OK... it's been a while, and I have a huge update. I decided to put more emphasis on flavour. In my opinion, slivers are like a cross between Aliens (from the movies) and the "bugs" from Starship Troopers, so I decided to go with things that feel evil, alien, or "natural" in an evolution/mutation sort of way. That means I wanted to avoid friendly creatures (no Elvish Piper or Mirage tutors), any equipment that can't be physically worn by a sliver (Lightning Greaves, etc), and other artifacts that don't seem appropriate for slivers (Sol Ring?), even in some cases of several "staples". I even excluded Sensei's Divining Top... until I got a Japanese version that looks kind of alien (no offense intended to my Asian friends) - so it's now in the sideboard (depends if play group allows it or not). The only card that doesn't quite fit is Training Grounds. But I can imagine an alt-art version with animals being trained rather than wizards - it could work. Otherwise I'll go with Heartstone; same effect, although not quite as good.
I'm missing a couple of cards I'd like to add (Tooth and Nail, Natural Order, and All Suns' Dawn - the regular version of the latter is cheap, but I'm having a hard time tracking down a foil for a reasonable price). Anyway... this is the list I'm currently using.
Surprisingly, for a 5-colour deck, mana-screw has yet to be an issue. The deck was designed for multiplayer, hence some potentially cooperative cards like the Velis Vel tribal instants and the Forbidden Orchard (which I sideboarded out for 1-on-1). But I've been playing it with my girlfriend (I was slivers for 3 games, then she has played the slivers for the last 8 or 9 games) against the following "heroic" deck (still a work in progress). So far the slivers have been cleaning up, often getting the commander out by turn 4 or 5 (via Coalition Relic, etc), and usually winning the game by turn 8 or 9 - usually with Shifting Sliver and Sliver Legion as the key players.
I'll summarize a couple of the games in the next post(s). Meanwhile, here's the equipment-heavy "heroic" deck list so far:
The heroes now have 2 wins out of about a dozen games - both exploiting Serra Ascendant and KaltraTRON via Stoneforge Mystic, Kor Outfitter, and/or Armament Master. The deck also has most of the green/white/blue Allies, and I'd like to take more advantage of EOT effects with that deck, so I'll work in more boomerang-like instants including Otherworldly Journey, etc (Repulse is already in there). They have the added bonus of being temporary removal, but I'd try to save them for my own creatures whenever possible.
I might even swap out some of the weaker creatures for some of the blue ninjas from Kamigawa block, exploiting the Ninjutsu mechanic to re-cast the EOT creatures.
So far, I'm impressed with how well the Exalted mechanic works... especially if you can get Stoic Angel out to slow down your opponents' non-vigilant creatures. That way, you don't feel bad keeping lots of creatures behind and available to block.
I'm undecided if I should put Tezzeret in the main deck. His -X is awesome (can tutor up artifacts including equipment), but this deck doesn't have much use for his +1. Well, I guess he could tutor for Sol Ring on his first turn, and then that would give him a target for his +1. Unfortunately it and Citanul Flute are the only 2 targets for his +1 currently in the deck, and using his -X to tutor for a 5 cmc artifact is pushing it.
Thirty-five lands in the "heroic" deck may be a little low, but it hasn't been a problem yet with so many cheap creatures and ways of cheating in equipment. It could stand some fetch lands and better dual lands (e.g. shock lands, maybe more man-lands), but I currently only own one of each of those in the sliver deck. Similarly, all my "Mirrodin" swords (Sword of Body and Mind, Sword of Feast and Famine, Sword of Light and Darkness, Sword of Fire and Ice) are currently in other decks. I should definitely add the last 3 of those.
And what about Worldslayer? It could come in handy in certain situations (especially vs slivers). Unfortunately, I don't think it could it be combo'ed with Ghostway (?); e.g. can you do combat damage with a creature equipped with Worldslayer, and then exile creatures before the resulting "whenever" wipe effect resolves, or would that involve preventing the damage (removing the attacking creature before combat damage is assigned) and thus not triggering the effect? Basically, could the stack look like:
[top]
- combat damage assigned to a player
- Ghostway's exile effect
- Worldslayer's wipe effect
[bottom]
The first game with the sliver list above (maybe with 1 or 2 changes) was played against a different "hero" list that had more emphasis on generating tokens (mostly wolves and elf warriors) using Tolsimir Wolfblood as the commander. It went something like this:
- Heart Sliver on turn 2 + swung for 1;
- cast an artifact (Coalition Relic?) on turn 3 + swung with - Heart Sliver for 1;
- dropped Essence Sliver on turn 3 + swung with it for 3 with lifelink;
- dropped Brood Sliver on turn 4 + swung with it and Essence for 6 with lifelink (unblocked) and got 2 sliver tokens;
- got Sliver Overlord into play on turn 6, swung with it and Brood and Essence, but they were blocked by wolves (see below)...
- then used Blades of Velis Vel + Sliver Overlord's ability to steal Master of the Wild (which had been pumping out wolf token chump blockers for the past few turns), making him a 5/3 with lifelink and the ability to generate sliver tokens (if unblocked) and swung with him that turn!
- got a wolf token from Master of the Wild Hunt, dropped Sliver Legion, and swung with everybody (except the wolf - summoning sickness) for the win.
In a more recent game, I was playing as the "heroes". I drew a great starting hand full of cheap allies and thought I was in good shape. I used Mythical Tutor on turn 3 to find Enlightened Tutor, then used Repulse to bounce Root Sliver so I could draw my Enlightened Tutor, and then cast it to get Quest for the Holy Relic - probably a mistake, but I had a lot of cheap creatures in hand and thought it might work out in my favour. Anyway, I had that Quest on the battlefield on turn 4 and played a series of cheap allies + my commander on the next few turns. After 5 creatures within 4 turns, I used Quest for the Holy Relic to tutor and equip Argentum Armor on my 5/6 Hada Freeblade (via Marshal's Anthem and other allies) and was swinging with him as an exalted double-striker who can destroy a target creature upon attacking! Things can't be better, right?
Meanwhile, by turn 8 she had Shifting Sliver, Root Sliver (again), Toxin Sliver, Pulmonic Sliver, and Sliver Overlord in play, and had just used her commander to tutor Sliver Legion to her hand (!). I had lots of creatures in play (including 3 Spirit tokens she'd given me via Forbidden Orchard), but they were useless to me, as Shifting Sliver was kicking my butt (as it usually does). It was clearly the one to remove, so I swung with Hada Freeblade as an exalted double-striker and destroyed Shifting Sliver via his Argentum Armor. Unfortunately, I'd completely forgotten about Pulmonic Sliver's second ability: Shifting Sliver was merely placed on the top of her deck, and of course would return to play next turn. Doh!! She let Hada go unblocked for 24 damage, leaving her at about 5 life. Then she played BOTH Shifting Sliver and Sliver Legion, and swung with all the others (Root, Toxin, Pulmonic, and Overlord - all unblockable) for a combined 15+(4x5)=35 damage, which was more than lethal!
Last summary... I'll let pictures do the talking. This is how you beat the sliver deck in 6 turns:
Technically that "Death Touch" reminder token should say "Exile touch", but we decided that's close enough for Sword of Kaldra's rather rare effect. And Worldly Tutor was used on turn 1 to find Serra Ascendant. The rest is pretty self-explanatory.
Sooooo... a fellow servant of the Hive. Well met, and welcome to the ranks of the Swarm! Make sure you pay your respects to the Overlord and the Queen before leaving.
Gref and I have been working for a long time on building an EDH sliver deck that runs smoothly. He and I ended with different decklists, and ATM I'm trying a build that's mostly the design of someone else's... and, my fellow sliverphile, it works beautifully
I'd rather not bore you with comments and ask you to just refer to the link on my sig, but I can't help but saying that apparently the same cards pop time and time and again when it comes to building slivers Since I've spent months building it and playing it, I thought I might as well share some of my experiences with a comrade:
- I also used to run Urza's Incubator, Door of Destinies and Eldrazi Monument, but ended up ditching them for different reasons... I found Incubator was only useful if drawn on your opening hand and not worth tutoring up, while the other two had enormous targets painted over them and did not last long on the table. IDK about your meta, but my table is just plain scared silly of slivers and anything that buffs them gets nuked. Disproportionately so.
- I found Training Grounds to be another card that looked great on paper, but was tricky to make the best out of it on practice. Again, not worth tutoring up IMHO.
- You made me want to kick myself for not remembering about Intruder Alarm... I ordered it, the order never made it to my mailbox, and totally forgot to re-order it when I got refunded. Pigeon crap. Fact is, what would I ax to make room for it?
- Amoeboid Changeling and Unnatural Selection just didn't cut it. They won me an AWESOME game on Cockatrice (I stole a Phage), but 85% of the time I didn't get any returns from that investment. I found these slots were better used with ramp sorceries or board sweeps.
- I tried Green Sun's Zenith too, but I found the 'green creature' limitation to be crippling. Chord of Calling and Wargate are better candidates for that position IMHO, the latter being capable of fetching you any one permanent.
- What are your experiences with Cryptic Gateway? I axed it after finding that, as my sliver count dwindled, so did its usefulness. It was an absolute monster when I ran 39 creatures, but, as of now...
- Considering that one of the first slivers you'll want to play is the Crystalline, I can't help but saying that I'm confused as to the purpose of all the Velis Vel spells. If you ran Peer Pressure along the Shields, that'd make a lot of sense (and strike fear into your opponents' minds, too)... again, what are your experiences?
So far, I've just been testing this deck 1-on-1 against another creature deck... so not much in the way of control or recursion. Usually the game ends when Sliver Overlord steals the other player's commander and/or fatties. I've been avoiding Crystalline Sliver so that the Overlord can still target "slivers" after using Amoeboid Changling / Unnatural Selection / Velis Vel instants to convert them. Instead of Crystalline Sliver, I've been using Asceticism... but it's certainly not as easy to tutor for. Another option is to use Crystalline Sliver and then sac it (via Necrotic Sliver, etc) to make use of the stealing engines. Since creature stealing is my main wincon, I'm getting a lot of miles out of Training Grounds, so I'm unlikely to drop that one.
I'm still running Cryptic Gateway. It's terrific for cheating in Sliver Legion and Fury Sliver (if I don't have another way in hand). The number-one killer so far is Shifting Sliver. It's always an early tutor - right after getting the required protection, be it shroud or whatever. It's involved in > 90% of wins, and is rarely on the battlefield for a loss. Basically it allows Sliver Overlord to swing away, and once buffed up, he usually only needs two hits to kill.
I don't have time right now but I'll certainly look at your list and type out my revised deck list soon. I even tried a variation where I brought in 3 planeswalkers just to see how it would go: Sarkhan Vol (extra boost + more creature stealing), Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas (mainly to find mana-ramping artifacts), and Nicol Bolas (just 'cause I've got the mana base for him). Needs more play testing though, especially multi-player!
Freshly out of a kickass EDH night... used both of my decks: Hidetsugu and Overlord. The only game I played using slivers ended in a brutal curbstomp. The opposition:
- Mayael the Anima
- Sen Triplets
- Thraximundar
Not a particularly special starting hand... but my second draw was a Sylvan Library, which I played immediately and was followed by a Phyrexian Arena. The only thing I was stopped from playing was Sterling Grove (countered), but it turned out to be an excellent distraction since I cast Mana Reflection with no problems at all immediately afterward. I didn't really expect it to survive a whole turn, but it did... and then, an entwined Tooth and Nail to fetch Crystalline Sliver and Gemhide Sliver. Again I didn't expect them to survive a turn, shroud or not, but since they did survive I just put the Overlord into play and it was game. I'll leave the combo machine details for you to imagine
Mind you, it was probably a ridiculously lucky match, especially since I got to keep the best 2 cards out of 4 on each draw step very early on. And I don't know how well would this build fare 1v1, it's built for multiplayer free-for-all. (In the name of everything holy, don't give me a control deck to support me in a team game or it will all be over very fast.)
Okay, you and I go for different winning conditions and strategies, probably because of meta; anything with even the slightest whiff of creature stealing on it got nuked back to the Dinosaur Era, so I had to cut it entirely. Whenever I win, it's generally because of either massive damage (not just general damage) or infinite slivers (Mana Echoes + Sliver Queen). I used to run Liliana Vess for tutoring only, but the current build just doesn't need it, and I'm not really very skilled on discard strategies. I'm sorely tempted to try tossing Garruk Wildspeaker into the mix. I really, really like Praetor's Counsel, but, as you point out, it takes a bucketload of mana to play. Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker didn't work for me at all, it got literally torn to pieces every time it entered play, but again, that's probably my meta. The Thraximundar deck I played against today made great use of it, but it had counters and removal to back it up, so beware of running Nicol if you aren't going to ship cards to protect it.
It's been a long time since I've updated my deck list. I've moved towards a deck that removes or (more often) steals any threats that are on the board, then wins either through combat damage (sometimes commander damage; after all, it only takes 3 swings! And Shifting Sliver makes it easy) or combos out with Sliver Queen (via Intruder Alarm or Mana Echoes, doing direct damage through Psionic Sliver). But it's creature stealing (various Sliver Overlord combos) and removal via Harmonic Sliver and Necrotic Sliver that usually sets up the win.
Here's the current list. It's always changing; (*) represents recent changes and/or cards I'm testing. Numbers on the left are CMC.
With the release of the new pre-con decks, I'll obviously add a Command Tower, and might also replace the "vivid" lands with basics (so I'm not screwed by Collective Voyage) and also sub in the Onslaught fetch lands (instead of some Lorwyn-block filter lands?) to make better use of Crucible of Worlds.
*edit*
Against a meta that uses more wrath, I would definitely swap in Patriarch's Bidding and Oversold Cemetery. And if I wanted to do some wrathing myself (besides Harsh Mercy, which doesn't work against other tribal decks), I'd run All is Dust with Ghostflame Sliver. And if I wanted more teamwork-type effects, I'd put the two other Velis Vel cards back in, but lately I've found that Shields of Velis Vel (which converts ALL of a target player's creatures for W) + Unnatural Selection + Amoeboid Changeling + Peer Pressure gives me plenty of creature stealing. And the recent addition of Memnarch allows me to steal artifacts, and can do some creature stealing himself if Sliver Overlord gets tucked or (gasp) stolen.
I've been linking new Sliver Commander players to this thread and then realized it was several months out-of-date. From now on, I'll try to keep post#1 in this thread current. The only "big" change is the mana base; the old one worked (used 5 enemy fetches to find 5 allied shocks; otherwise vivid and filter lands for most fixing), but I've decided to go with all 10x fetches and 10x shock lands for ultimate consistency ... at a cost of 3 life per turn in the early game. I've also added 5 basics in case somebody casts Collective Voyage or Blood Moon or something, but it hasn't come up yet.
I'm also still flirting with Memnarch. I keep taking him out, then bringing him back. He's no good in 1-vs-1 or small multiplayer, but gets better the bigger the game. And I discovered Vedalken AEthermage - a horrible card that actually does something in this deck. It can bounce a doomed sliver or allow reuse of an EtB effect (Harmonic Sliver), or it can be "cycled" to find Memnarch or, if Sliver Overlord isn't around for some reason, any of the changelings (Amoeboid Changeling, Taurean Mauler, Mirror Entity, Blades of Velis Vel, Shields of Velis Vel). But I'm sure there will be times where I'd rather just have Frenetic Sliver (e.g. facing a sweeper with 1000 sliver tokens in play) and Conflux, so they're on the "chop this next" list.
If you can, grab the ABUR duals. They really make this deck roll.
I only run 6 fetches (1 allied and 5 enemy) but run 10x Duals and 10x shocks. Mana base is never a problem. I run more mana rocks though. In multiplayer, felwar stone is very good. I hardly see it in lists. The only big time money rock I don't run is Mana Crypt. It might help, but not as much as the pricetag would hurt. lol
I need to get an updated list.
This deck is a money pit! lol
I'll bookmark this thread so I can update my list and post.
Oh, and if you have 1000 sliver tokens, you should have won the game already.
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I play a somewhat more budgeted version of this deck but i think that you should put in training grounds and heartstone to give you infinite combos with sliver queen, also how did you get a foil sliver queen? i didnt think that there were foils in that set..... But nice deck
If you can, grab the ABUR duals. They really make this deck roll.
I only run 6 fetches (1 allied and 5 enemy) but run 10x Duals and 10x shocks. Mana base is never a problem. I run more mana rocks though. In multiplayer, felwar stone is very good. I hardly see it in lists. The only big time money rock I don't run is Mana Crypt. It might help, but not as much as the pricetag would hurt. lol
I need to get an updated list.
This deck is a money pit! lol
I'll bookmark this thread so I can update my list and post.
Oh, and if you have 1000 sliver tokens, you should have won the game already.
I only have a few of the ABUR duals and they're in other decks (legacy; one Tropical Island in an Edric deck). I haven't had problems with mana for a while, and the life lost to shock lands doesn't make much difference. In fact I recently cut some of the artifact mana fixers (Prophetic Prism, Sphere of the Suns, Kaleidostone) because I've felt I have too many. I somehow forgot about Fellwar Stone, though. It's the artifact equivalent of Exotic Orchard, which is pretty good in a big game. I remember considering it once, but somehow it didn't get included. I might have to dig one out of a box.
Re: 1000 sliver tokens, I'd literally just executed the Mana Echoes combo and announced I'd stop at 1000 (hasty) 1/1 sliver tokens. Then I said "Declare attackers" and an opponent said "In response... Volcanic Fallout". I didn't have the coloured mana to tutor up and play Quick Sliver and Sliver Legion (or Psionic Sliver, etc) in response, so I lost all my tokens. Oh well. Next time...
I play a somewhat more budgeted version of this deck but i think that you should put in training grounds and heartstone to give you infinite combos with sliver queen, also how did you get a foil sliver queen? i didnt think that there were foils in that set..... But nice deck
Foil Sliver Queen was a typo (all the other slivers are foils and I got carried away with Ctrl+V). Unfortunately the resevered list / reprint policy prevents us from having a foil of her.
Foil Sliver Queen was a typo (all the other slivers are foils and I got carried away with Ctrl+V). Unfortunately the resevered list / reprint policy prevents us from having a foil of her.
No, run hearstone too!
It's a 99 card singleton deck, you need to make sure you have the best chance you can at getting that discounted activation on the queen. It's what lets you go infinite.
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It's a 99 card singleton deck, you need to make sure you have the best chance you can at getting that discounted activation on the queen. It's what lets you go infinite.
Maybe... but going infinite every game is boring and "unfun". Training Grounds is often an early tutor for me (makes Overlord's toolbox approach a lot cheaper), and I don't think it's ever been targeted by removal.
As an aside, I don't think I've ever tutored for Mana Echoes (at least, not before turn 10+), even though it's the quickest way to "go infinite" (e.g. it doesn't need Training Grounds/Heartstone, Gemhide Sliver, Heart Sliver, Ashnod's Altar, or anything else; just the Queen and 2). If I draw into it, I end the game. Otherwise, I prefer to play for a while, using the Overlord for tutoring up answers + maintaining board control via stealing creatures.
Nobody wants to play against 40lands+30tutors+infinite-combo.dec.
Maybe... but going infinite every game is boring and "unfun". Training Grounds is often an early tutor for me (makes Overlord's toolbox approach a lot cheaper), and I don't think it's ever been targeted by removal.
As an aside, I don't think I've ever tutored for Mana Echoes (at least, not before turn 10+), even though it's the quickest way to "go infinite" (e.g. it doesn't need Training Grounds/Heartstone, Gemhide Sliver, Heart Sliver, Ashnod's Altar, or anything else; just the Queen and 2). If I draw into it, I end the game. Otherwise, I prefer to play for a while, using the Overlord for tutoring up answers + maintaining board control via stealing creatures.
Nobody wants to play against 40lands+30tutors+infinite-combo.dec.
Haven't had time to update my deck, but mine isn't near that... I like to go infinite with a lot of different combos. Even with tutors you don't guarantee yourself a tutor or training grounds every game.
I run Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Mystical Tutor, and Enlightened tutor. That's it.
I have fun with the deck and play it as a mix of a toolbox and what am I going to do this game.
Sometimes general damage, sometimes direct damage with Psionic, sometimes flying sliver swarms, sometimes Kozilek decimates the board. You never know.
Mine isn't even the most fine tuned deck, but it wins regularly in a competitive environment and is fun as all get out to play.
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I'm missing a couple of cards I'd like to add (Tooth and Nail, Natural Order, and All Suns' Dawn - the regular version of the latter is cheap, but I'm having a hard time tracking down a foil for a reasonable price). Anyway... this is the list I'm currently using.
1 Sliver Legion
Creatures (28)
2 Essence Sliver
3 Ward Sliver
4 Pulmonic Sliver
5 Amoeboid Changeling
6 Shifting Sliver
7 Synapse Sliver
8 Psionic Sliver
9 Synchronous Sliver
10 Crypt Sliver
11 Spectral Sliver
12 Toxin Sliver
13 Cairn Wanderer
14 Heart Sliver
15 Homing Sliver
16 Taurean Mauler
17 Magma Sliver
18 Fury Sliver
19 Gemhide Sliver
20 Root Sliver
21 Fungus Sliver
22 Might Sliver
23 Brood Sliver
24 Crystalline Sliver
25 Hibernation Sliver
26 Harmonic Sliver
27 Necrotic Sliver
28 Sliver Legion
29 Sliver Queen
Enchantments, Instants, Sorceries (22)
30 Eldrazi Conscription
31 Silence
32 Shields of Velis Vel
33 Training Grounds
34 Trickery Charm
35 Unnatural Selection
36 Wings of Velis Vel
37 Intruder Alarm
38 Demonic Tutor
39 Grim Discovery
40 Oversold Cemetery
41 Aphetto Dredging
42 Diabolic Tutor (foil 8th ed)
43 Blades of Velis Vel
44 Mana Echoes
45 Hypergenesis (to combo with Praetor's Counsel, esp after a Wrath/DoJ)
46 Prismatic Omen
47 Asceticism
48 Primal Command
49 Praetor's Counsel
50 Green Sun's Zenith
51 Conflux
52 AEther Vial
53 Prophetic Prism
54 Kaleidostone
55 Prismatic Lens
56 Coalition Relic
57 Darksteel Ingot
58 Urza's Incubator
59 Door of Destinies
60 Eldrazi Monument
61 Cryptic Gateway
62 Obelisk of Alara
Lands (38)
63 Jungle Shrine
64 Seaside Citadel
65 Vivid Meadow
66 Vivid Creek
67 Vivid Marsh
68 Vivid Crag
69 Vivid Grove
70 Mystic Gate
71 Sunken Ruins
72 Graven Cairns
73 Fire-Lit Thicket
74 Wooden Bastion
75 Fetid Heath
76 Cascade Bluffs
77 Twilight Mire
78 Rugged Prairie
79 Flooded Grove
80 Marsh Flats
81 Scalding Tarn
82 Verdant Catacombs
83 Arid Mesa
84 Misty Rainforest
85 Hallowed Fountain
86 Breeding Pool
87 Blood Crypt
88 Stomping Ground
89 Temple Garden
90 Ancient Ziggurat
91 Thran Quarry
92 Reflecting Pool
93 Exotic Orchard
94 Gemstone Caverns
95 Crystal Quarry
96 Unstable Frontier
97 Mutavault
98 Strip Mine
99 Tectonic Edge
100 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Temporal Isolation
2 Harsh Mercy
3 Brainstorm
4 Winged Sliver
5 Dream Fracture
6 Hinder
7 Revive the Fallen
8 Wound Reflection
9 Patriarch's Bidding
10 Virulent Sliver
11 Life from the Loam
12 Overrun (not necessary)
13 Voidslime
14 Sensei's Divining Top (Japanese)
15 Heartstone
16 Ashnod's Altar
17 Thran Dynamo
18 Gilded Lotus
19 Coat of Arms
20 Forbidden Orchard (sideboarded out for 1-on-1)
Surprisingly, for a 5-colour deck, mana-screw has yet to be an issue. The deck was designed for multiplayer, hence some potentially cooperative cards like the Velis Vel tribal instants and the Forbidden Orchard (which I sideboarded out for 1-on-1). But I've been playing it with my girlfriend (I was slivers for 3 games, then she has played the slivers for the last 8 or 9 games) against the following "heroic" deck (still a work in progress). So far the slivers have been cleaning up, often getting the commander out by turn 4 or 5 (via Coalition Relic, etc), and usually winning the game by turn 8 or 9 - usually with Shifting Sliver and Sliver Legion as the key players.
I'll summarize a couple of the games in the next post(s). Meanwhile, here's the equipment-heavy "heroic" deck list so far:
1 Rafiq of the Many
Creatures (31)
2 Serra Ascendant
3 Kitesail Apprentice
4 Hada Freeblade
5 Kor Spiritdancer
6 Stoneforge Mystic
7 Ondu Cleric
8 Armament Master
9 Kor Outfitter
10 Kazandu Blademaster
11 Kabira Evangel
12 Talus Paladin
13 Ranger of Eos (for tutoring Serra Ascendant + Hada Freeblade)
14 Jwari Shapeshifter
15 Umara Raptor
16 Sea Gate Loremaster
17 Seascape Aerialist
18 Harabaz Druid
19 Oran-Rief Survivalist
20 Vastwood Animist
21 Tajuru Archer
22 Oracle of Mul Daya
23 Joraga Bard
24 Graypelt Hunter
25 Turntimber Ranger
26 Primordial Sage
27 Qasali Pridemage
28 Knight of the Reliquary
29 Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer
30 Giltspire Avenger
31 Stoic Angel
32 Tolsimir Wolfblood
Planeswalkers (3)
33 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
34 Garruk Wildspeaker
35 Venser, the Sojourner
Enchantments, Sorceries, Instants (18)
36 Eldrazi Conscription (off-flavour, but wins games if attached to exalted + double-striking commander or flying + lifelinking + doublestriking + exalted Serra Ascendant)
37 Enlightened Tutor
38 Quest for the Holy Relic (used to get Sword of Kaldra or Argentum Armor in play + equipped)
39 Idyllic Tutor
40 Ghostway
41 Sigil of the New Dawn
42 Join the Ranks (not strong, but does trigger the other Allies x2)
43 Day of Judgment (would be sideboard but needed vs Slivers)
44 Marshal's Anthem
45 Mystical Tutor (often ends up finding another tutor, though...)
46 Repulse
47 Rite of Replication (usually to duplicate Kor Outfitter or an ally)
48 Cryptic Command (a bit expensive but very useful, especially for tapping slivers when Stoic Angel is in play)
49 Followed Footsteps (awesome with allies)
50 Worldly Tutor
51 Doubling Season (doubles counters on allies, and combos with Followed Footsteps, Rite of Replication, etc)
52 Sigil of the Nayan Gods (awesome on Kor Spiritdancer or the commander)
53 Bant Charm
54 Sol Ring
55 Dolem Gate (more appropriate for the sliver deck?)
56 Lightning Greaves
57 Loxodon Warhammer
58 Sword of Vengeance
59 Helm of Kaldra
60 Shield of Kaldra
61 Sword of Kaldra
62 Minion Reflector (awesome with allies, Kor Outfitter or Stoneforge Mystic)
63 Citanul Flute
64 Argentum Armor
65 Behemoth Sledge
Lands (35)
66 Sejiri Steppe
67 Mistveil Plains
68 Vivid Meadow
69 Vivid Creek
70 Bant Panorama
71 Seaside Citadel
72 Unstable Frontier
73 Razorverge Thicket
74 Seachrome Coast
75 Stirring Wildwood
76 Graypelt Refuge
77 Sejiri Refuge
78 Sunpetal Grove
79 Terramorphic Expanse
80 Evolving Wilds
81 Terrain Generator
82 Plains
83 Plains
84 Plains
85 Plains
86 Plains
87 Plains
88 Island
89 Island
90 Island
91 Island
92 Island
93 Island
94 Island
95 Forest
96 Forest
97 Forest
98 Forest
99 Forest
100 Forest
1 Second Sunrise
2 Gideon Jura
3 Tinker (banned?)
4 Gifts Ungiven (banned?)
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
6 Regrowth
7 Fauna Shaman
8 Evolution Charm
9 Gift of the Gargantuan
10 Elvish Piper (would be more useful with expensive creatures like Vigor and Pelakka Wurm, below)
11 Primitive Etchings
12 Asceticism
13 Wild Pair
14 Mana Reflection
15 Vigor
16 Pelakka Wurm
17 Hunting Grounds
18 Sensei's Divining Top
19 Whispersilk Cloak
20 Grappling Hook
The heroes now have 2 wins out of about a dozen games - both exploiting Serra Ascendant and KaltraTRON via Stoneforge Mystic, Kor Outfitter, and/or Armament Master. The deck also has most of the green/white/blue Allies, and I'd like to take more advantage of EOT effects with that deck, so I'll work in more boomerang-like instants including Otherworldly Journey, etc (Repulse is already in there). They have the added bonus of being temporary removal, but I'd try to save them for my own creatures whenever possible.
I might even swap out some of the weaker creatures for some of the blue ninjas from Kamigawa block, exploiting the Ninjutsu mechanic to re-cast the EOT creatures.
So far, I'm impressed with how well the Exalted mechanic works... especially if you can get Stoic Angel out to slow down your opponents' non-vigilant creatures. That way, you don't feel bad keeping lots of creatures behind and available to block.
I'm undecided if I should put Tezzeret in the main deck. His -X is awesome (can tutor up artifacts including equipment), but this deck doesn't have much use for his +1. Well, I guess he could tutor for Sol Ring on his first turn, and then that would give him a target for his +1. Unfortunately it and Citanul Flute are the only 2 targets for his +1 currently in the deck, and using his -X to tutor for a 5 cmc artifact is pushing it.
Thirty-five lands in the "heroic" deck may be a little low, but it hasn't been a problem yet with so many cheap creatures and ways of cheating in equipment. It could stand some fetch lands and better dual lands (e.g. shock lands, maybe more man-lands), but I currently only own one of each of those in the sliver deck. Similarly, all my "Mirrodin" swords (Sword of Body and Mind, Sword of Feast and Famine, Sword of Light and Darkness, Sword of Fire and Ice) are currently in other decks. I should definitely add the last 3 of those.
And what about Worldslayer? It could come in handy in certain situations (especially vs slivers). Unfortunately, I don't think it could it be combo'ed with Ghostway (?); e.g. can you do combat damage with a creature equipped with Worldslayer, and then exile creatures before the resulting "whenever" wipe effect resolves, or would that involve preventing the damage (removing the attacking creature before combat damage is assigned) and thus not triggering the effect? Basically, could the stack look like:
[top]
- combat damage assigned to a player
- Ghostway's exile effect
- Worldslayer's wipe effect
[bottom]
It doesn't seem like it would work.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
- Heart Sliver on turn 2 + swung for 1;
- cast an artifact (Coalition Relic?) on turn 3 + swung with - Heart Sliver for 1;
- dropped Essence Sliver on turn 3 + swung with it for 3 with lifelink;
- dropped Brood Sliver on turn 4 + swung with it and Essence for 6 with lifelink (unblocked) and got 2 sliver tokens;
- got Sliver Overlord into play on turn 6, swung with it and Brood and Essence, but they were blocked by wolves (see below)...
- then used Blades of Velis Vel + Sliver Overlord's ability to steal Master of the Wild (which had been pumping out wolf token chump blockers for the past few turns), making him a 5/3 with lifelink and the ability to generate sliver tokens (if unblocked) and swung with him that turn!
- got a wolf token from Master of the Wild Hunt, dropped Sliver Legion, and swung with everybody (except the wolf - summoning sickness) for the win.
From her perspective, she got Fauna Shaman in play on turn 2, used her to find Harabaz Druid to fix/ramp mana, then got Elspeth, Knight-Errant in play on turn 4, Master of the Wild Hunt on turn 5 (?), and kept blocking with wolves + soldier tokens. Then she used Enlightened Tutor to find Sword of Kaldra and equipped it on Harabaz Druid (no other creatures available) ... but couldn't survive the onslaught after I stole her wolf generating engine.
After that game, I completely rebuilt the "heroic" deck, including switching commanders to get some blue cards in there.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
Meanwhile, by turn 8 she had Shifting Sliver, Root Sliver (again), Toxin Sliver, Pulmonic Sliver, and Sliver Overlord in play, and had just used her commander to tutor Sliver Legion to her hand (!). I had lots of creatures in play (including 3 Spirit tokens she'd given me via Forbidden Orchard), but they were useless to me, as Shifting Sliver was kicking my butt (as it usually does). It was clearly the one to remove, so I swung with Hada Freeblade as an exalted double-striker and destroyed Shifting Sliver via his Argentum Armor. Unfortunately, I'd completely forgotten about Pulmonic Sliver's second ability: Shifting Sliver was merely placed on the top of her deck, and of course would return to play next turn. Doh!! She let Hada go unblocked for 24 damage, leaving her at about 5 life. Then she played BOTH Shifting Sliver and Sliver Legion, and swung with all the others (Root, Toxin, Pulmonic, and Overlord - all unblockable) for a combined 15+(4x5)=35 damage, which was more than lethal!
So close, yet so far.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
Gref and I have been working for a long time on building an EDH sliver deck that runs smoothly. He and I ended with different decklists, and ATM I'm trying a build that's mostly the design of someone else's... and, my fellow sliverphile, it works beautifully
I'd rather not bore you with comments and ask you to just refer to the link on my sig, but I can't help but saying that apparently the same cards pop time and time and again when it comes to building slivers Since I've spent months building it and playing it, I thought I might as well share some of my experiences with a comrade:
- I also used to run Urza's Incubator, Door of Destinies and Eldrazi Monument, but ended up ditching them for different reasons... I found Incubator was only useful if drawn on your opening hand and not worth tutoring up, while the other two had enormous targets painted over them and did not last long on the table. IDK about your meta, but my table is just plain scared silly of slivers and anything that buffs them gets nuked. Disproportionately so.
- I found Training Grounds to be another card that looked great on paper, but was tricky to make the best out of it on practice. Again, not worth tutoring up IMHO.
- You made me want to kick myself for not remembering about Intruder Alarm... I ordered it, the order never made it to my mailbox, and totally forgot to re-order it when I got refunded. Pigeon crap. Fact is, what would I ax to make room for it?
- Amoeboid Changeling and Unnatural Selection just didn't cut it. They won me an AWESOME game on Cockatrice (I stole a Phage), but 85% of the time I didn't get any returns from that investment. I found these slots were better used with ramp sorceries or board sweeps.
- I tried Green Sun's Zenith too, but I found the 'green creature' limitation to be crippling. Chord of Calling and Wargate are better candidates for that position IMHO, the latter being capable of fetching you any one permanent.
- What are your experiences with Cryptic Gateway? I axed it after finding that, as my sliver count dwindled, so did its usefulness. It was an absolute monster when I ran 39 creatures, but, as of now...
- Considering that one of the first slivers you'll want to play is the Crystalline, I can't help but saying that I'm confused as to the purpose of all the Velis Vel spells. If you ran Peer Pressure along the Shields, that'd make a lot of sense (and strike fear into your opponents' minds, too)... again, what are your experiences?
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
Surprisingly, I've found Sliver Queen to be pretty useless... but that's mostly due to the deck I'm playing against and the fact that games rarely make it past turn 7 or 8; no need to combo for the win. I cut Green Sun's Zenith and will definitely consider Wargate as an alternative. I also added Natural Order (to sac Harmonic Sliver or even a Gemhide Sliverin favour of Sliver Legion late in the game) and Survival of the Fittest, and I just added All Suns' Dawn and Tooth and Nail by cutting Hypergenesis (it has cost me a couple of games so far) and Praetor's Counsel (too expensive, esp so much green).
I'm still running Cryptic Gateway. It's terrific for cheating in Sliver Legion and Fury Sliver (if I don't have another way in hand). The number-one killer so far is Shifting Sliver. It's always an early tutor - right after getting the required protection, be it shroud or whatever. It's involved in > 90% of wins, and is rarely on the battlefield for a loss. Basically it allows Sliver Overlord to swing away, and once buffed up, he usually only needs two hits to kill.
I don't have time right now but I'll certainly look at your list and type out my revised deck list soon. I even tried a variation where I brought in 3 planeswalkers just to see how it would go: Sarkhan Vol (extra boost + more creature stealing), Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas (mainly to find mana-ramping artifacts), and Nicol Bolas (just 'cause I've got the mana base for him). Needs more play testing though, especially multi-player!
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
- Mayael the Anima
- Sen Triplets
- Thraximundar
Not a particularly special starting hand... but my second draw was a Sylvan Library, which I played immediately and was followed by a Phyrexian Arena. The only thing I was stopped from playing was Sterling Grove (countered), but it turned out to be an excellent distraction since I cast Mana Reflection with no problems at all immediately afterward. I didn't really expect it to survive a whole turn, but it did... and then, an entwined Tooth and Nail to fetch Crystalline Sliver and Gemhide Sliver. Again I didn't expect them to survive a turn, shroud or not, but since they did survive I just put the Overlord into play and it was game. I'll leave the combo machine details for you to imagine
Mind you, it was probably a ridiculously lucky match, especially since I got to keep the best 2 cards out of 4 on each draw step very early on. And I don't know how well would this build fare 1v1, it's built for multiplayer free-for-all. (In the name of everything holy, don't give me a control deck to support me in a team game or it will all be over very fast.)
Okay, you and I go for different winning conditions and strategies, probably because of meta; anything with even the slightest whiff of creature stealing on it got nuked back to the Dinosaur Era, so I had to cut it entirely. Whenever I win, it's generally because of either massive damage (not just general damage) or infinite slivers (Mana Echoes + Sliver Queen). I used to run Liliana Vess for tutoring only, but the current build just doesn't need it, and I'm not really very skilled on discard strategies. I'm sorely tempted to try tossing Garruk Wildspeaker into the mix. I really, really like Praetor's Counsel, but, as you point out, it takes a bucketload of mana to play. Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker didn't work for me at all, it got literally torn to pieces every time it entered play, but again, that's probably my meta. The Thraximundar deck I played against today made great use of it, but it had counters and removal to back it up, so beware of running Nicol if you aren't going to ship cards to protect it.
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
Here's the current list. It's always changing; (*) represents recent changes and/or cards I'm testing. Numbers on the left are CMC.
5 Sliver Overlord
Slivers (22)
2 Amoeboid Changeling
2 Crypt Sliver
2 Heart Sliver
2 Gemhide Sliver
2 Crystalline Sliver
2 Hibernation Sliver
3 Homing Sliver (*)
3 Harmonic Sliver
3 Necrotic Sliver
4 Shifting Sliver
4 Essence Sliver
4 Toxin Sliver (*)
4 Magma Sliver
4 Root Sliver
5 Ward Sliver
5 Synapse Sliver
5 Psionic Sliver
5 Brood Sliver
5 Pulmonic Sliver
5 Sliver Queen
5 Sliver Legion
6 Fury Sliver
Instants and Sorceries (16)
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Shields of Velis Vel
1 Trickery Charm
2 Arcane Denial (*)
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Survival of the Fittest
3 Dream Fracture (*)
3 Harsh Mercy
4 Aphetto Dredging
4 Channel the Suns
4 Diabolic Tutor
4 Peer Pressure
5 All Suns' Dawn
5 Primal Command
5 World at War
7 Tooth and Nail
Artifacts (16)
1 AEther Vial
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring (*)
2 Kaleidostone
2 Prophetic Prism
2 Prismatic Lens
2 Sphere of the Suns
3 Coalition Relic
3 Crucible of Worlds (*)
3 Darksteel Ingot
4 Defense Grid (*)
4 Door of Destinies
5 Cryptic Gateway
5 Urza's Incubator
6 Mycosynth Lattice (*)
7 Memnarch (*)
1 Training Grounds
2 Prismatic Omen
2 Survival of the Fittest
2 Trace of Abundance (*)
2 Unnatural Selection
3 Intruder Alarm
5 Asceticism
5 Mana Echoes
Lands (37)
0 Vivid Crag
0 Vivid Creek
0 Vivid Grove
0 Vivid Marsh
0 Vivid Meadow
0 Marsh Flats
0 Arid Mesa
0 Scalding Tarn
0 Misty Rainforest
0 Hallowed Fountain
0 Watery Grave
0 Blood Crypt
0 Stomping Ground
0 Verdant Catacombs
0 Temple Garden
0 Mystic Gate
0 Sunken Ruins
0 Graven Cairns
0 Fire-Lit Thicket
0 Wooded Bastion
0 Fetid Heath
0 Cascade Bluffs
0 Twilight Mire
0 Rugged Prairie
0 Flooded Grove
0 Jungle Shrine
0 Seaside Citadel
0 Ancient Ziggurat
0 Thran Quarry
0 Forbidden Orchard
0 Reflecting Pool
0 Exotic Orchard
0 Crystal Quarry
0 Gemstone Caverns
0 Mutavault
0 Strip Mine
0 Tectonic Edge
1 Virulent Sliver (*)
2 Quick Sliver (*)
2 Ghostflame Sliver
2 Blades of Velis Vel (*)
2 Wings of Velis Vel (*)
2 Grim Discovery (*)
2 Oversold Cemetery (*)
2 Hivestone
3 Taurean Mauler
4 Natural Order (*)
4 Fungus Sliver (*)
5 Eldrazi Monument
5 Patriarch's Bidding (*)
5 Synchronous Sliver
5 Doubling Season
6 Obelisk of Alara (*)
7 All is Dust
7 Titanic Ultimatum
7 Cruel Ultimatum
8 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
With the release of the new pre-con decks, I'll obviously add a Command Tower, and might also replace the "vivid" lands with basics (so I'm not screwed by Collective Voyage) and also sub in the Onslaught fetch lands (instead of some Lorwyn-block filter lands?) to make better use of Crucible of Worlds.
*edit*
Against a meta that uses more wrath, I would definitely swap in Patriarch's Bidding and Oversold Cemetery. And if I wanted to do some wrathing myself (besides Harsh Mercy, which doesn't work against other tribal decks), I'd run All is Dust with Ghostflame Sliver. And if I wanted more teamwork-type effects, I'd put the two other Velis Vel cards back in, but lately I've found that Shields of Velis Vel (which converts ALL of a target player's creatures for W) + Unnatural Selection + Amoeboid Changeling + Peer Pressure gives me plenty of creature stealing. And the recent addition of Memnarch allows me to steal artifacts, and can do some creature stealing himself if Sliver Overlord gets tucked or (gasp) stolen.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
I'm also still flirting with Memnarch. I keep taking him out, then bringing him back. He's no good in 1-vs-1 or small multiplayer, but gets better the bigger the game. And I discovered Vedalken AEthermage - a horrible card that actually does something in this deck. It can bounce a doomed sliver or allow reuse of an EtB effect (Harmonic Sliver), or it can be "cycled" to find Memnarch or, if Sliver Overlord isn't around for some reason, any of the changelings (Amoeboid Changeling, Taurean Mauler, Mirror Entity, Blades of Velis Vel, Shields of Velis Vel). But I'm sure there will be times where I'd rather just have Frenetic Sliver (e.g. facing a sweeper with 1000 sliver tokens in play) and Conflux, so they're on the "chop this next" list.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
I only run 6 fetches (1 allied and 5 enemy) but run 10x Duals and 10x shocks. Mana base is never a problem. I run more mana rocks though. In multiplayer, felwar stone is very good. I hardly see it in lists. The only big time money rock I don't run is Mana Crypt. It might help, but not as much as the pricetag would hurt. lol
I need to get an updated list.
This deck is a money pit! lol
I'll bookmark this thread so I can update my list and post.
Oh, and if you have 1000 sliver tokens, you should have won the game already.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
UWGRBSliver Queen Control p=8329402#post8329402
RBUWG Slivers http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=363247 RETIRED
G Omnath http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7428848#post7428848
Legacy
0 Cheerios 0http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7443850#post7443850
I only have a few of the ABUR duals and they're in other decks (legacy; one Tropical Island in an Edric deck). I haven't had problems with mana for a while, and the life lost to shock lands doesn't make much difference. In fact I recently cut some of the artifact mana fixers (Prophetic Prism, Sphere of the Suns, Kaleidostone) because I've felt I have too many. I somehow forgot about Fellwar Stone, though. It's the artifact equivalent of Exotic Orchard, which is pretty good in a big game. I remember considering it once, but somehow it didn't get included. I might have to dig one out of a box.
Re: 1000 sliver tokens, I'd literally just executed the Mana Echoes combo and announced I'd stop at 1000 (hasty) 1/1 sliver tokens. Then I said "Declare attackers" and an opponent said "In response... Volcanic Fallout". I didn't have the coloured mana to tutor up and play Quick Sliver and Sliver Legion (or Psionic Sliver, etc) in response, so I lost all my tokens. Oh well. Next time...
I am running Training Grounds. I don't bother with Heartstone because the former is better with Sliver Overlord.
Foil Sliver Queen was a typo (all the other slivers are foils and I got carried away with Ctrl+V). Unfortunately the resevered list / reprint policy prevents us from having a foil of her.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
No, run hearstone too!
It's a 99 card singleton deck, you need to make sure you have the best chance you can at getting that discounted activation on the queen. It's what lets you go infinite.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Maybe... but going infinite every game is boring and "unfun". Training Grounds is often an early tutor for me (makes Overlord's toolbox approach a lot cheaper), and I don't think it's ever been targeted by removal.
As an aside, I don't think I've ever tutored for Mana Echoes (at least, not before turn 10+), even though it's the quickest way to "go infinite" (e.g. it doesn't need Training Grounds/Heartstone, Gemhide Sliver, Heart Sliver, Ashnod's Altar, or anything else; just the Queen and 2). If I draw into it, I end the game. Otherwise, I prefer to play for a while, using the Overlord for tutoring up answers + maintaining board control via stealing creatures.
Nobody wants to play against 40lands+30tutors+infinite-combo.dec.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
Haven't had time to update my deck, but mine isn't near that... I like to go infinite with a lot of different combos. Even with tutors you don't guarantee yourself a tutor or training grounds every game.
I run Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Mystical Tutor, and Enlightened tutor. That's it.
I have fun with the deck and play it as a mix of a toolbox and what am I going to do this game.
Sometimes general damage, sometimes direct damage with Psionic, sometimes flying sliver swarms, sometimes Kozilek decimates the board. You never know.
Mine isn't even the most fine tuned deck, but it wins regularly in a competitive environment and is fun as all get out to play.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB