Uh ok so I have been testing Bruna, The Fading Light and in a deck with tutors and Nahiri, the Harbinger's ultimate, that brisela meld thing is actually a lockout strategy you can legitimately go for. But in addition, the "when bruna is cast" condition has actually been great against control decks. Even if you counter bruna, the reanimate trigger still happens and I have taken so much advantage of it. Bringing back iona post-sweeper was a laugh, and I can leave my unresolved kaalia in the grave once or twice for a really nasty surprise, with or without cavern of souls online.
I actually play without arena now, and I'm not running out of gas at all, even late game. But I did do the responsible thing and replaced it with another draw spell, painful truths. Think about it, assuming you cast painful truths with max colors, it'll take 4 turns for phyrexian arena to overtake that benefit, 5 if you include the turn you cast it. I run that card with read the bones, night's whisper, skeletal scrying and dark confidant and I end up having all I really need. Problem with arena is that control decks that understand its power will never let it resolve and green decks will whack it with a reclamation sage ASAP while my one-time draw spells get to do their work almost every time.
The only reason I'm advising An4ria to play it is because he doesn't have liliana of the veil yet, and at that mana cost, Arena's the next best thing I can think of.
Phyrexian Arena is for the long game, so it's more applicable in multiplayer than in DC. Also, if you can get your mana base right and can spare the life, Necropotence is still pretty good.
Good point. My list is generally run during multiplayer games, even if it's not quite optimized for it. It's a lot of fun and I usually get hated out quick unless i can get a t4 lockout.
Sorry off topic, but kaya, ghost assassin needs a spot in my deck. That -2 with her ability to blink makes the useless -1 worth it. She's jace beleren on mind steroids. Simultaneous CA and hand disrupt is nasty.
@wagenfratz you have really good timing, I was just about to edit that. My deck does run command tower, but in my deckbuilder app I happened to miss it, and I typed the list based on my app. Anyway long story short, clifftop retreat should be command tower. Thanks for noticing, will edit it now.
On that note though, I've made changes yet again. 3 to be exact. Not exactly drastic ones, but again I won't put up the list until I playtest. Although from test drawing, I like the changes, and the deck feels a bit more dangerous.
1.) Boseiju + Mind shatter combo has been removed: Amazing in stalemates vs control, completely dead draws everywhere else. Since in my case "everywhere else" happens more often, I'm switching it out. I switched mind shatter out for hymn to tourach, and Boseiju for volrath's stronghold, which I'm explaining below.
2.) Volrath's stronghold: more beaters = more stuff to bring back from the grave. Bruna, the fading light reminded me of that. Late game, in a stalemate vs heavy permission/removal, I'd rather just keep topdecking my dead creatures. Rather than holding a Mind shatter and waiting for boseiju or vice versa.
3.) Nomad outpost for eiganjo castle: So obviously we lose the rainbow coloring, so I'll enumerate what we gain from the cut. Eiganjo comes in untapped, gives us W which is relevant since I added a few more angels, and the damage prevention is relevant for Keranos, any pyroclasm effects, and occasionally prevents a trade in combat (geist is a very relevant example). Have not executed this particular one yet because I don't have one yet.
So 1, 2 and 3 are definitely gonna stick no matter how playtesting goes.. the next one is experimental.
4.) Phyrexian tower: To go with volrath's stronghold, plain and simple. Also, expedition map is in the same list so getting 2 together isn't as tough (but not something you should necessarily actively go for). But I will NOT cut a colored land for this, and among the utility colorless lands I rank this the lowest. My decision was to cut fire covenant. Yep, this experiment makes me run 41 lands, which is a bit unheard of in a Kaalia deck. So far in testing, I've been flooded quite a bit, but that has been good for the deck so far. There's always something to do with that mana. The only way this change won't stick is if I lose too many aggro matches because I didn't have fire covenant. I doubt it because apart from toxic D, Damnation and Sudden demise, there's a crap ton of spot removal in the list. I have also had many drawn out matches with aggro decks to the point that casting fire C kills me.
ADDENDUM: PLAY DRAGONSKULL SUMMIT INSTEAD OF GEMSTONE MINE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. I apologize for vouching for this card. Seriously. Just don't.
You know what I'm 90% sure this list will do at least slightly better than the last one, so I'll just post it and let you guys know how playtesting goes. Testing is just confirmatory at this point since the recent lists I've been running have been as optimized to the meta as can be.
Fine tune as you like based on preference. Here are probably things you'd like to consider..
1.) If you're iffy about 41 lands (don't blame you but seriously it's not bad), you can cut command beacon for P tower. Both are so good though.
2.) If you're game for 41 but love fire covenant so much (can't blame you for this either), and if you think running TWO blood moon effects in a tricolor deck is a little extreme, you can cut magus of the moon. Again though, we have tons of life loss effects via our draw spells, ouch lands, fetch lands and untapped shocks and as good as Fire C is, I've concluded that it's a risk not worth taking.
3.) If you agree with me that fire covenant is something this deck can live without, but you do think that two blood moon effects are a little extreme, you can cut magus of the moon. Replacements can be more hand disrupt, or grand abolisher. In general when tweaking the list, always keep in mind that the worst matchup is control.
4.) Demonic consultation may be in my list, but this should be grim tutor. Always had to be. Consistency beats high risk/reward in competitive play. However the power of consultation is undeniable, and I'm still waiting for my grim tutor in the mail.
Cataclysm wastes the potential for asymmetry that avacyn brings. armageddon gives you more of a sure win coz you preserve your manabase while hosing theirs. Also i'm not a fan of throwing kaalia under the bus after using her to cheat a huge creature out, but that's just me and my attachments hehe
ok so if you've seen the card, being the monarch means you draw an extra card but if an opponent deals combat dmg to you he becomes the new monarch..
I was wondering if anyone knows as early as now if this mechanic is commander applicable or limited only to conspiracy drafts. I'd appreciate even a wild guess haha
Thanks man. Yo reaper how would you build around her? So far i've tested out a proxied control variant full of sweepers, removal, hand disrupt and planeswalkers as finishers and it went 50-50 against aggro which is so-so, but geist tends to just take the crown and keep it.
I tested an aggro/disrupt variant but it was even worse. The best creatures use double white, double black or double red, even triple sometimes so even an optimized manabase made it noticably clunky compared to either mono red or anything with green. I might just go multi with her but I'm hoping someone cracks a good duel commander formula.
Didn't bother with midrange because kaalia rules in that dept with her ability to end games at will.
Sorry 3drinks for the non kaalia topic btw. It is however slightly relevant because mardu generals don't come around too often.
Thanks man. Yo reaper how would you build around her? So far i've tested out a proxied control variant full of sweepers, removal, hand disrupt and planeswalkers as finishers and it went 50-50 against aggro which is so-so, but geist tends to just take the crown and keep it.
I tested an aggro/disrupt variant but it was even worse. The best creatures use double white, double black or double red, even triple sometimes so even an optimized manabase made it noticably clunky compared to either mono red or anything with green. I might just go multi with her but I'm hoping someone cracks a good duel commander formula.
Didn't bother with midrange because kaalia rules in that dept with her ability to end games at will.
Sorry 3drinks for the non kaalia topic btw. It is however slightly relevant because mardu generals don't come around too often.
For 1v1 I would go control and for multi I would go stax. I'm currently brewing a DC list and ill eithor pm you the list and we can discuss their or we can discuss in the primer 3drinks is inevitably going to make.
That feedback on geist is good information btw. Ill take that into consideration and add more edicts.
You know what after thinking about it long enough, I'm going to have to agree with you on that. I guess the difference between us is I'm willing to pay the extra 2 and give up instant-speed win potential for a hard tutor that opponents don't get to see, in order to prevent the abysmal library state that usually comes with consultation. I guess to summarize pros and cons, consultation can win more games but has to be timed perfectly, while grim waaaayy slower but outside of the natural consequences of it being slower, has not horrible price to pay for it. Tie breaker is store price hehe. I would never suggest to someone who doesn't have grim to buy one for kaalia, because the addition of the card is a minor tweak at best.
You know what after thinking about it long enough, I'm going to have to agree with you on that. I guess the difference between us is I'm willing to pay the extra 2 and give up instant-speed win potential for a hard tutor that opponents don't get to see, in order to prevent the abysmal library state that usually comes with consultation. I guess to summarize pros and cons, consultation can win more games but has to be timed perfectly, while grim waaaayy slower but outside of the natural consequences of it being slower, has not horrible price to pay for it. Tie breaker is store price hehe. I would never suggest to someone who doesn't have grim to buy one for kaalia, because the addition of the card is a minor tweak at best.
I never advise based on monetary conditions as that leads to suboptimal decklists. if I need a card, I need a card. If moxen were suddenly legal, I'd "need" them...or I'd just stop playing b/c I don't want to invest into a mortgage payment for cards (ignore the fact I have an italian Moat solely for Kaalia).
With that said, the library state doesn't matter really. I'm gonna spend my B in response to a trigger and get my kill condition. Period. Either I get MoC and you're dead, or I flip him in the 6 and lose.
Yep that's exactly what I mean about consultation being situational. You need to have one foot at out of the match already. Grim tutor can help whether or not you're in the do-or-die state. I just prefer the latter. If I had the room though I swear I'd play both.
And I'm not one to judge cards by price either, but $0.20 vs $280 is at least worth mentioning you know Although the very idea of unbanning power 9.. I'd retire as well.
Yep that's exactly what I mean about consultation being situational. You need to have one foot at out of the match already. Grim tutor can help whether or not you're in the do-or-die state. I just prefer the latter. If I had the room though I swear I'd play both.
Yep that's exactly what I mean about consultation being situational. You need to have one foot at out of the match already. Grim tutor can help whether or not you're in the do-or-die state. I just prefer the latter. If I had the room though I swear I'd play both.
When I get my Grim located...I'm playing both.
Maybe it's in Conspiracy 2. Ha, that would be a racket.
Good point. My list is generally run during multiplayer games, even if it's not quite optimized for it. It's a lot of fun and I usually get hated out quick unless i can get a t4 lockout.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
Good point. My list is generally run during multiplayer games, even if it's not quite optimized for it. It's a lot of fun and I usually get hated out quick unless i can get a t4 lockout. [/quote]
What is your "t4 lockout" strategy in your deck? Armageddon with Kaalia online?
Sorry off topic, but kaya, ghost assassin needs a spot in my deck. That -2 with her ability to blink makes the useless -1 worth it. She's jace beleren on mind steroids. Simultaneous CA and hand disrupt is nasty.
On that note though, I've made changes yet again. 3 to be exact. Not exactly drastic ones, but again I won't put up the list until I playtest. Although from test drawing, I like the changes, and the deck feels a bit more dangerous.
1.) Boseiju + Mind shatter combo has been removed: Amazing in stalemates vs control, completely dead draws everywhere else. Since in my case "everywhere else" happens more often, I'm switching it out. I switched mind shatter out for hymn to tourach, and Boseiju for volrath's stronghold, which I'm explaining below.
2.) Volrath's stronghold: more beaters = more stuff to bring back from the grave. Bruna, the fading light reminded me of that. Late game, in a stalemate vs heavy permission/removal, I'd rather just keep topdecking my dead creatures. Rather than holding a Mind shatter and waiting for boseiju or vice versa.
3.) Nomad outpost for eiganjo castle: So obviously we lose the rainbow coloring, so I'll enumerate what we gain from the cut. Eiganjo comes in untapped, gives us W which is relevant since I added a few more angels, and the damage prevention is relevant for Keranos, any pyroclasm effects, and occasionally prevents a trade in combat (geist is a very relevant example). Have not executed this particular one yet because I don't have one yet.
So 1, 2 and 3 are definitely gonna stick no matter how playtesting goes.. the next one is experimental.
4.) Phyrexian tower: To go with volrath's stronghold, plain and simple. Also, expedition map is in the same list so getting 2 together isn't as tough (but not something you should necessarily actively go for). But I will NOT cut a colored land for this, and among the utility colorless lands I rank this the lowest. My decision was to cut fire covenant. Yep, this experiment makes me run 41 lands, which is a bit unheard of in a Kaalia deck. So far in testing, I've been flooded quite a bit, but that has been good for the deck so far. There's always something to do with that mana. The only way this change won't stick is if I lose too many aggro matches because I didn't have fire covenant. I doubt it because apart from toxic D, Damnation and Sudden demise, there's a crap ton of spot removal in the list. I have also had many drawn out matches with aggro decks to the point that casting fire C kills me.
ADDENDUM: PLAY DRAGONSKULL SUMMIT INSTEAD OF GEMSTONE MINE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. I apologize for vouching for this card. Seriously. Just don't.
Changes in all caps.
1 Kaalia of the Vast
BEATERS (12)
Four drops
1 Gisela, the Broken Blade
Five drops
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Master of Cruelties
1 Stormbreath Dragon
Six drops
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Rakdos The Defiler
Seven drops
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Bruna, the Fading Light
Eight drops
1 Griselbrand
Nine drops
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
PROTECTION (3)
1 Mother of Runes
1 Earnest Fellowship
1 Defense Grid
HAND DISRUPT (7)
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Distress
1 Castigate
1 Collective Brutality
1 HYMN TO TOURACH
CARD ADVANTAGE (5)
1 Night's Whisper
1 Read The Bones
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Painful Truths
1 Dark Confidant
HASTE (2)
1 Dragon Tempest
1 Lightning Greaves
REMOVAL (12)
For creatures only
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Dismember
1 Go for the throat
1 Withering Boon
1 Dreadbore
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Lightning Bolt
For nonland permanents
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Council's Judgment
For permanents
1 Vindicate
For artifacts/enchantments only
1 Hide // Seek
1 Wear // Tear
TUTORS (6)
For artifacts/enchantments only
1 Enlightened Tutor
For Any Card
1 Demonic tutor
1 Gamble
"Mill" Tutor
1 Tainted Pact
Suicidal "Mill" Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation/GRIM TUTOR
For Lands Only
1 Expedition Map
WALKERS (2)
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
SWEEPERS (3)
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Sudden Demise
1 Damnation
MANA ROCKS (2)
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
TECH VS NON-BASIC USERS (2)
1 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
MASS LAND DESTRUCTION (1)
1 Ravages of War
OTHER (1)
1 Bitterblossom
LANDS (41)
Core Manabase
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Caves of Koilos
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Fetid Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 DRAGONSKULL SUMMIT
1 Godless Shrine
1 Graven Cairns
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Mana Confluence
1 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
1 EIGANJO CASTLE
1 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting pool
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Snow-covered Plains
1 Snow-covered Swamp
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Wasteland
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Hall of The Bandit Lord
1 VOLRATH'S STRONGHOLD
1 Command Beacon
1 Homeward Path
1 PHYREXIAN TOWER
Fine tune as you like based on preference. Here are probably things you'd like to consider..
1.) If you're iffy about 41 lands (don't blame you but seriously it's not bad), you can cut command beacon for P tower. Both are so good though.
2.) If you're game for 41 but love fire covenant so much (can't blame you for this either), and if you think running TWO blood moon effects in a tricolor deck is a little extreme, you can cut magus of the moon. Again though, we have tons of life loss effects via our draw spells, ouch lands, fetch lands and untapped shocks and as good as Fire C is, I've concluded that it's a risk not worth taking.
3.) If you agree with me that fire covenant is something this deck can live without, but you do think that two blood moon effects are a little extreme, you can cut magus of the moon. Replacements can be more hand disrupt, or grand abolisher. In general when tweaking the list, always keep in mind that the worst matchup is control.
4.) Demonic consultation may be in my list, but this should be grim tutor. Always had to be. Consistency beats high risk/reward in competitive play. However the power of consultation is undeniable, and I'm still waiting for my grim tutor in the mail.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/conspiracy-take-the-crown/27475-queen-marchesa
ok so if you've seen the card, being the monarch means you draw an extra card but if an opponent deals combat dmg to you he becomes the new monarch..
I was wondering if anyone knows as early as now if this mechanic is commander applicable or limited only to conspiracy drafts. I'd appreciate even a wild guess haha
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I tested an aggro/disrupt variant but it was even worse. The best creatures use double white, double black or double red, even triple sometimes so even an optimized manabase made it noticably clunky compared to either mono red or anything with green. I might just go multi with her but I'm hoping someone cracks a good duel commander formula.
Didn't bother with midrange because kaalia rules in that dept with her ability to end games at will.
Sorry 3drinks for the non kaalia topic btw. It is however slightly relevant because mardu generals don't come around too often.
That feedback on geist is good information btw. Ill take that into consideration and add more edicts.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Avacyn doesn't do anything vs your 'Clysm...(and I haven't played Avacyn in ages lol, she is bad. Not "bad" - just meh. Too defensive.)
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
You know what after thinking about it long enough, I'm going to have to agree with you on that. I guess the difference between us is I'm willing to pay the extra 2 and give up instant-speed win potential for a hard tutor that opponents don't get to see, in order to prevent the abysmal library state that usually comes with consultation. I guess to summarize pros and cons, consultation can win more games but has to be timed perfectly, while grim waaaayy slower but outside of the natural consequences of it being slower, has not horrible price to pay for it. Tie breaker is store price hehe. I would never suggest to someone who doesn't have grim to buy one for kaalia, because the addition of the card is a minor tweak at best.
I never advise based on monetary conditions as that leads to suboptimal decklists. if I need a card, I need a card. If moxen were suddenly legal, I'd "need" them...or I'd just stop playing b/c I don't want to invest into a mortgage payment for cards (ignore the fact I have an italian Moat solely for Kaalia).
With that said, the library state doesn't matter really. I'm gonna spend my B in response to a trigger and get my kill condition. Period. Either I get MoC and you're dead, or I flip him in the 6 and lose.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
It's commander applicable (and Legacy/Vintage applicable).
When I get my Grim located...I'm playing both.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Maybe it's in Conspiracy 2. Ha, that would be a racket.