Are you asking if there are budget replacements for these cards? Your wording is a little confusing for me lol
Hey thanks for the help guys! Yeah I was wondering a). good replacements and b). which ones are most important to stick with the original rather than go budget. The situation is I plan on upgrading them gradually, but I would like to start upgrading them where they will make the most positive impact.
I have a kinda cobbled together list at the moment but it's not too bad, I will post it in a few minutes so you can take a looksy and tell me what you think!
So I realize that the mana base probably needs some re-tooling, I just haven't paid super-close attention to it recently cause I'm planning on making some adjustments to the cards soon. I have a Maze of Ith and a Kor Haven on the way in the mail, and a Survival of the Fittest and a Sylvan Library that will get here soon.
I have a feeling I might end up making some major changes after being able to try it out, I haven't been able to really practice it since the beginning of the year, only against my wife playing a halfway put together Mimeoplasm, which is a strange match-up as it is.
which will leave me at roughly what you're running, minus the cards I asked about subbing for budget options. But I probably won't purchase these until I try out what I have against a real playgroup and feel out what I feel like it needs.
Anyways, thanks again, any thoughts/comments/ideas are more than welcome!!
Rhaki. Popping in because I've been looking at your deck and wondering if there were elements of it that I could include in my Jarad. I feel like we're similar enough decks that there's got to be something I could pick up.
So I realize that the mana base probably needs some re-tooling, I just haven't paid super-close attention to it recently cause I'm planning on making some adjustments to the cards soon. I have a Maze of Ith and a Kor Haven on the way in the mail, and a Survival of the Fittest and a Sylvan Library that will get here soon.
I have a feeling I might end up making some major changes after being able to try it out, I haven't been able to really practice it since the beginning of the year, only against my wife playing a halfway put together Mimeoplasm, which is a strange match-up as it is.
which will leave me at roughly what you're running, minus the cards I asked about subbing for budget options. But I probably won't purchase these until I try out what I have against a real playgroup and feel out what I feel like it needs.
Anyways, thanks again, any thoughts/comments/ideas are more than welcome!!
This is a very interesting build. There is a lifegain subtheme in here that I'm not sure if I like or not lol I mean its not a bad thing to have I just think it's kind of weird to put a lifegain subtheme in here WITHOUT a way to utilize it. I like Jarad, I think thats an awesome idea, but I think if you have some lifegain stuff in here you need to have something like Sanguine Blood to make your lifegain dangerous, and not just like a stall tactic ya know?
Cards I don't like or think they have better replacements for: Rampant growth -> Farseek. Not expensive and all around better Golgari Signet- Having 1 signet seems redundant to me. I'd much rather see a Wayfarer's Bauble
I wouldn't add birthing pod with the lifegain subtheme just to make sure you aren't trying to do too much in the deck. Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts* Sunblast Angel*
* I think these 2 cards should go first and foremost. I dont like a 7 drop with no immediate impact, or a 6 drop that could potentially destroy YOUR creatures. These are definitely the first to go when you get Desecration Demon and probably Erebos, god of the dead.
Also before you buy all of those cards, make sure you have a spot for them in the deck. I would proxy them if your play group will let you since money isn't a huge resource right now, and test some things out.
EDIT : FRom this list:
Birthing Pod, Solemn Simulacrum, Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, Mimic Vat, Sewer Nemesis, Krosan Grip, Terastodon, Lotus Cobra, Ajani, Mentor of Heroes.
I think Ajani, Krosan GRip, Lotus Cobra, Solemn Simulacrum are all very good candidates for this deck. Ajani is good if you keep hte creature count high, I had him in and he did great, then I started lowering the creature count so he had to go.
ALSO ONE MORE THING: YOU NEEEEEEED DISCIPLE OF BOLAS. It does everything in this deck we want it too, that is a definite card to add for sure.
Great advice thanks!! I'm sure some of this might be more obvious to me if I was actually playing it at all I will post next week after I get my butt to EDH night finally
Yeah I believe I saw that I was missing a good chunk of my optimal dream build cards at the very beginning (seriously I probably had 1/2 of the good stuff I have now) so I had a sizeable lifegain theme in there cause I felt like it. Then as I've been upgrading it's been whittled down to the point I might just be better off taking it out altogether...
DEFINITELY need Disciple, thanks for pointing him out! And I mean he's worth, what, a quarter, so no big at all. I actually do have a Farseek and Wayfarer's so those will be subbed in today!
Good advice on the proxies, I will def utilize those before purchasing.
I got my Survival and Sylvan Library today, can't wait to use 'em, they definitely seem irreplaceable!
Hey! Yeah, we are swinging for the same team (power to the dumpster divers). I mean, Living Death as a win con? Because you don't have white, you can run more graveyard engines than I can. I do like your creature suite. I think you maybe should consider the Life from the Loam engine, just with the number of lands you run and its ability to fill the yard. Besides that, you should definetly get in with Massacre Wurm. That card is super real and the only reason I'm not running it is because I have Elesh Norn, but that card would be in the slot otherwise.
I'm so glad to see everyone collaborating! This is awesome! I recently was looking at Dragonlord Ojutai as a commander and I thought, a tempo dragon is super strong in commander. I wonder, what cards can we add in our colors that can give us a tempo edge? Thoughts?
I will check out Massacre Wurm. I suspect it's not great in my meta simply because there are less creatures and more combos. There is one deck who will take a big hit from it, a Momir Vig Bearforce deck that sometimes goes hard on its life and plays pretty much only X/1s through X/3s.
Hmmm against combo, usually I use white cards like Hushwing Gryff. I would probably run Krosan Grip even though it isn't a creature, and maybe Sudden Death, but you run both of those. I've been considering running them against the combo decks in my meta, and I may just do that. Besides that, instant speed reanimation targeting a creature that can remove a combo piece or disrupt a combo piece can be something to look into it. It is a little hard in B/G, just because you don't have white which is the main hatebear color. You just have to focus on bleeding them out first before they can go ham.
Hey thanks for the reply! Yeah it seems that Iona is a win more type of card, as I rarely tutor for her anymore as I try to go for the win most of the time. Should I replace it with Beacon of Unrest? Currently I have very limited ways of grabbing back my artifacts (Crucible of Worlds) from the grave, and it seems that I should add in a card to do that. Thoughts on this change?
@ Darth Caedus, some good ramp cards I would recommend would be Nature's Lore and Skyshroud Claim. These land comes in untapped so they are great at any time. They run great with shocklands and other lands that share subtypes of Forest such as Dryad Arbor and Murmuring Bosk
Yeah it seems that Iona is a win more type of card, as I rarely tutor for her anymore as I try to go for the win most of the time. Should I replace it with Beacon of Unrest? Currently I have very limited ways of grabbing back my artifacts (Crucible of Worlds) from the grave, and it seems that I should add in a card to do that. Thoughts on this change?
Beacon of unrest is a great card.
Hows altar of dementia working out for you? I did run that card but It fell out of favro quick when i needed an answer for something or some tempo gaining and I draw this and i get pissed lol
Also why triskelion? Regrowth is also a card you can consider if you need another way to get back whatever you want
@Rhakee- I'm actually trying to reestablish my tempo in my deck lol been looking at a lot of stuff lately, playtesting against my brother's Riku deck
@Rhakee- I'm actually trying to reestablish my tempo in my deck lol been looking at a lot of stuff lately, playtesting against my brother's Riku deck
Grave Pact effects are probably super great against Riku, if he is running it creature heavy. If he is spell slinging, then you can bring in Aven Mindsensor or Rule of Law.
I will most likely try to add Beacon of Unrest into my deck, however its a split between that card and Yawgmoth's Will. Yawg's Will is definitely super powerful and great to draw at any time of the play. Beacon is great to have also, but so far testing in a new route. My friend yesterday helped me modify my deck, so I will be playtesting a different build, I will have the updated list on here sooner or later.
So far Altar of Dementia hasn't been a dead draw for me at any time, I can mill myself if I ever needed to and it's great against my meta in general because we have so much tutoring. It stops the Mystical Tutor and Enlightened Tutor pretty much whenever I know someone is going to attempt it. I have Triskelion in the build for the classic Mike/Trike two card combo, but it can be reliable in itself by just having it ping and reanimate later again. It also goes off with Karmic Guide and Reveillark when its in the grave and can sac itself. I totally forgot about Regrowth, if I have room in the deck I will definitely keep that in mind, but the deck is really tight as is, so having quite a bit of a hard time to decide what to cut out.
I will most likely try to add Beacon of Unrest into my deck, however its a split between that card and Yawgmoth's Will. Yawg's Will is definitely super powerful and great to draw at any time of the play. Beacon is great to have also, but so far testing in a new route. My friend yesterday helped me modify my deck, so I will be playtesting a different build, I will have the updated list on here sooner or later.
So far Altar of Dementia hasn't been a dead draw for me at any time, I can mill myself if I ever needed to and it's great against my meta in general because we have so much tutoring. It stops the Mystical Tutor and Enlightened Tutor pretty much whenever I know someone is going to attempt it. I have Triskelion in the build for the classic Mike/Trike two card combo, but it can be reliable in itself by just having it ping and reanimate later again. It also goes off with Karmic Guide and Reveillark when its in the grave and can sac itself. I totally forgot about Regrowth, if I have room in the deck I will definitely keep that in mind, but the deck is really tight as is, so having quite a bit of a hard time to decide what to cut out.
Nice! I like how the deck looks man, it has a lot of interaction that looks decent against multiple matchups
@Rhakee- I'm actually trying to reestablish my tempo in my deck lol been looking at a lot of stuff lately, playtesting against my brother's Riku deck
Grave Pact effects are probably super great against Riku, if he is running it creature heavy. If he is spell slinging, then you can bring in Aven Mindsensor or Rule of Law.
I'm working to build it up against more control based decks that have those EXPLODING turns. Looking at getting Rule of law, also have gaddock teeg to put into the deck and I recently obtained Volrath's Stronghold AND kor Haven. SUPER excited
I been wondering if I should build another side deck for Teneb. I really love the interactions and flexibility that his colors gives. With my current meta should I try build a more control version of him? As it stands my deck is very combo oriented but it gets stopped hard if three people starts to focus me down
As a side note I was able to win 8 matches out of the 12 I played last week at my LGS!
@Rutherjc do you have room to incorporate Sylvan Scrying? Its a great card, way better than Expedition Map but do you always need the land you will tutor for?
I been wondering if I should build another side deck for Teneb. I really love the interactions and flexibility that his colors gives. With my current meta should I try build a more control version of him? As it stands my deck is very combo oriented but it gets stopped hard if three people starts to focus me down
As a side note I was able to win 8 matches out of the 12 I played last week at my LGS!
@Rutherjc do you have room to incorporate Sylvan Scrying? Its a great card, way better than Expedition Map but do you always need the land you will tutor for?
My deck started as a beat face deck, now its almost control but with b pod it makes it midrange lol. I never liked combo, never have and never will. We have one guy in the playgroup that ALWAYS plays combo... when we know hes using the decks we aim at him first lol
Honestly thats the tough part about it playing combo, its easy to catch hate when you win, plain and simple. I think that making 2 versions of him is good if you're up for it but man that sounds taxing and pricey lol
congrats on the win streak though thats pretty awesome.
I demonic tutor'ed for a read the bones in that game and it ended in my favor when i scryed away 2 bad things and drew into sheoldred and a path to exile lol i didn't want to have 5 mana unspent for a turn because i know how quickly a mimeoplasm deck can turn around, applied pressure was key during that game.
Hey guys, bumping back to life lol needing to get an ancient tomb for the deck no doubt, temple of the false gods is annoying when you want the mana early game.
Also need a sac outlet now that i have volrath in the board it would be really great to put either viscera seer or altar of dementia back in. Trying to find room is difficult though lol
I've changed my list since the last time I updated, but its going to be almost a week before I have free time to write it down lol I added back in a 4 mana sweeper, and removed some spot removal for other things. Fine tuning and such. Hope everyone is doing great!
Hey everyone! I'm sorry I have been absent form the thread for a while. I haven't played that much Magic in the past month and have been a little busy running around and taking care of family. Regardless, I am excited to play Teneb for the League month of June. This will give me plenty of games to see how the deck is evolving and consider some of the new stuff coming in with Origins. How is everyone? How has your game plays been?
Also been super busy, having three jobs suck. Can't wait for tomorrow though as there is a weekly commander tourney at where I'm at. I won the last one so it was pretty damn great. So far the only problems I have with my Tenebu deck is against players with pure control generals, i.e. Oloro, Ageless Ascetic. I have to either combo out fast or win through attrition.
In the last game I played I was going against a pod of Sedris, the Traitor King, Maelstrom Wanderer, and an Azami, Lady of Scrolls. Both the Sedris player and my grave were full with around 30 cards deep, he didn't have any of his combo pieces in the grave so I ended up Living Death my Mike Trike combo. In a weird chain of events (I forgot how it exactly happened), the Sedris player stole my Mikaeus with the help of the Maelstrom Wanderer player and I had to resort in using Buried Alive to put in Reveillark and Karmic Guide in my grave and flashback Unburial Rites to end the game.
Today I was thinking about evasion and how to get Teneb through to set his trigger off. Shizo, Death's Storehouse came to mind. This is a card I've been struggling with a lot lately, because it is one of these lands that isn't useful when it is out, because there is a artifact/black creature that can block, or I never see it when I need it. But lately, I have been able to go off with Teneb but no way to make him connect.
I suppose there are two questions I'm asking. One: what are some good ways of getting Teneb through to a player. Two: I want to test Shizo, but am having a trouble taking out a land. I love the 3x3x3 basic land ratio, just because it helps overcome non-basic land hate. I was considering Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to go, since I don't have Sheoldred or Coffers. It does fix colorless lands, but Chromatic Lantern does it better. Thoughts?
Hey guys! I've been absent for awhile, just been busy with life. Teneb has been doing pretty good for me lately. Birthing Pod has been doing great. I just need a sac outlet added so i can really abuse Volrath's Stronghold, I freakin LOVE this card guys. It can do some many ridiculous things for one game its seriously a wonder to my why I waited this lone to get the damn thing lol
I'm almost postitive that chromatic lantern has made its way into my deck now, and its been a great help. I've also cut the base down to 36 lands, and trimmed my spot removal for just all around better stuff.
Now about the Fear land, I like it but I don't like it. there is a lot of black in my meta so that card for teneb would be lack luster to say the least. Urborg has helped me out a lot but thats also because im heavy black as well as run Sheoldred.
One question I have for you is how do you like Seedborn Museis there an interaction with seedborn that I'm not seeing, or do you just use it for the untap so you can have blockers when you attack?
Also how do you like Fiend hunter for the deck?
Hey guys! I've been absent for awhile, just been busy with life. Teneb has been doing pretty good for me lately. Birthing Pod has been doing great. I just need a sac outlet added so i can really abuse Volrath's Stronghold, I freakin LOVE this card guys. It can do some many ridiculous things for one game its seriously a wonder to my why I waited this lone to get the damn thing lol
I'm almost postitive that chromatic lantern has made its way into my deck now, and its been a great help. I've also cut the base down to 36 lands, and trimmed my spot removal for just all around better stuff.
Now about the Fear land, I like it but I don't like it. there is a lot of black in my meta so that card for teneb would be lack luster to say the least. Urborg has helped me out a lot but thats also because im heavy black as well as run Sheoldred.
One question I have for you is how do you like Seedborn Museis there an interaction with seedborn that I'm not seeing, or do you just use it for the untap so you can have blockers when you attack?
Also how do you like Fiend hunter for the deck?
I have missed you old friend.
I'm so glad those upgrades are working for you!
I think through my testing, I decided to give Rogue's Passage another shot. It is a little dicey, but I think in a grindy game when I have the mana open, it will always be better. The change I am thinking of is: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for Rogue's Passage
Urborg doesn't have any "inherent synergy" in this build. It is stronger in a deck with Sheoldred or Filth. We'll see how this plays out for now.
Seedborn hasn't been doing much lately, but with the addition of Winding Canyons she can potentially be a very powerful tool. Her best use without setup is to dump out creatures on your turn, then clock out your removal spells during other player's turns. I wish we had more flash creatures to take advantage of her. So far, she isn't that great, but she's good enough to stay in, if that makes sense.
Fiend Hunter is fantastic. He is great removal and has some really gross interactions with Sun Titan and other reanimation spells. Running Fiend Hunter kind of wants me to play [/c]Restoration Angel[/c], I just don't know what to take out for her... ha, maybe Seedborn Muse.
***
Also, we have a new Teneb player joining the train. emecito23 is currently working with me to build a budget version of Teneb for all the new and beginning players. Our established budget is between 100-150 dollars. If anyone has an suggestions on good, strong, and cheap cards, feel free to shout them out!
In other news, I haven't seen much in the Origins spoilers, but I am getting excited with the power level we're seeing. I'm sure we will encounter some game changers for this deck.
Hey guys! I've been absent for awhile, just been busy with life. Teneb has been doing pretty good for me lately. Birthing Pod has been doing great. I just need a sac outlet added so i can really abuse Volrath's Stronghold, I freakin LOVE this card guys. It can do some many ridiculous things for one game its seriously a wonder to my why I waited this lone to get the damn thing lol
I'm almost postitive that chromatic lantern has made its way into my deck now, and its been a great help. I've also cut the base down to 36 lands, and trimmed my spot removal for just all around better stuff.
Now about the Fear land, I like it but I don't like it. there is a lot of black in my meta so that card for teneb would be lack luster to say the least. Urborg has helped me out a lot but thats also because im heavy black as well as run Sheoldred.
One question I have for you is how do you like Seedborn Museis there an interaction with seedborn that I'm not seeing, or do you just use it for the untap so you can have blockers when you attack?
Also how do you like Fiend hunter for the deck?
I have missed you old friend.
I'm so glad those upgrades are working for you!
I think through my testing, I decided to give Rogue's Passage another shot. It is a little dicey, but I think in a grindy game when I have the mana open, it will always be better. The change I am thinking of is: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for Rogue's Passage
Urborg doesn't have any "inherent synergy" in this build. It is stronger in a deck with Sheoldred or Filth. We'll see how this plays out for now.
Seedborn hasn't been doing much lately, but with the addition of Winding Canyons she can potentially be a very powerful tool. Her best use without setup is to dump out creatures on your turn, then clock out your removal spells during other player's turns. I wish we had more flash creatures to take advantage of her. So far, she isn't that great, but she's good enough to stay in, if that makes sense.
Fiend Hunter is fantastic. He is great removal and has some really gross interactions with Sun Titan and other reanimation spells. Running Fiend Hunter kind of wants me to play [/c]Restoration Angel[/c], I just don't know what to take out for her... ha, maybe Seedborn Muse.
***
Also, we have a new Teneb player joining the train. emecito23 is currently working with me to build a budget version of Teneb for all the new and beginning players. Our established budget is between 100-150 dollars. If anyone has an suggestions on good, strong, and cheap cards, feel free to shout them out!
In other news, I haven't seen much in the Origins spoilers, but I am getting excited with the power level we're seeing. I'm sure we will encounter some game changers for this deck.
It's good to be back buddy lol I'll take a pic of my deck list tomorrow and try to seriously get it typed up. One card I accidentally took out that will find it's way back in is Silence the believers. I love this card and have no idea how long it's been missing out of the deck lol moving on now.
Let me know how you like rogue's passage. I've been considering it as well to make an unblockable.
I would love to find a space for fiend hunter, so once I get it typed up we can talk about potential spots for it, sun titan recursion has always been a top favorite strategy for any deck with white in it, for a very good reason lol
Thats exciting about the new member, WELCOME ABOARD! :), and about the budget build! I started in budget as im sure a lot of people did so i Would love to look through my cards and name off some good ones to consider, or at least food for thought anyways lol
Geth, lord of the vault! great fun card as I've used in the past Angelic Arbiter Great flyer with a very handy ability. terastodon extremely budget and a huge reanimator target as well, great for walker/enchantment hate. sepuchral primordial card ive honestly been considering to add into the deck. Great card and extremely cheap crown of convergence I used this card in many g/W budget builds. Good if you have tokens as well as filtering for the good stuff, can combo well with Call of the wild or scare your opponents with lurking predators!
just some randoms that ive seen lately that could be of use lol be chatting soon!
Any updates to the deck in the original post? I'm currently in the process of putting this together, deck looks awesome. I wanted a junk good stuff/control deck, was going to use anafenza but tenet just looks stronger. I'm thinking about cutting yawgmoths will for a damnation though, how important is yawgwill?
I will be switching utter end with silence the believers though. The multiple exile trigger is WAY more relevant in my games than than the singleton permanent. I have too many ways of dealing with everything else on the board to worry about exiling a permanent vs multiple creatures.
I need to add a bomb though. Something that says, I Win. I'm having those grindy games that could be just over and done with if I had a bomb. Like all my craetures are unblockable type stuff.
Considering: agent of erebos! (not for the bomb, but because I play against other bomb decks and Living death looks awful when I have it but they also have stacked graveyards... lol )
Overwhelming Stampede definitely a bomb card to consider. I can stack the field then say Bye Bye... lol Garruk -4 is the only way to global bump my creatures can get other than mirari's +1+1 bump. I need MORE lol
Anyone have any suggestions? Finaly got my deck list typed back up! and Will do my best to stay on top of any changes.
Any updates to the deck in the original post? I'm currently in the process of putting this together, deck looks awesome. I wanted a junk good stuff/control deck, was going to use anafenza but tenet just looks stronger. I'm thinking about cutting yawgmoths will for a damnation though, how important is yawgwill?
Hey there! Welcome to the primer! The Original deck list is pretty up to date. Right now, we're just waiting for tomorrow for the full set of Origins to spoil so we can start brewing with the new cards. So far, I am not seeing anything super awesome, but I haven't been looking that deeply into it yet. Expect an update in the next couple of weeks.
Yawgmoth's Will is actually pretty important. It give you the reach you need in a late game grind if you have a full graveyard. Think of it like a really, really strong draw spell. You can definitely replace it though. Damnation shouldn't go in its slot, since Will is a card advantage slot. You can try cards like Soul of the Harvest, Harvester of Souls, or Ancient Craving for draw spells. If you need another board wipe, then go for it. If you post your list, we can help you with specific things you need help. But for now, that is my two cents. Again, welcome!
I need to add a bomb though. Something that says, I Win. I'm having those grindy games that could be just over and done with if I had a bomb. Like all my craetures are unblockable type stuff.
Considering: agent of erebos! (not for the bomb, but because I play against other bomb decks and Living death looks awful when I have it but they also have stacked graveyards... lol )
Overwhelming Stampede definitely a bomb card to consider. I can stack the field then say Bye Bye... lol Garruk -4 is the only way to global bump my creatures can get other than mirari's +1+1 bump. I need MORE lol
Anyone have any suggestions? Finaly got my deck list typed back up! and Will do my best to stay on top of any changes.
I have the same problem. Originally, I had the idea to pump Teneb up for commander lethal. It is a hit or miss most of the time. I'm hopping the addition of Rogue's Passage will help. Garruk Wildspeaker and Craterhoof Behemoth are great pump effects. I think the thing Teneb needs, or any creature, is trample. Fear hasn't been helping, nor intimidate. If there is a cool Menace enabler from Origins, that maybe something to look into.
But I see your point. Teneb is an odd deck that we are the sweet spot in between aggro and control decks, where that we need time to set up to go off, but we can stall for too long or control players gain too much advantage. This is why most midrange decks run infinite combos. The Bone Crusher deck is honestly the best way to play Teneb. You assemble the combo and go off. Disrupted? Go after someone with Teneb. You know what I have been honestly considering? Tainted Strike. It deals with crazy life gain like Oloro, and can just knock someone right out. Well, a man can only dream.
If you're looking for graveyard removal, Scavaging Ooze and Withered Wretch come to mind. Also, Anafenza maybe worth looking into. If I find some more ideas for this 'bomb' theory, I'll let you know!
Hey thanks for the help guys! Yeah I was wondering a). good replacements and b). which ones are most important to stick with the original rather than go budget. The situation is I plan on upgrading them gradually, but I would like to start upgrading them where they will make the most positive impact.
I have a kinda cobbled together list at the moment but it's not too bad, I will post it in a few minutes so you can take a looksy and tell me what you think!
Creatures 32
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Serra Ascendant
2 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Bloom Tender
2 Quasali Pridemage
2 Disciple of Griselbrand
3 Reclamation Sage
3 Eternal Witness
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Nyx Weaver
4 Elvish Piper
4 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
5 Acidic Slime
5 Whisperwood Elemantal
5 Seedborn Muse
5 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
6 Sun Titan
6 Grave Titan
6 Massacre Wurm
6 Felidar Sovereign
6 Sunblast Angel
6 Wurmcoil Engine
7 Rune-scarred Demon
7 Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
7 Sepulchral Primordial
7 Avenger of Zendikar
7 Resolute Archangel
8 Avator of Woe
2 Rampant Growth
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Cultivate
3 Buried Alive
4 Dread Return
4 Jarad's Orders
4 Harmonize
4 Day of Judgement
4 Wrath of God
5 Unburial Rights
5 Beacon of Unrest
5 Living Death
5 Ride from the Grave
6 Merciless Eviction
Instants 9
1 Swords of plowshares
1 Path to exile
3 Abzan Charm
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Mortify
3 Putrefy
3 Beast Within
4 Utter End
Enchantments 3
2 Darksteel Mutation
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Phyrexian Arena
Artifacts 6
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei's Diving top
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Golgari Signet
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Liliana Vess
Lands 33
1 Command Tower
1 Temple garden
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Woodland Cemetary
3 Plains
6 Forest
7 Swamp
1 Strip Mine
1 Vesuva
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Temple of the False Gods
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Fetid Heath
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
So I realize that the mana base probably needs some re-tooling, I just haven't paid super-close attention to it recently cause I'm planning on making some adjustments to the cards soon. I have a Maze of Ith and a Kor Haven on the way in the mail, and a Survival of the Fittest and a Sylvan Library that will get here soon.
Some cards that are popping in and out depending on the day and temperature outside are: Birthing Pod, Solemn Simulacrum, Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, Mimic Vat, Sewer Nemesis, Krosan Grip, Terastodon, Lotus Cobra, Ajani, Mentor of Heroes.
I have a feeling I might end up making some major changes after being able to try it out, I haven't been able to really practice it since the beginning of the year, only against my wife playing a halfway put together Mimeoplasm, which is a strange match-up as it is.
I am planning on purchasing probably most or all of following in short order, as they are low-cost and won't break the bank:
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Brushland
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Constant Mists
1 Necromancy
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Karmic Guide
1 Life from the Loam
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Viscera Seer
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Dark Deal
1 Read the Bones
1 Nature's Lore
1 Fiend Hunter
which will leave me at roughly what you're running, minus the cards I asked about subbing for budget options. But I probably won't purchase these until I try out what I have against a real playgroup and feel out what I feel like it needs.
Anyways, thanks again, any thoughts/comments/ideas are more than welcome!!
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
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This is a very interesting build. There is a lifegain subtheme in here that I'm not sure if I like or not lol I mean its not a bad thing to have I just think it's kind of weird to put a lifegain subtheme in here WITHOUT a way to utilize it. I like Jarad, I think thats an awesome idea, but I think if you have some lifegain stuff in here you need to have something like Sanguine Blood to make your lifegain dangerous, and not just like a stall tactic ya know?
Cards I don't like or think they have better replacements for:
Rampant growth -> Farseek. Not expensive and all around better
Golgari Signet- Having 1 signet seems redundant to me. I'd much rather see a Wayfarer's Bauble
I wouldn't add birthing pod with the lifegain subtheme just to make sure you aren't trying to do too much in the deck.
Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts*
Sunblast Angel*
* I think these 2 cards should go first and foremost. I dont like a 7 drop with no immediate impact, or a 6 drop that could potentially destroy YOUR creatures. These are definitely the first to go when you get Desecration Demon and probably Erebos, god of the dead.
Also before you buy all of those cards, make sure you have a spot for them in the deck. I would proxy them if your play group will let you since money isn't a huge resource right now, and test some things out.
EDIT : FRom this list:
Birthing Pod, Solemn Simulacrum, Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, Mimic Vat, Sewer Nemesis, Krosan Grip, Terastodon, Lotus Cobra, Ajani, Mentor of Heroes.
I think Ajani, Krosan GRip, Lotus Cobra, Solemn Simulacrum are all very good candidates for this deck. Ajani is good if you keep hte creature count high, I had him in and he did great, then I started lowering the creature count so he had to go.
ALSO ONE MORE THING: YOU NEEEEEEED DISCIPLE OF BOLAS. It does everything in this deck we want it too, that is a definite card to add for sure.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Yeah I believe I saw that I was missing a good chunk of my optimal dream build cards at the very beginning (seriously I probably had 1/2 of the good stuff I have now) so I had a sizeable lifegain theme in there cause I felt like it. Then as I've been upgrading it's been whittled down to the point I might just be better off taking it out altogether...
DEFINITELY need Disciple, thanks for pointing him out! And I mean he's worth, what, a quarter, so no big at all. I actually do have a Farseek and Wayfarer's so those will be subbed in today!
Good advice on the proxies, I will def utilize those before purchasing.
I got my Survival and Sylvan Library today, can't wait to use 'em, they definitely seem irreplaceable!
I'm so glad to see everyone collaborating! This is awesome! I recently was looking at Dragonlord Ojutai as a commander and I thought, a tempo dragon is super strong in commander. I wonder, what cards can we add in our colors that can give us a tempo edge? Thoughts?
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Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
@ Darth Caedus, some good ramp cards I would recommend would be Nature's Lore and Skyshroud Claim. These land comes in untapped so they are great at any time. They run great with shocklands and other lands that share subtypes of Forest such as Dryad Arbor and Murmuring Bosk
Beacon of unrest is a great card.
Hows altar of dementia working out for you? I did run that card but It fell out of favro quick when i needed an answer for something or some tempo gaining and I draw this and i get pissed lol
Also why triskelion?
Regrowth is also a card you can consider if you need another way to get back whatever you want
@Rhakee- I'm actually trying to reestablish my tempo in my deck lol been looking at a lot of stuff lately, playtesting against my brother's Riku deck
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Grave Pact effects are probably super great against Riku, if he is running it creature heavy. If he is spell slinging, then you can bring in Aven Mindsensor or Rule of Law.
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So far Altar of Dementia hasn't been a dead draw for me at any time, I can mill myself if I ever needed to and it's great against my meta in general because we have so much tutoring. It stops the Mystical Tutor and Enlightened Tutor pretty much whenever I know someone is going to attempt it. I have Triskelion in the build for the classic Mike/Trike two card combo, but it can be reliable in itself by just having it ping and reanimate later again. It also goes off with Karmic Guide and Reveillark when its in the grave and can sac itself. I totally forgot about Regrowth, if I have room in the deck I will definitely keep that in mind, but the deck is really tight as is, so having quite a bit of a hard time to decide what to cut out.
Nice! I like how the deck looks man, it has a lot of interaction that looks decent against multiple matchups
I'm working to build it up against more control based decks that have those EXPLODING turns. Looking at getting Rule of law, also have gaddock teeg to put into the deck and I recently obtained Volrath's Stronghold AND kor Haven. SUPER excited
Also have an aven mindcensor in the deck already!
Do you guys think Sylvan Scrying deserves a spot now that I have such specific lands that do different things?
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
As a side note I was able to win 8 matches out of the 12 I played last week at my LGS!
@Rutherjc do you have room to incorporate Sylvan Scrying? Its a great card, way better than Expedition Map but do you always need the land you will tutor for?
My deck started as a beat face deck, now its almost control but with b pod it makes it midrange lol. I never liked combo, never have and never will. We have one guy in the playgroup that ALWAYS plays combo... when we know hes using the decks we aim at him first lol
Honestly thats the tough part about it playing combo, its easy to catch hate when you win, plain and simple. I think that making 2 versions of him is good if you're up for it but man that sounds taxing and pricey lol
congrats on the win streak though thats pretty awesome.
About the sylvan scrying It was just food for thought. I'm not sure my list can fit it in right now BUT... with volrath's stronghold, kor haven, temple of the false gods/ancient tomb, urborg, it could be useful to have a specific target like that. But we will see lol
Today I used Gaddock Teeg against my brothers new mimeoplasm deck, and being able to halt a dig through time, black sun zenith, and a curse of the swine was pretty freakin delicious lol
I demonic tutor'ed for a read the bones in that game and it ended in my favor when i scryed away 2 bad things and drew into sheoldred and a path to exile lol i didn't want to have 5 mana unspent for a turn because i know how quickly a mimeoplasm deck can turn around, applied pressure was key during that game.
Then late game I had a sac outlet going on with Sheoldred: sidisi, undead vizier and Disciple of Bolas, it was nasty lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Also need a sac outlet now that i have volrath in the board it would be really great to put either viscera seer or altar of dementia back in. Trying to find room is difficult though lol
I've changed my list since the last time I updated, but its going to be almost a week before I have free time to write it down lol I added back in a 4 mana sweeper, and removed some spot removal for other things. Fine tuning and such. Hope everyone is doing great!
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
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In the last game I played I was going against a pod of Sedris, the Traitor King, Maelstrom Wanderer, and an Azami, Lady of Scrolls. Both the Sedris player and my grave were full with around 30 cards deep, he didn't have any of his combo pieces in the grave so I ended up Living Death my Mike Trike combo. In a weird chain of events (I forgot how it exactly happened), the Sedris player stole my Mikaeus with the help of the Maelstrom Wanderer player and I had to resort in using Buried Alive to put in Reveillark and Karmic Guide in my grave and flashback Unburial Rites to end the game.
I suppose there are two questions I'm asking. One: what are some good ways of getting Teneb through to a player. Two: I want to test Shizo, but am having a trouble taking out a land. I love the 3x3x3 basic land ratio, just because it helps overcome non-basic land hate. I was considering Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to go, since I don't have Sheoldred or Coffers. It does fix colorless lands, but Chromatic Lantern does it better. Thoughts?
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I'm almost postitive that chromatic lantern has made its way into my deck now, and its been a great help. I've also cut the base down to 36 lands, and trimmed my spot removal for just all around better stuff.
Now about the Fear land, I like it but I don't like it. there is a lot of black in my meta so that card for teneb would be lack luster to say the least. Urborg has helped me out a lot but thats also because im heavy black as well as run Sheoldred.
One question I have for you is how do you like Seedborn Museis there an interaction with seedborn that I'm not seeing, or do you just use it for the untap so you can have blockers when you attack?
Also how do you like Fiend hunter for the deck?
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
I have missed you old friend.
I'm so glad those upgrades are working for you!
I think through my testing, I decided to give Rogue's Passage another shot. It is a little dicey, but I think in a grindy game when I have the mana open, it will always be better. The change I am thinking of is:
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for Rogue's Passage
Urborg doesn't have any "inherent synergy" in this build. It is stronger in a deck with Sheoldred or Filth. We'll see how this plays out for now.
Seedborn hasn't been doing much lately, but with the addition of Winding Canyons she can potentially be a very powerful tool. Her best use without setup is to dump out creatures on your turn, then clock out your removal spells during other player's turns. I wish we had more flash creatures to take advantage of her. So far, she isn't that great, but she's good enough to stay in, if that makes sense.
Fiend Hunter is fantastic. He is great removal and has some really gross interactions with Sun Titan and other reanimation spells. Running Fiend Hunter kind of wants me to play [/c]Restoration Angel[/c], I just don't know what to take out for her... ha, maybe Seedborn Muse.
Also, we have a new Teneb player joining the train. emecito23 is currently working with me to build a budget version of Teneb for all the new and beginning players. Our established budget is between 100-150 dollars. If anyone has an suggestions on good, strong, and cheap cards, feel free to shout them out!
In other news, I haven't seen much in the Origins spoilers, but I am getting excited with the power level we're seeing. I'm sure we will encounter some game changers for this deck.
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It's good to be back buddy lol I'll take a pic of my deck list tomorrow and try to seriously get it typed up. One card I accidentally took out that will find it's way back in is Silence the believers. I love this card and have no idea how long it's been missing out of the deck lol moving on now.
Let me know how you like rogue's passage. I've been considering it as well to make an unblockable.
I would love to find a space for fiend hunter, so once I get it typed up we can talk about potential spots for it, sun titan recursion has always been a top favorite strategy for any deck with white in it, for a very good reason lol
Thats exciting about the new member, WELCOME ABOARD! :), and about the budget build! I started in budget as im sure a lot of people did so i Would love to look through my cards and name off some good ones to consider, or at least food for thought anyways lol
Geth, lord of the vault! great fun card as I've used in the past
Angelic Arbiter Great flyer with a very handy ability.
terastodon extremely budget and a huge reanimator target as well, great for walker/enchantment hate.
sepuchral primordial card ive honestly been considering to add into the deck. Great card and extremely cheap
crown of convergence I used this card in many g/W budget builds. Good if you have tokens as well as filtering for the good stuff, can combo well with Call of the wild or scare your opponents with lurking predators!
just some randoms that ive seen lately that could be of use lol be chatting soon!
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Creatures 29
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Bloom Tender
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Quasali Pridemage
1 Aven mindcensor
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Knight of New Reliquary
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Disciple Of Bolas
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Shadowborn Demon
1 Dragonlord Dramoka
1 Sun Titan
1 Grave titan
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Resolute Archangel
1 Rune-scarred Demon
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cerobite
1 Ashen Rider
Sorceries 14
1 Farseek
1 Nature's Lore
1 Demonic Tutor
1 life from the loam
1 Damnable Pact
1 Read the Bones
1 Cultivate
1 day of judgment
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 living death
1 Unburial Rights
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Terminus
1 merciless eviction
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Swords of plowshares
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Abzan Charm
1 Utter End
Enchantments 8
1 sylvan library
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Animate Dead
1 Aura Shards
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Birthing Pod
1 Greater Good
1 Mirari's Wake
Artifacts 3
1 Sensei's Diving top
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Planeswalkers 2
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Liliana Vess
Lands 36
1 Mana Confluence
1 Winding Canyon
1 Command Tower
1 Temple garden
1 Overgrown tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated chapel
1 sunpetal grove
1 woodland cemetary
1 temple of silence
1 temple of plenty
1 sandsteppe citadel
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
4 Forest
4 Swamp
1 Urborg, tomb yawgmoth
1 Verdant catacombs
1 marsh flats
1 windswept heath
1 polluted delta
1 bloodstained mire
1 wooded foothills
1 blossoming sands
1 temple of the gods
1 bojuka bog
1 stirring wildwood
1 Brushland
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Caves of Koilos
Update:
cards I took out since last post
Cards added since last post
I will be switching utter end with silence the believers though. The multiple exile trigger is WAY more relevant in my games than than the singleton permanent. I have too many ways of dealing with everything else on the board to worry about exiling a permanent vs multiple creatures.
I need to add a bomb though. Something that says, I Win. I'm having those grindy games that could be just over and done with if I had a bomb. Like all my craetures are unblockable type stuff.
Considering:
agent of erebos! (not for the bomb, but because I play against other bomb decks and Living death looks awful when I have it but they also have stacked graveyards... lol )
Overwhelming Stampede definitely a bomb card to consider. I can stack the field then say Bye Bye... lol Garruk -4 is the only way to global bump my creatures can get other than mirari's +1+1 bump. I need MORE lol
Anyone have any suggestions? Finaly got my deck list typed back up! and Will do my best to stay on top of any changes.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Hey there! Welcome to the primer! The Original deck list is pretty up to date. Right now, we're just waiting for tomorrow for the full set of Origins to spoil so we can start brewing with the new cards. So far, I am not seeing anything super awesome, but I haven't been looking that deeply into it yet. Expect an update in the next couple of weeks.
Yawgmoth's Will is actually pretty important. It give you the reach you need in a late game grind if you have a full graveyard. Think of it like a really, really strong draw spell. You can definitely replace it though. Damnation shouldn't go in its slot, since Will is a card advantage slot. You can try cards like Soul of the Harvest, Harvester of Souls, or Ancient Craving for draw spells. If you need another board wipe, then go for it. If you post your list, we can help you with specific things you need help. But for now, that is my two cents. Again, welcome!
I have the same problem. Originally, I had the idea to pump Teneb up for commander lethal. It is a hit or miss most of the time. I'm hopping the addition of Rogue's Passage will help. Garruk Wildspeaker and Craterhoof Behemoth are great pump effects. I think the thing Teneb needs, or any creature, is trample. Fear hasn't been helping, nor intimidate. If there is a cool Menace enabler from Origins, that maybe something to look into.
But I see your point. Teneb is an odd deck that we are the sweet spot in between aggro and control decks, where that we need time to set up to go off, but we can stall for too long or control players gain too much advantage. This is why most midrange decks run infinite combos. The Bone Crusher deck is honestly the best way to play Teneb. You assemble the combo and go off. Disrupted? Go after someone with Teneb. You know what I have been honestly considering? Tainted Strike. It deals with crazy life gain like Oloro, and can just knock someone right out. Well, a man can only dream.
If you're looking for graveyard removal, Scavaging Ooze and Withered Wretch come to mind. Also, Anafenza maybe worth looking into. If I find some more ideas for this 'bomb' theory, I'll let you know!
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WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH