How do you play with a General you can't cast? Well, you can...but you'll lose...So get that Platinum Angel on the field and voila, problem solved! Or go the more dangerous Lich's Mirror route...cast Phage from the command zone, lose, but instead shuffle all your cards (including Phage!) into your library and start over...but now with Phage in your library, ready to be searched and cast!
Another possibility is Abyssal Persecutor. With Endless Whispers on the battlefield, let Persy die and an opponent gain control of him. Now it's JUST like a Platinum Angel on your side (well...aside from the fact you don't have a 4/4 flyer and your opponent does have a 6/6 flying trampler...but that's not so important :p).
The rest of the deck is making sure you live until this happens, and makes sure Phage stays on the field and won't be blocked.
I know, it's a weird deck and it probably will never work, but imagine the stories when you actually pull it off
If I missed a way to get Phage on the field, I'd love to hear!
forgive me if i'm wrong, but could'nt you use Death Wish as a way of getting Phage into your hand? or is that only under the old rules where generals were RFGd?
at the cost of half your life it is still far easier than any other strategy.
withering boon (which is in your deck), Thrull Wizard, Nether Void, can also get Phage into play. If you counter Phage then it never makes it to the battlefield and therefore Phage just goes to the graveyard (where you can get him back to your hand).
there is always the risk that someone will counter your counterspell and then you will lose the game but that is the same as someone having instant speed removal for platinum angel or Lich's mirror.
Either way, tutoring for a counterspell and then countering your own Phage seems like a viable option, even if you do have to get him back to your hand and play him again.
the abyssal persecutor combo is far too convoluted in my opinion, and when you do get Phage into play your opponent will have a bigger creature than you...
The other thing to do is to get a mate who is playing blue to counter or stifle Phage as you play him... and hope he doesn't leave you sitting there with a dumb look on your face.
forgive me if i'm wrong, but could'nt you use Death Wish as a way of getting Phage into your hand? or is that only under the old rules where generals were RFGd?
at the cost of half your life it is still far easier than any other strategy.
Thanks, but that doesn't work. Generals are in the Command Zone, which is a zone and therefor not "outside the game". It did indeed work when Generals where in the exile zone, but that's not anymore.
withering boon (which is in your deck), Thrull Wizard, Nether Void, can also get Phage into play. If you counter Phage then it never makes it to the battlefield and therefore Phage just goes to the graveyard (where you can get him back to your hand).
there is always the risk that someone will counter your counterspell and then you will lose the game but that is the same as someone having instant speed removal for platinum angel or Lich's mirror.
Either way, tutoring for a counterspell and then countering your own Phage seems like a viable option, even if you do have to get him back to your hand and play him again.
the abyssal persecutor combo is far too convoluted in my opinion, and when you do get Phage into play your opponent will have a bigger creature than you...
The other thing to do is to get a mate who is playing blue to counter or stifle Phage as you play him... and hope he doesn't leave you sitting there with a dumb look on your face.
Wow, countering your own General to get it in the graveyard...brilliant! Thanks, I'll add it to the deck. Thanks!!
So if I were to say "you're a complete douchebag who has his head up his ass so far he's using his own eyeballs as glasses," you'd simply shrug it off?
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in a multiplayer game there would probably be one guy at least that would think it was funny to just kill you because they could, in any case why not just run one additional tutor so you can just grab one of the other counterspells?
Am I correct in thinking that Phage + Endless Whispers + a way to sacrifice/kill her repeatedly will outright win the game in a few turns? My logic: Sacrifice Phage, let her go to the grave, choose an opponent. When she comes into play, your opponent will die to her trigger and you will get control of Phage back, since you're the owner. Repeat for each other opponent.
Sad news, Null Brooch says "noncreature" so it won't counter Phage...
Oh, what a shame! I overlooked that Luckily black has soooo many other options to counter stuff...:p Well, I'll replace it with Nirkana Revenant, just to be able to cast Her Majesty sooner
Am I correct in thinking that Phage + Endless Whispers + a way to sacrifice/kill her repeatedly will outright win the game in a few turns? My logic: Sacrifice Phage, let her go to the grave, choose an opponent. When she comes into play, your opponent will die to her trigger and you will get control of Phage back, since you're the owner. Repeat for each other opponent.
That is exactly how it works, except for the last part. Phage doesn't come under your control, she will just go to the graveyard and won't come out again.
Oh, what a shame! I overlooked that Luckily black has soooo many other options to counter stuff...:p Well, I'll replace it with Nirkana Revenant, just to be able to cast Her Majesty sooner
That is exactly how it works, except for the last part. Phage doesn't come under your control, she will just go to the graveyard and won't come out again.
I thought you gained control of all permanents you own controlled by a player that loses the game, and if you lose the game, all of your cards currently controlled by other players are exiled so you can leave to go get a sandwich. That's how we've always played it in Oregon.
Love your deck by the way. You have brass balls for even attempting this.
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I thought you gained control of all permanents you own controlled by a player that loses the game, and if you lose the game, all of your cards currently controlled by other players are exiled so you can leave to go get a sandwich. That's how we've always played it in Oregon.
It does, but only because all "control effects" end. So if you controlled a creature and your opponent Dominated it, your opponents control effect ends and you get your creature back. Once that's done, all remaining permanents are exiled. But in this case, you never controlled Phage! It came on the battlefield under the control of your opponent. So he doesn't have to give it back, because you didn't control it in the first place. You only owned it. That's why she gets exiled
That's incredibly counter intuitive. In fact, I bet I could say exactly that to almost every multi-player group I know and no one would believe me. Any insight on the logic behind this bizarre ruling?
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Something, something, something COMPLETE!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
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That's incredibly counter intuitive. In fact, I bet I could say exactly that to almost every multi-player group I know and no one would believe me. Any insight on the logic behind this bizarre ruling?
oh, idk, i think it makes sense. imagine someone disenchanted a control magic - of course you'd get back the creature. and when someone dies, all the stuff they own dies with them, so the control magic dies first, and then your creature returns to your control as though it were disenchanted. of course, if your opponent used dominate you would not get it back.
I'm guessing that everything they own gets exiled first, then everything that's still under their control gets exiled? is that the way it works?
ok, maybe that is a little counter intuitive.
out of curiosity, where is this stuff in the comp rulebook?
I'm guessing that everything they own gets exiled first, then everything that's still under their control gets exiled? is that the way it works?
ok, maybe that is a little counter intuitive.
out of curiosity, where is this stuff in the comp rulebook?
Not exactly, but close Here is how it's written in the CompRules. The bolded part is what we are talking about:
800.4a. When a player leaves the game, all objects (see rule 109) owned by that player leave the game, all spells and abilities controlled by that player on the stack cease to exist, and any effects which give that player control of any objects or players end. Then, if there are any objects still controlled by that player, those objects are exiled. This is not a state-based action. It happens as soon as the player leaves the game. If the player who left the game had priority at the time he or she left, priority passes to the next player in turn order who's still in the game.
Example: Alex casts Control Magic, an Aura that reads, "You control enchanted creature," on Bianca's Wall of Wood. If Alex leaves the game, so does Control Magic, and Wall of Wood reverts to Bianca's control. If, instead, Bianca leaves the game, so does Wall of Wood, and Control Magic is put into Alex's graveyard.
Example: Alex casts Threaten, which reads, in part, "Untap target creature and gain control of it until end of turn," targeting Bianca's Wall of Wood. If Alex leaves the game, Threaten's change-of-control effect ends and Wall of Wood reverts to Bianca's control.
Example: Alex casts Bribery, which reads, "Search target opponent's library for a creature card and put that card onto the battlefield under your control. Then that player shuffles his or her library," targeting Bianca. Alex puts Wall of Wood onto the battlefield from Bianca's library. If Bianca leaves the game, Wall of Wood also leaves the game. If, instead, Alex leaves the game, Wall of Wood is exiled.
Example: Alex controls Genesis Chamber, which reads, "Whenever a nontoken creature enters the battlefield, if Genesis Chamber is untapped, that creature's controller puts a 1/1 colorless Myr artifact creature token onto the battlefield." If Alex leaves the game, all such Myr tokens that entered the battlefield under Alex's control leave the game, and all such Myr tokens that entered the battlefield under any other player's control remain in the game.
Okay. So Phage the Untouchable goes into the graveyard because you sacrifice her to a miren, the moaning well and have Endless Whispers put her into the battlefield on Bob's side at the end of turn step. Then Phage gets mad she wasn't actually cast and triggers. When the trigger resolves, Bob is dead. Then Bob must leave the game so Phage is exiled (or alternately put in the command zone in this case) because Endless Whispers is a "put" effect not a "gain control of" effect? Or is it because Phage is an object owned by another player (in this case, you )?
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Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
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Something, something, something COMPLETE!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw: SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
Okay. So Phage the Untouchable goes into the graveyard because you sacrifice it to a miren, the moaning well and have Endless Whispers put her into the battlefield on bobs side at the end of turn step. Then Phage gets mad she wasn't actually cast and triggers. When the trigger resolves, Bob is dead. Then Bob must leave the game so Phage is exiled (or alternately put in the command zone in this case) because Endless Whispers is a "put" effect not a "gain control of" effect?
Yes! So what you need to do is let her ability trigger, then destroy her so she's in your graveyard when your opponent loses. Of course, he can say "I concede" and then she ends up exiled anyway...
I am actually in the midsts of building this deck.
I opened a Foil, Sundial of the Infinite and badly wanted to break it by putting the lose trigger on the stack after playing phage and ending my turn.
Anymore updates to this deck? Have you played it at all to see how the interactions work and what not? My playgroup is entirely casual as hell and I would enjoy piloting a deck like this to promote the silliness that EDH brings to the store.
Another possibility is Abyssal Persecutor. With Endless Whispers on the battlefield, let Persy die and an opponent gain control of him. Now it's JUST like a Platinum Angel on your side (well...aside from the fact you don't have a 4/4 flyer and your opponent does have a 6/6 flying trampler...but that's not so important :p).
The rest of the deck is making sure you live until this happens, and makes sure Phage stays on the field and won't be blocked.
I know, it's a weird deck and it probably will never work, but imagine the stories when you actually pull it off
If I missed a way to get Phage on the field, I'd love to hear!
1 Phage the Untouchable
"I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me?"
1 Platinum Angel
1 Lich's Mirror
1 Abyssal Persecutor
1 Endless Whispers
1 Avarice Totem
1 Gauntlets of Chaos
CounterPhage
1 Thrull Wizard
1 Nether Void
1 Dash Hopes
1 Withering Boon
1 Sundial of the Infinite
"I'm the invisible man"
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Sewers of Estark
1 Trailblazer's Boots
1 Dirge of Dread
1 Dragon Shadow
1 Profane Command
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Helm of Kaldra
1 Obsidian Battle-Axe
"You're the one that I want"
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Brainspoil
1 Demonic Collusion
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Doomsday
1 Liliana Vess
1 Netherborn Phalanx
1 Maralen of the Mornsong
1 Night Dealings
1 Plague Sliver
1 Reiver Demon
1 Damnation
1 Decree of Pain
1 Visara the Dreadful
1 Tombstalker
1 Koskun Falls
1 Slithering Shade
1 Wall of Souls
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Oblivion Stone
1 No Mercy
1 Wave of Terror
1 Forced March
1 Call to the Grave
1 Undead Warchief
1 Zombie Master
"Can't touch this"
1 Deathgrip
1 Ring of Immortals
1 Stromgald Cabal
1 Nirkana Revenant
"It's the time of my life"
1 Magistrate's Scepter
1 Energy Chamber
1 Coretapper
1 Temporal Extortion
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Contamination
1 Expedition Map
1 Caged Sun
"Country Road, take me home"
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
32 Snow-Covered Swamp
Casual Commander player.
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why not just use a different general and then she is already in your deck?
btw this is quite funny as I mentioned an edh deck in another forum, and then stated how crazy i was.
I'm not really sure what you mean...
Anyway, this is just a nice academic exercise to see how to build the best deck with a 'difficult' General
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at the cost of half your life it is still far easier than any other strategy.
there is always the risk that someone will counter your counterspell and then you will lose the game but that is the same as someone having instant speed removal for platinum angel or Lich's mirror.
Either way, tutoring for a counterspell and then countering your own Phage seems like a viable option, even if you do have to get him back to your hand and play him again.
the abyssal persecutor combo is far too convoluted in my opinion, and when you do get Phage into play your opponent will have a bigger creature than you...
The other thing to do is to get a mate who is playing blue to counter or stifle Phage as you play him... and hope he doesn't leave you sitting there with a dumb look on your face.
Wow, countering your own General to get it in the graveyard...brilliant! Thanks, I'll add it to the deck. Thanks!!
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Already in the deck
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and what, hope that no other player decides to pay five life so that you LOSE THE GAME? uh, no thanks...
But it's still useful, and maybe you can persuade them to not pay the life just to see the deck in action
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List of all the tutors available
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Tutor
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Oh, what a shame! I overlooked that Luckily black has soooo many other options to counter stuff...:p Well, I'll replace it with Nirkana Revenant, just to be able to cast Her Majesty sooner
That is exactly how it works, except for the last part. Phage doesn't come under your control, she will just go to the graveyard and won't come out again.
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I thought you gained control of all permanents you own controlled by a player that loses the game, and if you lose the game, all of your cards currently controlled by other players are exiled so you can leave to go get a sandwich. That's how we've always played it in Oregon.
Love your deck by the way. You have brass balls for even attempting this.
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw:
SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
It does, but only because all "control effects" end. So if you controlled a creature and your opponent Dominated it, your opponents control effect ends and you get your creature back. Once that's done, all remaining permanents are exiled. But in this case, you never controlled Phage! It came on the battlefield under the control of your opponent. So he doesn't have to give it back, because you didn't control it in the first place. You only owned it. That's why she gets exiled
Casual Commander player.
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Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw:
SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
oh, idk, i think it makes sense. imagine someone disenchanted a control magic - of course you'd get back the creature. and when someone dies, all the stuff they own dies with them, so the control magic dies first, and then your creature returns to your control as though it were disenchanted. of course, if your opponent used dominate you would not get it back.
I'm guessing that everything they own gets exiled first, then everything that's still under their control gets exiled? is that the way it works?
ok, maybe that is a little counter intuitive.
out of curiosity, where is this stuff in the comp rulebook?
WUB Merieke Ri Berit BUW
GWU Phelddagrif 1 2 3 4 UWG
BR Kaervek the Merciless RB
B Chainer, Dementia Master B
WUB Sen Triplets BUW
BG Sisters of Stone Death GB
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon GRBUW
GWU Angus Mackenzie UWG
R Kumano, Master Yamabushi R
WB Teysa BW
U Higure U
B Geth B
WUBRG Child of Alara 1 2GRBUW
R Zirilan R
U Arcum U
UR Nin RU
BRG Sek'Kuar GRB
U Teferi U
G Melira G
GU Edric UG
BG Glissa GB
Casual
GUB Knacksaw Clique BUG
RWU Sunforger UWR
Not exactly, but close Here is how it's written in the CompRules. The bolded part is what we are talking about:
Casual Commander player.
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Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw:
SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
Yes! So what you need to do is let her ability trigger, then destroy her so she's in your graveyard when your opponent loses. Of course, he can say "I concede" and then she ends up exiled anyway...
Casual Commander player.
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I opened a Foil, Sundial of the Infinite and badly wanted to break it by putting the lose trigger on the stack after playing phage and ending my turn.
Anymore updates to this deck? Have you played it at all to see how the interactions work and what not? My playgroup is entirely casual as hell and I would enjoy piloting a deck like this to promote the silliness that EDH brings to the store.
Casual Commander player.
Check this Magic Shop to buy singles and cards online in Europe!