This is a multiplayer deck with focus on beating people for 21 general damage. I usually play with 3-6 people at a time.
I went through gatherer and looked at every possible card that could pump Thrun up. I tried to distill it down to the best of the best and the only two notable exceptions are Riding the Dilu Horse and Berserk due to their dollar cost.
I tried to favor counters and things that will stick around versus just instant speed alpha strikes because I have to slog through 3+ people's life totals to win the game. I chose Thrun because he is very hard to answer and most likely wont be tucked (except Terminus / Hallowed Burial).
This list started as my own and is one of my favorite decks to play. Over time with the community's help and especially ISBPathfinder it became what it is today. If you are interested in a great Thrun resource please check out his primer.
Just taking a look at your list quickly, I here's a couple of thoughts: Argentum Armor I love the flavor of this card, but it's really slow. Either it's a turn 6 drop and turn 7 equip, meaning you're leaving Thrun without mana for regenerate, or you need 12 mana to make this work in one turn. While Thrun is Hexproof, the equipment isn't.
Elder of Laurels - I don't see this being super-effective. While it is repeatable, how many creatures will you really have out? Even if it's this guy, Thrun and one more, :3mana::symg: for +3/+3 doesn't seem super efficient. Also this form of pump is pretty vulerable to wrath and spot removal.
Nantuko Disciple - I just don't think this guy does enough for the slot. Mostly because you have to tap this guy to make it work and it only gives +2/+2.
Forgotten Ancient - It's a cool card that gets big decently fast. I would put this on the block however since it's unlikely to stick around since he will become a big threat pretty fast. Additionally he doesn't contribute to your primary win-con.
Decree of Savagery - I don't think you'll get full value out of this card. You're unlikely to have many creatures on board, so this slot would probably be better suited to something much lower costed. At 9 Mana you should be getting close to your win-con.
I know this isn't going to make it easier to make cuts to your deck but I have a few cards you should consider:
Whispersilk Cloak - Help Thrun get into the red-zone. Shroud doesn't help much but there are very few equipments that grant unblockable.
I don't like the Whispersilk Cloak because of shroud and possibly not having other creatures to move it to if I want to target Thrun. The Trailblazer's Boots are very tempting though.
Quietus Spike seems very good but it doesn't help with my general damage plan.
Forgotten Ancient is still making the cut because I was planning to move the counters from him to Thrun each turn. I do agree my opponents will probably try to kill him very quickly.
My main fears right now are Terminus, Hallowed Burial, and things like Story Circle. I have three sacrifice outlets to try and dodge the tuck but I don't have any answers to Enchantments other than Argentum Armor. I also agree the armor is really pricy at 6 to play and 6 to equip... Maybe just drop it for a Krosan Grip?
Also getting locked down by Grave Pact / Stax decks would be frustrating. Do you think Tajuru Preserver is worth running?
I'm now debating if I should drop cards for things like Green Sun's Zenith to get my general back if it somehow gets tucked, and Krosan Grip to get rid of problem enchantments / artifacts, etc.
Trancer99, I looked at your Omnath deck and got a few ideas. What do you think about Mark of Sakiko and Nature's Will for this deck?
Here is the new decklist, I also updated the first post with the new deck list and thoughts.
Deck has had some success but is weak on defense and is kind of slow. Also people just seem to freak out when he starts getting large even with all the combo players at the table.
I'm having a lot of problems with flyers in general. Thinking about putting in Silklash Spider or Hornet Queen. Also thinking about putting in more creature tutors.
I like Whispersilk Cloak a lot but the fact that it gives Thrun shroud is a detriment. I don't run a lot of creatures and I've gotten Thrun stuck with the equipment on before.
On the creature pump side, its too bad that Wild Defiance isn't really an option for what you are doing. There would probably need to be a lot more instant/sorcery pump to make it worth it.
Oh, I like your Rogue's Passage. I am totally stealing that idea for my deck here shortly.
Some thoughts I have for you:
Tower Above it buffs thrun, gives trample, and forces a block out of the deal. Even though they see it coming its thrun so its hard to do anything to him. The wither can help vs indestructability as well if your opponents are running any.
Ulvenwald Tracker: Thrun tends to be fairly large usually so this gives you some continuous spot removal options. This is great against utility commanders as they tend to not really involve themselves with combat much.
Prey Upon: as close as it comes to cheap spot removal in green. Thrun's hexproof tends to make this fairly hard to interrupt. Great as a trick for pushing thun through potentially or stalling off someone else's commander.
Revenge of the Hunted: an absolute beating when you get this. Huge buff plus you get to murder your opponents creatures all in one. This easily seems like it could replace one of your instant speed buffs.
Power Matrix: like everything you might want to give to thrun all in one artifact. It doesn't enchant or equip either so using it turn after turn is easy. It has come in handy for me against some flying heavy decks as well as it gives me potential defenses as well.
Torpor Orb: your list is similar to mine in that we run creature light. We dont have much for ETB effects either so this can really nurf some ETB abuse decks.
Infiltration Lens: Thrun gets blocked sometimes to stall off some damage. I have found the lense to be a good deterrent for when I dont have trample as it still rewards me if they block him. Even once he does have trample people block him to lower damage. The lens really screws with how you block thrun I have found.
I think overall you might be focusing a bit heavily on your thrun pump effects. I could see some of them being scaled back potentially for some of the effects I mentioned as well as more card draw. The instant speed ones seem especially sort of short sighted.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Thanks for the ideas. I agree my instant speed pump isn't the greatest. I like your mini-turbofog idea ISB. I've had a lot of trouble with defense. Been debating trying to give Thrun more vigilance but might go with your fog idea instead.
Thanks for the ideas. I agree my instant speed pump isn't the greatest. I like your mini-turbofog idea ISB. I've had a lot of trouble with defense. Been debating trying to give Thrun more vigilance but might go with your fog idea instead.
The best part of the fogs is that you sort of want to keep up 2 mana to regenerate him anyways so you can sort of fake a few options with that 2 mana I have even considered adding a 4th fog to the deck which might even just be fog lol.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
What do you do against wraths that don't allow regen? Just quick sack or totem armor? I've been debating Darksteel Plate and Spearbreaker Behemoth lately.
What do you do against wraths that don't allow regen? Just quick sack or totem armor? I've been debating Darksteel Plate and Spearbreaker Behemoth lately.
Generally just dont worry too much about them. I just drop back in and get going again as soon as I can. I considered both of those as well but thrun already has so much built in protection that I dont worry about that stuff. Plus what I am actually afraid of is like Hallowed Burial and Terminus rather than just no regen Wrath of God.
Another option is to have some sac outlets. High Market, Greater Good, and Momentous Fall are all in my list currently. Sacing thrun off can defend against tucks as well as be a good wrath response. I once got to Momentous Fall in response to someone's Living Death which was about the coolest thing ever
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
After looking through ISB's list more and playing more games I made the following changes. I still haven't added the fogs but they are on my short list.
I have to say I like most of the changes you made. Obviously some of them are based off of my own list but I would still say that perhaps some of your ramp is a bit oddly placed. I try to keep away from the 3 mana ramp as it doesnt speed thrun up but it does still speed other parts of your deck up.
Still, I like a lot of the recent changes. I dont entirely know why you need all the mana doublers you run though.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I have to say I like most of the changes you made. Obviously some of them are based off of my own list but I would still say that perhaps some of your ramp is a bit oddly placed. I try to keep away from the 3 mana ramp as it doesnt speed thrun up but it does still speed other parts of your deck up.
Still, I like a lot of the recent changes. I dont entirely know why you need all the mana doublers you run though.
Honestly since it was mono-colored when I was building the deck I thought to myself, "Woo! Mana doubling here I come!"
I should try just taking it all out and see if I notice a difference. I know that you are sacrificing mana one turn for the possibility of double mana next turn and beyond assuming no removal etc.
I have removed a lot of my X spells but with all the draw I hardly ever run out of cards to cast.
As far as the turn three ramp vs turn two... I haven't been able to find Nature's Lore, Three Visits, Etc. I also thought a couple extra bodies would be nice for chump / sacrifice.
I'm trying Skyshroud Ranger vs Explore and last night he actually did some good work. Dropped him turn two and he accelerated turn three for Thrun and turn four for Epic Proportions.
I went through gatherer and looked at every possible card that could pump Thrun up. I tried to distill it down to the best of the best and the only two notable exceptions are Riding the Dilu Horse and Berserk due to their dollar cost.
I tried to favor counters and things that will stick around versus just instant speed alpha strikes because I have to slog through 3+ people's life totals to win the game. I chose Thrun because he is very hard to answer and most likely wont be tucked (except Terminus / Hallowed Burial).
This list started as my own and is one of my favorite decks to play. Over time with the community's help and especially ISBPathfinder it became what it is today. If you are interested in a great Thrun resource please check out his primer.
4 Thrun, the Last Troll
Creatures (11)
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Eternal Witness
4 Forgotten Ancient
4 Master of the Wild Hunt
4 Silent Arbiter
5 Acidic Slime
5 Silklash Spider
6 Silvos, Rogue Elemental
6 Duplicant
Equipment (11)
1 Infiltration Lens
1 O-Naginata
2 Inquisitor's Flail
2 Trailblazer's Boots
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Fireshrieker
3 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Strata Scythe
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Sword of Vengeance
4 Avarice Amulet
Auras (8)
1 Rancor
3 Blanchwood Armor
3 Snake Umbra
3 Vow of Wildness
4 Bear Umbra
6 Epic Proportions
7 Mythic Proportions
8 Eldrazi Conscription
1 Nature's Claim
3 Beast Within
3 Crushing Vines
3 Hunter's Insight
3 Krosan Grip
2x Strength of the Tajuru
Sorceries (14)
1 Prey Upon
2 Nature's Lore
2 Rampant Growth
2 Regrowth
2 Savage Punch
3 Recollect
3 Tower Above
4 Harmonize
4 Increasing Savagery
5 Hunter's Prowess
5 Overwhelming Stampede
5 Primal Command
5 Soul's Majesty
5 Soul's Might
Artifcats (7)
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
2 Coldsteel Heart
2 Moss Diamond
2 Torpor Orb
3 Oblivion Stone
5 Mind's Eye
1 Mirri's Guile
3 Awakening Zone
4 Greater Good
4 Nature's Will
Planeswalkers (2)
5 Garruk, Primal Hunter
7 Karn Liberated
Lands (36)
1 Cathedral of War
29 Forest
1 High Market
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Opal Palace
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Rogue's Passage
3 Riding the Dilu Horse
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Argentum Armor I love the flavor of this card, but it's really slow. Either it's a turn 6 drop and turn 7 equip, meaning you're leaving Thrun without mana for regenerate, or you need 12 mana to make this work in one turn. While Thrun is Hexproof, the equipment isn't.
Elder of Laurels - I don't see this being super-effective. While it is repeatable, how many creatures will you really have out? Even if it's this guy, Thrun and one more, :3mana::symg: for +3/+3 doesn't seem super efficient. Also this form of pump is pretty vulerable to wrath and spot removal.
Nantuko Disciple - I just don't think this guy does enough for the slot. Mostly because you have to tap this guy to make it work and it only gives +2/+2.
Forgotten Ancient - It's a cool card that gets big decently fast. I would put this on the block however since it's unlikely to stick around since he will become a big threat pretty fast. Additionally he doesn't contribute to your primary win-con.
Decree of Savagery - I don't think you'll get full value out of this card. You're unlikely to have many creatures on board, so this slot would probably be better suited to something much lower costed. At 9 Mana you should be getting close to your win-con.
I know this isn't going to make it easier to make cuts to your deck but I have a few cards you should consider:
Whispersilk Cloak - Help Thrun get into the red-zone. Shroud doesn't help much but there are very few equipments that grant unblockable.
Extraplanar Lens - Great ramp for any mono-colored deck.
Trailblazer's Boots - Depends on your playgroup, but most EDH games see a lot of non-basic land play.
Lightning Greaves / Swiftfoot Boots - Haste Enabler, or can protect your other creatures like Bellowing Tanglewurm
Canopy Cover - Another form of evasion, a little lost value due to Thrun already being hex proof
Concordant Crossroads - Global Haste in green, use wisely.
Those are just my quick thoughts. I'll check back in later. Hope this helps.
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I don't like the Whispersilk Cloak because of shroud and possibly not having other creatures to move it to if I want to target Thrun. The Trailblazer's Boots are very tempting though.
Quietus Spike seems very good but it doesn't help with my general damage plan.
Forgotten Ancient is still making the cut because I was planning to move the counters from him to Thrun each turn. I do agree my opponents will probably try to kill him very quickly.
My main fears right now are Terminus, Hallowed Burial, and things like Story Circle. I have three sacrifice outlets to try and dodge the tuck but I don't have any answers to Enchantments other than Argentum Armor. I also agree the armor is really pricy at 6 to play and 6 to equip... Maybe just drop it for a Krosan Grip?
Also getting locked down by Grave Pact / Stax decks would be frustrating. Do you think Tajuru Preserver is worth running?
I'm now debating if I should drop cards for things like Green Sun's Zenith to get my general back if it somehow gets tucked, and Krosan Grip to get rid of problem enchantments / artifacts, etc.
Trancer99, I looked at your Omnath deck and got a few ideas. What do you think about Mark of Sakiko and Nature's Will for this deck?
Here is the new decklist, I also updated the first post with the new deck list and thoughts.
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Creatures (8)
1 Eternal Witness
1 Forgotten Ancient
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Nantuko Mentor
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Ursapine
Equipment (11)
1 Argentum Armor
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Fireshrieker
1 Grappling Hook
1 Inquisitor's Flail
1 Kusari-Gama
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 O-Naginata
1 Strata Scythe
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Vengeance
Auras (9)
1 Bear Umbra
1 Blanchwood Armor
1 Eldrazi Conscription
1 Epic Proportions
1 Exoskeletal Armor
1 Mythic Proportions
1 Rancor
1 Shape of the Wiitigo
1 Verdant Embrace
1 Beast Within
1 Invigorate
1 Might of Oaks
1 Predator's Strike
1 Primal Bellow
1 Stonewood Invocation
1 Strength of the Tajuru
1 Titanic Growth
1 Untamed Might
Sorceries (13)
1 Cultivate
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Harmonize
1 Hunting Wilds
1 Increasing Savagery
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Overwhelming Stampede
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Regrowth
1 Restock
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Soul's Majesty
1 Soul's Might
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Caged Sun
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Puffer Extract
1 Sol Ring
1 Wine of Blood and Iron
Enchantments (6)
1 Familiar Ground
1 Greater Good
1 Mana Reflection
1 Primal Rage
1 Triumph of Ferocity
1 Vernal Bloom
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
Lands (35)
33 Forest
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 High Market
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Replaced Familiar Ground with Trailblazer's Boots. Same idea but it makes Thrun almost always unblockable.
Deck has had some success but is weak on defense and is kind of slow. Also people just seem to freak out when he starts getting large even with all the combo players at the table.
Looking at Boundless Realms, Ranger's Path, and Ring of Kalonia from M13.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Out:
Moss Diamond
Treetop Village
In:
Wildheart Invoker
Inkmoth Nexus
I'm having a lot of problems with flyers in general. Thinking about putting in Silklash Spider or Hornet Queen. Also thinking about putting in more creature tutors.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Which equipment would you sub it in for?
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
On the creature pump side, its too bad that Wild Defiance isn't really an option for what you are doing. There would probably need to be a lot more instant/sorcery pump to make it worth it.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Feel free to check it out here: Thrun, the Last Troll - Primordial Triumph
I'd certainly recommend Ring of Kalonia, Nim Deathmantle and Vow of Wildness.
These have all been really solid for me.
In:
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
In Bonehoard
I want to put in Hunter's Insight but can't decide what to cut for it. Any ideas?
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
If so, my suggestions for cutting would be spells like Invigorate, Predator's Strike, Titanic Growth and similar.
I myself find that these types of spells are unimpressive because they're a one time only affair.
Some thoughts I have for you:
Tower Above it buffs thrun, gives trample, and forces a block out of the deal. Even though they see it coming its thrun so its hard to do anything to him. The wither can help vs indestructability as well if your opponents are running any.
Ulvenwald Tracker: Thrun tends to be fairly large usually so this gives you some continuous spot removal options. This is great against utility commanders as they tend to not really involve themselves with combat much.
Prey Upon: as close as it comes to cheap spot removal in green. Thrun's hexproof tends to make this fairly hard to interrupt. Great as a trick for pushing thun through potentially or stalling off someone else's commander.
Revenge of the Hunted: an absolute beating when you get this. Huge buff plus you get to murder your opponents creatures all in one. This easily seems like it could replace one of your instant speed buffs.
Power Matrix: like everything you might want to give to thrun all in one artifact. It doesn't enchant or equip either so using it turn after turn is easy. It has come in handy for me against some flying heavy decks as well as it gives me potential defenses as well.
Torpor Orb: your list is similar to mine in that we run creature light. We dont have much for ETB effects either so this can really nurf some ETB abuse decks.
Infiltration Lens: Thrun gets blocked sometimes to stall off some damage. I have found the lense to be a good deterrent for when I dont have trample as it still rewards me if they block him. Even once he does have trample people block him to lower damage. The lens really screws with how you block thrun I have found.
I think overall you might be focusing a bit heavily on your thrun pump effects. I could see some of them being scaled back potentially for some of the effects I mentioned as well as more card draw. The instant speed ones seem especially sort of short sighted.
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[Modern] Allies
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
The best part of the fogs is that you sort of want to keep up 2 mana to regenerate him anyways so you can sort of fake a few options with that 2 mana I have even considered adding a 4th fog to the deck which might even just be fog lol.
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[Modern] Allies
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Generally just dont worry too much about them. I just drop back in and get going again as soon as I can. I considered both of those as well but thrun already has so much built in protection that I dont worry about that stuff. Plus what I am actually afraid of is like Hallowed Burial and Terminus rather than just no regen Wrath of God.
Another option is to have some sac outlets. High Market, Greater Good, and Momentous Fall are all in my list currently. Sacing thrun off can defend against tucks as well as be a good wrath response. I once got to Momentous Fall in response to someone's Living Death which was about the coolest thing ever
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[Modern] Allies
In:
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Out:
In:
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Out:
In:
Also made the following changes
Out:
Which makes way for:
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Still, I like a lot of the recent changes. I dont entirely know why you need all the mana doublers you run though.
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[Modern] Allies
Honestly since it was mono-colored when I was building the deck I thought to myself, "Woo! Mana doubling here I come!"
I should try just taking it all out and see if I notice a difference. I know that you are sacrificing mana one turn for the possibility of double mana next turn and beyond assuming no removal etc.
I have removed a lot of my X spells but with all the draw I hardly ever run out of cards to cast.
As far as the turn three ramp vs turn two... I haven't been able to find Nature's Lore, Three Visits, Etc. I also thought a couple extra bodies would be nice for chump / sacrifice.
I'm trying Skyshroud Ranger vs Explore and last night he actually did some good work. Dropped him turn two and he accelerated turn three for Thrun and turn four for Epic Proportions.
I do like that, for one mana hard to complain about that aura.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats