This deck has a crazy number of combos in it. I'm going to try to list the main ones but a lot of the cards work in various ways with eachother and listing every combo would be pretty hard. If you play this deck you'll get a feel of what pieces work with eachother.
Ghave Infinite Combo
This is based on ZenN's Primer. I slightly modified it for my own deck list and reference.
Speed defiantly helps this deck, I know that I had some issues with this deck before I up'ed my ramp package, also lowering you curve a little will help since it looks a little high. what kind of hate are you facing? good general suggestions are things like defense grid or winter orb type effects. Drop them a turn or so before you want to go off to decrease their resources, since it shouldn't be hard to make many of those effects not really effect you. However, some people don't look to fondly on those kind of cards so that one is up to you.
Also, unless I missed it in you list, I have found kitchen finks helps you survive a lot.
I usually lose to either a lot of counterspells or mass air armies / voltron. I put in Righteous Aura to hold off Voltron and I was trying City of Solitude for counterspells.
Well it sounds like you already know most of the ways of fighting off counterspells, but to fight of armies there are things like crawlspace or ensnaring bridge depending on what actually is hitting you those might be useful. I can't say that I've ever heard of Righteous Aura, but it looks like it can rain on voltron's parade and I can't really think of anything else to suggest there other than something like Forcefield.
I don't know if you've seen my thread, but while there isn't a whole lot of discussion on defensive measures, there is a lot of explanation about other things there.
Edit: Yeah, finks is a pain to find for an uncommon that isn't even that old.
Crawlspace is tempting... I really have more trouble with counterspells then agro. I can usually race agro or tutor for Righteous Aura if I'm facing a very angry Voltron deck.
I'm finally letting go of my mana doublers. I had an obsession with them for a long time but am slowly taking them out of my decks that really don't need them.
Played a lot of games over the weekend and I'm finally ready to let go of Doubling Season. I almost never tutor for it anymore and its win more most of the time with most of the combos.
I never play this list anymore because I get hated out immediately. Was debating taking out some of the combos and a lot of the tutors and turn it into more of a token swarm / stompy deck. Has anyone had good luck with a list like that?
I'd still keep some infinites in but not make it the prime focus of the deck.
I am aiming to turn this more into a token swarm deck. The way I had it build it was vulnerable until it went infinite and won. It also drew a ton of hate from my playgroup and I just didn't have fun playing it.
My goal isn't to removal all my infinite combos but I did remove a lot of the pieces that didn't do anything on their own. I also removed a lot of the tutors because I wanted more varied games with this deck.
These changes are based off cards I currently own. I plan on picking up some more cards (especially token producers) and making further tweaks.
You're playing Green, so I feel like you could replace Weathered Wayfarer with pretty much anything would be better. That card is really only good in Mono White and White with another color that doesn't ramp. Yavimaya Elder maybe? Solemn Simulacrum also seems good.
You're playing Green, so I feel like you could replace Weathered Wayfarer with pretty much anything would be better. That card is really only good in Mono White and White with another color that doesn't ramp. Yavimaya Elder maybe? Solemn Simulacrum also seems good.
I would run Tithe over Weathered Wayfarer. Same effect, but instant. That, and I don't think I'd need to activate a card like that more than once, so I don't think the pros of Weathered Wayfarer being around for a long time and generating constant lands would mean as much.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Corpsejack Menace and Gyre Sage play nicely with Ghave. I'm trying out some hydras as well, ones that double their own counters in various ways. Phantom Nishoba could be unkillable in combat for you, and a nice chunk of life gain - any phantom creature for that matter, but not the pro black one, I made that mistake last week =P
Perhaps you should just send WOTC a resume and tell them why you're better at Magic than one of their employees instead of complaining here, where nobody really has any authority on the matter.
I agree with Tithe being better than Weathered Wayfarer. Need to pick up another copy eventually. I like that the Wayfarer can get any land but he definitely is slow and fragile.
Weathered Wayfarer => Vraska the Unseen - I agree that Wayfarer is slow, vulnerable, conditional ramp. Bringing in Vraska which is removal and very on theme for a token deck. Who doesn't want tokens that can one shot people?
Bloodline Keeper => Ophiomancer - With a sac outlet the Ophiomancer should enable a lot more plays. Bloodline Keeper took awhile to get going.
Slate of Ancestry => Carnage Altar - I never activated Slate of Ancestry, I usually have too much on the board tying up my mana to be constantly playing and refilling my hand.
Perilous Forays = > Primal Vigor - Global Doubling season! I should be able to benefit from this more than others. The Forays was too slow.
Reprocess => Night Soil - The sorcery speed of reprocess hurts it a lot. Adding some grave hate in it's place.
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad => Champion of Stray Souls - Sorin is one of my weakest token makers and his emblem didn't prove to be that great. Champion of Stray Souls should be nice for bringing back my creatures for the low low cost of sacrificed tokens.
If the opening post is indeed your current list, might I suggest Enlightened Tutor in place of Stoneforge Mystic? Let us know how the Champion does, I had my eye on him in the BNG spoiler. Is there a reason you're not using Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, etc?
Yeah it is my current list. I don't play with proxies and only have one of some cards like the tutors. I agree that Enlightened Tutor, Demonic Tutor, and Vampiric Tutor would all be nice upgrades for the deck.
I'll let you know how Champion of Stray Souls goes. I've seen a lot of feedback with people thinking the card is terrible but this deck likes to get back its creatures so I think it should work out well.
Night Soil => Elspeth, Sun's Champion - I was never very excited to see Night Soil and the requirement of two creatures can be limiting. Elspeth spits out tokens and can control the board.
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed => Butcher of Malakir - Mikaeus can enable a bunch of infinites but on his own he is so-so. Butcher needs a sac outlet but having a third grave pact effect seems worth while.
5 Ghave, Guru of Spores
Creatures (25)
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Viscera Seer
2 Blood Artist
2 Bloom Tender
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Saffi Eriksdotter
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Zulaport Cutthroat
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eternal Witness
3 Fiend Hunter
3 Geralf's Messenger
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Academy Rector
4 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Smothering Abomination
5 Karmic Guide
5 Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest
5 Reveillark
6 Massacre Wurm
6 Sun Titan
7 Boonweaver Giant
8 Woodfall Primus
Instants (10)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Entomb
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
2 Eladamri's Call
3 Anguished Unmaking
3 Beast Within
3x Chord of Calling
1 Imperial Seal
1 Reanimate
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Diabolic Intent
2 Nature's Lore
2 Three Visits
3 Eldritch Evolution
3 Grim Tutor
3 Yawgmoth's Will
1x Green Sun's Zenith
Equipment (2)
1 Skullclamp
2 Illusionist's Bracers
Artifacts (9)
0 Chrome Mox
0 Mana Crypt
0 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
2 Altar of Dementia
2 Golgari Signet
2 Orzhov Signet
2 Selesnya Signet
3 Ashnod's Altar
Enchantments (11)
2 Animate Dead
2 Dance of the Dead
2 Earthcraft
2 Survival of the Fittest
2 Sylvan Library
3 Aura Shards
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Grave Pact
4 Living Plane
4 Pattern of Rebirth
5 Doubling Season
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Mana Confluence
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Sunpetal Grove
2 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Woodland Cemetery
This deck has a crazy number of combos in it. I'm going to try to list the main ones but a lot of the cards work in various ways with eachother and listing every combo would be pretty hard. If you play this deck you'll get a feel of what pieces work with eachother.
Ghave Infinite Combo
This is based on ZenN's Primer. I slightly modified it for my own deck list and reference.
Ghave, Guru of Spores + Doubling Season/Illusionist's Bracers + Ashnod's Altar/Earthcraft = infinite tokens, with an infinite number of +1/+1 counters, and infinite mana
Ghave, Guru of Spores + Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest + Ashnod's Altar = infinite tokens, with an infinite number of +1/+1 counters, and infinite mana
With these combos you can:
Boonweaver Combo
This is based on Cobblepot's Primer. I slightly modified it for my own deck list and reference.
The Boonweaver combo goes as follows:
Infinite Pairs:
Assemble an infinite pair with a sac outlet and win con and the game will be over:
Other Combos
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dark Ritual
2 Abrupt Decay
Sorceries
2 Regrowth
3 Bitter Ordeal
3 Maelstrom Pulse
7 Tooth and Nail
Artifacts
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Phyrexian Altar
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Concordant Crossroads
3 Martyr's Cause
3 Squirrel Nest
Lands
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Strip Mine
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Also, unless I missed it in you list, I have found kitchen finks helps you survive a lot.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
I was also considering Grand Abolisher and Defense Grid. I like the Kitchen Finks but I can't find any... pretty rare for an uncommon.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
I don't know if you've seen my thread, but while there isn't a whole lot of discussion on defensive measures, there is a lot of explanation about other things there.
Edit: Yeah, finks is a pain to find for an uncommon that isn't even that old.
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
I'm finally letting go of my mana doublers. I had an obsession with them for a long time but am slowly taking them out of my decks that really don't need them.
Mirari's Wake => Grand Abolisher Protecting the Combo
Mana Reflection => Defense Grid Protecting the Combo
Acidic Slime => Butcher Ghoul More Combo pieces and lower mana curve
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Doubling Season => Chord of Calling - Per above I'm trading it in for another tutor that can enable my undying / persist combos.
Demonic Collusion => Nature's Lore - Trading expensive tutor for some more quick ramp that can get out dual lands.
Increasing Ambition => Diabolic Intent - Trading expensive tutor for cheap tutor.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Karmic Guide => Phyrexian Altar - I'm taking out the Revilark / Karmic Guide Combo. Altar gives me another sac outlet.
Reveillark => Abrupt Decay - As above trading for some nice quick removal.
Recollect => Argivian Find - Less mana and instant speed
Coalition Relic => Bloom Tender - Faster better ramp
Swamp => Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - Mana Fix
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Defense Grid => Kitchen Finks
Defense Grid was my only counter spell preventer that still allowed counterspells.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
I'd still keep some infinites in but not make it the prime focus of the deck.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
My goal isn't to removal all my infinite combos but I did remove a lot of the pieces that didn't do anything on their own. I also removed a lot of the tutors because I wanted more varied games with this deck.
These changes are based off cards I currently own. I plan on picking up some more cards (especially token producers) and making further tweaks.
Deck Update:
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Triskelion
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Argivian Find
1 Blasting Station
1 Crop Rotation
1 Summoner's Pact
1 Strangleroot Geist
1 City of Solitude
1 Righteous Aura
1 Bitter Ordeal
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Butcher Ghoul
1 Young Wolf
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Sylvan Library
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Doubling Season
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Champion of Lambholt
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Parallel Lives
1 Hornet Queen
1 Mirror Entity
1 Storm Herd
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Grim Backwoods
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Reprocess
1 Attrition
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Martyr's Bond
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Privileged Position
1 Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Mortify
1 Putrefy
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Cultivate
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Mana Reflection
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Perilous Forays
1 Fertilid
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
1 Nature's Lore
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Bloodline Keeper
1 Skullmulcher
1 Avenger of Zendikar
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
In:
I think this will be about it for the massive changes to make this a token swarm deck. Now for some play testing to see what works and what doesn't.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
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I would run Tithe over Weathered Wayfarer. Same effect, but instant. That, and I don't think I'd need to activate a card like that more than once, so I don't think the pros of Weathered Wayfarer being around for a long time and generating constant lands would mean as much.
I was looking at the Hydras too:
Primordial Hydra
Protean Hydra
Kalonian Hydra (M14)
Was also looking at Mycoloth.
I'm going to try the pure tokens first but if I feel I need bigger beaters the Hydras will be my first stop for sure.
I like Corpsejack Menace & Gyre Sage too but I'm having a lot of trouble deciding what to cut! I also want to squeeze in Spike Weaver somewhere.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Bloodline Keeper => Ophiomancer - With a sac outlet the Ophiomancer should enable a lot more plays. Bloodline Keeper took awhile to get going.
Slate of Ancestry => Carnage Altar - I never activated Slate of Ancestry, I usually have too much on the board tying up my mana to be constantly playing and refilling my hand.
Perilous Forays = > Primal Vigor - Global Doubling season! I should be able to benefit from this more than others. The Forays was too slow.
Reprocess => Night Soil - The sorcery speed of reprocess hurts it a lot. Adding some grave hate in it's place.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
I'll let you know how Champion of Stray Souls goes. I've seen a lot of feedback with people thinking the card is terrible but this deck likes to get back its creatures so I think it should work out well.
Also due to ban... Sylvan Primordial => Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Night Soil => Elspeth, Sun's Champion - I was never very excited to see Night Soil and the requirement of two creatures can be limiting. Elspeth spits out tokens and can control the board.
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed => Butcher of Malakir - Mikaeus can enable a bunch of infinites but on his own he is so-so. Butcher needs a sac outlet but having a third grave pact effect seems worth while.
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats