I typically try to play a pillow-fort style game answering things that come at me. My wincons tend to be along the lines of donating Transcendence/Illusions or stealing something with Gilded Drake.
Cards that may be getting the boot:
Karmic Justice --> Not sure it does anything. I don't have too many threats that demand answering. Seems to just sit there.
Some cards that I am thinking about:
1x Bribery
1x Counterflux -----> Instead of Suffocating Blast? Blast has to have a target
1x Crib Swap
1x Delaying Shield
1x Hallowed Burial
1x Journey to Nowhere
1x Kor Haven
1x Rest in Peace
1x Scroll Rack
1x Spin into Myth
1x Trading Post
1x Weathered Wayfarer
Here are some cards I find useful in my Zedruu list.
Delaying Shield - good defense, and could be a rattlesnake if someone can hit you for a ton of damage but you have the mana available to donate it. It also neuters Voltron generals, which is a pretty nice upside. Form of the Dragon - Handy if someone has a powerful lifegain deck, not a bad finisher if you have some flying dudes or ways to burn to the face. Statecraft - good for neutering a creature-heavy deck, or defense if you have a bunch of chump blockers. Aeon Chronicler - card draw which makes itself bigger. Very good with Reliquary Tower or Venser's Journal. Bazaar Trader - works best with temporary steal cards like Dominus of Fealty, Insurrection, Chromeshell Crab or Puca's Mischief (give yourself the creature you just "borrowed", overriding the temporary control with a permanent one). Free donates can't hurt either if you have Zedruu out. Great with Kher Keep or other cheap chump maker, like Nuisance Engine or Sacred Mesa. Psychosis Crawler - can be huge if you're drawing a ton of cards, which tends to happen, especially if you get the land-trading cards. Spectral Searchlight - political ramp. Copy Enchantment - awesome if Illusions is out. Probably worth the slot since you have a good number of enchantments. Hanna, Ship's Navigator - recursion for the enchantments that break. Vow of Flight - an interesting pseudo-removal that also works politically. It depends on your meta but could be a good card.
Thanks for the response.
Delaying Shield- I saw this, only thought of it from a rattlesnake PoV though. Never considered voltron general though. I'll likely find room for this.
Form of the Dragon- This makes me lol. Never thought of this card. Pretty sweet. If I go more donate heavy I'll include this.
Statecraft- I don't think I have enough chumps in the deck to warrant this. If I go more donate heavy I might include it though.
Aeon Chronicler- I never know how to feel about this card. It's good, but it seems like his draw doesn't start happening until too late in the game.. I'll think more on this.
Bazaar Trader- Seems fun, I doubt he'll find a spot.
Psychosis Crawler- already in the list
Spectral Searchlight-hmm.. My playgroup runs few mass artifact destruction, so this may warrant a spot over darksteel ingot
Copy Enchantment- Not sure how I forgot about this card, but it's going to find it's way in..
My main problem is that I'm not sure if I should drop the sunforger package and go more donate or not.. I feel like the deck might not be focused enough, but I'm still play testing to try to decide.
I think the Sunforger package is just fine, it's powerful and relatively unique in RWU. I might toss in a couple more R/W instant counterspells and removal to improve the control aspect a little bit, stuff like Hindering Light and Swords to Plowshares, but I would have to see how the Sunforger runs.
I would consider taking out the Group Hug cards (Howling Mine, Font of Mythos) and replace them with more politically-inclined cards, like the Searchlight and Bazaar Trader on a creature I just stole with Dominus of Fealty or Puca's Mischief. Typically Zedruu wants to play more control, and giving your opponents cards indiscriminately is not necessarily what I would want to do. By using cards like Vow of Flight I can help other people, but only when I want to help them and it's in my best interest to do so. At the least I would replace Howling Mine with Temple Bell.
Where da Thought Lash? Exile target player's deck is p good (put Zedruu's donating ability on top of the stack after not paying its cumulative upkeep).
Where da Thought Lash? Exile target player's deck is p good (put Zedruu's donating ability on top of the stack after not paying its cumulative upkeep).
This does not work, after you donate the though lash you still control the trigger to sacrifice it which you can't do as you no longer control thought lash. You can't sacrifice permanents you don't control.
This does not work, after you donate the though lash you still control the trigger to sacrifice it which you can't do as you no longer control thought lash. You can't sacrifice permanents you don't control.
Oh it works. It sacrifices on their end because the trigger to sac will resolve no matter who controls thought lash, exiling the library of whoever controls it at that point (the trigger doesn't magically forget about thought lash after it's donated.). But it was errated two months ago to make sure whoever didn't pay the upkeep cost in the first place was the one that lost their deck.
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
Oh it works. It sacrifices on their end because the trigger to sac will resolve no matter who controls thought lash, exiling the library of whoever controls it at that point (the trigger doesn't magically forget about thought lash after it's donated.). But it was errated two months ago to make sure whoever didn't pay the upkeep cost in the first place was the one that lost their deck.
No. Thought Lash still won't be sacrificed. You will remove your library from the game. The errata(which was issued in Nov. 2004 to the best of my gatherer-fu) states :When a player doesn't pay Thought Lash's cumulative upkeep, that player exiles all cards from his or her library.
Thought Lash will still be in play, as you can't sacrifice a permanent you don't control. This is per rule 701.14a
701.14a To sacrifice a permanent, its controller moves it from the battlefield directly to its owner‘s graveyard. A player can‘t sacrifice something that isn‘t a permanent, or something that‘s a permanent he or she doesn‘t control. Sacrificing a permanent doesn‘t destroy it, so regeneration or other effects that replace destruction can‘t affect this action.
No. Thought Lash still won't be sacrificed. You will remove your library from the game. The errata(which was issued in Nov. 2004 to the best of my gatherer-fu) states :When a player doesn't pay Thought Lash's cumulative upkeep, that player exiles all cards from his or her library.
Thought Lash will still be in play, as you can't sacrifice a permanent you don't control. This is per rule 701.14a
701.14a To sacrifice a permanent, its controller moves it from the battlefield directly to its owner‘s graveyard. A player can‘t sacrifice something that isn‘t a permanent, or something that‘s a permanent he or she doesn‘t control. Sacrificing a permanent doesn‘t destroy it, so regeneration or other effects that replace destruction can‘t affect this action.
You are wrong. Please try the rule forums or google the newest thought lash errata. This was a whole issue a few months ago due to zedruu.
The player who just received the donation can sacrifice thought lash just fine. Sacrificing WASN'T a cost for the trigger to start, not paying the upkeep was. The sac happens on the resolve only, after the player was donated the card in response to the upkeep not being payed.
Let me go into detail quickly: EDIT: Changed to correct way
1. Upkeep trigger goes on stack for player A
2. Player A donates thought lash
3. Donate resolves, player B controls thought lash.
4. Upkeep resolves, player A now recieves a trigger for thought lash to sacrifice itself and exile his library
5. Thought lash sac and exile resolves for player B.
MTG changed thought lash a few months ago to prevent this. Now it states whoever didn't pay the upkeep in the first place must exile their library.
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
Here are some cards I find useful in my Zedruu list.
Delaying Shield - good defense, and could be a rattlesnake if someone can hit you for a ton of damage but you have the mana available to donate it. It also neuters Voltron generals, which is a pretty nice upside.
This one is amazing.
Form of the Dragon - Handy if someone has a powerful lifegain deck, not a bad finisher if you have some flying dudes or ways to burn to the face.
A lot of Zedruu's swear by it, I personally dislike it.
Statecraft - good for neutering a creature-heavy deck, or defense if you have a bunch of chump blockers.
Bazaar Trader - works best with temporary steal cards like Dominus of Fealty, Insurrection, Chromeshell Crab or Puca's Mischief (give yourself the creature you just "borrowed", overriding the temporary control with a permanent one). Free donates can't hurt either if you have Zedruu out. Great with Kher Keep or other cheap chump maker, like Nuisance Engine or Sacred Mesa.
Personally I like Confusion in the Ranks better. I tried the Trader, and he always seemed underwhelming.
Psychosis Crawler - can be huge if you're drawing a ton of cards, which tends to happen, especially if you get the land-trading cards.
Vow of Flight - an interesting pseudo-removal that also works politically. It depends on your meta but could be a good card.
Also its a dick move to the Green player who has trouble with flyers lol. Just remember to NOT donate the enchantment unless you can block the creature.
Other group huggy type cards that my Zedruu uses are :
Time Reversal: Ruins hands, but also allows everyone to draw 7. If there were reanimator decks in your meta, this card could switch to being offensively evil, but otherwise its a great card.
Jace Beleran: Also known as little Jace. Just keep pumping him for extra cards, and if everyone ignores him during a long game, you can start milling people for 20(did this once to a defense deck). Add in with Sun Titan, which you have, its a great choice.
Trade Secrets: Helps both you and him, though there are a bunch of people who dislike this card.
Nin, the Pain Artist: Mentioned her earlier, and I'm mentioning her again. Rarely is there a time when this card is a dud in my hand. It helps people, it helps me, it removes trouble things, and its low costed to get out.
Mind Unbound: My meta knows to dislike this card. After 4-5 turns, you have drawn around 20 cards, and you donate it to someone. They can either get rid of it or draw a whole hand every turn. Or you just donate it early, and draw an extra card off them having it and very quickly they will either remove it or mill themselves.
I agree about copy enchantment. I put it in and have not questioned it since.
Private Mod Note
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EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
You are wrong. Please try the rule forums or google the newest thought lash errata. This was a whole issue a few months ago due to zedruu.
The player who just received the donation can sacrifice thought lash just fine. Sacrificing WASN'T a cost for the trigger to start, not paying the upkeep was. The sac happens on the resolve only, after the player was donated the card in response to the upkeep not being payed.
Let me go into detail quickly:
1. Don't pay the upkeep: It resolves, a trigger for thought lash to be sac'ed goes on the stack
2. Donate thought lash while the sac is on the stack: Donate resolves, oher player controls thought lash with the sac trigger still on it.
3. Sac resolves: Player in control of thought lash sacs it and exiles their library.
That's the gist of it, I could be wrong for when you need to do the donate. You may have to donate it in response to not paying the cost before the sac trigger is even put on, therefore the sac trigger will be put on when the other player already controls thought lash. Yeah, this sounds right.
MTG changed thought lash a few months ago to prevent this. Now it states whoever didn't pay the upkeep in the first place must exile their library.
I don't really want to get into this either, but I feel like this is misinformation. And for some reason I feel compelled to attempt to set this straight(untill such time as a rules guru deigns to slap me into my rightful place)
The way people thought that it worked was this.
1. Player A puts Thought Lash's cumulative upkeep trigger on the stack.
2. Player A refuses to pay said upkeep cost and puts it's sacrifice and remove library triggers on the stack.(note that if you're old school and were doing this with an instant speed Donate these would be the same triggers)
3. Player A would donate the Thought Lash to Player B.
4. Triggers would resolve. This is where people thought that player B's library would be removed. However, this didn't work as far back as 2004, where errata was specifically added to specify that the person who didn't pay the upkeep was the person who exiled their library.
Recently this was made even more clear by putting the exile effect into it's own seperate trigger ability, but that doesn't change the fact that it didn't work because the sacrifice trigger was still controlled by Player A, and as I've stated rule 701.14a doesn't let you sacrifice a permanent you don't control. For clarification here is the link to the most recent errata: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/161d&page=2. Note that nowhere in the article that actually deals with Though Lash( And also Heart of Bogardan) does it bother to mention the sacrifice part of not paying it cumulative upkeep.
Yeah let's not start this argument again. The Thought Lash trick works.
See above.
Edit:
As far as additions are concerned. I've always liked abusing Parallax Wave/Parallax Tide with sacrifice effects/bounce(read: Capsize). And hey, Claws of Gix is pretty good with temporary steal effects as well.
EDIT: I guess it's been changed. Because Thought Lash was apparently too broken. Let's keep Kokusho banned though, that's important.
Yeah, let's keep Consecrated Sphinx and Primeval Titan unbanned- but Kokusho- far too broken/sarcasm.(For the record I want neither of those two banned)
No, they contol Thought Lash, not the trigger to sacrifice it.
My good sir, they control thought lash BEFORE the upkeep trigger of not paying 1 card resolves. You donated as that was put on the stack, remember?
Now, when the donate resolves, the opponent gets thought lash, and when the cumulative upkeep resolves and the original player doesn't pay it, the triggered ability for thought lash to sacrifice itself goes off. Thought lash is under the control of the new player at this point so they get the bad trigger, and it sacs it on their side, exiling their library.
Please, for the sake of misinformation, please check the rules forums or use google. I may not have been correct on my first attempt to explain it to you, but you would of saved time and confusion by checking for yourself. This has been debated many times. And yes, it doesn't work these days ONLY because the wording on thought lash (gatherer) now states that whoever did not initially pay the upkeep cost now exiles their library, i.e. the player who donated it.
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
Edited original post. Put reasonings for removals/additions in there
-counterbalance +suffocating Blast
-death by dragons +form of the dragon
-elixir of immortality +absorb
-font of mythos +aura of silence
-future sight +copy enchantment
-howling mine +Hanna, Ship's Navigator
-journeyer's kite +expedition map
-keiga, the tide star +Sphinx Ambassador
-magus of the future +delaying shield
-oblivion stone +final judgment
-reiterate +Hindering Light
-wild rocochet +Path to Exile
-island + Sword to Plowshares
So I finally realized Forbidden Orchard doesn't count as you owning the token.. So I removed it. Also took out Hindering Light.. Dismantling Blow is crazy though.
I'm thinking that Political Trickery and Shifting Borders might need to get cut. Kind of bad without Zedruu, and take 2 upkeeps to get CA with Zedruu out. It could just be because I haven't gotten to play with it enough.
It dawned on me that I have alot of Equipment tutor and ways to bring them back, but my only strong equipment is sunforger. I'm thinking that maybe I should add Sword of Fire and Ice or Sword of Feast and Famine.. Darksteel Plate might work also.
I feel like I might need another land or 2.. I just can't figure out what to cut.
I'm thinking that Political Trickery and Shifting Borders might need to get cut. Kind of bad without Zedruu, and take 2 upkeeps to get CA with Zedruu out. It could just be because I haven't gotten to play with it enough.
Well that is what you are doing wrong...You need to cast those before Zedruu gets put out. Take some of their better lands, like a bounce land or a legendary land. Then 2-3 turns later you pop Zedruu out and start gaining from it.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top Control: The only pure lockdown deck in Modern.
In Zedruu I like things that tilt the game state in my favor that also make good gifts (i.e. you don't have yo control them to reap their benefits). A partial list includes:
1x Zedruu the Greathearted
Ramp:
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Coalition Relic
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Expedition Map
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Sol Ring
1x Land Tax
1x Oath of Lieges
1x Eternal Dragon
1x Solemn Simulacrum
Protection:
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Swiftfoot Boots
Draw:
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Rhystic Study
1x Consecrated Sphinx
Sunforger Package:
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Stonehewer Giant
1x Steelshaper's Gift
1x Godo, Bandit Warlord
1x Sunforger
1x Absorb
1x Chaos Warp
1x Counterflux
1x Dismantling Blow
1x Double Negative
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Oblation
1x Orim's Thunder
1x Path to Exile
1x Return to Dust
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Tithe
1x Wild Ricochet
1x Austere Command
1x Wrath of God
1x Terminus
1x Rout
Good Stuff:
1x Rite of Replication
1x Paradox Haze
1x Copy Enchantment
1x Venser, the Sojourner
1x Hanna, Ship's Navigator
1x Keiga, the Tide Star
1x Sun Titan
Pillows:
1x Collective Restraint
1x Ghostly Prison
1x Karmic Justice
1x Propaganda
1x Solitary Confinement
1x Windborn Muse
Destruction:
1x Aura of Silence
1x Detention Sphere
1x Oblivion Ring
Zedruu stuff:
1x Celestial Dawn
1x Illusions of Grandeur
1x Transcendence
1x Gilded Drake
1x Vedalken Plotter
Tutors:
1x Wild Research
1x Idyllic Tutor
1x Academy Rector
Lands (38):
1x Academy Ruins
1x Adarkar Wastes
1x Arid Mesa
1x Azorius Chancery
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Boros Garrison
1x Buried Ruin
1x Cascade Bluffs
1x Command Tower
1x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Kher Keep
1x Marsh Flats
1x Maze of Ith
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Mistveil Plains
2x Mountain
1x Mystic Gate
3x Plains
1x Plateau
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
1x Strip Mine
1x Tolaria West
1x Tundra
1x Vivid Meadow
1x Volcanic Island
1x Windswept Heath
I typically try to play a pillow-fort style game answering things that come at me. My wincons tend to be along the lines of donating Transcendence/Illusions or stealing something with Gilded Drake.
Cards that may be getting the boot:
Karmic Justice --> Not sure it does anything. I don't have too many threats that demand answering. Seems to just sit there.
Some cards that I am thinking about:
1x Bribery
1x Counterflux -----> Instead of Suffocating Blast? Blast has to have a target
1x Crib Swap
1x Delaying Shield
1x Hallowed Burial
1x Journey to Nowhere
1x Kor Haven
1x Rest in Peace
1x Scroll Rack
1x Spin into Myth
1x Trading Post
1x Weathered Wayfarer
Delaying Shield - good defense, and could be a rattlesnake if someone can hit you for a ton of damage but you have the mana available to donate it. It also neuters Voltron generals, which is a pretty nice upside.
Form of the Dragon - Handy if someone has a powerful lifegain deck, not a bad finisher if you have some flying dudes or ways to burn to the face.
Statecraft - good for neutering a creature-heavy deck, or defense if you have a bunch of chump blockers.
Aeon Chronicler - card draw which makes itself bigger. Very good with Reliquary Tower or Venser's Journal.
Bazaar Trader - works best with temporary steal cards like Dominus of Fealty, Insurrection, Chromeshell Crab or Puca's Mischief (give yourself the creature you just "borrowed", overriding the temporary control with a permanent one). Free donates can't hurt either if you have Zedruu out. Great with Kher Keep or other cheap chump maker, like Nuisance Engine or Sacred Mesa.
Psychosis Crawler - can be huge if you're drawing a ton of cards, which tends to happen, especially if you get the land-trading cards.
Spectral Searchlight - political ramp.
Copy Enchantment - awesome if Illusions is out. Probably worth the slot since you have a good number of enchantments.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - recursion for the enchantments that break.
Vow of Flight - an interesting pseudo-removal that also works politically. It depends on your meta but could be a good card.
Delaying Shield- I saw this, only thought of it from a rattlesnake PoV though. Never considered voltron general though. I'll likely find room for this.
Form of the Dragon- This makes me lol. Never thought of this card. Pretty sweet. If I go more donate heavy I'll include this.
Statecraft- I don't think I have enough chumps in the deck to warrant this. If I go more donate heavy I might include it though.
Aeon Chronicler- I never know how to feel about this card. It's good, but it seems like his draw doesn't start happening until too late in the game.. I'll think more on this.
Bazaar Trader- Seems fun, I doubt he'll find a spot.
Psychosis Crawler- already in the list
Spectral Searchlight-hmm.. My playgroup runs few mass artifact destruction, so this may warrant a spot over darksteel ingot
Copy Enchantment- Not sure how I forgot about this card, but it's going to find it's way in..
My main problem is that I'm not sure if I should drop the sunforger package and go more donate or not.. I feel like the deck might not be focused enough, but I'm still play testing to try to decide.
I would consider taking out the Group Hug cards (Howling Mine, Font of Mythos) and replace them with more politically-inclined cards, like the Searchlight and Bazaar Trader on a creature I just stole with Dominus of Fealty or Puca's Mischief. Typically Zedruu wants to play more control, and giving your opponents cards indiscriminately is not necessarily what I would want to do. By using cards like Vow of Flight I can help other people, but only when I want to help them and it's in my best interest to do so. At the least I would replace Howling Mine with Temple Bell.
Also I think I ninja-edited my first post after you started responding. I added Vow of Flight and Hanna, Ship's Navigator.
This does not work, after you donate the though lash you still control the trigger to sacrifice it which you can't do as you no longer control thought lash. You can't sacrifice permanents you don't control.
Oh it works. It sacrifices on their end because the trigger to sac will resolve no matter who controls thought lash, exiling the library of whoever controls it at that point (the trigger doesn't magically forget about thought lash after it's donated.). But it was errated two months ago to make sure whoever didn't pay the upkeep cost in the first place was the one that lost their deck.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
No. Thought Lash still won't be sacrificed. You will remove your library from the game. The errata(which was issued in Nov. 2004 to the best of my gatherer-fu) states :When a player doesn't pay Thought Lash's cumulative upkeep, that player exiles all cards from his or her library.
Thought Lash will still be in play, as you can't sacrifice a permanent you don't control. This is per rule 701.14a
701.14a To sacrifice a permanent, its controller moves it from the battlefield directly to its owner‘s graveyard. A player can‘t sacrifice something that isn‘t a permanent, or something that‘s a permanent he or she doesn‘t control. Sacrificing a permanent doesn‘t destroy it, so regeneration or other effects that replace destruction can‘t affect this action.
You are wrong. Please try the rule forums or google the newest thought lash errata. This was a whole issue a few months ago due to zedruu.
The player who just received the donation can sacrifice thought lash just fine. Sacrificing WASN'T a cost for the trigger to start, not paying the upkeep was. The sac happens on the resolve only, after the player was donated the card in response to the upkeep not being payed.
Let me go into detail quickly:
EDIT: Changed to correct way
1. Upkeep trigger goes on stack for player A
2. Player A donates thought lash
3. Donate resolves, player B controls thought lash.
4. Upkeep resolves, player A now recieves a trigger for thought lash to sacrifice itself and exile his library
5. Thought lash sac and exile resolves for player B.
MTG changed thought lash a few months ago to prevent this. Now it states whoever didn't pay the upkeep in the first place must exile their library.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
This one is amazing.
A lot of Zedruu's swear by it, I personally dislike it.
This card never disappoints. Never.
This along with Nin, the Pain Artist, Sturmgeist, and Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind can give your deck a nice subtheme. Zedruu is a minor card draw engine himself after all.
Personally I like Confusion in the Ranks better. I tried the Trader, and he always seemed underwhelming.
Read above for the subtheme.
Ehh...its sometimes cool.
I agree.
Good Card is good.
Also its a dick move to the Green player who has trouble with flyers lol. Just remember to NOT donate the enchantment unless you can block the creature.
Other group huggy type cards that my Zedruu uses are :
Time Reversal: Ruins hands, but also allows everyone to draw 7. If there were reanimator decks in your meta, this card could switch to being offensively evil, but otherwise its a great card.
Jace Beleran: Also known as little Jace. Just keep pumping him for extra cards, and if everyone ignores him during a long game, you can start milling people for 20(did this once to a defense deck). Add in with Sun Titan, which you have, its a great choice.
Trade Secrets: Helps both you and him, though there are a bunch of people who dislike this card.
Nin, the Pain Artist: Mentioned her earlier, and I'm mentioning her again. Rarely is there a time when this card is a dud in my hand. It helps people, it helps me, it removes trouble things, and its low costed to get out.
Mind Unbound: My meta knows to dislike this card. After 4-5 turns, you have drawn around 20 cards, and you donate it to someone. They can either get rid of it or draw a whole hand every turn. Or you just donate it early, and draw an extra card off them having it and very quickly they will either remove it or mill themselves.
u/Anon_Amarth - Fun as a zero sum game: If my opponent is having none of it, then by extension I must be having all of it.
Current Top Control Decklist
Cockatrice: Spage
I agree about copy enchantment. I put it in and have not questioned it since.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
I don't really want to get into this either, but I feel like this is misinformation. And for some reason I feel compelled to attempt to set this straight(untill such time as a rules guru deigns to slap me into my rightful place)
The way people thought that it worked was this.
1. Player A puts Thought Lash's cumulative upkeep trigger on the stack.
2. Player A refuses to pay said upkeep cost and puts it's sacrifice and remove library triggers on the stack.(note that if you're old school and were doing this with an instant speed Donate these would be the same triggers)
3. Player A would donate the Thought Lash to Player B.
4. Triggers would resolve. This is where people thought that player B's library would be removed. However, this didn't work as far back as 2004, where errata was specifically added to specify that the person who didn't pay the upkeep was the person who exiled their library.
Recently this was made even more clear by putting the exile effect into it's own seperate trigger ability, but that doesn't change the fact that it didn't work because the sacrifice trigger was still controlled by Player A, and as I've stated rule 701.14a doesn't let you sacrifice a permanent you don't control. For clarification here is the link to the most recent errata: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/161d&page=2. Note that nowhere in the article that actually deals with Though Lash( And also Heart of Bogardan) does it bother to mention the sacrifice part of not paying it cumulative upkeep.
See above.
Edit:
As far as additions are concerned. I've always liked abusing Parallax Wave/Parallax Tide with sacrifice effects/bounce(read: Capsize). And hey, Claws of Gix is pretty good with temporary steal effects as well.
But your opponent does control it upon sacrifice. Because of Zedruu.
No, they contol Thought Lash, not the trigger to sacrifice it.
EDIT: I guess it's been changed. Because Thought Lash was apparently too broken. Let's keep Kokusho banned though, that's important.
Yeah, let's keep Consecrated Sphinx and Primeval Titan unbanned- but Kokusho- far too broken/sarcasm.(For the record I want neither of those two banned)
My good sir, they control thought lash BEFORE the upkeep trigger of not paying 1 card resolves. You donated as that was put on the stack, remember?
Now, when the donate resolves, the opponent gets thought lash, and when the cumulative upkeep resolves and the original player doesn't pay it, the triggered ability for thought lash to sacrifice itself goes off. Thought lash is under the control of the new player at this point so they get the bad trigger, and it sacs it on their side, exiling their library.
Please, for the sake of misinformation, please check the rules forums or use google. I may not have been correct on my first attempt to explain it to you, but you would of saved time and confusion by checking for yourself. This has been debated many times. And yes, it doesn't work these days ONLY because the wording on thought lash (gatherer) now states that whoever did not initially pay the upkeep cost now exiles their library, i.e. the player who donated it.
Errata was changed in September
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
-counterbalance +suffocating Blast
-death by dragons +form of the dragon
-elixir of immortality +absorb
-font of mythos +aura of silence
-future sight +copy enchantment
-howling mine +Hanna, Ship's Navigator
-journeyer's kite +expedition map
-keiga, the tide star +Sphinx Ambassador
-magus of the future +delaying shield
-oblivion stone +final judgment
-reiterate +Hindering Light
-wild rocochet +Path to Exile
-island + Sword to Plowshares
I'm thinking that Political Trickery and Shifting Borders might need to get cut. Kind of bad without Zedruu, and take 2 upkeeps to get CA with Zedruu out. It could just be because I haven't gotten to play with it enough.
It dawned on me that I have alot of Equipment tutor and ways to bring them back, but my only strong equipment is sunforger. I'm thinking that maybe I should add Sword of Fire and Ice or Sword of Feast and Famine.. Darksteel Plate might work also.
I feel like I might need another land or 2.. I just can't figure out what to cut.
Well that is what you are doing wrong...You need to cast those before Zedruu gets put out. Take some of their better lands, like a bounce land or a legendary land. Then 2-3 turns later you pop Zedruu out and start gaining from it.
u/Anon_Amarth - Fun as a zero sum game: If my opponent is having none of it, then by extension I must be having all of it.
Current Top Control Decklist
Cockatrice: Spage
Man they would be handsome.
Naya Mid Rang