Maybe I'm getting more crazy, or open or receptive to these different cards as time goes, but I sure am looking at this guy with a real strong like right now. Pretty sure it's a dollar bin rare too, so if it doesn't work out...we're not out anything of large consequence.
I finally added the 1v1 list back to the Primer, I'm just working on filling in those last few sections! Questions/comments/concerns are welcome, I know there's a lot of changes and streamlining as I shifted focus from rocks to hand disruption (rocks come back in multiplayer).
Maybe I'm getting more crazy, or open or receptive to these different cards as time goes, but I sure am looking at this guy with a real strong like right now. Pretty sure it's a dollar bin rare too, so if it doesn't work out...we're not out anything of large consequence.
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder is less than a dollar on TCGPlayer, but for all intents and purposes, is a dollar rare after accounting for shipping costs. You have nothing to lose by buying a paper version to try out. The MTGO version is probably similarly cheap.
For my multiplayer deck, I have a few life gain sources to offset any massive life loss caused by Kothophed, Soul Hoarder's ability. I also added Sneak Attack to the deck to give me another quick way to get triggered abilities and combat abilities to fire. I found Resolute Archangel to be an interesting way to gain massive amounts of life.
Maybe I'm getting more crazy, or open or receptive to these different cards as time goes, but I sure am looking at this guy with a real strong like right now. Pretty sure it's a dollar bin rare too, so if it doesn't work out...we're not out anything of large consequence.
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder is less than a dollar on TCGPlayer, but for all intents and purposes, is a dollar rare after accounting for shipping costs. You have nothing to lose by buying a paper version to try out. The MTGO version is probably similarly cheap.
For my multiplayer deck, I have a few life gain sources to offset any massive life loss caused by Kothophed, Soul Hoarder's ability. I also added Sneak Attack to the deck to give me another quick way to get triggered abilities and combat abilities to fire. I found Resolute Archangel to be an interesting way to gain massive amounts of life.
Oh yea....resolute archangel is a thing......
That could merit some discussion in multiplayer for sure.
Your Kaalia20181v1 decklist doesn't list certain cards that you talk about in the following paragraphs. For example, you don't have Dark Confidant in the list, yet you talk about it later. You may need to clean up the paragraphs to describe the choice in your current list and then talk about other cards like Confidant.
Also, I found a typo (see below surrounded by asterisks)
Cataclysm & Fire Covenant - These are my go-to sweepers. For three mana and INSTANT speed, I can conjure up a sweeper killing only what I need and nothing that I don't, making it the ultimate scalpel of efficient killing. For one more mana though, I get the sheer destructive power of one of the best sweepers in the format, capable of leveling entire battlefields - ***accept*** for ours, of course, since keeping Kaalia is often more than enough to break the alleged symmetry of the card.
I am almost about to throw the towell on Kaalia for multiplayer, I get always being the focus of my playgroup, I will give her a couple of more trys making her full stax, so maybe I will survive to live to turn 8-9 and maybe I will be able to play my game.
Maybe I am just a bad Kaalia player, in 1v1 I get a ton of fun but in multi I just get deleted by turn 6 or earlier because my playgroup is just too afraid of her even when I do not run a single combo (and they know it)
It makes me sad because I have invested a lot of time and money in the deck and because I like her, I like some of my "pet cards" such as Utvara Hellkite and others and thats why I keep trying to me her better, but really it is very hard to be always the "archenemy" while not having blue in the deck.
I am almost about to throw the towell on Kaalia for multiplayer, I get always being the focus of my playgroup, I will give her a couple of more trys making her full stax, so maybe I will survive to live to turn 8-9 and maybe I will be able to play my game.
Maybe I am just a bad Kaalia player, in 1v1 I get a ton of fun but in multi I just get deleted by turn 6 or earlier because my playgroup is just too afraid of her even when I do not run a single combo (and they know it)
It makes me sad because I have invested a lot of time and money in the deck and because I like her, I like some of my "pet cards" such as Utvara Hellkite and others and thats why I keep trying to me her better, but really it is very hard to be always the "archenemy" while not having blue in the deck.
Yeah I do not play Kaalia in multiplayer. I even built a 10 card multiplayer sideboard to sideboard out the hand disruption and it's not enough.
I just put together a very competitive combo-intensive Azami, Lady of Scrolls deck together to be my multiplayer competitive deck. It's the primer from the multiplayer forums and even though ComboZami is well known, I still feel like that if there was a Kaalia of the Vast player and I was playing my Azami, Lady of Scrolls deck it wouldn't be hard to convince the table to eliminate the Kaalia player while I setup my board state and hopefully combo out. It's getting to the point where even in 1v1 I need to find room for Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast just so Kaalia gets a little bit more advantage over our worst matchup decktype.
I am almost about to throw the towell on Kaalia for multiplayer, I get always being the focus of my playgroup, I will give her a couple of more trys making her full stax, so maybe I will survive to live to turn 8-9 and maybe I will be able to play my game.
Maybe I am just a bad Kaalia player, in 1v1 I get a ton of fun but in multi I just get deleted by turn 6 or earlier because my playgroup is just too afraid of her even when I do not run a single combo (and they know it)
It makes me sad because I have invested a lot of time and money in the deck and because I like her, I like some of my "pet cards" such as Utvara Hellkite and others and thats why I keep trying to me her better, but really it is very hard to be always the "archenemy" while not having blue in the deck.
Players are afraid of the unknown. Kaalia herself is the embodiment of that. They don't know if they will get MoC'd out of the game, or cope with losing a brick of their life to an attack. This isn't the most rational response, especially considering the other combo decks at the table but those combos often don't look threatening. Kaalia though......she's very visible. This makes her not an attractive multiplayer deck. It's frustrating. I know, when you warn a table "hey, guys, we really need to crush the Derevi Stax guy, or keep Scarab God in check..." to get met by "nope, Kaalia might do something, gotta kill her!" instead.
Players are afraid of the unknown. Kaalia herself is the embodiment of that. They don't know if they will get MoC'd out of the game, or cope with losing a brick of their life to an attack. This isn't the most rational response, especially considering the other combo decks at the table but those combos often don't look threatening. Kaalia though......she's very visible. This makes her not an attractive multiplayer deck. It's frustrating. I know, when you warn a table "hey, guys, we really need to crush the Derevi Stax guy, or keep Scarab God in check..." to get met by "nope, Kaalia might do something, gotta kill her!" instead.
It sounds like the competitive multiplayer Kaalia deck has to resort to stronger tactics that hit everybody like Armageddon or Stax. They can't gang up on a Kaalia player if they don't have resources. Also, every single creature that is a target for Kaalia has to do something big on entering the battlefield or on attack. Flameblast syndrome cards like Utvara Hellkite won't be as helpful in multiplayer.
It would effect some of ours. But how many? Note that most of our guys do something on damage dealt. MoC, Rakdos, Lord of the Void, Steel dragon, or are static i.e. Baneslayer, Bloodgift.... of note, Torpor Orb hits our own Rune-scarred and angel of despair. Those are high profile targets, but by comparison to what we'd be hitting in the average game, I think the end justifies the means. Many decks are rendered completely shut down by a Torpor effect (my Alesha, for example, would lose a lot of potency to this effect).
Worth noting this effect completely turns off Deadeye Navigator.....that's worth something right there.
It sounds like the competitive multiplayer Kaalia deck has to resort to stronger tactics that hit everybody like Armageddon or Stax. They can't gang up on a Kaalia player if they don't have resources. Also, every single creature that is a target for Kaalia has to do something big on entering the battlefield or on attack. Flameblast syndrome cards like Utvara Hellkite won't be as helpful in multiplayer.
Which is why I've been trying to refine Dragonstorm. That's an alternate method of attack because Dragonstorm is like the Spanish Inquisition - nobody sees it coming.
It would effect some of ours. But how many? Note that most of our guys do something on damage dealt. MoC, Rakdos, Lord of the Void, Steel dragon, or are static i.e. Baneslayer, Bloodgift.... of note, Torpor Orb hits our own Rune-scarred and angel of despair. Those are high profile targets, but by comparison to what we'd be hitting in the average game, I think the end justifies the means. Many decks are rendered completely shut down by a Torpor effect (my Alesha, for example, would lose a lot of potency to this effect).
You're right that many of Kaalia's targets have static abilities that happen upon combat damage that aren't triggered abilities.
Think im gonna try to "practice" the dragonstorm theory with Neheb, the Eternal commander and then extrapolate to Kaalia once I have a better grasp of the how to.
I know the end result is Scourge of Valkas, Dragon Tempest, and Panharmonicon. And I know in Mardu, you always end the chain with Dragonlord Kolaghan. Mono-R will be a little different, but the principles should still be the same.
Using Dragon Mage for the Dragonstorm version? I guess if you only use it as another Dragon trigger and not actually attack with it, you won't give your opponents cards.
Using Dragon Mage for the Dragonstorm version? I guess if you only use it as another Dragon trigger and not actually attack with it, you won't give your opponents cards.
Yeah, it's another target, though it's also possible if you need a,fresh hand to get that attack in and then go off.
I am waiting for some new cards I bought to see if I can get the 3vs1 in my favour, so, my next aditions to the deck are magus of the moat, magus of the tabernacle , No mercy and Aurification, I will add some extra protection cards such as Pyroblast and red elemental blast, I know they may be dead cards but in my meta there is always someone playing blue, and in the hypotetical case where noone in the table is playing blue then Kaalia does not suffer much so.. is not that terrible.
The magus are all humans (they share the type of Kaalia wich is great), I really need to prevent atacks against me so thats why all those cards wuill be there for.
Also Ill add maybe one or 2 more boardwipes and one or 2 more MLD spells, and because of that Ill add Crucible of worlds and maybe desolation
I thik Ill cut some creatures and let just the worsts enemy table's ones, and maybe I will add again some "spot protection" as before
No Mercy and Aurafication are good Pillowfort cards. They will slow opponents down. If you really need a Moat effect, you should buy a Moat. The Magi creatures get wiped out quick.
No Mercy and Aurafication are good Pillowfort cards. They will slow opponents down. If you really need a Moat effect, you should buy a Moat. The Magi creatures get wiped out quick.
I hope it is, I will try a little more pillowfort because the rage is real, I am the #1 target from turn zero even when I have almost 0% winrate in multi (I won only one or two multi games)
No Mercy and Aurafication are good Pillowfort cards. They will slow opponents down. If you really need a Moat effect, you should buy a Moat. The Magi creatures get wiped out quick.
I hope it is, I will try a little more pillowfort because the rage is real, I am the #1 target from turn zero even when I have almost 0% winrate in multi (I won only one or two multi games)
If your opponents are trying to win via damage, you may also want ways to gain life. Resolute Archangel costs 7 and isn't the best angel, but launching it through Sneak Attack or Kaalia will extend your game time.
No Mercy and Aurafication are good Pillowfort cards. They will slow opponents down. If you really need a Moat effect, you should buy a Moat. The Magi creatures get wiped out quick.
I hope it is, I will try a little more pillowfort because the rage is real, I am the #1 target from turn zero even when I have almost 0% winrate in multi (I won only one or two multi games)
If your opponents are trying to win via damage, you may also want ways to gain life. Resolute Archangel costs 7 and isn't the best angel, but launching it through Sneak Attack or Kaalia will extend your game time.
No Mercy and Aurafication are good Pillowfort cards. They will slow opponents down. If you really need a Moat effect, you should buy a Moat. The Magi creatures get wiped out quick.
+1. If you can afford it, Moat is one of the best cards for us. Almost tailor made.
Hey 3drinks! I just got into commander since I bought the commander anthology product some month ago to play with my brothers at home. At first I noticed the Kaalia deck was undertuned versus all of the decks so I started upgrading it, suddenly I got really hooked on the deck and I wanted to upgrade it for multiplayer games at my lgs. looking for help, I found your suggestions and made this list with cards I had and some I ordered without spending to much. What do you think? What cards would you suggest changing without spending that much more, I think im lacking better removal and the mana curve is a bit high with the changes. Do you think the mana base is good? I already spent 60 bucks on this upgrades so I would spend max 40-50 more. Gladly accepting some suggestion. It doesnt have to be tier 1 neither the most competitive its mainly to have fun haha Thanks!!
Haha yeah its a lot of the Silver/Black with most creatures from the non budget list. And after the changes, man it feels like a real deck. The stock version was super clunky. Anyway, hope to hear some suggestions from you. Thanks a lot!!
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I finally added the 1v1 list back to the Primer, I'm just working on filling in those last few sections! Questions/comments/concerns are welcome, I know there's a lot of changes and streamlining as I shifted focus from rocks to hand disruption (rocks come back in multiplayer).
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder is less than a dollar on TCGPlayer, but for all intents and purposes, is a dollar rare after accounting for shipping costs. You have nothing to lose by buying a paper version to try out. The MTGO version is probably similarly cheap.
For my multiplayer deck, I have a few life gain sources to offset any massive life loss caused by Kothophed, Soul Hoarder's ability. I also added Sneak Attack to the deck to give me another quick way to get triggered abilities and combat abilities to fire. I found Resolute Archangel to be an interesting way to gain massive amounts of life.
Oh yea....resolute archangel is a thing......
That could merit some discussion in multiplayer for sure.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Also, I found a typo (see below surrounded by asterisks)
I think you mean "except"
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Maybe I am just a bad Kaalia player, in 1v1 I get a ton of fun but in multi I just get deleted by turn 6 or earlier because my playgroup is just too afraid of her even when I do not run a single combo (and they know it)
It makes me sad because I have invested a lot of time and money in the deck and because I like her, I like some of my "pet cards" such as Utvara Hellkite and others and thats why I keep trying to me her better, but really it is very hard to be always the "archenemy" while not having blue in the deck.
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
Yeah I do not play Kaalia in multiplayer. I even built a 10 card multiplayer sideboard to sideboard out the hand disruption and it's not enough.
I just put together a very competitive combo-intensive Azami, Lady of Scrolls deck together to be my multiplayer competitive deck. It's the primer from the multiplayer forums and even though ComboZami is well known, I still feel like that if there was a Kaalia of the Vast player and I was playing my Azami, Lady of Scrolls deck it wouldn't be hard to convince the table to eliminate the Kaalia player while I setup my board state and hopefully combo out. It's getting to the point where even in 1v1 I need to find room for Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast just so Kaalia gets a little bit more advantage over our worst matchup decktype.
Players are afraid of the unknown. Kaalia herself is the embodiment of that. They don't know if they will get MoC'd out of the game, or cope with losing a brick of their life to an attack. This isn't the most rational response, especially considering the other combo decks at the table but those combos often don't look threatening. Kaalia though......she's very visible. This makes her not an attractive multiplayer deck. It's frustrating. I know, when you warn a table "hey, guys, we really need to crush the Derevi Stax guy, or keep Scarab God in check..." to get met by "nope, Kaalia might do something, gotta kill her!" instead.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Against what deck or meta is this for? That would also neuter some of Kaalia's creatures.
It sounds like the competitive multiplayer Kaalia deck has to resort to stronger tactics that hit everybody like Armageddon or Stax. They can't gang up on a Kaalia player if they don't have resources. Also, every single creature that is a target for Kaalia has to do something big on entering the battlefield or on attack. Flameblast syndrome cards like Utvara Hellkite won't be as helpful in multiplayer.
Worth noting this effect completely turns off Deadeye Navigator.....that's worth something right there.
It sounds like the competitive multiplayer Kaalia deck has to resort to stronger tactics that hit everybody like Armageddon or Stax. They can't gang up on a Kaalia player if they don't have resources. Also, every single creature that is a target for Kaalia has to do something big on entering the battlefield or on attack. Flameblast syndrome cards like Utvara Hellkite won't be as helpful in multiplayer.
Which is why I've been trying to refine Dragonstorm. That's an alternate method of attack because Dragonstorm is like the Spanish Inquisition - nobody sees it coming.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
You're right that many of Kaalia's targets have static abilities that happen upon combat damage that aren't triggered abilities.
Torpor Orb would also shut down Shadowborn Demon, Overseer of the Damned, Kokusho, the Evening Star, and Yosei the Morning Star, but Kaalia has plenty of replacements that swapped in.
However, Torpor Orb is only one card of 99. Would one card be enough for the deck? Even if you tutor for it, wouldn't it just get destroyed quickly?
If you can figure out a way to get Dragonstorm to work reliably in Kaalia to have a greater than 50% win percentage, you would be heralded a genius.
I know the end result is Scourge of Valkas, Dragon Tempest, and Panharmonicon. And I know in Mardu, you always end the chain with Dragonlord Kolaghan. Mono-R will be a little different, but the principles should still be the same.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Yeah, it's another target, though it's also possible if you need a,fresh hand to get that attack in and then go off.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The magus are all humans (they share the type of Kaalia wich is great), I really need to prevent atacks against me so thats why all those cards wuill be there for.
Also Ill add maybe one or 2 more boardwipes and one or 2 more MLD spells, and because of that Ill add Crucible of worlds and maybe desolation
I thik Ill cut some creatures and let just the worsts enemy table's ones, and maybe I will add again some "spot protection" as before
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
I hope it is, I will try a little more pillowfort because the rage is real, I am the #1 target from turn zero even when I have almost 0% winrate in multi (I won only one or two multi games)
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
If your opponents are trying to win via damage, you may also want ways to gain life. Resolute Archangel costs 7 and isn't the best angel, but launching it through Sneak Attack or Kaalia will extend your game time.
Actually that can work
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
+1. If you can afford it, Moat is one of the best cards for us. Almost tailor made.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kaalia-budget-version-help/
Commander ()
1x Kaalia of the Vast
Creature (21)
1x Aegis Angel
1x Angel of Despair
1x Angelic Arbiter
1x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Basandra, Battle Seraph
1x Bladewing the Risen
1x Bloodgift Demon
1x Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
1x Linvala, the Preserver
1x Lord of the Void
1x Master of Cruelties
1x Mother of Runes
1x Rakdos the Defiler
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Shadowborn Demon
1x Sire Of Insanity
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Thunder Dragon
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
Sorcery (21)
1x Akroma's Vengeance
1x Armageddon
1x Beacon of Unrest
1x Cataclysm
1x Diabolic Tutor
1x Earthquake
1x Grave Upheaval
1x Increasing Ambition
1x Necromantic Summons
1x Night's Whisper
1x Promise of Power
1x Pyroclasm
1x Razaketh's Rite
1x Read the Bones
1x Rise from the Grave
1x Sign in Blood
1x Syphon Mind
1x Unburial Rites
1x Vandalblast
1x Wildfire
1x Zombify
Instant (12)
1x Boros Charm
1x Mortify
1x Orzhov Charm
1x Path to Exile
1x Plunge into Darkness
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Return to Dust
1x Sulfurous Blast
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Terminate
1x Ultimate Price
1x Volcanic Fallout
Artifact (7)
1x Boros Signet
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Loxodon Warhammer
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Sol Ring
1x Talisman of Indulgence
Land (36)
10x Swamp
6x Plains
4x Mountain
1x Ash Barrens
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Command Tower
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Foreboding Ruins
1x Graven Cairns
1x Nomad Outpost
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1x Smoldering Marsh
1x Tainted Field
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Vivid Meadow
I've got numerous suggestions to that too, but next time I'm on my laptop.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.