Platinum Angel and Exquisite Angel don't do anything to advance your board state or damage your opponents' board state. Although Platinum Angel's power and toughness are lower than Exquisite Angel, it does have the advantage of preventing your opponents from winning. In multiplayer, I generally find that Platinum Angel will draw other players' attention, so Platinum Angel won't stick around for long. I would imagine that Exquisite Angel would behave similarly.
This card is cute in assuming life totals matter. But a lot of good resetting life totals will do when your opponent just flashed their Dread Return back for that Lab Maniac. 😉
what do you guys think of zurgo in DC? I just cant seem to beat him when piloting kaalia. the flurry of burn seems too much
You need a more controlling style, tbh. Also, the list here isn't tuned for DC, as DC Kaalia has been a bit of a dicey topic to really find a good, working balance.
So I moved to a new area and from what I can tell no one plays 1v1 Traditional Commander in this new area, so I am converting my Kaalia deck to a Multiplayer deck. However I need to cut 7 cards and I am very lost and what hoping the experts here could enlighten me.
I don't think these cards are that great in the multiplayer deck.
Angel of Deliverance: It has no immediate board impact when it enters the battlefield. It requires delirium, which you might not have at a given point in time. It costs 8 mana. Bruna, the Fading Light: Does not combo with Kaalia's ability or Quicksilver Amulet, because it needs to be cast. It costs 7 mana. You're not going to get the meld creature very often. Hanweir Battlements: It costs red mana to provide haste. You might need that mana elsewhere. Archfiend of Depravity: The discard ability is not strong enough. Against control and combo decks, Sire of Insanity is better. Tragic Arrogance: This often plays against you in multiplayer. Aurelia, the Warleader: Does not combo off Kaalia, requiring you to hard cast. Its haste ability helps trigger its second ability, though. Winter Orb: Your deck isn't a stax deck, so this doesn't synergize with the deck. I don't think it won't stop a combo deck from going off. Resolute Archangel: Too weak for its cost, although resetting life is tempting.
I'm not a fan of the Moxes, as they remove cards from your deck, which can be risky. If the environment is very competitive, then you may need to keep them.
Thread dead? Is there any cards from the newer sets even worth running? Did anyone end up running Exquisite Archangel ???
Not dead, It's just most of us have such tuned decks that nothing has come up that warrants even looking at. We're talking cutthroat 1v1 here, and with the weaknesses that out lady has, we have to be overly picky with our cards just to survive. Can't afford to be cute. It gets us taken apart against any opponent that has thumbs and can walk upright.
So, with Exquisite Archangel, considering that it's a worse Platinum Angel and we don't run that... Just saying. lol
Thread dead? Is there any cards from the newer sets even worth running? Did anyone end up running Exquisite Archangel ???
Not dead, It's just most of us have such tuned decks that nothing has come up that warrants even looking at. We're talking cutthroat 1v1 here, and with the weaknesses that out lady has, we have to be overly picky with our cards just to survive. Can't afford to be cute. It gets us taken apart against any opponent that has thumbs and can walk upright.
So, with Exquisite Archangel, considering that it's a worse Platinum Angel and we don't run that... Just saying. lol
I agree with the "tuned decks" response. Wizards has generally been releasing less powerful cards in Standard that synergize with Kaalia.
As a result, most tuned decks in 1 vs. 1 and multiplayer use older cards. We are probably not going to see many powerful creatures or spells for Kaalia unless they come out in a supplementary product like Commander (i.e. a new Vintage-legal card). So, I expect more useful fodder for Kaalia decks from this year's tribal-based Commander products, if there are angels and dragons.
No angel, dragon, or demon released in the last 4 Standard blocks are powerful enough to replace anything in our current arsenal.
The criteria for an angel, demon, or dragon to be added to a Kaalia generally amounts to the following:
1) The creature cannot simply be a good damage dealer. Don't use it in favor of better creatures.
2) Does the creature have an immediate impact to the board state? (i.e. ETB or static ability)
3) Does the creature have an immediate impact to opponents? (i.e. ETB or static ability)
4) Does the creature become a bigger problem the longer opponents leave it alone (Sire of Insanity)? Does it force opponents to answer it as quickly as possible? If the creature has hexproof/shroud or protection from a color, that makes the creature more enticing to use.
5) Does the creature offer any immediate benefit to you? (Rune-Scarred Demon)
6) Does the creature suffer from "Flameblast Syndrome"? Creatures with Flameblast Syndrome will not trigger their abilities if they are put onto the battlefield tapped an attacking via Kaalia's trigger. If it does, don't use it in favor of better creatures.
7) Is the creature reasonably costed that you might be able to hard cast it in case the Kaalia game plan isn't working? Generally, our creatures will be around 5-7 mana. We might have some 8-10 mana creatures as well, but they better have some significant impact when they come online.
Thread dead? Is there any cards from the newer sets even worth running? Did anyone end up running Exquisite Archangel ???
Not dead, It's just most of us have such tuned decks that nothing has come up that warrants even looking at. We're talking cutthroat 1v1 here, and with the weaknesses that out lady has, we have to be overly picky with our cards just to survive. Can't afford to be cute. It gets us taken apart against any opponent that has thumbs and can walk upright.
So, with Exquisite Archangel, considering that it's a worse Platinum Angel and we don't run that... Just saying. lol
I agree with the "tuned decks" response. Wizards has generally been releasing less powerful cards in Standard that synergize with Kaalia.
As a result, most tuned decks in 1 vs. 1 and multiplayer use older cards. We are probably not going to see many powerful creatures or spells for Kaalia unless they come out in a supplementary product like Commander (i.e. a new Vintage-legal card). So, I expect more useful fodder for Kaalia decks from this year's tribal-based Commander products, if there are angels and dragons.
No angel, dragon, or demon released in the last 4 Standard blocks are powerful enough to replace anything in our current arsenal.
The criteria for an angel, demon, or dragon to be added to a Kaalia generally amounts to the following:
1) The creature cannot simply be a good damage dealer. Don't use it in favor of better creatures.
2) Does the creature have an immediate impact to the board state? (i.e. ETB or static ability)
3) Does the creature have an immediate impact to opponents? (i.e. ETB or static ability)
4) Does the creature become a bigger problem the longer opponents leave it alone (Sire of Insanity)? Does it force opponents to answer it as quickly as possible? If the creature has hexproof/shroud or protection from a color, that makes the creature more enticing to use.
5) Does the creature offer any immediate benefit to you? (Rune-Scarred Demon)
6) Does the creature suffer from "Flameblast Syndrome"? Creatures with Flameblast Syndrome will not trigger their abilities if they are put onto the battlefield tapped an attacking via Kaalia's trigger. If it does, don't use it in favor of better creatures.
7) Is the creature reasonably costed that you might be able to hard cast it in case the Kaalia game plan isn't working? Generally, our creatures will be around 5-7 mana. We might have some 8-10 mana creatures as well, but they better have some significant impact when they come online.
Honestly, I don't think that we'll be getting anything better then we've already gotten. not just in regards to beef, but we were luckier then we should have been with the last 3 cards that have made their way in some of our decks. Hero's Downfall, Utter End, and Anguished Unmaking I think being the last 3 cards that at least made us think.. MAYBE Dusk // Dawn? Honestly, unless it's beef that will do a insta win for us, it will be a 2 drop tutor... We have the best of everything that we could get.
that's what i mean. this overhaul doesn't seem to be reflected in the beginning post of the thread. it's like there were major changes talked about and made, but never updated in the actual list.
that's what i mean. this overhaul doesn't seem to be reflected in the beginning post of the thread. it's like there were major changes talked about and made, but never updated in the actual list.
Yes, they are shown in the list. The old list is under "Legacy Decklist". What is the main decklist is called the "Fellowship Decklist". The two lists play very differently. I know and understand why 3Drinks overhauled the list, but, I prefer running something closer to the old list. It's more my style and in my meta, the changes that I did work better. And I think the old list is more fun. I will admit that the Fellowship list is far more competitive though. Just not my flagon of mead.
And yes. As mean and cruel as the first list is, 3Drinks managed to raise the bar.
We can blink Rune-Scarred Demon or reanimate it, but to abuse this guy would require a slightly different Kaalia build, right? A typical Kaalia build doesn't have a token engine or many creatures on the board to act as sacrifice fodder. I guess you could use it in the way as Phyrexian Tower or similar card in the sense that you can get value out of a creature destined to die from an opponent's action.
Very powerful. I don't see him making the cut. You aren't running anywhere enough creatures to power it enough. Granted, it IS a 8/8 flample. But even in my build (93% your old legacy build, had to make a few meta changes lol), not enough creatures. Almost every creature you'll cast is either a one shot win, or you want to keep them out. Best case is to live the dream of rune-scar into him, into GG...
this is definitely not the same list as at the beginning of the primer. is the one in the link just a re-thinking/different approach and the list on the primer still the offical stance of things?
Counter-point: We can't activate this super often. But how many free-to-hand universal tutours do you need to win a game? One trigger, maybe a second?
I'm not saying that it isn't powerful. He's scary, though no Griselbrand. I'm just thinking that you aren't running enough creatures to get him to trigger even once most of the time. Hell, I'm running your Legacy version (that runs roughly twice as many creatures) and I think that even then I'm still light on creatures to sac even once.
Your Fellowship list runs only 16 creatures total besides the missus. Out of those, we can count out Tidehollow Sculler, Master of Cruelties, Sire of Insanity, and Iona, Shield of Emeria as cards that we wouldn't trade out to tutor for something. Either we sorta really want them to stay out because of what they do by just sitting out, or in the case of Master of Cruelties, we just one shot'd them. A few others that we could add to this list to a lesser extent would also be Grand Abolisher, Blinding Angel, Baneslayer Angel, and Steel Hellkite. This is leaving you with almost so few of targets that you'd almost have to tutor for one of the remaining creatures just so you can sac it to the beast. You'd actually be running one fewer target just to make room for him in the deck.
I'm not saying that he's bad or anything. Let's face it, a 8/8 flample is nothing to laugh at. It could end the game in just a few swings by himself. I would prefer to run something like Gisela, Blade of Goldnight instead though.
Though... If you do include him, that might make a case for finally slotting in Bitterblossom...
Counter-point: We can't activate this super often. But how many free-to-hand universal tutours do you need to win a game? One trigger, maybe a second?
I'm not saying that it isn't powerful. He's scary, though no Griselbrand. I'm just thinking that you aren't running enough creatures to get him to trigger even once most of the time. Hell, I'm running your Legacy version (that runs roughly twice as many creatures) and I think that even then I'm still light on creatures to sac even once.
Your Fellowship list runs only 16 creatures total besides the missus. Out of those, we can count out Tidehollow Sculler, Master of Cruelties, Sire of Insanity, and Iona, Shield of Emeria as cards that we wouldn't trade out to tutor for something. Either we sorta really want them to stay out because of what they do by just sitting out, or in the case of Master of Cruelties, we just one shot'd them. A few others that we could add to this list to a lesser extent would also be Grand Abolisher, Blinding Angel, Baneslayer Angel, and Steel Hellkite. This is leaving you with almost so few of targets that you'd almost have to tutor for one of the remaining creatures just so you can sac it to the beast. You'd actually be running one fewer target just to make room for him in the deck.
I'm not saying that he's bad or anything. Let's face it, a 8/8 flample is nothing to laugh at. It could end the game in just a few swings by himself. I would prefer to run something like Gisela, Blade of Goldnight instead though.
Though... If you do include him, that might make a case for finally slotting in Bitterblossom...
I really need to get to theory crafting this Wildfire version. Been doing Alesha things, Zurgo things, 1v1 things, now Glissa and Jund Partners things for ages...
I just know, for sure, there's definitely a case to be made for something that tutours virtually at-will for no mana investment.
This is a sideboard/second-tier option at best.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
You need a more controlling style, tbh. Also, the list here isn't tuned for DC, as DC Kaalia has been a bit of a dicey topic to really find a good, working balance.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kaalia-of-the-vast-multiplayer-3/
So I moved to a new area and from what I can tell no one plays 1v1 Traditional Commander in this new area, so I am converting my Kaalia deck to a Multiplayer deck. However I need to cut 7 cards and I am very lost and what hoping the experts here could enlighten me.
and are fast mana such as Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond worth including?
I don't think these cards are that great in the multiplayer deck.
Angel of Deliverance: It has no immediate board impact when it enters the battlefield. It requires delirium, which you might not have at a given point in time. It costs 8 mana.
Bruna, the Fading Light: Does not combo with Kaalia's ability or Quicksilver Amulet, because it needs to be cast. It costs 7 mana. You're not going to get the meld creature very often.
Hanweir Battlements: It costs red mana to provide haste. You might need that mana elsewhere.
Archfiend of Depravity: The discard ability is not strong enough. Against control and combo decks, Sire of Insanity is better.
Tragic Arrogance: This often plays against you in multiplayer.
Aurelia, the Warleader: Does not combo off Kaalia, requiring you to hard cast. Its haste ability helps trigger its second ability, though.
Winter Orb: Your deck isn't a stax deck, so this doesn't synergize with the deck. I don't think it won't stop a combo deck from going off.
Resolute Archangel: Too weak for its cost, although resetting life is tempting.
I'm not a fan of the Moxes, as they remove cards from your deck, which can be risky. If the environment is very competitive, then you may need to keep them.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
@rkjunior - Casting of 8 and to 6 to use, seems a bit too steep. I have not tried but I might try it, thought I am doubtful.
https://www.facebook.com/THEmtg3drinks/posts/1451997144820498
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Not dead, It's just most of us have such tuned decks that nothing has come up that warrants even looking at. We're talking cutthroat 1v1 here, and with the weaknesses that out lady has, we have to be overly picky with our cards just to survive. Can't afford to be cute. It gets us taken apart against any opponent that has thumbs and can walk upright.
So, with Exquisite Archangel, considering that it's a worse Platinum Angel and we don't run that... Just saying. lol
Goblin Green Acres
I agree with the "tuned decks" response. Wizards has generally been releasing less powerful cards in Standard that synergize with Kaalia.
As a result, most tuned decks in 1 vs. 1 and multiplayer use older cards. We are probably not going to see many powerful creatures or spells for Kaalia unless they come out in a supplementary product like Commander (i.e. a new Vintage-legal card). So, I expect more useful fodder for Kaalia decks from this year's tribal-based Commander products, if there are angels and dragons.
No angel, dragon, or demon released in the last 4 Standard blocks are powerful enough to replace anything in our current arsenal.
The criteria for an angel, demon, or dragon to be added to a Kaalia generally amounts to the following:
1) The creature cannot simply be a good damage dealer. Don't use it in favor of better creatures.
2) Does the creature have an immediate impact to the board state? (i.e. ETB or static ability)
3) Does the creature have an immediate impact to opponents? (i.e. ETB or static ability)
4) Does the creature become a bigger problem the longer opponents leave it alone (Sire of Insanity)? Does it force opponents to answer it as quickly as possible? If the creature has hexproof/shroud or protection from a color, that makes the creature more enticing to use.
5) Does the creature offer any immediate benefit to you? (Rune-Scarred Demon)
6) Does the creature suffer from "Flameblast Syndrome"? Creatures with Flameblast Syndrome will not trigger their abilities if they are put onto the battlefield tapped an attacking via Kaalia's trigger. If it does, don't use it in favor of better creatures.
7) Is the creature reasonably costed that you might be able to hard cast it in case the Kaalia game plan isn't working? Generally, our creatures will be around 5-7 mana. We might have some 8-10 mana creatures as well, but they better have some significant impact when they come online.
Goblin Green Acres
Depends on what you mean by being out of the loop for a very long time. He did a fairly major overhaul to the "Fellowship" version a while ago...
Goblin Green Acres
Yes, they are shown in the list. The old list is under "Legacy Decklist". What is the main decklist is called the "Fellowship Decklist". The two lists play very differently. I know and understand why 3Drinks overhauled the list, but, I prefer running something closer to the old list. It's more my style and in my meta, the changes that I did work better. And I think the old list is more fun. I will admit that the Fellowship list is far more competitive though. Just not my flagon of mead.
And yes. As mean and cruel as the first list is, 3Drinks managed to raise the bar.
Goblin Green Acres
Hmm. You don't say................
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
We can blink Rune-Scarred Demon or reanimate it, but to abuse this guy would require a slightly different Kaalia build, right? A typical Kaalia build doesn't have a token engine or many creatures on the board to act as sacrifice fodder. I guess you could use it in the way as Phyrexian Tower or similar card in the sense that you can get value out of a creature destined to die from an opponent's action.
Very powerful. I don't see him making the cut. You aren't running anywhere enough creatures to power it enough. Granted, it IS a 8/8 flample. But even in my build (93% your old legacy build, had to make a few meta changes lol), not enough creatures. Almost every creature you'll cast is either a one shot win, or you want to keep them out. Best case is to live the dream of rune-scar into him, into GG...
Goblin Green Acres
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kaalia-of-the-vast-2016-redux/
this is definitely not the same list as at the beginning of the primer. is the one in the link just a re-thinking/different approach and the list on the primer still the offical stance of things?
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I'm not saying that it isn't powerful. He's scary, though no Griselbrand. I'm just thinking that you aren't running enough creatures to get him to trigger even once most of the time. Hell, I'm running your Legacy version (that runs roughly twice as many creatures) and I think that even then I'm still light on creatures to sac even once.
Your Fellowship list runs only 16 creatures total besides the missus. Out of those, we can count out Tidehollow Sculler, Master of Cruelties, Sire of Insanity, and Iona, Shield of Emeria as cards that we wouldn't trade out to tutor for something. Either we sorta really want them to stay out because of what they do by just sitting out, or in the case of Master of Cruelties, we just one shot'd them. A few others that we could add to this list to a lesser extent would also be Grand Abolisher, Blinding Angel, Baneslayer Angel, and Steel Hellkite. This is leaving you with almost so few of targets that you'd almost have to tutor for one of the remaining creatures just so you can sac it to the beast. You'd actually be running one fewer target just to make room for him in the deck.
I'm not saying that he's bad or anything. Let's face it, a 8/8 flample is nothing to laugh at. It could end the game in just a few swings by himself. I would prefer to run something like Gisela, Blade of Goldnight instead though.
Though... If you do include him, that might make a case for finally slotting in Bitterblossom...
Goblin Green Acres
I really need to get to theory crafting this Wildfire version. Been doing Alesha things, Zurgo things, 1v1 things, now Glissa and Jund Partners things for ages...
I just know, for sure, there's definitely a case to be made for something that tutours virtually at-will for no mana investment.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.