Minor question, I am not a huge fan of adding more non-island duals as it makes it harder to Walk the Aeons with buyback when you need it.
Is this a concern at all?
Not really but I think Elvish Pioneer needs to be cut at this point. I hadn't realized how basic light I was getting. It's better to have mana fixing than be able to turn Walk the Aeons on more consistently. Blood Moon and Back to Basics are rarely seen in my games so they don't bother me much. Given infinite playable duals I don't think I'd play more than a few basics.
So I've been meaning to talk to you about this donald. I keep trying your list with minor adjustments for meta concerns, like how winter orb helps my opponents more than it does me etc. I keep whiffing on lands
Like all the time. I'm not sure if i'm getting unlucky. but I've dropped games because I drew lands when I needed gas/interaction. I'm seriously considering going down off 35 lands.
Here's a build that's better suited for a more competitive meta (according to the author). What are your thoughts on it?
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So I've been meaning to talk to you about this donald. I keep trying your list with minor adjustments for meta concerns, like how winter orb helps my opponents more than it does me etc. I keep whiffing on lands
Like all the time. I'm not sure if i'm getting unlucky. but I've dropped games because I drew lands when I needed gas/interaction. I'm seriously considering going down off 35 lands.
I’ve got some swaps in mind that I need to test out, hoping to grind out some games this weekend. I’ll watch the land count but this isn’t something I recall having issues with. The main reason I have to mulligan is not having both colors of mana so I’ve gone with a higher land count to help mitigate this. That said the deck mulligans very well and I would certainly like more room to add in some removal.
Quote from Magnivore »
Here's a build that's better suited for a more competitive meta (according to the author). What are your thoughts on it?
My general philosophy is the more competitive the meta the faster I want my deck and the less interactive I want it to be. It may be the case that this build is better suited for a particular meta but I really question some of these choices. There are a non zero number of ETB tapped lands which seems problematic, especially ones that are providing very little value such as Temple of Mystery. Most of these I covered earlier but I really have to question things like Shardless Agent and Reliquary Tower. The Tower in particular I feel only has a place in very specific decks. If you have 10 cards in hand and lose because you discarded down to 7 cards that’s probably not due to a lack of a Spellbook effect.
It's actually the reverse for me. The more competitive the more interaction I'm forced to have to not die to w/e dumb I'm facing down. We're not exactly pushing the limits of fast, and we're by large a fairish deck. I'd rather have answers to all the back breaking things other decks are using.
Also I largely agree, most of my mulls were not having early edric access and both colors.
I played some games and made notes. My list was the same except I played Temporal Trespass over Cloud Pirates since they're not available on MTGO.
Game 1 - Loss
This was pretty ugly. My opening hand is 4 land, no ramp 1 creature so I mull. I get a hand with 2 lands, no ramp and a couple guys. It's slow but fine if I draw a land. About 5 turns in I still don't have another land and draw Elvish Mystic and play it. Next turn cast Edric and draw 2 cards since one of my guys gets Maze of Ith'd. Next guy untaps and cast Wrath of God. I topdeck FoW. My third land was 18 cards deep and the 5 color deck kills us with planeswalkers.
Game 2 - Win
Mull a 1 lander. Keep Cradle, fetch, 3 dorks, Delay and Mental Misstep. There is another player also playing Edric. I start dropping dorks hoping the other Edric player will drop him turn 3. He has different plans however and plays Anvil of Bogardan turn 2 followed by Hunted Phantasm turn 3 giving me the tokens. I easily chain warps into a win. No idea why he gave me the tokens, probably just trolling.
Game 3 - Win
Hoping to get a decent game in my opening hand is 1 land, Dryad Arbor, and I'm also holding Green Sun's Zenith. Mull to a 2 lander with dorks. Didn't keep good notes on this one, apparently I cast Notorious Throng turn 4. Turn 5 I didn't get an extra turn card but I have a lot of counters. Turn 6 chain Time Warps to win.
I have turn 1 Llanowar Elves but decide to go for a turn 2 Eladamri, Lord of Leaves and turn 3 Edric with Flusterstorm backup. Turn 4 I cast a Time Warp. Turn 5 Gaea's Cradle lets me get more creatures in play and I cast another Time Warp. Turn 6 I don't get another Time Warp but drop Winter Orb + Tangle Wire off the Cradle and pass with a ton of counters. Win shortly after that.
Game 6 - ?
I get turn 2 Edric. My turn 3 would likely have been dropping 4 more creatures hopefully setting up for a turn 4 win but one of the other guys DC and doesn't come back. Another guy decides he wants to start a new game so we both scoop. Not sure if I would have one this or not so it's a shame I couldn't play it out.
Game 7 - Win
Finally some fast mana with a turn 1 Chrome Mox but I have to imprint my Mana Drain. Both my creatures are green but I have the Flooded Grove so I drop a couple pseudo fliers and a turn 2 Edric. Turn 3 I play 2 more creatures and hold mana up for Counterspell which I think gets used on Azami's Gilded Lotus. My only Time Warp so far is Temporal Trespass and it's too much mana but I draw into Gaea's Cradle off Edric triggers and am able to cast it turn 4. Turn 5 I chain Time Warps for the win.
While my loss was a result of not drawing a 3rd land I might not have won that game anyways and I did see more 4 land openers than I'd have liked. Small sample size but I wouldn't argue against cutting a land or 2.
@Jim: I feel that on MTGO against randoms I have a higher win % playing very answer heavy decks but these decks are not particularly great when there are other good decks at the table because they're so slow and my opponents spells are very powerful. Aggressive glass cannon decks seem to get me wins more often in those situations. I guess it also depends on how you look at things. In this deck I feel the primary function of the counterspells are to protect your board. They just happen to be good at interacting with opponent's win conditions. The deck can play a more controlling game but that's not something I have to do very often. In that light I feel like every single card in this deck is either helping the deck win (dorks, mana, Time Warps) or preventing opponents from stopping us (counterspells, Worb/Tangle Wire). Even Chain of Vapor can be used to protect Edric and your other creatures as well as generate mana with mana rocks. When I think of interaction spells it's more along the lines of straight removal like Nature's Claim. The reason I would play that card isn't to win or protect my win but to stop my opponents from winning.
Depending on your meta though, those interactive spells do help you win.
For example, lots of annoying enchantments just stop Eric.dec cold in non-super competitive environments.
Propaganda and Ghostly Prison being the main offenders but I would prefer not to add in cards specifically to deal with things like this unless I absolutely have to.
Depending on your meta though, those interactive spells do help you win.
For example, lots of annoying enchantments just stop Eric.dec cold in non-super competitive environments.
Propaganda and Ghostly Prison being the main offenders but I would prefer not to add in cards specifically to deal with things like this unless I absolutely have to.
Caustic Caterpillar and Reclamation Sage are good ways to get those kinds of things off the field. They can both be used just from Gaea's Cradle which is a boost. Trygon Predator is okay too but it will cost you the first time you want to use it through a toll booth.
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What are your thoughts on Vine Dryad? I loved this lady in my Ezuri deck, but i have been giving her a go in Edric lately. Flashing her in a tapped board and she already replaces the card you exiled on the first hit. Having a big(er) butt then the rest of the creatures often proved quite useful.
And what about lotus cobra? Is Bloom tender not the better card here since she's an elf and the both usually make 2 mana?
I'm pimping this deck(minus the cradle) and man, do i wish that Shanodin Dryad had the 5th edition or Alpha art back in 7th..
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
What are your thoughts on Vine Dryad? I loved this lady in my Ezuri deck, but i have been giving her a go in Edric lately. Flashing her in a tapped board and she already replaces the card you exiled on the first hit. Having a big(er) butt then the rest of the creatures often proved quite useful.
And what about lotus cobra? Is Bloom tender not the better card here since she's an elf and the both usually make 2 mana?
I'm pimping this deck(minus the cradle) and man, do i wish that Shanodin Dryad had the 5th edition or Alpha art back in 7th..
I tried Vine Dryad a long time ago, definitely not a bad option. Getting 2 for one'd doesn't hurt that bad and it's a free landwalker. I did end up cutting it but I should bring it in again since I've adjusted the deck a bit since I last tried it.
If you have a fetch Lotus Cobra is basically free to cast which I feel makes an important difference plus Cobra can beat down while making mana. Without all the fetches he's probably not good enough. Bloom Tender over Priest of Titania might be worth a shot.
I've got a foil 7th Shanodin Dryads and I don't think it's THAT terrible. I prefer it over 5th art but agree Alpha is the best and would probably look sweet in foil. Gaea's Cradle foil I regret not picking up...crazy expensive now.
What are your thoughts on Vine Dryad? I loved this lady in my Ezuri deck, but i have been giving her a go in Edric lately. Flashing her in a tapped board and she already replaces the card you exiled on the first hit. Having a big(er) butt then the rest of the creatures often proved quite useful.
And what about lotus cobra? Is Bloom tender not the better card here since she's an elf and the both usually make 2 mana?
I'm pimping this deck(minus the cradle) and man, do i wish that Shanodin Dryad had the 5th edition or Alpha art back in 7th..
I tried Vine Dryad a long time ago, definitely not a bad option. Getting 2 for one'd doesn't hurt that bad and it's a free landwalker. I did end up cutting it but I should bring it in again since I've adjusted the deck a bit since I last tried it.
If you have a fetch Lotus Cobra is basically free to cast which I feel makes an important difference plus Cobra can beat down while making mana. Without all the fetches he's probably not good enough. Bloom Tender over Priest of Titania might be worth a shot.
I've got a foil 7th Shanodin Dryads and I don't think it's THAT terrible. I prefer it over 5th art but agree Alpha is the best and would probably look sweet in foil. Gaea's Cradle foil I regret not picking up...crazy expensive now.
Hmm, a Cobra followed by a fetch does kind of net je a free snake. And it's a better hitter then the bloom tender without Warcaller/Eladamri. I'll give it a shot!
I always liked the Alpha/5th Dryads. Maybe i'll pick up a german FBB one. That would go great with the other german FBB cards.
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
The Cobra has been serving me quite well the past few days.
Does anyone have experience with carpet of flowers? Sure, you need a blue heavy meta for it to work, but it can power out Edric fast and keep doing so even if Edric has bitten the dust a few times.
On a sad note. My playgroup does not like all the extra turn effects... I'm looking for a few replacements. I already run Beastmaster Ascension, Biomass Mutation and Joraga Warcaller. The warcaller has been hit or miss. It's very flexible, but it would be infinitely better if i own a Cradle :/
I like Triumph the best out of those, it's actually pretty effective. If you have Natural Order with Craterhoof Behemoth that's another option and will almost certainly be lethal. Maybe even try out Garruk Wildspeaker?
I've played Carpet of Flowers a lot in other decks but not being able to attack is a bummer. Still worth a shot, depends on the playgroup.
Does anyone have experience with carpet of flowers? Sure, you need a blue heavy meta for it to work, but it can power out Edric fast and keep doing so even if Edric has bitten the dust a few times.
It doesn't even need to be a blue heavy meta. One island in play gets you one mana ramp at the cost of one mana for one card. I mean, it's not a good drop on turn 2 if you want Edric out then, but turn 1 and 3-whatever it's great. Plus you can often use the mana the turn you play it.
I run it in Edric and my Sigarda enchantress deck, and I literally can't think of a single time I've drawn it and been disappointed.
Yes, i know Pygmy Hippo isn't worth it. But i love him dammit. He even helps me ones or twice in forcing my kill cards through. So. i'm looking for tips and something to replace walk the eons with. Maybe sneak in that Stampede Driver i want to toy around with.
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Please put the colors of your suggestion in mana symbols prior to your suggestion in color-wheel order. To do this, put any of W, U, B, R, G, and/or C, whatever is applicable, with the word 'mana' inside [square bracets] before and the word '/mana' inside [square bracets] after the mana.
What about Heroic Intervention? Very useful against those wraths and boardwipes. It's an easy to cast, color-identity Boros Charm for your creatures. I'm gonna probably add it to the deck.
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That is hideous. Like he's not oppressive enough already slotting in cards like Winter Orb and Tangle Wire. It's not Erayo level evil, but if you hit the right person with it, it can be. And it's colorless. Why?
Yeah, Heroic Intervention is a replacement for Wrap in Vigor at least. It doesn't protect against other things like Cyclonic Rift so in my mind it's either a two-mana single-target protection spell (like Autumn's Veil but for one target) or a better Wrap.
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Is this a concern at all?
Like all the time. I'm not sure if i'm getting unlucky. but I've dropped games because I drew lands when I needed gas/interaction. I'm seriously considering going down off 35 lands.
Please put the colors of your suggestion in mana symbols prior to your suggestion in color-wheel order. To do this, put any of W, U, B, R, G, and/or C, whatever is applicable, with the word 'mana' inside [square bracets] before and the word '/mana' inside [square bracets] after the mana.
Freezing Point EDH series #1 (click through the other articles too!)
My general philosophy is the more competitive the meta the faster I want my deck and the less interactive I want it to be. It may be the case that this build is better suited for a particular meta but I really question some of these choices. There are a non zero number of ETB tapped lands which seems problematic, especially ones that are providing very little value such as Temple of Mystery. Most of these I covered earlier but I really have to question things like Shardless Agent and Reliquary Tower. The Tower in particular I feel only has a place in very specific decks. If you have 10 cards in hand and lose because you discarded down to 7 cards that’s probably not due to a lack of a Spellbook effect.
Also I largely agree, most of my mulls were not having early edric access and both colors.
Game 1 - Loss
This was pretty ugly. My opening hand is 4 land, no ramp 1 creature so I mull. I get a hand with 2 lands, no ramp and a couple guys. It's slow but fine if I draw a land. About 5 turns in I still don't have another land and draw Elvish Mystic and play it. Next turn cast Edric and draw 2 cards since one of my guys gets Maze of Ith'd. Next guy untaps and cast Wrath of God. I topdeck FoW. My third land was 18 cards deep and the 5 color deck kills us with planeswalkers.
Game 2 - Win
Mull a 1 lander. Keep Cradle, fetch, 3 dorks, Delay and Mental Misstep. There is another player also playing Edric. I start dropping dorks hoping the other Edric player will drop him turn 3. He has different plans however and plays Anvil of Bogardan turn 2 followed by Hunted Phantasm turn 3 giving me the tokens. I easily chain warps into a win. No idea why he gave me the tokens, probably just trolling.
Game 3 - Win
Hoping to get a decent game in my opening hand is 1 land, Dryad Arbor, and I'm also holding Green Sun's Zenith. Mull to a 2 lander with dorks. Didn't keep good notes on this one, apparently I cast Notorious Throng turn 4. Turn 5 I didn't get an extra turn card but I have a lot of counters. Turn 6 chain Time Warps to win.
Game 4 - Win
Keep 4 land, Spiketail Hatchling, Gudul Lurker and Martyr of Frost. This one ended up being long and grindy with me dropping Winter Orb and having to play control to keep from dying. I take some massive damage from a Managorger Hydra, which I later bounced, dropping me to 5 life with a Mana Crypt in play. I lose the coin flip twice in a row but am saved by another player have Abyssal Persecutor. Eventually I find Beastmaster Ascension and win at -4 life.
Game 5 - Win
I have turn 1 Llanowar Elves but decide to go for a turn 2 Eladamri, Lord of Leaves and turn 3 Edric with Flusterstorm backup. Turn 4 I cast a Time Warp. Turn 5 Gaea's Cradle lets me get more creatures in play and I cast another Time Warp. Turn 6 I don't get another Time Warp but drop Winter Orb + Tangle Wire off the Cradle and pass with a ton of counters. Win shortly after that.
Game 6 - ?
I get turn 2 Edric. My turn 3 would likely have been dropping 4 more creatures hopefully setting up for a turn 4 win but one of the other guys DC and doesn't come back. Another guy decides he wants to start a new game so we both scoop. Not sure if I would have one this or not so it's a shame I couldn't play it out.
Game 7 - Win
Finally some fast mana with a turn 1 Chrome Mox but I have to imprint my Mana Drain. Both my creatures are green but I have the Flooded Grove so I drop a couple pseudo fliers and a turn 2 Edric. Turn 3 I play 2 more creatures and hold mana up for Counterspell which I think gets used on Azami's Gilded Lotus. My only Time Warp so far is Temporal Trespass and it's too much mana but I draw into Gaea's Cradle off Edric triggers and am able to cast it turn 4. Turn 5 I chain Time Warps for the win.
While my loss was a result of not drawing a 3rd land I might not have won that game anyways and I did see more 4 land openers than I'd have liked. Small sample size but I wouldn't argue against cutting a land or 2.
@Jim: I feel that on MTGO against randoms I have a higher win % playing very answer heavy decks but these decks are not particularly great when there are other good decks at the table because they're so slow and my opponents spells are very powerful. Aggressive glass cannon decks seem to get me wins more often in those situations. I guess it also depends on how you look at things. In this deck I feel the primary function of the counterspells are to protect your board. They just happen to be good at interacting with opponent's win conditions. The deck can play a more controlling game but that's not something I have to do very often. In that light I feel like every single card in this deck is either helping the deck win (dorks, mana, Time Warps) or preventing opponents from stopping us (counterspells, Worb/Tangle Wire). Even Chain of Vapor can be used to protect Edric and your other creatures as well as generate mana with mana rocks. When I think of interaction spells it's more along the lines of straight removal like Nature's Claim. The reason I would play that card isn't to win or protect my win but to stop my opponents from winning.
For example, lots of annoying enchantments just stop Edric.dec cold in non-super competitive environments (e.g. Aether Flash, Propaganda, etc.)
Caustic Caterpillar and Reclamation Sage are good ways to get those kinds of things off the field. They can both be used just from Gaea's Cradle which is a boost. Trygon Predator is okay too but it will cost you the first time you want to use it through a toll booth.
Please put the colors of your suggestion in mana symbols prior to your suggestion in color-wheel order. To do this, put any of W, U, B, R, G, and/or C, whatever is applicable, with the word 'mana' inside [square bracets] before and the word '/mana' inside [square bracets] after the mana.
Freezing Point EDH series #1 (click through the other articles too!)
And what about lotus cobra? Is Bloom tender not the better card here since she's an elf and the both usually make 2 mana?
I'm pimping this deck(minus the cradle) and man, do i wish that Shanodin Dryad had the 5th edition or Alpha art back in 7th..
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
If you have a fetch Lotus Cobra is basically free to cast which I feel makes an important difference plus Cobra can beat down while making mana. Without all the fetches he's probably not good enough. Bloom Tender over Priest of Titania might be worth a shot.
I've got a foil 7th Shanodin Dryads and I don't think it's THAT terrible. I prefer it over 5th art but agree Alpha is the best and would probably look sweet in foil. Gaea's Cradle foil I regret not picking up...crazy expensive now.
Hmm, a Cobra followed by a fetch does kind of net je a free snake. And it's a better hitter then the bloom tender without Warcaller/Eladamri. I'll give it a shot!
I always liked the Alpha/5th Dryads. Maybe i'll pick up a german FBB one. That would go great with the other german FBB cards.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
Does anyone have experience with carpet of flowers? Sure, you need a blue heavy meta for it to work, but it can power out Edric fast and keep doing so even if Edric has bitten the dust a few times.
On a sad note. My playgroup does not like all the extra turn effects... I'm looking for a few replacements. I already run Beastmaster Ascension, Biomass Mutation and Joraga Warcaller. The warcaller has been hit or miss. It's very flexible, but it would be infinitely better if i own a Cradle :/
I saw Spontaneous Generation pop up somewhere, and i thought it looks cool as hell. Overrun/triumph of the hordes might be good i guess.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
I've played Carpet of Flowers a lot in other decks but not being able to attack is a bummer. Still worth a shot, depends on the playgroup.
Has Caller of the Claw been useful to people? Has anyone tested Stampede Driver as a potential way to push extra damage through?
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
It doesn't even need to be a blue heavy meta. One island in play gets you one mana ramp at the cost of one mana for one card. I mean, it's not a good drop on turn 2 if you want Edric out then, but turn 1 and 3-whatever it's great. Plus you can often use the mana the turn you play it.
I run it in Edric and my Sigarda enchantress deck, and I literally can't think of a single time I've drawn it and been disappointed.
GReki, the History of Kamigawa Legendfall
UGEdric, Spymaster of Trest Drawmaster of Trest | GBGlissa the Traitor A Touch of Death | WBTeysa, Orzhov Scion Spinning in Graves
UWIsperia, Supreme Judge A Riddles of Sphinxes | RG Mena and Denn, Wildborn Beware Falling Rocks | GWSigarda, Host of Hurons The Enchantress
WRGRith the Awakener Superfriendly Tokens
8 island
5 forest
1 botanical sanctum
1 gemstone cavern
1 windswept heath
1 wooded foothills
1 verdant catacombs
1 flooded strand
1 scalding tarn
1 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
1 city of brass
1 yavimaya hollow
1 yavimaya coast
1 gemstone mine
1 mana confluence
1 dryad arbor
1 Thran quarry
1 reflecting pool
1 breeding pool
1 hinterland harbor
1 command tower
1 exotic orchard
Creatures CMC 1: 27
1 Shanodin Dryads
1 Cloud sprite
1 Grayscaled Gharial
1 Arbor Elf
1 Scryb Sprites
1 Jace's Phantasm
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Skyshroud Ranger
1 Flying Men
1 Treetop Scout
1 Martyr of Frost
1 Spire Tracer
1 Elvish Pioneer
1 Marsh Boa
1 Faerie Miscreant
1 Triton Shorestalker
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Wingcrafter
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Gudul Lurker
1 Mothdust Changeling
1 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Cloud Pirates
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Willow Dryad
1 Mausoleum wanderer
1 Eladamri, lord of leaves
1 spellstutter sprite
1 priest of titania
1 spiketail hatchling
1 lotus cobra
1 uktabi faerie
1 gaea's skyfolk
1 cloud of faeries
1 rootwater thief
1 pygmy hippo
Creatures CMC 3: 1
1 elvish spirit guide
Creatures CMC 4: 1
1 vine dryad
Enchantments: 6
1 Veil of birds
1 exploration
1 Carpet of flowers
1 Night soil
1 Teferi's veil
1 Beastmaster Ascension
Sorceries: 4
1 walk the aeons
1 Notorious Throng
1 Green sun's zenith
1 Nostalgic Dreams
Instants/counters: 10
1 spell pierce
1 unsubstantiate
1 arcane denial
1 miscalculation
1 forbid
1 counterspell
1 muddle the mixture
1 unified will
1 negate
1 mana leak
1 Biomass mutation
1 misdirection
1 chain of vapor
1 mystical tutor
1 wrap in vigor
1 snap
Yes, i know Pygmy Hippo isn't worth it. But i love him dammit. He even helps me ones or twice in forcing my kill cards through. So. i'm looking for tips and something to replace walk the eons with. Maybe sneak in that Stampede Driver i want to toy around with.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
Please put the colors of your suggestion in mana symbols prior to your suggestion in color-wheel order. To do this, put any of W, U, B, R, G, and/or C, whatever is applicable, with the word 'mana' inside [square bracets] before and the word '/mana' inside [square bracets] after the mana.
Freezing Point EDH series #1 (click through the other articles too!)
What about Heroic Intervention? Very useful against those wraths and boardwipes. It's an easy to cast, color-identity Boros Charm for your creatures. I'm gonna probably add it to the deck.
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It should be going into every Edric deck!
Oh Rider, my heart will go on...
Heroic Intervention looks awesome too.
Please put the colors of your suggestion in mana symbols prior to your suggestion in color-wheel order. To do this, put any of W, U, B, R, G, and/or C, whatever is applicable, with the word 'mana' inside [square bracets] before and the word '/mana' inside [square bracets] after the mana.
Freezing Point EDH series #1 (click through the other articles too!)