Dunno if you still play and update this deck, but I'm curious as to your opinion on Animation Module. At first glance, it's a self-contained Grimgrin-enabler with a bonus ability to boot. But you do need some fodder to get it started...
Dunno if you still play and update this deck, but I'm curious as to your opinion on Animation Module. At first glance, it's a self-contained Grimgrin-enabler with a bonus ability to boot. But you do need some fodder to get it started...
I have been constructing a new thread for my own Grimgrin build, that I hope to post within the month. (something with primer quality takes work)
I have been playing with animation module quite a bit. I have been finding it in the win more category. While it does maintain grimgrin, I find myself often forgetting to pay for triggers, and you still need the creature to seed it. Right now I am debating replacing it. I almost never choose it over Tormod's crypt or skull clamp when I drop Trinket mage, and it is only really good for explosive growth on grimgrin. My deck includes enough good token makers, ETB utility creatures and reanimation that I do not lack for sacrifice fodder.
Faerie Artisans is cool idea I may need steal. I hadn't thought of them and they are worth testing.
Dunno if you still play and update this deck, but I'm curious as to your opinion on Animation Module. At first glance, it's a self-contained Grimgrin-enabler with a bonus ability to boot. But you do need some fodder to get it started...
First, Animation Module is not bad. I don't run it myself as I didn't see something compelling enough to remove for it, but you wouldn't be wrong for playing it in your own list. It is just something that depends on your meta. I don't get many kills through Grimgrin getting commander damage, and even then, I don't want to be dumping the mana into it to try and one shot an opponent. Not to mention that I probably don't have that much mana to even get to the magical 21 power that I'd need and would overextend my board in the process (tapping out). I'd rather run Hatred or something if I was fixing to really pile on to Grimgrin and dome piece someone.
Yahenni, Undying Partisan is cute and an intriguing card to me, but doesn't really fit here with what we are aiming to do. They're a sacrifice outlet, but not the kind that I think we want. I have hesitation towards sacrifice outlets that aren't providing strong benefit to us, are incredibly cheap (3 mana is a bit much I think). There are some nice Grave Pact interactions with them, but we have a sacrifice outlet in our command zone and a variety of other ones in the deck. The card is redundant, but not efficient enough to come in.
Faerie Artisans is one that I had seen, but not really considered here. It is a token producer, which is nice, and you get nice ETB value from it, even if the tokens are temporary. You also get to sacrifice the tokens in response. What I don't like about it, however, is that it is a 4 drop that doesn't give guaranteed value since opponents can play around it. While it is likely that -someone- is going to play a creature that will give you a token, 4 mana is a lot to pay for a rattlesnake when they can remove it or Grimgrin and you'd be losing its most compelling benefits. It would warrant testing, but at 4 mana, it is in a very competitive slot. 3-5 mana is the powerhouse of EDH curves and a card has to be great to make it into that range for me at this point. I don't want to appear as though I'm making the argument that, "it will get removed so it isn't worth playing," because that isn't what I am saying. I am saying that there has to be a lot to go right for it to be the benefit that you'd be hoping to get at 4 mana when you include it in the list and it is so easy for opponents to play around it that there are likely just better, cheaper, or more resilient ways to produce tokens or sacrifice fodder. All that said, I do really like the card, I feel like it would be decent in the list, and disrupting opponents' turns by forcing them to deal with it or play sub-optimally (i.e. playing worse creatures to give you a worse token copy) is certainly valuable. Certainly worth testing, possibly worth a slot, but it is hard to know without testing first.
Thanks for the interest in the list. As I stated back in September, I don't update it as much and didn't pursue full primer status because there just does not seem to be the interest in this particular type of Grimgrin list because hurrdurr zombie tribal sort of rules the design space around him. I get updates when people post on this thread, though, so feel free to continue the discussion here. I still have the deck together and the list in the OP is up to date, so I am happy to talk about it. I don't make many changes these days because once a deck is together for this long, it reaches a point where the only cards worth considering are new releases and, even then, they have to be a really good fit since this deck has narrowed in on a specific strategy. That means the generic "goodstuff" from new sets that often gets people hyped just doesn't move the needle here because any card that is being added really needs to mesh with the strategy.
Dunno if you still play and update this deck, but I'm curious as to your opinion on Animation Module. At first glance, it's a self-contained Grimgrin-enabler with a bonus ability to boot. But you do need some fodder to get it started...
I have been constructing a new thread for my own Grimgrin build, that I hope to post within the month. (something with primer quality takes work)
I have been playing with animation module quite a bit. I have been finding it in the win more category. While it does maintain grimgrin, I find myself often forgetting to pay for triggers, and you still need the creature to seed it. Right now I am debating replacing it. I almost never choose it over Tormod's crypt or skull clamp when I drop Trinket mage, and it is only really good for explosive growth on grimgrin. My deck includes enough good token makers, ETB utility creatures and reanimation that I do not lack for sacrifice fodder.
Faerie Artisans is cool idea I may need steal. I hadn't thought of them and they are worth testing.
I agree with pretty much all of what you said. What sort of Grimgrin list are you running yourself?
I agree with pretty much all of what you said. What sort of Grimgrin list are you running yourself?
I am using multi-use single target reanimation to bring back the things Grimgrin eats. I have a supplemented that with "looting" effects, so that the reanimation can be used to cheat threats into play. The standard mono-black ramp package allows me cast Grimgrin multiple times, but it required design concessions, such as minimizing blue. There is only one card in the deck with a UU cost, and that is Tolaria West, which is there to fetch Cabal Coffers or Tormod's Crypt. (Although I have used it to fix for blue too, but that tends to make me feel sad inside)
One huge flaw, this deck kills me. I need to work on offsetting the life loss. Basilisk Collar + Loxodon Warhammer are recent additions taht still require further testing.
On friday I will be picking up stuff from the new set. Fetid Pools will replace Darkwater Catacombs, and Pyramid of the Pantheon will replace Sol Ring. Grimgrin is not after an explosive start. He wants to kill your opponents things, so they need to be just slightly ahead of you, or they will wait until Grimgrin gets answered. Access to blue is far more important in early / mid game, and it offers a massive buff in the late game. If you draw it late in the game, you can just loot it.
Thanks for showing your list, I'm going to give some -brief- thoughts and deck building tips, if you don't mind. I only mean these to help you, not to be taken as an insult or anything like that.
Kokusho, the Evening Star seems like a pretty big omission from your list as a reanimation target; it also works towards resolving that killing yourself problem you mentioned. Also, I'm cringing a bit at what your CMC has to be. You have 17 creatures that cost 5 mana or more. 13 of them are 6+ mana, with several of those being REALLY pricey. That feels pretty problematic to me. I make a point of lowering my CMC in my decklists the best that I can. You'd want to be somewhere between 3.0 and 3.4 with a deck like this, even with some of the mana production black has; we're just not a green deck. My list is around a 3.11, I only have 3 creatures at 5 mana and 5 creatures at 6 mana. There is just no way that you can play all of those big creatures you have, even with reanimation. You don't need that many big beater threats, especially when you can get them back from the yard. Even cheating things into play, that is a huge amount of dead draws that you don't want. I'd run more cards like Entomb, Dread Return, Reanimate, Buried Alive, Animate Dead to cheaply reanimate or get creatures into your graveyard or reanimate them rather than running cards that are dead if you draw them.
You also don't have any instant speed interaction in one of the best color pairings for control.
Kokusho, the Evening Star seems like a pretty big omission from your list as a reanimation target; it also works towards resolving that killing yourself problem you mentioned.
He is on my shopping list. Life forced me to sell my collection back in 2013, and I only got back into MTG last September. I will be getting him for this deck, it is just a matter of when, since he does not show up in trade binders. Likely I will take out Grave Titan.
Also, I'm cringing a bit at what your CMC has to be. You have 17 creatures that cost 5 mana or more. 13 of them are 6+ mana, with several of those being REALLY pricey. That feels pretty problematic to me. I make a point of lowering my CMC in my decklists the best that I can. You'd want to be somewhere between 3.0 and 3.4 with a deck like this, even with some of the mana production black has; we're just not a green deck. My list is around a 3.11, I only have 3 creatures at 5 mana and 5 creatures at 6 mana. There is just no way that you can play all of those big creatures you have, even with reanimation. You don't need that many big beater threats, especially when you can get them back from the yard. Even cheating things into play, that is a huge amount of dead draws that you don't want. I'd run more cards like Entomb, Dread Return, Reanimate, Buried Alive, Animate Dead to cheaply reanimate or get creatures into your graveyard or reanimate them rather than running cards that are dead if you draw them.
The average CMC of the deck is 3.98. It is a little skewed because of the eldrazi. I adhere very closely to this deck building formula, that results in a consistent casting curve for 99% of decks. Although I will admit to this being sluggish sometimes. I am hoping to compensate with more looting. Read the Runes is on my radar.
You also don't have any instant speed interaction in one of the best color pairings for control.
I am a green mage at heart. I suck at instant speed response, so I don't go out of my way to run it. Back in 2012 I had a list with more counter-spells, but I have never been very good at picking the correct moment to use them.
Grave Titan is one of the best creatures in the deck. You get 10 power at great efficiency for 6 mana, it generates multiple bodies and substantial power per turn with an ETB and attack trigger, and allows you to sacrifice creatures for all your value plays (Vampiric Rites, Attrition, etc.). It is honestly one of the best cards in the deck; I'd never even consider cutting him.
3.98 CMC is still REALLY high. My Omnath deck is a 3.94 and that deck does nothing, but ramp and make mana so it doesn't matter. I routinely have 40+ mana, sometimes more, in my mana pool and it just runs away with games. This Grimgrin list, however, does not have that same luxury. It is a 3.11 and sometimes I wish it were lower. I'd probably run a land or 2 more and lower the curve substantially. If your meta allows you to play slower, however, you are more than welcome to continue with that list. I found that I enjoyed my list much more, however, when I was able to play more than one spell in a turn because my CMC was low enough that I had the mana to do that. Easy swaps would be those reanimation spells I mentioned and putting a few counterspells in the list. You don't need too much in the way of spot removal, but something like Cyclonic Rift and Hero's Downfall would be enough (I have Grimgrin himself plus some other things in my list). I'd also consider Disallow; I hate running 3 CMC counters when I can avoid them, but of the 3 mana counterspells, I think this one is the best by far. The flexibility it adds helps out with some of the challenges this deck faces in interacting with certain triggers/permanent types if you aren't able to counter them.
I used to be a player that only ever wanted to run green. Anyone can be taught how to play control and use counters/removal wisely. I'd recommend, every time someone plays a card that you can counter, you think about how that card impacts your ability to win the game and whether you will be able to deal with it should it impact you at a later point. If the answer is yes, you need to weigh whether it will ruin an opponent's ability to win more than your own and force them to use an answer. You should also consider holding onto the counter at any point in the game where you feel an opponent may genuinely try to win, be it via combo, Craterhoof, or a very large Comet Storm. You don't need that many counterspells in the deck if your opponents know that they can't just throw out any play and have it go through because you do have some answers. If I was in your playgroup and I knew you had zero interaction in your list, I'd wait for you to walk your big 6+ drop into my removal and go sideways at you because I know I won't get Sudden Spoilinged. You need to have some responses, even if you don't have many, or players will be able to go after you without fear of being stopped. As a general rule, I try to have an answer to every possible threat in my deck. This means counter spells, Stifle effects like Disallow, spot removal for all permanent types, some graveyard hate, etc. Your deck doesn't need to be saturated in answers to accomplish this either. I find that building this way makes sure that I have outs rather than just folding because an opponent tried to win before you could and you had no answers in your deck, not just in your hand.
I am taking your feedback seriously, and I am going to try re-thinking my curve. I will post a new deck-list when I figure it out.
Also today i loaned it to a another to play with at my LGS today. When the game was over, he asked me where all of the instants were. He is a UB vintage/modern player and felt very strongly that the deck should include more things to do on an opponents turn.
I am still not going to run counter spells, but I have made a short list of instants to include,
Sudden Spoiling: Turn an attacking force into something harmless, or remove hex-proof / should from a good target for Grimgrin's ability.
Recoil: Just in case I run into an artifact or enchantment that is going to steal the show.
Here is my updated list. I may drop It that Betrays to put Rune-Scared Demon back. The win condition has moved more towards combo.
I went out of my way to get Pendrell Mists. Grimgrin is not happy when my opponents erect a wall of small creatures. I want him to kill big or important things with his trigger, and I want him to connect, so I use as much as I can to make sure he can connect with my opponent in a meaningful way. I also the mist's to be useful as a sac outlet for my own stuff when Grimgrin isn't around. I have been in a situation a few time with an active grave pact, but no way to trigger it. I am not out to build an army so it won't tax me that much, and I don't want that many cards that are only useful as a sac outlet, because then I am prone to over extending and wasting food for Grimgrin.
The casting curve is now 3.5, but that skewed by It That Betrays and Mulldrifter. If change It That Betrays to Rune-Scarred Demon and list Muldrifter for it's evoke cost, not it's hard cost that curve falls to 3.39.
I am going to look into finding a way to put Deathrender and Oversold Cemetery back into the list as I miss those cards. I also have a Rooftop Storm, but I do not feel like cutting the current 6 drops. Wurmcoil Engine is on my shortlist.
That list looks WORLDS better. I'm kind of in love with your current 6 drop package. Demon of Dark Schemes and Massacre Wurm are two of the 6 drops I love, but am not currently running (they just hang out in my binder atm). Clutch of the Undercity could be Capsize, which also happens to be a sweet combo if you can make infinite mana (rooftop + phyrexian altar + gravecrawler). I don't like my instant speed responses to cost more than 3, or 2 if I can help it because you have to figure that you want to play them on your opponent's turn. I know it has transmute, but are you really searching for that many critical pieces at 4 mana? If you want a tutor, Demonic or Vampiric are better and cheaper. Diabolic Tutor is also great in this list. If you're going for combo wins, tutoring for them makes that route for victory attainable. I don't love Dawn of the Dead, but I've never played it so maybe it is better than I'm giving it credit for. It seems like a slower Doubling Season where you need to play it and then have it go off.
Wurmcoil Engine really is that good, I feel. Deathrender and Oversold Cemetery seem to be just okay. Probably just run Volrath's Stronghold or Unholy Grotto as land-based replacements and save yourself a card. Phyrexian Reclamation can also be crazy strong in the same role and I'd actually prefer it. Getting multiple Gary activations can't be over stated. Other considerations are Toxic Deluge over BSZ, though you can run either. Kokusho and Exsanguinate seem better as lifegain options. I am not huge on equipment. Any Boots are good, Sword of Feast and Famine is good, and I'd only consider Batterskull other than that I think. I do really like Sword of Vengeance, but I've cut that too.
Taking lifegain equipment just feels unnecessary given how you can generally win (Massacre Wurm, Vela et al., Gary/Koko). Those card slots can be used for better enablers or more redundancy. You're also missing one of the best reanimate spells still; Reanimate is truly too good to exclude. I'd also look at removing about 4-5 swamps and adding another island and several more U/B duals. Access to blue shouldn't be underrated and you have Urborg anyway, so that is okay. I don't see what Rings does for you. You don't have many activated abilities and Strionic Resonator looks like it is more of what you'd want to do if you brought an effect like that since you do have a lot of triggered abilities. One card in this list that I sneaky love is Reef Worm. It just looks excellent in this list. So much value for 4 mana. You can't really do much better than that.
Overall, the list looks much better than it did before and I'm confident you'll enjoy playing it much more as you continue to make it more efficient and get a feel for what is working for you and what sits in your hand. The goal should be to get rid of every card in the deck that you don't feel adds as much to your enjoyment and gameplan. As you play, those cards should become evident.
Rings of Brighthearth -> Frantic Search: Rings was meant to double the power of my fetchlands, but I am building a Karlov of the Ghost Council deck where it will be more at home. Frantic Search offers more looting and the ability to untap Cabal Coffers, or 3 swamps with Crypt Ghast out.
Loxdon Warhammer -> Dauthi Embrace: As you pointed out, I need less life gain with Kothophed, Soul Hoarder gone. GG stills needs some evasion, so I put back a favorite card of mine, Dauthi Embrace. It can make your stuff unblockable, but I can also make an opponents creature unable to block, which is a relevant difference sometimes. You can also use it to interfere with a combat step between to other opponents.
Victimize -> Pyrexian Reclamation: Victimize is good, but something about it feels iffy to me right now, and Reclamation is permanent, which is how I prefer my recursion.
Retraction Helix -> Echoing Truth: Helix / Banishing Knack was fun to try, but rather clunky. Echoing Truth is more helpful in the face of tokens.
Lim-Dul's Vault -> Chasm Skulker: The vault is a great card, but I have so many search effects in here that I often mess up the top of my deck. Chasm Skulker is a great beater, and sac fodder. With all of my loot effects, he can get pretty big.
Wurmcoil Engine -> Rooftop Storm: I have never found Wurmcoil engine to be my most tactically sound option. Most of the players in my meta are modern players who play pre-cons or borrow decks from the handful of dedicated commander players. The other players at the table react negatively almost immediately. It has never gained me life, and as sac fodder goes, there is better. Rooftop Storm will solve my re-cast from command zone problem with Grimgrin. Any infinite combo's taht may result is just a bonus.
Clutch of the Undercity -> Ill-Gotten Gains: I like that Clutch keeps me on tempo, ensuring that I drop something useful turn 4, but I really dislike the UU and Commit // Memory feels better in every way.
I have 1 Reanimate and 1 Toxic Deluge, but they are both in my Skullbriar, the Walking Grave deck, where they are far more effective than here. Black Sun's Zenith is in grimgrin to specifically deal with Skullbriar.
Dawn of the Dead is ponderously slow, but like Primeval Bounty, it is one of those cards that provides long term value over the course of the game. Getting a trigger from Mulldrifter or Sidisi, Undead Vizier every upkeep is nothing to scoff at. If the reanimated creature dies in combat or is given to a sac outlet, you can skip the exile clause.
I recently replaced Dawn of the Dead with Liliana, Death's Majesty and I have been very happy with the change. While it makes me sad when I mill a really good non-creature spell, her +1 skill does a good job at providing Grimgrin with food, and her reanimate ability can be used the turn she hits the field.
You should give her a try, especially since her value is currently tanking.
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Besides that, Yahenni, Undying Partisan and Faerie Artisans have found a good home in my build. I recommend both of them.
I have been constructing a new thread for my own Grimgrin build, that I hope to post within the month. (something with primer quality takes work)
I have been playing with animation module quite a bit. I have been finding it in the win more category. While it does maintain grimgrin, I find myself often forgetting to pay for triggers, and you still need the creature to seed it. Right now I am debating replacing it. I almost never choose it over Tormod's crypt or skull clamp when I drop Trinket mage, and it is only really good for explosive growth on grimgrin. My deck includes enough good token makers, ETB utility creatures and reanimation that I do not lack for sacrifice fodder.
Faerie Artisans is cool idea I may need steal. I hadn't thought of them and they are worth testing.
First, Animation Module is not bad. I don't run it myself as I didn't see something compelling enough to remove for it, but you wouldn't be wrong for playing it in your own list. It is just something that depends on your meta. I don't get many kills through Grimgrin getting commander damage, and even then, I don't want to be dumping the mana into it to try and one shot an opponent. Not to mention that I probably don't have that much mana to even get to the magical 21 power that I'd need and would overextend my board in the process (tapping out). I'd rather run Hatred or something if I was fixing to really pile on to Grimgrin and dome piece someone.
Yahenni, Undying Partisan is cute and an intriguing card to me, but doesn't really fit here with what we are aiming to do. They're a sacrifice outlet, but not the kind that I think we want. I have hesitation towards sacrifice outlets that aren't providing strong benefit to us, are incredibly cheap (3 mana is a bit much I think). There are some nice Grave Pact interactions with them, but we have a sacrifice outlet in our command zone and a variety of other ones in the deck. The card is redundant, but not efficient enough to come in.
Faerie Artisans is one that I had seen, but not really considered here. It is a token producer, which is nice, and you get nice ETB value from it, even if the tokens are temporary. You also get to sacrifice the tokens in response. What I don't like about it, however, is that it is a 4 drop that doesn't give guaranteed value since opponents can play around it. While it is likely that -someone- is going to play a creature that will give you a token, 4 mana is a lot to pay for a rattlesnake when they can remove it or Grimgrin and you'd be losing its most compelling benefits. It would warrant testing, but at 4 mana, it is in a very competitive slot. 3-5 mana is the powerhouse of EDH curves and a card has to be great to make it into that range for me at this point. I don't want to appear as though I'm making the argument that, "it will get removed so it isn't worth playing," because that isn't what I am saying. I am saying that there has to be a lot to go right for it to be the benefit that you'd be hoping to get at 4 mana when you include it in the list and it is so easy for opponents to play around it that there are likely just better, cheaper, or more resilient ways to produce tokens or sacrifice fodder. All that said, I do really like the card, I feel like it would be decent in the list, and disrupting opponents' turns by forcing them to deal with it or play sub-optimally (i.e. playing worse creatures to give you a worse token copy) is certainly valuable. Certainly worth testing, possibly worth a slot, but it is hard to know without testing first.
Thanks for the interest in the list. As I stated back in September, I don't update it as much and didn't pursue full primer status because there just does not seem to be the interest in this particular type of Grimgrin list because hurrdurr zombie tribal sort of rules the design space around him. I get updates when people post on this thread, though, so feel free to continue the discussion here. I still have the deck together and the list in the OP is up to date, so I am happy to talk about it. I don't make many changes these days because once a deck is together for this long, it reaches a point where the only cards worth considering are new releases and, even then, they have to be a really good fit since this deck has narrowed in on a specific strategy. That means the generic "goodstuff" from new sets that often gets people hyped just doesn't move the needle here because any card that is being added really needs to mesh with the strategy.
I agree with pretty much all of what you said. What sort of Grimgrin list are you running yourself?
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
I am using multi-use single target reanimation to bring back the things Grimgrin eats. I have a supplemented that with "looting" effects, so that the reanimation can be used to cheat threats into play. The standard mono-black ramp package allows me cast Grimgrin multiple times, but it required design concessions, such as minimizing blue. There is only one card in the deck with a UU cost, and that is Tolaria West, which is there to fetch Cabal Coffers or Tormod's Crypt. (Although I have used it to fix for blue too, but that tends to make me feel sad inside)
1 Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
Creature
1 Gravecrawler
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Dreamscape Artist
1 Withered Wretch
1 Baleful Strix
1 Coffin Queen
1 Chasm Skulker
1 Pilgrim's Eye
1 Zombie Trailblazer
1 Trophy Mage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Ophiomancer
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Body Snatcher
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Reef Worm
1 Smothering Abomination
1 Forgotten Creation
1 Mulldrifter
1 Havengul Lich
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Grave Titan
1 Ruthless Deathfang
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Demon of Dark Schemes
1 Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Noxious Gearhulk
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Pathrazer of Ulamog
1 It that Betrays
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Animation Module
1 Expedition Map
1 Skullclamp
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Key to the City
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Trading Post
1 Deathrender
Planeswalker
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
1 Liliana Vess
Enchantment
1 Oversold Cemetery
1 Bitterblossom
1 Unfulfilled Desires
1 Grave Pact
1 Dawn of the Dead
1 Dictate of Erebos
1 Black Market
Instants
1 Ancient Excavation
1 Insidious Dreams
Sorcery
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Rise of the Dark Realms
Mana Artifact
1 Sol Ring
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Dimir Signet
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Springjack Pasture
1 Tolaria West
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Fetch Land
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bad River
1 Rocky Tar Pit
1 Flood Plain
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
Standard Land
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Watery Grave
1 Darkwater Catacombs
1 Island
18 Swamp
One huge flaw, this deck kills me. I need to work on offsetting the life loss. Basilisk Collar + Loxodon Warhammer are recent additions taht still require further testing.
On friday I will be picking up stuff from the new set. Fetid Pools will replace Darkwater Catacombs, and Pyramid of the Pantheon will replace Sol Ring. Grimgrin is not after an explosive start. He wants to kill your opponents things, so they need to be just slightly ahead of you, or they will wait until Grimgrin gets answered. Access to blue is far more important in early / mid game, and it offers a massive buff in the late game. If you draw it late in the game, you can just loot it.
Kokusho, the Evening Star seems like a pretty big omission from your list as a reanimation target; it also works towards resolving that killing yourself problem you mentioned. Also, I'm cringing a bit at what your CMC has to be. You have 17 creatures that cost 5 mana or more. 13 of them are 6+ mana, with several of those being REALLY pricey. That feels pretty problematic to me. I make a point of lowering my CMC in my decklists the best that I can. You'd want to be somewhere between 3.0 and 3.4 with a deck like this, even with some of the mana production black has; we're just not a green deck. My list is around a 3.11, I only have 3 creatures at 5 mana and 5 creatures at 6 mana. There is just no way that you can play all of those big creatures you have, even with reanimation. You don't need that many big beater threats, especially when you can get them back from the yard. Even cheating things into play, that is a huge amount of dead draws that you don't want. I'd run more cards like Entomb, Dread Return, Reanimate, Buried Alive, Animate Dead to cheaply reanimate or get creatures into your graveyard or reanimate them rather than running cards that are dead if you draw them.
You also don't have any instant speed interaction in one of the best color pairings for control.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
He is on my shopping list. Life forced me to sell my collection back in 2013, and I only got back into MTG last September. I will be getting him for this deck, it is just a matter of when, since he does not show up in trade binders. Likely I will take out Grave Titan.
The average CMC of the deck is 3.98. It is a little skewed because of the eldrazi. I adhere very closely to this deck building formula, that results in a consistent casting curve for 99% of decks. Although I will admit to this being sluggish sometimes. I am hoping to compensate with more looting. Read the Runes is on my radar.
70 Main deck cards, counting your Commander:
40 cards in the mana base:
4 Mana rocks
36 Lands
I am a green mage at heart. I suck at instant speed response, so I don't go out of my way to run it. Back in 2012 I had a list with more counter-spells, but I have never been very good at picking the correct moment to use them.
List from 2012
3.98 CMC is still REALLY high. My Omnath deck is a 3.94 and that deck does nothing, but ramp and make mana so it doesn't matter. I routinely have 40+ mana, sometimes more, in my mana pool and it just runs away with games. This Grimgrin list, however, does not have that same luxury. It is a 3.11 and sometimes I wish it were lower. I'd probably run a land or 2 more and lower the curve substantially. If your meta allows you to play slower, however, you are more than welcome to continue with that list. I found that I enjoyed my list much more, however, when I was able to play more than one spell in a turn because my CMC was low enough that I had the mana to do that. Easy swaps would be those reanimation spells I mentioned and putting a few counterspells in the list. You don't need too much in the way of spot removal, but something like Cyclonic Rift and Hero's Downfall would be enough (I have Grimgrin himself plus some other things in my list). I'd also consider Disallow; I hate running 3 CMC counters when I can avoid them, but of the 3 mana counterspells, I think this one is the best by far. The flexibility it adds helps out with some of the challenges this deck faces in interacting with certain triggers/permanent types if you aren't able to counter them.
I used to be a player that only ever wanted to run green. Anyone can be taught how to play control and use counters/removal wisely. I'd recommend, every time someone plays a card that you can counter, you think about how that card impacts your ability to win the game and whether you will be able to deal with it should it impact you at a later point. If the answer is yes, you need to weigh whether it will ruin an opponent's ability to win more than your own and force them to use an answer. You should also consider holding onto the counter at any point in the game where you feel an opponent may genuinely try to win, be it via combo, Craterhoof, or a very large Comet Storm. You don't need that many counterspells in the deck if your opponents know that they can't just throw out any play and have it go through because you do have some answers. If I was in your playgroup and I knew you had zero interaction in your list, I'd wait for you to walk your big 6+ drop into my removal and go sideways at you because I know I won't get Sudden Spoilinged. You need to have some responses, even if you don't have many, or players will be able to go after you without fear of being stopped. As a general rule, I try to have an answer to every possible threat in my deck. This means counter spells, Stifle effects like Disallow, spot removal for all permanent types, some graveyard hate, etc. Your deck doesn't need to be saturated in answers to accomplish this either. I find that building this way makes sure that I have outs rather than just folding because an opponent tried to win before you could and you had no answers in your deck, not just in your hand.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
Also today i loaned it to a another to play with at my LGS today. When the game was over, he asked me where all of the instants were. He is a UB vintage/modern player and felt very strongly that the deck should include more things to do on an opponents turn.
I am still not going to run counter spells, but I have made a short list of instants to include,
Sudden Spoiling: Turn an attacking force into something harmless, or remove hex-proof / should from a good target for Grimgrin's ability.
Recoil: Just in case I run into an artifact or enchantment that is going to steal the show.
Banishing Knack: Dependant on GG, but could be explosive.
I went out of my way to get Pendrell Mists. Grimgrin is not happy when my opponents erect a wall of small creatures. I want him to kill big or important things with his trigger, and I want him to connect, so I use as much as I can to make sure he can connect with my opponent in a meaningful way. I also the mist's to be useful as a sac outlet for my own stuff when Grimgrin isn't around. I have been in a situation a few time with an active grave pact, but no way to trigger it. I am not out to build an army so it won't tax me that much, and I don't want that many cards that are only useful as a sac outlet, because then I am prone to over extending and wasting food for Grimgrin.
The casting curve is now 3.5, but that skewed by It That Betrays and Mulldrifter. If change It That Betrays to Rune-Scarred Demon and list Muldrifter for it's evoke cost, not it's hard cost that curve falls to 3.39.
5 Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
Creatures (26)
1 Gravecrawler
2 Dreamscape Artist
2 Baleful Strix
2 Reassembling Skeleton
3 Ophiomancer
3 Coffin Queen
3 Zombie Trailblazer
3 Pilgrim's Eye
3 Big Game Hunter
3 Trinket Mage
4 Reef Worm
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Crypt Ghast
5 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
5 Havengul Lich
5 Mulldrifter
5 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
6 Noxious Gearhulk
6 Grave Titan
6 Massacre Wurm
6 Demon of Dark Schemes
6 Wurmcoil Engine
7 Sheoldred, Whispering one
7 It That Betrays
Artifacts (10)
0 Tormod's Crypt
1 Expedition Map
1 Skullclamp
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Animation Module
2 Key to the City
2 Lightning Greaves
3 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Rings of Brighthearth
4 Trading Post
2 Bitterblossom
2 Animate Dead
3 Unfulfilled Desires
4 Pendrell Mists
4 Grave Pact
5 Dictate of Erebos
5 Dawn of the Dead
Instant (12)
1 Retraction Helix
2 Negate
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 Read the Runes
3 Recoil
3 Sudden Spoiling
4 Commit // Memory
4 Clutch of the Undercity
4 Insidious Dreams
4 Ancient Excavation
5 Silumgar's Command
Sorcery (4)
2 Stitch Together
3 Victimize
5 Black Sun's Zenith
8 Rise of the Dark Realms
Mana Artifacts (4)
1 Sol Ring
2 Talisman of Dominance
2 Dimir Signet
3 Phyrexian Altar
0 Watery Grave
0 Fetid Pools
0 Sunken Hollow
0 Cephalid Coliseum
0 Tolaria West
0 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
0 Springjack Pasture
0 Cabal Coffers
0 Polluted Delta
0 Bloodstained Mire
0 Flooded Strand
0 Bad River
0 Rocky Tar Pit
0 Flood Plain
0 Myriad Landscape
0 Island (x2)
0 Swamp (x20)
I am going to look into finding a way to put Deathrender and Oversold Cemetery back into the list as I miss those cards. I also have a Rooftop Storm, but I do not feel like cutting the current 6 drops. Wurmcoil Engine is on my shortlist.
Wurmcoil Engine really is that good, I feel. Deathrender and Oversold Cemetery seem to be just okay. Probably just run Volrath's Stronghold or Unholy Grotto as land-based replacements and save yourself a card. Phyrexian Reclamation can also be crazy strong in the same role and I'd actually prefer it. Getting multiple Gary activations can't be over stated. Other considerations are Toxic Deluge over BSZ, though you can run either. Kokusho and Exsanguinate seem better as lifegain options. I am not huge on equipment. Any Boots are good, Sword of Feast and Famine is good, and I'd only consider Batterskull other than that I think. I do really like Sword of Vengeance, but I've cut that too.
Taking lifegain equipment just feels unnecessary given how you can generally win (Massacre Wurm, Vela et al., Gary/Koko). Those card slots can be used for better enablers or more redundancy. You're also missing one of the best reanimate spells still; Reanimate is truly too good to exclude. I'd also look at removing about 4-5 swamps and adding another island and several more U/B duals. Access to blue shouldn't be underrated and you have Urborg anyway, so that is okay. I don't see what Rings does for you. You don't have many activated abilities and Strionic Resonator looks like it is more of what you'd want to do if you brought an effect like that since you do have a lot of triggered abilities. One card in this list that I sneaky love is Reef Worm. It just looks excellent in this list. So much value for 4 mana. You can't really do much better than that.
Overall, the list looks much better than it did before and I'm confident you'll enjoy playing it much more as you continue to make it more efficient and get a feel for what is working for you and what sits in your hand. The goal should be to get rid of every card in the deck that you don't feel adds as much to your enjoyment and gameplan. As you play, those cards should become evident.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
Rings of Brighthearth -> Frantic Search: Rings was meant to double the power of my fetchlands, but I am building a Karlov of the Ghost Council deck where it will be more at home. Frantic Search offers more looting and the ability to untap Cabal Coffers, or 3 swamps with Crypt Ghast out.
Loxdon Warhammer -> Dauthi Embrace: As you pointed out, I need less life gain with Kothophed, Soul Hoarder gone. GG stills needs some evasion, so I put back a favorite card of mine, Dauthi Embrace. It can make your stuff unblockable, but I can also make an opponents creature unable to block, which is a relevant difference sometimes. You can also use it to interfere with a combat step between to other opponents.
Victimize -> Pyrexian Reclamation: Victimize is good, but something about it feels iffy to me right now, and Reclamation is permanent, which is how I prefer my recursion.
Retraction Helix -> Echoing Truth: Helix / Banishing Knack was fun to try, but rather clunky. Echoing Truth is more helpful in the face of tokens.
Lim-Dul's Vault -> Chasm Skulker: The vault is a great card, but I have so many search effects in here that I often mess up the top of my deck. Chasm Skulker is a great beater, and sac fodder. With all of my loot effects, he can get pretty big.
Wurmcoil Engine -> Rooftop Storm: I have never found Wurmcoil engine to be my most tactically sound option. Most of the players in my meta are modern players who play pre-cons or borrow decks from the handful of dedicated commander players. The other players at the table react negatively almost immediately. It has never gained me life, and as sac fodder goes, there is better. Rooftop Storm will solve my re-cast from command zone problem with Grimgrin. Any infinite combo's taht may result is just a bonus.
Clutch of the Undercity -> Ill-Gotten Gains: I like that Clutch keeps me on tempo, ensuring that I drop something useful turn 4, but I really dislike the UU and Commit // Memory feels better in every way.
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I have 1 Reanimate and 1 Toxic Deluge, but they are both in my Skullbriar, the Walking Grave deck, where they are far more effective than here. Black Sun's Zenith is in grimgrin to specifically deal with Skullbriar.
Dawn of the Dead is ponderously slow, but like Primeval Bounty, it is one of those cards that provides long term value over the course of the game. Getting a trigger from Mulldrifter or Sidisi, Undead Vizier every upkeep is nothing to scoff at. If the reanimated creature dies in combat or is given to a sac outlet, you can skip the exile clause.
You should give her a try, especially since her value is currently tanking.