This deck has been finally retired to make way for a more aggressive Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord deck. I did transfer a fair amount of the deck's skeleton over, but the new build is less concerned with random sac outlets and more concerned with ramping into fatties while bleeding my opponents' life totals.
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So I finally got my Savra deck up and running, but I'm still looking for ways to make it better. The deck rocks, and once it gets going people have a hard time keeping anything on the board. And high and mighty Uril gets screwed beyond belief. Still, feel free to share any ideas. I know the mana base could have a lot of money dumped into it, but it works fine for me (I'm on a budget).
A few of my card choices may seem redundant or odd, but I know how much hate Savra generates and expect to have to play with her dead often. To that end, I've added Grave Pact and Butcher of Malakir as backup.
I need to find my Tainted Woods - had a couple kicking around, but I have no idea where they went. As for the rest, my manabase really isn't hurting. I've never been color-screwed even with so many basics. I'm leery of playing too many "comes into play tapped" lands, though because I have been mana-screwed where I just need one more mana this turn rather than next turn. I may go with the other cyclers, though, because they're cheap and Worm Harvest likes them in the graveyard.
I would be open to dropping Violet Pall, Drooling Groodian, Gaze of Gorgon, and/or Edge of Autumn if the right cards came along. They each serve a purpose but aren't essential. On the other hand, Cabal Archon, Elvish Harbinger, Absorb Vis and Sylvan Bounty probably aren't going anywhere. With my general in play, Archon is a self-saccing black creature that pays for Savra's ability on his own, plus makes someone lose a little. Harbinger tutors for any of my elves, which is particularly nice if Savra gets hit by Hallowed Burial or Spin into Myth, etc. Harbinger also continues to produce green mana after I get Contamination in play. The other two are mana-fixing when needed and life gain to offset whatever I pay to make my opponents sac.
Phyrexian Arena is a good possibility. I have a spare sitting in my binder. I might give it a try. Darkest Hour seems too expensive life-wise, as it completely shuts down Savra's lifegain ability. I tried to use green/black creatures as much as possible so making my opponents sac didn't affect my life total, but this would force me to pay 2 life every single time. Mind's Eye is good, but I don't have any. Harmonize - frankly, I'd sooner put in something like Elvish Visionary because this is a creature based deck, and I could recur it easier, plus it comes out sooner. Reanimate and Animate Dead are nice and cheap recursion, but I've actually been thinking more about Corpse Dance. I like the instant speed and the buyback, and I could just sac the creature rather than exile it. Symbiotic Wurm is great for making lots of green creatures, and if I went with more things that burn me I would probably do it, but so far I think I've got a decent balance of lifeburn to lifegain. Lightning Greaves is indeed an awesome card, but I have only one, and it is in another EDH deck. Otherwise, it would probably go in.
I just played a FFA game last night against Zur and Uril - two powerful decks that are particularly vulnerable to this deck. Savra is like their Kryptonite. After making them sac their pitifully few creatures, I landed Mycoloth with four counters and Contamination. It was gg.
My bad on darkest hour, I didn't notice it was a replacement effect, and since painter's servant is banned, I can see why a lot of savra players are looking for black token generators. Good job on the win.
Instead of violet pall you could try Broken Visage. Carnage Altar would be a decent source of continuous card draw that fits your requirements.
I actually remember seeing a Broken Visage in one of my card boxes somewhere. Each card has its advantages and drawbacks, but I think you're probably right that I should replace it. As for Carnage Altar, I've considered it but usually have cards in hand - I hold back some because while I'm wrathing everyone else's board, I expect them to do the same to me (playing their own wrath no longer hurts them after I've already cleared their board). If I did add the Altar, what would you suggest I pull out?
I haven't played against any counter-focused decks. Sure, there's an occasional counter, but my Kira deck is possibly the only mono-blue deck locally, and it only runs 7 hard counterspells. There just isn't much counter in the local meta. I suppose you could try cards like Insist to fish out the counter and Eyes of the Wisent to generate creatures whenever they do counter.
Woodfall Primus is great, and once I get yet another copy (the rest are in other decks), I'll probably put him in in place of Indrik Stomphowler.
Like I said, just need another copy of Primus to throw in. Puppeteer Clique is awesome - my only copy is in my Teysa Deck. Add that to the list of card to get. Volrath's Stronghold is a bit expensive for my tastes but a great include for a non-budget player. Penumbra Wurm actually brings in the whole penumbra set as possibilities, as they give the green sac and the black sac, almost like a green/black creature but with time in between. I'll have to think about it.
And as for Barter in Blood, I was about to tell you it's already in there, but then I took a second look and noticed it wasn't. (wanders over to a pile of cards on the dresser, finds the cards that had been set aside as possibles for this deck, wonders why Barter in Blood is still in the pile and not yet in the deck.) I mean, I think I only cut Innocent Blood from the deck because I thought Barter in Blood was already in there. Great, now what to take out? Gaze of the Gorgon?
Thanks for your advice!
I think a must have is Lord of extinction especially in a deck like this!!^^"
Hadn't looked at his price tag in a while - just assumed he was out of my range. I was, however, very pleasantly surprised to see he had dropped to $2-3. I will have to get him for my third beater. Vulturous Zombie has potential to grow big and sports evasion. Mortivore gets beefy and regenerates for cheap. Lord of Extinction would be a nice include because he's even beefier, even if he is more vulnerable that Morty. Still, a third beater could end games quicker after I've proven that my opponents can't keep a creature.
I would try swapping the Sarpadian empires for the carnage altar, seeing as you already have a good amount of token makers. have you thought about Endrek sahr, master breeder? He makes mad tokens.
I couldn't find my Broken Visage, but I pulled Violet Pall for Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder, figuring that I needed more creatures and less limited removal. I particularly like Endrek's interaction with casting a devour creature.
I'm not sure that I want to add Carnage Alter because it's so mana intensive, but I just traded for another copy of Skullclamp and was thinking of adding it. I know it doesn't provide a sacrifice outlet like the alter, but for each mana I spend, I draw two cards (let's face it, either it kills or I sac what it's on - either way I draw), rather than drawing one card for each three mana. It leaves me with more mana to play whatever I draw. What do you think? Carnage Alter or Skullclamp?
Seconded for the Skullclamp. It gets out of control with the token makers, but if you're the first one in the game to land it, you just slapped a target on your forehead.
Butcher or Malakir, Deranged Hermit, Phyrexian Reclamation, Viridian Zealot, Lord of Extinction and Fecundity are all cards that would make this deck really really good.
Cards i don't really like: Briarhorn, Elvish Skysweeper, Marsh Flitter, the two basic landcyclers, Worm Harvest, and Cabal Archon.
EDIT: I assumed grave pact was in here, but when I scanned your list, it wasn't. I think it's a must-have for this deck, as it doubles up with savra on black dudes, making your black sacs barters round the table, as well as making green sacs all the more punishing for your opponents.
Butcher or Malakir, Deranged Hermit, Phyrexian Reclamation, Viridian Zealot, Lord of Extinction and Fecundity are all cards that would make this deck really really good.
Cards i don't really like: Briarhorn, Elvish Skysweeper, Marsh Flitter, the two basic landcyclers, Worm Harvest, and Cabal Archon.
EDIT: I assumed grave pact was in here, but when I scanned your list, it wasn't. I think it's a must-have for this deck, as it doubles up with savra on black dudes, making your black sacs barters round the table, as well as making green sacs all the more punishing for your opponents.
Briarhorn is a pump spell that counts as a green sac - maybe he'll come out someday, but for now he serves a purpose. Elvish Skysweeper is gone. Marsh Flitter is way too good to lose - it provides two black tokens and a sac outlet for them, afterwhich you can sac it to one of your other outlets. This baby has saved me the game before. The two basic landcyclers double as life if I have to sac too many black creatures - they might go eventually, but for now I need budget mana-fixing. I'm still waiting to play Worm Harvest to see if I like it or not - it will probably go someday. And Cabal Archon is probably staying for a while - I like that he sacs himself, pays the 2 life for Savra, and takes down an opponent's life.
As for Grave Pact, I've considered it since I started the thread, but I only have one copy, and it's in another deck. With the Butcher coming out, though, I'll probably just use him instead.
Briarhorn is a pump spell that counts as a green sac - maybe he'll come out someday, but for now he serves a purpose. Elvish Skysweeper is gone. Marsh Flitter is way too good to lose - it provides two black tokens and a sac outlet for them, afterwhich you can sac it to one of your other outlets. This baby has saved me the game before. The two basic landcyclers double as life if I have to sac too many black creatures - they might go eventually, but for now I need budget mana-fixing. I'm still waiting to play Worm Harvest to see if I like it or not - it will probably go someday. And Cabal Archon is probably staying for a while - I like that he sacs himself, pays the 2 life for Savra, and takes down an opponent's life.
As for Grave Pact, I've considered it since I started the thread, but I only have one copy, and it's in another deck. With the Butcher coming out, though, I'll probably just use him instead.
When you are sacrificing so many creatures, Fecundity will help you more than it will help your opponent, and as you said, you will be playing without Savra on the board most of the time (which would be the reason for so much card draw by your opponents). The Phyrexian Reclamation can be activated multiple times a turn (I doubled up on it and Cemetery in my Kresh to great effect), and I think recurring cards are awesome. I do not like Marrow Chomper, and think that Genesis (seriously one of the best green cards ever for EDH) would be a far better inclusion. Hermit is like, 9 power worth of dudes for 5 mana. 4 tokens that can be easily clamped and stuff. Hermit is the bomb. (also if you don't pay echo costs, you sacrifice! the hermit! :D)
As for budget mana fixing, there's golgari signet and coldsteel heart that could replace those guys. instead of the minimal thinning effect, you get acceleration. I think acceleration is important.
As for the Butcher, while I like him in the deck, I would run grave pact over him, because pact comes down earlier and is harder to remove. However, I would try and run both, because redundancy is really good in a singleton format.
Well, I cut Worm Harvest even though I've never played it. I finally traded for another copy of Grave Pact and it just seemed like the best thing to chop.
I've found Victimize to be simply amazing in my Savra deck.
I also really like Buried Alive, works really well with Genesis.
Also I'm confused about your decision of Sprout Swarm over Worm Harvest, I find Dredge give me enough lands in the 'yard to make it worthwhile, and the Worm tokens and B/G which means they trigger Savra while the Saprolings don't at all. Life from the Loam will let you keep using Worm Harvest, and it works great with lands like Tectonic Edge
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I've found Victimize to be simply amazing in my Savra deck.
I can't believe I've spaced on this card for so long - I used to run it in my dragon reanimator for years (sac Bladewing's Thrall, get two dragons and the thrall back). It's in in place of Dread Return.
I only have a couple copies of Buried Alive, and they're in another deck. I also traded away my only Genesis. I know they're great cards, but the deck does alright without. I would recommend them both for anyone building the deck with a bigger budget than I have. Buried Alive, fetching Genesis, Nim Devourer, Grave-Shell Scarab, and/or Shambling Shell would give you all sorts of nasty stuff to play around Savra.
Also I'm confused about your decision of Sprout Swarm over Worm Harvest, I find Dredge give me enough lands in the 'yard to make it worthwhile, and the Worm tokens and B/G which means they trigger Savra while the Saprolings don't at all. Life from the Loam will let you keep using Worm Harvest, and it works great with lands like Tectonic Edge
With my current build, I feel that Sprout Swarm is the better card. If I had more fetch lands/Stripmine/DustBowl/TectonicEdge/etc in it, Worm Harvest might be better. However, I usually only have one land in the graveyard anyway, except for when I've been dredging, and if I've been dredging, I usually already have the game. I realize that Worm Harvest produces black/green tokens instead of just green, but with the additions of Grave Pact and Butcher of Malakir, that becomes less relevant. At which point, I choose instant speed with convoke over a fixed-cost sorcery that also strips lands from my hand. And this doesn't even consider that there will be times when I could pay 5 and get nothing because there are no land in my graveyard (either none went in, or someone removed them).
Without regard to budget, running fetch lands and Life from the Loam would certainly make Worm Harvest a much more powerful card.
Added Corpse Dance in place of Makeshift Mannequin. I realize I lose a little control, having to choose the top creature card, but the buyback is well worth it, and it's still instant speed.
Plunge into darkness - Interesting card. I may have to try it out. I like sorta-tutoring, but I don't like having to exile the cards I don't choose (what if I really want two or more of them? They're gone forever). We'll see.
Rite of Consumption - I like the card in a Quillspike deck, but the damage/lifegain would be pretty minimal in this deck, leaving it as a 2 mana sac outlet. I had considered it before, but I never felt it was good enough. Most of my sac outlets are either creatures themselves, or they do something else, like produce mana, mess up my opponent's mana, reanimate, or force my opponents to sac regardless of whether my general is out or not.
Starved Rusalka - I don't currently feel like I need more lifegain. I have 8 cards that can gain life besides sacing a green creature with Savra out, and I am now less reliant on having to pay life, thanks to Butcher of Malakir and Grave Pact.
I've got a copy each of Verdant Force and Reprocess that I'm looking to put in. Any votes on what to cut? I'm considering Puppeteer Clique and Sproutswarm, but I'm looking for input. I know some people have voted to cut Sylvan Bounty and Absorb Vis. Any other ideas? (adding a reason would help)
I say cut the bounty and vis. At best, they are a 8 point life swing for 6+ mana, which is really inefficient, or it gives you a basic land into your hand for two mana, which is also bad. At the very least, cut one of them for Primal Growth, which is true mana accel with a sac outlet.
Don't cut the Puppeteer Clique, because it gives you graveyard hate, card advantage, and a great recursion target. Also, I like Sprout Swarm for the ability to either use excess mana before your turn, or to quickly build your army to sac all at once.
Cuts: Briarhorn: Even for a instant speed sac and save, it just doesn't cut it for what else you could be doing. Sarpadian Empires, Vol. VII: I know you're short on Black token makers, but this is just so slow and clunky Cabal Archon: Again, slow and inefficient. If you're going to keep it, I recommend adding Rotlung Reanimator, which has synergy and gives you a black token when you sack it.
For additional card suggestions: Carrion: Black tokens, instant, and sac outlet. Useful against the rare targeted removal. What more could you ask for? Grim Feast: Helps offset Savra & synergistic Garruk Wildspeaker: Non-budget. Tokens, Overrun, and Accel in a tight little package Mind Slash: More Nath fun, Anti-Combo & Anti-Control Maelstrom Pulse: Non-budget, but the versatility is almost unmatched, and takes care of opposing token decks, which can be annoying if they are making more than you can kill. Primal Command: Tutor and Life gain are the big draws here, grave hate is always good, and the bounce can get you out of tight spots against enchantment and artifact decks. Terastodon: Almost a auto-include, because you can spread out the targets, then just kill the elephants they received. Deathrender: With Deadwood Treefolk, Eternal Witness, a free sac outlet and one other creature, you got an infinite combo for whatever that other is. And I don't think anyone will be upset at you for a 5 card combo that involves creatures, artifacts, and the graveyard. Ooze Garden: As the only deck ever that this card could ever be good in, I have to add it to the list. Verdeloth the Ancient: Tokens! Wolfbriar Elemental: More Tokens!
Land Suggestions: I know you're on a budget, but lands are a great way to generate card advantage with minimum risk just by replacing basic lands. Bojuka Bog: Additional graveyard hate Leechridden Swamp: Not great, but useful. Kills off that guy who stabilized at 1 or 2 life behind a giant army. Mosswort Bridge: Really easy to activate once your tokens get going, and its good CA Oran-Rief, the Vastwood: You might be making lots of tokens, and you'll want to beat down with them sometime. Politically useful on occasion. Polluted Mire: Cycling on lands is good Tectonic Edge: There will be lands you'll want to kill on their turn, not waiting for your sorcery speed answer Verdant Catacombs: Obvious and non-budget, but if you got one, why not?
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So I finally got my Savra deck up and running, but I'm still looking for ways to make it better. The deck rocks, and once it gets going people have a hard time keeping anything on the board. And high and mighty Uril gets screwed beyond belief. Still, feel free to share any ideas. I know the mana base could have a lot of money dumped into it, but it works fine for me (I'm on a budget).
A few of my card choices may seem redundant or odd, but I know how much hate Savra generates and expect to have to play with her dead often. To that end, I've added Grave Pact and Butcher of Malakir as backup.
1 Savra, Queen of the Golgari
SAC OUTLETS
1 Abyssal Gatekeeper
1 Apprentice Necromancer (+recursion)
1 Barter in Blood
1 Birthing Pod (+creature tutor)
1 Bone Shredder (+removal)
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Cabal Archon (+life)
1 Contamination (+mana-screw)
1 Diabolic Intent (+tutor)
1 Doomed Necromancer (+recursion)
1 Doomgape (+life)
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Fleshwrither (+tutor)
1 Golgari Guildmage (+recursion)
1 Grave-Shell Scarab (+recursion,draw)
1 Grim Backwoods (+draw)
1 Gutless Ghoul (+life)
1 High Market (+life)
1 Marrow Chomper (+life)
1 Marsh Flitter (+tokens)
1 Miren, the Moaning Well (+life)
1 Momentous Fall (+draw,life)
1 Mycoloth (+tokens)
1 Nim Devourer (+recursion)
1 Perilous Forays (+manaramp)
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Primal Growth (+manafix)
1 Reprocess (+draw)
1 Sadistic Hypnotist (Nath's friend)
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder (+manafix)
1 Sengir Nosferatu
1 Shambling Shell (+recursion)
1 Shriekmaw (+removal)
1 Skeletal Vampire (+tokens)
1 Skullmulcher (+draw)
1 Victimize (+recursion)
1 Viridian Zealot (+removal)
1 Yavimaya Elder (+draw,manafix)
1 Xathrid Demon (+burn)
1 Cemetery Reaper (+gravehate)
1 Creakwood Liege
1 Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
1 Grave Titan
1 Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
1 Necrogenesis (+gravehate)
1 Sprout Swarm
1 Verdant Force
RECURSION
1 Bloodghast
1 Corpse Dance
1 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gleancrawler
1 Hag Hedge-Mage
1 Masked Admirers (+draw)
1 Nether Traitor
1 Oath of Ghouls
1 Oversold Cemetery
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Sheoldred, Whspering One (+forced sac)
OTHER CREATURES
1 Butcher of Malakir (+removal)
1 Elvish Harbinger (+tutor)
1 Farhaven Elf (+manafix)
1 Krosan Tusker (+manafix,draw)
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Sapling of Colfenor (+awesome)
1 Twisted Abomination (+manafix)
1 Woodfall Primus (+removal)
1 Grave Pact
1 Living Death
1 Plague Wind (removal)
1 Skullclamp (draw)
OTHER LAND (don't forget 4 in sac outlets)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Jund Panorama
1 Tainted Wood
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Treetop Village
13 Forest
12 Swamp
CARDS I AM CONSIDERING OR TRYING TO FIND:
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, Disciple of Bolas, Extractor Demon, Grim Feast, Carrion
CUMULATIVE CHANGELOG:
- Borderland Ranger, + Yavimaya Elder
- Candles of Leng, + Oversold Cemetary
- Consume Spirit, + Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
- Weatherseed Totem, + Gleancrawler
- Tendrils of Corruption, + Sengir Nosferatu
- Rendclaw Trow, + Eternal Witness
- Innocent Blood, + Abyssal Gatekeeper
- Gaze of the Gorgon, + Barter in Blood
- Edge of Autumn, + Marrow Chomper
- Treacherous Urge, + Puppeteer Clique
- Violet Pall, + Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
- Slippery Karst, + Tranquil Thicket
- Elvish Skyweeper, + Skullclamp
- Indrik Stomphowler, + Woodfall Primus
- Drooling Groodion, + Xathrid Demon
- Vulturous Zombie, +Lord of Extinction
- Hell's Caretaker, +Butcher of Malakir
- Worm Harvest, + Grave Pact
- Dread Return, + Victimize
- Golgari Rotwurm, + Nim Devourer
- Makeshift mannequin, + Corpse Dance
- Briarhorn, + Verdant Force
- Sylvan Bounty, + Reprocess
- Absorb Vis, + Apprentice Necromancer
- Dimir Machinations, + Diabolic Intent
- Swamp, + Bojuka Bog
- Minion Reflector, + Oath of Ghouls
- Overrun, + Bone Shredder
- Swamp, + Primal Growth
- Desecrator Hag, + Momentous Fall
- Forest, + Tainted Wood
- Putrefy, + Viridian Zealot
- Demonic Tutor, + Reassembling Skeleton
- Cabal Archon, + Birthing Pod
- Deadwood Treefolk, + Bloodghast
- Lord of Extinction, + Perilous Forays
- Sapling of Colfenor, + Sheoldred, Whispering One
- Crypt of Agadeem, + Grim Backwoods
- Sarpadian Empires, Vol. VII, + Grave Titan
- Mortivore, + Living Death
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Drop Violet Pall, Cabal Archon, Drooling Groodian, Gaze of Gorgon, Edge of Autumn, Elvish Harbinger, Absorb Vis and Sylvan Bounty
Add Phyrexian Arena, Darkest Hour, Mind's Eye, Harmonize, Reanimate, Animate Dead, Symbiotic Wurm, and Lightning Greaves.
//www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/8552.html[/url">
[url]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5301342#post5301342"]What kind of Magic Player are you?
Probably the most brokenly created commander deck ever:http://deckstats.net/decks/811/1859-ubr-teps-desire-commander
I need to find my Tainted Woods - had a couple kicking around, but I have no idea where they went. As for the rest, my manabase really isn't hurting. I've never been color-screwed even with so many basics. I'm leery of playing too many "comes into play tapped" lands, though because I have been mana-screwed where I just need one more mana this turn rather than next turn. I may go with the other cyclers, though, because they're cheap and Worm Harvest likes them in the graveyard.
I would be open to dropping Violet Pall, Drooling Groodian, Gaze of Gorgon, and/or Edge of Autumn if the right cards came along. They each serve a purpose but aren't essential. On the other hand, Cabal Archon, Elvish Harbinger, Absorb Vis and Sylvan Bounty probably aren't going anywhere. With my general in play, Archon is a self-saccing black creature that pays for Savra's ability on his own, plus makes someone lose a little. Harbinger tutors for any of my elves, which is particularly nice if Savra gets hit by Hallowed Burial or Spin into Myth, etc. Harbinger also continues to produce green mana after I get Contamination in play. The other two are mana-fixing when needed and life gain to offset whatever I pay to make my opponents sac.
Phyrexian Arena is a good possibility. I have a spare sitting in my binder. I might give it a try.
Darkest Hour seems too expensive life-wise, as it completely shuts down Savra's lifegain ability. I tried to use green/black creatures as much as possible so making my opponents sac didn't affect my life total, but this would force me to pay 2 life every single time.
Mind's Eye is good, but I don't have any.
Harmonize - frankly, I'd sooner put in something like Elvish Visionary because this is a creature based deck, and I could recur it easier, plus it comes out sooner.
Reanimate and Animate Dead are nice and cheap recursion, but I've actually been thinking more about Corpse Dance. I like the instant speed and the buyback, and I could just sac the creature rather than exile it.
Symbiotic Wurm is great for making lots of green creatures, and if I went with more things that burn me I would probably do it, but so far I think I've got a decent balance of lifeburn to lifegain.
Lightning Greaves is indeed an awesome card, but I have only one, and it is in another EDH deck. Otherwise, it would probably go in.
I just played a FFA game last night against Zur and Uril - two powerful decks that are particularly vulnerable to this deck. Savra is like their Kryptonite. After making them sac their pitifully few creatures, I landed Mycoloth with four counters and Contamination. It was gg.
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//www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/8552.html[/url">
[url]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5301342#post5301342"]What kind of Magic Player are you?
Probably the most brokenly created commander deck ever:http://deckstats.net/decks/811/1859-ubr-teps-desire-commander
I actually remember seeing a Broken Visage in one of my card boxes somewhere. Each card has its advantages and drawbacks, but I think you're probably right that I should replace it. As for Carnage Altar, I've considered it but usually have cards in hand - I hold back some because while I'm wrathing everyone else's board, I expect them to do the same to me (playing their own wrath no longer hurts them after I've already cleared their board). If I did add the Altar, what would you suggest I pull out?
I haven't played against any counter-focused decks. Sure, there's an occasional counter, but my Kira deck is possibly the only mono-blue deck locally, and it only runs 7 hard counterspells. There just isn't much counter in the local meta. I suppose you could try cards like Insist to fish out the counter and Eyes of the Wisent to generate creatures whenever they do counter.
Woodfall Primus is great, and once I get yet another copy (the rest are in other decks), I'll probably put him in in place of Indrik Stomphowler.
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Some other cards I've found are awesome:
Puppeteer Clique
Volrath's Stronghold
Mindslicer
Penumbra Wurm
Barter in Blood
Like I said, just need another copy of Primus to throw in. Puppeteer Clique is awesome - my only copy is in my Teysa Deck. Add that to the list of card to get. Volrath's Stronghold is a bit expensive for my tastes but a great include for a non-budget player. Penumbra Wurm actually brings in the whole penumbra set as possibilities, as they give the green sac and the black sac, almost like a green/black creature but with time in between. I'll have to think about it.
And as for Barter in Blood, I was about to tell you it's already in there, but then I took a second look and noticed it wasn't. (wanders over to a pile of cards on the dresser, finds the cards that had been set aside as possibles for this deck, wonders why Barter in Blood is still in the pile and not yet in the deck.) I mean, I think I only cut Innocent Blood from the deck because I thought Barter in Blood was already in there. Great, now what to take out? Gaze of the Gorgon?
Hadn't looked at his price tag in a while - just assumed he was out of my range. I was, however, very pleasantly surprised to see he had dropped to $2-3. I will have to get him for my third beater. Vulturous Zombie has potential to grow big and sports evasion. Mortivore gets beefy and regenerates for cheap. Lord of Extinction would be a nice include because he's even beefier, even if he is more vulnerable that Morty. Still, a third beater could end games quicker after I've proven that my opponents can't keep a creature.
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I'm not sure that I want to add Carnage Alter because it's so mana intensive, but I just traded for another copy of Skullclamp and was thinking of adding it. I know it doesn't provide a sacrifice outlet like the alter, but for each mana I spend, I draw two cards (let's face it, either it kills or I sac what it's on - either way I draw), rather than drawing one card for each three mana. It leaves me with more mana to play whatever I draw. What do you think? Carnage Alter or Skullclamp?
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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Cards i don't really like: Briarhorn, Elvish Skysweeper, Marsh Flitter, the two basic landcyclers, Worm Harvest, and Cabal Archon.
EDIT: I assumed grave pact was in here, but when I scanned your list, it wasn't. I think it's a must-have for this deck, as it doubles up with savra on black dudes, making your black sacs barters round the table, as well as making green sacs all the more punishing for your opponents.
- Slippery Karst, + Tranquil Thicket
- Elvish Skyweeper, + Skullclamp
- Indrik Stomphowler, + Woodfall Primus
- Drooling Groodion, + Xathrid Demon
Still looking to make more once I get different cards.
I've also been looking for my weakest cards to see what I'll cut in the near future. Aside from direct replacements (like Lord of Extinction in place of Vulturous Zombie), I feel like the next most likely to go are Hell's Caretaker, Dread Return, and Minion Reflector.
Once Worldwake comes out, I will try for Butcher of Malakir. I've been trying to get a copy of Viridan Zealot since before my first build, but no one has them in their trade. I have been looking for a Lord of Extinction. Not really a fan of Deranged Hermit, Phyrexian Reclamation (Oversold Cemetary does something similar without costing extra mana and life), or Fecundity (I want to starve my opponents of cards, not replace everything I kill).
Briarhorn is a pump spell that counts as a green sac - maybe he'll come out someday, but for now he serves a purpose. Elvish Skysweeper is gone. Marsh Flitter is way too good to lose - it provides two black tokens and a sac outlet for them, afterwhich you can sac it to one of your other outlets. This baby has saved me the game before. The two basic landcyclers double as life if I have to sac too many black creatures - they might go eventually, but for now I need budget mana-fixing. I'm still waiting to play Worm Harvest to see if I like it or not - it will probably go someday. And Cabal Archon is probably staying for a while - I like that he sacs himself, pays the 2 life for Savra, and takes down an opponent's life.
As for Grave Pact, I've considered it since I started the thread, but I only have one copy, and it's in another deck. With the Butcher coming out, though, I'll probably just use him instead.
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When you are sacrificing so many creatures, Fecundity will help you more than it will help your opponent, and as you said, you will be playing without Savra on the board most of the time (which would be the reason for so much card draw by your opponents). The Phyrexian Reclamation can be activated multiple times a turn (I doubled up on it and Cemetery in my Kresh to great effect), and I think recurring cards are awesome. I do not like Marrow Chomper, and think that Genesis (seriously one of the best green cards ever for EDH) would be a far better inclusion. Hermit is like, 9 power worth of dudes for 5 mana. 4 tokens that can be easily clamped and stuff. Hermit is the bomb. (also if you don't pay echo costs, you sacrifice! the hermit! :D)
As for budget mana fixing, there's golgari signet and coldsteel heart that could replace those guys. instead of the minimal thinning effect, you get acceleration. I think acceleration is important.
As for the Butcher, while I like him in the deck, I would run grave pact over him, because pact comes down earlier and is harder to remove. However, I would try and run both, because redundancy is really good in a singleton format.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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I also really like Buried Alive, works really well with Genesis.
Also I'm confused about your decision of Sprout Swarm over Worm Harvest, I find Dredge give me enough lands in the 'yard to make it worthwhile, and the Worm tokens and B/G which means they trigger Savra while the Saprolings don't at all.
Life from the Loam will let you keep using Worm Harvest, and it works great with lands like Tectonic Edge
Out: Dread Return, Golgari Rotwurm
In: Victimize, Nim Devourer
Looking forward to abusing the devourer's ability - just pay and sac itself, pay and sac itself - multiple times in one upkeep.
I can't believe I've spaced on this card for so long - I used to run it in my dragon reanimator for years (sac Bladewing's Thrall, get two dragons and the thrall back). It's in in place of Dread Return.
I only have a couple copies of Buried Alive, and they're in another deck. I also traded away my only Genesis. I know they're great cards, but the deck does alright without. I would recommend them both for anyone building the deck with a bigger budget than I have. Buried Alive, fetching Genesis, Nim Devourer, Grave-Shell Scarab, and/or Shambling Shell would give you all sorts of nasty stuff to play around Savra.
With my current build, I feel that Sprout Swarm is the better card. If I had more fetch lands/Stripmine/DustBowl/TectonicEdge/etc in it, Worm Harvest might be better. However, I usually only have one land in the graveyard anyway, except for when I've been dredging, and if I've been dredging, I usually already have the game. I realize that Worm Harvest produces black/green tokens instead of just green, but with the additions of Grave Pact and Butcher of Malakir, that becomes less relevant. At which point, I choose instant speed with convoke over a fixed-cost sorcery that also strips lands from my hand. And this doesn't even consider that there will be times when I could pay 5 and get nothing because there are no land in my graveyard (either none went in, or someone removed them).
Without regard to budget, running fetch lands and Life from the Loam would certainly make Worm Harvest a much more powerful card.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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Miren the Moaning well
Plunge into darkness
Rite of Consumption
Starved Rusalka
Diamond Valley - $75?! I haven't put that much into the entire deck. Cool card, but never gonna happen.
Miren the Moaning well - In there since the very first build, listed as a Sac Outlet.
Plunge into darkness - Interesting card. I may have to try it out. I like sorta-tutoring, but I don't like having to exile the cards I don't choose (what if I really want two or more of them? They're gone forever). We'll see.
Rite of Consumption - I like the card in a Quillspike deck, but the damage/lifegain would be pretty minimal in this deck, leaving it as a 2 mana sac outlet. I had considered it before, but I never felt it was good enough. Most of my sac outlets are either creatures themselves, or they do something else, like produce mana, mess up my opponent's mana, reanimate, or force my opponents to sac regardless of whether my general is out or not.
Starved Rusalka - I don't currently feel like I need more lifegain. I have 8 cards that can gain life besides sacing a green creature with Savra out, and I am now less reliant on having to pay life, thanks to Butcher of Malakir and Grave Pact.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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Don't cut the Puppeteer Clique, because it gives you graveyard hate, card advantage, and a great recursion target. Also, I like Sprout Swarm for the ability to either use excess mana before your turn, or to quickly build your army to sac all at once.
Cuts:
Briarhorn: Even for a instant speed sac and save, it just doesn't cut it for what else you could be doing.
Sarpadian Empires, Vol. VII: I know you're short on Black token makers, but this is just so slow and clunky
Cabal Archon: Again, slow and inefficient. If you're going to keep it, I recommend adding Rotlung Reanimator, which has synergy and gives you a black token when you sack it.
For additional card suggestions:
Carrion: Black tokens, instant, and sac outlet. Useful against the rare targeted removal. What more could you ask for?
Grim Feast: Helps offset Savra & synergistic
Garruk Wildspeaker: Non-budget. Tokens, Overrun, and Accel in a tight little package
Mind Slash: More Nath fun, Anti-Combo & Anti-Control
Maelstrom Pulse: Non-budget, but the versatility is almost unmatched, and takes care of opposing token decks, which can be annoying if they are making more than you can kill.
Primal Command: Tutor and Life gain are the big draws here, grave hate is always good, and the bounce can get you out of tight spots against enchantment and artifact decks.
Terastodon: Almost a auto-include, because you can spread out the targets, then just kill the elephants they received.
Deathrender: With Deadwood Treefolk, Eternal Witness, a free sac outlet and one other creature, you got an infinite combo for whatever that other is. And I don't think anyone will be upset at you for a 5 card combo that involves creatures, artifacts, and the graveyard.
Ooze Garden: As the only deck ever that this card could ever be good in, I have to add it to the list.
Verdeloth the Ancient: Tokens!
Wolfbriar Elemental: More Tokens!
Land Suggestions: I know you're on a budget, but lands are a great way to generate card advantage with minimum risk just by replacing basic lands.
Bojuka Bog: Additional graveyard hate
Leechridden Swamp: Not great, but useful. Kills off that guy who stabilized at 1 or 2 life behind a giant army.
Mosswort Bridge: Really easy to activate once your tokens get going, and its good CA
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood: You might be making lots of tokens, and you'll want to beat down with them sometime. Politically useful on occasion.
Polluted Mire: Cycling on lands is good
Tectonic Edge: There will be lands you'll want to kill on their turn, not waiting for your sorcery speed answer
Verdant Catacombs: Obvious and non-budget, but if you got one, why not?