Isn't that list a little light on ramp and lands ? You would be struggling to cast maelstrom even with the old mulligan using that low amount of mana acceleration.
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Legacy URGBOops all my spellsBGRU URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~ BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW UTalrand PolymorphishU UAzami, Lady of CAU BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
I am currently working on piecing my deck together like that johnny cash song about his Cadillac one piece at a time, so i don't have a list yet. That being said i don't need a decklist to talk theory. With all the ramp that seems to be shoved into the decklists of yours your game plan seems to be just cast MW and win, but all the mana dorks and rocks are just sub-par cascades. When I cast MW all i want to hit is threats, and in that regard mana dorks and rocks don't deserve a place. Ramp spells on the other hand increase you threat density with each one you play making your topdecks better. The deck should just punch people in the face regardless if you have or don't have MW, and the more relevant threats you have the more likely you will end the game just by casting MW regardless of the cards you cascade into.
The mana rocks are what allow you to have explosive starts. Going Thran Dynamo into Phyrexian Metamorph copy Dynamo into Birthing Pod is pretty ridiculous. They allow Tezzeret the Seeker to be very versatile. The mana dorks and rocks are both more efficient than land ramp spells which I do play. 2cmc ramp spells are terrible cascades.
Also, the ramp spells make you less reliant on MW because it allows you to just cast the cards in your hand with more ease. They really Smooth the deck out.
With all the ramp that seems to be shoved into the decklists of yours your game plan seems to be just cast MW and win, but all the mana dorks and rocks are just sub-par cascades. When I cast MW all i want to hit is threats.
Lmao, your admittance to not having experience piloting the deck has pardoned your otherwise haphazard choice of words
The ramp spells are not "shoved into the decklists", they carved their position into stone after dozens of hours of testing. I will reference a post from my own thread in regard to the cascade math:
"20 Cards is only 1/5 of the deck. The odds of hitting that 1/5 twice is then 1/25. Ok, so this is actually not good math. Because the lands and the two spells that cost 8+ do not factor in. So the odds are much higher of double bad cascade. Let's say there are roughly 24 spells you aren't enthralled to cascade into. There are roughly 36 that you do want to cascade into. So 24/60 reduces to 4/10. So... 40% chance each cascade is a bit of a dud. That actually means there is only a 16% chance both will be duds. Probably lower still, because we have to factor in that at least two ramp pieces are already on the board. Regardless, there is a roughly 16... we'll call it 20% chance of double dud. So once every 5 times you play the guy, he duds twice.
So, if we are in double dud situation, we have four ramp pieces and 7/5 haste who kills a person in 3 swings. If no one sweeps the board, we bash someone until they kill it or they die. This is a horrible scenario for us. This is a low percentage game, but it also assumes we drew no card draw spells or business spells while waiting to go off (very unlikely, as we noted that roughly 36 of our cards fit the bill here. So let's call it conservatively an even third, and we have a 66% chance of missing each turn. This leaves us with only a 19% chance of not drawing business by turn 4. So that means that in only 4% of games (.2*.2) will you double dud and not draw business by turn 4. So in 1 out of every 20 games you run into a the aformentioned scenario. Sometimes there will be a sweeper (killing the Wanderer, but also killing all man-based ramping). Of the cards we don't want to hit, 9 of them are men. Odds are very low that in this 1 in 20 games, all four ramp pieces are men (which compose <50% of our ramp). Still, assuming 50% of our ramp is men, that means the odds of all 4 being men is 6.25%. So in 6.25% of 5% of our games (0.3% of games) we are royally and utterly screwed. A non-sweeper means of Wanderer dying means that in all likelihood we still have ramp and can replay him.
Now, we play a fairly astounding 10 different cards that draw three or more cards. I believe I included Godo (fetching Fire and Ice, attacking twice/turn) which makes the count imperfect, but whatever. Additionally, we play three different cards that allow us to play cards off the top of our library (in the instance of Oracle of Mul Daya it is powering us through land duds and setting up content). We play Sword of Fire and Ice which is good as an engine even without Godo (SwoFI was not included in my "10 different cards" from earlier, although Godo was) because of our dork density. Also, at any given time with Wanderer in play, resolving Food Chain almost always ends the game. We also play four extra turn spells that are good for if nothing else an untap and draw (with Wanderer in play also for 7 commander at someone's face) and two extra turn spells good for two untaps, draws and 14 commander with Wanderer in play (potentially finishing off whoever got nipped when he came down).
Now, again, I am using very basic and poor math (which is why I consistently rounded in favor of failure), but what I am attempting to illustrate, while agreeing that a combination of bad luck and some targeted hate really does put us out of games more often than will happen with some other decks, is that this deck is a bit more resilient than it appears on the surface, and if we are not finished off entirely, we are always still in the game."
Ignoring the Godo part and allowing some small percentile changes due to the list tweaks, this hold more or less true.
What I have found most interesting since the change is that while it hurts our consistency, it also takes some of the target off of our backs. It is NOT an even trade, but it is the silver lining. This is still a competitive deck, although it is not on the same tier in terms of speed and consistency as Doomsday, Druid, or Edric.
I am currently working on piecing my deck together like that johnny cash song about his Cadillac one piece at a time, so i don't have a list yet. That being said i don't need a decklist to talk theory. With all the ramp that seems to be shoved into the decklists of yours your game plan seems to be just cast MW and win, but all the mana dorks and rocks are just sub-par cascades. When I cast MW all i want to hit is threats, and in that regard mana dorks and rocks don't deserve a place. Ramp spells on the other hand increase you threat density with each one you play making your topdecks better. The deck should just punch people in the face regardless if you have or don't have MW, and the more relevant threats you have the more likely you will end the game just by casting MW regardless of the cards you cascade into.
If you don't have the ramp spells, you will not be able to cast MW in a timely manner. At a competitive table, if you sit and durdle for 7-8 turns with little interaction and no ramp, you will likely be dead. Without ramp you need like 38+ lands and tons of card draw/filtering. I guess its doable, but I wouldn't expect to win many games.
MW is great because you always have gas in the command zone, at the price of playing ramp cards. And if you cascade into more ramp, it just allows you to recast MW again, because you have more mana to work with.
I am currently working on piecing my deck together like that johnny cash song about his Cadillac one piece at a time, so i don't have a list yet. That being said i don't need a decklist to talk theory. With all the ramp that seems to be shoved into the decklists of yours your game plan seems to be just cast MW and win, but all the mana dorks and rocks are just sub-par cascades. When I cast MW all i want to hit is threats, and in that regard mana dorks and rocks don't deserve a place. Ramp spells on the other hand increase you threat density with each one you play making your topdecks better. The deck should just punch people in the face regardless if you have or don't have MW, and the more relevant threats you have the more likely you will end the game just by casting MW regardless of the cards you cascade into.
If you don't have the ramp spells, you will not be able to cast MW in a timely manner. At a competitive table, if you sit and durdle for 7-8 turns with little interaction and no ramp, you will likely be dead. Without ramp you need like 38+ lands and tons of card draw/filtering. I guess its doable, but I wouldn't expect to win many games.
MW is great because you always have gas in the command zone, at the price of playing ramp cards. And if you cascade into more ramp, it just allows you to recast MW again, because you have more mana to work with.
I have started to shift my deck more in line with control through thef't, since I cant consistently cast MW on turn 3/4 any more, I get behind on threats so, I cast on turn 5/6 and just steal their threats. At a competitive side table this would probably not work, but in my meta I have a lot of players playing big, shiny, stompy threats with little or no way to protect them, so for a slightly slower game it seems to work great just playing extra turns, card draw, ramp, and theft. It also allows me to play a little more conservative at first so I do not become the archenemy on turn 3.
Every meta is different, but for competitive side even pods, I would probably not run MW, I would probably run Tasigur or Grix-ANT.
I had a chance to try out some of the cards from Shadows Over Innistrad. They are far from optimal choices, but they are fun for me to play, so I give them all thumbs up =) Ulvenwald Hydra, Seasons Past and Altered Ego (does it counter, or does it not counter? I'm confused...) were all awesome cards to play with. The Hydra's reach and large size were relevant a bunch of times. Jace, Unraveler of Secrets was lackluster at best. Honestly, Honden of Seeing Winds and Tidings are probably better than him in this format.
Lmao, this is sort of a chump response, but instead of seeking out life gain, maybe invest in ways to proactively end the game faster? At least, since, y'know, this is a thread tagged [competitive].
Of the mentioned cards, only Tidings seems like a legit addition (this is a card I play to very good success).
Lmao, this is sort of a chump response, but instead of seeking out life gain, maybe invest in ways to proactively end the game faster? At least, since, y'know, this is a thread tagged [competitive].
Of the mentioned cards, only Tidings seems like a legit addition (this is a card I play to very good success).
The only reason I was looking for lifegain is the fact that I hurt myself quite a bit over the course of a game. Sylvan Library, Ancient Tomb, and City of Brass are the main offenders. My list isn't Uber 'competitive', but honestly, I've won much more games since I've toned my deck down. I have much more early interaction for decks like Arcum, stax, Hermit, and artifact shenanigans. A single Hull Breach or Cryptic Command can go a long way.
I have settled on Pelakka Wurm for lifegain in my list, but I'm testing out Platinum Empyrion as a potential Birthing Pod target.
I love the card. Big dumb enchantments are my freaking jam. Definitely a fun card. Beautiful art. Flavorful (Nahiri taken over). Awesome effect never printed before. I will definitely play it in my more 'casual' list.
I don't believe it belongs in a competitive list. It is terrible in an opening hand, doesn't interact well with opponents, relies on luck, and doesn't directly impact the board in a meaningful way. Pass for competitive pods. Wanderer should be looking to close the game in as short a time frame as possible.
I mean, yes, you need another card to combo off...but that card/cards are in your deck, and you'll be cascading through your entire deck, casting any/all of your spells. Food Chain + Eternal Scourge means infinite Wanderers means you can win via any number of cards in your deck - Purphoros, Warstorm Surge, Kiki kill, whatever. How is Eternal Scourge NOT an automatic windmill slam into the deck?
Hey guys. Awhile back, Maelstrom Wanderer was my life. He is still my favorite card, but at the time, my group wasn't as competitive and the salt in my store was real, so I chose to break down my deck and put it into other not as competitive decks. Here is my deck list exactly, I put this on tapped out shortly before I took it apart in case I ever wanted to come back to it, ended up being pretty popular.
Anyways, today I opened a foil wanderer out of a EMA pack and my overwhelming sense of love for the card came back and I can't fight it anymore. It's time to put the beast back together.
My question for you guys is, could you take a look at my list and kind of update me on what new cards have been proven to be the real deal and have been slotted in? What could I take out for them? Any help is appreciated!
Its not a windmill slam because usually the CA induced by food chain alone is enough to win the game without reliance on otherwise dead (absolutely useless) cards.
I mean, yes, you need another card to combo off...but that card/cards are in your deck, and you'll be cascading through your entire deck, casting any/all of your spells. Food Chain + Eternal Scourge means infinite Wanderers means you can win via any number of cards in your deck - Purphoros, Warstorm Surge, Kiki kill, whatever. How is Eternal Scourge NOT an automatic windmill slam into the deck?
3 Mana creatures that don't generate mana or provide a significant advantage on their own don't warrant a slot in the deck. I don't play Misthollow Griffin for that same reason. Food Chain is plenty good on its own.
FOOD CHAIN PLUS ONE SO YOU ALWAYS GET AN EXTRA MANA SO YOU DO THAT PLAY THEM FROM EXILE THEN FOOD CHAIN AGAIN GET AN EXTRA MANA FOR FOREVER CUZ U CAN CAST THEM FROM EXILE THEN AFTER THAT U HAVE INFINITE MANA THEN MAELSTROM CASCADE SAC HIM AND CAST OVER AND OVER CUZ OF INFINITE MANA PLAYING YOUR DECK
FOOD CHAIN PLUS ONE SO YOU ALWAYS GET AN EXTRA MANA SO YOU DO THAT PLAY THEM FROM EXILE THEN FOOD CHAIN AGAIN GET AN EXTRA MANA FOR FOREVER CUZ U CAN CAST THEM FROM EXILE THEN AFTER THAT U HAVE INFINITE MANA THEN MAELSTROM CASCADE SAC HIM AND CAST OVER AND OVER CUZ OF INFINITE MANA PLAYING YOUR DECK
I understand how it works. I'm just saying that if you draw or cascade into your 3/3 before Food Chain you will be severely disappointed every time. This combo has already existed (and not played) with Misthollow Griffin, and even a slightly better version of the card will not make me play that combo. This card is not proactive, and the worst-case-scenario is horrendous. The Griffin could at least fly and block a Voltron general.
FOOD CHAIN PLUS ONE SO YOU ALWAYS GET AN EXTRA MANA SO YOU DO THAT PLAY THEM FROM EXILE THEN FOOD CHAIN AGAIN GET AN EXTRA MANA FOR FOREVER CUZ U CAN CAST THEM FROM EXILE THEN AFTER THAT U HAVE INFINITE MANA THEN MAELSTROM CASCADE SAC HIM AND CAST OVER AND OVER CUZ OF INFINITE MANA PLAYING YOUR DECK
I understand how it works. I'm just saying that if you draw or cascade into your 3/3 before Food Chain you will be severely disappointed every time. This combo has already existed (and not played) with Misthollow Griffin, and even a slightly better version of the card will not make me play that combo. This card is not proactive, and the worst-case-scenario is horrendous. The Griffin could at least fly and block a Voltron general.
You make fair points, but let me draw a parallel.
If you're playing lab man combo, what's your thought process when you draw it in your opening hand? Or turn 5 before you're ready to go off? Me, I hate that, because its vulnerable in my hand. And I want to get Lab Man off Enter the Infinite or something similar.
In this parallel, lab man is Griffin. No, I don't necessarily want it on my hand. No, I don't want to cascade into it unless I already have Food Chain. But, Griffin has the benefit of being tutored to exile with Manipulate Fate or a similar spell. You have half your win condition untouchable in exile; that's spectacular.
Then when you're READY, you cast wanderer. Two out of the 3 cards you need to win the game are safe in exile... Why NOT run them?
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URGBOops all my spellsBGRU
URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~
BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB
GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG
GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
UTalrand PolymorphishU
UAzami, Lady of CAU
BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB
BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB
UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
Also, the ramp spells make you less reliant on MW because it allows you to just cast the cards in your hand with more ease. They really Smooth the deck out.
Lmao, your admittance to not having experience piloting the deck has pardoned your otherwise haphazard choice of words
The ramp spells are not "shoved into the decklists", they carved their position into stone after dozens of hours of testing. I will reference a post from my own thread in regard to the cascade math:
Ignoring the Godo part and allowing some small percentile changes due to the list tweaks, this hold more or less true.
What I have found most interesting since the change is that while it hurts our consistency, it also takes some of the target off of our backs. It is NOT an even trade, but it is the silver lining. This is still a competitive deck, although it is not on the same tier in terms of speed and consistency as Doomsday, Druid, or Edric.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
If you don't have the ramp spells, you will not be able to cast MW in a timely manner. At a competitive table, if you sit and durdle for 7-8 turns with little interaction and no ramp, you will likely be dead. Without ramp you need like 38+ lands and tons of card draw/filtering. I guess its doable, but I wouldn't expect to win many games.
MW is great because you always have gas in the command zone, at the price of playing ramp cards. And if you cascade into more ramp, it just allows you to recast MW again, because you have more mana to work with.
I have started to shift my deck more in line with control through thef't, since I cant consistently cast MW on turn 3/4 any more, I get behind on threats so, I cast on turn 5/6 and just steal their threats. At a competitive side table this would probably not work, but in my meta I have a lot of players playing big, shiny, stompy threats with little or no way to protect them, so for a slightly slower game it seems to work great just playing extra turns, card draw, ramp, and theft. It also allows me to play a little more conservative at first so I do not become the archenemy on turn 3.
Every meta is different, but for competitive side even pods, I would probably not run MW, I would probably run Tasigur or Grix-ANT.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Killing opponents with their own stuff is pretty fun. Also, ironically, it makes me not want to kill them because I would lose their stuff...
Ulvenwald Hydra, Seasons Past and Altered Ego (does it counter, or does it not counter? I'm confused...) were all awesome cards to play with. The Hydra's reach and large size were relevant a bunch of times. Jace, Unraveler of Secrets was lackluster at best. Honestly, Honden of Seeing Winds and Tidings are probably better than him in this format.
I wish I could play Westvale Abbey because alas, I am still looking for a suitable life-gain card. Pelakka Wurm, Platinum Emperion, and Loxodon Warhammer are passable, but still not ideal. Any suggestions?
wurmcoil or possibly batterskull
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Of the mentioned cards, only Tidings seems like a legit addition (this is a card I play to very good success).
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Coupon.... update your thread!!!
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I have settled on Pelakka Wurm for lifegain in my list, but I'm testing out Platinum Empyrion as a potential Birthing Pod target.
Posting off my phone so I can't tag cards.
G Azusa, Wherever I May Roam
UG Rashmi Simic Power
WB Kambal Life Gain Kills
URG Maelstrom Wanderer Howdy
I don't believe it belongs in a competitive list. It is terrible in an opening hand, doesn't interact well with opponents, relies on luck, and doesn't directly impact the board in a meaningful way. Pass for competitive pods. Wanderer should be looking to close the game in as short a time frame as possible.
Aside from Mind's Dilation, I don't think I will be testing anything from this set. Perhaps Stunning Regrowth is better than it looks.
What?
I mean, yes, you need another card to combo off...but that card/cards are in your deck, and you'll be cascading through your entire deck, casting any/all of your spells. Food Chain + Eternal Scourge means infinite Wanderers means you can win via any number of cards in your deck - Purphoros, Warstorm Surge, Kiki kill, whatever. How is Eternal Scourge NOT an automatic windmill slam into the deck?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-cocky-cascader/
Anyways, today I opened a foil wanderer out of a EMA pack and my overwhelming sense of love for the card came back and I can't fight it anymore. It's time to put the beast back together.
My question for you guys is, could you take a look at my list and kind of update me on what new cards have been proven to be the real deal and have been slotted in? What could I take out for them? Any help is appreciated!
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
3 Mana creatures that don't generate mana or provide a significant advantage on their own don't warrant a slot in the deck. I don't play Misthollow Griffin for that same reason. Food Chain is plenty good on its own.
I understand how it works. I'm just saying that if you draw or cascade into your 3/3 before Food Chain you will be severely disappointed every time. This combo has already existed (and not played) with Misthollow Griffin, and even a slightly better version of the card will not make me play that combo. This card is not proactive, and the worst-case-scenario is horrendous. The Griffin could at least fly and block a Voltron general.
You make fair points, but let me draw a parallel.
If you're playing lab man combo, what's your thought process when you draw it in your opening hand? Or turn 5 before you're ready to go off? Me, I hate that, because its vulnerable in my hand. And I want to get Lab Man off Enter the Infinite or something similar.
In this parallel, lab man is Griffin. No, I don't necessarily want it on my hand. No, I don't want to cascade into it unless I already have Food Chain. But, Griffin has the benefit of being tutored to exile with Manipulate Fate or a similar spell. You have half your win condition untouchable in exile; that's spectacular.
Then when you're READY, you cast wanderer. Two out of the 3 cards you need to win the game are safe in exile... Why NOT run them?