That is very true. I haven't really built the deck around utilizing Lazav, he is more of a bonus in general. I may need to consider that interaction though... It does work with Ruins as well.
I guess it also has the advantage of putting things you want in your opponents yard, which is useful sometimes for reanimation. And throwing an Eldrazi titan in there can empty their yard if you ever want that. But the main plus is the Lazav interaction. Lazav as Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre seems good.
I guess it also has the advantage of putting things you want in your opponents yard, which is useful sometimes for reanimation. And throwing an Eldrazi titan in there can empty their yard if you ever want that. But the main plus is the Lazav interaction. Lazav as Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre seems good.
Well, I do run a small reanimation suite of cards so yes that is another consideration. As I'm looking through the list and thinking on about it, maybe it's no worse than Knowledge Exploitation in terms of being slow (I will almost always be casting and cracking it in the same round). Well, it can't be worse than Nightveil so I'll test it out next week in that spot.
I also need to find myself a Steal Enchantment....
Someone at my LGS has an Oloro deck with a similar theme. I was playing against it and a Mishra, Artificer Prodigy deck the other night with my (non-infinite) Oona deck. I used Praetor's Grasp to steal the Mishra player's Mindslaver. Then the Oloro player stole my Oona with Take Possession. I ended up casting Praetor's Grasp on the Oloro player for Worst Fears but still lost because I missed the play of searching for a way to sac Oona in my library from my Praetor's Grasp cast by the controlled Oloro's player's Spelltwine. My head hurts just remembering that game.
TL;DR - Decks like these lead to complex interactions that reward/demand attention and creativity.
It almost hurts to see Dimir running without the cheap UB transmute tutors, Dimir Infiltrator, Drift of Phantasms, Dimir House Guard, amongst others. Being creatures, they're easy to recur in black, or you can go with Muddle the Mixture or Shred Memory and Dimir Machinations and recur them with Mnemonic Wall and such. Useful for finding those fast answers. You can even use a 2-drop transmute to tutor for your Diabolic Tutor and get anything from there.
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It almost hurts to see Dimir running without the cheap UB transmute tutors, Dimir Infiltrator, Drift of Phantasms, Dimir House Guard, amongst others. Being creatures, they're easy to recur in black, or you can go with Muddle the Mixture or Shred Memory and Dimir Machinations and recur them with Mnemonic Wall and such. Useful for finding those fast answers. You can even use a 2-drop transmute to tutor for your Diabolic Tutor and get anything from there.
2) Simple Mind Control effects are simply too low impact for this format. I run Treachery and Shackles in these types of slots (I will be adding Silumgar as well). "Just" stealing a creature simply isn't good enough a lot of the time.
3) At the end of the day, this is at heart a more casual deck. I am trying to only run a few tutors so I can have more room for fun things. In addition, many of the xmute cards are very poor on their own (outside of a competitive combo as fast as possible deck).
Mnemonic Wall was in a much older build of the deck, but came out when the instant/sorcery count dropped. I tend to always play very stack abusing decks and this is meant to give me an alternate playstyle while still feeling good to me.
Now some of you may be saying, "but wait Jiv Mirror Mirror is an Un-card and therefore banned". You would be correct. However, what kind of self-respecting Dimir mage would I be if I didn't run the only card in the game to quite literally Captain Ginyu the opponent. None that I want to deal with that's for sure.
But more seriously, I understand that Un-cards are wholly banned not due to power level or social concerns, but rather simply because they are:
a) On the vintage ban list and
b) Not worth the RC's time to evaluate on an individual basis to determine which ones are fair or unfair.
That being said, while I am a supporter for RAW (rules as written) I also have a lot of respect for RAI (rules as intended). I fully believe that certain Un-cards in certain decks add to what the intent of the format is. A card like Mirror Mirror is the ultimate flavor card for a deck like this in addition to being weaker than alternate 'similar' (I use this word VERY loosely) cards already in the deck.
Removal of cards that have not pulled any amount of weight for several months and countless games. Sire seems like a potentially interesting addition but it is no Conc Sphinx. Downfall and Yawgmoth's Will are powerful cards that should have been included long ago. My stance on not wanting to run black removal is simply inapplicable.
Slight land changes, still curious about how good the Blighted lands will be and if I should make room for the black one as well.
It has been a year full of interesting cards. Any updates for this deck, as I am planning to heavily copy it, and only want the best!
Cheers!
The deck has changed once again and I'll be updating it. With the release of Grenzo, Havoc Raiser I've wanted to test some of the red theft cards. So Marchesa is now the Commander and she fits quite well both thematically and mechanically. What's better than stealing/cloning your opponents toys? Being able to reset them and protect them.
If you want to discuss the Lazav list please feel free. I'm not making a new thread for Marchesa because I'd rather not split discussion for such similar lists. I'll try and remember the specific changes if you need for your deck.
That is very true. I haven't really built the deck around utilizing Lazav, he is more of a bonus in general. I may need to consider that interaction though... It does work with Ruins as well.
Well, I do run a small reanimation suite of cards so yes that is another consideration. As I'm looking through the list and thinking on about it, maybe it's no worse than Knowledge Exploitation in terms of being slow (I will almost always be casting and cracking it in the same round). Well, it can't be worse than Nightveil so I'll test it out next week in that spot.
I also need to find myself a Steal Enchantment....
TL;DR - Decks like these lead to complex interactions that reward/demand attention and creativity.
Rise From the Grave can simply snap any creature back to the battlefield from the graveyard, yours or your opponent's.
Good old Mind Control and Control Magic are useful in this strategy.
It almost hurts to see Dimir running without the cheap UB transmute tutors, Dimir Infiltrator, Drift of Phantasms, Dimir House Guard, amongst others. Being creatures, they're easy to recur in black, or you can go with Muddle the Mixture or Shred Memory and Dimir Machinations and recur them with Mnemonic Wall and such. Useful for finding those fast answers. You can even use a 2-drop transmute to tutor for your Diabolic Tutor and get anything from there.
1) I am running Animate Dead, Necromancy, Sepulchral Primordial, and Body Double as grave interaction. I prefer to utilize the most mana efficient options of cards.
2) Simple Mind Control effects are simply too low impact for this format. I run Treachery and Shackles in these types of slots (I will be adding Silumgar as well). "Just" stealing a creature simply isn't good enough a lot of the time.
3) At the end of the day, this is at heart a more casual deck. I am trying to only run a few tutors so I can have more room for fun things. In addition, many of the xmute cards are very poor on their own (outside of a competitive combo as fast as possible deck).
Mnemonic Wall was in a much older build of the deck, but came out when the instant/sorcery count dropped. I tend to always play very stack abusing decks and this is meant to give me an alternate playstyle while still feeling good to me.
- Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
- Promise of Power
- Wayfarer's Bauble
- Nightveil Specter
- Phyrexian Arena
+ Grinning Totem
+ Steal Enchantment
+ Chromatic Lantern
+ Supplant Form
And finally
+ Mirror Mirror
Now some of you may be saying, "but wait Jiv Mirror Mirror is an Un-card and therefore banned". You would be correct. However, what kind of self-respecting Dimir mage would I be if I didn't run the only card in the game to quite literally Captain Ginyu the opponent. None that I want to deal with that's for sure.
But more seriously, I understand that Un-cards are wholly banned not due to power level or social concerns, but rather simply because they are:
a) On the vintage ban list and
b) Not worth the RC's time to evaluate on an individual basis to determine which ones are fair or unfair.
That being said, while I am a supporter for RAW (rules as written) I also have a lot of respect for RAI (rules as intended). I fully believe that certain Un-cards in certain decks add to what the intent of the format is. A card like Mirror Mirror is the ultimate flavor card for a deck like this in addition to being weaker than alternate 'similar' (I use this word VERY loosely) cards already in the deck.
-Reliquary Tower
-Island
-Coalition Relic
-Havengul Lich
-Twincast
+Blighted Cataract
+Sunken Hollow
+Sire of Stagnation
+Yawgmoth's Will
+Hero's Downfall
Removal of cards that have not pulled any amount of weight for several months and countless games. Sire seems like a potentially interesting addition but it is no Conc Sphinx. Downfall and Yawgmoth's Will are powerful cards that should have been included long ago. My stance on not wanting to run black removal is simply inapplicable.
Slight land changes, still curious about how good the Blighted lands will be and if I should make room for the black one as well.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
The deck has changed once again and I'll be updating it. With the release of Grenzo, Havoc Raiser I've wanted to test some of the red theft cards. So Marchesa is now the Commander and she fits quite well both thematically and mechanically. What's better than stealing/cloning your opponents toys? Being able to reset them and protect them.
If you want to discuss the Lazav list please feel free. I'm not making a new thread for Marchesa because I'd rather not split discussion for such similar lists. I'll try and remember the specific changes if you need for your deck.
That spot is taken by the far superior dominus of fealty. It is recurrable and can choose different targets offering much more utility.