The current plan for changes to the deck includes Omniscience for hopefully obvious reasons, adding more noncreature hate, adding more creature hate, and taking the deck entirely creatureless, adding Torpor Orb. I may also drop the three artifacts I'm currently running and add in Null Rod, possibly Damping Matrix.
The big worry I have is that I don't have a whole lot of early deterrents to creature attacks. Propaganda, Wall of Blossoms, and Kher Keep are the precautions I'm taking right now, but I think that might not be enough and I could be better off just ignoring that and going full offense.
Comments and thoughts are welcome!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I'll look a bit more into it later, but I have to add (since it's now a recurring joke from me in the other Riku decks) that Manamorphose is free card draw in Riku. You put 4 mana and 1 card in, get 4 out and 2 cards. It seems like a very un-inspiring play, but is one of the most valuable cards for Riku I feel, as the cost of inclusion is non-existant.
I like the runechanter's pike, but some methods to connect with Riku could be quite strong, as your creatures package is quite light. Shadowrift is one of my favored options. Diviner's Wand may also be quite good, as Riku is a wizard and it will auto-equip.
Manamorphose might not be a bad call. I'm not sure I'm willing to give up a deck slot for something that essentially just cycles most of the time, but the synergy with Riku and Past in Flames might be worth it. If Riku was a lower profile target I'd be all over it, but he really doesn't survive.
I'm not adding anything else to connect with Riku. Pike is absolutely a last ditch effort and pretty much only gets used in conjunction with lands (Raging Ravine/Kessig Wolf Run) right now, and I'm not particularly eager to build around it. As much as I like your T&L list, I'm going for a bit of a different feel here - combat damage is probably not going to account for many wins, unless the creatures belonged to my opponent's before me.
Riptide Lab is one of my favorite lands, but it's pretty low on the list of colorless lands I want in here, especially because I don't think Snapcaster is sticking around. I run enough recursion that exiling is actually relevant. Holistic Wisdom gets a pass for being ridiculous and one of my favorite cards, but Snapcaster is less abusable here.
Thanks for checking out the list! I know it seems like I kind of ignored all your suggestions here, but I do appreciate you taking the time to respond.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
How do you actually win? As far as I can tell, you win through thefts and fireballs. Am I missing something?
I've been itching to rebuild riku showcasing the arcane melee. How has that worked out? Have you felt it more beneficial to your opponents? Is it going to be the cut for omniscience?
Since it seems you're doing big spells and you say it ramps like crazy, why no Banefire? With riku it can take out two players at once.
"Some of the other guys dared me to go out, but I knew it weren't no ordinary giant giga-blasting blaze of unending flames that would scorch the whole world."
—Norin the Wary
Manamorphose might not be a bad call. I'm not sure I'm willing to give up a deck slot for something that essentially just cycles most of the time, but the synergy with Riku and Past in Flames might be worth it. If Riku was a lower profile target I'd be all over it, but he really doesn't survive.
Riku is certainly a high-profile target, and if it was just a cycle, I'd agree with you. After all, no one runs mishra's and urza's baubles, despite being free replacements. I think this gets the nod though because it doesn't just replace itself. It actually gets you a free card. It's like casting divination for 0.
The way I think of it is such: Take the worst card of your deck. Manamorphose is one card better than that one.
It's really hard when you look at a list to include the manamorphose, since it always seems you can add a spell that actually does something, but really, the lowest values a manamorphose will ever have is to be the second worst card in your deck, which means you can always cut the worst card for it.
I'm not adding anything else to connect with Riku. Pike is absolutely a last ditch effort and pretty much only gets used in conjunction with lands (Raging Ravine/Kessig Wolf Run) right now, and I'm not particularly eager to build around it. As much as I like your T&L list, I'm going for a bit of a different feel here - combat damage is probably not going to account for many wins, unless the creatures belonged to my opponent's before me.
Fair enough, I just wanted to see if you'd considered other options. I happen to like the wizard relic a lot, as you'll be drawing anyways, it's a free equip, and it grants evasion. Plus, it's emergency draw option. Overall though, the pike is better for the last-ditch painful connect. The wand is more attrition based, along the lines of "well, riku's not doing much of anything anyways, might as well go sideways" mentality.
Riptide Lab is one of my favorite lands, but it's pretty low on the list of colorless lands I want in here, especially because I don't think Snapcaster is sticking around. I run enough recursion that exiling is actually relevant.
Fair enough, I usually find I don't keep enough mana untapped myself, though in your list it also works with Izzet Chronarch and also the new Archeomancer that will be coming out.
Holistic Wisdom gets a pass for being ridiculous and one of my favorite cards, but Snapcaster is less abusable here.
Wisdom is another of the cards that I tend to promote a lot, especially in Spell Riku builds. I was really happy to see someone else run it. It's absolutely amazing. Snappy can be hard to abuse, but in spell Riku lists it's mostly because the flash is less valuable. Riku likes to tap out when he casts something, so if you cast a sorcery, you're done for the round.
Have you considered adding Vedalken Orrery, Leyline of anticipation, and Alchemists Refuge? I think Flash enablers are criminally underrated in Riku. It also acts as pseudo-haste/protection with Riku, giving you a better chance to untap with Riku. Likewise, Seedborn Muse can help get untapped lands out with Riku, as well as being stupidly broken with Orrery and co.
Other protection options I have found to work well, besides Greaves/Boots, are: Elguarde Shieldmate, being able to copy it means you can protect Riku AND something else, like Muse, and Asceticism.
Thanks for checking out the list! I know it seems like I kind of ignored all your suggestions here, but I do appreciate you taking the time to respond.
Hah, I do that all the time, especially when a list is new, and I'm less sure where I want to take it. Eventually you'll find something that doesn't work out as well, make a cut, and find a replacement or test something new. All good.
===
With all that out of the way, and the nod towards my T&L list... With your instant/sorcery count and ratio in the deck, have you considered Spellweaver Volute as a way to steal opposing spells and to reuse some of your spells like Brainstorm, Beast Within, Frantic Search, Fact or Fiction, etc? It also works well with Reverberate and Twincast, allowing you to double up whatever sorcery you used to trigger it.
How do you actually win? As far as I can tell, you win through thefts and fireballs. Am I missing something?
I've been itching to rebuild riku showcasing the arcane melee. How has that worked out? Have you felt it more beneficial to your opponents? Is it going to be the cut for omniscience?
Since it seems you're doing big spells and you say it ramps like crazy, why no Banefire? With riku it can take out two players at once.
Nope, You've pretty much got it. Of the games I've played with this deck so far, it's won with Comet Storm once, Rolling Thunder once, and a twice-copied Eternal Dominion once (Mayael decks are wonderful - grabbed Avacyn, Sigarda, and Gisela. After they killed off Avacyn and Gisela, grabbed Craterhoof and Avenger). Blatant Thievery is always a possibility, but thus far it's only been used to steal my Mana Reflection back along with a couple lands so I could kill everyone.
Arcane Melee has been a champ. It's really only come down early enough to matter one time, but it did so much work that game. Even something simple like turning Harrow into fast mana is worthwhile, and it let me run through a ton of cards in a turn. I have yet to see the deck across the table that can abuse it as hard as this one. It's much more likely to be run alongside Omniscience, because they're both quite good in this deck.
Banefire was trumped by Rolling Thunder, which has the same player killing utility but can also take out a board of creatures or split damage between players, rather than massively overkilling someone. Can't be countered is nice, but I have counterspells of my own to protect it.
Riku is certainly a high-profile target, and if it was just a cycle, I'd agree with you. After all, no one runs mishra's and urza's baubles, despite being free replacements. I think this gets the nod though because it doesn't just replace itself. It actually gets you a free card. It's like casting divination for 0.
The way I think of it is such: Take the worst card of your deck. Manamorphose is one card better than that one.
It's really hard when you look at a list to include the manamorphose, since it always seems you can add a spell that actually does something, but really, the lowest values a manamorphose will ever have is to be the second worst card in your deck, which means you can always cut the worst card for it.
Fair enough, I just wanted to see if you'd considered other options. I happen to like the wizard relic a lot, as you'll be drawing anyways, it's a free equip, and it grants evasion. Plus, it's emergency draw option. Overall though, the pike is better for the last-ditch painful connect. The wand is more attrition based, along the lines of "well, riku's not doing much of anything anyways, might as well go sideways" mentality.
Fair enough, I usually find I don't keep enough mana untapped myself, though in your list it also works with Izzet Chronarch and also the new Archeomancer that will be coming out.
Wisdom is another of the cards that I tend to promote a lot, especially in Spell Riku builds. I was really happy to see someone else run it. It's absolutely amazing. Snappy can be hard to abuse, but in spell Riku lists it's mostly because the flash is less valuable. Riku likes to tap out when he casts something, so if you cast a sorcery, you're done for the round.
Have you considered adding Vedalken Orrery, Leyline of anticipation, and Alchemists Refuge? I think Flash enablers are criminally underrated in Riku. It also acts as pseudo-haste/protection with Riku, giving you a better chance to untap with Riku. Likewise, Seedborn Muse can help get untapped lands out with Riku, as well as being stupidly broken with Orrery and co.
Other protection options I have found to work well, besides Greaves/Boots, are: Elguarde Shieldmate, being able to copy it means you can protect Riku AND something else, like Muse, and Asceticism.
Hah, I do that all the time, especially when a list is new, and I'm less sure where I want to take it. Eventually you'll find something that doesn't work out as well, make a cut, and find a replacement or test something new. All good.
===
With all that out of the way, and the nod towards my T&L list... With your instant/sorcery count and ratio in the deck, have you considered Spellweaver Volute as a way to steal opposing spells and to reuse some of your spells like Brainstorm, Beast Within, Frantic Search, Fact or Fiction, etc? It also works well with Reverberate and Twincast, allowing you to double up whatever sorcery you used to trigger it.
The problem I have with Manamorphose is that it is just cycling when Riku isn't out. If I untap with Riku, I'm in a good enough position that the extra card, while nice, is probably not essential. If I don't have Riku out when I untap, which is most turns of most games, then Manamorphose just cycles. I'd rather run one of the various 1 or 2 cmc filtering cards and accept that I'll be down a single mana.
I'm in no hurry to add equipment or other cards that synergize with creatures because I'm already talking about pulling all of my creatures. Of the ones I currently have, Glen Elendra Archmage and Izzet Chronarch are the only ones likely to last through the week. Archaeomancermight make it in, but I'm more likely to grab Woodland Guidance or something instead, because this deck is designed to abuse spells rather than creatures. Seedborn is also unlikely to make it in for much the same reasons - if I decide I want that effect, it's going to be Awakening. The symmetry isn't that damaging when I can basically take a turn for everyone at the table.
Leyline is almost certainly going to make the cut, then I'll consider Orrery from there. I was planning on Leyline already, but I unloaded all of mine the last time I was clearing out bulk. Refuge has been remarkably good, but a lot of that has been the ease of tutoring for it. I'm not sure I want two more cards filling the same role, but I think one might be workable.
Volute is another one that I've been considering, but don't have in a binder anywhere. I like the idea behind it, but the initial 5 hurts. Definitely under consideration.
with a little sculpting of your creature base, guided passage could be pretty rad, guaranteeing at minimum a great creature among the 3 chosen cards.
My creature quality here isn't high enough for this to do me any favors, and I don't want to include some big, dumb beater so I have a target for a single card in the deck - odds are equally good that I'll draw the creature first, then I have a three mana, reveal my deck to target player, get a basic land and a Preordain sorcery, which is terrible. There are some decks where this isn't bad, but I'm pretty dedicated to my no worthwhile creatures theme.
Thanks to all for looking and for the input!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1 Riku of Two Reflections
//Creatures
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Wall of Blossoms
//Artifacts
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Sol Ring
//Enchantments
1 Arcane Melee
1 Holistic Wisdom
1 Mana Reflection
1 Mind Unbound
1 Propaganda
//Instants
1 Arcane Denial
1 Beast Within
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Brainstorm
1 Chaos Warp
1 Comet Storm
1 Crop Rotation
1 Evacuation
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Frantic Search
1 Harrow
1 Impulse
1 Intuition
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Reiterate
1 Reverberate
1 Starstorm
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Twincast
1 Voidslime
1 Wild Ricochet
1 All Suns' Dawn
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Cultivate
1 Eternal Dominion
1 Explore
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Farseek
1 Frenzied Tilling
1 Gamble
1 Hull Breach
1 Hunting Wilds
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Mystic Retrieval
1 Nature's Lore
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Past in Flames
1 Preordain
1 Reap and Sow
1 Recurring Insight
1 Regrowth
1 Restock
1 Rolling Thunder
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Three Visits
//Lands
1 Academy Ruins
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Breeding Pool
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Command Tower
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Flooded Grove
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Kher Keep
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Raging Ravine
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Taiga
1 Wooded Foothills
6 Forest
7 Island
5 Mountain
The big worry I have is that I don't have a whole lot of early deterrents to creature attacks. Propaganda, Wall of Blossoms, and Kher Keep are the precautions I'm taking right now, but I think that might not be enough and I could be better off just ignoring that and going full offense.
Comments and thoughts are welcome!
I like the runechanter's pike, but some methods to connect with Riku could be quite strong, as your creatures package is quite light. Shadowrift is one of my favored options. Diviner's Wand may also be quite good, as Riku is a wizard and it will auto-equip.
Speaking of wizards, Riptide Laboratory is great preotection for Riku, and for re-using the snapcaster mage.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I'm not adding anything else to connect with Riku. Pike is absolutely a last ditch effort and pretty much only gets used in conjunction with lands (Raging Ravine/Kessig Wolf Run) right now, and I'm not particularly eager to build around it. As much as I like your T&L list, I'm going for a bit of a different feel here - combat damage is probably not going to account for many wins, unless the creatures belonged to my opponent's before me.
Riptide Lab is one of my favorite lands, but it's pretty low on the list of colorless lands I want in here, especially because I don't think Snapcaster is sticking around. I run enough recursion that exiling is actually relevant. Holistic Wisdom gets a pass for being ridiculous and one of my favorite cards, but Snapcaster is less abusable here.
Thanks for checking out the list! I know it seems like I kind of ignored all your suggestions here, but I do appreciate you taking the time to respond.
I've been itching to rebuild riku showcasing the arcane melee. How has that worked out? Have you felt it more beneficial to your opponents? Is it going to be the cut for omniscience?
Since it seems you're doing big spells and you say it ramps like crazy, why no Banefire? With riku it can take out two players at once.
Cockatrice Username: seriph0
Riku is certainly a high-profile target, and if it was just a cycle, I'd agree with you. After all, no one runs mishra's and urza's baubles, despite being free replacements. I think this gets the nod though because it doesn't just replace itself. It actually gets you a free card. It's like casting divination for 0.
The way I think of it is such: Take the worst card of your deck. Manamorphose is one card better than that one.
It's really hard when you look at a list to include the manamorphose, since it always seems you can add a spell that actually does something, but really, the lowest values a manamorphose will ever have is to be the second worst card in your deck, which means you can always cut the worst card for it.
Fair enough, I just wanted to see if you'd considered other options. I happen to like the wizard relic a lot, as you'll be drawing anyways, it's a free equip, and it grants evasion. Plus, it's emergency draw option. Overall though, the pike is better for the last-ditch painful connect. The wand is more attrition based, along the lines of "well, riku's not doing much of anything anyways, might as well go sideways" mentality.
Fair enough, I usually find I don't keep enough mana untapped myself, though in your list it also works with Izzet Chronarch and also the new Archeomancer that will be coming out.
Wisdom is another of the cards that I tend to promote a lot, especially in Spell Riku builds. I was really happy to see someone else run it. It's absolutely amazing. Snappy can be hard to abuse, but in spell Riku lists it's mostly because the flash is less valuable. Riku likes to tap out when he casts something, so if you cast a sorcery, you're done for the round.
Have you considered adding Vedalken Orrery, Leyline of anticipation,
and Alchemists Refuge? I think Flash enablers are criminally underrated in Riku. It also acts as pseudo-haste/protection with Riku, giving you a better chance to untap with Riku. Likewise, Seedborn Muse can help get untapped lands out with Riku, as well as being stupidly broken with Orrery and co.Other protection options I have found to work well, besides Greaves/Boots, are: Elguarde Shieldmate, being able to copy it means you can protect Riku AND something else, like Muse, and Asceticism.
Hah, I do that all the time, especially when a list is new, and I'm less sure where I want to take it. Eventually you'll find something that doesn't work out as well, make a cut, and find a replacement or test something new. All good.
===
With all that out of the way, and the nod towards my T&L list... With your instant/sorcery count and ratio in the deck, have you considered Spellweaver Volute as a way to steal opposing spells and to reuse some of your spells like Brainstorm, Beast Within, Frantic Search, Fact or Fiction, etc? It also works well with Reverberate and Twincast, allowing you to double up whatever sorcery you used to trigger it.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Arcane Melee has been a champ. It's really only come down early enough to matter one time, but it did so much work that game. Even something simple like turning Harrow into fast mana is worthwhile, and it let me run through a ton of cards in a turn. I have yet to see the deck across the table that can abuse it as hard as this one. It's much more likely to be run alongside Omniscience, because they're both quite good in this deck.
Banefire was trumped by Rolling Thunder, which has the same player killing utility but can also take out a board of creatures or split damage between players, rather than massively overkilling someone. Can't be countered is nice, but I have counterspells of my own to protect it.
The problem I have with Manamorphose is that it is just cycling when Riku isn't out. If I untap with Riku, I'm in a good enough position that the extra card, while nice, is probably not essential. If I don't have Riku out when I untap, which is most turns of most games, then Manamorphose just cycles. I'd rather run one of the various 1 or 2 cmc filtering cards and accept that I'll be down a single mana.
I'm in no hurry to add equipment or other cards that synergize with creatures because I'm already talking about pulling all of my creatures. Of the ones I currently have, Glen Elendra Archmage and Izzet Chronarch are the only ones likely to last through the week. Archaeomancer might make it in, but I'm more likely to grab Woodland Guidance or something instead, because this deck is designed to abuse spells rather than creatures. Seedborn is also unlikely to make it in for much the same reasons - if I decide I want that effect, it's going to be Awakening. The symmetry isn't that damaging when I can basically take a turn for everyone at the table.
Leyline is almost certainly going to make the cut, then I'll consider Orrery from there. I was planning on Leyline already, but I unloaded all of mine the last time I was clearing out bulk. Refuge has been remarkably good, but a lot of that has been the ease of tutoring for it. I'm not sure I want two more cards filling the same role, but I think one might be workable.
Volute is another one that I've been considering, but don't have in a binder anywhere. I like the idea behind it, but the initial 5 hurts. Definitely under consideration.
My creature quality here isn't high enough for this to do me any favors, and I don't want to include some big, dumb beater so I have a target for a single card in the deck - odds are equally good that I'll draw the creature first, then I have a three mana, reveal my deck to target player, get a basic land and a Preordain sorcery, which is terrible. There are some decks where this isn't bad, but I'm pretty dedicated to my no worthwhile creatures theme.
Thanks to all for looking and for the input!