Well, you should change the title to "Duel." Bit confusing if you talk about Duel format if your original objective is 1v1... Big difference.
Anywho, what about your hand? You don't have any problem with your hand being empty?
What about current report? You change your deck since the last time I've read it (started as 1v1), any major changes against the more aggressive 1v1 in Duel Format? Or you've bit them all except Teeg again?
Well, you should change the title to "Duel." Bit confusing if you talk about Duel format if your original objective is 1v1... Big difference.
Anywho, what about your hand? You don't have any problem with your hand being empty?
What about current report? You change your deck since the last time I've read it (started as 1v1), any major changes against the more aggressive 1v1 in Duel Format? Or you've bit them all except Teeg again?
Duel IS the regular 1v1. Unless otherwise stated, it's safe to assume that the duelcommander banlist is what is being used.
Duel IS the regular 1v1. Unless otherwise stated, it's safe to assume that the duelcommander banlist is what is being used.
Duel Commander's original name is French EDH.
Commander (or EDH) can be played with multiplayer... And to your surprise 1v1.
So all in all, if you play 1v1, you either use Commander's list or Duel Commander's list. In which Emrakul is legal or not in either version... And even Hermit Druid is also a factor. Another factor is the tucking rule of each Commander... One goes somewhere and the other goes to exile or hand.
Fun looking list! I always enjoy the challenge of playing blue control without access to black or white removal.
This is further reduced even more by the event that Kira, acts as a pseudo 3-cost counterspell that comes in with Flash in response to a kill spell.
Just want to mention that flashing in Kira in response to a Doom Blade targeting Teferi will not counter the Doom Blade. Kira's ability is a trigger that will go off when a spell or ability goes on the stack targeting one of your creatures. Once the spell is on the stack the opportunity for that ability to trigger has passed.
Just want to mention that flashing in Kira in response to a Doom Blade targeting Teferi will not counter the Doom Blade. Kira's ability is a trigger that will go off when a spell or ability goes on the stack targeting one of your creatures. Once the spell is on the stack the opportunity for that ability to trigger has passed.
Yeah... I realized that's what it sounded like that. I went ahead and it changed it. I did not mean for it to sound like you can counter abilities on the stack.
Sorry I took a long break from posting, but I have played the deck 8-10 times and I have to say, it is a LOT of fun. As soon as I drop cards, people direct all their hate at me, which is how I like it. I have not lost a 1-on-1 yet and it does very well in groups too.
I'll post my latest list later.
Are you still playing it?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
3/1/14
I made significant changes to the deck to improve mana efficiency, ramp potential and speed. In order to do this, I had to reduce most of the higher cost counterspells, cut down on the amount of permission in general, and add in more Time Warp cards. It was my personal decision to keep Caged Sun in the deck because it literally gives me another win condition should I have Memnarch available.
I cut 4 lands and readjusted some permission cards to suit a faster metagame. You can see that in place of 4 lands, I have added some really powerful artifact cards such as Mana Crypt, Mana Vault and Gauntlet of Power. I even cut Lightning Greaves because I just didn't find the time to cast the spell and I felt like casting mana rocks to speed up my game is always better. For the same reason, I cut some of the slower land cards like Maze of Ith simply because it didn't give me any mana. Seat of the Synod didn't work with Gauntlet of Power so it was cut. Halimar Depths was kept because the ability to dig 3 deep in early game is game-changing. Dissipate and his brother Faerie Trickery was dropped for the faster Swan Song and Stifle, and Negate was added for extra protection. Hinder stayed in the deck because it can be re-used with Snapcaster Mage and Archaeomancer. Last, but certainly not least, I decided to break out my beautiful Capture of Jingzhou to aid in tempo creation and overall deck speed.
Tidespout Tyrant - This card has the potential to be devastating, but I need to have the right cards in my hand to take maximum potential. Countering one card or casting one spell a turn is hardly enough to get a lot of of him. I would need Palinchron in my hand to make this truly worthwhile, but I can see him ending games immediately by himself if both are in my hand at the same time (due to Storm). Is that asking too much?
List looks good and I'm not sure if Tidespout is a good card for you or not but in monoblue I see him most often used to make infinite mana with mana rocks. You repeatedly bounce 2 of your permanents over and over, one that produces enough mana that you net at least 1 per cycle. Mana Vault and Mana Crypt are best for this but Sol Ring and Grim Monolith can be used as well though your options are more limited. Once you get something like Copy Artifact in the mix you have more options. He's fine with Palinchron of course but if you're interested in including the card I'd look at some of his other applications.
If you're aware of this already my apologies but I got the impression from this quote that you were looking at it as a Palinchron enabler when it's a much more versatile infinte mana enabler.
Tidespout Tyrant - This card has the potential to be devastating, but I need to have the right cards in my hand to take maximum potential. Countering one card or casting one spell a turn is hardly enough to get a lot of of him. I would need Palinchron in my hand to make this truly worthwhile, but I can see him ending games immediately by himself if both are in my hand at the same time (due to Storm). Is that asking too much?
List looks good and I'm not sure if Tidespout is a good card for you or not but in monoblue I see him most often used to make infinite mana with mana rocks. You repeatedly bounce 2 of your permanents over and over, one that produces enough mana that you net at least 1 per cycle. Mana Vault and Mana Crypt are best for this but Sol Ring and Grim Monolith can be used as well though your options are more limited. Once you get something like Copy Artifact in the mix you have more options. He's fine with Palinchron of course but if you're interested in including the card I'd look at some of his other applications.
If you're aware of this already my apologies but I got the impression from this quote that you were looking at it as a Palinchron enabler when it's a much more versatile infinte mana enabler.
Thank for the post!
I agree that the initial quote resembles that I'm only seeing the value of Tidesprout Tyrant as a game-ender when it's more multi-function than that. The truth is: If I wanted infinite colorless, there are much better options. The biggest one is Power Artifact and that can be tutored with Muddle the Mixture. Rings of Brighthearth is another card that has much value for infinite colorless when combined with Basalt Monolith.
Power Artifact is definitely on that list of cards to try though.
I had a similar deck a while back. I've since disassembled it because it was too dickish.
Some cards you might like: Arcane Laboratory - On it's own, it'll screw with combo players and generally slow down the game a little. But it can also serve as a pseudo alternate for Teferi with Knowledge Pool. However, in that role, it also prevents you from playing spells. Omen Machine - Combined with Teferi, this will limit everyone else at the table to what they have in hand. Not quite a hard lock, but pretty close.
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
I had a similar deck a while back. I've since disassembled it because it was too dickish.
Some cards you might like: Arcane Laboratory - On it's own, it'll screw with combo players and generally slow down the game a little. But it can also serve as a pseudo alternate for Teferi with Knowledge Pool. However, in that role, it also prevents you from playing spells. Omen Machine - Combined with Teferi, this will limit everyone else at the table to what they have in hand. Not quite a hard lock, but pretty close.
Omen Machine is a card that I've played with a good amount. It wasn't a hard enough lock for me to consider it a win condition, it was just annoying and players often had a thing or two in their hands that could still have interactions with their commander. Arcane Laboratory limits me too much for my liking since this deck also has the ability to combo hard.
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Not a true tutor but it's one of the few that blue has. With top, you'll be able to get the card that you want in a jiffy. I would say that any card that brings you that much closer to a combo piece is worth considering in the deck. Whether or not it's fast enough to justify deck space over another value card, I'm not sure. So far, I have used it to good effect.
Is is possible to do a budget version of this deck, but say that my criteria was only cards equal or under $10 unless a card is core/must-have to the deck?
Is is possible to do a budget version of this deck, but say that my criteria was only cards equal or under $10 unless a card is core/must-have to the deck?
Sorry, been away for a bit. To say that work got busy is a vast understatement.
I'm not sure if a budget version of this deck is possible, unless you want to drastically reduce the amount of win conditions that you have. All the time-travel cards are used for infinites and for ramp, and the infinite mana stuff needs Palinchron at least. You will be pretty much stuck with Knowledge Pool and Omen Machine.
I'm curious what you think about Timetwister? Is it not in here for limiting factors such as cost/access or because you just feel like you could be playing better cards for what you are doing? If it is a limiting factor and you could play the card, what would you replace it for? Thanks!
The reason why Timetwister is not in here is yes, due to availability and because of function as a secondary motive. If I need to recycle my wincons, I normally only have to do it once. It also doesn't net me any mana when I play with my mana-doublers either, unlike Time Spiral.
Even if I had the card, a ramp spell or counter would probably be stronger in a deck like this.
There's no doubt that Teferi is an incredibly powerful commander, and it's refreshing to see an ACTUALLY competitive deck built around him. I would enjoy seeing the sparks fly if our decks clashed (fortunately, being in red, I have access to some of the best blue hate cards out there :P)
Um, there's not a whole lot I would suggest (your list is near perfect already IMO)
Maybe Intuition if you have $$ Combos with Snapcaster and Archaeomancer
Future Sight is quite a powerful card and will probably win you the game if you have the Top in play also.
Twincast might grant you some nice utility - it's good with Recurring Insight and extra turn effects - doubles as an anti counter.
You should be able to make use of Gush quite well - it has some crazy utility.
Foil and Mindbreak Trap are the other 2 "free" counters I would suggest - good for those turn 1-3 win attempts.
Hurkyl's Recall lets you reset Sculpting Steel and Metamorph as well as get rid of Mana Vault or Mana Crypt if you need to (or cast them again to profit mana) - it saves your stuff from removal and hoses other decks that rely on artifacts.
Turnabout should be amazing with High Tide and doubles as protection from creatures for a turn. I find it incredibly useful lategame to untap all my artifact ramp - enabling basically another turn.
Consider trying out Call to Mind. I've really enjoyed this simple effect.
Anywho, what about your hand? You don't have any problem with your hand being empty?
What about current report? You change your deck since the last time I've read it (started as 1v1), any major changes against the more aggressive 1v1 in Duel Format? Or you've bit them all except Teeg again?
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
Duel IS the regular 1v1. Unless otherwise stated, it's safe to assume that the duelcommander banlist is what is being used.
Duel Commander's original name is French EDH.
Commander (or EDH) can be played with multiplayer... And to your surprise 1v1.
So all in all, if you play 1v1, you either use Commander's list or Duel Commander's list. In which Emrakul is legal or not in either version... And even Hermit Druid is also a factor. Another factor is the tucking rule of each Commander... One goes somewhere and the other goes to exile or hand.
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
Just want to mention that flashing in Kira in response to a Doom Blade targeting Teferi will not counter the Doom Blade. Kira's ability is a trigger that will go off when a spell or ability goes on the stack targeting one of your creatures. Once the spell is on the stack the opportunity for that ability to trigger has passed.
My Trade Thread
Yeah... I realized that's what it sounded like that. I went ahead and it changed it. I did not mean for it to sound like you can counter abilities on the stack.
Thanks for pointing that out.
EDH: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
I'll post my latest list later.
Are you still playing it?
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
EDH: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
EDH: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
I made significant changes to the deck to improve mana efficiency, ramp potential and speed. In order to do this, I had to reduce most of the higher cost counterspells, cut down on the amount of permission in general, and add in more Time Warp cards. It was my personal decision to keep Caged Sun in the deck because it literally gives me another win condition should I have Memnarch available.
Here's what I removed:
Time Stop - Too expensive.
Cryptic Command - Same with the above.
Mindbreak Trap - Same with the above.
Rewind - Same with the above.
Sword of Feast and Famine - Trying for more consistent ramp.
Reins of Power - Removed for more artifact ramp.
Wipe Away - Cut more more Time Warp cards.
Here's what I added:
Counterspell - Cheaper CS
Delay - Same.
Basalt Monolith - Added for ramp.
Grim Monolith - Added for ramp.
Temporal Mastery - The blue ramp.
Temporal Manipulation - Same as the above.
Walk the Aeons - Same.
These changes should also give me a little more play consistency and allow me to ramp harder.
I also find it quite flavorful to add more time-related tricks like Temporal Manipulation and Delay in a deck all about Teferi
EDH: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Some pretty big changes again, aimed at speeding up the pace of the deck in a cutthroat environment.
-Maze of Ith
-Seat of the Synod
-2x Snow-Covered Island
-Dissipate
-Faerie Trickery
-Spell Crumple
-Lightning Greaves
+Swan Song
+Stifle
+Capture of Jingzhou
+Negate
+Mind Stone
+Mana Crypt
+Mana Vault
+Gauntlet of Power
I cut 4 lands and readjusted some permission cards to suit a faster metagame. You can see that in place of 4 lands, I have added some really powerful artifact cards such as Mana Crypt, Mana Vault and Gauntlet of Power. I even cut Lightning Greaves because I just didn't find the time to cast the spell and I felt like casting mana rocks to speed up my game is always better. For the same reason, I cut some of the slower land cards like Maze of Ith simply because it didn't give me any mana. Seat of the Synod didn't work with Gauntlet of Power so it was cut. Halimar Depths was kept because the ability to dig 3 deep in early game is game-changing. Dissipate and his brother Faerie Trickery was dropped for the faster Swan Song and Stifle, and Negate was added for extra protection. Hinder stayed in the deck because it can be re-used with Snapcaster Mage and Archaeomancer. Last, but certainly not least, I decided to break out my beautiful Capture of Jingzhou to aid in tempo creation and overall deck speed.
EDH: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
List looks good and I'm not sure if Tidespout is a good card for you or not but in monoblue I see him most often used to make infinite mana with mana rocks. You repeatedly bounce 2 of your permanents over and over, one that produces enough mana that you net at least 1 per cycle. Mana Vault and Mana Crypt are best for this but Sol Ring and Grim Monolith can be used as well though your options are more limited. Once you get something like Copy Artifact in the mix you have more options. He's fine with Palinchron of course but if you're interested in including the card I'd look at some of his other applications.
If you're aware of this already my apologies but I got the impression from this quote that you were looking at it as a Palinchron enabler when it's a much more versatile infinte mana enabler.
Thank for the post!
I agree that the initial quote resembles that I'm only seeing the value of Tidesprout Tyrant as a game-ender when it's more multi-function than that. The truth is: If I wanted infinite colorless, there are much better options. The biggest one is Power Artifact and that can be tutored with Muddle the Mixture. Rings of Brighthearth is another card that has much value for infinite colorless when combined with Basalt Monolith.
Power Artifact is definitely on that list of cards to try though.
EDH: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Minor changes to speed up deck efficiency.
Added:
Drift of Phantasms
Ethereal Usher
Recurring Insight
Removed:
Wash Out
Consecrated Sphinx
Mind Stone
The reason for these changes are simple: Added more Tutors to the deck. Drift of Phantasms finds game-ending cards like Capsize and Fabricate if I have infinite mana. Ethereal Usher is my one-stop shop for Knowledge Pool, although he can find Recurring Insight or Deadeye Navigator should I have the right board scenario. Recurring Insight over Consecrated Sphinx because it digs roughly the same amount on average but is harder to stop. I need that explosive card draw over the creature.
Possible swap: Mind Stone > Negate. I'll play with 1 less mana rock for now and see what happens.
EDH: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Some cards you might like:
Arcane Laboratory - On it's own, it'll screw with combo players and generally slow down the game a little. But it can also serve as a pseudo alternate for Teferi with Knowledge Pool. However, in that role, it also prevents you from playing spells.
Omen Machine - Combined with Teferi, this will limit everyone else at the table to what they have in hand. Not quite a hard lock, but pretty close.
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Omen Machine is a card that I've played with a good amount. It wasn't a hard enough lock for me to consider it a win condition, it was just annoying and players often had a thing or two in their hands that could still have interactions with their commander. Arcane Laboratory limits me too much for my liking since this deck also has the ability to combo hard.
EDH: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Transmute Artifact is better in that regard, much faster and cheaper with the artifacts you already have.
EDH: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Is Long-Term Plans any good?
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Not a true tutor but it's one of the few that blue has. With top, you'll be able to get the card that you want in a jiffy. I would say that any card that brings you that much closer to a combo piece is worth considering in the deck. Whether or not it's fast enough to justify deck space over another value card, I'm not sure. So far, I have used it to good effect.
EDH: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
No new changes thus far, deck has been running just as intended.
EDH: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Sorry, been away for a bit. To say that work got busy is a vast understatement.
I'm not sure if a budget version of this deck is possible, unless you want to drastically reduce the amount of win conditions that you have. All the time-travel cards are used for infinites and for ramp, and the infinite mana stuff needs Palinchron at least. You will be pretty much stuck with Knowledge Pool and Omen Machine.
EDH: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
The reason why Timetwister is not in here is yes, due to availability and because of function as a secondary motive. If I need to recycle my wincons, I normally only have to do it once. It also doesn't net me any mana when I play with my mana-doublers either, unlike Time Spiral.
Even if I had the card, a ramp spell or counter would probably be stronger in a deck like this.
EDH: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Um, there's not a whole lot I would suggest (your list is near perfect already IMO)
Maybe Intuition if you have $$ Combos with Snapcaster and Archaeomancer
Future Sight is quite a powerful card and will probably win you the game if you have the Top in play also.
Twincast might grant you some nice utility - it's good with Recurring Insight and extra turn effects - doubles as an anti counter.
You should be able to make use of Gush quite well - it has some crazy utility.
Personal Tutor has some nice targets, including but not limited to Temporal Mastery.
Foil and Mindbreak Trap are the other 2 "free" counters I would suggest - good for those turn 1-3 win attempts.
Hurkyl's Recall lets you reset Sculpting Steel and Metamorph as well as get rid of Mana Vault or Mana Crypt if you need to (or cast them again to profit mana) - it saves your stuff from removal and hoses other decks that rely on artifacts.
Omniscience would be a solid win con for you.
Leyline of Anticipation might be worth some consideration.
Turnabout should be amazing with High Tide and doubles as protection from creatures for a turn. I find it incredibly useful lategame to untap all my artifact ramp - enabling basically another turn.
Consider trying out Call to Mind. I've really enjoyed this simple effect.
I guess that's it.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp