I personally don't think that your zombie package in going to help much, I'm gonna make room for a bit more dredge a la golgari thug and maybe darkblast/Stink Weed Imp so I can fill up the yard a bit more for balthor
honestly I'd take the gravecrawler package out all-together, I personally think that nether traitor, bloodghast, squee are all the recursion you need, running bitterblossom helps too
aren't tutors the ultimate redundancy since they count as an extra copy of everything in your deck?
and I think other than mikey the other undying stuff isn't good enough for the deck, I prefer persist creatures anyway, better abilities since they come back weaker
A hidden gem for Endrek is Soul Exchange. It serves as a nice little revival card that also has some bonus flavor mixed in as well as giving a boost to the revived creature.
All three are great sac outlets and in the case of the first two help bring out some card draw, particularly with Endrek's tokens. Strands of night is another great card that I enjoy quite a bit in this kind of deck.
I'm currently building endrek and there's definitely a lack of good threads and lists compared to other generals. I tend to play decks for years, I really like endreks staying power and variability
I read the older comments, and flyer of hate bound stuck out?!?!?! Did this used to be a different general?
How about sadistic hypnotist? One of the strongest sacrifice outlets? Or rise of the dark realms?
I like it in my list, but for the purpose of generating infinite tokens. If you're going for a grindy approach, would you want to do a Contamination lock? I see you already have Bitterblossom, so including it would be fairly easy. I saw you shy away from Endless Cockroaches in part due to the infinite combo it created, so I don't know if this is meant to be for a more casual or competitive meta.
EDIT: Where do you draw the line on mean vs fair play?
I like it in my list, but for the purpose of generating infinite tokens. If you're going for a grindy approach, would you want to do a Contamination lock? I see you already have Bitterblossom, so including it would be fairly easy. I saw you shy away from Endless Cockroaches in part due to the infinite combo it created, so I don't know if this is meant to be for a more casual or competitive meta.
EDIT: Where do you draw the line on mean vs fair play?
There is a significant difference between slower opponents down (aka winter orb) and completely looking fools out the game (aka contamination). I think contamination is stronger than Iona significantly (especially in casual metas).
There is a significant difference between slower opponents down (aka winter orb) and completely looking fools out the game (aka contamination). I think contamination is stronger than Iona significantly (especially in casual metas).
Very true. I tend toward going in all or nothing, so I overshoot the middle ground sometimes.
The bottom line of all of this is that I usually ask myself 2 question:
- How would I feel if this was played against me?
- Does this essentially end the game (for someone) if it hits?
Negative answers on either ar bound to get the card cut.
I'm presuming Sadistic Hypnotist was cut because it can essentially end the game against more than one person (without actually ending the game) due to it being a repeatable effect? If that's the case, is something like Tar Fiend still too excessive, or more in line with the power level you've built in mind of?
Nim Deathmantle and Gray Merchant of Asphodel each generate value. In my experience, Gary is a strong effect, but not a back-breaking one. Have you tested either of them previously?
- Gary: Been thinking about adding him, but I think he might be too much of a win more card for when I have a big graveyard and mass reanimate. If you test him, please let me know how it goes.
I run Gary in my list. He's managed to win a couple of games, and has provided pivotal life swings and tempo changes in several more. Depending on when he lands, you can either outright win or can position yourself to do so reasonably quickly.
Do you use the mill that Altar of Dementia provides, or is it just 2 sac artifact to you? If it is the later you may want to try spawning pit. Turn those thrull's into something you can keep.
i see this thread hasn't had too many posts in the last year, but maybe this reply will liven things up. I was searching for a Mono B commander and after trying out a couple (drana tribal, drana ramp... thats about it) i found the Endrek deck ( it reminded me of an old nantuko husk combo deck I made many years ago that used carrion to sac one of my husks or ghouls to create like 16 tokens and then pop those over to the other guy for a huge swing, also the old combat stack made it really abuse-able) and it looks like a perfect fit. Anyway I like your mid-range competitive nature and I think it fits with EDH in general, that said my friends generally push things to the limits, playing turn 4 infinite combos, mld, and the infinitely annoying azami deck.... so if you were to try and make this thing as competitive as possible, what might you change?
at the moment i'm working on something of a budget, but just spitballing here to see whats possible. How broken can he get?
Hey, I haven't been able to play EDH a lot, so that's where the radio silence came from. The deck is still intact though, and my go-to whenever I play a game of EDH.
This version of the deck is indeed built to be super grindy and wins with incremental value. It holds its own in games of different power levels without feeling too oppressive in lower powered ones.
Contamination is one of the more brutal lock pieces I've come across in EDH. You can build the deck such that your early-game goal is to establish a fast Contamination. You could also consider Braids, Cabal Minion and/or Smokestack, Tangle Wire for even more of a Stax-like approach.
The deck has no real way of going infinite (I think), which means you have to work for your kills. Going infinite helps, although I'm not so sure about turn 4 infinite combos..
Hypnotist is great disruption against combo decks, as he's basically a 5 mana Mind Twist with Endrek out. Given enough time and other creatures, nobody will be able to keep cards in their hands. Mindslicer is less good because it needs a sac outlet and dumps your own hand as well, but it's cheap.
My version eschews tutors because I don't want the deck to be too consistent and I'd rather include many different fun cards. Adding at least Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor, and probably others as well, will help tremendously. They'll either find your Contamination, your infinite combo, your Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth/Cabal Coffers, etc etc.
Your general is a piece to many puzzles, but he costs 5 mana. Getting him out 2-3 turns earlier should be great for the deck.
Another option, by the way, is Carnival of Souls. I haven't done my research, but there should be something to do with that.
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I'm not sure how broken Endrek can get compared to other generals because I never built him that way. Mono black can be quite strong, so with at least the above additions you should be able to tangle with a higher powered meta.
I do actually have a storm deck with Endrek. It's not the most competetive, since I don't want to shell out for moxes and the like, but I do believe I had a turn 4 win once. Carnival of Souls does some serious work in my build, same with Dark Prophecy. The wincon is getting infinite storm/death triggers to fuel Blood Artist/Zulaport Cutthroat or Bitter Ordeal.
i see this thread hasn't had too many posts in the last year, but maybe this reply will liven things up. I was searching for a Mono B commander and after trying out a couple (drana tribal, drana ramp... thats about it) i found the Endrek deck ( it reminded me of an old nantuko husk combo deck I made many years ago that used carrion to sac one of my husks or ghouls to create like 16 tokens and then pop those over to the other guy for a huge swing, also the old combat stack made it really abuse-able) and it looks like a perfect fit. Anyway I like your mid-range competitive nature and I think it fits with EDH in general, that said my friends generally push things to the limits, playing turn 4 infinite combos, mld, and the infinitely annoying azami deck.... so if you were to try and make this thing as competitive as possible, what might you change?
at the moment i'm working on something of a budget, but just spitballing here to see whats possible. How broken can he get?
Endrek is very fun. His ability lets you build a huge board quickly. If you enjoy tokens and little triggers for each token then he's great. Even attacking with massive amounts of Thrulls is enjoyable.
But he's not very competitive. Let's say Endrek and Mikaeus are in your deck and you accidentally shuffle your general into your deck. Then hand the deck over to your friend for him to use. He doesn't know which one is the general so he looks through the deck and he pulls out Mikaeus. He will win more games than you did with Endrek.
Even if you built entirely around Endrek, Mikaues is just that much stronger.
Sounds pretty neat. Actually, Bitter Ordeal is one of those cards that I somehow never get around to trying out. Even without going infinite, the card should be pretty good in metagames where people rely on combo pieces or other oppressive cards.
Another awesome Mono-Black control card that you could run with that kind of effect is Sadistic Sacrament. It's awesome to pick up someone else's cards and just pick out the ones that they can't use anymore. Same with Nightmare Incursion. Jester's Cap effects are underused in EDH for sure.
i see this thread hasn't had too many posts in the last year, but maybe this reply will liven things up. I was searching for a Mono B commander and after trying out a couple (drana tribal, drana ramp... thats about it) i found the Endrek deck ( it reminded me of an old nantuko husk combo deck I made many years ago that used carrion to sac one of my husks or ghouls to create like 16 tokens and then pop those over to the other guy for a huge swing, also the old combat stack made it really abuse-able) and it looks like a perfect fit. Anyway I like your mid-range competitive nature and I think it fits with EDH in general, that said my friends generally push things to the limits, playing turn 4 infinite combos, mld, and the infinitely annoying azami deck.... so if you were to try and make this thing as competitive as possible, what might you change?
at the moment i'm working on something of a budget, but just spitballing here to see whats possible. How broken can he get?
Endrek is very fun. His ability lets you build a huge board quickly. If you enjoy tokens and little triggers for each token then he's great. Even attacking with massive amounts of Thrulls is enjoyable.
But he's not very competitive. Let's say Endrek and Mikaeus are in your deck and you accidentally shuffle your general into your deck. Then hand the deck over to your friend for him to use. He doesn't know which one is the general so he looks through the deck and he pulls out Mikaeus. He will win more games than you did with Endrek.
Even if you built entirely around Endrek, Mikaues is just that much stronger.
I get that, but I do really like Endrek, and if I were going to go tier 1( or 2) EDH i would definitely play sidisi (over mik). But just for argument sake, say we were building around a couple broken combos or mean cards that are specifically geared to endrek, could we make this deck more competitive without changing the commander? We have a bunch of fun lists, whats the harsh list look like, just for comparison.
here's my current decklist, not too mean all things considered.
Well, the thing is that it's not a "tier" thing. If it was, why even play mono black. It's that a built a deck for Endrek, completely around him and it still ended up working better with Mikaeus.
However, it is a fun thing and Endrek is definitely great at that.
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Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
and I think other than mikey the other undying stuff isn't good enough for the deck, I prefer persist creatures anyway, better abilities since they come back weaker
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
You cannot outrun the beast within.
All three are great sac outlets and in the case of the first two help bring out some card draw, particularly with Endrek's tokens. Strands of night is another great card that I enjoy quite a bit in this kind of deck.
You cannot outrun the beast within.
I read the older comments, and flyer of hate bound stuck out?!?!?! Did this used to be a different general?
How about sadistic hypnotist? One of the strongest sacrifice outlets? Or rise of the dark realms?
.
If you're going for a grindy approach, would you want to do a Contamination lock? I see you already have Bitterblossom, so including it would be fairly easy. I saw you shy away from Endless Cockroaches in part due to the infinite combo it created, so I don't know if this is meant to be for a more casual or competitive meta.EDIT: Where do you draw the line on mean vs fair play?
There is a significant difference between slower opponents down (aka winter orb) and completely looking fools out the game (aka contamination). I think contamination is stronger than Iona significantly (especially in casual metas).
Very true. I tend toward going in all or nothing, so I overshoot the middle ground sometimes.
I'm presuming Sadistic Hypnotist was cut because it can essentially end the game against more than one person (without actually ending the game) due to it being a repeatable effect? If that's the case, is something like Tar Fiend still too excessive, or more in line with the power level you've built in mind of?
Nim Deathmantle and Gray Merchant of Asphodel each generate value. In my experience, Gary is a strong effect, but not a back-breaking one. Have you tested either of them previously?
I run Gary in my list. He's managed to win a couple of games, and has provided pivotal life swings and tempo changes in several more. Depending on when he lands, you can either outright win or can position yourself to do so reasonably quickly.
Yep, works just fine. Sacrifice outlets seem more important than endrek himself.
Also mikaeus just seems like an even better general overall for the same. He was best card in my games over the weekend.
at the moment i'm working on something of a budget, but just spitballing here to see whats possible. How broken can he get?
I saw some time ago you mentioned legends that are sac outlets, but I didn't see anybody mention Yahenni, Undying Partisan.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
I do actually have a storm deck with Endrek. It's not the most competetive, since I don't want to shell out for moxes and the like, but I do believe I had a turn 4 win once. Carnival of Souls does some serious work in my build, same with Dark Prophecy. The wincon is getting infinite storm/death triggers to fuel Blood Artist/Zulaport Cutthroat or Bitter Ordeal.
Endrek is very fun. His ability lets you build a huge board quickly. If you enjoy tokens and little triggers for each token then he's great. Even attacking with massive amounts of Thrulls is enjoyable.
But he's not very competitive. Let's say Endrek and Mikaeus are in your deck and you accidentally shuffle your general into your deck. Then hand the deck over to your friend for him to use. He doesn't know which one is the general so he looks through the deck and he pulls out Mikaeus. He will win more games than you did with Endrek.
Even if you built entirely around Endrek, Mikaues is just that much stronger.
Another awesome Mono-Black control card that you could run with that kind of effect is Sadistic Sacrament. It's awesome to pick up someone else's cards and just pick out the ones that they can't use anymore. Same with Nightmare Incursion. Jester's Cap effects are underused in EDH for sure.
I get that, but I do really like Endrek, and if I were going to go tier 1( or 2) EDH i would definitely play sidisi (over mik). But just for argument sake, say we were building around a couple broken combos or mean cards that are specifically geared to endrek, could we make this deck more competitive without changing the commander? We have a bunch of fun lists, whats the harsh list look like, just for comparison.
here's my current decklist, not too mean all things considered.
// 5 Artifact
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Skullclamp
1 Jet Medallion
1 Sol Ring
1 Worn Powerstone
// 34 Creature
1 Viscera Seer
1 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
1 Smothering Abomination
1 Zulaport Cutthroat
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Gravecrawler
1 Endless Cockroaches
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Shriekmaw
1 Hell's Caretaker
1 Nantuko Husk
1 Dross Harvester
1 Phyrexian Plaguelord
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Blood Artist
1 Falkenrath Noble
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Bloodthrone Vampire
1 Balthor the Defiled
1 Undead Gladiator
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Bloodflow Connoisseur
1 Fallen Angel
1 Grim Haruspex
1 Relentless Dead
1 Initiates of the Ebon Hand
1 Corpse Connoisseur
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Magus of the Coffers
1 Corpse Harvester
1 Vampiric Rites
1 Dictate of Erebos
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Dark Prophecy
1 Attrition
1 Animate Dead
// 5 Instant
1 Tragic Slip
1 Dark Ritual
1 Altar's Reap
1 rescue from the underworld
1 Culling the Weak
1 Scour from Existence
// 37 Land
1 Westvale Abbey
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Barren Moor
33 Swamp
1 Rogue's Passage
// 1 Planeswalker
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
// 11 Sorcery
1 Eliminate the Competition
1 Dread Return
1 Ritual of the Machine
1 Victimize
1 Bubbling Muck
1 Mutilate
1 Barter in Blood
1 Profane Command
1 Living Death
1 Reanimate
1 Innocent Blood
However, it is a fun thing and Endrek is definitely great at that.