[EDH] Azusa, Lost but Seeking (MTGO)

  • #1
    Please read the thread before posting.

    BweeBwee's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    General:
    1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking

    Land Search:
    1 Kodama's Reach
    1 Seek the Horizons
    1 Far Wanderings
    1 Deep Reconnaissance
    1 Evolution Charm
    1 Mulch
    1 Civic Wayfinder
    1 Sylvan Scrying
    1 Explosive Vegetation
    1 Hunting Wilds
    1 Krosan Tusker
    1 Journey of Discovery
    1 Armillary Sphere

    Card Advantage/Quality:
    1 Jayemdae Tome
    1 Staff of Domination
    1 Illuminated Folio
    1 Journeyer's Kite
    1 Citanul Flute
    1 Harmonize
    1 Citanul Woodreaders
    1 Primordial Sage
    1 Deadwood Treefolk
    1 Mind's Eye
    1 Candles of Leng
    1 Restock
    1 Horn of Greed
    1 Sensei's Divining Top

    Mana Doubling:
    1 Extraplanar Lens
    1 Mana Reflection
    1 Vernal Bloom

    Utility:
    1 Indrik Stomphowler
    1 Wickerbough Elder
    1 Nantuko Vigilante
    1 Mystic Melting
    1 Woodfall Primus
    1 Duplicant
    1 Tornado Elemental
    1 Silklash Spider
    1 Squall Line
    1 Carven Caryatid
    1 Traproot Kami
    1 Arashi, the Sky Asunder
    1 Rending Vines
    1 Primal Order
    1 Lifegift

    Good Stuff:
    1 Rude Awakening
    1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
    1 Seedborn Muse
    1 Verdeloth the Ancient
    1 Verdant Force
    1 Howl of the Night Pack
    1 Centaur Glade
    1 Tooth and Nail

    Lands:
    1 Jungle Basin
    1 Gruul Turf
    1 Simic Growth Chamber
    1 Selesnya Sanctuary
    1 Golgari Rotfarm
    1 Sapseep Forest
    1 Urza's Factory
    1 Temple of the False God
    1 Mosswort Bridge
    1 Reliquary Tower
    1 Tranquil Thicket
    35 Forest

    So I posted a version of this a while ago, but I've been playing it more recently and there are a number of changes I made so I figured I ought to post a new thread.

    Anyway, so my game plan in this deck is pretty straightforward:
    1. Stay alive.
    2. Get a lot of lands.
    3. Draw a lot of cards.
    4. Win eventually (usually rude awakening into kamahl to kill everyone remaining).

    I want all my cards to contribute to this game plan in some fashion (most cards can be somehow shoehorned into the first objective, but I'd like the majority to fit into the second and third ones).

    Things to keep in mind:
    1. This is online, so don't suggest things that aren't available.
    2. I am on a budget online, so while obviously eternal witness would be good, it costs like 4-5 tix online, so please refrain from suggesting it and similarly priced cards.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by BweeBwee: 7/5/2009 12:17:46 AM
    Signature by kingcobweb


  • #2
    You can play off-color lands?

    Time of Need is a pretty nice way to search out Kamahl.
  • #3
    I thought off-color lands were ok, since the off color was counted as colorless.
  • #4
    You can't play any cards that have a mana symbol in them that isn't in your general's mana cost (however they've adapted this rule to allow you to play Memnarch as your general so maybe it's now considering the mana cost on the general's rules text). So yea, those Ravnica block lands are not legal.
    Is Skyshroud Claim not available online?
    Have you considered Crucible of Worlds/Strip Mine/Wasteland (again I don't know what's available online and how much they cost)?
    Sylvan Library for more card advantage (great with all the land fetching you do).
    You might want some artifacts (other than Duplicant) for utility... stuff like Pentavus, Triskelavus, etc. Actually these are going to get worse when M10 comes in, however you can still have eternal blockers with Pentavus (make a token, block, put token back on to Pent before damage). Trisk can just offer you some removal in a color that desperately needs it.
    Oh, you know what? This could be a fun guy: Feral Hydra! And you should be able to get him cheap too!
    Planar Portal is another great card if you can get your hands on one.
    So what are the weaknesses of the deck? Pro Green really stick it to ya (like Sphinx of the Steel Wind)? Do you utilize all your mana every turn, or do you find yourself having little to play on some turns (i.e. not enough business spells)?
    Check out my sale/buy/trade list:
    *Mayreturn*

    I have some EDH cards and rare Magic basic lands (APAC, EURO, ARENA, etc) so message me if you're looking.

    Number of members banned after I posted a BTR: 7 Mad

    Looking for honest buyers, sellers, and traders. Grin
  • #5
    Off-color lands are allowed online.

    Skyshroud claim and strip mine are not available online. Crucible is available, but wasteland is prohibitively expensive so there's not much point without that and strip mine.

    Sylvan library is a possibility. At one point I played grim poppet, but I think duplicant is enough, since I really just wanted some removal I could search for with tooth or flute.

    I had feral hydra in at one point, but it was cut since it was never really something I wanted to spend my mana on.

    Planar portal seems like a pretty good idea, right now I have replaced the primal order in the original post with a tower of fortunes, but if that doesn't work, I might try planar portal instead.

    The weaknesses of the deck seem to be not drawing my card advantage artifacts, or getting all my artifacts and enchantments destroyed. I've also lost a few times to magister sphinx, but I don't know much I can do about that... I typically utilize most of my mana as long as I have one or two card drawing artifacts out. One card I really need to get my hands on is thran tome.
    Signature by kingcobweb


  • #6
    Fastbond + Crucible of World + Stripmine seems very good and flavorful here.
  • #7
    Rowen and Gaea's Touch would both be quite nice in this deck.
  • #8
    Fastbond is band
  • #9
    Hey guys, while I appreciate the suggestions, it'd be nice if you read the thread before posting.

    I've tried Rowen, and it was a bit too inconsistent for my liking.
    Signature by kingcobweb


  • #10
    Vinelasher Kudzu and Budoka Gardener fit in well with your general.

    Also, I suggest Gauntlet of Power for every mono-colored deck that doesn't already play it.
    My 540 card unpowered cube:
    http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1959
  • #11
    I had both the kudzu and the gardener in the build at one point, but I found that they were just a bit too threatening, and thus got killed before they could really accomplish anything. I'd rather have my opponents' removal directed at other players' permanents.

    Gauntlet of power is certainly a consideration, and is probably something I should try to get my hands on at some point.

    EDIT: By the way, to continue my comment from another post,
    Tower of Fortunes has turned out to be really good. I may have to find another slot to fit the planar portal in.
    Signature by kingcobweb


  • #12
    While I understand that it is nice to have removal aimed elsewhere, you still need to have some threats so that when pieces you want to stick hit the board, they actually stay. I really like the idea behind the deck though. Any reason you couldn't fit in Eternal Witness? Also, me personally I really like Hall of Gemstone in mono-green for multiplayer EDH since it can really help screw over multicolor generals. City of Solitude can give you a chance to make a big play on your turn uninterrupted.
    "You are what you pretend to be, so you must be careful what you pretend to be" from Mother Night

    First posted EDH deck: Hakim, Beardmaster
  • #13
    Quote from Prismetrix
    While I understand that it is nice to have removal aimed elsewhere, you still need to have some threats so that when pieces you want to stick hit the board, they actually stay. I really like the idea behind the deck though. Any reason you couldn't fit in Eternal Witness? Also, me personally I really like Hall of Gemstone in mono-green for multiplayer EDH since it can really help screw over multicolor generals. City of Solitude can give you a chance to make a big play on your turn uninterrupted.


    Thanks for the input.

    To elaborate on my reasoning for not including cards that are purely threats, the way the deck is designed is such that the threats are either resilient to spot removal, fulfill multiple purposes, or win immediately. So I am not concerned about my opponent's having spare removal, especially when it is often the case that they will just use it on other players' more threatening cards before I even get around to playing threatening cards.

    It serves a dual purpose. One, I am not throwing away cards for no reason. When I play a guy and they kill it, I haven't accomplished anything (this is obviously only relevant in multiplayer, which is what this deck is designed for). The other is that people tend to try and use their removal at a reasonable pace, so if I wait until the very late game to deploy my threats, it's likely that they will have used their removal spells on other threats, which also serves to help keep me alive.

    Eternal witness is addressed in the opening post, near the bottom.

    Hall of gemstone is good in some situations, but it kind of makes me stick out as the enemy against multicolor generals, since often they will still be able to cast some spells, and the hall preventing them from playing certain cards will only increase the likelihood of them attacking me. Basically I don't think it accomplishes enough to justify the threat it produces, since it doesn't cripple my opponents enough to actually be able to defend itself.

    City of solitude isn't bad, but it has some antisynergy with my multitude of artifacts with activated abilities, as well as centaur glade and my instants.
    Signature by kingcobweb


  • #14
    I'm just afraid that if you aren't doing anything to establish a board presence, people are just going to go after you as easy pickings. Sorry about the Witness, I forgot the whole MTGO thing while typing. The two enchantments I suggested were more for some protection for when you want to do an alpha strike with all your lands and such. Just hold em until you need them. I think I only counted 4 instants so it doesn't hurt you as much. And as another fatty finisher, Molimo plays nicely with Azusa. Oh yeah, I think you need to fix some of your lands. EDH rules say no non-general mana symbols so the Simic Chamber and Golgari Farm and the like have to go.
    "You are what you pretend to be, so you must be careful what you pretend to be" from Mother Night

    First posted EDH deck: Hakim, Beardmaster
  • #15
    Checked your decklist, but skipped the replies. I'd recommend adding Yavimaya Elder as it provides good card advantage and fits perfectly with your general. Not sure what I'd take out, but I'd try to fit it in. Maybe Deep Reconnaissance as it's a little slow and not the best mana excel?


    twitter.com/bccarlso decks: Rasputin, Chainer, ChildCrusher, Kiki, Maelstrom, Thrax, Zedruu
  • #16
    Quote from Prismetrix
    I'm just afraid that if you aren't doing anything to establish a board presence, people are just going to go after you as easy pickings. Sorry about the Witness, I forgot the whole MTGO thing while typing. The two enchantments I suggested were more for some protection for when you want to do an alpha strike with all your lands and such. Just hold em until you need them. I think I only counted 4 instants so it doesn't hurt you as much. And as another fatty finisher, Molimo plays nicely with Azusa. Oh yeah, I think you need to fix some of your lands. EDH rules say no non-general mana symbols so the Simic Chamber and Golgari Farm and the like have to go.


    The "no non-general mana symbols" rule only applies to casting costs on MTGO. For example, he could play Bringer of the Green Dawn in his deck but not Oversoul of Dusk.
    My 540 card unpowered cube:
    http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1959
  • #17
    Molimo was in here at one point as well, but the fact that all he is is a fatty (and one that costs 7 at that) makes it less appealing, since it is still not difficult to deal with.

    Yavimaya elder would be nice if it was online. Of course if you had read more than the decklist, you might have realized that I wouldn't have access to it.

    While I certainly appreciate input, it would be really nice if people would pay even the slightest bit of attention to issues that have already been addressed not only in the opening post, but multiple times within the thread itself.
    Signature by kingcobweb


  • #18
    Thought I'd post my update, as you can imagine, zendikar has had a very positive impact on this deck. At the moment, I would like to fit another forest in the deck, but I can't decide on what to cut. Any advice on that front, or any suggestions are welcome. I am aware of lotus cobra, and that it would be good in here, but he will probably be too expensive, at least while he is still hyped.

    BweeBwee's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Lands:
    33 Forest
    1 Gruul Turf
    1 Simic Growth Chamber
    1 Golgari Rotfarm
    1 Selesnya Sanctuary
    1 Jungle Basin
    1 Temple of the False God
    1 Sapseep Forest
    1 Urza's Factory
    1 Tranquil Thicket
    1 Reliquary Tower

    Land Search/Acceleration/Whatever:
    1 Oracle of Mul Daya
    1 Frontier Guide
    1 Khalni Heart Expedition
    1 Khalni Gem
    1 Armillary Sphere
    1 Journey of Discovery
    1 Kodama's Reach
    1 Seek the Horizon
    1 Evolution Charm
    1 Explosive Vegetation
    1 Hunting Wilds
    1 Sylvan Scrying
    1 Harrow
    1 Krosan Tusker
    1 Civic Wayfinder
    1 Mana Reflection
    1 Vernal Bloom
    1 Extraplanar Lens

    Card Advantage/Quality Artifacts:
    1 Staff of Domination
    1 Jayemdae Tome
    1 Journeyer's Kite
    1 Citanul Flute
    1 Tower of Fortunes
    1 Mind's Eye
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Horn of Greed
    1 Candles of Leng
    1 Illuminated Folio

    Business spells and utility:
    1 Rude Awakening
    1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
    1 Primordial Sage
    1 Tooth and Nail
    1 Rampaging Baloths
    1 Grazing Gladeheart
    1 Lifegift
    1 Verdeloth the Ancient
    1 Scute Mob
    1 Tornado Elemental
    1 Seedborn Muse
    1 Howl of the Night Pack
    1 Harmonize
    1 Indrik Stomphowler
    1 Wickerbough Elder
    1 Mystic Melting
    1 Rending Vines
    1 Restock
    1 Squall Line
    1 Centaur Glade
    1 Duplicant
    1 Deadwood Treefolk
    1 Citanul Woodreaders
    1 Silklash Spider
    1 Carven Caryatid
    1 Mold Shambler
    1 Woodfall Primus
    1 Traproot Kami

    General:
    1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking


    Any input is welcome, although it would be appreciated if you read the thread, or at the very least the opening post before responding (i.e. don't recommend cards not on MTGO, don't recommend cards that are very expensive on MTGO, don't tell me I can't use the ravnica bouncelands, and don't recommend cards that have already been recommended and rejected in the thread).

    EDIT:
    Just some cards I'm thinking about adding, let me know what your experiences with them are, and if you would recommend adding them, what you think you might cut for them:
    (I already run civic wayfinder and like him, so basically I'm just asking for a recommendation on where to find a slot for this guy)
    Last edited by BweeBwee: 10/28/2009 8:22:38 PM
    Signature by kingcobweb


  • #19
    Hi Bweebwee,

    I have an Azusa deck you can read about here: http://forum.dragonhighlander.net/EDH_Forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2939&p=34289&hilit=Azusa#p34289

    You absolutely have to run Cloudstone Curio. Cloudstone Curio is just insane with multiple land drops. In multiple games I had 3 forest & Azusa in play and had a wood elves in hand, no more land. Pretty slow start but the curio let me bounce a tapped forest and replay it, bouncing another to replay it and another netting me essentially all 3 land drops off a zero land hand.

    Mix in Aluren and you have infinite land drops with Azusa & any small cc dude. Horn of Greed gives you all the draw you need etc. Here's my current list:


    Zimagic's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Land
    35 Forest



    If you have any questions, let me know.
    Last edited by Zimagic: 10/29/2009 8:22:51 AM
  • #20
    Acidic Slime is very hot in my experience - I would run it.

    And also, on the subject of being rude to everyone trying to give you advice ...
    1) Not everyone has ever even seen MTGO.
    How are we supposed to know what is / isn't on it?
    Let alone how many "tix" something costs ...

    2) Really, just because the online implementation is glitchy and lets you play cards that are banned by your choice of general doesn't mean you should whine when people tell you this.
    This isn't the "MTGO Commander" forum, it's the EDH forum ;-)
    We play by EDH rules, and we build decks by them.

    But as for advice, all I can really give is that the slime is awesome.
    As is Cloudstone Curio ... though I've never used it with land, I can see how it'd work well with Asuza.

    EDIT: Oh, and Ant Queen is fun too. She has quite a big target, but she's only 5 mana for a 5/5 and they get 1 turn to take her out before everyone just has to give up and accept a board full of ants.
    EDH: The only format where you're going to see someone put 5 token copies of Spellskite into play
  • #21
    Quote from purple_pixie
    Acidic Slime is very hot in my experience - I would run it.

    And also, on the subject of being rude to everyone trying to give you advice ...
    1) Not everyone has ever even seen MTGO.
    How are we supposed to know what is / isn't on it?
    Let alone how many "tix" something costs ...

    2) Really, just because the online implementation is glitchy and lets you play cards that are banned by your choice of general doesn't mean you should whine when people tell you this.
    This isn't the "MTGO Commander" forum, it's the EDH forum ;-)
    We play by EDH rules, and we build decks by them.

    But as for advice, all I can really give is that the slime is awesome.
    As is Cloudstone Curio ... though I've never used it with land, I can see how it'd work well with Asuza.

    EDIT: Oh, and Ant Queen is fun too. She has quite a big target, but she's only 5 mana for a 5/5 and they get 1 turn to take her out before everyone just has to give up and accept a board full of ants.


    I'm sorry if you think I'm being rude, but if you read the thread, you would know that I specified in the opening post several parameters, which were subsequently ignored by several of the posters who responded. The same issue even came up within a few posts (the off color lands). People suggested multiple cards which were not online. It's not that hard to check if something is online, and online prices are not too far off from real life, so you should have a reasonable idea of what is expensive and what is not (like fetchlands would obviously be good, but as you can guess, are expensive).

    Also, if you read my responses, you would see that I am always thanking people for their input, and at first, I tried to put it politely when people would say things that were already addressed in the opening post, or in the thread responses. Serisously, the thread is not that long, it's not that hard to read, at least the opening post.

    Anyway, with regard to content.

    The cloudstone curio suggestion is something that I've thought about, and I would probably do it if aluren was cheaper online, as is, I don't think it's worth playing without aluren. It's a good idea though.

    From your list, I see a few things that might be good additions, like the planar portal that I mentioned earlier in the thread. How good is nature's spiral? Seems a bit underpowered by not being able to get back good spells.

    It seems like a number of the cards you are running are dependant on the aluren/curio synergies to be worth it, like elvish visonary, elvish pioneer, and wood elves, as the 1/1 bodies I haven't found to be worth the effects, even if they are technically card advantage in the case of the visonary and wood elves.

    I am also curious about a few other things in your list, namely only 38 lands. I like to have enough lands such that I can play azusa on turn 3 and immediately play 2 more lands, so that the next turn I can immediately start playing cards that get me a lot of lands to build up for card drawing engines. I think I would want to play at least 42, and my previous build ran 45.

    There are also some cards that I'm curious about:
    Rites of Flourishing - seems like it gives your opponents too much advantage, when usually you don't have too much trouble playing out all the lands in your hand
    Doubling season - maybe it fits better in your build, but I can't see it being anything but win more in mine at least
    Helix pinnacle - seems like it will either do nothing, or make you a huge target
    Hall of gemstone - Have you found the disruption to be good enough, but not to the extent where it makes you a public enemy?
    Weird harvest - seems like it will often help your opponents more than you, especially when they can search up answer creatures
    Gauntlet of power - I guess since I'm playing extraplanar lens already, I shouldn't be too worried about giving opponents extra mana, I probably ought to run this
    Akroma's Memorial - Do you think the deck benefits enough from this? Maybe the pro black pro red is enough, and I guess vigilance and first strike... and flying... and haste, well I guess I should maybe run this too. I'm just afraid that it won't have enough impact on its own, and is a dead card early game. Do you think the late game benefits outweigh that?
    Dryad Arbor - I don't know if the vulnerability to sweepers and essentially coming into play tapped is worth the 1/1 creature. I guess it works well in your build with curio/aluren.


    Yeah, I think I will probably have to fit acidic slime in there. I already run wickerbough elder, stomphowler, and mold shambler, all of which I like. I already cut the nantuko vigilante slot for shambler, who I like because he can also take out planeswalkers, but the slime also seems good, I'm just not sure where I can fit him in. I also already run mystic melting and rending vines, and I value the cantrip over the creature because of sweepers and helping me hit more land drops. I don't know if there's really a place for him, although blowing up lands can also be useful.

    Ant queen also seems like it would be pretty good, since with this deck, it's not hard to get to the point where you can play the queen and have enough mana open to make a good chunk of tokens even if she is answered immediately. As for what to cut for it, I'm thinking carven caryatid may be unecessary since the format is typically not that aggressive, and also maybe scute mob might be a little too vulnerable to go along with his high threat level. Only costing one is not as much of a boon in this deck as in others. Thoughts on those?

    Anyway, thanks for your input, sorry if I came off as rude, but it's just frustrating to see responses that clearly didn't even read all of the opening post, or the thread, and thus aren't really helpful despite good intentions.
    Signature by kingcobweb


  • #22
    Oh you didn't come off as rude [in fact really rather patient, to be honest], don't worry, I just couldn't think of a better way of phrasing it.
    I probably should have.

    One question though, in case I want to help others with this strange 'MTGO' thing I keep hearing about - how, exactly, do you check if cards are in it?

    Back on to card suggestions:
    I can see your case with not finding a slot for Acidic Slime - cantripping is probably better than a 2/2, but the deathtouch is pretty hot.
    Up until the board goes 'boom' you'll be unlikely to get attacked.
    And noone would waste a card killing it.
    If, of course, you do end up taking the Cloudstone Curio then it's just a machine, and almost certainly better than one of the other choices.
    Its versatility (i.e. it can, unlike many choices, hit Cabal Coffers) is what really sells it to me.

    Scute Mob is alright, but it'll die early on to damage-based sweeping very easily, and it just isn't really potent enough.
    Its lack of trample I find unsettling, to say the least, and I just don't know if it does enough to warrant a place.
    I'd rather something that really swung the game in your favour or more - Scute Mob effectively costs 5 as far as "when it's useful to play one", and green's CMC 5 critters start getting a lot better than that ...

    Acid test: "I'm facing my own empty board and I top deck x. What's my reaction?"
    As for Scute Mob, it's probably a fairly sad face ;-)
    Especially when even a Springjack Pasture or Fog Bank can block it every turn.
    I'd rather Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer, myself.

    I can't say I've ever actually *played* an Akroma's Memorial, but it just looks like too much fun to pass up. Depends on your number of creatures, really.
    If you don't run many / any face-hitters then it might well not be worth it.
    But if nothing else it might draw out the Disenchant otherwise headed for Tower of Fortunes ...
    EDH: The only format where you're going to see someone put 5 token copies of Spellskite into play
  • #23
    Hey BweeBwee, I wasn just giving you my list for ideas, not to copy & paste! Grin

    Quote from BweeBwee

    The cloudstone curio suggestion is something that I've thought about, and I would probably do it if aluren was cheaper online, as is, I don't think it's worth playing without aluren. It's a good idea though.

    Forget about Aluren, it's just for going infinite. Sure it's cool, but not key to Cloudstone. If you can load up on multiple extra Land drops, once you have a single land in hand or a way to get your mand into play, you will make all your drops for the turn. Even if it's only to end your turn with all your land untapped (tap for mana, play stuff, bounce and replay all your tapped lands), it's worth it.

    With all the extra mana you can gain, you can easily gate creatures in and out for their CIP abilities or tap abilities should you have Akroma's Memorial or Greaves in play.

    And don't forget that the boost on Baru, Fist of Krosa triggers off your Forest drops so just gate some forests in and out for +3/+3 to your whole team without ever spending any mana

    Quote from BweeBwee

    From your list, I see a few things that might be good additions, like the planar portal that I mentioned earlier in the thread. How good is nature's spiral? Seems a bit underpowered by not being able to get back good spells.

    People kill your stuff, meh, what you gonna do. Yes, the spells are nice but getting a forest or similiar back can occasionally get your engine going again with Horn of Greed so it's always worth it. I also have Regrowth, Restock and Witness and would probably put Recollect in there too.

    Planar Portal is a necessary evil. Mono Green doesn't have a lot of tutors, less online so you need to put in what you have. I think it's overpriced and cumbersome but I play it and use it and it's good for digging you out of a hole.

    Quote from BweeBwee
    It seems like a number of the cards you are running are dependant on the aluren/curio synergies to be worth it, like elvish visonary, elvish pioneer, and wood elves, as the 1/1 bodies I haven't found to be worth the effects, even if they are technically card advantage in the case of the visonary and wood elves..


    Yes, the deck is centerted around Curio but occasionally just accellerates into a Baloth, gives you some fat, you play an Overrun and kill someone. I have a paper Roffellos so that's an obvious accellerant into stupid things.

    Quote from BweeBwee
    I am also curious about a few other things in your list, namely only 38 lands. I like to have enough lands such that I can play azusa on turn 3 and immediately play 2 more lands, so that the next turn I can immediately start playing cards that get me a lot of lands to build up for card drawing engines. I think I would want to play at least 42, and my previous build ran 45..


    I started that way but quickly went lower because once you get the lands at the start, you really don't want more lands (or more than the one in your hand.) You want something to do with those lands and you have a huge amount of land search in your deck so once you get to a certain point, the last thing you want to draw is lands. 38 is my sweet spot though it may be different in your deck.


    Quote from BweeBwee
    There are also some cards that I'm curious about:

    Rites of Flourishing - seems like it gives your opponents too much advantage, when usually you don't have too much trouble playing out all the lands in your hand
    Doubling season - maybe it fits better in your build, but I can't see it being anything but win more in mine at least
    Helix pinnacle - seems like it will either do nothing, or make you a huge target
    Hall of gemstone - Have you found the disruption to be good enough, but not to the extent where it makes you a public enemy?
    Weird harvest - seems like it will often help your opponents more than you, especially when they can search up answer creatures
    Gauntlet of power - I guess since I'm playing extraplanar lens already, I shouldn't be too worried about giving opponents extra mana, I probably ought to run this
    Akroma's Memorial - Do you think the deck benefits enough from this? Maybe the pro black pro red is enough, and I guess vigilance and first strike... and flying... and haste, well I guess I should maybe run this too. I'm just afraid that it won't have enough impact on its own, and is a dead card early game. Do you think the late game benefits outweigh that?
    Dryad Arbor - I don't know if the vulnerability to sweepers and essentially coming into play tapped is worth the 1/1 creature. I guess it works well in your build with curio/aluren..

    Rites of Flourishing - Another necessary evil. You need the extra land drops and the cards are generally nice. I try to win quickly but I can see that you may not like giving away free cards.


    Doubling season - This is Helix, Garruk, Howl, Ants, Beasts. It's keep it in even if I cut the Helix (which I probably will do, it was only in for the cool win)

    Helix pinnacle - It's meh and probs getting cut.

    Hall of gemstone - Yes, you're going to be putting lot of lands into play and you will get noticed as someone who has the potenial to do huge things and you will get targetted. Keep 'em off your back while they deal with the Hall.

    Weird harvest - You only use it for your finisher pretty much when you have Memorial in play. Doesn't matter what they get generally if you just trample them for a few hundred hasty points.

    Gauntlet of power - It's the +1/+1 that makes it useful too.

    Akroma's Memorial - It's haste & evasion that you need, the rest is gravy. You can't afford to pass the turn and get wiped.

    Dryad Arbor - It's principally there for the Curio/Aluren indeed but is pretty key as it allows you to gate whichever you need at that time, land or creature.
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