Some testing shows that Karn is stone cold nuts and will never be leaving the deck again.
I'll have to cut him from my Chainer deck and get him Wandering.
Had a fun one tonight in the lone game I rolled Wanderer out for --the ever rare turn two win. Turn one was land, Crypt, Sol Ring, Fyndhorn Elder. Turn two was land Wander into Palinchron, Skyshroud Claim. After Claim resolved tap the two lands for mana, untap all four with Palinchron, cast Temporal Manipulation. Untap, cast another dork into Time Stretch. It was a two-on-one handicap match, so I had only two opponents to damage out. On my second Stretch turn I Primal Huntered into regrowth for the Stretch. That's the quickest win I have to date, and left a stunned look on the faces of my poor two opponents.
I am working on getting Karn as well, but my only Wanderer game tonight, I got killed by a Door to Nothingness by a Troll playing a Troll deck. (and I don't mean trolls like Thrun) Next time I will just kill him first.
@MrCoupon. Wow. Had one that could've been like that yesterday. Turn 2 Knowledge Exploitation off Mana Crypt + Basalt Monolith + Mana Vault opening. His Tooth and Nail was in his hand so I couldn't end it on turn 2.
@Intuition. The card you actually want, Food Chain, and Regrowth/Eternal Witness. When Food Chain is the card you actually want, Regrowth + Eternal Witness. Think of it this way, it's the end of your opponent's turn. Maelstrom is in play but had only cascaded into ramp. You Intuition for Food Chain, Greater Good, and Kozilek/Blatant Thievery/Bribery/Tooth and Nail/etc. What can they safely give you?
Hi duck, I've been following yours and MrCoupon's threads for a few months now. I put together a Wanderer deck recently based on the two threads. My choices are a bit different due to play group considerations (time limit) and cost of a few cards (Mana Drain and others)
I just wanted to say that I made a significant update today based on a statistical analysis of the two deck lists compared to what I was using. I added the following cards today with great success and would offer them up as a staple for this deck type.
Which cards were removed due to time limit constraints?
This could plausibly replace Malignus. Making 9 mana isn't hard, and that would give a total of 11+4*4=25 damage/turn. 11 mana in the late game is also reasonable, and that's 12+5*5=37 damage/turn. I'm not convinced that paying mana is worth it, though.
I've been thinking hard about putting Hellkite Tyrant back in. Lost a game yesterday to Wildfire leaving an opponent with too much artifact mana and the ability to indefinitely chump Malignus. As folks are figuring out that ramp is the best strategy, it seems Tyrant just keeps getting better.
I don't see how this can replace Malignus. I can see it finding a home in a budget version, but one of the great things about Wanderer is how quickly it gets people on the ropes. Malignus and Wanderer are both swinging the turn they hit play. Now, 7 isn't completely negligible, but nothing near the punch packed by Malignus the first turn. In my opinion, one of the truly terrifying things about Wanderer is that it puts huge pressure on the opponents, and then gets to reload the next turn. Sinking more mana into our board presence, just to make it as frightening as it could have been with another card, is rarely going to be an upgrade.
It also makes sense to me that the Wilfire versions want more artifact hate. Depending on how many Wildfire effects, one could also consider, uh... the dude from the new Commander set who blows all the crap up when he comes in and gets +1/+1 counters. Hurts us, but soooo nasty with a land wipe effect.
Just testing tweaks: Sensei's Divining Top -> Hellkite Tyrant.
I don't think Top belongs in here at all. This might be due to the fact that I run the other Cascade creatures and I would consider Top a dead cast from Shardless Agent.
@duck, I took out all the "take another turn" spells for time consideration.
Also @MrCoupon, Malignusis budget, it only runs about $1.50, so I don't see Broodmaster being a good replacement or even fitting well in the deck.
And I agree with duck. Time Warps simply end games.
I agree that Time Warp helps the person playing the Wanderer end the game faster, but it means an extended time for that person to be controlling the board instead of letting the other 3+ people take their turns. Since I play in a casual group, this makes you the unpopular person. Most of the people in the play group don't scoop to play another game, they want to get beaten to start a new game.
Molten Primordial has been kind of hit or miss, for some reason it always pops up my first time casting Wanderer, and most of my opponents are creature-less on turn 4.
I got to cascade into Spelljack last week, oh the expressions were PRICELESS!!! (thanks Duck)
The deck wins 2/3 games each week that I get three games and at least 1/2 on weeks we only get two games in.
One thing I've been considering is adding a second God. I have Nylea, but I can't give her Trample easily enough to win in some situations. I do like the new mono red Aurelia.
Duplicate seems markedly worse than Scourge of the Throne. You already have haste and you may not have anything good to copy. It's better to just attack again with Maelstrom.
Thought I would throw my list out here. It was my first EDH deck (besides Purphoros, God of the Forge, which I scrapped very quickly for being uber one dimensional). Bear in mind I built this deck with a 75% philosophy in mind: I want to build a powerful deck, but one that scales with the opponents I am playing with. It should be able to win sometimes against an extremely tuned deck, and sometimes lose to derpy newbie decks.
I should note that I do not play (although I don't mind playing against) Time Warp effects, mostly because Knowledge Exploitation runs rampant in my LGS. I also don't play Dead-Eye Navigator and Palinchron because of an unfortunate incident, having me win on turn three. Sol Ring into Defense of the Heart on turn two playing against Edric weenies will do that. Infinite everythings makes things entertaining exactly once. I cut the tutors because cascading into them makes me extremely sad.
Also, two cards from Conspiracy get priority over all of those: Dack Fayden(!!!) and Scourge of the Throne.
The first cards on the chopping block are Chromatic Lantern (helps fight Blood Moon) and Rite of Replication (sucks to cascade into). The other cards that suck to cascade into are Cyclonic Rift, Brainstorm (which is not getting cut, too much awesome synergy), and various ramp spells, particularly Carpet of Flowers. The latter stays despite sometimes being a dead card because the times it is a dead card, I am not playing against blue, in which case I like my odds of winning.
Edit: I should mention that Erayo, Soratami Ascendant is an absolute beast in this deck. I would call her an uncuttable staple. Often times it is worth it to delay your t4 Wanderer for a t5 Erayo + Wanderer for an instant flip. It is one of the hardest cards to beat.
Bear in mind I built this deck with a 75% philosophy in mind: I want to build a powerful deck, but one that scales with the opponents I am playing with. It should be able to win sometimes against an extremely tuned deck, and sometimes lose to derpy newbie decks.
That's why Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are in the format. In theory, threat assessment is what levels the playing field, not intentionally poor deckbuilding. And you're defending that poorness with single anecdotes where you won "too easily."
If you want to earn your wins, play Derevi. It gets better in competitive metas while playing archenemy against n00bs who think Winter Orb and Stasis are "unfun."
Addressing Erayo, skilled player know to kill it with fire. Unskilled players will think it's ridiculously "unfun" that they can't play their 7-10 mana spell each turn. Worse, the decks we most need to beat have the easiest time playing around it.
Duplicate seems markedly worse than Scourge of the Throne. You already have haste and you may not have anything good to copy. It's better to just attack again with Maelstrom.
I'm not sure why you would evaluate one card vs. another; I meant including Duplicate in the deck, not choosing card #1 or card #2.
Each new card should be evaluated against the worst card in the deck. If it's better, it gets a slot. It's a bit different if you talk about rebuilding from scratch, but single card changes can generally be treated as opportunity cost-based.
Each new card should be evaluated against the worst card in the deck. If it's better, it gets a slot. It's a bit different if you talk about rebuilding from scratch, but single card changes can generally be treated as opportunity cost-based.
Ok, that's a reasonable strategy. I need to pick the lowest value cards in my own deck list and use this strategy.
Duplicate seems markedly worse than Scourge of the Throne. You already have haste and you may not have anything good to copy. It's better to just attack again with Maelstrom.
I'm not sure why you would evaluate one card vs. another; I meant including Duplicate in the deck, not choosing card #1 or card #2.
Dack's cannot go infinite with Palinchron in play, Image can.
I started out with various clone types in the deck, but I removed all but Phyrexian Metamorph, most of the time they either copied crap or were a dead cascade. Metamorph can copy swords or ramp which are both useful.
I'll have to cut him from my Chainer deck and get him Wandering.
Had a fun one tonight in the lone game I rolled Wanderer out for --the ever rare turn two win. Turn one was land, Crypt, Sol Ring, Fyndhorn Elder. Turn two was land Wander into Palinchron, Skyshroud Claim. After Claim resolved tap the two lands for mana, untap all four with Palinchron, cast Temporal Manipulation. Untap, cast another dork into Time Stretch. It was a two-on-one handicap match, so I had only two opponents to damage out. On my second Stretch turn I Primal Huntered into regrowth for the Stretch. That's the quickest win I have to date, and left a stunned look on the faces of my poor two opponents.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
What do you usually fetch with Intuition besides Food Chain?
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
@Intuition. The card you actually want, Food Chain, and Regrowth/Eternal Witness. When Food Chain is the card you actually want, Regrowth + Eternal Witness. Think of it this way, it's the end of your opponent's turn. Maelstrom is in play but had only cascaded into ramp. You Intuition for Food Chain, Greater Good, and Kozilek/Blatant Thievery/Bribery/Tooth and Nail/etc. What can they safely give you?
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
Playable and potentially better than Crater Hellion. Probably won't make it into my build.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I just wanted to say that I made a significant update today based on a statistical analysis of the two deck lists compared to what I was using. I added the following cards today with great success and would offer them up as a staple for this deck type.
- Spelljack
- Blatant Thievery
- Knowledge Exploitation
- Malignus
- Thada Adel, Acquisitor
I run Shardless Agent so I get one extra chance at the Prowl cost on KE in a perfect situation.Thanks for the inspiration and contribution to the community!
This could plausibly replace Malignus. Making 9 mana isn't hard, and that would give a total of 11+4*4=25 damage/turn. 11 mana in the late game is also reasonable, and that's 12+5*5=37 damage/turn. I'm not convinced that paying mana is worth it, though.
I've been thinking hard about putting Hellkite Tyrant back in. Lost a game yesterday to Wildfire leaving an opponent with too much artifact mana and the ability to indefinitely chump Malignus. As folks are figuring out that ramp is the best strategy, it seems Tyrant just keeps getting better.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
It also makes sense to me that the Wilfire versions want more artifact hate. Depending on how many Wildfire effects, one could also consider, uh... the dude from the new Commander set who blows all the crap up when he comes in and gets +1/+1 counters. Hurts us, but soooo nasty with a land wipe effect.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Not sure weak card selection is worth the slot over threats that can close the game and hobble other players' ramp.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
I don't think Top belongs in here at all. This might be due to the fact that I run the other Cascade creatures and I would consider Top a dead cast from Shardless Agent.
@duck, I took out all the "take another turn" spells for time consideration.
Also @MrCoupon, Malignus is budget, it only runs about $1.50, so I don't see Broodmaster being a good replacement or even fitting well in the deck.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Time Warp actually saves time: people don't get to answer your stuff, so the game tends to end far more quickly.
@Repercussion
You could... Isn't it worse than just giving him trample?
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
I don't mean to replace Malignus, I just feel as if budget versions of the deck may want multiple beaters.
And I agree with duck. Time Warps simply end games.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
And I agree with Duck and Coupon...
Malignus is getting to the point I am looking to foil it, its always all star.
Blatant Thievery is always awesome.
Molten Primordial has been kind of hit or miss, for some reason it always pops up my first time casting Wanderer, and most of my opponents are creature-less on turn 4.
I got to cascade into Spelljack last week, oh the expressions were PRICELESS!!! (thanks Duck)
Been considering Noxious Revival, any thoughts ?
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
New card just hit and it's insanely good:
Maelstrom gets an extra attack each turn while this thing hits for 13. It may not be as good as Malignus, but we'll definitely play it.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
The deck wins 2/3 games each week that I get three games and at least 1/2 on weeks we only get two games in.
One thing I've been considering is adding a second God. I have Nylea, but I can't give her Trample easily enough to win in some situations. I do like the new mono red Aurelia.
What about Dack's Duplicate?
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
I should note that I do not play (although I don't mind playing against) Time Warp effects, mostly because Knowledge Exploitation runs rampant in my LGS. I also don't play Dead-Eye Navigator and Palinchron because of an unfortunate incident, having me win on turn three. Sol Ring into Defense of the Heart on turn two playing against Edric weenies will do that. Infinite everythings makes things entertaining exactly once. I cut the tutors because cascading into them makes me extremely sad.
Without further ado, here is the deck!
8 Maelstrom Wanderer
Creatures: 28
1 Joraga Treespeaker
2 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
2 Lotus Cobra
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
3 Eternal Witness
3 Fyndhorn Elder
3 Greenweaver Druid
3 Somberwald Sage
3 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
5 Malignus
5 Mercurial Chemister
5 Prophet of Kruphix
5 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
6 Arcanis the Omnipotent
6 Brutalizer Exarch
6 Consecrated Sphinx
6 Hellkite Tyrant
6 Progenitor Mimic
7 Avenger of Zendikar
7 Chancellor of the Spires
7 Sphinx of Uthuun
8 Terastodon
Artifacts: 4
1 Sol Ring
3 Chromatic Lantern
4 Thran Dynamo
5 Gilded Lotus
2 Hull Breach
4 Decimate
4 Explosive Vegetation
4 Hunting Wilds
4 Ranger's Path
4 Rite of Replication
4 Skyshroud Claim
5 Acquire
5 Bribery
5 Restock
5 World at War
6 Recurring Insight
6 Time Spiral
7 Blatant Thievery
7 Boundless Realms
7 Tooth and Nail
8 Insurrection
8 Praetor's Counsel
Instants: 8
1 Brainstorm
2 Arcane Denial
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Beast Within
3 Chaos Warp
4 Plasm Capture
6 Spelljack
Enchantments: 7
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Mirri's Guile
2 Sylvan Library
3 Food Chain
4 Defense of the Heart
4 Greater Good
6 Mana Reflection
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
5 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Lands: 34
0 Ancient Tomb
0 Breeding Pool
0 Cascade Bluffs
0 Cavern of Souls
0 Command Tower
0 COpperline Gorge
0 Fire-Lit Thicket
0 Flooded Grove
7 Forest
1 Hinterland Harbor
5 Island
0 Karplusan Forest
0 Kessig Wolf Run
0 Mountain
0 Rootbound Crag
0 Shivan Reef
0 Steam Vents
0 Stomping Ground
0 Sulfur Falls
0 Temple of Abandon
0 Temple of Epiphany
0 Temple of Mystery
0 Temple of the False God
0 Yavimaya Coast
Cards that I really want to add, but can't find room:
5 Xenagos, God of Revels
7 Diluvian Primordial
4 Fact or Fiction
6 Bane of Progress
Also, two cards from Conspiracy get priority over all of those: Dack Fayden(!!!) and Scourge of the Throne.
The first cards on the chopping block are Chromatic Lantern (helps fight Blood Moon) and Rite of Replication (sucks to cascade into). The other cards that suck to cascade into are Cyclonic Rift, Brainstorm (which is not getting cut, too much awesome synergy), and various ramp spells, particularly Carpet of Flowers. The latter stays despite sometimes being a dead card because the times it is a dead card, I am not playing against blue, in which case I like my odds of winning.
Edit: I should mention that Erayo, Soratami Ascendant is an absolute beast in this deck. I would call her an uncuttable staple. Often times it is worth it to delay your t4 Wanderer for a t5 Erayo + Wanderer for an instant flip. It is one of the hardest cards to beat.
That's why Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are in the format. In theory, threat assessment is what levels the playing field, not intentionally poor deckbuilding. And you're defending that poorness with single anecdotes where you won "too easily."
If you want to earn your wins, play Derevi. It gets better in competitive metas while playing archenemy against n00bs who think Winter Orb and Stasis are "unfun."
Addressing Erayo, skilled player know to kill it with fire. Unskilled players will think it's ridiculously "unfun" that they can't play their 7-10 mana spell each turn. Worse, the decks we most need to beat have the easiest time playing around it.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
For example, I'm thinking Dack's Duplicate might be better than Phantasmal Image.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
Dack's cannot go infinite with Palinchron in play, Image can.
I started out with various clone types in the deck, but I removed all but Phyrexian Metamorph, most of the time they either copied crap or were a dead cascade. Metamorph can copy swords or ramp which are both useful.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort