No card changes today, but wanted to express a few changes I'll likely be playtesting soon.
Profane Momento is something I certainly want to playtest. Whip of Erebos has been my go-to life stabilizer and the unearth effect is incredibly relevant, but without many ETB creatures to abuse it with, it does fall a bit short of where I'd like it to be. The momento is extremely aggressively costed, and can crank a lot of life up very fast depending on the decks at the table. With Dark Confidant in the deck, lowering the curve never hurts either, even though my curve is the last of my concern currently.
Sculpting Steel may be replacing Copy Artifact, or replacing some other card. Copy Artifact has both a sweet and sour spot. It's sweet spot lies in that it is tutorable by Shred Memory, and is agressively costed, but it's sour spot is that it's additionally fragile by making it an enchantment as well, and Tezzeret, the Seeker can't fish it out, which frankly is huge. I can't tell you how many times I've Tezzied for a Phyrexian Metamorph killing him outright to copy a lotus or something. If I had the ability to copy and still leave him at 1, it'd be quite the boon. However, Clever Impersonator is even MORE attractive at it's ability to copy anything, but is a bit more color demanding.
Arcane Lighthouse may be replacing Thespian's Stage or Ancient Tomb; This is going to be a weird change that will requite much debate and trial and error. I don't have a ton that targets, so the value of the lighthouse is questionable... but others do. Wrexial pulls a lot of weight in my removal, but politics do too. I often have to work with opposing players to take out a common threat (even if that means them letting me hit them with wrexial). This is an enabler both for myself and for others. The Stage has helped me BS-ramp myself many a times, but it's slow at doing so. Very slow. If I'm going to have something that takes that long I may as well have something better in the first place. Tomb is good, but hurts a lot and it stacks fast. I find myself having color issues faster with it as well.
Card Changes Currently Being Tested Body Double in place of Notion Thief. I'm uncertain why I hadn't thought of this sooner. Necrotic Ooze has the possibility of winning the game on his own just because of weird combinations in graveyards, but in my meta it's rare it happens. The abilities I want normally are my own, and at that point having that card back is simply more efficient. A popular combo in my group is the Revillark / Karmic Guide combo, and Double happens to synergize QUITE well with Rev. In addition, it gains added utility in being able to copy Phyrexian Metamorph, meaning it can possibly even copy artifacts. It's less color demanding and only costs 1 more.
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Rapid Hybridization will be replaced by Murderous Cut once I acquire one. This should need no explanation. It costs the same in 90% of situations, hits any creature, and is black instead of blue so it's easier to get the colors for; There will almost always be 4 cards chilling in my graveyard I don't direly need, and it can always be hard casted or partial payed by delve. This is basically a strict upgrade.
-Notion Thief has been removed for Body Double
Oddly enough, I haven't even used Body Double yet to know that it's better. I don't miss Notion Thief at all, and having it out I've noticed the hate levels start to dwindle as well. I still assume Body double to be an excellent inclusion, but if he turns out to be yet another flop I'll consider some other kind of reanimation.
-Lazav, Dimir Mastermind has been removed for Mystical Tutor
Flatly, Lazav has two problem with him. One, is that he doesn't do anything to help me achieve my milling goal. He turns into a big beater that sometimes does things. Secondly, he's VERY hard to cast a lot of the time. mana coloring isn't much of a problem, but when it starts to buckle down to weird specifics like this, I becomes hard to cast him and do other things. At least Memory Plunder was kind enough to be cast with just BBBB from coffers or something. It often never gets cast and just gets in my way. He's now going in the big boy sleeve with Wrexial as an alternate commander for when I'm feeling aggressive.
Previously, Mystical Tutor didn't have a large pallet of things to choose from to really use it to the fullest, and it was just an awkward placeholder for Vampiric Tutor that I didn't have at the time. Now, however, it hits a ripe 24 cards. That's a sickly 38% of my nonland cards, over a third. I normally pale away from restrictive tutors, but this one is very aggressively costed and hits enough now that I can use it to address virtually any situation. Absolute worst case scenario, it's a 1UBDemonic Tutor, to get any card.
-Diluvian Primodial has been removed for Coalition Relic
Consistently I've wanted more ways to get ahead faster, as my meta is harder and harder to keep up with. Despite my incredibly low curve (this set of card changes only slicked that even lower), I'm able to power so much out at once that I'm constantly in need of getting to a larger mana base before I can start making the gears turn properly. Hopefully the relic will help. The Primoridal, like Sepulchral Primordial before it, normally causes more problems than it helps. With a meta light on instants and sorceries, it only gets worse. The relic will help both ramp and potentially get even farther ahead if I play nice with it.
Currently Being Tested
-Caged Sun in place of Doubling Cube
The cube continues to be slow. In a perfect world, I'd have both, but the sun may fit it's niche better.
I've been very cautious about Delve cards in the past. The cards I have are normally quality and I try to find ways to exploit or reuse them even in the grave. Lands would be the most obvious to Delve but even then many important utility lands demand to be saved. I do intend to swap out Rapid Hybridization for Murderous Cut, but i'm unsure about those two listed.
Visions of Beyond fits the niche that Treasure Cruise does with the flexibility of being a UCantrip in a dire position; Dig being a sorcery puts it way lower on my list.
As far as Dig Through Time, I really like it, but Forbidden Alchemy may be better in these colors for being more usable and putting the extra cards into a relevant zone.
Temporal Trespass is another that has caught my eye though. I've been very touchy with time magic in the past but this one is so cool it'll be hard not to at least try it.
Traumatize is so good early and scales so badly into late game. That and it's inability to hit more than one player is really crippling. For something like your Wrexial, I can't recommend it enough, but my rendition is really trying to stay as laser focused on making MILL the wincon as opposed to just taking people's things as as side effect that it's viability just goes out the window. Keening Stone and Phenax, God of Deception may be seeing comebacks however, as well as a few more niche cards. Even Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker and Szadek, Lord of Secrets may finally have their day.
All the cares for Fate Reforged are now spoiled, so it's time for a set review of how relevant it is to our cause here. As always, I'd never do a review of every card, just the ones that caught my attention or I found worth noting on.
Colorless
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon: I'm happy to see it printed. Being a colorless planeswalker like Karn Liberated means he easily slots into any deck. That being said though, Karn never found a home in this deck either due to his overall clunkiness and unhelpfulness to the theme. Style points for his -10 being the polar opposite of Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, however.
Blue
Fascination: Our very own Ianust was actually asking about this card's usefulness in this deck the other day (see post above). It offers a unique niche. Drawing a lot of cards is a kill condition when libraries run low, so the first toggle is viable, and the second is just a worse Shared Trauma; Still, it being flexible earns it a lot of points and it's art is reminiscent of Fact or Fiction for me. If it were an instant, this would be a goldstandard, but unfortunately without a way to get to big mana quickly, early drawing on this would be a dead draw. As it is I have a lot of dead draws when I hit reanimation stuff when there is no graveyards. I'm working to fix that.
Reality Shift: This is a card I think will see play across commander in almost every blue deck. It's the closest thing to a Swords to Plowshares that blue has, and is still 1U exile target creature. Especially against creature-light decks, this can be exceptionally strong; I still prefer Curse of the Swine for it's flexibility, but please do consider this card.
Temporal Tresspass: Normally time magic gives me a bad taste in my mouth, but this one is so cool I may have to try it if I can get a hold of it. UUU is a bit heavy on the color side, however and 8 cards is a lot to be exiling out of my graveyard however.
Black
Archfiend of Depravity: This guy I'm quite excited for. This guy consistently keeps the board calm and collected, which is important when I myself am normally sparse on blockers. I'm not a swinger, so he also provides a big body to block with.
Crux of Fate: Damnation is still better, and so is Toxic Deluge; This is an excellent budget board wipe however, assuming dragons are super prevalent in your playgroup.
Dark Deal: The black Windfall has been beset upon us at last. Well, almost. The obvious downside is it doesn't check for the highest handsize (which is never mine) but still fits a lot of the uses that a traditional Windfall would. I'll likely be picking one up to try.
Merciless Executioner: Let's face it. We all wanted to run a second Fleshbag Marauder that wasn't Slum Reaver, right? Yeah me too, just not in this deck. However, with creature strategies on the rise, we may see one of these see an entry soon!
Sibsig Muckdraggers: For that CMC it should be return it to the BATTLEFIELD, not to hand. Way to miss the mark on what could have been a great playable, Wizards.
SO out of everything, Dark Deal is the one that caught my attention the most. Keep in mind that I'm doing a lot of remodeling with the deck and there are some things that really need to be shuffled around, as the deck currently is pretty bad without a plenty of consistent mill engines.
Side note: updates from 1/7/2015 haven't been included yet in the main post. I'll try to fix that shortly, but I've been busy as school is starting again soon.
No update at the moment. Just popping in to let everyone know that the Primer is NOT dead. For a good while my magic collection lay dormant, I was considering stopping magic all together and cashing out, but I've decided to keep just Wrexial, and liquidate all the rest. I will likely slowly be un-foiling the deck, but that's a minor point to begin with for you viewers. In the next update I will likely be removing all (foil) tags off of everything, to keep it simple.
Also, In my absence a new primer appeared! Wallabe made a Phenax, God of Deception Primer. I've only glanced at it, but from what I can see it offers a lot of information on the mill strategy with a less extremist approach like I have used. It offers using mill as a primary win condition but isn't afraid to dirty it's hands up in combat, and on a glance appears to take advantage of UB control a bit more than I have in the past. Contrast never hurts! Always be looking for new ideas and strategies.
A set review for Dragons will come up soon. I just looked through all of them to get kinda caught up on the only think off a glance that's catching my eye is Silumgar's Command and maybe Necromaster Dragon. Til then!
Hey Monk, glad to see you're still around! I have a lot of comments/feedback/questions and I figure this is a perfect place to think out loud, since you are the architect of this deck, and I have enjoyed a TON of success off your concept. My style is similar to your core, but I prefer a bit more control and I'm not afraid to win with aggro or Voltron in a 1v1. Here's my problem, like I'm sure you've had tons of times. If I included all the cards I wanted, the deck would be at 113 cards (not including the extra lands you'd need!) I run 36 lands and I like most of the mill package. Instead of highlighting differences and similarities, I think I would like to just list out the cards in question and give a brief pro/con for why they were in the deck to begin with, or why I see a home for them in the deck. I'm not afraid to break from Deck Synergy, but some cards don't play as well as I'd like. I'd love to get your feedback and suggestions on some of these cards and why you love them (or refuse to play them). My league is quite competitive and allows for a 10-card sideboard.
Cards you use that I'm not super sold on:
Memory Jar - I like that it mills the table and it can generate pretty one-sided card advantage, but I can never find the optimal time to do this. Hitting a C-Rift with the new draw is always hilarious however. Shadow of Doubt - I like the concept of this, and there always seems to be one guy tutoring for a counterspell, I just haven't had a chance to playtest this one yet. Convince me? Rapid Hybridization - I get that blue doesn't have any spot removal beyond maybe Pongify, but I feel like there are better uses of precious card slots than a semi-kill spell, even if it is instant speed. Blue mana is at a premium in this deck usually, too, so maybe a Hero's Downfall instead? Visions of Beyond - I dig the Ancestral Recall possibility, but I find myself holding onto this card too often, counting (and annoyingly so) my opponents' cards in graveyards as they look puzzled at me wondering why 18 cards isn't sufficient for my liking... Dark Confidant - I've yet to get burned on him, but I came within one card of hitting my Eldrazi, which would have stung. For a deck with no lifegain, I just wonder if this is doing our opponents' work for them? Phantasmal Image - Another card I literally just received, but have yet to playtest. I'm sure it will be an autoadd, but I'd like to get your input on it. Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - If I'm not able to hit all his triggers, I feel like I'm just wasting time on a card that's not super easy to cast for 4 CMC. He SHOULD be awesome, but I'm not sure our deck is the best home for him. Dralnu, Lich lord - I liked him.. a lot, until my meta adapted and started wishboarding Blasphemous Act and playing Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind as Commander. Now he watches from the sidelines.
Cards I've used that I'm not super sold on:
Future Sight - I always seem to have something better in my hand, but I'm also very excited when I can successfully get this card onto the battlefield. Mixed feelings to say the least. The interaction with Sensei's Divining Top is pretty dope though. Hinder - With the tuck factor eliminated on commanders, now I feel like this is just an overcosted Counterspell. Whip of Erebos - Lifegain is pretty necessary as much as we pay out, with cards like Bob and Reanimate, and the deck doesn't play any defense whatsoever, but the card slot, man, the card slot. This one is close... Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir - Doesn't fit the synergy in the least, but he's so broken and delicious. I keep cutting him, then putting him back in because I come to my senses. Thoughts? Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre - Ok two things, 1) massiveself-hittingmill and 2) Cabal Coffers, plus a Bonus) Mana Drain for me. He does a lot and I look for his trigger everytime I'm milling myself. The trigger is a double-edged sword, since Snapcaster Mage and Yawg Win turn into dead draws once you shuffle the graveyard but I don't want to be afraid to tap my entire manabase with two Mesmeric Orbs on the field. Arcanis the Omnipotent - Card draw is king in EDH, especially when you run broken cards and if you play blue. He's fantastically skilled and if I would ever remember to keep 2UU open, I would probably not even be mentioning him here, he'd be in the deck...
Cards in my sideboard that might be cool:
Trickbind - Combo-fest in my meta, plus cards like Terastodon piss me off. Ob Nixilis, Unshackled - Again, meta call, but show me a meta that doesn't use fetches or tutors and I'll be there, bro. Massacre Wurm - Perma-sideboard for him, usually have to be playing a Hazezon Tamar or similar commander to mainboard him. Telepathy - Didn't know the true power of this card until I played into it, and it flipped the script bigtime. I want to use it, but what would you possibly cut? Rhystic Study - This should be an automatic, especially if your pod is more than 2 opponents. I hate nothing more than NOT playing this, and having the guy next to me draw 36 cards off of his. Exsanguinate - Seems like a legit sideboard card, though it doesn't make a ton of sense to Death Wish for it, lol Death Wish - Sideboard fetcher, but that means you have to maindeck it... Cunning Wish - Again, there aren't a ton of sweet instants that aren't already in the deck, but if I'm Wishboarding one, I might as well hit both. No Mercy - I've yet to find the meta combination that convinces me this is the card I must have, but it seems like a valuable tool to have in the arsenal.
So as you can see, I've done quite a bit of work swapping, testing, adapting, personalizing and usually winning. You've created quite the monster deck, and don't sell yourself short, with the right tweaks, this deck could be insanely good, and it's always a lot of fun to play. I look forward to some input from you, as I've hit a wall with regards to add/drop.
As always I appreciate you taking time to read up and leave the feedback! Other's critique is often the only time a deck has a chance to improve once it's tweaked to a certain extent. So let's jump right in
Thing to prenote is A LOT of cards have been being swapped around and playtested for a radical overhaul soon.
[B]Memory Jar[/B]: This I can fully understand the skepticism. It's slow, yes. Since I'm including Silumgar's Command in the newest rendition of this deck, it is slightly better, but you pointing it out has revealed it as an old favorite before there were better mill cards. Remember, this deck was made in Innistrad originally ;D
[B]Shadow of Doubt[/B]: I'm still busy convincing myself. It was originally a spite include to fight the ridiculous ramp meta I'm a part of. I love it and the flavor is great, but I may swap it for Trickbind in it's slot, still countering many common ramps, fetches, as well as eldrazi titans.
[B]Rapid Hybridization[/B]: This is getting replaced by Murderous Cut, which is almost a strict upgrade. There will always be 4 cards to pitch, even if you don't necessarily want to. Black is generally easier to get as well.
[B]Visions of Beyond[/B]: I'm a huge fan of just cycling it sometimes. Even early game, using it as a cantrip to just cycle for U has saved me more than once. It combos with Academy Ruins and Volrath's Stronghold to get it now for only U more. More importantly, it's a bombshell if used by Yawgmoth's Will, Dralnu, Lich Lord, or Snapcaster Mage. I really reccomend it. Ancestral Recall is great but cannot be used when you absolutely need it now. Unlike you, I find myself running dry on hand size more than anything else.
[B]Dark Confidant[/B]: Will be replaced. He's one of the cards mentioned that will be removed for cheaper and more on flavor cards. He's fun, and in my build is honestly bonkers, but he's far from necessary. I'm probably gonna replace him with a Dark Deal.
[B]Phantasmal Image[/B] is easily one of the BEST cards in the deck, especially in a ETB Happy meta. When someone puffs out their chest and starts slamming big stuff down this lets you keep up VERY easily without breaking too much off what your plans for the turn were anyway. He is best used with Nemesis of Reason, but cards soon to be added also help a lot. His 2CMC also makes him a 2-cmc Shred Memory transmute target.
[B]Lazav, Dimir Mastermind[/b]: Check out post #157. He actually is removed but I haven't edited the main deck from it yet. Short version is he's in a parasitic relationship with mill, not a symbiotic. His awkward mana cost makes him also rough. He's a fun alternate commander for more aggressive play though!
[B]Dralnu, Lich Lord[/B]: Is a card that really depends on your meta. Some games I won't even play him because it's not worth it. Still, I love the card and it always delivers for me.
[B]Future Sight[/B] Is a fantastic card! But I would not recommend that here, since it's normally not going to help all that much without much topdeck control to couple with it. It works with Academy Ruins and Volrath's Stronghold beautifully though. It's good, but remember it's also 2UUU. If you were to use it again, I'd consider Magus of the Future for the body also, but I'm gonna pass on it.
[B]Sensei's Divining Top[/B]: Yeah, it's a staple. Yeah, it's good. But no, you probably don't need it.
[B]Hinder/Spell Crumple[/B]: Tuck factor is eliminated, but they're still good cards to handle versus decks that use their graveyards often also. Sometimes exile or tuck is still a harder zone for them to access. If you're not already, use Dissipate and Faerie's Trickery over these. Also, there's the Tunnel Vision Interaction to remember though.
[B]Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir[/B]: Every now and then you see the "Spirit of EDH" thing come around, and this is one of the biggest problems with the format. This, and Iona, Shield of Emeria. Both of these cards do one thing you should never do in magic. Completely take out the interactivity of the game. It essentially tells certain deck types they can't play magic anymore until someone nice enough to remove it for you comes along. Iona versus a mono colored deck is no less backbreaking than Teferi versus reactive control. I wouldn't run one in any casual deck simply on principle. [/ENDRANT]
[B]Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre[/B]: 1. That challenge is literally half the fun for me 2. I'm running Strip Mine and Tectonic Edge will be going in as well 3. I'm trying to un-expensive the deck :P. It's really unlikely the stars align and I can't get something out of my GY if I try.
[B]Arcanis the Omnipotent: He's one of my favorite cards in magic, actually. He was especially a bomb with [CARD]Necrotic Ooze. I'd like to use him again, actually.
[B]Trickbind[/B]: I actually ordered one. It's uses are infinite. Stopping Fetchlands, Eldrazi triggers, even ETB triggers. I'm certain it'll always be worth using.
[B]Ob Nixilis, Unshackled[/B]: I'm on the fence about it because 10 life is against milling, but my meta is getting REALLY out of hand with ramp, but the problem is it's mostly early game that it's its worst. So I'm not really sure what to do with that.
[B]Massacre Wurm[/B]: He's maindecked in my sedris deck (link below outdated also), and he has been a CONSISTENT bomb. I may include him but with Damnation, Cyclonic Rift, and Toxic Deluge I'm normally pretty covered for clearing the board. Only other one I'd consider would probably be Whelming Wave.
[B]Telepathy[/B]: Simply better in control. Also, I find that if others don't have good things, the others assume you do have good things. It's hyper casual at it's finest If you wanted to just play around with it, remove Visions of Beyond or something.
[B]Rhystic Study[/B]: A good way to get punched in the throat in my meta. It's a card if I see someone else having, I'll often gun for them on principle. You don't need it, but it is a good card. Your mileage may very, but for me it's mileage isn't very far
[B]Exsanguinate[/B]: Used innocently it's fine, but 99% of the time it's going to be used to try and win the game outright, and if you're in a position to do that, you're probably winning anyways. It's a win-more card at it's core, and Mind Grind is often just as easy to pull off.
[B]Death Wish[/B]: I love the card. It's flavor, it's use, it's all cool. Make sure you talk with your group obviously to figure out how the ruling is. For mine we use the 10 card wishboard rule. My deck is specifically No-infinite No-counter UB Mill, but I considered running this card to justify running some busted combo pieces. Throwing Rings of Brighthearth in the wish board sets up a few infinites, Morality Shift is an awesome flavor card to use when the mill isn't going your way, Relic of Progenitus as a panic button, etc. It would act as a swiss army knife to a multitude of Situations. I'm in favor of using it, but be creative with your board! That being said..
[B]Cunnin Wish[/B]: I disagree. It's cool, but most things you'd want to board won't be instants. Promise.
[B]No Mercy[/B]: certainly a deterrent! 4 mana seems a bit rough on the curve though, and you'll normally want to do other things rather than just set down a bubble. I'd consider Propaganda or Crawl Space if you're wanting a pillowfort aspect first. 3 is just a much more workable number.
As I told you there's a lot of tweaks happening to Wrexial. Here's some of the stuff that's been done or I've been trying out!
So expect to see some discussion on these as well!
So there you have it. If you get the chance, let me see your full list! You don't need to hypercard everything if you don't already have a thread made for it. My deck is undergoing a radical transformation to a quiet scheming deck into a much more front forward and aggressive milling that includes creatures like Raven Guild Master to offer a constant board presence early for the plotting wacky plans in the late game. I look forward to it
Thanks again for the support!
EDIT:
[B]Whip of Erebos[/B] is good, but I believe you're right that it may not be worth the card slot. I'm likely to remove it soon, but I do want to try Profane Momento, should I ever need more lifegain!
I as well just replaced Rapid Hybridization with Dark Banishing, but I'll probably end up with Murderous Cut. The card I really ever use it on is Gaddock Teeg, so it has to be under 4 CMC. It doesn't really matter, since it's a wishboarded card (and if I'm already Death Wishing I might as well Cunning Wish). I'll get you a full list of my deck and wishboard in a few days.
I see that you really are moving this into a budget deck, which is cool. My deck is not budget friendly, as I run really expensive counter magic and lands. As with anything regarding deck building it's always a balance of "I don't want to be that guy" against "this card is too good not to use", especially with regards to cards like Top and Teferi.
I really like the explosive power of Morality Shift, but it would have to go in place of the Eldrazi, since it would just end up being an Elixir otherwise. I want all of my wishboard cards to be either panic button type cards or specific answer (usually both lol)
Is regeneration a big issue in your group? Elsewise, I'd drop the Dark Banishing for a good ol' Doomblade. Terror is also useful, assuming artifact isn't an issue either.
So far, though, I haven't seen too much difference in it's play level. The only cards I've really gotten rid of is Underground Sea, Dark Confidant, Bloodstained Mire, and Scalding Tarn. The lands just smooth things out really, and Dark Confidant is honestly a winmore card. The overall power isn't dropping of the deck. I won't be getting of any key cards like Crucible of Worlds or anything, just exploring lesser used options. I find that often lesser known cards wreck metas because they aren't prepared for it. So far, for example Szadek, Lord of Secrets and Crumbling Sactuary are both bombs. With the inclusion of Profane Momento, Altar of the Brood, Mindcrank, Memory Erosion and Raven Guild Master I'm more aggressively milling than ever. I don't have to rely on Mesmeric Orb so much to really get it in there. Inclusion of another manarock has also gone leaps and bounds in making sure that some of the new higher drops, like Szadek and Lord of the Void are still useful at all times.
I haven't updated the decklist yet because honestly, there are a LOT of changes going on. The deck overall is becoming much faster with high late game potential, but consistent throughout. No longer should I be durdling around the first few turns just trying to set up. It comes out as a threat early, but can support taking that heat a bit better too. If you haven't tried it yet, Crumbling Sanctuary has been a godsend in staving off aggro. Never drop it until you have a few proper engines to mill someone out, but buying a few extra turns with it is absolutely critical at times. and has won me the game more than once.
In reference to your deck building though, I try to avoid being that guy ever, and try to keep my "too good" cards to an absolute minimum. Iona is a purely competitive card that has no place in a more casual group, for example. As for the Rhystic, it's good, but you really have to question if you need it. I don't think my deck needs it because it consistently refills it's hand on it's own. It's for this same reason Necropotence was removed from an earlier build. I ALWAYS question staples, and make sure I'm running them because they're beneficial and synergistic to the deck, and not because they're just "goodstuff". With your deck being a lot more open with what kind of cards it's using overall how it's executed, I have no doubt that Top and Rhystic are bombshells that do well, however. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir I generally try to avoid unless I'm playing heavy control, because he does suck the interactivity from the game.
If you notice, though Underground Sea is removed from the physical deck in person, it's not removed from the decklist online. The reason for that is it's still an obvious inclusion in the deck. Same going for the fetchlands.
The landbase in the deck is just about as perfect as I'm going to get it without diving into more fetches or insanely expensive lands, so I'm happy keeping it as is at least on the list.
The Primer will be facing a lot of upcoming changes, but the lands aren't one of them. The only major land that has been changed is I did remove Exotic Orchard for a Faerie's Conclave, which is more a means to keep my swords relevant than anything.
Again, lots and lots of neat changes coming up to look forward to. The deck is much more geared towards mill and less towards goodstuff. I seek to be the Mill resource, not the UB graveyard shenanigan deck.
Wow, you're not kidding, you've gone to a very heavy mill package, almost at the expense of damage. The problem with my group is that you don't get points for milling someone out (unless you force them to fail to draw) so it requires a card like Windfall to get it to be lethal. I want to follow you down this rabbit hole but my meta is increasingly competitive since we play for store credit and we're all pretty good players. I've yet to see another mill EDH deck, and I'm not convinced it's viable as a wincon yet, but it looks really fun to try. How do you fare without counter magic? Last game I was well in control until someone cycled a Decree of Annihilation and followed it with Insurrection. I'd like to at least have the option to stop those, lol.
-Removed Whip of Erebos for Profane Momento
Frankly, Whip was only there for an on-theme lifegain outlet. Every good deck should have at least one, but it was becoming sub par as few of my creatures are actually doing any kind of significant damage. The Momento, however, has the ability to cause incredible life swings very rapidly given the proper engines.
-Removed Torpor Orb for Trickbind Torpor Orb was one of few cards in the deck specifically included as a silver bullet for my meta. However, the meta has changed with my recent move, and ETB isn't a major problem. However, trickbind handles many problems, from eldrazi triggers to a single use ETB counter. At the same CMC, this should do fine.
-Removed Reanimate for Raven Guild Master
I was really hesitant to remove Reanimate, but I've played at least 10 games now without it and honestly haven't missed it. Animate Dead can be argued to be worse, but being able to be tutored with Shred Memory is a great bonus. I may switch Animate Dead for Reanimate later, but for now this is where we stand. The Guild Master is a bombshell that drops early and punishes hard. With Sword of Body and Mind it's an absolute bomb.
-Removed Magus of the Jar for Dark Deal
Dark Deal is simply the new, black Windfall. Although it won't help me refill my hand, it still serves great purpose like all other windfalls, and offers yet another way to deliver the final draw blow. Being even lower on CMC only makes it better.
-Removed Increasing Ambition for Crumbling Sanctuary
I go in ebbs and tides in having lots of tutors and very few. I on the side now that I have too many. Most situations can be handled by having more cards rather than searching one outright. Currently though, I draw plenty so having a solid life raft like Crumbling Sanctuary is helpful. It's a scary card, but it does buy me multiple extra turns in situations I'd otherwise die.
-Removed Havengul Lich for Silumgar's Command
To be blunt, I don't get to use Havengul Lich as much as I'd like, and when I could I don't have creatures in the grave to fully abuse it. Silumgar's command offers two very relevant modes at all times, and for the first time in a *very* long time, a counterspell is now featured in the deck. Alongside trickbind, this should allow me to be a bit more reactive.
To reply to you, Lanust, I've almost completely eradicated damage to make it as attractive as possible to try and win through mill. In certain circumstances, absolutely go for the damage win, but previously too often I'd find myself without some kind of mill engine early and I'm just sitting. New agressive changes have made it much more consistent in at least getting the ball started, even if it's in small ways. Finishing someone off isn't normally an issue. Either exile their graveyard or force them to draw with a windfall, Cephalid Colosseum, or something. Often I don't have an issue with just letting them draw at upkeep. Keeping pressure on the graveyard with crypts or spellbombs is the easiest way to stop shenanigans like that.
I have included Silumgar's Command now, which offers protection from noncreature bombs like that. If you're looking for a second, I'd consider Muddle in the Mixture for it's double purposedness. Now, that won't stop cycling Decree of Pain, but Trickbind will. Hope these may help. I would consider upping your control package if your meta is a problem, however. My meta is mostly damage based, and counterspells often wouldn't help. I try to be as proactive as possible and exile problematic combo pieces before they even get the chance.
There's still many changes coming, but I'm being careful to do them only a few at a time as to know for sure if they're working or not. As always thanks for the input and keeping up
I have tremendous fun with the deck but I got two problems I'm trying to fix.
a) I have trouble closing games with mill. Perhaps its because I am still learning the tricks. I haven't had the chance to use sacrament yet for example and the tunnel vision combo just seems too clunky to me. The only time I did that was when I had 3 orbs out and killed the table.
b) I prefer more reactive approaches and frankly the absence of counters and of better card draw makes me uneasy. But then again with all the self mill I'm not sure it's worth including a counter suite.
I have had tremendous success with a tweaked version of what Monk posted as his evolved decklist. I'll share it later today when I can get a decklist but it runs very expensive ($) countermagic and some tutoring (I absolutely refuse to run Rhystic Study even though I know how awesome it is).
What do you guys think of Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Sire of Stagnation. I made an entire EDH deck from Ulamog and I think that mill could easily be a late-game finisher. As for the Sire, passive mill in general is AWESOME and card draw is potentially INSANE!
I have pretty much overhauled the deck, and over the course of the next week I will try and make the changes. For the most part, I have tried to make a more creature and permanent heavy approach, while cutting down on staple cards that really aren't helping to mill, such as Copy Artifact, Phyrexian Arena, and Tezzeret the Seeker. In their stead, I've been trying out many cheap but repeatable sources of mill for higher consistency to ensure that mill can start early and keep churning the entire game, rather than explode and mill everyone out in a turn or two.
As long promised, here it is. This is the largest update I'll be doing for quite a while. I've reworked a lot of what the deck is supposed to do and overall tried to up the creature count, permanency, and consistency of milling. I have taken out a handful of staples that I'm sure will bring controversy, but I think overall Wrexial has been stronger than ever.
Removed Cards
-Mind Grind
Although this card is excellent for finishing up games, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth the same as Exsanguinate does. Feel free to run it, but I don't personally like it.
-Body Double
Slightly too bulky on the curve, and more often I want my own things instead of others, so Clever Impersonator was just better.
-Dark Confidant
It would be nice to still have, but it doesn't help me mill at all and it's just a lump of money that I could redistribute elsewhere. I really want to hammer in mill consistency and this was one of the first to make the cut.
-Phantasmal Image
Although a two mana clone is always nice, consistency is the key. And opening with a hand of four clones and nothing to clone isn't helping to mill. I'm sad to see it go but it's for the greater good.
-Necrotic Ooze
Forever on the fence, forever unsure about it.
-Geth, Lord of the Vault
Too many times Geth has sat in my hand and not been able to be of too much use. Too many times I've cast him and then really had just better things to do. Unlike Oona, Queen of the Fae, his ability requires specific mana and targets to do his job, and then more times than not anything I take really isn't helping so the mana would have been better used elsewhere. It's been fun Geth but your time has come.
-6 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
This is great at taking other people things, but I'm really trying to home in on milling people as a wincon, not as an avenue to beat the curve. Sorry Inky!
-Curse of the Swine
Pigify will be missed as well, but normally it doesn't help the field too much. 2/2s are still just as much a problem. If this were an instant, it would make the cut undoubtedly but until then I'm going to favor catch-all bounce cards.
-Toxic Deluge
A great card and a great boardwipe, but hurts quite a bit. I've decided to use Whelming Wave instead, as it gaurentees Wrexial, the Risen Deep and Nemesis of Reason to stay, and there is a good chance I can cast a few smaller creatures back out before Windfalling the rest away before my opponents can use it.
-Consuming Vapors
A great card but again I'm trying to move to more mill, and what control I do have I want to be at instant speed to increase the reactivity of the deck.
-Bribery
The same issue I had with Geth. Rarely is this helping me mill, making it just another goodstuff card that isn't helping the cause. I will miss it being a Naturalize by grabbing Acidic Slime though.
-Vamipiric Tutor
Often I can't use it as a true instant because I may mill the top card of my library on my upkeep, making this only work if I'm paying the mana that turn, then stunting my draw and losing two life. Now that may not seem too bad, but I sat down and looked at it and I really won't need that many tutors with a higher consistency of mill cards and draw, so this is getting the axe along with Mystical Tutor.
-Rapid Hybridization
I've toyed around with this and Murderous Cut but ultimately I'm never happy with it. The real problems lie with indestructible creatures or creatures with shroud/hexproof and this aid's neither. In addition, the 3/3 is often worse for them to have than whatever they already had.
-Shadow of Doubt
I've really been trying to find more ways to hate on ramp and I had tried this card out for it but it's not enough. It may see play later in the future but for now it's going to rest.
-Shred Memory
Even with it's transmute being stronger than ever, I find that it's still awkward in that I'm never sure to use it as a tutor or to try and hold it if I need it. Ultimately, it was cut in favor of just more mill.
-Fact or Fiction
Once an obvious inclusion has been made obsolete in that I'm not using my own graveyard quite as heavily as before.
-Memory Plunder
Originally there for redundency on my commander's ability, it is awkward to cast still and often doesn't help the current situation. It's primary use was to get a Naturalize effect or a board wipe, but often i can get wrexial out with haste and solve the problem that way. I may eventually remove Silumgar's Command in favor of this, but not today.
-Copy Artifact
Still good at a 2CMC Sculpting Steel even if it does make a wonky enchantment-artifact, but I want to have more diversity in the types of mill rather than just cloning the one powerhouse over and over. I still have Clever Impersonator and Phyrexian Metamorph, so I still can should the need arise.
-Phyrexian Arena
Although a staple, there are better less painful ways to get card draw. With the inclusions of Fathom Feeder, Sire of Stagnation, Brainstorm and others, I don't see the need for this kind of card any longer.
-Doubling Cube
Although it served as one of my only ways to achieve big mana, it's slow, clunky, and has no place in the much faster version of the deck I have now. I'm going for consistency rather than explosiveness, and this card is about as explosive as you're going to get.
-Crucible of Worlds
Another staple getting the boot. Don't get me wrong, it's an excellent card, but there aren't a whole lot of situations it works in unless I'm already winning. The only three cards that really make myself mill is Mesmeric Orb, Dreamborn Muse, and Anvil of Bogarden, so the usefulness of the crucible is limited as it is. I still have Petrified Field in a pinch, and I may consider Grim Discovery if I find I need more recursion.
-Sword of Body and Mind
This may return one day, but overall it just wasn't doing enough to justify it's spot. Often the most it did was serve as a lightning rod for removal, as most staples do.
-Crumbling Sanctuary
This was removed a while ago, predating most of these changes, for the express reason that I often got myself killed because a lot more of my mill was parallel across the board. Now, that isn't as much the case and I'm waiting to see to what extent I get the advantage before putting this back in. We may see it return in the near future, stay tuned!
-Gilded Lotus
A great rock but nothing more. I've found that having more consistency and land dropping ever turn has helped more than getting ahead. There is a lot of hate on artifacts in my meta as well, so I'd perfer not to rely on artifacts for mana.
Added Cards
+Psychic Spiral
The much ignored killshot. I've been stringent for a long time to not run any "Failsafes" for flavor reasons, but if there was one way to save my graveyard this is is. Late game, this wraps it up and knocks out remaining players and cements your position on the board. Just be careful of it getting stolen!
+Merfolk Mesmerist
Initially I had thought about using the 4 drop version of this from the innistrad block, but hten I found this and it is perfect. It's a cheap blocking body at two mana and has a cheap and repeatable ability to do at instant speed. I often find myself with just one or two man left over, so it was an easy inclusion.
+Brain Freeze
My roommate convinced me to put this in and I've been loving it since. It punishes a player for a big explosive turn or just wraps up a Yawgmoth's Will beautifully.
+Telemin Performance
This card normally isn't to useful for the creature it actually gets, but it makes a body and will absolutely demolish a deck that doesn't run very many creatures. It's particularly nice against decks that run rampant with fatties, like my very own Sedris, the Traitor King deck, becasue you're normally guaranteed to even the playing field or at least get a solid blocker.
+Wipe Away
Continuing on a small subtheme of bounce+windfall, this is one of the best, even able to hit lands. The split second mechanic has it basically uncounterable and will even remove a pesky Elixir of Immortalitywithout fear of them being able to crack it.
+Memory Erosion
I had this card in the deck in the past, but never realized just how powerful that effect is. If another player is getting ahead, this hard punishes them for it. Even moreover, it adds drawbacks to cheap simple effects such as ramping that otherwise go unchecked. Quite a powerhouse and I'm glad to have it back
+Chronic Flooding
This card I wasn't too sure about at first, but three cards a turn does get hefty and I've found that most people will just choose to not use the land, making it just as good as a Sinkhole, which is just as fine. Getting this on an important land, such as a bounceland or filterland forces them to mill for just using mana, which is better than one would expect.
+Sphinx's Tutelage
This card is bonkers. Jace's Erasure was already decent but this doubles that and more. Combined with any Windfall effect you can easily chunk someones library for fifteen cards or upwards.
+Sire of Stagnation
Hurts them, helps you, punishes ramp, and has a good body for Phenax, while interestingly still giving devotion.
+Life's Finale
In a weird way, it does mill. Pulling three cards out makes it like a Buried Alive for your opponents. Generally speaking, that's not helpful because I don't have very many cards to nor do I want to reanimate opponents creatures anymore (usually, anyways), but I can dump Eldrazi Titans or other problem creatures in and then Tormod's Crypt or Nihil Spellbomb it with the trigger on the stack, making it more than *just* a board wipe. Quite the tech if I do say so myself.
+Anvil of Bogarden
This falls in with the Windfalls in that it doesn't mill, but it does get cards ultimately from the deck to the grave. It's parallel, forcing you to do it as well, but in exchange you no longer have a maximum hand size and you get card selection all the same. It's surprising how much a difference losing one more card a turn from your library can matter. Consistency is the goal here, and CPT (Cards per turn) matters!
+Crosstown Courier
This little guy may not appear much, but it's a 2/1 for two that has a Mindcrank built in, well at least for combat damage. I don't have many ways to pump him but he holds Sword of Body and Mind like a champion and offers early blocks if he cant swing in.
+Keening Stone
I need to stop whatever it is I'm smokin because this card should never leave this deck. Apologies for my temporary insanities.
+Altar of Dementia
I had toyed with this in the past but ultimately didn't have the creature concentration to make it worth it. Now that I have more creatures and a bit higher power curve, it is once again welcomed. It is a bummer that it says Power rather than Toughness, but it's still good to have in the event creatures are going to the grave anyways.
+Jace's Erasure
It's back, and better than ever with more card draw and windfalls. Getting this out with Sphinx's Tutelage at the same time can really lay the hate down on one individual or spread the love to the whole table.
+Whelming Wave
A card I've wanted to include for quite a long time. Tailor made for Wrexial himself, and by side effect Nemesis of Reason sticks around too. With as many Windfall effects as I have, this can easily be made permanent if need be, but will always open the path for Wrexial against a non U non B player.
+Fathom Feeder
This little guy turned out to be a powerhouse. The deathtouch makes him a great blocker as well as a nigh-unblockable swinger. The devoid ensures he can always block pro-color creatures, namely those with swords; The ingest is just nice pseudo mill that adds up, and the activated ability is welcome card draw, even if it is a 3UB dump, which has the added bonus of psuedo milling even more. Quite the house.
+Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker
A decently priced 2/4 flyer with Mind Funeral on hit. Repeatable, powerful. Exactly what we need.This really should have been in since it's release in Gatecrash.
+Soul Manipulation
I'm forever torn between using this and Perplex, but overall this card has two modes that are both very relevant at instant speed. Doing both just adds insult to injury and can really turn a tide against an otherwise huge problem.
+Shriekgiest
2 mana, 1/1, flies, mills cards. It's aggresive and offers one more flyer to the deck which is much needed. Often I just get pummeled in by fliers, but this will block at least one, even late game.
+Brainstorm
I'm not a huge fan of brainstorm as a whole, but in this deck it gets work done. It can be used to smooth out an awkward hand or more importantly hide two cards back on top of my libary in the event of a Windfall effect.
+Phenax, God of Deception
With more creatures and permanents comes our god back. I never realized just how easily he turns online, needing only two devotion plus himself and Wrexial. Once online, just between Phenax and Wrexial that is 15CPT, something that if left unanswered will quickly finish a game up.
+Szadek, Lord of Secrets
Though pricy, this man gets it done. Even from a full 92 card library (if somehow you pull off a turn 1 via planechase or something), it takes only 5 hits to sufficiently murder someone's library. In addition, with Phenax, God of Deception and Altar of Dementia, you can add insult to injury once more.
Two notable exclusions here since I don't own them yet are Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Oblivion Sower. Funny, how Eldrazi used to be such hated foes and now they are joining our ranks by the handful.
Some very interesting changes here. I agree with most stuff but the loss of Tezzeret the Seeker troubles me. He's been invaluable to my games, fetching any artefact I need. Imagine him with keening stone out. Shriekgeist seems underwhelming too. Why not use mindshrieker? Its a better blocker/attacker, turns left-over mana into mill that does not require damage and gets crazy with Phenax.
Some very interesting changes here. I agree with most stuff but the loss of Tezzeret the Seeker troubles me. He's been invaluable to my games, fetching any artefact I need. Imagine him with keening stone out. Shriekgeist seems underwhelming too. Why not use mindshrieker? Its a better blocker/attacker, turns left-over mana into mill that does not require damage and gets crazy with Phenax.
I can understand the concern. I really didn't want to take Tezzeret the Seeker out, but tried it and I haven't really missed him much. With the inclusion of a lot more milling artifacts, such as Altar of Dementia and Altar of the Brood it is tempting to put him back in, and I may in the future. However, before it seemed the only thing he was really accomplishing was for the most part just making mana everywhere, and was detracting from my original goal. With the inclusion of Phenax, God of Deception, his ultimate is more relevant, because having every artfact just turn into [tap] mill five is likely a killshot to at least one player, and unless answered immediately, game ending. I'm not sure what I'd remove to put him back in though. Any suggestions?
That's an interesting thought. Shriekgiest was what I found at the time, and I liked that it was fast on the mill without investing too much mana. However, thinking on it now Mindshrieker is a better card late game for certain, however does require a heavier investment early game. Both supply a 1U flying blocker, but Mindshrieker could be pumped to kill a dragon or something with luck or enough mana. I will for certain try this out, and get back to you on that.
Thanks man! I had put it off for a long time, but really got to dig in and try a lot of changes for the big update, and I really do think I've upped the potency by quite a bit. The higher creature density is helping a lot but the more aggressive curve is starting milling really early resulting in getting beaten out of the game pretty fast, so I may be looking to figure that out. I'm thinking another board wipe such as Black Sun's Zenith since it's self recurring, and will weaken some creatures without killing them (good for pacifying creatures such as Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge.
I'd remove crosstown courier and the sword of body and mind. The sword has never been useful to me, just a win more. The courier just seems like meh overall. His effect is not good enough without the sword and he has no evasion.
I've also been thinking of trying Dread Summons. In multiplayer this seems very good with Phenax or the zombie alchemist out.
The courier I can agree with. Having the cheap value creatures is very helpful, but I've found that Merfolk Mesmerist has been my favorite of them, just offering consistency.
I've been using Wrexial as a general for years now and have absolutely loved it. Because for a long time there was no real EDH community around here I would just play with my brother, so the deck is built to work best 1v1. Now that our LGS finally has a decent number of people coming out to regular casual Commander nights, I'd like to adjust the deck to play multiplayer - after all, that's how Commander is meant to be played. Hoping to really upgrade this deck quite a bit. Suggestions?
I've taken a slightly different approach, focusing not just on the milling and then stealing from the graveyard, but also including a few cards to yoink their creatures while they're on the board. I'm willing to let that go if the balls-out mill approach works better in multiplayer though.
Private Mod Note
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DCI Level 2 Judge
Modern: GRB Jund BRG RBU Grixis Delver UBR Legacy: W Death & Taxes W GRB Punishing Jund BRG GUR Canadian Threshold RUG Commander: RUG Maelstrom Wanderer GUR
First off, thanks for reading the primer and moreso for coming to ask for some help.
One thing to know, mill is still a very bad win condition in EDH, especially for multiplayer. There has been a LOT of support added over the past few years to aide this, but I still wouldn't call it viable in any competitive meta. That's personally the reason I like playing Mill, because it is probably the hardest deckbuilding challenge you can do.
Now, with my Wrexial, I try my damndest not to kill with damage and really try to make sure it's mill that is the final cause of deck. The way your deck seems it does seem to take quite a bit of things, which is fine. Taking other people's things and beating their face in with them is both satisfactory and fun; My roommate has a Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge deck which literally has no card in the deck that doesn't copy or steal someone elses things, save for a few haste outlets, and it is a blast to both play and play against. It's always a fun matchup because if you're bringing a mill deck to the table against her, she can also play mill. Playing minotaur tribal? well, she is now too. It's an excellent deck archetype because it will never play the same two games in a row, offering insane replay value. For a long time, this was my only deck and I never really got bored of it, but again, you have to find what balance is right for you.
For the most part, everything looks pretty solid, and would probably work well for multiplayer even without tweaking. It seems you're *very* control heavy, which is fine, but even with that there is a few cards I'd definitely change
Lighthouse Chronologist - This card is a death sentence and will draw the entire table against you unquestionably. Guile - another hatebear that no one likes to see. It's a powerful card but I don't think you have quite enough counters to really take the advantage of it you'd need. Sage of Epityr - I love the guy but he's kind of bad to topdeck late game. Something like Raven Familiar at least puts cards directly in your hand with a flying body. With as many cantrips as you have, you shouldn't need this guy. Skirsdag High Priest - He's great but I don't see very many ways in your deck to really trigger off morbid reliably, making him considerably weaker.
and maybe a one or two of your cantrips. You have quite a lot, and they are helpful, but you don't want to be cantripping into cantrips. It's not storm, so it's wasting card slots that could otherwise affect the board state. You could use a board wipe or two. Damnation is excellent if you have access to it, but otherwise Life's Finale and Whelming Wave have been two of my favorites for the deck for a while now, and both are less than 1$. Every EDH deck should have at least one board wipe.
Can't wait to hear back; It's always exciting to see someone else interested in playing mill.
Profane Momento is something I certainly want to playtest. Whip of Erebos has been my go-to life stabilizer and the unearth effect is incredibly relevant, but without many ETB creatures to abuse it with, it does fall a bit short of where I'd like it to be. The momento is extremely aggressively costed, and can crank a lot of life up very fast depending on the decks at the table. With Dark Confidant in the deck, lowering the curve never hurts either, even though my curve is the last of my concern currently.
Sculpting Steel may be replacing Copy Artifact, or replacing some other card. Copy Artifact has both a sweet and sour spot. It's sweet spot lies in that it is tutorable by Shred Memory, and is agressively costed, but it's sour spot is that it's additionally fragile by making it an enchantment as well, and Tezzeret, the Seeker can't fish it out, which frankly is huge. I can't tell you how many times I've Tezzied for a Phyrexian Metamorph killing him outright to copy a lotus or something. If I had the ability to copy and still leave him at 1, it'd be quite the boon. However, Clever Impersonator is even MORE attractive at it's ability to copy anything, but is a bit more color demanding.
Arcane Lighthouse may be replacing Thespian's Stage or Ancient Tomb; This is going to be a weird change that will requite much debate and trial and error. I don't have a ton that targets, so the value of the lighthouse is questionable... but others do. Wrexial pulls a lot of weight in my removal, but politics do too. I often have to work with opposing players to take out a common threat (even if that means them letting me hit them with wrexial). This is an enabler both for myself and for others. The Stage has helped me BS-ramp myself many a times, but it's slow at doing so. Very slow. If I'm going to have something that takes that long I may as well have something better in the first place. Tomb is good, but hurts a lot and it stacks fast. I find myself having color issues faster with it as well.
Card Changes Currently Being Tested
Body Double in place of Notion Thief. I'm uncertain why I hadn't thought of this sooner. Necrotic Ooze has the possibility of winning the game on his own just because of weird combinations in graveyards, but in my meta it's rare it happens. The abilities I want normally are my own, and at that point having that card back is simply more efficient. A popular combo in my group is the Revillark / Karmic Guide combo, and Double happens to synergize QUITE well with Rev. In addition, it gains added utility in being able to copy Phyrexian Metamorph, meaning it can possibly even copy artifacts. It's less color demanding and only costs 1 more.
---
Rapid Hybridization will be replaced by Murderous Cut once I acquire one. This should need no explanation. It costs the same in 90% of situations, hits any creature, and is black instead of blue so it's easier to get the colors for; There will almost always be 4 cards chilling in my graveyard I don't direly need, and it can always be hard casted or partial payed by delve. This is basically a strict upgrade.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Oddly enough, I haven't even used Body Double yet to know that it's better. I don't miss Notion Thief at all, and having it out I've noticed the hate levels start to dwindle as well. I still assume Body double to be an excellent inclusion, but if he turns out to be yet another flop I'll consider some other kind of reanimation.
-Lazav, Dimir Mastermind has been removed for Mystical Tutor
Flatly, Lazav has two problem with him. One, is that he doesn't do anything to help me achieve my milling goal. He turns into a big beater that sometimes does things. Secondly, he's VERY hard to cast a lot of the time. mana coloring isn't much of a problem, but when it starts to buckle down to weird specifics like this, I becomes hard to cast him and do other things. At least Memory Plunder was kind enough to be cast with just BBBB from coffers or something. It often never gets cast and just gets in my way. He's now going in the big boy sleeve with Wrexial as an alternate commander for when I'm feeling aggressive.
-Diluvian Primodial has been removed for Coalition Relic
Consistently I've wanted more ways to get ahead faster, as my meta is harder and harder to keep up with. Despite my incredibly low curve (this set of card changes only slicked that even lower), I'm able to power so much out at once that I'm constantly in need of getting to a larger mana base before I can start making the gears turn properly. Hopefully the relic will help. The Primoridal, like Sepulchral Primordial before it, normally causes more problems than it helps. With a meta light on instants and sorceries, it only gets worse. The relic will help both ramp and potentially get even farther ahead if I play nice with it.
Currently Being Tested
-Caged Sun in place of Doubling Cube
The cube continues to be slow. In a perfect world, I'd have both, but the sun may fit it's niche better.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Visions of Beyond fits the niche that Treasure Cruise does with the flexibility of being a UCantrip in a dire position; Dig being a sorcery puts it way lower on my list.
As far as Dig Through Time, I really like it, but Forbidden Alchemy may be better in these colors for being more usable and putting the extra cards into a relevant zone.
Temporal Trespass is another that has caught my eye though. I've been very touchy with time magic in the past but this one is so cool it'll be hard not to at least try it.
Traumatize is so good early and scales so badly into late game. That and it's inability to hit more than one player is really crippling. For something like your Wrexial, I can't recommend it enough, but my rendition is really trying to stay as laser focused on making MILL the wincon as opposed to just taking people's things as as side effect that it's viability just goes out the window. Keening Stone and Phenax, God of Deception may be seeing comebacks however, as well as a few more niche cards. Even Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker and Szadek, Lord of Secrets may finally have their day.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Colorless
Blue
Black
SO out of everything, Dark Deal is the one that caught my attention the most. Keep in mind that I'm doing a lot of remodeling with the deck and there are some things that really need to be shuffled around, as the deck currently is pretty bad without a plenty of consistent mill engines.
Side note: updates from 1/7/2015 haven't been included yet in the main post. I'll try to fix that shortly, but I've been busy as school is starting again soon.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Also, In my absence a new primer appeared! Wallabe made a Phenax, God of Deception Primer. I've only glanced at it, but from what I can see it offers a lot of information on the mill strategy with a less extremist approach like I have used. It offers using mill as a primary win condition but isn't afraid to dirty it's hands up in combat, and on a glance appears to take advantage of UB control a bit more than I have in the past. Contrast never hurts! Always be looking for new ideas and strategies.
A set review for Dragons will come up soon. I just looked through all of them to get kinda caught up on the only think off a glance that's catching my eye is Silumgar's Command and maybe Necromaster Dragon. Til then!
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Cards you use that I'm not super sold on:
Memory Jar - I like that it mills the table and it can generate pretty one-sided card advantage, but I can never find the optimal time to do this. Hitting a C-Rift with the new draw is always hilarious however.
Shadow of Doubt - I like the concept of this, and there always seems to be one guy tutoring for a counterspell, I just haven't had a chance to playtest this one yet. Convince me?
Rapid Hybridization - I get that blue doesn't have any spot removal beyond maybe Pongify, but I feel like there are better uses of precious card slots than a semi-kill spell, even if it is instant speed. Blue mana is at a premium in this deck usually, too, so maybe a Hero's Downfall instead?
Visions of Beyond - I dig the Ancestral Recall possibility, but I find myself holding onto this card too often, counting (and annoyingly so) my opponents' cards in graveyards as they look puzzled at me wondering why 18 cards isn't sufficient for my liking...
Dark Confidant - I've yet to get burned on him, but I came within one card of hitting my Eldrazi, which would have stung. For a deck with no lifegain, I just wonder if this is doing our opponents' work for them?
Phantasmal Image - Another card I literally just received, but have yet to playtest. I'm sure it will be an autoadd, but I'd like to get your input on it.
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - If I'm not able to hit all his triggers, I feel like I'm just wasting time on a card that's not super easy to cast for 4 CMC. He SHOULD be awesome, but I'm not sure our deck is the best home for him.
Dralnu, Lich lord - I liked him.. a lot, until my meta adapted and started wishboarding Blasphemous Act and playing Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind as Commander. Now he watches from the sidelines.
Cards I've used that I'm not super sold on:
Future Sight - I always seem to have something better in my hand, but I'm also very excited when I can successfully get this card onto the battlefield. Mixed feelings to say the least. The interaction with Sensei's Divining Top is pretty dope though.
Hinder - With the tuck factor eliminated on commanders, now I feel like this is just an overcosted Counterspell.
Whip of Erebos - Lifegain is pretty necessary as much as we pay out, with cards like Bob and Reanimate, and the deck doesn't play any defense whatsoever, but the card slot, man, the card slot. This one is close...
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir - Doesn't fit the synergy in the least, but he's so broken and delicious. I keep cutting him, then putting him back in because I come to my senses. Thoughts?
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre - Ok two things, 1) massive self-hitting mill and 2) Cabal Coffers, plus a Bonus) Mana Drain for me. He does a lot and I look for his trigger everytime I'm milling myself. The trigger is a double-edged sword, since Snapcaster Mage and Yawg Win turn into dead draws once you shuffle the graveyard but I don't want to be afraid to tap my entire manabase with two Mesmeric Orbs on the field.
Arcanis the Omnipotent - Card draw is king in EDH, especially when you run broken cards and if you play blue. He's fantastically skilled and if I would ever remember to keep 2UU open, I would probably not even be mentioning him here, he'd be in the deck...
Cards in my sideboard that might be cool:
Trickbind - Combo-fest in my meta, plus cards like Terastodon piss me off.
Ob Nixilis, Unshackled - Again, meta call, but show me a meta that doesn't use fetches or tutors and I'll be there, bro.
Massacre Wurm - Perma-sideboard for him, usually have to be playing a Hazezon Tamar or similar commander to mainboard him.
Telepathy - Didn't know the true power of this card until I played into it, and it flipped the script bigtime. I want to use it, but what would you possibly cut?
Rhystic Study - This should be an automatic, especially if your pod is more than 2 opponents. I hate nothing more than NOT playing this, and having the guy next to me draw 36 cards off of his.
Exsanguinate - Seems like a legit sideboard card, though it doesn't make a ton of sense to Death Wish for it, lol
Death Wish - Sideboard fetcher, but that means you have to maindeck it...
Cunning Wish - Again, there aren't a ton of sweet instants that aren't already in the deck, but if I'm Wishboarding one, I might as well hit both.
No Mercy - I've yet to find the meta combination that convinces me this is the card I must have, but it seems like a valuable tool to have in the arsenal.
So as you can see, I've done quite a bit of work swapping, testing, adapting, personalizing and usually winning. You've created quite the monster deck, and don't sell yourself short, with the right tweaks, this deck could be insanely good, and it's always a lot of fun to play. I look forward to some input from you, as I've hit a wall with regards to add/drop.
Thing to prenote is A LOT of cards have been being swapped around and playtested for a radical overhaul soon.
[B]Memory Jar[/B]: This I can fully understand the skepticism. It's slow, yes. Since I'm including Silumgar's Command in the newest rendition of this deck, it is slightly better, but you pointing it out has revealed it as an old favorite before there were better mill cards. Remember, this deck was made in Innistrad originally ;D
[B]Shadow of Doubt[/B]: I'm still busy convincing myself. It was originally a spite include to fight the ridiculous ramp meta I'm a part of. I love it and the flavor is great, but I may swap it for Trickbind in it's slot, still countering many common ramps, fetches, as well as eldrazi titans.
[B]Rapid Hybridization[/B]: This is getting replaced by Murderous Cut, which is almost a strict upgrade. There will always be 4 cards to pitch, even if you don't necessarily want to. Black is generally easier to get as well.
[B]Visions of Beyond[/B]: I'm a huge fan of just cycling it sometimes. Even early game, using it as a cantrip to just cycle for U has saved me more than once. It combos with Academy Ruins and Volrath's Stronghold to get it now for only U more. More importantly, it's a bombshell if used by Yawgmoth's Will, Dralnu, Lich Lord, or Snapcaster Mage. I really reccomend it. Ancestral Recall is great but cannot be used when you absolutely need it now. Unlike you, I find myself running dry on hand size more than anything else.
[B]Dark Confidant[/B]: Will be replaced. He's one of the cards mentioned that will be removed for cheaper and more on flavor cards. He's fun, and in my build is honestly bonkers, but he's far from necessary. I'm probably gonna replace him with a Dark Deal.
[B]Phantasmal Image[/B] is easily one of the BEST cards in the deck, especially in a ETB Happy meta. When someone puffs out their chest and starts slamming big stuff down this lets you keep up VERY easily without breaking too much off what your plans for the turn were anyway. He is best used with Nemesis of Reason, but cards soon to be added also help a lot. His 2CMC also makes him a 2-cmc Shred Memory transmute target.
[B]Lazav, Dimir Mastermind[/b]: Check out post #157. He actually is removed but I haven't edited the main deck from it yet. Short version is he's in a parasitic relationship with mill, not a symbiotic. His awkward mana cost makes him also rough. He's a fun alternate commander for more aggressive play though!
[B]Dralnu, Lich Lord[/B]: Is a card that really depends on your meta. Some games I won't even play him because it's not worth it. Still, I love the card and it always delivers for me.
[B]Future Sight[/B] Is a fantastic card! But I would not recommend that here, since it's normally not going to help all that much without much topdeck control to couple with it. It works with Academy Ruins and Volrath's Stronghold beautifully though. It's good, but remember it's also 2UUU. If you were to use it again, I'd consider Magus of the Future for the body also, but I'm gonna pass on it.
[B]Sensei's Divining Top[/B]: Yeah, it's a staple. Yeah, it's good. But no, you probably don't need it.
[B]Hinder/Spell Crumple[/B]: Tuck factor is eliminated, but they're still good cards to handle versus decks that use their graveyards often also. Sometimes exile or tuck is still a harder zone for them to access. If you're not already, use Dissipate and Faerie's Trickery over these. Also, there's the Tunnel Vision Interaction to remember though.
[B]Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir[/B]: Every now and then you see the "Spirit of EDH" thing come around, and this is one of the biggest problems with the format. This, and Iona, Shield of Emeria. Both of these cards do one thing you should never do in magic. Completely take out the interactivity of the game. It essentially tells certain deck types they can't play magic anymore until someone nice enough to remove it for you comes along. Iona versus a mono colored deck is no less backbreaking than Teferi versus reactive control. I wouldn't run one in any casual deck simply on principle. [/ENDRANT]
[B]Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre[/B]: 1. That challenge is literally half the fun for me 2. I'm running Strip Mine and Tectonic Edge will be going in as well 3. I'm trying to un-expensive the deck :P. It's really unlikely the stars align and I can't get something out of my GY if I try.
[B]Arcanis the Omnipotent: He's one of my favorite cards in magic, actually. He was especially a bomb with [CARD]Necrotic Ooze. I'd like to use him again, actually.
[B]Trickbind[/B]: I actually ordered one. It's uses are infinite. Stopping Fetchlands, Eldrazi triggers, even ETB triggers. I'm certain it'll always be worth using.
[B]Ob Nixilis, Unshackled[/B]: I'm on the fence about it because 10 life is against milling, but my meta is getting REALLY out of hand with ramp, but the problem is it's mostly early game that it's its worst. So I'm not really sure what to do with that.
[B]Massacre Wurm[/B]: He's maindecked in my sedris deck (link below outdated also), and he has been a CONSISTENT bomb. I may include him but with Damnation, Cyclonic Rift, and Toxic Deluge I'm normally pretty covered for clearing the board. Only other one I'd consider would probably be Whelming Wave.
[B]Telepathy[/B]: Simply better in control. Also, I find that if others don't have good things, the others assume you do have good things. It's hyper casual at it's finest If you wanted to just play around with it, remove Visions of Beyond or something.
[B]Rhystic Study[/B]: A good way to get punched in the throat in my meta. It's a card if I see someone else having, I'll often gun for them on principle. You don't need it, but it is a good card. Your mileage may very, but for me it's mileage isn't very far
[B]Exsanguinate[/B]: Used innocently it's fine, but 99% of the time it's going to be used to try and win the game outright, and if you're in a position to do that, you're probably winning anyways. It's a win-more card at it's core, and Mind Grind is often just as easy to pull off.
[B]Death Wish[/B]: I love the card. It's flavor, it's use, it's all cool. Make sure you talk with your group obviously to figure out how the ruling is. For mine we use the 10 card wishboard rule. My deck is specifically No-infinite No-counter UB Mill, but I considered running this card to justify running some busted combo pieces. Throwing Rings of Brighthearth in the wish board sets up a few infinites, Morality Shift is an awesome flavor card to use when the mill isn't going your way, Relic of Progenitus as a panic button, etc. It would act as a swiss army knife to a multitude of Situations. I'm in favor of using it, but be creative with your board! That being said..
[B]Cunnin Wish[/B]: I disagree. It's cool, but most things you'd want to board won't be instants. Promise.
[B]No Mercy[/B]: certainly a deterrent! 4 mana seems a bit rough on the curve though, and you'll normally want to do other things rather than just set down a bubble. I'd consider Propaganda or Crawl Space if you're wanting a pillowfort aspect first. 3 is just a much more workable number.
As I told you there's a lot of tweaks happening to Wrexial. Here's some of the stuff that's been done or I've been trying out!
+Body Double
-Notion Thief
+Mystical Tutor
-Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
+Coalition Relic
-Diluvian Primordial
+Walking Atlas
-Doubling Cube
+Lord of the Void
-Necrotic Ooze
+Tectonic Edge
-Underground Sea
+Silumgar's Command
-Vesuva
+Altar of Dementia
-Bribery
Again, a lot of these are playtests. Some will be reverted, ofc.
Cards I recently ordered will be coming in soon, so I don't want to update too much before then! This order included
So expect to see some discussion on these as well!
So there you have it. If you get the chance, let me see your full list! You don't need to hypercard everything if you don't already have a thread made for it. My deck is undergoing a radical transformation to a quiet scheming deck into a much more front forward and aggressive milling that includes creatures like Raven Guild Master to offer a constant board presence early for the plotting wacky plans in the late game. I look forward to it
Thanks again for the support!
EDIT:
[B]Whip of Erebos[/B] is good, but I believe you're right that it may not be worth the card slot. I'm likely to remove it soon, but I do want to try Profane Momento, should I ever need more lifegain!
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I see that you really are moving this into a budget deck, which is cool. My deck is not budget friendly, as I run really expensive counter magic and lands. As with anything regarding deck building it's always a balance of "I don't want to be that guy" against "this card is too good not to use", especially with regards to cards like Top and Teferi.
I really like the explosive power of Morality Shift, but it would have to go in place of the Eldrazi, since it would just end up being an Elixir otherwise. I want all of my wishboard cards to be either panic button type cards or specific answer (usually both lol)
So far, though, I haven't seen too much difference in it's play level. The only cards I've really gotten rid of is Underground Sea, Dark Confidant, Bloodstained Mire, and Scalding Tarn. The lands just smooth things out really, and Dark Confidant is honestly a winmore card. The overall power isn't dropping of the deck. I won't be getting of any key cards like Crucible of Worlds or anything, just exploring lesser used options. I find that often lesser known cards wreck metas because they aren't prepared for it. So far, for example Szadek, Lord of Secrets and Crumbling Sactuary are both bombs. With the inclusion of Profane Momento, Altar of the Brood, Mindcrank, Memory Erosion and Raven Guild Master I'm more aggressively milling than ever. I don't have to rely on Mesmeric Orb so much to really get it in there. Inclusion of another manarock has also gone leaps and bounds in making sure that some of the new higher drops, like Szadek and Lord of the Void are still useful at all times.
I haven't updated the decklist yet because honestly, there are a LOT of changes going on. The deck overall is becoming much faster with high late game potential, but consistent throughout. No longer should I be durdling around the first few turns just trying to set up. It comes out as a threat early, but can support taking that heat a bit better too. If you haven't tried it yet, Crumbling Sanctuary has been a godsend in staving off aggro. Never drop it until you have a few proper engines to mill someone out, but buying a few extra turns with it is absolutely critical at times. and has won me the game more than once.
In reference to your deck building though, I try to avoid being that guy ever, and try to keep my "too good" cards to an absolute minimum. Iona is a purely competitive card that has no place in a more casual group, for example. As for the Rhystic, it's good, but you really have to question if you need it. I don't think my deck needs it because it consistently refills it's hand on it's own. It's for this same reason Necropotence was removed from an earlier build. I ALWAYS question staples, and make sure I'm running them because they're beneficial and synergistic to the deck, and not because they're just "goodstuff". With your deck being a lot more open with what kind of cards it's using overall how it's executed, I have no doubt that Top and Rhystic are bombshells that do well, however. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir I generally try to avoid unless I'm playing heavy control, because he does suck the interactivity from the game.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
The landbase in the deck is just about as perfect as I'm going to get it without diving into more fetches or insanely expensive lands, so I'm happy keeping it as is at least on the list.
The Primer will be facing a lot of upcoming changes, but the lands aren't one of them. The only major land that has been changed is I did remove Exotic Orchard for a Faerie's Conclave, which is more a means to keep my swords relevant than anything.
Again, lots and lots of neat changes coming up to look forward to. The deck is much more geared towards mill and less towards goodstuff. I seek to be the Mill resource, not the UB graveyard shenanigan deck.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Frankly, Whip was only there for an on-theme lifegain outlet. Every good deck should have at least one, but it was becoming sub par as few of my creatures are actually doing any kind of significant damage. The Momento, however, has the ability to cause incredible life swings very rapidly given the proper engines.
-Removed Torpor Orb for Trickbind
Torpor Orb was one of few cards in the deck specifically included as a silver bullet for my meta. However, the meta has changed with my recent move, and ETB isn't a major problem. However, trickbind handles many problems, from eldrazi triggers to a single use ETB counter. At the same CMC, this should do fine.
-Removed Reanimate for Raven Guild Master
I was really hesitant to remove Reanimate, but I've played at least 10 games now without it and honestly haven't missed it. Animate Dead can be argued to be worse, but being able to be tutored with Shred Memory is a great bonus. I may switch Animate Dead for Reanimate later, but for now this is where we stand. The Guild Master is a bombshell that drops early and punishes hard. With Sword of Body and Mind it's an absolute bomb.
-Removed Magus of the Jar for Dark Deal
Dark Deal is simply the new, black Windfall. Although it won't help me refill my hand, it still serves great purpose like all other windfalls, and offers yet another way to deliver the final draw blow. Being even lower on CMC only makes it better.
-Removed Increasing Ambition for Crumbling Sanctuary
I go in ebbs and tides in having lots of tutors and very few. I on the side now that I have too many. Most situations can be handled by having more cards rather than searching one outright. Currently though, I draw plenty so having a solid life raft like Crumbling Sanctuary is helpful. It's a scary card, but it does buy me multiple extra turns in situations I'd otherwise die.
-Removed Havengul Lich for Silumgar's Command
To be blunt, I don't get to use Havengul Lich as much as I'd like, and when I could I don't have creatures in the grave to fully abuse it. Silumgar's command offers two very relevant modes at all times, and for the first time in a *very* long time, a counterspell is now featured in the deck. Alongside trickbind, this should allow me to be a bit more reactive.
To reply to you, Lanust, I've almost completely eradicated damage to make it as attractive as possible to try and win through mill. In certain circumstances, absolutely go for the damage win, but previously too often I'd find myself without some kind of mill engine early and I'm just sitting. New agressive changes have made it much more consistent in at least getting the ball started, even if it's in small ways. Finishing someone off isn't normally an issue. Either exile their graveyard or force them to draw with a windfall, Cephalid Colosseum, or something. Often I don't have an issue with just letting them draw at upkeep. Keeping pressure on the graveyard with crypts or spellbombs is the easiest way to stop shenanigans like that.
I have included Silumgar's Command now, which offers protection from noncreature bombs like that. If you're looking for a second, I'd consider Muddle in the Mixture for it's double purposedness. Now, that won't stop cycling Decree of Pain, but Trickbind will. Hope these may help. I would consider upping your control package if your meta is a problem, however. My meta is mostly damage based, and counterspells often wouldn't help. I try to be as proactive as possible and exile problematic combo pieces before they even get the chance.
There's still many changes coming, but I'm being careful to do them only a few at a time as to know for sure if they're working or not. As always thanks for the input and keeping up
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
a) I have trouble closing games with mill. Perhaps its because I am still learning the tricks. I haven't had the chance to use sacrament yet for example and the tunnel vision combo just seems too clunky to me. The only time I did that was when I had 3 orbs out and killed the table.
b) I prefer more reactive approaches and frankly the absence of counters and of better card draw makes me uneasy. But then again with all the self mill I'm not sure it's worth including a counter suite.
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
What do you guys think of Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Sire of Stagnation. I made an entire EDH deck from Ulamog and I think that mill could easily be a late-game finisher. As for the Sire, passive mill in general is AWESOME and card draw is potentially INSANE!
As for BFZ, I am currently using Fathom Feeder, and Sire of Stagnation, and will use Ulamog, the CeasEless Hunger once I get one.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Removed Cards
-Mind Grind
Although this card is excellent for finishing up games, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth the same as Exsanguinate does. Feel free to run it, but I don't personally like it.
-Body Double
Slightly too bulky on the curve, and more often I want my own things instead of others, so Clever Impersonator was just better.
-Dark Confidant
It would be nice to still have, but it doesn't help me mill at all and it's just a lump of money that I could redistribute elsewhere. I really want to hammer in mill consistency and this was one of the first to make the cut.
-Phantasmal Image
Although a two mana clone is always nice, consistency is the key. And opening with a hand of four clones and nothing to clone isn't helping to mill. I'm sad to see it go but it's for the greater good.
-Necrotic Ooze
Forever on the fence, forever unsure about it.
-Geth, Lord of the Vault
Too many times Geth has sat in my hand and not been able to be of too much use. Too many times I've cast him and then really had just better things to do. Unlike Oona, Queen of the Fae, his ability requires specific mana and targets to do his job, and then more times than not anything I take really isn't helping so the mana would have been better used elsewhere. It's been fun Geth but your time has come.
-6 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
This is great at taking other people things, but I'm really trying to home in on milling people as a wincon, not as an avenue to beat the curve. Sorry Inky!
-Curse of the Swine
Pigify will be missed as well, but normally it doesn't help the field too much. 2/2s are still just as much a problem. If this were an instant, it would make the cut undoubtedly but until then I'm going to favor catch-all bounce cards.
-Toxic Deluge
A great card and a great boardwipe, but hurts quite a bit. I've decided to use Whelming Wave instead, as it gaurentees Wrexial, the Risen Deep and Nemesis of Reason to stay, and there is a good chance I can cast a few smaller creatures back out before Windfalling the rest away before my opponents can use it.
-Consuming Vapors
A great card but again I'm trying to move to more mill, and what control I do have I want to be at instant speed to increase the reactivity of the deck.
-Bribery
The same issue I had with Geth. Rarely is this helping me mill, making it just another goodstuff card that isn't helping the cause. I will miss it being a Naturalize by grabbing Acidic Slime though.
-Vamipiric Tutor
Often I can't use it as a true instant because I may mill the top card of my library on my upkeep, making this only work if I'm paying the mana that turn, then stunting my draw and losing two life. Now that may not seem too bad, but I sat down and looked at it and I really won't need that many tutors with a higher consistency of mill cards and draw, so this is getting the axe along with Mystical Tutor.
-Mystical Tutor
See Vampiric Tutor Above
-Rapid Hybridization
I've toyed around with this and Murderous Cut but ultimately I'm never happy with it. The real problems lie with indestructible creatures or creatures with shroud/hexproof and this aid's neither. In addition, the 3/3 is often worse for them to have than whatever they already had.
-Shadow of Doubt
I've really been trying to find more ways to hate on ramp and I had tried this card out for it but it's not enough. It may see play later in the future but for now it's going to rest.
-Shred Memory
Even with it's transmute being stronger than ever, I find that it's still awkward in that I'm never sure to use it as a tutor or to try and hold it if I need it. Ultimately, it was cut in favor of just more mill.
-Fact or Fiction
Once an obvious inclusion has been made obsolete in that I'm not using my own graveyard quite as heavily as before.
-Memory Plunder
Originally there for redundency on my commander's ability, it is awkward to cast still and often doesn't help the current situation. It's primary use was to get a Naturalize effect or a board wipe, but often i can get wrexial out with haste and solve the problem that way. I may eventually remove Silumgar's Command in favor of this, but not today.
-Copy Artifact
Still good at a 2CMC Sculpting Steel even if it does make a wonky enchantment-artifact, but I want to have more diversity in the types of mill rather than just cloning the one powerhouse over and over. I still have Clever Impersonator and Phyrexian Metamorph, so I still can should the need arise.
-Phyrexian Arena
Although a staple, there are better less painful ways to get card draw. With the inclusions of Fathom Feeder, Sire of Stagnation, Brainstorm and others, I don't see the need for this kind of card any longer.
-Doubling Cube
Although it served as one of my only ways to achieve big mana, it's slow, clunky, and has no place in the much faster version of the deck I have now. I'm going for consistency rather than explosiveness, and this card is about as explosive as you're going to get.
-Crucible of Worlds
Another staple getting the boot. Don't get me wrong, it's an excellent card, but there aren't a whole lot of situations it works in unless I'm already winning. The only three cards that really make myself mill is Mesmeric Orb, Dreamborn Muse, and Anvil of Bogarden, so the usefulness of the crucible is limited as it is. I still have Petrified Field in a pinch, and I may consider Grim Discovery if I find I need more recursion.
-Sword of Body and Mind
This may return one day, but overall it just wasn't doing enough to justify it's spot. Often the most it did was serve as a lightning rod for removal, as most staples do.
-Crumbling Sanctuary
This was removed a while ago, predating most of these changes, for the express reason that I often got myself killed because a lot more of my mill was parallel across the board. Now, that isn't as much the case and I'm waiting to see to what extent I get the advantage before putting this back in. We may see it return in the near future, stay tuned!
-Gilded Lotus
A great rock but nothing more. I've found that having more consistency and land dropping ever turn has helped more than getting ahead. There is a lot of hate on artifacts in my meta as well, so I'd perfer not to rely on artifacts for mana.
Added Cards
+Psychic Spiral
The much ignored killshot. I've been stringent for a long time to not run any "Failsafes" for flavor reasons, but if there was one way to save my graveyard this is is. Late game, this wraps it up and knocks out remaining players and cements your position on the board. Just be careful of it getting stolen!
+Clever Impersonator
This was pretty much a strict upgrade to Body Double and still achieved the usefulness of it and Copy Artifact combined. An obvious incluion.
+Merfolk Mesmerist
Initially I had thought about using the 4 drop version of this from the innistrad block, but hten I found this and it is perfect. It's a cheap blocking body at two mana and has a cheap and repeatable ability to do at instant speed. I often find myself with just one or two man left over, so it was an easy inclusion.
+Brain Freeze
My roommate convinced me to put this in and I've been loving it since. It punishes a player for a big explosive turn or just wraps up a Yawgmoth's Will beautifully.
+Telemin Performance
This card normally isn't to useful for the creature it actually gets, but it makes a body and will absolutely demolish a deck that doesn't run very many creatures. It's particularly nice against decks that run rampant with fatties, like my very own Sedris, the Traitor King deck, becasue you're normally guaranteed to even the playing field or at least get a solid blocker.
+Wipe Away
Continuing on a small subtheme of bounce+windfall, this is one of the best, even able to hit lands. The split second mechanic has it basically uncounterable and will even remove a pesky Elixir of Immortalitywithout fear of them being able to crack it.
+Altar of the Brood
Really I should have been runing this since release. I don't have any wacky combos with it, but Undead Alchemist and Oona, Queen of the Fae both tear it up with this.
+Memory Erosion
I had this card in the deck in the past, but never realized just how powerful that effect is. If another player is getting ahead, this hard punishes them for it. Even moreover, it adds drawbacks to cheap simple effects such as ramping that otherwise go unchecked. Quite a powerhouse and I'm glad to have it back
+Chronic Flooding
This card I wasn't too sure about at first, but three cards a turn does get hefty and I've found that most people will just choose to not use the land, making it just as good as a Sinkhole, which is just as fine. Getting this on an important land, such as a bounceland or filterland forces them to mill for just using mana, which is better than one would expect.
+Sphinx's Tutelage
This card is bonkers. Jace's Erasure was already decent but this doubles that and more. Combined with any Windfall effect you can easily chunk someones library for fifteen cards or upwards.
+Sire of Stagnation
Hurts them, helps you, punishes ramp, and has a good body for Phenax, while interestingly still giving devotion.
+Life's Finale
In a weird way, it does mill. Pulling three cards out makes it like a Buried Alive for your opponents. Generally speaking, that's not helpful because I don't have very many cards to nor do I want to reanimate opponents creatures anymore (usually, anyways), but I can dump Eldrazi Titans or other problem creatures in and then Tormod's Crypt or Nihil Spellbomb it with the trigger on the stack, making it more than *just* a board wipe. Quite the tech if I do say so myself.
+Anvil of Bogarden
This falls in with the Windfalls in that it doesn't mill, but it does get cards ultimately from the deck to the grave. It's parallel, forcing you to do it as well, but in exchange you no longer have a maximum hand size and you get card selection all the same. It's surprising how much a difference losing one more card a turn from your library can matter. Consistency is the goal here, and CPT (Cards per turn) matters!
+Crosstown Courier
This little guy may not appear much, but it's a 2/1 for two that has a Mindcrank built in, well at least for combat damage. I don't have many ways to pump him but he holds Sword of Body and Mind like a champion and offers early blocks if he cant swing in.
+Keening Stone
I need to stop whatever it is I'm smokin because this card should never leave this deck. Apologies for my temporary insanities.
+Altar of Dementia
I had toyed with this in the past but ultimately didn't have the creature concentration to make it worth it. Now that I have more creatures and a bit higher power curve, it is once again welcomed. It is a bummer that it says Power rather than Toughness, but it's still good to have in the event creatures are going to the grave anyways.
+Jace's Erasure
It's back, and better than ever with more card draw and windfalls. Getting this out with Sphinx's Tutelage at the same time can really lay the hate down on one individual or spread the love to the whole table.
+Whelming Wave
A card I've wanted to include for quite a long time. Tailor made for Wrexial himself, and by side effect Nemesis of Reason sticks around too. With as many Windfall effects as I have, this can easily be made permanent if need be, but will always open the path for Wrexial against a non U non B player.
+Fathom Feeder
This little guy turned out to be a powerhouse. The deathtouch makes him a great blocker as well as a nigh-unblockable swinger. The devoid ensures he can always block pro-color creatures, namely those with swords; The ingest is just nice pseudo mill that adds up, and the activated ability is welcome card draw, even if it is a 3UB dump, which has the added bonus of psuedo milling even more. Quite the house.
+Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker
A decently priced 2/4 flyer with Mind Funeral on hit. Repeatable, powerful. Exactly what we need.This really should have been in since it's release in Gatecrash.
+Soul Manipulation
I'm forever torn between using this and Perplex, but overall this card has two modes that are both very relevant at instant speed. Doing both just adds insult to injury and can really turn a tide against an otherwise huge problem.
+Shriekgiest
2 mana, 1/1, flies, mills cards. It's aggresive and offers one more flyer to the deck which is much needed. Often I just get pummeled in by fliers, but this will block at least one, even late game.
+Brainstorm
I'm not a huge fan of brainstorm as a whole, but in this deck it gets work done. It can be used to smooth out an awkward hand or more importantly hide two cards back on top of my libary in the event of a Windfall effect.
+Phenax, God of Deception
With more creatures and permanents comes our god back. I never realized just how easily he turns online, needing only two devotion plus himself and Wrexial. Once online, just between Phenax and Wrexial that is 15CPT, something that if left unanswered will quickly finish a game up.
+Szadek, Lord of Secrets
Though pricy, this man gets it done. Even from a full 92 card library (if somehow you pull off a turn 1 via planechase or something), it takes only 5 hits to sufficiently murder someone's library. In addition, with Phenax, God of Deception and Altar of Dementia, you can add insult to injury once more.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
I can understand the concern. I really didn't want to take Tezzeret the Seeker out, but tried it and I haven't really missed him much. With the inclusion of a lot more milling artifacts, such as Altar of Dementia and Altar of the Brood it is tempting to put him back in, and I may in the future. However, before it seemed the only thing he was really accomplishing was for the most part just making mana everywhere, and was detracting from my original goal. With the inclusion of Phenax, God of Deception, his ultimate is more relevant, because having every artfact just turn into [tap] mill five is likely a killshot to at least one player, and unless answered immediately, game ending. I'm not sure what I'd remove to put him back in though. Any suggestions?
That's an interesting thought. Shriekgiest was what I found at the time, and I liked that it was fast on the mill without investing too much mana. However, thinking on it now Mindshrieker is a better card late game for certain, however does require a heavier investment early game. Both supply a 1U flying blocker, but Mindshrieker could be pumped to kill a dragon or something with luck or enough mana. I will for certain try this out, and get back to you on that.
Thanks man! I had put it off for a long time, but really got to dig in and try a lot of changes for the big update, and I really do think I've upped the potency by quite a bit. The higher creature density is helping a lot but the more aggressive curve is starting milling really early resulting in getting beaten out of the game pretty fast, so I may be looking to figure that out. I'm thinking another board wipe such as Black Sun's Zenith since it's self recurring, and will weaken some creatures without killing them (good for pacifying creatures such as Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I've also been thinking of trying Dread Summons. In multiplayer this seems very good with Phenax or the zombie alchemist out.
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
The courier I can agree with. Having the cheap value creatures is very helpful, but I've found that Merfolk Mesmerist has been my favorite of them, just offering consistency.
Will definitely grab a Dread Summons soon.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
6 Wrexial, the Risen Deep
Creatures: 29
1 Hedron Crab
1 Sage of Epityr
2 Sygg, River Cutthroat
2 Lighthouse Chronologist
2 Skirsdag High Priest
2 Harbinger of the Tides
3 Cemetery Puca
3 Pestermite
3 Ambassador Laquatus
3 Callous Oppressor
3 Echo Mage
3 Wall of Frost
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Dimir Doppelganger
4 Wonder
4 Dreamborn Muse
4 Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
5 Chromeshell Crab
5 Mulldrifter
5 River Kelpie
5 Phenax, God of Deception
5 Consuming Aberration
5 Nemesis of Reason
5 Magus of the Future
6 Grave Titan
6 Geth, Lord of the Vault
6 Roil Elemental
6 Guile
7 Szadek, Lord of Secrets
1 Quicken
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Telling Time
2 Remand
2 Mana Leak
2 Counterspell
3 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Forbid
4 Memory Plunder
4 Foil
4 Mindbreak Trap
5 Archive Trap
Sorcery: 11
1 Preordain
1 Serum Visions
1 Ponder
1 Increasing Confusion
2 Train of Thought
2 Treasure Hunt
2 Sign of Blood
2 Mind Spring
2 Profane Command
3 Mind Funeral
5 Traumatize
Planeswalker: 4
3 Jace Beleren
5 Jace, Memory Adept
5 Liliana Vess
6 Sorin Markov
2 Declaration of Naught
3 Sphinx's Tutelage
Artifact: 1
4 Grimoire of the Dead
Land: 40
0 Island x19
0 Swampx8
0 Bojuka Bog
0 Creeping Tar Pit
0 Darkslick Shores
0 Dreadship Reef
0 Drowned Catacomb
0 Duskmantle, House of Shadow
0 Halimar Depths
0 Jwar Isle Refuge
0 Polluted Delta
0 Secluded Glen
0 Tainted Isle
0 Temple of Deceit
0 Terramorphic Expanse
I've taken a slightly different approach, focusing not just on the milling and then stealing from the graveyard, but also including a few cards to yoink their creatures while they're on the board. I'm willing to let that go if the balls-out mill approach works better in multiplayer though.
Modern:
GRB Jund BRG
RBU Grixis Delver UBR
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes W
GRB Punishing Jund BRG
GUR Canadian Threshold RUG
Commander:
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer GUR
One thing to know, mill is still a very bad win condition in EDH, especially for multiplayer. There has been a LOT of support added over the past few years to aide this, but I still wouldn't call it viable in any competitive meta. That's personally the reason I like playing Mill, because it is probably the hardest deckbuilding challenge you can do.
Now, with my Wrexial, I try my damndest not to kill with damage and really try to make sure it's mill that is the final cause of deck. The way your deck seems it does seem to take quite a bit of things, which is fine. Taking other people's things and beating their face in with them is both satisfactory and fun; My roommate has a Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge deck which literally has no card in the deck that doesn't copy or steal someone elses things, save for a few haste outlets, and it is a blast to both play and play against. It's always a fun matchup because if you're bringing a mill deck to the table against her, she can also play mill. Playing minotaur tribal? well, she is now too. It's an excellent deck archetype because it will never play the same two games in a row, offering insane replay value. For a long time, this was my only deck and I never really got bored of it, but again, you have to find what balance is right for you.
For the most part, everything looks pretty solid, and would probably work well for multiplayer even without tweaking. It seems you're *very* control heavy, which is fine, but even with that there is a few cards I'd definitely change
Lighthouse Chronologist - This card is a death sentence and will draw the entire table against you unquestionably.
Guile - another hatebear that no one likes to see. It's a powerful card but I don't think you have quite enough counters to really take the advantage of it you'd need.
Sage of Epityr - I love the guy but he's kind of bad to topdeck late game. Something like Raven Familiar at least puts cards directly in your hand with a flying body. With as many cantrips as you have, you shouldn't need this guy.
Skirsdag High Priest - He's great but I don't see very many ways in your deck to really trigger off morbid reliably, making him considerably weaker.
and maybe a one or two of your cantrips. You have quite a lot, and they are helpful, but you don't want to be cantripping into cantrips. It's not storm, so it's wasting card slots that could otherwise affect the board state. You could use a board wipe or two. Damnation is excellent if you have access to it, but otherwise Life's Finale and Whelming Wave have been two of my favorites for the deck for a while now, and both are less than 1$. Every EDH deck should have at least one board wipe.
Can't wait to hear back; It's always exciting to see someone else interested in playing mill.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR