This should give me another win-combo, and throw in more removal to boot.
Mangara works well with Sun Titan, because he'll never be exiled if i use him properly.
Many blue decks run the Temple Bell/Mind Over Matter combo, and use something like an eldrazi to ensure they never deck themselves. I'm here to tell you, Scroll Rack is amazing, and i dont want to give my opponents "good" Bribery targets.
Luminarch Ascension rarely gets onlined in multiplayer unless i'm already going to win, so that's probably going to be removed.
Rayne is only good against a few decks i play against, otherwise she's just sort of there, which i dont want.
Thoughts?
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Agreed about Luminarch and I've thought about taking it out too but it works really well with Solitary Confinement. Not sure if that makes it worth it though. Mangara should be a good addition.
Agreed about Luminarch and I've thought about taking it out too but it works really well with Solitary Confinement. Not sure if that makes it worth it though. Mangara should be a good addition.
That's very true, it works pretty darn well with Solitary, which is a vote for it to stay in. Mostly though, it just caused me to be targeted, unless i had the confinement out. I dont want that sort of attention while i combo out.
In today's testing, Mind Over Matter gives a new dimension to what i'm capable of, it's defenitely staying in over Elspeth. Temple Bell is a better draw engine than rayne ever was, and in exchange for draws, i can try to keep myself out of near-death situations, should they occur. I've only seen Mangara once, though he was rather helpful in removing a very large pest.
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Another card i've been considering cutting is March of the Machines. I almost never use it, opting instead to go with the null rod lock or tezzeret's ultimate, should he get to that point. I can't actually recall a single time i've played it the past month.
Temple Bell is the least overwhelming of the two by far. If it did something else as well, i'd probably throw it in no questions asked. In testing, it's functioning as an EOT draw.
MoM is pretty nuts. With Rings of Brighthearth and enough mana, it makes hanna's unfinite recursion combo a lot easier to assemble. If i'm not using it for that combo, It can make Mangara kill x for the price of 1, mindslaver controls more than one person's turn, jester's scepter gets 6..! Serra's Sanctum goes ballistic with mana! It's pretty nifty so far.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Lower priority Treachery - I know you prefer Duplicant, but recurrable, free creature steal is just impossibly good. With Hanna, you can have 1UW: steal something. That is amazing. Proteus Staff - repeatable general tuck. Mimic Vat - typically becomes a huge source of advantage. Thada Adel, Acquisitor - I use her early game to steal Sol Rings, and lategame to steal anything else. A quality creature. Spurnmage Advocate - great in multiplayer. Great incentive not to attack you - not only will they lose their creature, one of their opponents will get stronger. Solemn Simulacrum - Mana ramp, chump blocker, card draw. What's not to like? Stuffy Doll - indestructible blocker - GREAT with politics. Lets people attack a troublesome player "directly" by attacking the doll. Combos with Guilty Conscience (which also serves as a pseudo-Pacifism) to kill someone. Righteous Aura - cheap; ineffective against tokens, but hugely effective against Voltron generals. Can also prevent damage from burn spells. Tormod's Crypt - I don't run this myself, but if you need graveyard hate, being able to just keep this on the field with Hanna seems pretty powerful. Crystal Ball - great card quality for the low, low price of one mana per turn.
Incidentally, in my experience, counterspells are a necessary evil. All too often before I ran them, I'd get board control, and then die to an Exsanguinate for 17, or someone would play Fracturing Gust, or something. They're good insurance. And stopping people from comboing out is just dandy, too.
As a connoisseur of fun, interesting matches, I still to this day have not been able to craft that "perfect deck"; the deck that I can play and have fun over time, doesn't get boring, but simultaneously is fun to play against. I honestly don't think it exists. It's like a unicorn. A ninja unicorn.
I don't like Sovereign in the in the deck, it requires you to run auras that would otherwise be dead.
I like Angelic Shield over Angelic Renewal because it can do a ton of awesome tricks as well as save your creatures. I don't like Thada Adel either since she's just a 2/2 for 3 with no evasion against anyone with creatures.
Mystic Remora looks like it would be good, dunno if it's better than Rhysic Study though.
I definitely like Greater Auramancy and Steal Enchantment though, since it combos well with Enchanted Evening (Right now my favorite card in the deck).
One card that has been absolutely amazing for me is Sigil of the Empty Throne. Especially when used with recurrable enchantments the 4/4s it gives add up quick. Plus it gets crazy with Enchanted Evening.
@uber - i have been considering many of those, here's how i stand: Coalition Relic - A great accelerator in any multicolored deck, for sure. This one still on the "if i find room, sure" list. Aurafication - Against aggro decks, this is pretty handy. Against combo decks, it's fairly useless. If Solitary Confinement wasn't performing so well, this might have taken its slot. Mystic Remora - In my meta this is pretty useless. The vast majority of decks are creature-based, which severly reduces the effectiveness this has. Greater Auramancy - This was just readded, taking the place of the largely useless March of the Machines. Meekstone - i've been looking at this card for some time now, and i'm looking for a slot that it might fit into. Trinket Mage fetchable fattie lock is awesome.
Sovereigns/Conscription - I tried it, and really wanted it to work, but it was a synergy i really didnt need. It didnt provide anything useful other than making people want to kill my general, which isn't what i want. Platinum Emperion - this and platinum angel are two nifty little buggers. Problem is, they interfere with the mana being pumped into recursion and more useful spells. A resolved Solitary Confinement usually ends any damage problems, regardless (except for AoE spells, of course) Thada Adel - the original versions ran thada, but her stealing just made me an enemy quicker than what i wanted, even if she could help ramp. Doesnt really fit in the current version. Treachery - This is on the list of "if i find room..."
I'm not going to get into everything on your list right now, but suffice to say, i've had testing experience with almost all of them and most were ditched or put on a "maybe" llist.
@Telekinesis: Sigil of the Empty Throne does not actually do anything with Enchanted Evening. At the time you play say, a Sol Ring with EE out, it's still an artifact. When it resolves and state-based EE takes effect... it was still cast as an artifact, Sigil has already decided triggering for an artifact is a bad idea, and by then it's too late to inform it Sol Ring is really an enchantment, too.
Also - it too was originally in the deck, but it was too slow! If i was running a really enchantment heavy version (instead of the split i run here), then it might be pretty useful, but it's not, so it's not.
New Testing:
I decided not to include the MoM/Temple Bell combo, despite my initial reactions with MoM. I will be trying out, since there is now room, Meekstone and Delaying Shield
Note - for now. I could still go back to it.
Meekstone - laugh at larger creatures. Delaying Shield - Sacrifice it and bring it back, prevent damage for that turn.
Hmm without Sigil working with Enchanted Evening it loses a lot of its power. Still, it works pretty well in my deck but I'll have to test further.
Why Delaying Shield when Solitary Confinement does the same thing, but more (Makes you untargetable) and cheaper? Plus it doesn't even need a sac outlet.
I definitely need to get Greater Auramancy, Meekstone and Rhystic Study though.
Call delaying shield my little toy. It will probably be completely pointless, since solitary confinement does the job, but it's something to think about.
Since it probably wont do anything useful, i'm already lining up other possible adds. (like Treachery)
IMO, a card that gets overlooked is Followed Footsteps. First and foremost, it's really fun. Second, even if the creature you stuck it on dies immediately, you can get it back with Hanna and try again. Third, when it does stick, it's usually sick - I had one on a Terastodon the other day and it was pretty bonkers.
As a connoisseur of fun, interesting matches, I still to this day have not been able to craft that "perfect deck"; the deck that I can play and have fun over time, doesn't get boring, but simultaneously is fun to play against. I honestly don't think it exists. It's like a unicorn. A ninja unicorn.
IMO, a card that gets overlooked is Followed Footsteps. First and foremost, it's really fun. Second, even if the creature you stuck it on dies immediately, you can get it back with Hanna and try again. Third, when it does stick, it's usually sick - I had one on a Terastodon the other day and it was pretty bonkers.
Doesn't Dance of Many do the same thing, but cheaper and without needing to enchant something? Sure Followed Foosteps works every turn, but Dance of Many gets the token instantly and it's doubtful most people would let Followed Footsteps stick around for one or more activations anyway. Plus, you can get multiple uses out of Dance of Many by just letting it die and recurring it.
I'm personally toying with the idea of using Journey to Nowhere over Swords. It costs one more but it's permanent, recurrable, tutorable creature kill as long as you have a sac outlet.
Also, I've been trying to figure out ways to use Lucent Luminid since it's a tutorable and recurrable creature. It's too bad he's got no abilities...
Doesn't Dance of Many do the same thing, but cheaper and without needing to enchant something? Sure Followed Foosteps works every turn, but Dance of Many gets the token instantly and it's doubtful most people would let Followed Footsteps stick around for one or more activations anyway. Plus, you can get multiple uses out of Dance of Many by just letting it die and recurring it.
You'd be surprised what you can do with Greater Auramancy and a few counterspells. I do use Dance of Many as repeatable general kill, and I still like Footsteps. Using Vedalken Orrery to pop an Auratouched Mage into play EOT with a Footsteps is also great.
As a connoisseur of fun, interesting matches, I still to this day have not been able to craft that "perfect deck"; the deck that I can play and have fun over time, doesn't get boring, but simultaneously is fun to play against. I honestly don't think it exists. It's like a unicorn. A ninja unicorn.
Doesn't Dance of Many do the same thing, but cheaper and without needing to enchant something? Sure Followed Foosteps works every turn, but Dance of Many gets the token instantly and it's doubtful most people would let Followed Footsteps stick around for one or more activations anyway. Plus, you can get multiple uses out of Dance of Many by just letting it die and recurring it.
I'm personally toying with the idea of using Journey to Nowhere over Swords. It costs one more but it's permanent, recurrable, tutorable creature kill as long as you have a sac outlet.
Also, I've been trying to figure out ways to use Lucent Luminid since it's a tutorable and recurrable creature. It's too bad he's got no abilities...
Followed Footsteps - Oh yes, what a fun card, provided it sticks. Its main problem is that it is quite slow, but if it stays on the target for more than 3 turns, it is usually worth it. A Footsteps slapped onto an academy rector is hillarious! But i will stick with Dance of Many for now, since it's a little quicker, easier to play, and just happens to combo for infinite sun titans of doom!
Journey to Nowhere - This little gem of removal probably does deserve a place in the deck. It could take the place newly acquired by Mangara, being as it's a lot easier to play and recur.
Lucent Liminid - It's almost as awesome as an artifact creature, only this puppy doesn't have any cool abilities (other than being a complete badass ) If it had some sort of relevancy, it would probably have a spot, but it doesnt, so it doesnt.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Leonin Abunas - I'm surprised he hasn't been mentioned. Not recurrable or tutorable but he protects all your artifacts. Equip him with Lightning Greaves and you're good to go.
Master Transmuter - I've always been a fan of this card, and I think she can find her way in. Not only can it cheat stuff into play but it also acts as a way to save artifacts you need to keep, and it can't be responded to since it's part of the cost. She's also tutorable and recurrable. Bouncing and cycling through Duplicant, Solemn Simulacrum, or Sundering Titan every turn can get insane, especially when paired with Thousand-year Elixir.
Second Sunrise - There might be some combo potential here, or at least it might be good as protection from sweepers.
Leyline of Sanctity - This card has been in and out repeatedly. On the one hand, it protects you from a lot of graveyard removal, finishers and other dangerous stuff but on the other hand, it can also be dead a lot of the time. At the very least, it beats for four with Opalescence, right?
I ran Leonin Abunas awhile ago, but took it out for Hanna's Custody.. which has gone somewhere for something.. he's still defenitely viable, and greaves helps him out alot.
Master Transmuter is a card that i have been defenitely thinking about acquiring and adding. She has a very easily abuseable ability, protects herself and other artifacts, and can cheat in stuff in for cheap. (1 mana mindslaver is always nice)
Second Sunrise - had my eye on this for awhile, but mostly nothing more than a passing fancy. I'd think a field wipe would hurt others a lot more than me, seeing as i can recur them anways, but i wont dismiss this just yet. I may have missed something.
Notes: PTQ Paris in Concord, CA had a ton of EDH games going on the side, which i participated in after the cut to the top 8 was made. They have given me a couple of ideas on how to abuse Hanna, so expect an update to OP soon (read - eventuallly).
Also - Tabernacle & the Magus of said Tabernacle on the board at the same time is nuts. So is the realizaton one card might be worth my entire deck.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Notes: PTQ Paris in Concord, CA had a ton of EDH games going on the side, which i participated in after the cut to the top 8 was made. They have given me a couple of ideas on how to abuse Hanna, so expect an update to OP soon (read - eventuallly).
Also - Tabernacle & the Magus of said Tabernacle on the board at the same time is nuts. So is the realizaton one card might be worth my entire deck.
Have you considered Pendrell Mists over Magus of the Tabernacle, it does the same thing and is recurable to boot. And yeah, I wish the Tabernacle didn't cost so much, otherwise it's a land that would definitely make its way into my Hanna deck = / And I am looking forward to hear about your ideas on how to abuse Hanna! I hope you post soon!
I ran Leonin Abunas awhile ago, but took it out for Hanna's Custody.. which has gone somewhere for something.. he's still defenitely viable, and greaves helps him out alot.
Doh, forgot about Hanna's Custody. Never mind then.
Master Transmuter is a card that i have been defenitely thinking about acquiring and adding. She has a very easily abuseable ability, protects herself and other artifacts, and can cheat in stuff in for cheap. (1 mana mindslaver is always nice)
I'll be trying this out, as well as adding in Solemn Simulacrum, which is a good card in itself anyway, pretty awesome with Hanna and downright abusable with the Transmuter, as well as Scourglass since I can plop it down EOT to blow stuff up. I also really like Transmuter's interaction with Top, Draw a card with Top, in response, use Transmuter and pretty much get a free card.
Second Sunrise - had my eye on this for awhile, but mostly nothing more than a passing fancy. I'd think a field wipe would hurt others a lot more than me, seeing as i can recur them anways, but i wont dismiss this just yet. I may have missed something.
Kinda my thoughts right now, it has potential but not sure if it's worth it yet.
True, but LoS tends to stay in play, Confinement tends to go to the graveyard a lot, and it's expensive trying to keep it in play. But you're right, it's probably a bit redundant especially given that Sanctity is very situational.
Notes: PTQ Paris in Concord, CA had a ton of EDH games going on the side, which i participated in after the cut to the top 8 was made. They have given me a couple of ideas on how to abuse Hanna, so expect an update to OP soon (read - eventuallly).
Due to smokestack making an appearance, Hatching Plans has triumphed over Standstill for draw enchantment of choice, for hopefully obvious reasons.
Note: the newer version is alot more expensive and is a bit harder to play. I am not totally accepting of the more LD basis, but it works. Really well. (tutor wisely) Feel free to try World Queller over Smokestack if price is an issue.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Not sure I understand Candelabra of Tawnos. The only time I see it generating a lot of mana is with Serra's Sanctum since all the other lands produce one or occasionally two mana. Seems pretty narrow. I also don't like Winter Orb, Hanna is very mana intensive so it seems like it would hurt just as much, if not more. I guess you could use Master Transmuter to bounce it EOT so that it doesn't hurt you, but then it'd only be good with Transmuter out.
I really like Tangle Wire and Smokestack though, but I'm wondering if it's worth the hate you'll recieve going this route. I'm trying to stay away from generally unfun combos (ie. Aura Thief and Enchanted Evening). Great idea though.
I like Steel Hellkite over Arcanis the Omnipotent. Steel Hellkite is recurrable and tutorable for one, also he's a better beatstick and acts as one-sided mass removal, which is much better utility than...just drawing cards, which I think there are already better options with Future Sight, Hatching Plans, Top, Jar, etc. I guess he's there to combo with Mind over Matter but I think there are better options. Right now I'm trying to stay away from non-artifact creatures for obvious reasons, unless they're just so good that they have to be in (ie. Academy Rector, Trinket Mage).
Candelabra is an attempt to allow winter orb to not destroy my mana base as heavily, which i added as an attempt to capitalize on transmuter/sundering titan. If i drop winter orb (which i think i will) it too will go, and will have room for steel hellkite again, which is a card i love, but wasn't as helpful with winter orb. Trying arcanis and MoM just for the sheer draw power, also MoM + transmuter throws in some more toys. I need all the draw i can get.
I will continue to tweak the testing, i agree that the land hate might not be so good. (i get enough of that with Numot)
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Trying a different draw engine.
I'm still not seeing how Candelabra helps. It can generate lots of mana with Serra's Sanctum but other than that you're spending one mana to untap one land, which still puts you at even.
It only helped with any of the manafacts. It's gone now, so it's beside the point.
Arcanis is also gone in favor of a couple of different draw spells. Without Arcanis, a lot of the appeal of MoM is gone, so that's also ditched. I like draw power, what can i say?
Thousand-Year Elixer has been added, and it's pretty nuts so far. Glad i added it.
Added Arcum Dagsson engine. If i get Arcum out and tutor, i usually win that turn. Pity he's not one less and not an artifact.
Working with the removal and prevention suites in an attempt to eradicate unneeded pieces and adding draw/shuffle/accel.
Added Attunement for deck-cycling. (finally, i know)
Playing note - Memory Jar is probably the most important piece of draw in the deck. Recurrable D7 is absolutely nuts. Cracking that once or twice in a turn usually means i win that turn, too.
-Elspeth Tirel
-Rayne, Academy Chancellor
-Luminarch Ascension
+Mind Over Matter
+Temple Bell
+Mangara of Corondor
This should give me another win-combo, and throw in more removal to boot.
Mangara works well with Sun Titan, because he'll never be exiled if i use him properly.
Many blue decks run the Temple Bell/Mind Over Matter combo, and use something like an eldrazi to ensure they never deck themselves. I'm here to tell you, Scroll Rack is amazing, and i dont want to give my opponents "good" Bribery targets.
Luminarch Ascension rarely gets onlined in multiplayer unless i'm already going to win, so that's probably going to be removed.
Rayne is only good against a few decks i play against, otherwise she's just sort of there, which i dont want.
Thoughts?
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
That's very true, it works pretty darn well with Solitary, which is a vote for it to stay in. Mostly though, it just caused me to be targeted, unless i had the confinement out. I dont want that sort of attention while i combo out.
In today's testing, Mind Over Matter gives a new dimension to what i'm capable of, it's defenitely staying in over Elspeth. Temple Bell is a better draw engine than rayne ever was, and in exchange for draws, i can try to keep myself out of near-death situations, should they occur. I've only seen Mangara once, though he was rather helpful in removing a very large pest.
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Another card i've been considering cutting is March of the Machines. I almost never use it, opting instead to go with the null rod lock or tezzeret's ultimate, should he get to that point. I can't actually recall a single time i've played it the past month.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
March can probably be safely cut. Tezz's ult and Opalescence are already much better especially since they have other uses.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
MoM is pretty nuts. With Rings of Brighthearth and enough mana, it makes hanna's unfinite recursion combo a lot easier to assemble. If i'm not using it for that combo, It can make Mangara kill x for the price of 1, mindslaver controls more than one person's turn, jester's scepter gets 6..! Serra's Sanctum goes ballistic with mana! It's pretty nifty so far.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
High priority
Coalition Relic - excellent colored mana ramp
Aurification - when recurred with Hanna, really keeps people off your back
Mystic Remora - this thing is usually a recurrable Ancestral Vision for me. Sometimes better.
Greater Auramancy/Hanna's Custody - protecting your stuff is vital. No one wants to waste removal on these, either, especially considering you can recur them.
Leyline of Anticipation/Vedalken Orrery - In my deck, being able to play at instant speed is a HUGE advantage. Keep your wraths till someone attacks you, play the above two in response to removal, etc., etc.
Meekstone - like a Wrath that keeps on giving. Even lets Hanna untap.
Angelic Renewal - practically lets Hanna recur creatures.
Silent Arbiter - ineffective vs. Voltron generals, but hugely effective everywhere else. Recurrable.
Sovereigns of Lost Alara/Eldrazi Conscription - I have gotten a general damage kill with Hanna. 'Nuff said. (Also good: Followed Footsteps, Auratouched Mage, Indestructibility)
Platinum Emperion - with Hanna's Custody, makes you supremely hard to kill. They have to wrath to kill it, which means all their creatures are dead, and you simply recur it with Hanna.
Steal Enchantment - very, very rarely a dead draw. Two mana to take someone's Mirari's Wake, Mana Reflection, or Future Sight? Yes please.
Lower priority
Treachery - I know you prefer Duplicant, but recurrable, free creature steal is just impossibly good. With Hanna, you can have 1UW: steal something. That is amazing.
Proteus Staff - repeatable general tuck.
Mimic Vat - typically becomes a huge source of advantage.
Thada Adel, Acquisitor - I use her early game to steal Sol Rings, and lategame to steal anything else. A quality creature.
Spurnmage Advocate - great in multiplayer. Great incentive not to attack you - not only will they lose their creature, one of their opponents will get stronger.
Solemn Simulacrum - Mana ramp, chump blocker, card draw. What's not to like?
Stuffy Doll - indestructible blocker - GREAT with politics. Lets people attack a troublesome player "directly" by attacking the doll. Combos with Guilty Conscience (which also serves as a pseudo-Pacifism) to kill someone.
Righteous Aura - cheap; ineffective against tokens, but hugely effective against Voltron generals. Can also prevent damage from burn spells.
Tormod's Crypt - I don't run this myself, but if you need graveyard hate, being able to just keep this on the field with Hanna seems pretty powerful.
Crystal Ball - great card quality for the low, low price of one mana per turn.
Two cards I'm trying to get: Karmic Justice and Energy Field.
Incidentally, in my experience, counterspells are a necessary evil. All too often before I ran them, I'd get board control, and then die to an Exsanguinate for 17, or someone would play Fracturing Gust, or something. They're good insurance. And stopping people from comboing out is just dandy, too.
Just my two cents. I'm actually thinking of converting my Hanna deck to a Near-Death Experience deck, adding Phyrexian Processor and Crovax, Ascendant Evincar to get me to low life, Platinum Emperion, Angelic Grace, Solitary Confinement and Worship to make sure I don't die (with counterspell backup, of course), then winning with NDE or a recurred Second Chance. Leyline and Orrery help enormously with this, of course. The thought of having a deck that can win consistently with NDE excites me, what can I say.
I like Angelic Shield over Angelic Renewal because it can do a ton of awesome tricks as well as save your creatures. I don't like Thada Adel either since she's just a 2/2 for 3 with no evasion against anyone with creatures.
Mystic Remora looks like it would be good, dunno if it's better than Rhysic Study though.
I definitely like Greater Auramancy and Steal Enchantment though, since it combos well with Enchanted Evening (Right now my favorite card in the deck).
One card that has been absolutely amazing for me is Sigil of the Empty Throne. Especially when used with recurrable enchantments the 4/4s it gives add up quick. Plus it gets crazy with Enchanted Evening.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
Coalition Relic - A great accelerator in any multicolored deck, for sure. This one still on the "if i find room, sure" list.
Aurafication - Against aggro decks, this is pretty handy. Against combo decks, it's fairly useless. If Solitary Confinement wasn't performing so well, this might have taken its slot.
Mystic Remora - In my meta this is pretty useless. The vast majority of decks are creature-based, which severly reduces the effectiveness this has.
Greater Auramancy - This was just readded, taking the place of the largely useless March of the Machines.
Meekstone - i've been looking at this card for some time now, and i'm looking for a slot that it might fit into. Trinket Mage fetchable fattie lock is awesome.
Sovereigns/Conscription - I tried it, and really wanted it to work, but it was a synergy i really didnt need. It didnt provide anything useful other than making people want to kill my general, which isn't what i want.
Platinum Emperion - this and platinum angel are two nifty little buggers. Problem is, they interfere with the mana being pumped into recursion and more useful spells. A resolved Solitary Confinement usually ends any damage problems, regardless (except for AoE spells, of course)
Thada Adel - the original versions ran thada, but her stealing just made me an enemy quicker than what i wanted, even if she could help ramp. Doesnt really fit in the current version.
Treachery - This is on the list of "if i find room..."
I'm not going to get into everything on your list right now, but suffice to say, i've had testing experience with almost all of them and most were ditched or put on a "maybe" llist.
@Telekinesis:
Sigil of the Empty Throne does not actually do anything with Enchanted Evening. At the time you play say, a Sol Ring with EE out, it's still an artifact. When it resolves and state-based EE takes effect... it was still cast as an artifact, Sigil has already decided triggering for an artifact is a bad idea, and by then it's too late to inform it Sol Ring is really an enchantment, too.
Also - it too was originally in the deck, but it was too slow! If i was running a really enchantment heavy version (instead of the split i run here), then it might be pretty useful, but it's not, so it's not.
Rhystic Study is awesome.
New Testing:
I decided not to include the MoM/Temple Bell combo, despite my initial reactions with MoM. I will be trying out, since there is now room, Meekstone and Delaying Shield
Note - for now. I could still go back to it.
Meekstone - laugh at larger creatures.
Delaying Shield - Sacrifice it and bring it back, prevent damage for that turn.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Why Delaying Shield when Solitary Confinement does the same thing, but more (Makes you untargetable) and cheaper? Plus it doesn't even need a sac outlet.
I definitely need to get Greater Auramancy, Meekstone and Rhystic Study though.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
Since it probably wont do anything useful, i'm already lining up other possible adds. (like Treachery)
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I'm personally toying with the idea of using Journey to Nowhere over Swords. It costs one more but it's permanent, recurrable, tutorable creature kill as long as you have a sac outlet.
Also, I've been trying to figure out ways to use Lucent Luminid since it's a tutorable and recurrable creature. It's too bad he's got no abilities...
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
You'd be surprised what you can do with Greater Auramancy and a few counterspells. I do use Dance of Many as repeatable general kill, and I still like Footsteps. Using Vedalken Orrery to pop an Auratouched Mage into play EOT with a Footsteps is also great.
Followed Footsteps - Oh yes, what a fun card, provided it sticks. Its main problem is that it is quite slow, but if it stays on the target for more than 3 turns, it is usually worth it. A Footsteps slapped onto an academy rector is hillarious! But i will stick with Dance of Many for now, since it's a little quicker, easier to play, and just happens to combo for infinite sun titans of doom!
Journey to Nowhere - This little gem of removal probably does deserve a place in the deck. It could take the place newly acquired by Mangara, being as it's a lot easier to play and recur.
Lucent Liminid - It's almost as awesome as an artifact creature, only this puppy doesn't have any cool abilities (other than being a complete badass ) If it had some sort of relevancy, it would probably have a spot, but it doesnt, so it doesnt.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Leonin Abunas - I'm surprised he hasn't been mentioned. Not recurrable or tutorable but he protects all your artifacts. Equip him with Lightning Greaves and you're good to go.
Master Transmuter - I've always been a fan of this card, and I think she can find her way in. Not only can it cheat stuff into play but it also acts as a way to save artifacts you need to keep, and it can't be responded to since it's part of the cost. She's also tutorable and recurrable. Bouncing and cycling through Duplicant, Solemn Simulacrum, or Sundering Titan every turn can get insane, especially when paired with Thousand-year Elixir.
Second Sunrise - There might be some combo potential here, or at least it might be good as protection from sweepers.
Leyline of Sanctity - This card has been in and out repeatedly. On the one hand, it protects you from a lot of graveyard removal, finishers and other dangerous stuff but on the other hand, it can also be dead a lot of the time. At the very least, it beats for four with Opalescence, right?
Thoughts on these?
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
Master Transmuter is a card that i have been defenitely thinking about acquiring and adding. She has a very easily abuseable ability, protects herself and other artifacts, and can cheat in stuff in for cheap. (1 mana mindslaver is always nice)
Second Sunrise - had my eye on this for awhile, but mostly nothing more than a passing fancy. I'd think a field wipe would hurt others a lot more than me, seeing as i can recur them anways, but i wont dismiss this just yet. I may have missed something.
Leyline of Sanctity - Works in a pinch for sure, i'm still a huge fan of solitary confinement though.
Notes: PTQ Paris in Concord, CA had a ton of EDH games going on the side, which i participated in after the cut to the top 8 was made. They have given me a couple of ideas on how to abuse Hanna, so expect an update to OP soon (read - eventuallly).
Also - Tabernacle & the Magus of said Tabernacle on the board at the same time is nuts. So is the realizaton one card might be worth my entire deck.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Have you considered Pendrell Mists over Magus of the Tabernacle, it does the same thing and is recurable to boot. And yeah, I wish the Tabernacle didn't cost so much, otherwise it's a land that would definitely make its way into my Hanna deck = / And I am looking forward to hear about your ideas on how to abuse Hanna! I hope you post soon!
I'll be trying this out, as well as adding in Solemn Simulacrum, which is a good card in itself anyway, pretty awesome with Hanna and downright abusable with the Transmuter, as well as Scourglass since I can plop it down EOT to blow stuff up. I also really like Transmuter's interaction with Top, Draw a card with Top, in response, use Transmuter and pretty much get a free card.
Kinda my thoughts right now, it has potential but not sure if it's worth it yet.
True, but LoS tends to stay in play, Confinement tends to go to the graveyard a lot, and it's expensive trying to keep it in play. But you're right, it's probably a bit redundant especially given that Sanctity is very situational.
I'll definitely be looking forward to this.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
I was less lazy today than i thought i'd be - so i actually put stuff in the "testing" area.
I'm not sold on some of them (winter orb, tangle wire being examples) but others (smokestack, master transmuter) are crazy good.
I finally got a transmute artifact, so that has replaced reshape. Due to the artifact heavy investments making an appearance, Etherium Sculptor is going in over Cloud Key.
Due to smokestack making an appearance, Hatching Plans has triumphed over Standstill for draw enchantment of choice, for hopefully obvious reasons.
Note: the newer version is alot more expensive and is a bit harder to play. I am not totally accepting of the more LD basis, but it works. Really well. (tutor wisely) Feel free to try World Queller over Smokestack if price is an issue.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I really like Tangle Wire and Smokestack though, but I'm wondering if it's worth the hate you'll recieve going this route. I'm trying to stay away from generally unfun combos (ie. Aura Thief and Enchanted Evening). Great idea though.
I like Steel Hellkite over Arcanis the Omnipotent. Steel Hellkite is recurrable and tutorable for one, also he's a better beatstick and acts as one-sided mass removal, which is much better utility than...just drawing cards, which I think there are already better options with Future Sight, Hatching Plans, Top, Jar, etc. I guess he's there to combo with Mind over Matter but I think there are better options. Right now I'm trying to stay away from non-artifact creatures for obvious reasons, unless they're just so good that they have to be in (ie. Academy Rector, Trinket Mage).
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
I will continue to tweak the testing, i agree that the land hate might not be so good. (i get enough of that with Numot)
---
Trying a different draw engine.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Arcanis isn't tutorable so he seems redundant when there's already Future Sight + Sensei's Divining Top, Hatching Plans, Memory Jar, Solemn Simulacrum, Rhystic Study, etc, all of which work better. Six mana creatures that can't be tutored/recurred should help win the game, not just draw more cards.
I'd love to hear about MoM testing though. Right now I use Thousand Year Elixer since it also gives Transmuter and Hanna pseudo-haste.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
Arcanis is also gone in favor of a couple of different draw spells. Without Arcanis, a lot of the appeal of MoM is gone, so that's also ditched. I like draw power, what can i say?
Thousand-Year Elixer has been added, and it's pretty nuts so far. Glad i added it.
OP has been updated.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Added Arcum Dagsson engine. If i get Arcum out and tutor, i usually win that turn. Pity he's not one less and not an artifact.
Working with the removal and prevention suites in an attempt to eradicate unneeded pieces and adding draw/shuffle/accel.
Added Attunement for deck-cycling. (finally, i know)
Playing note -
Memory Jar is probably the most important piece of draw in the deck. Recurrable D7 is absolutely nuts. Cracking that once or twice in a turn usually means i win that turn, too.
oh - considering Metalworker/Voltaic Construct combo.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary