB trigger and thus you can end up playing him without getting anything out of it, making it somewhat worse than a mana dork if you can't bounce him. Sakura-Tribe Scout just has less relevant subtypes, not being an elf or rogue is something to take in account as well.
IMO, Elvish Pioneer is the best of the "explore" dorks - there are times when either you don't have a land to play with him, or by using his trigger you miss the next land drop, but if you find you can reliably use his trigger and still hit your normal land drops, which is not unfeasible in Edric, he's one of the the best mana creatures we have, because swinging with him doesn't impact on his mana generation - while over the course of a game Skyshroud Ranger will be able to ramp by more, Elvish Pioneer just drops a land then starts drawing cards.
I actually put him above Arbor Elf in my deck (the three Llanowar Elves and Dryad Arbor/Green Sun's Zenith come first) - my basic land count is heavily weighted towards islands (most of the evasive 1 drops are blue, as are the counterspells), relying on non-basics for much of my green mana and I'm not lucky enough to have a Tropical Island, so I often find that Arbor Elf doesn't have anything to untap, particularly early game - I'd say the odds of a T2 Edric are better with an Elvish Pioneerand said Pioneer can swing that turn.
IMO, Elvish Pioneer is the best of the "explore" dorks - there are times when either you don't have a land to play with him, or by using his trigger you miss the next land drop, but if you find you can reliably use his trigger and still hit your normal land drops, which is not unfeasible in Edric, he's one of the the best mana creatures we have, because swinging with him doesn't impact on his mana generation - while over the course of a game Skyshroud Ranger will be able to ramp by more, Elvish Pioneer just drops a land then starts drawing cards.
I actually put him above Arbor Elf in my deck (the three Llanowar Elves and Dryad Arbor/Green Sun's Zenith come first) - my basic land count is heavily weighted towards islands (most of the evasive 1 drops are blue, as are the counterspells), relying on non-basics for much of my green mana and I'm not lucky enough to have a Tropical Island, so I often find that Arbor Elf doesn't have anything to untap, particularly early game - I'd say the odds of a T2 Edric are better with an Elvish Pioneerand said Pioneer can swing that turn.
The entire deck is about starts like that.
If I cast Llanowar Elves, I would be playing 3 creatures on turn 2 in order to swing and draw 4 cards on turn 3. The Pioneer is great
While I do play a more casual list than you guys, I feel like this inclusion is worth considering in the discussion of Skyshroud Ranger and company. Has anyone tried Budoka Gardener? While the card doesn't complement the super-fast beats that most competitive builds of Edric focus on, it provides an alternate win condition while not robbing the deck of a utility slot.
Unless you very reliably have hexproof guys, One With Nature will cause you to get 2-for-1'd. I'd go with Sword of the Animist instead. Which, since it only has to attack and doesn't need to hit, also gives you the desperation play for ramping: equip, swing, search, lose dude in combat, rinse, and repeat.
While I do play a more casual list than you guys, I feel like this inclusion is worth considering in the discussion of Skyshroud Ranger and company. Has anyone tried Budoka Gardener? While the card doesn't complement the super-fast beats that most competitive builds of Edric focus on, it provides an alternate win condition while not robbing the deck of a utility slot.
Unless you very reliably have hexproof guys, One With Nature will cause you to get 2-for-1'd. I'd go with Sword of the Animist instead. Which, since it only has to attack and doesn't need to hit, also gives you the desperation play for ramping: equip, swing, search, lose dude in combat, rinse, and repeat.
I'd be perfectly fine with getting only 1 land out of One with Nature if it means somebody wasted spot removal on a very replaceable creature instead of Edric. The deck seems to draw so many cards that an occasional 2-for-1 doesn't really set it back that much if things are even going partially to plan. And it is definitely a desperation play if you're attacking with non-evasive creatures and losing the attacker instead of connecting and drawing a card, just to ramp. In that circumstance, ramping doesn't seem like the solution to the problem.
I recently decided to slot in Harvest Season in the deck and it's surprisingly good. Casting it on T4+, so that you're holding counter-magic up, helps to thin your deck, double your landcount, and get into those Time Walk effects faster than anticipated. I've found that having 3-4 dudes attacking each turn is sufficient for Edric's trigger, and being able to convert each of those triggers into beneficial cards is great. I hate drawing lands off of Edric's trigger...
Elvish pioneer - a High Ceiling card,means that it's super good early games while meh in late games. Always create a godhand scenario with it in the starting hand.
Winter Orb - is the go to card for locking down the mana. Edric runs super cheap and efficient counters, even under the orb, the elves plus a land can effective neutralize a threat.
One with nature > Sword of Animist. merely because it cost too much for the effect... if the meta is slow, maybe .
Boduka gardener < Sakura tribe scout and Skyshroud ranger and exploration.. while this effect is good, the deck can function without them also. running the cheapest casting cost and 3 copies of such ability seems right.
For those seeking to dip their toes in viable silver-bordered cards, Cogmentor is a 1/1 flyer for a mere 1. Granted, the contraption reassembling ability is irrelevant here, but at least you don't have to do the hokey-pokey, put your head on the table, put your hands behind your back, cluck like a chicken, say specific words, care about collector numbers or watermarks, throw cards, ask for outside assistance, etc. to run it. So I guess it's okay.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
I recently acquired all the pieces for the deck and went with a Back to Basics game plan. Do note that I am proxying some of the cards since they are in other decks and I see no reason to purchase other copies of the cards. Consequently, my list is much heavier on the basic land count to maximize the value it generates without impacting my ability to cast spells. Orochi Leafcaller is some secret tech that I appreciate NimBaylor showing. It makes Gaea's Cradle tap for ALL the blue things, which sounds fantastic to me. It also has some cards in the higher CMC range to help provide an ability to grind in the long game since mass removal and spot removal is very common in my playgroup. While it ultimately may not matter very much in practice, in theory it seems like it would help.
Here's the decklist:
1x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Creatures (37)
1x Mausoleum Wanderer
1x Cursecatcher
1x Hypnotic Siren
1x Martyr of Frost
1x Siren Stormtamer
1x Hope of Ghirapur
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Arbor Elf
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Triton Shorestalker
1x Cloudfin Raptor
1x Slither Blade
1x Scryb Sprites
1x Jace’s Phantasm
1x Flying Men
1x Cloud Pirates
1x Wingcrafter
1x Gudul Lurker
1x Cloud Sprite
1x Zephyr Sprite
1x Galerider Sliver
1x Faerie Miscreant
1x Spiketail Hatchling
1x Cloud of Faeries
1x Priest of Titania
1x Stratus Dancer
1x Spellstutter Sprite
1x Waterfront Bouncer
1x Invisible Stalker
1x Silumgar Sorcerer
1x Eternal Witness
1x Thada Adel, Acquisitor
1x Mystic Snake
1x Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
1x Tishana, Voice of Thunder
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Spell Pierce
1x Abjure
1x Swan Song
1x Nature’s Claim
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Mana Leak
1x Heroic Intervention
1x Arcane Denial
1x Counterspell
1x Unified Will
1x Reality Shift
1x Unsubstantiate
1x Beast Within
1x Force of Will
Sorceries (6)
1x Green Sun’s Zenith
1x Notorious Throng
1x Time Warp
1x Part the Waterveil
1x Walk the Aeons
1x Temporal Trespass
Enchantments (6)
1x Druids’ Repository
1x Beastmaster Ascension
1x Back to Basics
1x Bident of Thassa
1x Coastal Piracy
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mox Diamond
1x Sol Ring
1x Throne of the God-Pharaoh
Lands (33)
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Breeding Pool
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Command Tower
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Flooded Strand
1x Polluted Delta
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Gaea’s Cradle
16x Island
8x Forest
@umtiger
Yeah, Opposition was suggested to be used almost strictly as a Port effect. Because of the specific creature selection in the list, we don't really care too much about what creatures our opponents have to block with. But we do care about what spells they are casting, and if we can turn our admittedly weak and pathetic creatures into living Rishadan Ports and help maintain the tempo of the game, that seems inherently strong to me.
@akroma44
I'll second that. I really like the simple mana base of Edric so I don't know that opening up an additional weakness on top of the flying men strategy is great. I do like the fact that you open up additional options in the removal department. Also, Tymna doesn't generate as much explosive card advantage as Edric does and requires you to spread the damage, but that may not ultimately matter very much.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I'll probably be adding Bident of Thassa and Coastal Piracy as well for redundancy, just need to do some trading first to make up for the Mox and getting the remaining cards that I want. Aside from the two card draw effects, I'll probably see if I can find a Walk the Aeons as well to bump up the taking turn package just a little bit. It's one of the more affordable ones that doesn't exile itself after all. Noxious Revival is another card I'll be looking for soon.
Also am considering trying LabMan in the deck, the deck does enjoy drawing those cards so might be an option.
3 Tymna the Weaver
2 Thrasios, Triton Hero
Creatures: 25
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gudul Lurker
1 Hope of Ghirapur
1 Hypnotic Siren
1 Judge's Familiar
1 Mother of Runes
1 Prickly Boggart
1 Serra Ascendant
1 Siren Stormtamer
1 Slitherblade
1 Soltari Foot Soldier
1 Topplegeist
1 Tormented Soul
1 Triton Shorestalker
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Selfless Spirit
2 Vault Skirge
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
3 Hushwing Gryff
4 Notion Thief
8 Craterhoof Behemoth
Artifacts: 7
0 Mana Crypt
0 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
2 Cursed Totem
2 Null Rod
2 Torpor Orb
4 Bident of Thassa
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Lingering Souls
4 Notorious Throng
5 Temporal Manipulation
5 Time Warp
6 Part the Waterveil
6 Walk the Aeons
7 Temporal Mastery
Instants: 22
1 Beckon Apparition
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Crop Rotation
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical T utor
1 Nature's Claim
1 Noxious Revival
1 Path to Exile
1 Swan Song
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Arcane Denial
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Delay
2 Negate
2 Unified Will
3 Anguished Unmaking
3 Beast Within
3 Flurry of Wings
4 Snuff Out
5 Submerge
Enchantments: 7
2 Bitterblossom
2 Rest in Peace
2 Suppression Field
3 Abzan Ascendancy
3 Aura Shards
3 Beastmaster Ascension
4 Coastal Piracy
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Botanical Sanctum
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Island
1 Mana Confluence
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Temple Garden
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
Here's the list I've been using. This deck has really been tuned to my meta, which includes a Hermit Druid/Food Chain General Tazri, Prossh, Skyraider of Kher, Ydris Maelstrom Wielder storm, Breya, Etherium Shaper, Doomsday Zur the Enchanter, and Teferi, Temporal Archmage stax. There are a few other decks, but I don't typically have problems with them.
I built this deck because I wanted to build a deck that ate the decks in my meta. Its gone through a few iterations, but it has been pretty successful at our weekly EDH league. There are some lands that I'm missing (Tundra and Bayou), but the shocklands have worked ok.
There are a few (many) cards I would like to try out. I'll probably be cylcing them in a few at a time over the next few weeks.
Dryad Militant, Cloud of Faeries, Leonin Arbiter, Gaddock Teeg, Saprazzan Legate, Grafdigger's Cage, Extract, Council's Judgment, Debt to the Deathless (over Craterhoof Behemoth), Natural State, Orim's Chant, Silence, Back to Nature, Murderous Cut, Teferi's Veil, and Training Grounds (for use with Thrasios).
Most of these are probably ok. Finding the right mix of flying men, removal, protection, and finishers. If anyone wants to give it a go, be my guest. Some of my favorite cards that you can't play in Edric are Abzan Ascendancy, Flurry of Wings, and Lingering Souls.
I really admire your list, actually. It has a super strong hate-bear suite and has a really streamlined curve. I highly recommend Grafdigger's Cage since Hermit Druid decks are making a comeback with Necrotic Ooze combos being much more accessible, but you do have a ton of activated ability hate already in your deck.
Also, I highly recommend Mana Leak. In the meta you're playing in, I think that the Leak is almost always going to be a hard counter. I believe it could take the place of Delay in your current list.
I guess my only real concern is whether or not you are ever color-screwed and if you have enough creatures attacking your opponents to reliably trigger Tymna the Weaver. Once you get Edric or the Piracy into play, it helps solve the card advantage issue that I see your deck (and Edric-based strategies generally) could be weak to.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
@Benjameenbear: I'll try out Grafdigger's Cage out over something. I've been leaning on cutting Sol Ring (blasphemous, I know) because it is mostly used just as a ritual to cast Time Warps. There isn't a whole lot of generic mana costs in the deck. Also, casting Tymna the Weaver a turn early is not really a priority, as having her out on an empty board isn't very helpful.
The other day I had a hand that would normally be very good in any other deck, but was just ok in this one. I went t1 land, mox diamond, mana crypt, Tymna. t1 tymna isn't even that good in here, but its ok. I would much rather t1 flying men, t2 hate bear, t3 tymna draw 2.
I put Delay in over Mana Drain, mostly because I wanted a hard counter that didn't cost UU. Also, the colorless mana was not very useful. Most of the time it would be used to help draw a card with Thrasios.
Not having enough creatures is definitely a concern. That is where having 2 cheap commanders really helps come into play, because you can typically use Thrasios to attack early and help you draw into action.
Whether or not this list is actually better than traditional Edric remains to be seen. I wanted to experiment, and I've had much success in my meta. I have the advantage of playing awesome white hate cards that don't really bother us, but affect most other CEDH decks. This list seems to play like an aggro-control legacy list, where I try to stick an early threat and control opponents until I get a critical mass and win. Its not as explosive or consistent as Edric, but one of the advantages is that new opponents will either think you are on some Doomsday or Laboratory Maniac plan, or think you are playing a bad deck going t1 Prickly Boggart. The other advantage is you get to play a much more reactive playstyle, considering the 22 instants in the deck. 1 for 1 removal typically isn't that good in EDH, but in this deck we get very cheap draw engines, so the cheap removal has a much lower opportunity cost. Also having cheap draw engines lets us play conditional hate cards without a huge drawback because if we draw Rest in Peace and no opponent is on the graveyard plan, we probably still have other cards to play, and having one dead card isn't that big of a deal.
Ok, I was rambling a good bit there. I'm updating the deck a bit and bringing it to my Thursday EDH league. I'll try to record some games and see what I learn.
I definitely agree that Mana Drain is too color intensive for your list, hence the inclusion of any and all 1U counterspells. I still think Mana Leak is a criminally underrated card in cEDH because the margins for mana are so thin in a typical game, so it more often than not acts like a hard counter.
I think cutting Sol Ring for the Cage is a decent idea. You are right that Sol Ring acts simply as a ritual, and nothing more, so it might be more useful to put in a relevant hate card.
Also, what are everyone's thoughts on running Pithing Needle and Sorcerous Spyglass? They are narrow hate cards, granted, but I feel that being able to spend 1 slot and disrupt entire deck strategies is so worth it. Especially with all the cheap counter magic in the deck, it would be very easy to keep that Needle/Spyglass alive to make Food Chain decks irrelevant.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Ah. You're right. Food Chain is indeed a mana ability. I'll have to re-evaluate their viability accordingly.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I'm not sure if I would play Pithing Needle in this deck. Null Rod and Cursed Totem are probably much better here.
Definitely run lock pieces instead. Null Rod/Cursed Totem/Winter Orb are brutal.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Thanks for your feedback! I agree that the effectiveness of either of the Needle variants is probably decreased in this deck since it does want to be attacking with creatures consistently. I think most of the reason I ask is because I am considering the two needle variants for my other cEDH decks, notably Teferi Stax and Kaalia since they already run Cursed Totem, Winter Orb, and Torpor Orb, and I've not really received much feedback on it.
In other news, the Back to Basics version of the deck I decided to build has been performing very well recently. The MVP card of several matches, surprisingly, has been Druids' Repository. It helps to get around the mana denial effects that are in the deck and I've actually been considering trying to find room for additional mana denial in Winter Orb and Rising Waters. Back to Basics has been great, but locking down some of my duals has been painful in maximizing the number of Flying Men I can play in one turn.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
4 Player versus Rubinia Soulsinger, Oona, Odric, Edric
So I was last in the turn order based off the dice roll. Oona opens with both [CARD}Leyline of Anticipation[/CARD] and Leyline of the Void in his opening hand. I open with a couple of Flying Men, an Island, a Forest, Counterspell, Part the Waterveil, and Walk the Aeons. Not the best opener, but another land will make it a great hand. Oona is clearly the best deck at the table and the other two players aren't quite as experienced as me and the Oona player, so I automatically know who I'll be worried about. I play Flying Men and pass after Oona, Odric, and Rubinia all play a land and pass. Rubinia plays Elvish Visionary, passes. Oona plays a fetch land, passes. Odric plays a land passes. I draw a second Forest and play Orochi Leafcaller and Guduk Lurker. Rubinia plays a Farhaven Elf and passes. Oona, who I'm pretty sure has counterspells and removal doesn't do anything on his turn, which leaves me worried. Odric plays the new blink Angel from Hour of Devastation and passes. I cast Edric, and it resolves, and I attack the people who can't block to draw some cards. Rubinia plays Rubinia and passes. Oona plays a land and passes. Odric plays a Mind's Eye and attacks the Oona player. I untap, attack with my dudes to draw some cards. This is where the game gets a little hazy, because it kinda dragged out for a while. Oona playing at instant speed is really annoying because he was able to Damnation in response to the Odric player casting Indestructible on his Angel. I recast Edric two more times, and there eventually comes a point where Oona is attempting to go off. I have Familiar's Ruse and Silumgar Sorceror in my hand, and I think that he's going to try and use Ghostly Flicker, Peregrine Drake, and Archaeomancer to go infinite. He casts Dark Ritual into the Peregrine Drake, with 6 mana available. I cast Familiar's Ruse, returning my Edric to hand as part of the cost. He casts Archaeomancer in response, and I cast Silumgar Sorceror in response. He Stifles the Sorceror trigger, but now only has a single blue mana left. Looking through his 'yard, he doesn't have a counterspell for my Ruse and picks up Brianstorm. He digs through the top 3 cards, but doesn't find a counterspell. My Ruse resolves and his Peregrine Drake gets countered, breaking up his combo. Odric attacks him with some Angels and brings his life total to 6. I decide that this is my opportunity to kill Oona with the Time Walk variants I've drawn over the course of the game. I cast Time Warp and Edric, attack with two 1/1 fliers. I attack again, cast Notorious Throng after attacking, killing the Oona player. I then have to try and figure out how to get past Rubinia and Odric's mass of flying creatures. Thankfully, Rubinia does it for me with the energy whale that returns all creatures to their owners' hands. Odric and I rebuild our boards while Rubinia creates a horde of myr tokens off a spell I can't remember. Odric casts Akroma, Angel of Wrath and Angel of Jubilation, and attacks me. I cast some fliers, then cast Mystical Tutor to find Biomass Mutation, and then cast Walk the Aeons and Edric, paying the buyback cost for the Walk. I draw into Druids' Repository, which is awesome since I can cast the Mutation after I declare attackers during his declare blockers step. I cast the Mutation of x=8 and kill the Rubinia player with my 3 fliers, brining him from 12 to 0. Odric plays his general and a couple of other creatures and spreads the combat abilities around and kills me. A fun game, and I think that the newer players enjoyed it as much as I did. Based on the points system, I had the most points so even though I died I still won the Pod.
All in all, a good game and it makes me want to tweak the deck slightly and add more unblockable creatures and remove the mana dorks. I drew them, but they felt mostly useless over the course of the game as they couldn't get through the blockers that people had.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
What about the Explore Dorks like Elvish Pioneer, Sakura-Tribe Scout, and Skyshroud Ranger? We have low land counts so they can't immediately give us value like a Llanowar Elves always can, but once we start drawing cards we always have extra lands to drop, and when we don't they are still creatures to attack with (assuming someone is open). Are they still good or have people moved away from them?
UBRThraximundar, Tribal ZombiesUBR
WURZedruu's Great TradesWUR
Edric pretty much relies on having weenies to swing in with, either with Overrun-like effects or by chaining turns, so mana dorks eventually become potential damage dealers as well, where spell based ramp only provides mana sources. Running low costed creature based ramp is just more favorable in this kind of deck.
Winter Orb will limit what Explore Dorks can do, since you are limited on what you can untap. Though to be honest I felt Orb limited me a fair bit and without Reliquary Tower it made chaining turns a bit more challenging, so I dropped Orb from my list. Furthermore, these dorks do rely on you having a land in hand. Most Edric lists will run Exploration already and when you get multiple effects like this it just does less. Sure, being able to churn out lands has a great upside, but regular mana dorks are just a tad bit more consistent in what they do.
The Ranger is probably not too bad, but Pioneer only has an ETB trigger and thus you can end up playing him without getting anything out of it, making it somewhat worse than a mana dork if you can't bounce him. Sakura-Tribe Scout just has less relevant subtypes, not being an elf or rogue is something to take in account as well.
I actually put him above Arbor Elf in my deck (the three Llanowar Elves and Dryad Arbor/Green Sun's Zenith come first) - my basic land count is heavily weighted towards islands (most of the evasive 1 drops are blue, as are the counterspells), relying on non-basics for much of my green mana and I'm not lucky enough to have a Tropical Island, so I often find that Arbor Elf doesn't have anything to untap, particularly early game - I'd say the odds of a T2 Edric are better with an Elvish Pioneer and said Pioneer can swing that turn.
The entire deck is about starts like that.
If I cast Llanowar Elves, I would be playing 3 creatures on turn 2 in order to swing and draw 4 cards on turn 3. The Pioneer is great
Unless you very reliably have hexproof guys, One With Nature will cause you to get 2-for-1'd. I'd go with Sword of the Animist instead. Which, since it only has to attack and doesn't need to hit, also gives you the desperation play for ramping: equip, swing, search, lose dude in combat, rinse, and repeat.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
I'd be perfectly fine with getting only 1 land out of One with Nature if it means somebody wasted spot removal on a very replaceable creature instead of Edric. The deck seems to draw so many cards that an occasional 2-for-1 doesn't really set it back that much if things are even going partially to plan. And it is definitely a desperation play if you're attacking with non-evasive creatures and losing the attacker instead of connecting and drawing a card, just to ramp. In that circumstance, ramping doesn't seem like the solution to the problem.
old thread
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Winter Orb - is the go to card for locking down the mana. Edric runs super cheap and efficient counters, even under the orb, the elves plus a land can effective neutralize a threat.
One with nature > Sword of Animist. merely because it cost too much for the effect... if the meta is slow, maybe .
Boduka gardener < Sakura tribe scout and Skyshroud ranger and exploration.. while this effect is good, the deck can function without them also. running the cheapest casting cost and 3 copies of such ability seems right.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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