More changes coming soon. Canyons never really gave me reach as much as it made for cute plays. Rogue's Passage is a much better sink and is needed to get Teneb through. I just wish we had something like Kessig Wolf Run in Abzan colors. Life from the Loam was a serious under performer, and I always hated what I ended up milling and often just wasted two mana per turn. K Grip will help with eliminating combo decks.
We'll get a set review up in a couple of days. So far, Origins is really exciting. Not quite sure if anything will go in this deck. So far, Teneb hasn't gotten many cool new toys from the most recent sets. But in a new development, I have some cards I am willing to cut:
Seedborn Muse: I wanted it for the Prophet of Kruphix like effect, to give my spells and creatures reach during other player's turns. With this, the instant and cute flash creature number was increased and Winding Canyons was added. The thing is, this card made the deck try to do too many things at once. This is often a problem I have with this build, since there are so many different ways to build it. I decided to cut the fluff and make the deck proactive, rather than reactive. Play threats. Get wrecked. That should be the basic way the deck plays, with lots of removal to clear blockers and obstacles.
Dark Deal: This one makes me super sad, but whenever I see it, I never want to use it. One of two things happen when I get to this card. One: I don't want to discard the hand I have, since it has lots of no-creature spells that are not as easily recurable. The only time it netted me lots of profit was a hand chuck full of land. And two: I don't have enough cards in hand. When you cast this and have two cards in hand, its heartbreaking. I feel like if we need a wheel effect, Memory Jar is probably better. I really don't want to see this go, so if anyone has some advice, I would really appreciate it!
Another concern Rutherjc119 had was that this deck has no game enders. Meanings spells that just win on the spot. Examples of this would be Tooth and Nail grabbing Craterhoof Behemoth and Avenger of Zendikar. We have plenty of bombs and grind, but no enders. Living Death can't even be considered one, because you have to wait a whole turn. So, what we need is some sort of massive anthem. This may mean Craterhoof will top out the curve of the deck once again. Thoughts?
Again, Origins will be up soon. I love it all, but not sure what to bring in. I would like so hear some feedback from you all before I go into a set review. In the review, I won't go over every white, black, or green bomb, but instead a handful of cards to consider, whether or not they go into this list.
Hey everyone! Very excited today, as we unveil the Origins set review, as well as a little treat at the end. Stay tuned!
==Origins Preview==
It's about to go down
Lets talk Planeswalker's First:
Nissa, Vastwood Seer: The Borderland Ranger ability is cool, and seven lands is a no-biggie for this deck. The problem comes with her Planeswalker side. Her +1 is wicked powerful draw ability and is fantastic. Her -2 is odd, because we can only have one token on the field at a time, and it is only one token. Her final is very lackluster here in EDH. 6 lands are now dudes? Sure, it could be powerful, but it takes a lot of setting up. So lets evaluate her as she is: a mana dork that can give you card advantage later in the game. I can't decide for sure, but this is a slot currently sitting Wood Elves. Is the slow ramp worth the late game advantage?
Liliana, Heretical Healer: 2/3 lifelinker isn't bad, and her trigger is really easy to set off. Plus, giving us a body with her trigger is really awesome as well. So as a planeswalker? She scales with Liliana Vess. Her +1 is slightly more powerful, making everyone discard rather than one player, but we give up to tutor ability for reanimation. Her ultimate is really hard to set off, and I can't imagine she'll survive by then. Vess's ultimate is a little more back breaking to fall back on. So is she better than Vess? Again, the low mana cost helps, but there is quite a few hoops to jump through. Testing will have to be done here as well.
Kytheon, Hero of Akros: 2/1 for one? Doesn't really fit into this deck. Making him indestructible does seem nice, but triggering him will be a little harder than the other two. For his planeswalker side, Gideon's effect was never that great to start with, so little Giddy doesn't bring anything to the table, His +1 is worth discussing, since making Teneb indestructible makes our recursion much more resilient. But again, that is a lot of steps for 'conditional' protection of one creature. I think I'd pass on Gideon.
The planeswalkers seem cool, but here is the main issue. They are watered down versions of cards we already run (Nissa -> Wood Elves and Liliana -> Liliana Vess) where you have to jump through hoops to get a slightly powerful card advantage engine. The issue with planeswalkers is that they are obviously powerful if they can stay around, but usually draw their merit based on what they do when you land them the first turn. Liliana Vess is a Vampiric Tutor that you get to do again if she survives. Garruk Wildspeaker is a ramp spell that lets you Overrun if he sticks around a turn. These planeswalkers don't seem as backbreaking. I will test Nissa and Liliana, but I am not sure if they will make the cut.
Now, for the normal, boring stuff:
Archangel of Tithes: Seems really interesting. I like the Ghostly Prison effect on a creature. Her mana cost is a little much, but it shouldn't be much of an issue. The thing is, our 4CMC creature slots is beginning to stagnate a little bit. If I want to add her, we're going to have to cut a card like Linvala, Keeper of Silence to keep balance. I have to test this a little more, but maybe we need a prison effect stapled to a creature.
Erebos's Titan: Big dude is big, and his recursion is very real. Discarding means we can add fuel for Teneb. His indestructibility is a little odd, and most likely will rarely turn on in EDH. This means that he is a 5/5 that can recur himself for 4 mana. Feel like Archangel of Tithes would be better.
Languish: Some people thought this would be a good replacement for Toxic Deluge, but there are a couple of problems with that. One, Deluge gets under Gaddock Teeg. Two: If you're gonna play a 4 mana wrath, there are better options. And three: if you're looking to get under indestructibility and such, Black Sun's Zenith is better, or...
Tragic Arrogance: Many people are buzzing about this card; me included. It is a Cataclysm effect that doesn't hit lands. However, if I am understanding this correctly, it gets under hexproof. This is because you choose creatures, not target them. Then the controllers sacrifice them, which also gets passed indestructible. This works really well with us, since we run a low number of Planeswalkers, artifacts, and enchantments. Creature's isn't a concern, because you can just pick Teneb as your VIP, wipe the board, the attack and recur someone. Also, YOU choose the permanents that get destroyed. That means you can play around this so that all fliers are eliminated, as well as all prison effects. I think this is a fantastic board wipe. I wonder if it can replace Merciless Eviction. I want to add it in, and only time will tell on where it sits.
Woodland Bellower: At the time of this post, this card has a total of 8 targets. The non-legendary clause stinks since we can't grab Saffi Eriskdotter or Gaddock Teeg, which would probably be really gross targets and make this card instantly playable. Can you imagine? Recur my big dude. Go get Saffi. Sac my big dude. Get it back and get Gaddock Teeg. No spells for you. But, unfortunately this is a little fixed, so I may pass. If you can run it in your build for more value, then I would. Decks with Birthing Pod engines would love this.
Evolutionary Leap: While I am not going to add this, you guys who were budget building finally got a Survival of the Fittest effect. This is an awesome budget replacement if you can't find a Survival or don't need to shell out the money. I totally understand that. This card is awesome for you guys and please please, run it!
Sword of the Animist: This seems kind of awesome. Gets us a land, as well as makes Teneb a 3 turn clock. The only issue is that we only run 9 basic lands. If I decide to add this little gem, we're going to have to change our mana base.
Animist's Awakening: Are you too lazy to ramp? Would you rather just sink your mana for turn and gamble with the top of your library? Then you're like me! Seriously, this card does seem very powerful. It's very possible to make back a good portion of mana. I was thinking of a similar effect this deck does, and I realized, Mirrari's Wake. Bear with me. Wake doubles our mana for 5 mana. What if we could get a smaller increase in mana that is permanent and thins your library? I feel the thinning is much better of an effect. Of course, if you're going to pour 7 mana into a ramp spell, Boundless Realms seems better. But this has an opportunity for tempo, since the lands come into play untapped. So this takes some testing, but I am excited about this.
Demonic Pact: Seems cool, but without a Qasali Pridemage, I don't even think I'd enjoy running this. love the art though
Managorger Hydra: It has evasion and can get REAL big real fast. Doesn't seem like much, but I feel that this guy can be really solid. Will test him out.
The Great Aurora: I love Warp World effects, and this really makes me want to run it. There is a bit of a double edged sword though. On one hand, the shuffling away of a hand can get rid of potential disruption, such as Cyclonic Rift. Of course, it can give players disruption in their new hand... like Cyclonic Rift. I think if I wanted an effect like this, I'd run Genesis Wave and that is a bit much already, given the number of Non-creature spells we run.
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder: The draw effect is really powerful, but can also get really out of control. You need to be able to generate mana as fast as you draw cards. He maybe a stronger Bloodgift Demon, and Harvester of Souls maybe a more fixed version, so I don't know if this is a sweet spot between the two. Those are the three draw demons currently fighting for the slot. I'll elave it to you uys: what do you think about this tank of a draw engine?
Shadows of the Past: If Kothophed seemed too much, this maybe just right. Scrying is really awesome off any creature dying. This can fix our draws and give us a lot of advantage off of boardwipes. If anyone is looking for a budget replacement for Sylvan Library, this maybe worth looking into.
So, what is the verdict? Origins is the last core set, and honestly, this was an awesome way to end it. Now, we're going to enter an era of fast sets and new tools for Commander. It maybe too much to keep up with, but I am excited. Here are the proposed changes for the moment:
Of course, these are not for sure, but these are slots that are going to be tested. Here are cards that are being considered and/or are on the fence about:
Did you enjoy the review? Feel that I left something out? Want to discuss a card's potential a little more? Feel free to comment below! Also, before I sign off, here is a new and exciting update:
Awesome set review! I think Origins is what we need to start a budget build for Teneb. It is a great time since new players can easily get their hands on these cards, and they're all EDH all stars. Thanks for the review! I do want to ask: you don't like Kothophed? She seems like a really strong draw engine. All of your removal spells become cantrips, and blocking become a little more complicated. It seems like an auto include for me!
Awesome set review! I think Origins is what we need to start a budget build for Teneb. It is a great time since new players can easily get their hands on these cards, and they're all EDH all stars. Thanks for the review! I do want to ask: you don't like Kothophed? She seems like a really strong draw engine. All of your removal spells become cantrips, and blocking become a little more complicated. It seems like an auto include for me!
I need to post my list soon, I keep delaying.
Hey! Welcome back! Thank you for the kind words. I don't think that it isn't that I don't like Kothophed, it is just I need to feel out his triggering ability. It is either going to be perfect or a little greedy, which I am not sure what would curve better in this deck. If I run it, I would probably cut Bloodgift Demon. See, the thing about cards like this is when they get spoiled, there usually is a better or more fixed version already out there. Take Harvester of Souls for example. The same mana cost as Kothophed, lose flying and gain deathtouch. While you don't trigger of every dying permanent, you can still draw a lot of cards AND turn of the draw whenever you want. Bloodgift Demon is nice because if I don't want to draw anymore, I can just attack into a big dude and recur him later. Kothophed adds an element of unpredictability into the mix. He is a high risk/high reward type of card. Of course, I suppose that makes me a bad black mage if I am hesitant to jump on that train.
Overall, I don't think it is that I don't like him. I just need to test him first to see if he is a good fit.
Hey guys! I have been busy with a lot of things lately, so I am going to be absent from the thread for the rest of the summer. I recently did a set review that should keep everyone semi satisfied, at least until Battle for Zendikar comes out. If you have any questions or topics you want discussed, post here in the forums and the community with help you! I have a lot of trust and faith with the people who frequent the primer and they will be able to answer any question as well as I can. Have a safe and wonderful summer everyone!
Hey guys! Just bringing the dead back to life lol
I had a battle against a good riku deck the other night. Thank god for Resolute archangel for resetting my life total twice and his once, and thank god for sheold red and rune scarred demon. It was a crazy battle of 1for1 for a long time until I finally pulled ahead with the mentioned 7 drops above. He was pissed afterwards because after a board wipe and a worinclex he thought he won
I really haven't added anything new to the deck. Still want to add in a sac out let and possibly fiend hunter but spots aren't easy to find in this deck lol
Some notable additions in the deck were Yawgmoth's Will, Phyrexian Tower, Life from the Loam, Wasteland. Yawgmoth's Will has been a tremendous power-up for this deck, it allows for plenty of plays during lategame. Recently added in Life from the Loam so going to test out how well it does with my Tenebu build, Wasteland has been added to keep the redundancy of the pseudo-strip mine lock, and finally got my hands on a Phyrexian Tower!!! I love to have lands that can tap to sack to protect my important creatures being exiled.
I also have a bit of a conundrum, does any Teneb users here use Blasting Station as a sac outlet to go infinite? If so, has it been useful to combo out with Fiend Hunter, Sun Titan, Saffi Eriksdotter, Karmic Guide, or Reveillark. Right now I'm not sure how useful it would be if I add it in and if I do add it in what would be recommended to take out? The deck list I am running currently is really tight as it is.
The first three are pretty self explanatory. These spells were swapped for higher value. Acidic Slime can hit a broader range of threats than Decay and can be reanimated. Elder can ramp better than Lore, and also can be reanimated. Arrogance is the boardwipe that has been designed for this deck and solves the problems Eviction solves (although Sigarda match ups are now slightly worse). Now the last one is something worth discussing. Dark Deal was a slow card. It was either underwhelming, or I didn't want to use it with a hand packed with value. So for now, an alternative win condition will take that slot, but this is really up in the air. I have been testing Triumph, Siege Rhino and Birthing Pod in these slots, and haven't really settled yet.
I will post more soon, along with a game report! Spoiler alert; I win
Hey guys! Just bringing the dead back to life lol
I had a battle against a good riku deck the other night. Thank god for Resolute archangel for resetting my life total twice and his once, and thank god for sheold red and rune scarred demon. It was a crazy battle of 1for1 for a long time until I finally pulled ahead with the mentioned 7 drops above. He was pissed afterwards because after a board wipe and a worinclex he thought he won
I really haven't added anything new to the deck. Still want to add in a sac out let and possibly fiend hunter but spots aren't easy to find in this deck lol
Hey! Thanks for hanging around while I was gone. It sounds like you have been having some pretty crazy games with big dudes! And I know, cutting in this deck is super hard.
Hey Everyone! It's been awhile since I been back to this thread~
Did you guys recently see the new spoilers for Battle of Zendikar? There are the new duals (Calling them Slow Duals for now) for ally colors!
On another note I revamped my Tenebu deck list so here is the current version:
<snip>
Some notable additions in the deck were Yawgmoth's Will, Phyrexian Tower, Life from the Loam, Wasteland. Yawgmoth's Will has been a tremendous power-up for this deck, it allows for plenty of plays during lategame. Recently added in Life from the Loam so going to test out how well it does with my Tenebu build, Wasteland has been added to keep the redundancy of the pseudo-strip mine lock, and finally got my hands on a Phyrexian Tower!!! I love to have lands that can tap to sack to protect my important creatures being exiled.
I also have a bit of a conundrum, does any Teneb users here use Blasting Station as a sac outlet to go infinite? If so, has it been useful to combo out with Fiend Hunter, Sun Titan, Saffi Eriksdotter, Karmic Guide, or Reveillark. Right now I'm not sure how useful it would be if I add it in and if I do add it in what would be recommended to take out? The deck list I am running currently is really tight as it is.
The new dual lands seem really good for Commander, but we can only use one. I am a little more excited for Expeditions, since players can now get their hands on the fetchlands and shocks for this deck! I will probably add the Green White land, but we shall see.
I think your deck looks super solid. I'll look over it more in depth in a couple of days. For now, regarding Blasting Station. I like the card. It is a highly useful sac outlet and can lead to strong infinite combos. There are a couple of things that nerfs this. One: Krosan Grip wrecks this. Also, people can respond to you comboing and disrupt you, so make sure you announce and explain the combo BEFORE you go off, so if someone is going to respond, they do it so you can respond by going off. There is a whole philosophy about comboing in multiplayer. I'll talk about that later. If you're going to run Blasting Station and such, make sure you play Grand Abolisher
***
Enjoy everyone and have a great week! Will check in again soon. Great to be back!
Our meta is highly competitive so everyone pretty much understands how to respond to any one of my infinite combos. I agree with your thoughts on Blasting Station, Krosan Grip does wreck it, but there are reasons why I run both Dragonlord Dromoka and Grand Abolisher!
Thoughts on Life from the Loam in this deck? I only played a couple games with it in the build so far, however I have never seem to draw into it or tutor for it yet, so I don't know how it will impact the deck yet. If it doesn't go well I feel opted to switch the card out for Enlightened Tutor.
On another note, I am really excited on the expedition lands! I am willing to dump money just to get all the lands for both my Teneb and Intet deck!
Our meta is highly competitive so everyone pretty much understands how to respond to any one of my infinite combos. I agree with your thoughts on Blasting Station, Krosan Grip does wreck it, but there are reasons why I run both Dragonlord Dromoka and Grand Abolisher!
Thoughts on Life from the Loam in this deck? I only played a couple games with it in the build so far, however I have never seem to draw into it or tutor for it yet, so I don't know how it will impact the deck yet. If it doesn't go well I feel opted to switch the card out for Enlightened Tutor.
On another note, I am really excited on the expedition lands! I am willing to dump money just to get all the lands for both my Teneb and Intet deck!
Awesome, yeah some people don't know exactly. I do really like your list though. I wanted to ask; how do you intend on winning? You have lots of fuel and means to reanimate, but there are no mass pumps or evasion outlets or anything like that. Are you just going through the attrition route? Also, you should look into running Sword of Feast and Famine. It is a super engine in Teneb.
Life from the Loam is... meh. I've tried it, taken it out, and tried it again. I assume that with the amount of fetches you're running, you'll get some more use out of it. But it seems like such a bad card. Whenever I play it, I always hit non creature spells which is rough in this deck, as you only have two ways to get spells back. If you want to run Life from the Loam, then you need to run a good deal of fetches with Exploration and Azusa, Lost but Seeking (which you do have) and a good number of creatures (which you don't have). 25 is much too low to make sure you efficiently hit bombs off dredge. When I used to play Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, the creature count was 35-40, and that was a little better but still had problems. With 35 to 40, your ratio for hitting a creature or land is about 60%, which is better than your odds right now, which is 50%. Thats way too much of a variance to make Life from the Loam viable. It very much so is a build-around-me card, but if you're going to build around a card, might as well build around something better, like Birthing Pod.
Yeah my wallet is crying right now. I don't know how I'm going to explain this to my family. "Hi folks, I have a problem" I don't really need the expeditions for this deck, but I need it for all of my others. Do you know by chance if they're going to be foil? And I'm sure there has to be a smart way to buy into these. I think I'm going to wait on buying into BTFZ for now.
Awesome, yeah some people don't know exactly. I do really like your list though. I wanted to ask; how do you intend on winning? You have lots of fuel and means to reanimate, but there are no mass pumps or evasion outlets or anything like that. Are you just going through the attrition route? Also, you should look into running Sword of Feast and Famine. It is a super engine in Teneb.
Life from the Loam is... meh. I've tried it, taken it out, and tried it again. I assume that with the amount of fetches you're running, you'll get some more use out of it. But it seems like such a bad card. Whenever I play it, I always hit non creature spells which is rough in this deck, as you only have two ways to get spells back. If you want to run Life from the Loam, then you need to run a good deal of fetches with Exploration and Azusa, Lost but Seeking (which you do have) and a good number of creatures (which you don't have). 25 is much too low to make sure you efficiently hit bombs off dredge. When I used to play Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, the creature count was 35-40, and that was a little better but still had problems. With 35 to 40, your ratio for hitting a creature or land is about 60%, which is better than your odds right now, which is 50%. Thats way too much of a variance to make Life from the Loam viable. It very much so is a build-around-me card, but if you're going to build around a card, might as well build around something better, like Birthing Pod.
Yeah my wallet is crying right now. I don't know how I'm going to explain this to my family. "Hi folks, I have a problem" I don't really need the expeditions for this deck, but I need it for all of my others. Do you know by chance if they're going to be foil? And I'm sure there has to be a smart way to buy into these. I think I'm going to wait on buying into BTFZ for now.
Sword of Feast and Famine is absolutely amazing (I run it in my other 3 EDH decks!), the only reason I don't have it in this deck is that in my meta it is really harsh on the artifact/enchantment hate and I run more of an artifact light route. It enables a lot of sick plays but it is easily nullified, however I am willingly able to try input it in back in the deck to try it again (There are other options in the way of untapping lands such as Bear Umbra and Nature's Will).
Yeah I can see Life from the Loam being not that great, I had some times where I mill myself via Altar of Dementia and hit cards I rather have in the hand instead of the grave. I run Birthing Pod in my deck and it is really great, only downfall is in attrition games because I vary in having 2-3 creatures of all cmc that I run. I guess it's time to switch out Life from the Loam to either Enlightened Tutor or Sword of Feast and Famine.
To answer your question on how I win, it is usually via burst combo, Sheoldred/Kokusho Drain, or Sheoldred/Yosei Lockdown. Depending on which hand I keep I end up winning by T5/T6 consistently, in a more control heavy pod I opt to go for the more longer route and set myself up for the un-counterable reanimation spell or fetching out my Grand Abolisher or Dragonlord Dromoka before starting to combo. I don't rely much on Tenebu to lay the beatdown, he is more like my backup plan and also my constant reliable reanimator to gain value in attrition matches.
As of now I feel like the deck is almost complete, I'm just missing that last 10% to perfect it. Is there any part of the deck that seems off? Or any weak links in the list?
For the Zendikar Expedition Lands the full art fetches, shocks, and tango/battalion (name still pending) lands are all going to be 100% foiled. The chance of pulling one so far is 1/640 packs so I heard, and one is guaranteed in a case. Well so far from what I seen and read, the estimated price will be around $80-$100 for the lands that don't splash blue. The ones that splash blue are most likely going to be over $160. I am holding back from buying BFZ atm, but once it is released depending on what gets spoiled, I might just go all out and buy singles of the full art lands once they get in circulation.
I'll say it before and I'll say it again, Life of the loam needs to be in this deck... and this is the reason why... well... one of many lol
I'm dredgeing with teneb on the field, just trying to get stuff, then when i dredge I hit Sun titan, Grave Titan, and Reanimate dead After I swung in with teneb not blocked... needless to say after he flipped his top card and reveled a useless card he scooped lol
Also finaly got me a murmuring bosk as well. Still loving the deck, but school has kept me quite occupied so I haven't played much. After looking at the spoiler I don't see anything that should really be included into the deck from the new set so... o well lol
I'll say it before and I'll say it again, Life of the loam needs to be in this deck... and this is the reason why... well... one of many lol
I'm dredgeing with teneb on the field, just trying to get stuff, then when i dredge I hit Sun titan, Grave Titan, and Reanimate dead After I swung in with teneb not blocked... needless to say after he flipped his top card and reveled a useless card he scooped lol
Also finaly got me a murmuring bosk as well. Still loving the deck, but school has kept me quite occupied so I haven't played much. After looking at the spoiler I don't see anything that should really be included into the deck from the new set so... o well lol
Life from the Loam is very strong in reanimation heavy lists, but lists like mine that tend to use your graveyard as a second hand can't necessarily benefit in the same way. Loam keeps going in and out of my list. Maybe if I ran all nine fetches it would be a bit better, but then we're going into combo territory, and Hermit Druid and company gets the job done much better in hyper competitive lists.
Yeah Battle for Zendikar... okay I'm going to do my official set review AFTER Thursday when we start toying around and testing with some of the cards. But I really was disappointed in this set. The design feels very rushed and mixed up to me. There were no cards that popped out to me and said WOW, that's incredible! Which is kind of sad. One thing I will say though is watch out for Emeria Angel.
I preordered my copies of her already. She is going to be a house in Commander. In this deck? Not so sure, but late game lands as recursion seems kind of awesome. The fact that we can reliably protect her, and she can cheat permanents into play under Gaddock Teeg is pretty sweet. Problem: My curve is high enough as it is, so somebody has to go.
The Eldrazi: They don't shuffle in your library now, which makes them sweet reanimation targets... but I mean, who cares? Ulamog of the Ceaseless Hunger without haste is a sitting duck. The rest are pretty lackluster without their cast triggers. Void Winnower seems... spicy, but I'm not sure how well that plays in. It acts as some kind of evasion for Teneb, but most good fliers in EDH are seven CMC, so a bit of a bummer there.
Drana, Liberator of Malakir: She seems really awesome, and note that because she has first strike, her deal damage effect will trigger before your other creatures deal combat damage. So she seems good enough, just not sure where she can fit into the current deck. Also, gross pre order price tag.
I think time will tell for this set. I can write a more detailed review in the coming weeks, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Start testing the angel, but thats pretty much it.
I'll say it before and I'll say it again, Life of the loam needs to be in this deck... and this is the reason why... well... one of many lol
I'm dredgeing with teneb on the field, just trying to get stuff, then when i dredge I hit Sun titan, Grave Titan, and Reanimate dead After I swung in with teneb not blocked... needless to say after he flipped his top card and reveled a useless card he scooped lol
Also finaly got me a murmuring bosk as well. Still loving the deck, but school has kept me quite occupied so I haven't played much. After looking at the spoiler I don't see anything that should really be included into the deck from the new set so... o well lol
Life from the Loam is very strong in reanimation heavy lists, but lists like mine that tend to use your graveyard as a second hand can't necessarily benefit in the same way. Loam keeps going in and out of my list. Maybe if I ran all nine fetches it would be a bit better, but then we're going into combo territory, and Hermit Druid and company gets the job done much better in hyper competitive lists.
Yeah Battle for Zendikar... okay I'm going to do my official set review AFTER Thursday when we start toying around and testing with some of the cards. But I really was disappointed in this set. The design feels very rushed and mixed up to me. There were no cards that popped out to me and said WOW, that's incredible! Which is kind of sad. One thing I will say though is watch out for Emeria Angel.
I preordered my copies of her already. She is going to be a house in Commander. In this deck? Not so sure, but late game lands as recursion seems kind of awesome. The fact that we can reliably protect her, and she can cheat permanents into play under Gaddock Teeg is pretty sweet. Problem: My curve is high enough as it is, so somebody has to go.
The Eldrazi: They don't shuffle in your library now, which makes them sweet reanimation targets... but I mean, who cares? Ulamog of the Ceaseless Hunger without haste is a sitting duck. The rest are pretty lackluster without their cast triggers. Void Winnower seems... spicy, but I'm not sure how well that plays in. It acts as some kind of evasion for Teneb, but most good fliers in EDH are seven CMC, so a bit of a bummer there.
Drana, Liberator of Malakir: She seems really awesome, and note that because she has first strike, her deal damage effect will trigger before your other creatures deal combat damage. So she seems good enough, just not sure where she can fit into the current deck. Also, gross pre order price tag.
I think time will tell for this set. I can write a more detailed review in the coming weeks, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Start testing the angel, but thats pretty much it.
Oh her! Yes she seems really awesome. Alongside sheoldred that could be a very nasty pair! I will get one of her and see what I think of her. Might be something there indeed
Well folks, its that time again, for a set review. However, I am only going to go over a few cards and not the entire set. As always, if you see a card you really like but it isn't on this list, I would be more than happy to discuss it. But until then, these are my initial observations:
Emeria Shepherd: NOT ANGEL, shepherd. Shepherd seems like a monster of a house, until you realize she gets worse the more colors you play. We run just about 8 plains total, which means we won't trigger her prime ability all that often. In this deck, she reads "Landfall, return target non-land permanent to your hand." It isn't bad, but this next guy maybe better.
Greenwarden of Murasa: Double Eternal Witness is awesome. I'm not sure yet how well she fits in (testing needs to be done), but with the ability to recur her again and again, she maybe pure value town. Worth testing.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: This guy is worth talking about because he makes Teneb a turn three clock for the rest of the game. This means that you don't need any set up with Teneb, just cast him and swing. I really like that about him, as well as his ability to give you dudes. But I'm not sure if a four mana untouchable anthem is worth slotting into this deck. Still, it is worth a shot.
Drana, Liberator of Malakir: She is super fine I like her ability to pump all of your creatures, making your hatebears into monsters. Note that first strike means she puts counters on your creatures before they deal damage. It may make combat math a head ache, but I like it. Worth testing.
Ob Nixilis Reignited: Ob puts in work, drawing your cards like Phyrexian Arena and Murdering blockers. The thing is, he does a lot of things, but none of them well. I don't think he is focused enough. In addition, we have to consider our five mana planeswalker slot, taken up by Liliana Vess currently. Lily can get us either Arena or any kind of removal. So there is that to consider.
Undergrowth Champion: There has been a lot of hype around this guy... but dies to Doom Blade? I hate that argument, but its true. Very little removal is damage oriented in EDH, so this guy may get big, but not insane. I'd rather run Forgotten Ancient.
Shambling Vent: I'm going to test this bad boy out, but he seems a little lack luster. I'm waiting for the B/G manland to make a defined decision, so stay tuned.
Canopy Vista: I like these tango lands, just wish we had them for out other two color pairs. For now, Vista can be fetched and grabbed with Wood Elves so it is worth the slot.
The Eldrazi: Real quick, lets talk about these guys as a unit. While they're great for some decks, they don't sync very well with Teneb. Mainly, their synergy for other Eldrazi and colorless creatures (which we don't have either). Because of this, I don't think the Eldrazi are a good fit. The two I want to talk about are Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Void Winnower. Ulamog is a house in of himself, and can be reanimated this time around. However, he must be cast to get his exile triggers. This is a bit of a issue because he is now less attractive to reanimate. Also, being indestructible means 9 times out of ten he will be exiled, meaning you can't bring him back again and again for continuous value. Even with the attack trigger, that means he needs to survive a rotation around the table to attack. And even if hypothetically you give him haste when you cast him from your hand and then attack into someone, we can't use what we exiled from their library. That scenario is also super magical christmas land. So my vote for Teneb is no Ulamog. Real quick, lets talk about Void Winnower, aka "Your opponents can't even". Note her synergy with Gaddock Teeg meaning she can really make your opponent's life hell. She can also be reanimated, which means you can cheat her out early, then back her up for protection. With shroud, she becomes virtually undefinable. However keep in mind that no matter how much tax you stack against your opponents, most spot removal is one CMC or three CMC, and that removal is usually exile. So you may not get repeted value out of her. Still, its good to know that she can fit into this deck semi decently.
So everyone, that is our set review! Overall, this set was pretty lack luster, but there are somethings worth trying. I think we as EDH players are just dying for Commander 2015. So that is where we'll see some value. Until then, keep on harvesting!
Played Teneb last night against mimeoplasm reanimator. First game was grindy but I had answers to everything... until he hits tooth and nail entwined and gets out vorinclex and prophet of kruphix, and i lost soon afterwards lol
2nd game I was on top of it, and played kinda slow to conserve my resources waiting for his bomb creatures. I was able to take this game just wish the right removal at the right time.
3rd game i had a faster clock, and was able to garruk overrun him when he misplayed and forgot to attack him.
Im loving some of these spoilers that have been released thus far. Some of these creatures are going to be fun as hell to play with. Not sure if any are for teneb just yet but we will see
Hey guys, it's been a while but I'm back and happy to see the thread still around. I had to take a break from magic for various reasons but I am in full commander swing once again. What are your guys' takes on the new Commander 2015 cards, any specific ones that interest you? Anyways here's my current decklist, I'd love to get some feedback/suggestions (alternative link here).
Played Teneb last night against mimeoplasm reanimator. First game was grindy but I had answers to everything... until he hits tooth and nail entwined and gets out vorinclex and prophet of kruphix, and i lost soon afterwards lol
2nd game I was on top of it, and played kinda slow to conserve my resources waiting for his bomb creatures. I was able to take this game just wish the right removal at the right time.
3rd game i had a faster clock, and was able to garruk overrun him when he misplayed and forgot to attack him.
Im loving some of these spoilers that have been released thus far. Some of these creatures are going to be fun as hell to play with. Not sure if any are for teneb just yet but we will see
That sounds like a really gross game. Battling Tooth and Nail could be easier with Aven Mindcensor. But those other games sound pretty fun! I'm glad you're still running strong. These new spoilers seem pretty great. I love the new G/B commander and have been putting all my other projects aside to brew around her. She is a total blast. Not quite a good fit in this deck, but she is still pretty solid. Everything else seems... decent? I'm not sure, lately I haven't really been finding anything that would fit well in this deck. Blade of Selves seems gross. Slap it on Kokusho, the Evening Star, attack, everyone gets wrecked.
Hey guys, it's been a while but I'm back and happy to see the thread still around. I had to take a break from magic for various reasons but I am in full commander swing once again. What are your guys' takes on the new Commander 2015 cards, any specific ones that interest you? Anyways here's my current decklist, I'd love to get some feedback/suggestions (alternative link here).
<snip>
I feel you with the taking break. My studies and my job has been a full time thing lately. But the Commander spoilers do seem pretty cool. I would keep an eye on that new sword, but besides that... I'm not quite sure.
As for your list, it seems really solid! A few suggestions:
Lignify -> Song of the Dryads
Lignify can stop a creature dead in its tracks, but for one more mana, you can stop any permanent. This really shuts down many decks, especially R/B/x decks, since they can't remove enchantments as well as other colors.
Sin Collector Seems a little out of place. I mean, sure you get to get rid of a card in someone's hand, but [c]Sadistic Hypnotist, just does the job much better. Why discard one card when you can fill your graveyard and strip their whole hand away?
Recollect -> Regrowth
Same card, one less mana. Regrowth also shouldn't be that hard to pick up, I believe it was in a Duel Deck at some point.
Lately, I have really been digging Liliana, Heretical Healer. Vess in my meta has a huge target on her lately and usually gets countered on sight. Healer may not have the tutoring capacity Vess has, but she is resilient to removal and can be recurred and easily flipped. I'm considering the following:
First off, gotta say I am a HUGE fan of this reanimator deck. It has inspired me to start creating my own which the new G/B experience commander really has me excited to use!
What is everyone's take on Meren of Clan Nel Toth in the deck? Or is she better off in a deck by herself?
First off, gotta say I am a HUGE fan of this reanimator deck. It has inspired me to start creating my own which the new G/B experience commander really has me excited to use!
What is everyone's take on Meren of Clan Nel Toth in the deck? Or is she better off in a deck by herself?
Hey! Thank you for taking a look! I'm glad we can inspire you! Even though you want to build Meren, we can help you! Here is a list I have been brewing lately. Come check it out! We can brainstorm together there.
So, Meren of Clan Nel Toth is an absolute house. From what you're asking, your asking what we think of her as:
A) A commander
B) In the 99
C) In Teneb
So here is a basic break down for her:
A) She is a advantage engine. She can come down really early, and just gives more value to your self sustaining creatures, like Sakura-Tribe Elder and such. From testing, it seems like the early game is ramp into small dudes and her, then sac to get counters on her. Once she's on three, you can just generate card advantage so fast with her reanimation effect. Her ability scales pretty well the length of the game: the longer the game, the better she becomes. If she gets to seven, you're solid.
B) Here she seems weaker, because you don't have her on stand by. She isn't something you would be happy to see in your hand unless you have a solid set up (at that point, she is verging near win-more) and she isn't something you would tutor for. Her experience ability also scales much better as a commander. If she is killed and/or exiled, you lost a lot of tempo setting up among counters to reanimate a fatty.
C) Same here. Teneb doesn't sacrifice enough creatures to get her online to be efficient. Even then, its high investment, low reward kind of card. Sheoldred seems much more consistent if you want this kind of effect in the 99.
So in conclusion, she is really strong as a commander, and really weak in the 99. Keep us posted!
Sin Collector Seems a little out of place. I mean, sure you get to get rid of a card in someone's hand, but Sadistic Hypnotist, just does the job much better. Why discard one card when you can fill your graveyard and strip their whole hand away?
Thoughts? I'll have a set review up in the coming weeks. Stay tuned Harvesters!
I don't know why I didn't think of Hypnotist considering I have one laying around. I personally find Liliana Vess far too useful to consider taking her out, however I could see Liliana, Heretical Healer being good in this deck so if you do try it out, make sure to tell us the results.
I forgot to ask in my last post but I was wondering if anyone had advice against voltron particularly in my meta there's Rafiq of the Many and Narset, Enlightened Master, Narset being the card/deck I'm having the most trouble with.
First off, gotta say I am a HUGE fan of this reanimator deck. It has inspired me to start creating my own which the new G/B experience commander really has me excited to use!
What is everyone's take on Meren of Clan Nel Toth in the deck? Or is she better off in a deck by herself?
Hey! Thank you for taking a look! I'm glad we can inspire you! Even though you want to build Meren, we can help you! Here is a list I have been brewing lately. Come check it out! We can brainstorm together there.
So, Meren of Clan Nel Toth is an absolute house. From what you're asking, your asking what we think of her as:
A) A commander
B) In the 99
C) In Teneb
So here is a basic break down for her:
A) She is a advantage engine. She can come down really early, and just gives more value to your self sustaining creatures, like Sakura-Tribe Elder and such. From testing, it seems like the early game is ramp into small dudes and her, then sac to get counters on her. Once she's on three, you can just generate card advantage so fast with her reanimation effect. Her ability scales pretty well the length of the game: the longer the game, the better she becomes. If she gets to seven, you're solid.
B) Here she seems weaker, because you don't have her on stand by. She isn't something you would be happy to see in your hand unless you have a solid set up (at that point, she is verging near win-more) and she isn't something you would tutor for. Her experience ability also scales much better as a commander. If she is killed and/or exiled, you lost a lot of tempo setting up among counters to reanimate a fatty.
C) Same here. Teneb doesn't sacrifice enough creatures to get her online to be efficient. Even then, its high investment, low reward kind of card. Sheoldred seems much more consistent if you want this kind of effect in the 99.
So in conclusion, she is really strong as a commander, and really weak in the 99. Keep us posted!
Thank you for this!!!
I have been torn ever since Meren was spoiled. Lately, I have been working on a deck that would represent my favorite play style: Reanimation. However, the trouble became trying to find the right colors. I LOVE B/W and adding in green made for a fun Junk Rites deck (which was my favorite standard deck to play). However, Meren is MUCH more of the kind of commander I thought of, but losing white would make me lose the ability to play my angels (Avacyn, Angel of Hope being one of my favorites).
Your opinion on the matter from testing has pushed me towards using Meren as a main commander rather than Teneb. Thank you so much for the help. I will definitely be posting on it soon
I was actually thinking about Liliana heretic healer as well it's so funny you mentioned her!
Her Planeswalker side is nice and her cost makes sure she is recurable with Sun Titan
I don't wanna replace my 5 drop Lili though. I would like to find a spot for it elsewhere. It's been doing well but I'll definitley find a way to get her in for testing
Also I do have an Aven in the deck
I would like to also try out Kokusho as well. I don't know why he hasn't made it in the list thus far. He could be great!
Life from the Loam -> Krosan Grip
More changes coming soon. Canyons never really gave me reach as much as it made for cute plays. Rogue's Passage is a much better sink and is needed to get Teneb through. I just wish we had something like Kessig Wolf Run in Abzan colors. Life from the Loam was a serious under performer, and I always hated what I ended up milling and often just wasted two mana per turn. K Grip will help with eliminating combo decks.
We'll get a set review up in a couple of days. So far, Origins is really exciting. Not quite sure if anything will go in this deck. So far, Teneb hasn't gotten many cool new toys from the most recent sets. But in a new development, I have some cards I am willing to cut:
Seedborn Muse: I wanted it for the Prophet of Kruphix like effect, to give my spells and creatures reach during other player's turns. With this, the instant and cute flash creature number was increased and Winding Canyons was added. The thing is, this card made the deck try to do too many things at once. This is often a problem I have with this build, since there are so many different ways to build it. I decided to cut the fluff and make the deck proactive, rather than reactive. Play threats. Get wrecked. That should be the basic way the deck plays, with lots of removal to clear blockers and obstacles.
Dark Deal: This one makes me super sad, but whenever I see it, I never want to use it. One of two things happen when I get to this card. One: I don't want to discard the hand I have, since it has lots of no-creature spells that are not as easily recurable. The only time it netted me lots of profit was a hand chuck full of land. And two: I don't have enough cards in hand. When you cast this and have two cards in hand, its heartbreaking. I feel like if we need a wheel effect, Memory Jar is probably better. I really don't want to see this go, so if anyone has some advice, I would really appreciate it!
Another concern Rutherjc119 had was that this deck has no game enders. Meanings spells that just win on the spot. Examples of this would be Tooth and Nail grabbing Craterhoof Behemoth and Avenger of Zendikar. We have plenty of bombs and grind, but no enders. Living Death can't even be considered one, because you have to wait a whole turn. So, what we need is some sort of massive anthem. This may mean Craterhoof will top out the curve of the deck once again. Thoughts?
Again, Origins will be up soon. I love it all, but not sure what to bring in. I would like so hear some feedback from you all before I go into a set review. In the review, I won't go over every white, black, or green bomb, but instead a handful of cards to consider, whether or not they go into this list.
Enjoy! Happy 4th of July Everyone!
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
It's about to go down
Lets talk Planeswalker's First:
Nissa, Vastwood Seer: The Borderland Ranger ability is cool, and seven lands is a no-biggie for this deck. The problem comes with her Planeswalker side. Her +1 is wicked powerful draw ability and is fantastic. Her -2 is odd, because we can only have one token on the field at a time, and it is only one token. Her final is very lackluster here in EDH. 6 lands are now dudes? Sure, it could be powerful, but it takes a lot of setting up. So lets evaluate her as she is: a mana dork that can give you card advantage later in the game. I can't decide for sure, but this is a slot currently sitting Wood Elves. Is the slow ramp worth the late game advantage?
Liliana, Heretical Healer: 2/3 lifelinker isn't bad, and her trigger is really easy to set off. Plus, giving us a body with her trigger is really awesome as well. So as a planeswalker? She scales with Liliana Vess. Her +1 is slightly more powerful, making everyone discard rather than one player, but we give up to tutor ability for reanimation. Her ultimate is really hard to set off, and I can't imagine she'll survive by then. Vess's ultimate is a little more back breaking to fall back on. So is she better than Vess? Again, the low mana cost helps, but there is quite a few hoops to jump through. Testing will have to be done here as well.
Kytheon, Hero of Akros: 2/1 for one? Doesn't really fit into this deck. Making him indestructible does seem nice, but triggering him will be a little harder than the other two. For his planeswalker side, Gideon's effect was never that great to start with, so little Giddy doesn't bring anything to the table, His +1 is worth discussing, since making Teneb indestructible makes our recursion much more resilient. But again, that is a lot of steps for 'conditional' protection of one creature. I think I'd pass on Gideon.
The planeswalkers seem cool, but here is the main issue. They are watered down versions of cards we already run (Nissa -> Wood Elves and Liliana -> Liliana Vess) where you have to jump through hoops to get a slightly powerful card advantage engine. The issue with planeswalkers is that they are obviously powerful if they can stay around, but usually draw their merit based on what they do when you land them the first turn. Liliana Vess is a Vampiric Tutor that you get to do again if she survives. Garruk Wildspeaker is a ramp spell that lets you Overrun if he sticks around a turn. These planeswalkers don't seem as backbreaking. I will test Nissa and Liliana, but I am not sure if they will make the cut.
Now, for the normal, boring stuff:
Archangel of Tithes: Seems really interesting. I like the Ghostly Prison effect on a creature. Her mana cost is a little much, but it shouldn't be much of an issue. The thing is, our 4CMC creature slots is beginning to stagnate a little bit. If I want to add her, we're going to have to cut a card like Linvala, Keeper of Silence to keep balance. I have to test this a little more, but maybe we need a prison effect stapled to a creature.
Erebos's Titan: Big dude is big, and his recursion is very real. Discarding means we can add fuel for Teneb. His indestructibility is a little odd, and most likely will rarely turn on in EDH. This means that he is a 5/5 that can recur himself for 4 mana. Feel like Archangel of Tithes would be better.
Languish: Some people thought this would be a good replacement for Toxic Deluge, but there are a couple of problems with that. One, Deluge gets under Gaddock Teeg. Two: If you're gonna play a 4 mana wrath, there are better options. And three: if you're looking to get under indestructibility and such, Black Sun's Zenith is better, or...
Tragic Arrogance: Many people are buzzing about this card; me included. It is a Cataclysm effect that doesn't hit lands. However, if I am understanding this correctly, it gets under hexproof. This is because you choose creatures, not target them. Then the controllers sacrifice them, which also gets passed indestructible. This works really well with us, since we run a low number of Planeswalkers, artifacts, and enchantments. Creature's isn't a concern, because you can just pick Teneb as your VIP, wipe the board, the attack and recur someone. Also, YOU choose the permanents that get destroyed. That means you can play around this so that all fliers are eliminated, as well as all prison effects. I think this is a fantastic board wipe. I wonder if it can replace Merciless Eviction. I want to add it in, and only time will tell on where it sits.
Woodland Bellower: At the time of this post, this card has a total of 8 targets. The non-legendary clause stinks since we can't grab Saffi Eriskdotter or Gaddock Teeg, which would probably be really gross targets and make this card instantly playable. Can you imagine? Recur my big dude. Go get Saffi. Sac my big dude. Get it back and get Gaddock Teeg. No spells for you. But, unfortunately this is a little fixed, so I may pass. If you can run it in your build for more value, then I would. Decks with Birthing Pod engines would love this.
Evolutionary Leap: While I am not going to add this, you guys who were budget building finally got a Survival of the Fittest effect. This is an awesome budget replacement if you can't find a Survival or don't need to shell out the money. I totally understand that. This card is awesome for you guys and please please, run it!
Sword of the Animist: This seems kind of awesome. Gets us a land, as well as makes Teneb a 3 turn clock. The only issue is that we only run 9 basic lands. If I decide to add this little gem, we're going to have to change our mana base.
Animist's Awakening: Are you too lazy to ramp? Would you rather just sink your mana for turn and gamble with the top of your library? Then you're like me! Seriously, this card does seem very powerful. It's very possible to make back a good portion of mana. I was thinking of a similar effect this deck does, and I realized, Mirrari's Wake. Bear with me. Wake doubles our mana for 5 mana. What if we could get a smaller increase in mana that is permanent and thins your library? I feel the thinning is much better of an effect. Of course, if you're going to pour 7 mana into a ramp spell, Boundless Realms seems better. But this has an opportunity for tempo, since the lands come into play untapped. So this takes some testing, but I am excited about this.
Demonic Pact: Seems cool, but without a Qasali Pridemage, I don't even think I'd enjoy running this. love the art though
Managorger Hydra: It has evasion and can get REAL big real fast. Doesn't seem like much, but I feel that this guy can be really solid. Will test him out.
Dark Petition: While it seems strong and a psuedo reprint of Demonic Tutor you're better off running Liliana Vess.
The Great Aurora: I love Warp World effects, and this really makes me want to run it. There is a bit of a double edged sword though. On one hand, the shuffling away of a hand can get rid of potential disruption, such as Cyclonic Rift. Of course, it can give players disruption in their new hand... like Cyclonic Rift. I think if I wanted an effect like this, I'd run Genesis Wave and that is a bit much already, given the number of Non-creature spells we run.
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder: The draw effect is really powerful, but can also get really out of control. You need to be able to generate mana as fast as you draw cards. He maybe a stronger Bloodgift Demon, and Harvester of Souls maybe a more fixed version, so I don't know if this is a sweet spot between the two. Those are the three draw demons currently fighting for the slot. I'll elave it to you uys: what do you think about this tank of a draw engine?
Shadows of the Past: If Kothophed seemed too much, this maybe just right. Scrying is really awesome off any creature dying. This can fix our draws and give us a lot of advantage off of boardwipes. If anyone is looking for a budget replacement for Sylvan Library, this maybe worth looking into.
So, what is the verdict? Origins is the last core set, and honestly, this was an awesome way to end it. Now, we're going to enter an era of fast sets and new tools for Commander. It maybe too much to keep up with, but I am excited. Here are the proposed changes for the moment:
Mirari's Wake -> Animist's Awakening
Merciless Eviction ->Tragic Arrogance
Of course, these are not for sure, but these are slots that are going to be tested. Here are cards that are being considered and/or are on the fence about:
Sword of the Animist
Liliana, Heretical Healer
Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Archangel of Tithes
Managorger Hydra
Did you enjoy the review? Feel that I left something out? Want to discuss a card's potential a little more? Feel free to comment below! Also, before I sign off, here is a new and exciting update:
Seedborn Muse -> Craterhoof Behemoth
The king is back. Long live the king.
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
I need to post my list soon, I keep delaying.
Yes!!! Finally!!!
Hey! Welcome back! Thank you for the kind words. I don't think that it isn't that I don't like Kothophed, it is just I need to feel out his triggering ability. It is either going to be perfect or a little greedy, which I am not sure what would curve better in this deck. If I run it, I would probably cut Bloodgift Demon. See, the thing about cards like this is when they get spoiled, there usually is a better or more fixed version already out there. Take Harvester of Souls for example. The same mana cost as Kothophed, lose flying and gain deathtouch. While you don't trigger of every dying permanent, you can still draw a lot of cards AND turn of the draw whenever you want. Bloodgift Demon is nice because if I don't want to draw anymore, I can just attack into a big dude and recur him later. Kothophed adds an element of unpredictability into the mix. He is a high risk/high reward type of card. Of course, I suppose that makes me a bad black mage if I am hesitant to jump on that train.
Overall, I don't think it is that I don't like him. I just need to test him first to see if he is a good fit.
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
I had a battle against a good riku deck the other night. Thank god for Resolute archangel for resetting my life total twice and his once, and thank god for sheold red and rune scarred demon. It was a crazy battle of 1for1 for a long time until I finally pulled ahead with the mentioned 7 drops above. He was pissed afterwards because after a board wipe and a worinclex he thought he won
I really haven't added anything new to the deck. Still want to add in a sac out let and possibly fiend hunter but spots aren't easy to find in this deck lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Did you guys recently see the new spoilers for Battle of Zendikar? There are the new duals (Calling them Slow Duals for now) for ally colors!
On another note I revamped my Tenebu deck list so here is the current version:
1x Teneb, the Harvester
Creatures 25
1x Academy Rector
1x Acidic Slime
1x Ashen Rider
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Dimir House Card
1x Dragonlord Dromoka
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fiend Hunter
1x Genesis
1x Grand Abolisher
1x Karmic Guide
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Reveillark
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Saffi Eriksdotter
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Sun Titan
1x Triskelion
1x Viscera Seer
1x Wood Elves
1x Yosei, the Morning Star
Enchantments 9
1x Animate Dead
1x Exploration
1x Greater Good
1x Mirari's Wake
1x Necromancy
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
1x Altar of Dementia
1x Birthing Pod
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Phyrexian Altar
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
Instants 6
1x Eladamri's Call
1x Entomb
1x Krosan Grip
1x Sword's to Plowshares
1x Utter End
1x Vampiric Tutor
Sorceries 17
1x Beacon of Unrest
1x Buried Alive
1x Damnation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Jarad's Orders
1x Life from the Loam
1x Living Death
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Nature's Lore
1x Reanimate
1x Skyshroud Claim
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Unburial Rites
1x Victimize
1x Vindicate
1x Wrath of God
1x Yawgmoth's Will
Lands 35
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bayou
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Command Tower
1x Fetid Heath
1x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
1x High Market
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Strip Mine
2x Swamp
1x Temple Garden
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Woodland Cemetery
Some notable additions in the deck were Yawgmoth's Will, Phyrexian Tower, Life from the Loam, Wasteland. Yawgmoth's Will has been a tremendous power-up for this deck, it allows for plenty of plays during lategame. Recently added in Life from the Loam so going to test out how well it does with my Tenebu build, Wasteland has been added to keep the redundancy of the pseudo-strip mine lock, and finally got my hands on a Phyrexian Tower!!! I love to have lands that can tap to sack to protect my important creatures being exiled.
I also have a bit of a conundrum, does any Teneb users here use Blasting Station as a sac outlet to go infinite? If so, has it been useful to combo out with Fiend Hunter, Sun Titan, Saffi Eriksdotter, Karmic Guide, or Reveillark. Right now I'm not sure how useful it would be if I add it in and if I do add it in what would be recommended to take out? The deck list I am running currently is really tight as it is.
Abrupt Decay -> Acidic Slime
Nature's Lore -> Sakura-tribe Elder
Merciless Eviction -> Tragic Arrogance
Dark Deal -> Triumph of the Hordes
The first three are pretty self explanatory. These spells were swapped for higher value. Acidic Slime can hit a broader range of threats than Decay and can be reanimated. Elder can ramp better than Lore, and also can be reanimated. Arrogance is the boardwipe that has been designed for this deck and solves the problems Eviction solves (although Sigarda match ups are now slightly worse). Now the last one is something worth discussing. Dark Deal was a slow card. It was either underwhelming, or I didn't want to use it with a hand packed with value. So for now, an alternative win condition will take that slot, but this is really up in the air. I have been testing Triumph, Siege Rhino and Birthing Pod in these slots, and haven't really settled yet.
I will post more soon, along with a game report! Spoiler alert; I win
Hey! Thanks for hanging around while I was gone. It sounds like you have been having some pretty crazy games with big dudes! And I know, cutting in this deck is super hard.
The new dual lands seem really good for Commander, but we can only use one. I am a little more excited for Expeditions, since players can now get their hands on the fetchlands and shocks for this deck! I will probably add the Green White land, but we shall see.
I think your deck looks super solid. I'll look over it more in depth in a couple of days. For now, regarding Blasting Station. I like the card. It is a highly useful sac outlet and can lead to strong infinite combos. There are a couple of things that nerfs this. One: Krosan Grip wrecks this. Also, people can respond to you comboing and disrupt you, so make sure you announce and explain the combo BEFORE you go off, so if someone is going to respond, they do it so you can respond by going off. There is a whole philosophy about comboing in multiplayer. I'll talk about that later. If you're going to run Blasting Station and such, make sure you play Grand Abolisher
Enjoy everyone and have a great week! Will check in again soon. Great to be back!
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R Márton Stromgald
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GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Thoughts on Life from the Loam in this deck? I only played a couple games with it in the build so far, however I have never seem to draw into it or tutor for it yet, so I don't know how it will impact the deck yet. If it doesn't go well I feel opted to switch the card out for Enlightened Tutor.
On another note, I am really excited on the expedition lands! I am willing to dump money just to get all the lands for both my Teneb and Intet deck!
Awesome, yeah some people don't know exactly. I do really like your list though. I wanted to ask; how do you intend on winning? You have lots of fuel and means to reanimate, but there are no mass pumps or evasion outlets or anything like that. Are you just going through the attrition route? Also, you should look into running Sword of Feast and Famine. It is a super engine in Teneb.
Life from the Loam is... meh. I've tried it, taken it out, and tried it again. I assume that with the amount of fetches you're running, you'll get some more use out of it. But it seems like such a bad card. Whenever I play it, I always hit non creature spells which is rough in this deck, as you only have two ways to get spells back. If you want to run Life from the Loam, then you need to run a good deal of fetches with Exploration and Azusa, Lost but Seeking (which you do have) and a good number of creatures (which you don't have). 25 is much too low to make sure you efficiently hit bombs off dredge. When I used to play Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, the creature count was 35-40, and that was a little better but still had problems. With 35 to 40, your ratio for hitting a creature or land is about 60%, which is better than your odds right now, which is 50%. Thats way too much of a variance to make Life from the Loam viable. It very much so is a build-around-me card, but if you're going to build around a card, might as well build around something better, like Birthing Pod.
Yeah my wallet is crying right now. I don't know how I'm going to explain this to my family. "Hi folks, I have a problem" I don't really need the expeditions for this deck, but I need it for all of my others. Do you know by chance if they're going to be foil? And I'm sure there has to be a smart way to buy into these. I think I'm going to wait on buying into BTFZ for now.
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{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Sword of Feast and Famine is absolutely amazing (I run it in my other 3 EDH decks!), the only reason I don't have it in this deck is that in my meta it is really harsh on the artifact/enchantment hate and I run more of an artifact light route. It enables a lot of sick plays but it is easily nullified, however I am willingly able to try input it in back in the deck to try it again (There are other options in the way of untapping lands such as Bear Umbra and Nature's Will).
Yeah I can see Life from the Loam being not that great, I had some times where I mill myself via Altar of Dementia and hit cards I rather have in the hand instead of the grave. I run Birthing Pod in my deck and it is really great, only downfall is in attrition games because I vary in having 2-3 creatures of all cmc that I run. I guess it's time to switch out Life from the Loam to either Enlightened Tutor or Sword of Feast and Famine.
To answer your question on how I win, it is usually via burst combo, Sheoldred/Kokusho Drain, or Sheoldred/Yosei Lockdown. Depending on which hand I keep I end up winning by T5/T6 consistently, in a more control heavy pod I opt to go for the more longer route and set myself up for the un-counterable reanimation spell or fetching out my Grand Abolisher or Dragonlord Dromoka before starting to combo. I don't rely much on Tenebu to lay the beatdown, he is more like my backup plan and also my constant reliable reanimator to gain value in attrition matches.
As of now I feel like the deck is almost complete, I'm just missing that last 10% to perfect it. Is there any part of the deck that seems off? Or any weak links in the list?
For the Zendikar Expedition Lands the full art fetches, shocks, and tango/battalion (name still pending) lands are all going to be 100% foiled. The chance of pulling one so far is 1/640 packs so I heard, and one is guaranteed in a case. Well so far from what I seen and read, the estimated price will be around $80-$100 for the lands that don't splash blue. The ones that splash blue are most likely going to be over $160. I am holding back from buying BFZ atm, but once it is released depending on what gets spoiled, I might just go all out and buy singles of the full art lands once they get in circulation.
I'm dredgeing with teneb on the field, just trying to get stuff, then when i dredge I hit Sun titan, Grave Titan, and Reanimate dead After I swung in with teneb not blocked... needless to say after he flipped his top card and reveled a useless card he scooped lol
Also finaly got me a murmuring bosk as well. Still loving the deck, but school has kept me quite occupied so I haven't played much. After looking at the spoiler I don't see anything that should really be included into the deck from the new set so... o well lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Life from the Loam is very strong in reanimation heavy lists, but lists like mine that tend to use your graveyard as a second hand can't necessarily benefit in the same way. Loam keeps going in and out of my list. Maybe if I ran all nine fetches it would be a bit better, but then we're going into combo territory, and Hermit Druid and company gets the job done much better in hyper competitive lists.
Yeah Battle for Zendikar... okay I'm going to do my official set review AFTER Thursday when we start toying around and testing with some of the cards. But I really was disappointed in this set. The design feels very rushed and mixed up to me. There were no cards that popped out to me and said WOW, that's incredible! Which is kind of sad. One thing I will say though is watch out for Emeria Angel.
I preordered my copies of her already. She is going to be a house in Commander. In this deck? Not so sure, but late game lands as recursion seems kind of awesome. The fact that we can reliably protect her, and she can cheat permanents into play under Gaddock Teeg is pretty sweet. Problem: My curve is high enough as it is, so somebody has to go.
The Eldrazi: They don't shuffle in your library now, which makes them sweet reanimation targets... but I mean, who cares? Ulamog of the Ceaseless Hunger without haste is a sitting duck. The rest are pretty lackluster without their cast triggers. Void Winnower seems... spicy, but I'm not sure how well that plays in. It acts as some kind of evasion for Teneb, but most good fliers in EDH are seven CMC, so a bit of a bummer there.
Drana, Liberator of Malakir: She seems really awesome, and note that because she has first strike, her deal damage effect will trigger before your other creatures deal combat damage. So she seems good enough, just not sure where she can fit into the current deck. Also, gross pre order price tag.
I think time will tell for this set. I can write a more detailed review in the coming weeks, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Start testing the angel, but thats pretty much it.
Cheers everyone!
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R Márton Stromgald
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GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Emeria angel? Landfall burdies? Lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Well folks, its that time again, for a set review. However, I am only going to go over a few cards and not the entire set. As always, if you see a card you really like but it isn't on this list, I would be more than happy to discuss it. But until then, these are my initial observations:
Emeria Shepherd: NOT ANGEL, shepherd. Shepherd seems like a monster of a house, until you realize she gets worse the more colors you play. We run just about 8 plains total, which means we won't trigger her prime ability all that often. In this deck, she reads "Landfall, return target non-land permanent to your hand." It isn't bad, but this next guy maybe better.
Greenwarden of Murasa: Double Eternal Witness is awesome. I'm not sure yet how well she fits in (testing needs to be done), but with the ability to recur her again and again, she maybe pure value town. Worth testing.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: This guy is worth talking about because he makes Teneb a turn three clock for the rest of the game. This means that you don't need any set up with Teneb, just cast him and swing. I really like that about him, as well as his ability to give you dudes. But I'm not sure if a four mana untouchable anthem is worth slotting into this deck. Still, it is worth a shot.
Drana, Liberator of Malakir: She is super fine I like her ability to pump all of your creatures, making your hatebears into monsters. Note that first strike means she puts counters on your creatures before they deal damage. It may make combat math a head ache, but I like it. Worth testing.
Ob Nixilis Reignited: Ob puts in work, drawing your cards like Phyrexian Arena and Murdering blockers. The thing is, he does a lot of things, but none of them well. I don't think he is focused enough. In addition, we have to consider our five mana planeswalker slot, taken up by Liliana Vess currently. Lily can get us either Arena or any kind of removal. So there is that to consider.
Undergrowth Champion: There has been a lot of hype around this guy... but dies to Doom Blade? I hate that argument, but its true. Very little removal is damage oriented in EDH, so this guy may get big, but not insane. I'd rather run Forgotten Ancient.
Shambling Vent: I'm going to test this bad boy out, but he seems a little lack luster. I'm waiting for the B/G manland to make a defined decision, so stay tuned.
Canopy Vista: I like these tango lands, just wish we had them for out other two color pairs. For now, Vista can be fetched and grabbed with Wood Elves so it is worth the slot.
The Eldrazi: Real quick, lets talk about these guys as a unit. While they're great for some decks, they don't sync very well with Teneb. Mainly, their synergy for other Eldrazi and colorless creatures (which we don't have either). Because of this, I don't think the Eldrazi are a good fit. The two I want to talk about are Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Void Winnower. Ulamog is a house in of himself, and can be reanimated this time around. However, he must be cast to get his exile triggers. This is a bit of a issue because he is now less attractive to reanimate. Also, being indestructible means 9 times out of ten he will be exiled, meaning you can't bring him back again and again for continuous value. Even with the attack trigger, that means he needs to survive a rotation around the table to attack. And even if hypothetically you give him haste when you cast him from your hand and then attack into someone, we can't use what we exiled from their library. That scenario is also super magical christmas land. So my vote for Teneb is no Ulamog. Real quick, lets talk about Void Winnower, aka "Your opponents can't even". Note her synergy with Gaddock Teeg meaning she can really make your opponent's life hell. She can also be reanimated, which means you can cheat her out early, then back her up for protection. With shroud, she becomes virtually undefinable. However keep in mind that no matter how much tax you stack against your opponents, most spot removal is one CMC or three CMC, and that removal is usually exile. So you may not get repeted value out of her. Still, its good to know that she can fit into this deck semi decently.
So everyone, that is our set review! Overall, this set was pretty lack luster, but there are somethings worth trying. I think we as EDH players are just dying for Commander 2015. So that is where we'll see some value. Until then, keep on harvesting!
Changes (10/5/15)
Mana Confluence -> Canopy Vista
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
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BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
2nd game I was on top of it, and played kinda slow to conserve my resources waiting for his bomb creatures. I was able to take this game just wish the right removal at the right time.
3rd game i had a faster clock, and was able to garruk overrun him when he misplayed and forgot to attack him.
Im loving some of these spoilers that have been released thus far. Some of these creatures are going to be fun as hell to play with. Not sure if any are for teneb just yet but we will see
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Land (38)
1x Arcane Lighthouse
1x Blossoming Sands
1x City of Brass
1x Elfhame Palace
4x Forest
1x Gavony Township
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Godless Shrine
1x Golgari Guildgate
1x Graypelt Refuge
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Jungle Hollow
1x Murmuring Bosk
1x Orzhov Guildgate
1x Overgrown Tomb
4x Plains
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Sandsteppe Citadel
1x Scoured Barrens
1x Sunpetal Grove
3x Swamp
1x Temple Garden
1x Temple of Malady
1x Temple of Plenty
1x Temple of Silence
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Windswept Heath
1x Deathrender
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
Creature (27)
1x Acidic Slime
1x Ashen Rider
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1x Bloodgift Demon
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Disciple of Bolas
1x Dragonlord Dromoka
1x Eidolon of Blossoms
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fiend Hunter
1x Grand Abolisher
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Resolute Archangel
1x Restoration Angel
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Shriekmaw
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Sin Collector
1x Sun Titan
1x Viscera Seer
1x Wilt-Leaf Liege
1x Wood Elves
1x Animate Dead
1x Greater Good
1x Lignify
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Phyrexian Arena
Sorcery (13)
1x Damnation
1x Dark Deal
1x Diabolic Tutor
1x Harmonize
1x Jarad's Orders
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Living Death
1x Merciless Eviction
1x Nature's Lore
1x Promise of Power
1x Recollect
1x Unburial Rites
1x Wrath of God
Instant (10)
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Abzan Charm
1x Dismember
1x Krosan Grip
1x Mortify
1x Path to Exile
1x Putrefy
1x Ready / Willing
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Utter End
Planeswalker (1)
1x Liliana Vess
That sounds like a really gross game. Battling Tooth and Nail could be easier with Aven Mindcensor. But those other games sound pretty fun! I'm glad you're still running strong. These new spoilers seem pretty great. I love the new G/B commander and have been putting all my other projects aside to brew around her. She is a total blast. Not quite a good fit in this deck, but she is still pretty solid. Everything else seems... decent? I'm not sure, lately I haven't really been finding anything that would fit well in this deck. Blade of Selves seems gross. Slap it on Kokusho, the Evening Star, attack, everyone gets wrecked.
I feel you with the taking break. My studies and my job has been a full time thing lately. But the Commander spoilers do seem pretty cool. I would keep an eye on that new sword, but besides that... I'm not quite sure.
As for your list, it seems really solid! A few suggestions:
Lignify -> Song of the Dryads
Lignify can stop a creature dead in its tracks, but for one more mana, you can stop any permanent. This really shuts down many decks, especially R/B/x decks, since they can't remove enchantments as well as other colors.
Sin Collector Seems a little out of place. I mean, sure you get to get rid of a card in someone's hand, but [c]Sadistic Hypnotist, just does the job much better. Why discard one card when you can fill your graveyard and strip their whole hand away?
Recollect -> Regrowth
Same card, one less mana. Regrowth also shouldn't be that hard to pick up, I believe it was in a Duel Deck at some point.
Lately, I have really been digging Liliana, Heretical Healer. Vess in my meta has a huge target on her lately and usually gets countered on sight. Healer may not have the tutoring capacity Vess has, but she is resilient to removal and can be recurred and easily flipped. I'm considering the following:
Liliana Vess -> Liliana, Heretical Healer
Thoughts? I'll have a set review up in the coming weeks. Stay tuned Harvesters!
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BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
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GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
What is everyone's take on Meren of Clan Nel Toth in the deck? Or is she better off in a deck by herself?
EDH
WOrzhova's PoliticsB
UStensia's SaintW
U1000 FacesB
UIzzet's GambitR
RUBThe Rose's ThornBUR
RUGEternal HuntGUR
UWBArchitect's FoundryBWU
BBlood PactB
Hey! Thank you for taking a look! I'm glad we can inspire you! Even though you want to build Meren, we can help you! Here is a list I have been brewing lately. Come check it out! We can brainstorm together there.
So, Meren of Clan Nel Toth is an absolute house. From what you're asking, your asking what we think of her as:
A) A commander
B) In the 99
C) In Teneb
So here is a basic break down for her:
A) She is a advantage engine. She can come down really early, and just gives more value to your self sustaining creatures, like Sakura-Tribe Elder and such. From testing, it seems like the early game is ramp into small dudes and her, then sac to get counters on her. Once she's on three, you can just generate card advantage so fast with her reanimation effect. Her ability scales pretty well the length of the game: the longer the game, the better she becomes. If she gets to seven, you're solid.
B) Here she seems weaker, because you don't have her on stand by. She isn't something you would be happy to see in your hand unless you have a solid set up (at that point, she is verging near win-more) and she isn't something you would tutor for. Her experience ability also scales much better as a commander. If she is killed and/or exiled, you lost a lot of tempo setting up among counters to reanimate a fatty.
C) Same here. Teneb doesn't sacrifice enough creatures to get her online to be efficient. Even then, its high investment, low reward kind of card. Sheoldred seems much more consistent if you want this kind of effect in the 99.
So in conclusion, she is really strong as a commander, and really weak in the 99. Keep us posted!
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
I forgot to ask in my last post but I was wondering if anyone had advice against voltron particularly in my meta there's Rafiq of the Many and Narset, Enlightened Master, Narset being the card/deck I'm having the most trouble with.
Thank you for this!!!
I have been torn ever since Meren was spoiled. Lately, I have been working on a deck that would represent my favorite play style: Reanimation. However, the trouble became trying to find the right colors. I LOVE B/W and adding in green made for a fun Junk Rites deck (which was my favorite standard deck to play). However, Meren is MUCH more of the kind of commander I thought of, but losing white would make me lose the ability to play my angels (Avacyn, Angel of Hope being one of my favorites).
Your opinion on the matter from testing has pushed me towards using Meren as a main commander rather than Teneb. Thank you so much for the help. I will definitely be posting on it soon
EDH
WOrzhova's PoliticsB
UStensia's SaintW
U1000 FacesB
UIzzet's GambitR
RUBThe Rose's ThornBUR
RUGEternal HuntGUR
UWBArchitect's FoundryBWU
BBlood PactB
Her Planeswalker side is nice and her cost makes sure she is recurable with Sun Titan
I don't wanna replace my 5 drop Lili though. I would like to find a spot for it elsewhere. It's been doing well but I'll definitley find a way to get her in for testing
Also I do have an Aven in the deck
I would like to also try out Kokusho as well. I don't know why he hasn't made it in the list thus far. He could be great!
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.