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SonofaBith - Wizards was so excited about making the packaging for Modern Masters 2 recyclable, they decided to make most of the rares and all but 1 of the UC's recycle-bin ready too. Convenient!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Having another Cradle-like land makes it easier to build Edric in other ways. I know some players don't build Edric simply because playing all weenies is boring, so this allows for a mid-range Edric strategy to have a higher power level.
For an all-out Edric deck, it's tough to play because of the tempo loss. You use Cradle to ramp out a second wave of creatures or cast the first Time Walk. Probably don't need access to another one.
I run lots of splashy spells in my Edric deck and it's chock full of weenies. I use the big mana to cast cards like Biomass Mutation in order to kill off a large table. Having access to another Gaea's Cradle is great for when it gets hated on; it's a great backup. By the end of turn 4 Growing Rites of Itlimoc easily transforms into Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
seems slow tbh. 3 CMC is the top of the curve in most cases --- therefore, in the early game, you're tapping out instead of pressing the board or providing protection/counters. Plus, you have to wait a turn in order to benefit from Gaea's Cradle type mana (flips EoT).
From another post about this card:
No, I don't think Growing Ritea makes sense [in a lot of decks] for the following reasons: 1) the commander is better CA than this card, 2) casting often means spending a turn essentially doing nothing, and 3) the enchantment will never flip.
If you ever cast this and don't immediately flip it then you've just time walked yourself, and I imagine that to be the standard with thiscard in this deck
I was thinking it would be to slow in edric but wanted to see what the consensus was. Seems like it would be really good in a more good stuff list for edric but in the weenies list the first part of it isn't useful. I am going to try one out in rhys though seems like it would be a house in that.
Private Mod Note
():
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SonofaBith - Wizards was so excited about making the packaging for Modern Masters 2 recyclable, they decided to make most of the rares and all but 1 of the UC's recycle-bin ready too. Convenient!
seems slow tbh. 3 CMC is the top of the curve in most cases --- therefore, in the early game, you're tapping out instead of pressing the board or providing protection/counters. Plus, you have to wait a turn in order to benefit from Gaea's Cradle type mana (flips EoT).
From another post about this card:
No, I don't think Growing Ritea makes sense [in a lot of decks] for the following reasons: 1) the commander is better CA than this card, 2) casting often means spending a turn essentially doing nothing, and 3) the enchantment will never flip.
If you ever cast this and don't immediately flip it then you've just time walked yourself, and I imagine that to be the standard with thiscard in this deck
I was thinking it would be to slow in edric but wanted to see what the consensus was. Seems like it would be really good in a more good stuff list for edric but in the weenies list the first part of it isn't useful. I am going to try one out in rhys though seems like it would be a house in that.
Competitively speaking, it's too slow. It's great when you're ahead, but if you're ahead then you don't need it. When you're behind (or in regular time, but who does that) it can be a time walk as little use comes of it with its EtB.
75% builds? Probably great.
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Proud owner of the EDH 'Infinite Combos and Strong Synergies' thread
Please put the colors of your suggestion in mana symbols prior to your suggestion in color-wheel order. To do this, put any of W, U, B, R, G, and/or C, whatever is applicable, with the word 'mana' inside [square bracets] before and the word '/mana' inside [square bracets] after the mana.
I hope the consensus on people's thoughts for this card is generally poor. That way, it'll be cheap and I can grab as many as I can. This is definitely a poorman's Gaea's Cradle and I will pounce on this. Enchantments aren't easy to get rid of and neither are lands.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
@Demented Kirby
I think that the new Itilimoc card is actually really good in any creature based deck, especially one like this. I will be giving it a try myself.
I may have missed the discussion, but what is the consensus on Throne of the God-Pharaoh? I think it's great in this deck, since it reduces the clock individually against each opponent and requires a smaller number of creatures for Craterhoof Behemoth and Beastmaster Ascension to be lethal. It's cheap CMC and $$ wise and it seems a viable way to kill people, especially with the Time Walk version of this deck.
@Demented Kirby
I think that the new Itilimoc card is actually really good in any creature based deck, especially one like this. I will be giving it a try myself.
It has been a very slow card as I hadmany many many things to do at 3-5 mana instead. Most times, it was a dead card in hand because after getting 1-2 creatures down before Edric, I'll hold counter magic up until 5-6 mana so I can chain extra turns. And at that point, I am ditching 3+ cards at EoT even when I am emptying my hand on the board.
@ajprokos
I've observed a similar thing. This deck is the most mana hungry deck I've seen in a long time, but it's hungry for U. Sadly, Itlimoc is a secondary Gaea's Cradle which this deck doesn't especially need. If there was a blue Cradle...
I've been thinking about assembling this deck. It's super fast and much more competitive than I thought it was. It's also cheap to build in terms of $$, so I'll probably be adding it to my gauntlet in a little bit.
As a last question, I've seen a number of Edric decks run Opposition. I think that it is also a great inclusion, simply because of how fast this deck can flood the board and effectively use opposition. But, it's expensive in the CMC range and doesn't directly contribute to the primary win condition of making weenie dorks massive threats.
Currently looking at putting an Edric deck like this together as well. Looks like a nice way to add a more aggro styled deck to my line up while being able to build fairly decently on a budget. So will be digging through this thread for inspiration for sure, while working on a list of my own.
@ajprokos
I've observed a similar thing. This deck is the most mana hungry deck I've seen in a long time, but it's hungry for U. Sadly, Itlimoc is a secondary Gaea's Cradle which this deck doesn't especially need. If there was a blue Cradle...
I've been thinking about assembling this deck. It's super fast and much more competitive than I thought it was. It's also cheap to build in terms of $$, so I'll probably be adding it to my gauntlet in a little bit.
As a last question, I've seen a number of Edric decks run Opposition. I think that it is also a great inclusion, simply because of how fast this deck can flood the board and effectively use opposition. But, it's expensive in the CMC range and doesn't directly contribute to the primary win condition of making weenie dorks massive threats.
This deck is a nice change of pace and makes you think a lot more. Every decision counts. Do you play out your hand or play 2 of the 5 creatures and hold up counterspells? Do I tap out to play Edric, or wait until I have protection ready?
Opposition doesn't really help....your creatures already have evasion or they are utility creatures like Sylvan Safekeeper.
What is the consensus on Bident of Thassa? Do we need an extra Edric effect? Or is it too clunky?
I run coastal piracy because it is only an enchantment. Doesn't hurt to try it. Helps recover but if you are already on a roll with Edric, it's usually a dead card. And what I mean on a roll is 2-3 turns in a row.
Currently looking at putting an Edric deck like this together as well. Looks like a nice way to add a more aggro styled deck to my line up while being able to build fairly decently on a budget. So will be digging through this thread for inspiration for sure, while working on a list of my own.
It can be budget and $$$. It is very fun having 5 1 creatures on the board and laughing with everyone. Heck, with 5 creatures, I have instantly killed someone via Triumph of the Hordes.
I also have 5 extra turn cards and boy does it feel good to chain them and draw cards after cards after cards.
@ajprokos
Glad for the feedback on Opposition. It looks good on paper but I've not tested it out in real life. This deck is really quite cheap to build if you drop the heavy dollar cards (ie Mana Drain, Mox Diamond, Mana Crypt, and Capture of Jingzhou). I'll start picking up the pieces slowly but surely.
I think that streamlining the land package to be more basic heavy and include Back to Basics seems really tempting, as that will essentially give additional turns to you, in a more roundabout manner.
@ajprokos
Glad for the feedback on Opposition. It looks good on paper but I've not tested it out in real life. This deck is really quite cheap to build if you drop the heavy dollar cards (ie Mana Drain, Mox Diamond, Mana Crypt, and Capture of Jingzhou). I'll start picking up the pieces slowly but surely.
I think that streamlining the land package to be more basic heavy and include Back to Basics seems really tempting, as that will essentially give additional turns to you, in a more roundabout manner.
I think you'd get more mileage and disruption out of Opposition as a Rishadan Port rather than by tapping down blockers because you select most of your weenies based off of their evasion anyways. After al, most of the U are played. Opposition could easily lock someone out of play 4cc++ sorceries.
However, if you're running maximum time magic, it's probably a stronger line to just attempt all out attacks and try to snowball into cards and time magic.
So been spending a bunch of time to work out a draft for having my go at Edric. It's a more budget build so the mana base is still quite basic, I'm not running that many extra turn spells and obviously I had to make some substitutes due to budget limitations. The mana base will likely be the first thing to be upgraded next though it will be unlikely for me to be adding fetches to the deck. So might consider Back to Basics as well down the road. For now though its about acquiring a bunch of these cards and starting to familiarize myself more with the deck's strategy.
I'm always open to suggestions and tweaks to my list, just keep in mind that I'm currently relying on a budgeted build.
Edit: Went to my LGS to see if I could pick up a few cards for the deck and they had a Chrome Mox and Back to Basics there, so ended up getting those as well. Wasn't really planned or budgeted, so will have to do some extra trading this weekend to make up for it.
Been meaning to comment in this thread for quite a while now - it was a huge help when putting together my Edric deck. I do find the deck can get rather samey when playing against people who aren't capable of interacting with it, but it's great fun when actively having to fight through opponents properly trying to stop you. And I don't think I'll ever get tired of turning my nice foil Flying Men into an ungodly card advantage engine - no matter how good the "Edric creatures" get, that guy is always going to stay in there. He's the iconic evasive 1 drop, and the foil actually looks really good.
Given that there are already more evasive 1 drops than you can fit into a list and people aren't going to be burning removal on a 1/1, why waste the extra mana on an Invisible Stalker? It's not awful but even weaker 1 drops like Cloud Pirates are much better.
Been meaning to comment in this thread for quite a while now - it was a huge help when putting together my Edric deck. I do find the deck can get rather samey when playing against people who aren't capable of interacting with it, but it's great fun when actively having to fight through opponents properly trying to stop you. And I don't think I'll ever get tired of turning my nice foil Flying Men into an ungodly card advantage engine - no matter how good the "Edric creatures" get, that guy is always going to stay in there. He's the iconic evasive 1 drop, and the foil actually looks really good.
Given that there are already more evasive 1 drops than you can fit into a list and people aren't going to be burning removal on a 1/1, why waste the extra mana on an Invisible Stalker? It's not awful but even weaker 1 drops like Cloud Pirates are much better.
Spot removal is a thing plus other colors do have cheap fliers. Has anyone thought about Dowsing Dagger ?
Been meaning to comment in this thread for quite a while now - it was a huge help when putting together my Edric deck. I do find the deck can get rather samey when playing against people who aren't capable of interacting with it, but it's great fun when actively having to fight through opponents properly trying to stop you. And I don't think I'll ever get tired of turning my nice foil Flying Men into an ungodly card advantage engine - no matter how good the "Edric creatures" get, that guy is always going to stay in there. He's the iconic evasive 1 drop, and the foil actually looks really good.
Given that there are already more evasive 1 drops than you can fit into a list and people aren't going to be burning removal on a 1/1, why waste the extra mana on an Invisible Stalker? It's not awful but even weaker 1 drops like Cloud Pirates are much better.
Spot removal is a thing plus other colors do have cheap fliers. Has anyone thought about Dowsing Dagger ?
The point is nobody is going to waste spot removal on an evasive 1/1 with no abilities. Let them waste it on one of them if that's what they want to do, then laugh at them quietly in your head. They're really going to try to wipe or point spot removal at Edric.
Regarding Dowsing Dagger — nobody's running Gilded Lotus here, which doesn't need to be "turned on" via connecting with combat damage and costs just as much mana: 5 for Gilded vs 4(G/U) for getting Vale (2 to cast and 2 equip to a minimum U or G creature). It's better to spend that mana on an extra turn or hold it up for protection/countermagic. The least problem (and why nobody runs Gilded here) is that most cards in the list have CMC 2 or less and it'd be easier to not use all 3 mana from Lotus/Vale.
I've been running with a 4c brew version of this list at my LGS and a few GPs with Tymna the Weaver and Thrasios, Triton Hero at the helm. You have a weaker draw engine from Tymna, but you gain access to much better tutors, removal, protection, and utility creatures, as well as more playable rogues for Notorious Throng. On top of that, you get access to white hate cards like Rest in Peace, Stony Silence, Suppression Field, and Aura Shards. Black gives you sweet cards like Beckon Apparition, Bitterblossom, Abzan Ascendancy. Granted, the curve is slightly higher with more 2 and 3 cmc creatures, but their average power-level makes up for drawing less cards overall. I found that drawing 5-10 cards with edric is only ok when 3-4 of them are just more 1/1s, but drawing powerful hate cards and removal makes much more of an immediate impact on the game. Also, you get some sweet bomb cards like Linvala Keeper of Silence and Notion Thief. Too bad they banned Leovold, Emissary of Trest.
Some down-sides to the 4c version:
1. Less consistent mana (Blood Moon/Back to Basics)
2. Less raw card advantage, more reliance on Bident of Thassa/Coastal Piracy/drawing Edric, Spymaster of Trest
3. Don't get to show off your sweet, sweet Alpha Shanodin Dryads
4. Less space for counterspells, because you run more removal and hate cards like Gaddock Teeg and Torpor Orb.
5. Slightly higher average cmc, because some sweet cards cost 2-3 mana.
6. Only room for 4 Time Warps, but there are more and better tutors to find them.
7. Slightly slower kill speed, as in you don't get to start really get your first extra turn until t5.
If someone here is interested I can post my list here. Maybe I should just create a new thread for this...
Oh, I know about Wasitora and all that lore from back in the day. It doesn't make it any less random though .
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Oo what do you guys think of these?
GW Rhys the Redeemed EDH
RUGAnimar, Soul of Elements EDH
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death EDH
100% going into my build of the deck.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Having another Cradle-like land makes it easier to build Edric in other ways. I know some players don't build Edric simply because playing all weenies is boring, so this allows for a mid-range Edric strategy to have a higher power level.
For an all-out Edric deck, it's tough to play because of the tempo loss. You use Cradle to ramp out a second wave of creatures or cast the first Time Walk. Probably don't need access to another one.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
seems slow tbh. 3 CMC is the top of the curve in most cases --- therefore, in the early game, you're tapping out instead of pressing the board or providing protection/counters. Plus, you have to wait a turn in order to benefit from Gaea's Cradle type mana (flips EoT).
From another post about this card:
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
GW Rhys the Redeemed EDH
RUGAnimar, Soul of Elements EDH
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death EDH
Competitively speaking, it's too slow. It's great when you're ahead, but if you're ahead then you don't need it. When you're behind (or in regular time, but who does that) it can be a time walk as little use comes of it with its EtB.
75% builds? Probably great.
Please put the colors of your suggestion in mana symbols prior to your suggestion in color-wheel order. To do this, put any of W, U, B, R, G, and/or C, whatever is applicable, with the word 'mana' inside [square bracets] before and the word '/mana' inside [square bracets] after the mana.
Freezing Point EDH series #1 (click through the other articles too!)
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I think that the new Itilimoc card is actually really good in any creature based deck, especially one like this. I will be giving it a try myself.
I may have missed the discussion, but what is the consensus on Throne of the God-Pharaoh? I think it's great in this deck, since it reduces the clock individually against each opponent and requires a smaller number of creatures for Craterhoof Behemoth and Beastmaster Ascension to be lethal. It's cheap CMC and $$ wise and it seems a viable way to kill people, especially with the Time Walk version of this deck.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
It has been a very slow card as I hadmany many many things to do at 3-5 mana instead. Most times, it was a dead card in hand because after getting 1-2 creatures down before Edric, I'll hold counter magic up until 5-6 mana so I can chain extra turns. And at that point, I am ditching 3+ cards at EoT even when I am emptying my hand on the board.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
I've observed a similar thing. This deck is the most mana hungry deck I've seen in a long time, but it's hungry for U. Sadly, Itlimoc is a secondary Gaea's Cradle which this deck doesn't especially need. If there was a blue Cradle...
I've been thinking about assembling this deck. It's super fast and much more competitive than I thought it was. It's also cheap to build in terms of $$, so I'll probably be adding it to my gauntlet in a little bit.
As a last question, I've seen a number of Edric decks run Opposition. I think that it is also a great inclusion, simply because of how fast this deck can flood the board and effectively use opposition. But, it's expensive in the CMC range and doesn't directly contribute to the primary win condition of making weenie dorks massive threats.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
This deck is a nice change of pace and makes you think a lot more. Every decision counts. Do you play out your hand or play 2 of the 5 creatures and hold up counterspells? Do I tap out to play Edric, or wait until I have protection ready?
Opposition doesn't really help....your creatures already have evasion or they are utility creatures like Sylvan Safekeeper.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
I run coastal piracy because it is only an enchantment. Doesn't hurt to try it. Helps recover but if you are already on a roll with Edric, it's usually a dead card. And what I mean on a roll is 2-3 turns in a row.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
It can be budget and $$$. It is very fun having 5 1 creatures on the board and laughing with everyone. Heck, with 5 creatures, I have instantly killed someone via Triumph of the Hordes.
I also have 5 extra turn cards and boy does it feel good to chain them and draw cards after cards after cards.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Glad for the feedback on Opposition. It looks good on paper but I've not tested it out in real life. This deck is really quite cheap to build if you drop the heavy dollar cards (ie Mana Drain, Mox Diamond, Mana Crypt, and Capture of Jingzhou). I'll start picking up the pieces slowly but surely.
I think that streamlining the land package to be more basic heavy and include Back to Basics seems really tempting, as that will essentially give additional turns to you, in a more roundabout manner.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I think you'd get more mileage and disruption out of Opposition as a Rishadan Port rather than by tapping down blockers because you select most of your weenies based off of their evasion anyways. After al, most of the U are played. Opposition could easily lock someone out of play 4cc++ sorceries.
However, if you're running maximum time magic, it's probably a stronger line to just attempt all out attacks and try to snowball into cards and time magic.
Back to Basics is brutal. I say run it because Winter Orb is a solid strategy. I play Muddle the Mixture, so I can transmute into my package of Winter Orb, Null Rod, or Cursed Totem.
Here's what I plan on running:
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Creatures [31]
1 Arbor Elf
1 Boreal Druid
1 Caustic Caterpillar
1 Cloud of Faeries
1 Cloud Pirates
1 Cloud Sprite
1 Copperhorn Scout
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Faerie Miscreant
1 Flying Men
1 Gudul Lurker
1 Hope of Ghirapur
1 Hypnotic Siren
1 Jace's Phantasm
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Mausoleum Wanderer
1 Merfolk Spy
1 Mothdust Changeling
1 Orochi Leafcaller
1 Priest of Titania
1 Scryb Sprites
1 Signal Pest
1 Siren Stormtamer
1 Slither Blade
1 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Treetop Scout
1 Triton Shorestalker
1 Wingcrafter
1 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Zephyr Sprite
1 Abjure
1 Arcane Denial
1 Autumn's Veil
1 Beast Within
1 Biomass Mutation
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Counterspell
1 Daze
1 Delay
1 Essence Scatter
1 Familiar's Ruse
1 Mana Leak
1 Mental Misstep
1 Nature's Claim
1 Negate
1 Reclaim
1 Spell Pierce
1 Twincast
1 Unified Will
1 Unsubstantiate
Sorceries [5]
1 Curse of the Swine
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Notorious Throng
1 Temporal Trespass
1 Triumph of the Hordes
1 Back to Basics
1 Beastmaster Ascension
1 Burgeoning
1 Druids' Repository
1 Teferi's Veil
Artifact [4]
1 Chrome Mox
1 Simic Signet
1 Tangle Wire
1 Winter Orb
Lands [34]
16 Island
13 Forest
1 Breeding Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Grove
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Yavimaya Coast
Maybeboard
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Martyr of Frost
1 Spiketail Hatchling
1 Foil
Edit: Went to my LGS to see if I could pick up a few cards for the deck and they had a Chrome Mox and Back to Basics there, so ended up getting those as well. Wasn't really planned or budgeted, so will have to do some extra trading this weekend to make up for it.
Anyway...
Given that there are already more evasive 1 drops than you can fit into a list and people aren't going to be burning removal on a 1/1, why waste the extra mana on an Invisible Stalker? It's not awful but even weaker 1 drops like Cloud Pirates are much better.
Spot removal is a thing plus other colors do have cheap fliers. Has anyone thought about Dowsing Dagger ?
Regarding Dowsing Dagger — nobody's running Gilded Lotus here, which doesn't need to be "turned on" via connecting with combat damage and costs just as much mana: 5 for Gilded vs 4(G/U) for getting Vale (2 to cast and 2 equip to a minimum U or G creature). It's better to spend that mana on an extra turn or hold it up for protection/countermagic. The least problem (and why nobody runs Gilded here) is that most cards in the list have CMC 2 or less and it'd be easier to not use all 3 mana from Lotus/Vale.
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
I think one of the huge advantages is that you don't have to rely on flying to ensure your creatures get to connect. Fear, shadow, or unblockable are much more reliable. You also get Deathrite Shaman, Judge's Familiar, Serra Ascendant, Topplegeist (lets tymna or other guys attack more freely), Beckon Apparition, and Vault Skirge as superior 1-drops to normal Flying Men guys. Having a late-game mana sink in Thrasios, Triton hero if you get wrathed a few too many times can come in handy.
Some down-sides to the 4c version:
1. Less consistent mana (Blood Moon/Back to Basics)
2. Less raw card advantage, more reliance on Bident of Thassa/Coastal Piracy/drawing Edric, Spymaster of Trest
3. Don't get to show off your sweet, sweet Alpha Shanodin Dryads
4. Less space for counterspells, because you run more removal and hate cards like Gaddock Teeg and Torpor Orb.
5. Slightly higher average cmc, because some sweet cards cost 2-3 mana.
6. Only room for 4 Time Warps, but there are more and better tutors to find them.
7. Slightly slower kill speed, as in you don't get to start really get your first extra turn until t5.
If someone here is interested I can post my list here. Maybe I should just create a new thread for this...