Strategy:
This deck should be played as a control deck. Grind your opponent(s) down with removal and establish card advantage with the ETB and LTB effects of your creatures. After the first few exchanges, use Karador rebuy your monsters and start laying into your opponent(s). This deck can win without Karador ever being cast, especially against weaker opponents or favorable matchups. However, the deck is designed from the standpoint of having him available, so be prepared to defend Karador from tuck or mind control effects by sacrificing him to another creature or land in response, when possible.
I went for a more ETB-focused selection, hence the Enlisted Wurm and Puppeteer Clique. I figure if I have Karador on the field I can play them from the yard for their benefits over and over again. Other selections were cribbed from IceBear's build and my own deck-building ideas.
Here's my deck list for Karador EDH, created on Cockatrice.
33 lands seems really low. Have you had problems at that number?
Cards such as Genesis, Phyrexian Reclamation, Unburial Rights, Dread Return, etc. seems unnecessary with Karador. Why waste a slot returning them to your hand or reanimating them, when you can just cast them with Karador? Is there is something I am missing?
Not playing High Market or Phyrexian Tower seems like a mistake. Those two have been huge for me.
Cards such as Genesis, Phyrexian Reclamation, Unburial Rights, Dread Return, etc. seems unnecessary with Karador. Why waste a slot returning them to your hand or reanimating them, when you can just cast them with Karador? Is there is something I am missing?
In my experience, they are good because Karador tends to attract a lot of removal, so redundancy for your General's ability (more or less) is at least worthy of consideration. There have been many games where I was unable to keep Karador around for more than a turn at a time, and having those cards allowed me to abuse my graveyard even without him around. However, if he sticks around consistently in your gameplay experience, then I agree that those cards are definitely less desirable.
In my experience, they are good because Karador tends to attract a lot of removal, so redundancy for your General's ability (more or less) is at least worthy of consideration. There have been many games where I was unable to keep Karador around for more than a turn at a time, and having those cards allowed me to abuse my graveyard even without him around. However, if he sticks around consistently in your gameplay experience, then I agree that those cards are definitely less desirable.
Perhaps I am spoiled, as Karador almost never dies in my games. My opponents almost always let him sit there until they can find a tuck spell, but I just sac him to a land and recast him.
Why would you run a guildgate over a bounceland? That's so backwards. Bouncelands are card advantage and early discard chances for graveyard shenanigans.
Also Sadistic hypnotist allows for a combo if you really want 0 combos. How is armada wurm? He seems underwhelming to me. Also how is luminate primordial? You have a lot of good creature based removal already, and it is pretty pricey. Does he compare well with the existing removal package? I hesitated to try him because he felt redundant.
Why would you run a guildgate over a bounceland? That's so backwards. Bouncelands are card advantage and early discard chances for graveyard shenanigans.
Also Sadistic hypnotist allows for a combo if you really want 0 combos. How is armada wurm? He seems underwhelming to me. Also how is luminate primordial? You have a lot of good creature based removal already, and it is pretty pricey. Does he compare well with the existing removal package? I hesitated to try him because he felt redundant.
I appreciate that bouncelands have their advantages. I also know that my last four losses with this deck have been due to an early bounceland getting hit by Wasteland, Vindicate, Strip Mine, and Frost Titan, respectively. This deck is rather slow. Losing two land drops to a single card is catastrophic.
The only combo Sadistic Hypnotist would facilitate is having each opponent discard his or her hand. It would require at least two additional cards and be functionally identical to Myojin of Night's Reach. I had never considered it a combo. Perhaps considering it a "fair" combo is a better way to phrase it.
I do not have any experience with Armada Wurm. It isn't in the deck currently nor has it ever been.
Luminate Primordial is pretty pricy. However, the difference between "destroy a creature" and "exile a creature" has been huge. He's only been in the deck a few weeks and already taken down a number of Blightsteel Colossus. Vigilance has been surprisingly important. Being able to apply pressure while still being protected against surprise Maelstrom Wanderers and other hasted threats has been a factor in a few games.
I appreciate that bouncelands have their advantages. I also know that my last four losses with this deck have been due to an early bounceland getting hit by Wasteland, Vindicate, Strip Mine, and Frost Titan, respectively. This deck is rather slow. Losing two land drops to a single card is catastrophic.
The only combo Sadistic Hypnotist would facilitate is having each opponent discard his or her hand. It would require at least two additional cards and be functionally identical to Myojin of Night's Reach. I had never considered it a combo. Perhaps considering it a "fair" combo is a better way to phrase it.
I do not have any experience with Armada Wurm. It isn't in the deck currently nor has it ever been.
Luminate Primordial is pretty pricy. However, the difference between "destroy a creature" and "exile a creature" has been huge. He's only been in the deck a few weeks and already taken down a number of Blightsteel Colossus. Vigilance has been surprisingly important. Being able to apply pressure while still being protected against surprise Maelstrom Wanderers and other hasted threats has been a factor in a few games.
As a rule, if you have Llark/saffi/guide and anything that lets you sac a creature for free then you have unlimited ETB and LTB trigger combos in your deck. To remove the combo you have to cut Llark or sadistic hypnotist. (or anything that can get rid of a land, but that's wayyy more cards)
Also lol I must of looked at that other guy's list when I mentioned the Armada wurm. And after further testing I totally agree vigilance is often underrated also exile is really really strong compared to destroy (loving ashen rider in particular).
I understand the loop quite well. I suppose what I meant to say is that, other than serving as a sacrifice outlet, the only element Sadistic Hypnotist brings to the table is the discard. To be honest, Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter is a much better sacrifice outlet.
I'm probably not going to cut any of the cards in question. I've had all of them in the deck for some time without any issues. I make a point to not tutor for any of them, which has kept the games fair. I've only played the Saffi/Lark/Guide combo once in the past few months. Somebody thought it would be fun to Hinder/Tunnel Vision the graveyard-based deck.
This deck should be played as a control deck. Grind your opponent(s) down with removal and establish card advantage with the ETB and LTB effects of your creatures. After the first few exchanges, use Karador rebuy your monsters and start laying into your opponent(s). This deck can win without Karador ever being cast, especially against weaker opponents or favorable matchups. However, the deck is designed from the standpoint of having him available, so be prepared to defend Karador from tuck or mind control effects by sacrificing him to another creature or land in response, when possible.
The Deck:
1 Karador, Ghost Chieftain [Judge]Foil
Creatures
1 Acidic Slime [M10]Foil
1 Agent of Erebos [JOU]Foil
1 Angel of Despair [GPT]Foil
1 Angel of Finality [C13]
1 Ashen Rider [THS]Foil
1 Conclave Naturalists [ORI]Foil
1 Dimir House Guard [RAV]Foil
1 Disciple of Bolas [M13]Foil
1 Duplicant [MRD]Foil
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite [NPH]Foil
1 Eternal Witness [5DN]Foil
1 Farhaven Elf [SHM]Foil
1 Fauna Shaman [M11]Foil
1 Fierce Empath [SCG]Foil
1 Fleshbag Marauder [ALA]Foil
1 Harmonic Sliver [TSP]Foil
1 Hermit Druid [Judge]Foil
1 Indrik Stomphowler [DIS]Foil
1 Karmic Guide [ULG]Foil
1 Luminate Primordial [GTC]Foil
1 Merciless Executioner [FRF]Foil
1 Necrotic Sliver [PLC]Foil
1 Noxious Gearhulk [KLD]Foil
1 Oracle of Mul Daya [ZEN]Foil
1 Overseer of the Damned [C14]
1 Reclamation Sage [M15]Foil
1 Reveillark [MOR]Foil
1 Rune-Scarred Demon [M12]Foil
1 Saffi Eriksdotter [TSP]Foil
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder [CHK]Foil
1 Shadowborn Demon [M14]Foil
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One [NPH]Foil
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier [DTK]Foil
1 Solemn Simulacrum [MRD]Foil
1 Sun Titan [M11]Foil
1 Sunblast Angel [SOM]Foil
1 Teneb, the Harvester [PLC]Foil
1 Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter [CMD]
1 Wood Elves [7ED]Foil
1 Woodfall Primus [SHM]Foil
1 Yavimaya Dryad [TSP]Foil
1 Yavimaya Elder [USD]Foil
1 Yavimaya Granger [ULG]Foil
1 Aura Shards [INV]Foil
1 Birthing Pod [NPH]Foil
1 Damnation [PLC]Foil
1 Day of Judgment [ZEN]Foil
1 Demonic Tutor [Judge]Foil
1 Eladamri's Call [PLS]Foil
1 Eldritch Evolution [EMN]Foil
1 Evolutionary Leap [ORI]Foil
1 Greater Good [9ED]Foil
1 Mana Crypt [Judge]Foil
1 Oblivion Stone [MRD]Foil
1 Pernicious Deed [APC]Foil
1 Rout [INV]Foil
1 Sol Ring [Judge]Foil
1 Survival of the Fittest [Judge]Foil
1 Wrath of God [7ED]Foil
Land
1 Bayou [CE]
1 Bojuka Bog [WWK]Foil
1 Canopy Vista [BFZ]Foil
1 Command Tower [Judge]Foil
1 Fetid Heath [EVE]Foil
1 Forest [UNH]Foil
1 Forest [UNH]Foil
1 Forest [UNH]Foil
1 Forest [UNH]Foil
1 Godless Shrine [GPT]Foil
1 Grim Backwoods [DKA]Foil
1 High Market [MMQ]Foil
1 Isolated Chapel [ISD]Foil
1 Krosan Verge [JUD]Foil
1 Marsh Flats [ZEN]Foil
1 Miren, the Moaning Well [SOK]Foil
1 Murmuring Bosk [MOR]Foil
1 Myriad Landscape [C14]
1 Overgrown Tomb [RAV]Foil
1 Phyrexian Tower [USG]
1 Plains [UNH]Foil
1 Plains [UNH]Foil
1 Plains [UNH]Foil
1 Plains [UNH]Foil
1 Sandsteppe Citadel [KTK]Foil
1 Savannah [CE]
1 Scrubland [CE]
1 Sunpetal Grove [M10]Foil
1 Swamp [UNH]Foil
1 Swamp [UNH]Foil
1 Swamp [UNH]Foil
1 Swamp [UNH]Foil
1 Temple Garden [RAV]Foil
1 Temple of Malady [JOU]Foil
1 Temple of Silence [THS]Foil
1 Twilight Mire [EVE]Foil
1 Verdant Catacombs [ZEN]Foil
1 Windswept Heath [ONS]Foil
1 Wooded Bastion [SHM]Foil
1 Woodland Cemetery [ISD]Foil
EDH - Ghave, Guru of Spores
EDH - Rafiq of the Many
EDH - Roon of the Hidden Realm
New version has more card advantage and more removal.
EDH - Ghave, Guru of Spores
EDH - Rafiq of the Many
EDH - Roon of the Hidden Realm
- Primeval Titan
- Forest
- Plains
+ Slum Reaper
+ Golgari Guildgate
+ Selesnya Guildgate
EDH - Ghave, Guru of Spores
EDH - Rafiq of the Many
EDH - Roon of the Hidden Realm
1 Karador, Ghost Chieftain
CREATURES
1 Acidic Slime
1 Angel of Despair
1 Archon of Justice
1 Armada Wurm
1 Bone Shredder
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Divinity of Pride
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Enlisted Wurm
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Eternal Witness
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Fierce Empath
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Genesis
1 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1 Karmic Guide
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Mindslicer
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reveillark
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Shriekmaw
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sun Titan
1 Terastodon
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Birthing Pod
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
SORCERIES
1 Buried Alive
1 Damnation
1 Dread Return
1 Exhume
1 Farseek
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Nature's Lore
1 Rout
1 Unburial Rites
1 Vindicate
INSTANTS
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Grisly Salvage
1 Mortify
1 Oblation
1 Putrefy
1 Swords to Plowshares
ENCHANTMENTS
1 Aura Shards
1 Death's Presence
1 Grave Pact
1 Martyr's Bond
1 Pattern of Rebirth
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
PLANESWALKERS
1 Liliana Vess
LANDS
3 Forest
3 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Bayou
1 Command Tower
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Godless Shrine
1 Grim Backwoods
1 Fetid Heath
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Marsh Flats
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Savannah
1 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Scrubland
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Temple Garden
1 Temple of the False God
1 Twilight Mire
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Woodland Cemetery
I went for a more ETB-focused selection, hence the Enlisted Wurm and Puppeteer Clique. I figure if I have Karador on the field I can play them from the yard for their benefits over and over again. Other selections were cribbed from IceBear's build and my own deck-building ideas.
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Club Flamingo Wins: 10
----------------------------
EDH Decks
BG Vicious Varolz | RW Jor Kadeen, the Mean Machine | RG Atarka: Muh_Dragons.dec (WIP) | WU Brago, Blink Eternal (WIP)
----------------------------
33 lands seems really low. Have you had problems at that number?
Cards such as Genesis, Phyrexian Reclamation, Unburial Rights, Dread Return, etc. seems unnecessary with Karador. Why waste a slot returning them to your hand or reanimating them, when you can just cast them with Karador? Is there is something I am missing?
Not playing High Market or Phyrexian Tower seems like a mistake. Those two have been huge for me.
Also, your deck list has 101 cards.
EDH - Ghave, Guru of Spores
EDH - Rafiq of the Many
EDH - Roon of the Hidden Realm
EDH - Ghave, Guru of Spores
EDH - Rafiq of the Many
EDH - Roon of the Hidden Realm
EDH - Ghave, Guru of Spores
EDH - Rafiq of the Many
EDH - Roon of the Hidden Realm
In my experience, they are good because Karador tends to attract a lot of removal, so redundancy for your General's ability (more or less) is at least worthy of consideration. There have been many games where I was unable to keep Karador around for more than a turn at a time, and having those cards allowed me to abuse my graveyard even without him around. However, if he sticks around consistently in your gameplay experience, then I agree that those cards are definitely less desirable.
Perhaps I am spoiled, as Karador almost never dies in my games. My opponents almost always let him sit there until they can find a tuck spell, but I just sac him to a land and recast him.
EDH - Ghave, Guru of Spores
EDH - Rafiq of the Many
EDH - Roon of the Hidden Realm
Out
In
EDH - Ghave, Guru of Spores
EDH - Rafiq of the Many
EDH - Roon of the Hidden Realm
Also Sadistic hypnotist allows for a combo if you really want 0 combos. How is armada wurm? He seems underwhelming to me. Also how is luminate primordial? You have a lot of good creature based removal already, and it is pretty pricey. Does he compare well with the existing removal package? I hesitated to try him because he felt redundant.
I appreciate that bouncelands have their advantages. I also know that my last four losses with this deck have been due to an early bounceland getting hit by Wasteland, Vindicate, Strip Mine, and Frost Titan, respectively. This deck is rather slow. Losing two land drops to a single card is catastrophic.
The only combo Sadistic Hypnotist would facilitate is having each opponent discard his or her hand. It would require at least two additional cards and be functionally identical to Myojin of Night's Reach. I had never considered it a combo. Perhaps considering it a "fair" combo is a better way to phrase it.
I do not have any experience with Armada Wurm. It isn't in the deck currently nor has it ever been.
Luminate Primordial is pretty pricy. However, the difference between "destroy a creature" and "exile a creature" has been huge. He's only been in the deck a few weeks and already taken down a number of Blightsteel Colossus. Vigilance has been surprisingly important. Being able to apply pressure while still being protected against surprise Maelstrom Wanderers and other hasted threats has been a factor in a few games.
EDH - Ghave, Guru of Spores
EDH - Rafiq of the Many
EDH - Roon of the Hidden Realm
Deck
In: Rune-Scarred Demon
Out: Stonecloaker
Planechase
In: The Maelstrom
Out: Astral Arena
EDH - Ghave, Guru of Spores
EDH - Rafiq of the Many
EDH - Roon of the Hidden Realm
In:
Out:
EDH - Ghave, Guru of Spores
EDH - Rafiq of the Many
EDH - Roon of the Hidden Realm
Reveillark + Karmic guide or Saffi eriksdotter + Sadistic hypnotist isn't just unlimited discard it is unlimited reanimation of 2 powers and under. Acidic slime would lando everyone, or draw like wall of omens, wall of blossoms, or solemn simulacrum in the graveyard would let you draw into a combo piece and then win if you have mana to cast it. Wood elves in grave might even give you the mana to play the combo piece.
A harvester of souls or soul of the harvest on the battlefield would draw it too. Or if you have Karmic guide AND saffi eriksdotter, then you can also combo out with sylvan primordial, archon of justice, ashen rider or angel of despair.
As a rule, if you have Llark/saffi/guide and anything that lets you sac a creature for free then you have unlimited ETB and LTB trigger combos in your deck. To remove the combo you have to cut Llark or sadistic hypnotist. (or anything that can get rid of a land, but that's wayyy more cards)
Also lol I must of looked at that other guy's list when I mentioned the Armada wurm. And after further testing I totally agree vigilance is often underrated also exile is really really strong compared to destroy (loving ashen rider in particular).
I'm probably not going to cut any of the cards in question. I've had all of them in the deck for some time without any issues. I make a point to not tutor for any of them, which has kept the games fair. I've only played the Saffi/Lark/Guide combo once in the past few months. Somebody thought it would be fun to Hinder/Tunnel Vision the graveyard-based deck.
EDH - Ghave, Guru of Spores
EDH - Rafiq of the Many
EDH - Roon of the Hidden Realm
EDH - Ghave, Guru of Spores
EDH - Rafiq of the Many
EDH - Roon of the Hidden Realm
EDH - Ghave, Guru of Spores
EDH - Rafiq of the Many
EDH - Roon of the Hidden Realm