I see that you too are running kuon, honestly I run him but only until I replace him with something else, unlike braids he only hits creatures and once you have your sac engine on board and thinks like butcher of malakir or gravepact he becomes rather useless honestly, and if they wipe your board except for shirei and the enchant version of him you are in trouble. I'd replace that first
Seems like a good deck list I see cards that I've thought about running and they didn't make my list such as Meekstone. You seem to be running a lot more recursion why is that? I tend not to because I'm mostly all about Shirei although they can add protection I suppose. I run more creatures too so I don't think you are in trouble there.
There is a package I run with man lands and you already run Dust Bowl & Inkmoth Nexus so you may want to:
once you have your sac engine on board and thinks like butcher of malakir or gravepact he becomes rather useless honestly, and if they wipe your board except for shirei and the enchant version of him you are in trouble.
I don't think Kuon is as bad as you make him seem. He would be put to the graveyard after most board wipes. He is a tad slow but he does give you a little more control and makes people think twice about killing. His flip side is a one sided Sheoldred and enchantments are much harder to remove in EDH than creatures. As for it hurting Shirei I don't think there has ever been a time where I have only had Shirei or Shirei and his flip on the board and there are plenty of other ways around that. It would need to be a very early game to not be able to replay Shirei and not another creature of some sort.
I'm sure he can easily be replaced but I don't think he's that bad.
I guess he is one sided with shirei, but without shirei he seems to suffer a bit, I like him flavor wise, and I do like control but if I were to run something I would choose braids (which I do) and he does have braids, and he runs smokestack (which I would put in over the kuon any day) I like kuon but I don't feel stax is as strong here at least kuon, I would prefer magus of the abyss I believe as well, maybe, he seems strong while not an enchant he is recurable.
I use to run Smokestack and braids butt I chose to take them out recently for some new cards they are pretty risky. Most of the time I had them I would never be in a position comfortable enough to play them. the only downside to Magus is the nonartifact where as Kuon can get anything they choose.
But kuon is like braids is it not, it kills your stuff too? I'm confused at why you feel they are more risky?
oh and can I suggest Insidious Dreams I know it seems sub par but I've never been upset to draw this card, with all the card draw it is just great and I've set up the next few draws on my deck so I could ensure victory before in a way that a 1for 1 tutor cannot. I like it a lot honestly want a foil >_>
But kuon is like braids is it not...oh and can I suggest Insidious Dreams
Kuon is similar to Braids it's one less and plays a slightly different political game because it needs to flip. Kuon could be seeing its way off my list soon. Insidious Dreams seems like a crazy good card what do you typically tutor up and stack?
Depends, I can tutor up and entire sac engine, and get the cards going for that, you can tutor draw and then X cards then draw them immediately. In one game I needed something to stop slobad's indestructable army and was facing down a blightsteel, I tutored up a sac outlet and grave pact, had my automaton which I used to draw both and play them making him sac his whole board, I won shortly there after. It gets any combinations of things, from answers to engines, and it allows you to discard if you have anything you would like to be in the grave anyway. I don't think I have much along those lines but I'm sure I could come up with something.
I think one of the strongest points of Dreams is the fact that you don't have to "typically tutor up" stuff, you can grab anything you need at any time, sometimes you need an answer right away, great a 1for1 tutor can do that, but can it also grab you a wincon so you win as well on the next turn (or same turn) it just allows you to be really reflexive on your plays. Also it's a cheap tutor($$) which is always nice.
Kuon could be replaced. I like how he's tested so far, but I think I have a lot of creature control and he'd only be hurting me at some point if I that control is successful.
Insidious Dreams is GREAT! No matter what deck you're playing, there are always cards in your hand you don't need at THAT moment. Finding what you want at instant speed is great! It's going in to replace Kuon! Thanks for the suggestion.
As for the amount of recursion in the deck... I wanted to not be 100% reliant on Shirei and be able to bring him back from the graveyard if I wanted to (so I don't have to increase his mana cost). What are some ways to protect him more without running more recursion?
I didn't know Recurring Nightmare was banned in EDH. Thanks for noticing that! It's out of my maybe board.
How about Cauldron of Souls in place of [CARD]Undying Evil
[/CARD]?
What do you think about Black Sun's Zenith + Necroskitter combo? Unfortunately, It'll get rid of Shirei, but it could set up some good board position for my next turn and ruin my opponents. Especially in multiplayer.
noetic scales is awesome!!! I'm gonna probably have to get one of those!
I just realized we have an infinite mana combo
have Phyrexian Altar + Ashnod's Alter + Reassembling Skeleton + Genesis chamber
I know it's a lot of pieces but I don't like running infinites much so I like having harder to get ones when I do, it just occured to me about this though. All you need is B to start it going
I made a major overhaul to my version of the deck.
I tried to really think about what I was doing with this deck and took out most of the Stax package that I had in there. Check out the final result... I just ordered the cards
You know if you have a competitive play group you might as well run rings monolith since you have a few X spells, and increasing ambition can grab rings, monolith, exsanguinate, off of one card same with insidious dreams, though slower, if you decide to do that I see pilgrim's eye and coffin queen coming out.
I personally try to stay away from the only on your turn cards except for Hypnotist and Hell's Caretaker. They are fine cards. I also dislike non-free sac outlets and try not to have to many of them. There are enough discard when goes to the graveyard or comes into play guys that for me those and Hypnotist are enough. The Bone-Reader is ok though if it doesn't impede too much. The Bells seem dangerous and a dead draw without Urborg but I can see their merit.
I don't want to let this die :/ and yeah I immediately replaced blood cultist in my list with blood artist and it's been amazing, he's also great wrath protection! I once had a player drop avenger and kikijiki off a tooth and nail copy avenger and have 40+ tokens he passed turn and I dropped blood artist and damnation, he was one dead player, I have yet to draw harvester but I'm sure he'll be amazing
I know this is old news but I enjoy when people laugh as I play Jar of Eyeballs. That quickly changes as I start impulse most or all of my deck and stack it for insane scroll racks or draws each turn.
I've been fishbowling and they play really well in my deck. Blood Artist is a superstar in this deck! Whoever plays a board wipe will be getting the blunt of the damage.
What do you guys think about Cauldron of Souls? If you have a full board of creatures, someone board wipes, then you tap COS and Shirei comes back and so does every other creature you own regardless of p/t. Some go right back to the yard but come back at end of turn as normal. It gives some great board position.
I also really love Necropotence + Possessed Portal. You still get the draw and the board is locked if guys don't have an answer. This would work really well with a discard subtheme a few of the minions have if you decided to run it.
I looked at possessed portal and I want to run it but 8 mana is so steep :/ Also I need a necropotense (I want the deckmasters one so I'm waiting on a friend to trade that) but yeah it seems good.
As for cauldron, I'm not sure there are enough abuses for it to be worth it, though recuring any 2/x creatures as 1/x creatures then allowing them to be recured by shirei is a cool prospect I'll look into it.
Terribly sorry about that. It's now all and good. I found the problem.
Thanks for the heads up about that!
oh and recurring nightmare is banned in edh
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
There is a package I run with man lands and you already run Dust Bowl & Inkmoth Nexus so you may want to:
Lake of the Dead
Blinkmoth Nexus
Spawning Pool
With Shirei online you can sac your man lands to blow up lands with DB or even dark ritual with LOTD (With Urborg).
If you were to ask me what your weakest card is id say Undying Evil it's good but not great, one time use.
I don't think Kuon is as bad as you make him seem. He would be put to the graveyard after most board wipes. He is a tad slow but he does give you a little more control and makes people think twice about killing. His flip side is a one sided Sheoldred and enchantments are much harder to remove in EDH than creatures. As for it hurting Shirei I don't think there has ever been a time where I have only had Shirei or Shirei and his flip on the board and there are plenty of other ways around that. It would need to be a very early game to not be able to replay Shirei and not another creature of some sort.
I'm sure he can easily be replaced but I don't think he's that bad.
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
I use to run Smokestack and braids butt I chose to take them out recently for some new cards they are pretty risky. Most of the time I had them I would never be in a position comfortable enough to play them. the only downside to Magus is the nonartifact where as Kuon can get anything they choose.
oh and can I suggest Insidious Dreams I know it seems sub par but I've never been upset to draw this card, with all the card draw it is just great and I've set up the next few draws on my deck so I could ensure victory before in a way that a 1for 1 tutor cannot. I like it a lot honestly want a foil >_>
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Kuon is similar to Braids it's one less and plays a slightly different political game because it needs to flip. Kuon could be seeing its way off my list soon. Insidious Dreams seems like a crazy good card what do you typically tutor up and stack?
I think one of the strongest points of Dreams is the fact that you don't have to "typically tutor up" stuff, you can grab anything you need at any time, sometimes you need an answer right away, great a 1for1 tutor can do that, but can it also grab you a wincon so you win as well on the next turn (or same turn) it just allows you to be really reflexive on your plays. Also it's a cheap tutor($$) which is always nice.
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Insidious Dreams is GREAT! No matter what deck you're playing, there are always cards in your hand you don't need at THAT moment. Finding what you want at instant speed is great! It's going in to replace Kuon! Thanks for the suggestion.
As for the amount of recursion in the deck... I wanted to not be 100% reliant on Shirei and be able to bring him back from the graveyard if I wanted to (so I don't have to increase his mana cost). What are some ways to protect him more without running more recursion?
I didn't know Recurring Nightmare was banned in EDH. Thanks for noticing that! It's out of my maybe board.
I'm also adding Noetic Scales for more stax fun!
How about Cauldron of Souls in place of [CARD]Undying Evil
[/CARD]?
What do you think about Black Sun's Zenith + Necroskitter combo? Unfortunately, It'll get rid of Shirei, but it could set up some good board position for my next turn and ruin my opponents. Especially in multiplayer.
Changes:
+Noetic Scales
- Kuon, Ogre Ascendant
-Expedition Map
I just realized we have an infinite mana combo
have Phyrexian Altar + Ashnod's Alter + Reassembling Skeleton + Genesis chamber
I know it's a lot of pieces but I don't like running infinites much so I like having harder to get ones when I do, it just occured to me about this though. All you need is B to start it going
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
I have absolutely no other ways I could possibly fix this.
I also love you heterosexually.
My Decks:
:symr::symr::symr: Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker :symr::symr::symr:
:symb::symb::symb: Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker :symb::symb::symb:
I want all Taiwan APAC swamps for my deck, sadly no one is trading them and I don't have cash to apac my manabase
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
I tried to really think about what I was doing with this deck and took out most of the Stax package that I had in there. Check out the final result... I just ordered the cards
1 Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker
Various Utility Creatures (12)
1 Necroskitter
1 Thoughtpicker Witch
1 Apprentice Necromancer
1 Bottle Gnomes
1 Marsh Flitter
1 Cadaver Imp
1 Coffin Queen
1 Junk Diver
1 Plagued Rusalka
1 Guiltfeeder
1 Sorceress Queen
1 Karn, Silver Golem
Tutoring/Filter (10)
1 Citanul Flute
1 Jar of Eyeballs
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Increasing Ambition
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Liliana Vess
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Viscera Seer
Draw (5)
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Harvester of Souls
1 Mindless Automaton
1 Scarecrone
1 Sol Ring
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Black Market
1 Pilgrim's Eye
Shirei's Protection (4)
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Mask of Avacyn
1 Swiftfoot Boots
Lock/Control (9)
1 Meekstone
1 Helm of Possession
1 Possessed Portal
1 Contamination
1 Grave Pact
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Blood Artist
Sacrifice Outlets (4)
1 Attrition
1 Gate to Phyrexia
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Hell's Caretaker
Sweepers (3)
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Plague Wind
1 Oblivion Stone
Spot Removal (3)
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Bone Shredder
1 Kiku, Night's Flower
1 Profane Command
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Exsanguinate
1 Lightning Coils
1 Genesis Chamber
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Cauldron of Souls
Land (38)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Buried Ruin
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Deserted Temple
1 High Market
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vesuva
1 Volrath's Stronghold
25 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Dust Bowl
1 Scrying Sheets
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
I personally try to stay away from the only on your turn cards except for Hypnotist and Hell's Caretaker. They are fine cards. I also dislike non-free sac outlets and try not to have to many of them. There are enough discard when goes to the graveyard or comes into play guys that for me those and Hypnotist are enough. The Bone-Reader is ok though if it doesn't impede too much. The Bells seem dangerous and a dead draw without Urborg but I can see their merit.
My Articles on CommanderCast
My Alters
Generals:
Arcum Dagsson, Asmira, Holy Avenger, Dakkon Blackblade, Doran, the Siege Tower, Hanna, Ship's Navigator, Horobi, Death's Wail , Konda, Lord of Eiganjo, Kresh the Bloodbraided, Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, Rhys, the Redeemed, Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker, Ulasht, the Hate Seed, Vorosh, the Hunter, Zur the Enchanter (Geratric Themed)
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
My Articles on CommanderCast
My Alters
Generals:
Arcum Dagsson, Asmira, Holy Avenger, Dakkon Blackblade, Doran, the Siege Tower, Hanna, Ship's Navigator, Horobi, Death's Wail , Konda, Lord of Eiganjo, Kresh the Bloodbraided, Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, Rhys, the Redeemed, Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker, Ulasht, the Hate Seed, Vorosh, the Hunter, Zur the Enchanter (Geratric Themed)
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
I've been fishbowling and they play really well in my deck. Blood Artist is a superstar in this deck! Whoever plays a board wipe will be getting the blunt of the damage.
What do you guys think about Cauldron of Souls? If you have a full board of creatures, someone board wipes, then you tap COS and Shirei comes back and so does every other creature you own regardless of p/t. Some go right back to the yard but come back at end of turn as normal. It gives some great board position.
I also really love Necropotence + Possessed Portal. You still get the draw and the board is locked if guys don't have an answer. This would work really well with a discard subtheme a few of the minions have if you decided to run it.
As for cauldron, I'm not sure there are enough abuses for it to be worth it, though recuring any 2/x creatures as 1/x creatures then allowing them to be recured by shirei is a cool prospect I'll look into it.
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Vicious Shadows
This card ruined in one game. Any idea on how to deal with it? Black is scarce for enchantment removal.