Hey I play 1v1 in France and I faced the same issues from the day new mulligan started in 2015.
I've completely modified my personal list to take into account the fact that i can no more play too many 7cmc cards. At the beginning it was a mess but after 1+ month modifications it got more harmony and I'm extremely happy with it today.
I'm a bit lazy to update my page with all results but i play it every weekend against various competitive decks (geist, braids, prossh etc.) and until now there is only one deck that I consider a real threat (meaning my winrate is below 50%) and that deck is Radha which is too aggressive.
That looks like a good list, but it's still a very different format. Competitive multiplayer means that you have to be able to matter against others' Sol Ring and Mana Crypt openers. The format is swingy by design and the cascade mechanic is also swingy by design. Like I've said, I don't think this deck is top tier anymore.
My bad, when I saw the title 'competitive' I never thought it was about 'multiplayer' (In France when you use both words in the same sentence you get banned laughed at ^^)
I play a variant of my deck for multiplayer that replaces 15 cards, but It's far from being as performant as the 1v1 version.
From multiplayer perspective and given the tradeoffs due to mulligan rule, you should play maelsy if you want to have fun & cascade suspense, not if you want 70% winrate.
That wasn't true earlier. The largest unanswered threat wins the game and this deck had great threat size and density fast enough to matter. With the mulligan rule changed, threat density and speed are both down.
I agree that other decks have become better, but you're underestimating what this used to be able to do.
As you note, mana fixing is now harder to come by. I think a Derevi or Zur build that goes heavily for denying other players access to mana and tutoring is the way to go. Like, Stifle may even be playable to stop fetches.
Hello All! I am in the process of building a Maelstrom Wanderer deck. Ideally, it should do well in my Meta, as nobody plays doomsday decks (The folks who could say they hate coming up with doomsday stacks) and nobody plays any heavy stax(You will get smacked if you do ). These means my meta is more ripe for a deck like the Wanderer.
Ambivalentduck, I would be interested in seeing your current deck-list. The one I saw was Pre-rule change.
I haven't played Wanderer since the rule change. The first thing I did in every game was mull every card in my hand (other than Tooth and Nail) over 4 CMC. I genuinely do not believe that Wanderer makes sense any more. I would instead recommend Tasigur as the new premier ramp general.
I have been play-testing my Maelstrom Wanderer list (Still a Work in Progress). I still think that he is viable. He may have difficulties competing with the 'tier one' commanders but I believe that he is still an excellent commander in a meta that only has 'tier 2' commanders and below. I would hazard a guess that he is at least in the top 25 of the 630 potential commander choices that Gatherer lists. Just some food for thought.
I am thinking about pulling some of the more aggressive parts ouf of my Wanderer list and replacing with more theft, since we are obviously going to move slower, it might just be easier to steal a game than come out swinging fast
I am thinking about pulling some of the more aggressive parts ouf of my Wanderer list and replacing with more theft, since we are obviously going to move slower, it might just be easier to steal a game than come out swinging fast
That would be an option. Going that route would add a bit more of a control feel to the deck.
I am been testing a more of a ramp and smash face approach. The list I am working on is here: Maelstrom Wanderer: Cascade to Win. It is still a work in progress.
Your list is very hard to evaluate because you're leaving out cards like Mana Crypt and Tropical Island. I assume this is for budget reasons, but both of those cards should obviously be included. And many more.
I know arcanis can draw cards in the face of instant removal unlike consecrated sphinx, but on the flip side sphinx is much better before casting wanderer or when wanderer's not in play
karn liberated seems like a bad removal spell
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Hello All. I know have some time to go into some more details on my Wander List. For Reference, you can find the most up to date version at: Maelstrom Wanderer: Cascade To Win. I have also included it in this comment for convenience.
This take on Maelstrom Wanderer still utilized heavy ramp with the goal of playing Wanderer on Turn 4. It is a bit different in that it utilized a few different combo elements.
These are:
There are other cards that are in the list for their strong synergies as well.
The other alternative way this deck wins is by just plain old smashing face.
I have also included a decent number of library manipulation cards in order to better control my Cascades as well as draws.
Maelstrom was very hard to hate out since you just make mana and lob bombs. Other decks could lose 2+ turns on a removal spell. Hermit Druid could actually lose to a single removal spell with Split Second or well-time grave hate.
Is even possible after mulligan change to pull off a t4 maelstrom consistently?! I found myself to be able to do that before the mulligan change and it was the strenght of the deck (t3 maelstrom occasionally happened and it was backbreaking). ... . I have other competitive decks built at the moment so i would like to make maelstrom enjoyable again. Suggestions?
In my experience with my version of Wanderer, I am able to ramp into a t4/t5 wanderer relatively often. The mulligan change did seem to require the addition of some more ramp in order to be able to hit those early Wanderers, but the deck is still pretty beastly. It is also a blast to play. I would rate it Wanderer as a tier 1.5 deck currently. While Wanderer may have some difficulties in a meta full of tier 1 decks, in a less developed/competitive meta, Wanderer really does shine.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this combo only produce infinite blue mana? Because you can only choose to create a mana of one color from Food Chain, and you will need blue every time to recast Griffin...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this combo only produce infinite blue mana? Because you can only choose to create a mana of one color from Food Chain, and you will need blue every time to recast Griffin...
Yes, but you'll be generating one extra blue mana each time. Sac him enough times to generate the amount of other colored mana you need. Ex. Sac him 4 times for blue and recast him and you have 4 blue mana floating, sac him a fifth time for green and you have 5 green and 4 blue. Rinse and repeat for whatever you're looking for mana wise.
I just don't think Misthollow Griffin is strong enough, by itself its sub-par, in combo it only makes "creature" mana, and in RGU you have no consistent way to tutor for enchantments.
Hey all, i would just like to add my 2 cents into this discussion because duck seems to not know what to do with maelstrom wanderer anymore. Duck i do think you have the right idea with threat density, that is the most important thing in this deck. The others are tempo and value. If this deck plays like jund did when it was dominating standard it can be a tier 1 deck. For those of you that don't remember jund in standard every card in that list was a 2 for 1, but i think MW can do one better. 3 for 1 is the name of the game if we can get that amount of value with every card we play the other decks wont be able to keep up with us. The more 3 for 1's we can fit into the list the more value we will get when we cast MW, if you hit 2 3 for 1's on the cascades you have just turned MW into a 9 for 1 if that value isn't a rising tide analogy i don't know what is.
As for payoff spells, you need all of them to be at least 3 for 1, or an incredibly efficient threat. Blatant Thievery is a 6 for 1 in a 4 person game, while Malignus and Momir Vig, Simic Visionary are must answer threats.
The name of the game is drowning your opponents in card advantage and threats. Unfortunately with the new mulligan rule, you have to increase the ramp percentage of your deck, lowering your threat density, and increasing the number of wiff cascades. I am now playing sub-par cards like Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Rhystic Study just so I can have more early plays. Brainstorm came back in to help smooth out the early game, while adding to the dead cascade list.
As for payoff spells, you need all of them to be at least 3 for 1, or an incredibly efficient threat. Blatant Thievery is a 6 for 1 in a 4 person game, while Malignus and Momir Vig, Simic Visionary are must answer threats.
The name of the game is drowning your opponents in card advantage and threats. Unfortunately with the new mulligan rule, you have to increase the ramp percentage of your deck, lowering your threat density, and increasing the number of wiff cascades. I am now playing sub-par cards like Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Rhystic Study just so I can have more early plays. Brainstorm came back in to help smooth out the early game, while adding to the dead cascade list.
I technically have an infinite combo in here: Cloudstone Curio, Treachery and Clever Impersonator, and any creature on the battlefield that I can target with Treachery (I don't have to control it, as long as it doesn't have pro blue/hexproof/shroud). With 5 lands that don't hurt me, I get infinite mana, and probably as many casts of Wanderer as I would like. This will instantly win once you hit Tyrant of Discord or Brutalizer Exarch as you can just replay it infinite times. If you don't like combos, just take the Curio out of the deck.
I've completely modified my personal list to take into account the fact that i can no more play too many 7cmc cards. At the beginning it was a mess but after 1+ month modifications it got more harmony and I'm extremely happy with it today.
I'm a bit lazy to update my page with all results but i play it every weekend against various competitive decks (geist, braids, prossh etc.) and until now there is only one deck that I consider a real threat (meaning my winrate is below 50%) and that deck is Radha which is too aggressive.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
bannedlaughed at ^^)I play a variant of my deck for multiplayer that replaces 15 cards, but It's far from being as performant as the 1v1 version.
From multiplayer perspective and given the tradeoffs due to mulligan rule, you should play maelsy if you want to have fun & cascade suspense, not if you want 70% winrate.
I agree that other decks have become better, but you're underestimating what this used to be able to do.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
Ambivalentduck, I would be interested in seeing your current deck-list. The one I saw was Pre-rule change.
I hope to soon be cascading into victory.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
That would be an option. Going that route would add a bit more of a control feel to the deck.
I am been testing a more of a ramp and smash face approach. The list I am working on is here: Maelstrom Wanderer: Cascade to Win. It is still a work in progress.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
didn't bother picking through this whole thread but wondering if you ever tried:
multani, maro-sorcerer
krark-clan ironworks + replace 1-2 basics with tree of tales/seat of the synod + play rocks instead of farseeks
basalt monolith
aether gale
also get on that part the waterveil
I know arcanis can draw cards in the face of instant removal unlike consecrated sphinx, but on the flip side sphinx is much better before casting wanderer or when wanderer's not in play
karn liberated seems like a bad removal spell
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1x Ancient Tomb
1x Blighted Woodland
1x Breeding Pool
1x Cascade Bluffs
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Command Beacon
1x Command Tower
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Flooded Grove
7x Forest
1x Frontier Bivouac
1x Hinterland Harbor
3x Island
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Misty Rainforest
3x Mountain
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Rootbound Crag
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Temple of Abandon
1x Temple of Epiphany
1x Temple of Mystery
1x Wooded Foothills
Creatures
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Balefire Dragon
1x Bloodbraid Elf
1x Clever Impersonator
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Cryptic Annelid
1x Deadeye Navigator
1x Deceiver Exarch
1x Dragon Broodmother
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Gilded Drake
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Malignus
1x Master Biomancer
1x Misthollow Griffin
1x Palinchron
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Progenitor Mimic
1x Scourge of the Throne
1x Thada Adel, Acquisitor
1x Thassa, God of the Sea
1x Vengevine
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Zealous Conscripts
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Crystal Shard
1x Mana Vault
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sol Ring
1x Strionic Resonator
1x Thought Vessel
1x Thran Dynamo
Enchantments
1x Exploration
1x Food Chain
1x Greater Good
1x Mirri's Guile
1x Overgrowth
1x Rhystic Study
1x Soothsaying
1x Splinter Twin
1x Sylvan Library
Spells
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Explosive Vegetation
1x Hunting Wilds
1x Jokulhaups
1x Nature's Lore
1x Praetor's Counsel
1x Skyshroud Claim
1x Temporal Mastery
1x Time Warp
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Urban Evolution
1x Walk the Aeons
1x Wildfire
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Karn Liberated
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
This take on Maelstrom Wanderer still utilized heavy ramp with the goal of playing Wanderer on Turn 4. It is a bit different in that it utilized a few different combo elements.
These are:
There are other cards that are in the list for their strong synergies as well.
The other alternative way this deck wins is by just plain old smashing face.
I have also included a decent number of library manipulation cards in order to better control my Cascades as well as draws.
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
In my experience with my version of Wanderer, I am able to ramp into a t4/t5 wanderer relatively often. The mulligan change did seem to require the addition of some more ramp in order to be able to hit those early Wanderers, but the deck is still pretty beastly. It is also a blast to play. I would rate it Wanderer as a tier 1.5 deck currently. While Wanderer may have some difficulties in a meta full of tier 1 decks, in a less developed/competitive meta, Wanderer really does shine.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this combo only produce infinite blue mana? Because you can only choose to create a mana of one color from Food Chain, and you will need blue every time to recast Griffin...
My deviantART; if you're interested in alters, PM me!
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/p420
As for payoff spells, you need all of them to be at least 3 for 1, or an incredibly efficient threat. Blatant Thievery is a 6 for 1 in a 4 person game, while Malignus and Momir Vig, Simic Visionary are must answer threats.
The name of the game is drowning your opponents in card advantage and threats. Unfortunately with the new mulligan rule, you have to increase the ramp percentage of your deck, lowering your threat density, and increasing the number of wiff cascades. I am now playing sub-par cards like Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Rhystic Study just so I can have more early plays. Brainstorm came back in to help smooth out the early game, while adding to the dead cascade list.
Is your deck posted somewhere?
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
8 Maelstrom Wanderer
Creatures: 31
1 Joraga Treespeaker
2 Lotus Cobra
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Animar, Soul of Elements
3 Greenweaver Druid
3 Imperial Recruiter
3 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
3 Somberwald Sage
3 Trinket Mage
4 Clever Impersonator
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Sakashima the Imposter
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
5 Beguiler of Wills
5 Body Double
5 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
5 Malignus
6 Arcanis the Omnipotent
6 Brutalizer Exarch
6 Consecrated Sphinx
6 Hellkite Tyrant
6 Pathbreaker Ibex
6 Scourge of the Throne
7 Balefire Dragon
7 Bane of Bala Ged
7 Diluvian Primordial
7 Sphinx Ambassador
7 Tyrant of Discord
9 Void Winnower
0 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
3 Cloudstone Curio
3 Loxodon Warhammer
4 Birthing Pod
4 Thran Dynamo
5 Gilded Lotus
Sorceries: 9
4 Decimate
4 Hunting Wilds
4 Skyshroud Claim
4 Tempt with Discovery
5 Bribery
6 Time Spiral
7 Blatant Thievery
7 Knowledge Exploitation
7 Tooth and Nail
Instants: 7
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Mana Drain
3 Beast Within
4 Cryptic Command
4 Plasm Capture
5 Mystic Confluence
6 Spelljack
Enchantments: 7
2 Sylvan Library
3 Food Chain
3 Rhystic Study
4 Defense of the Heart
5 Treachery
6 Mana Reflection
7 Zendikar Resurgent
Planeswalkers: 5
3 Dack Fayden
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Xenagos, the Reveler
5 Garruk, Primal Hunter
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
0 Ancient Tomb
0 Arid Mesa
0 Bloodstained Mire
0 Breeding Pool
0 Cascade Bluffs
0 City of Brass
0 Command Beacon
0 Fire-Lit Thicket
2 Forest
0 Gaea's Cradle
0 Hinterland Harbor
4 Island
0 Mana Confluence
0 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
0 Polluted Delta
0 Reflecting Pool
0 Rootbound Crag
0 Scalding Tarn
0 Steam Vents
0 Stomping Ground
0 Sulfur Falls
0 Taiga
0 Temple of the False God
0 Verdant Catacombs
0 Volcanic Island
0 Windswept Heath
0 Wooded Foothills
I technically have an infinite combo in here: Cloudstone Curio, Treachery and Clever Impersonator, and any creature on the battlefield that I can target with Treachery (I don't have to control it, as long as it doesn't have pro blue/hexproof/shroud). With 5 lands that don't hurt me, I get infinite mana, and probably as many casts of Wanderer as I would like. This will instantly win once you hit Tyrant of Discord or Brutalizer Exarch as you can just replay it infinite times. If you don't like combos, just take the Curio out of the deck.
If I was trying for an 'optimal' deck, I would definitely play more tutors like Intuition and all of the relevant extra turn spells. And throw in a few combos, such as Palinchron + Deadeye Navigator/Vorinclex, Voice of Reason (Phantasmal Image is already in the deck) and more hate spells like Jokulhaups and Platinum Emperion. Tidespout Tyrant would go infinite with many spells in here as well. Many of the 'cute' cards like Brutalizer Exarch and Decimate would get cut.