My bad on the divining top. I still get 1-vs-1 mixed up with multiplayer at times.
As far as the equipment, I stand behind the boots (which protect your dude and allow you to keep up tempo if your dude dies), the bonesplitter (As casting and equipping on turn 2 can legitimately shave a full turn off of the clock) and either the soup or Trailblazer's Boots for reusable unblockability that doesn't block Arahbo.
I'm kind of agnostic on the topic of tutors, I'll admit. Of those in the list above, my primary interests are: Green Sun's Zenith: basically a creature (even if you pay more for it) Survival of the Fittest: REALLY should've been banned but might allow us to grab Mother of Runes, Ulvenwald Tracker, Qasali Pridemage, Leonin Relic-warder, Selfless Spirit, or Heretic Cathar/Imposing Sovereign to slow blockers. While this is not a deck of silver bullets, the ability to grab what few answers we do have is still important. Worldly Tutor: While speed and utility are far lower than SotF, I can imagine a surprising number of scenarios in which you would not want to drop a 2-drop on turn 2 with this deck (such as throwing down an aura or saving mana for a trick) and a huge number where you have a free mana by turn 3. In those cases, using your spare mana to ensure that you get a worthwhile draw next turn can be a life-saver. Enlightened Tutor: If we end our third turn with a Rancor-loaded kitty and a Winter Orb or Static Orb, we are in a VERY good place. Enlightened tutor helps to make that possible.
Honestly, Arahbo feels like a pretty odd deck. It doesn't really want or need more than two creatures on the field at any given point (one that won't have summoning sickness if the other is killed) and wants to win the game by turn 5 or 6 (if I'm reading it's gameplan accurately). For that reason, Collected Company and Ranger of Eos seem a bit odd as inclusions. If you can afford the tempo break to play that spell on turn 4 and NEED that spell, you are in a very bad place. Not saying that those are bad cards for the deck. Just interested in hearing how they would realistically slot into play.
I don't know, though. Maybe I'm still living in magical-christmas-land. If so, one of you smack some sense into me.
My reasoning is that it is possible to play the tutors without setting back your clock because of how cheap they are. If you use rancor/gryff's boon/flickering ward/oppressive rays/natural state/path of exile/swords to plowshares/a 1-drop cat/saving mana for a trick like emerged unscathed on turn 2 (or just drop a 2-drop cat on turn 3), you can still have one mana open for a tutor while still working towards the turn 5-6 win (the difference between a leonin arbiter and a jungle lion may be limited in many games, for example).
Meanwhile, Collected Company gets you cats that can attack on turn 5 while Ranger of Eos gets you cats that can attack on turn 6... assuming that you get enough mana in a deck with a very low curve and no acceleration. These cards are useful for coming back if all of our cats are killed... but that is kind of the problem. Arahbo, or at least hyper-aggressive Arahbo, doesn't seem equipped to survive into any sort of mid-game or late-game. If your opponent stabilized and start casting bigger creatures, we start losing the race (as we can only buff one cat each round).
As such, playing cards to help us in the mid-game or late-game seems a bit counter-intuitive to me whereas playing tutors that can slip easily into early-game plays makes sense to me. Am I being a bit too pessimistic here? Does this deck have a chance going for plan b?
...and now I'm left wondering if we should invest in elvish spirit guide for the possibility of more resilient starts (2 cats or cat + god's willing mana).
Not a fan of Might of Old Krosa, surprisingly. Generally, you may want to save your combat tricks until after Arahbo buffs your dude so that your opponent can't just respond with a lightning bolt and 2-1 you.
I like Vines of Vastwood, Blossoming Defense, and any combination of the white 1 drops that grant protection. The first two can actually act as buff spells, the protection spells can help you slip past blockers, and all of these can blank an opponent's kill spell if they cast one in response to Arahbo's trigger.
Not a fan of Might of Old Krosa, surprisingly. Generally, you may want to save your combat tricks until after Arahbo buffs your dude so that your opponent can't just respond with a lightning bolt and 2-1 you.
I like Vines of Vastwood, Blossoming Defense, and any combination of the white 1 drops that grant protection. The first two can actually act as buff spells, the protection spells can help you slip past blockers, and all of these can blank an opponent's kill spell if they cast one in response to Arahbo's trigger.
Like Modern Infect, it's high-risk, high-reward. They either have the answer, or not.
That said, I'm more a fan of Stonewood Invocation myself, although four for a +5/+5 is a lot. Shroud and split second can be clutch though. Berserk 100% belongs here solely because you can open on t1 Steppe Lynx and hit for 14 on t2. If you were on the play...? That's 14 before they make their second land drop. And Berserk is still crazy good with anything else you have.
Like Modern Infect, it's high-risk, high-reward. They either have the answer, or not.
I guess that I can understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, there's a huge difference between this cat deck and modern infect that impacts the usefulness of Might of Old Krosa. Namely, the clock. In an average infect deck, throwing a Might on a Blighted Agent or Glistener Elf means bringing your opponent several turns closer to death if your gambit pays off.
For cats, however, that math doesn't quite add up.
Let's say that we Drop Savannah Lions (or some comparable cat) on turn 1. If our opponent can't kill or block the cat, we win on turn 5 (15 life on turn 2, 10 life on turn 3, 5 life on turn 4, and 0 life on turn 5).
If we use Rancor or Bonesplitter, the persistent boost of +2 power allows us to win on turn 4 instead (13 Life on turn 2, 6 life on turn 3, and -1 life on turn 4).
If we get a single bonus from Might of Old Krosa, however, we are still on the same turn 5 clock (11 life on turn 2, 6 life on turn 3, 1 life on turn 4, and -4 life on turn 5). It doesn't kill the opponent even one turn faster without additional support.
While it is true that the boost gives our opponent less wiggle room and makes it easier for secondary attackers to matter, this deck gets far less utility out of Might than Infect does. For a buff to be worthwhile in this deck, I'd personally think that it needs to be cheap (cutting out the invocation) and must either protect the creature, help damage sneak through, or grant a bonus of at least +5 power.
You're on the Mutagenic/Vines/Berserk plan. If Groundswell/Old Krosa isn't efficient, then suddenly Giant Growth and the others aren't either. There aren't any other pup spells that offer +5 power and are 1 cmc. Although, you might consider Riding the Dilu Horse for obvious reasons.
You might, however, also consider Ring of Kalonia as damage over time for 1) when the cat sticks, you grow it slowly, and 2) prevents the cat in question from being chumped. If you're attacking with just one, then Cathedral of War might be in order?
Like Modern Infect, it's high-risk, high-reward. They either have the answer, or not.
If we get a single bonus from Might of Old Krosa, however, we are still on the same turn 5 clock (11 life on turn 2, 6 life on turn 3, 1 life on turn 4, and -4 life on turn 5). It doesn't kill the opponent even one turn faster without additional support.
I do agree that these cards need to be cheap. Anything costing 3 or 4 mana is not worth it at all, in my opinion. But Giant Growth is a lightning bolt, and lightning bolts are absolutely efficient enough for the 20-life format.
Ring of Kalonia is actually something I considered. I like the growth and evasion, though it would be one of the most expensive buffs in the entire deck.
Cathedral of war I am torn on. I actually looked at several exalted cards other than the pridemage but an recurring boost needs to grant a +2 bonus to speed up the clock. Plus,the cathedral is pretty bad for mana as it comes out tapped in a fast deck and provides colorless in a two-color deck with a very low curve.
Titsnic growth can definitely work. Forgot about that card. Just this morning, however, I was thinking of miracle. While using miracle cards in the 99 is always a gamble, both blessings of nature and revenge of the hunted have the potential to speed up the clock for one mana... especially if we are still running mirri's guile and sylvan library.
Is Mirri's Guile really good in this type of deck? Seems slow and card disadvantage in most games.
Ring of Kalonia is insanely slow and mana-intensive; seems horrible in this style of the deck.
I love the Miracle cards though; definitely adds to the all-in plan!
EDIT: having second thoughts already about miracles For a fast deck, you start with 7 cards in hand and are trying to win by say turn 5 at the latest. That really means turns 2-5 are the ones where drawing this would help. So that's 4/99. For your 7/99 in your opening hand, they're horrible. And on turn 1 as well (on the draw), you won't have a creature in play yet. Even on turn 2, you sometimes won't. So basically in 8 card instances, they're very bad, and 4 they're very good. Not sure that's a good tradeoff or ratio.
Is Mirri's Guile really good in this type of deck? Seems slow and card disadvantage in most games.
Ring of Kalonia is insanely slow and mana-intensive; seems horrible in this style of the deck.
I love the Miracle cards though; definitely adds to the all-in plan!
EDIT: having second thoughts already about miracles For a fast deck, you start with 7 cards in hand and are trying to win by say turn 5 at the latest. That really means turns 2-5 are the ones where drawing this would help. So that's 4/99. For your 7/99 in your opening hand, they're horrible. And on turn 1 as well (on the draw), you won't have a creature in play yet. Even on turn 2, you sometimes won't. So basically in 8 card instances, they're very bad, and 4 they're very good. Not sure that's a good tradeoff or ratio.
Confirmed. I have this same debate with myself on Thunderous Wrath in Zurgo. Only Thunderous is more applicable, more live on anything except t1. I'm inclined to believe these green miracles are a trap too...
I just want to put things into perspective for a moment on the topic of buffs.
The all-in strategy works very quickly when it isn't stopped. Even if you only attack with a single creature for the whole game, you can win with 4 attacks. The beats in this deck are so good, however, that smaller 1-time buffs give diminished returns. Also, buff spells like mutagenic growth are half as effective as they would be in infect decks (if that even needs saying).
Above that, however, we have to concern ourselves with prioritizing buff spells. Even if you think that giant growth = lightning bolt, we have a limited number of card slots that we can reasonably spend on buffs and a wide array of better spells worth considering first. Permanent buffs effectively multiply their bonuses with each attack and evasion is generally more important than a straight-up buff (if the opponent has a blocker, giant growth is considerably less useful than emerge unscathed in getting damage through quickly).
Also, I misspoke regarding titanic growth. I got it confused with phytoburst, which does cut a full turn off of our clock.
Cards that I would Prioritize above Giant Growth
1. Rancor (evasion, speeds the clock, hard to kill)
2. Flickering Ward (Evasion, Protection, hard to kill)
3. Gryff's Boon (Evasion, hard to kill)
4. Emerge Unscathed (Evasion x2 and surprise protection for the first use)
5. Berserk (Evasion and enough extra damage to speed the clock)
6. Gods Willing (evasion/protection)
7. Brave the Elements (evasion/protection)
8. Faith's Shield (evasion/protection and can protect our winter orb or other noncreature permanents)
9. Apostle's Blessing (evasion/protection and works against artifact decks)
10. Center Soul (Strictly-worse Emerged unscathed still offers protection and gets us through for 2 attacks)
11. Bonesplitter (speeds the clock, resists creature kill)
12. Umezawa's Jitte (Speeds the clock, kills blockers)
13. Mother of Runes (protection + evasion)
14. Phytoburst (speeds the clock)
15. Hot Soup (unblockability, resists creature kill)
16. Trailblazer's Boots (unblockability, resists creature kill)
17. Blessings of the Hunt (speeds up the clock)
18. Revengee of the Hunted (speeds up the clock)
19. Vines of Vastwood (protection and buff)
20. Blossoming Defense (protection and buff)
Even sub-par auras like ordeal of nylea would be able to speed up the clock by a turn with more efficiency than giant growth. While many of those options don't grant a direct power boost, the ability to stay on track with the 5-turn clock is very important and taking out evasion to get a "lightning bolt" seems a bit self-defeating. Not saying that Giant Growth is "bad". Just that this deck has better options.
Edit: Actually, we might not need Vines of Vastwood or blossoming defense as they do comparatively little. makes some room for phytoburst/center soul/revenge of the hunted/blessings of the hunt.
Edit: Curious to see what the decklist would look like for a deck with no concept of "plan b". 100% Pure aggression decklist looks like...
This deck is built around winning by turn 6 (or, more realistically, turn 7). If you get a good creature, you can win by turn 5. When the circumstances align properly, you can pull out a win on turn 4. Before discussing specific cards at length, I just wanted to go over what lines of play lead to clocks of different length and how buffs fit into this. The following clocks are based on best-case scenarios, though they don't account for support.
Drop a 1/1 on turn 1 (other than wild nacatl or loam lion): Win on turn six. A one-time buff of +4 power reduces this to turn 5. A persistent +1 power boost by turn 2 or +2 power boost by turn 3 likewise reduces this to turn 5.
Drop a creature with 2 power on turn 1 (or wild nacatl or loam lion): Win on turn five. A one-time buff of +5 power reduces this to turn 4. A persistent +2 power boost by turn 2 reduces this to turn 4.
Drop a creature with 2 power on turn 2: Win on turn 6. A one-time buff of +5 power reduces this to turn 4. A persistent +2 power boost by turn 2 reduces this to turn 4.
Drop a creature with 3 power on turn 2: Win on turn 6. A one-time buff of +2 power reduces this to turn 5. A persistent +1 power boost by turn 4 reduces this to turn 5.
Important Note: If you can't draw into any buffs, your leonin arbiter and fleecemane lion will kill your target with equal speed. As such, we are a bit more free in including 2-drop cats that don't break the mana curve.
Cards Cut Out: Mirror Entity: While the plan-B is tempting, getting enough cats and mana to justify its use is somewhat unlikely for this deck. Likewise, any attempt to set up for this card leaves us open to mass destruction. Stoneforged Mystic/Survival of the Fittest/Steelshaper's Gift/Green Sun's Zenith/Open the Armory/Worldly Tutor: Removing most of the tutors to focus on what counts. Our artifacts and enchantments are (barely) toolbox-ish enough to warrant keeping Enlightened Tutor (and can fetch auras/equipment to keep us unblocked or to speed up our clock), however.
Cards Put In Imposing Sovereign: While I played around with the idea of putting in Thalia, heretic cathar, it makes more sense to use the cheaper version when your goal is to keep your opponent without blockers for one additional turn.. Hyena Umbra/Spider Umbra: After doing all of the math, I was surprised to learn that a +1 bonus is enough to speed up the clock in some situations. Plus, protection spells that don't require you to keep untapped mana are very useful (especially as they let you reserve "protection" spells for attacks). Phytoburst: Unlike giant growth or vines of vastwood, this card is all but guaranteed to end the game a turn faster no matter what creature you play it on... assuming that the opponent doesn't kill that creature in response. Leonin Skyhunter: Should have been using it from the start. Lost Leonin: This card gives you a turn 4 win. Even if nothing else in the deck has infect, that sort of speed is hard to refuse. Scrounging Bandar:: The oddest new inclusion, though the math checks out. Perfectly capable of giving you the turn 6 win. If you transfer its counters to a 1/1 like wily bandar, you win one turn faster. Not much else to say.
I have to admit Rosy Dumplings, your analysis the last several posts has been spot on. I think we agree on several points about how this deck should operate.
Sidenote: Found Appeal // Authority. Sure its sorcery speed, but its always +1 and trample, usually +2, and occasionally +3. Scales well on a stalled board. The amazing part is Authority because it lets you get a free swing in with the whole team. (I'd expect them to hold back only two blockers). So even if we only get +1 on Appeal, we get the rest of the damage from the mass attack later.
Also not a fan of Hot Soup or Trailblazer Boots. Just seems too slow.
My view toward the "unblockable" equipment mirrors my view toward enlightened tutor.
While it seems counterintuitive, it is possible for a "slow" card to fit into the curve of a fast deck without slowing it down.
When you are facing a deck that spits out chump blockers (like Edgar Markov), you need reusable sources of evasion and mother of runes/rancor/flickering ward/gryff's boon might not be enough. The soup and boots come online around turn 3-4 and help you ignore chump blockers for the rest of the game. Even against midrange decks, these equipment come online when your opponent starts dropping blockers
Replacing the soup with appeal//authority, however, is worth testing.
Has anyone added O-naginata to the maybe cards yet?
It's kinda a pet card I used to run all the time.. it's a cheap equipment that gives trample.. and although it might not always be equitable before combat it definitely is equipable after the pump.. and it's really cheap.. gives +3 power and adds trample... ^^
Ulvenwald Tracker is defo a nice card also.. though the fight cost is a bit expensive, I think Jitte overall does a better job for us... and Jitte is defo needed vs Edgar Vamps and other aggro decks I feel...
Definitely think a low mana curve is best for the deck.. though maybe a few select high end/late game threats might be good...
O-naginata not being able to equip most cats seem very bad, since you won't be able to use it most of the times.
Spending two every turn to give one thing trample has me asking "why not Primal Rage?" Or Nylea, God of the Hunt (don't get me started on that trash, god Nylea is so awful). To give just one guy trample just costs G...
Worst case if you want trample so badly, pitch Brawn to your Survival. So many better trample enablers than the equip.
But it can't be done with most creatures. You can't equip it after the pump and most cats are 1/x or 2/x, so you end up with an equipment you can't even use some of the times. It's not like in Akiri where you need it and 2 more pieces of artifact to turn her into a monster.
It was just a suggestion... I mean it gives +3 power and trample and can be done repeatedly... I figured it might be considerable at least... but yeah it's no Rancor...
Balance seems bad in this deck. You are the aggro so you balance with one or two creatures out...and they have six or seven? You should have died then anyways. Do you Balance to reduce their hand size (debatable, you should be at 2-3 cards in hand with how aggressive this is) or even to bring them down to one or two lands less? Balance wants to punish greedy, overextending decks in my opinion, and this deck should just be playing more kill.
I am building a version of this for next week's Duel Commander event, so we'll see. I'm going with Darksteel Axe, Bonesplitter, Bloodsoaked Battle-Axe (the new one), Jitte, a bevy of pump/protection spells, so we'll see I guess.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Cataclysm I can see being:
You have a Savannah Lions with Bonesplitter/Rancor, they have...something. You still get the pump from Arahbo so your Lion is swinging for 5+ (maybe with Trample) into their potentially smaller blocker. You keep one land and your deck can live on one land a lot of the times. It also clears their nuisance Planeswalkers as well.
I mean, you should test with Balance and let us know. I'm lured toward Teferi's Protection but it seems like a trap as well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
So I know that there is a bit of work left within the Manabase (for example savannah or sth.). But I take any advice from experienced commander players since I just started out.
Tested this against my friend's Kess-Land D deck and it went pretty well. Winter Orb was a champ, but the deck having a single beater out and attacking leaves it suscepetible to spot burn like Bolt, Chain Lightning, etc. I am packing Mother of Runes though which is a great help most of the time. I'll be going to Duel Commander tomorrow with a decent-ish list, which I'll try posting here on Tuesday once I figure out deck formatting, haha!
Our meta is really midrangey right now so I think I should be ok for the most part.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Went 1-2.
Beat Kess "Barrel o' Bolts" 2-0 thanks to Cataclysm + Savannah Lion then lost 1-2 to Edgar Markov. Dear lord that's a lot of tokens, I could not keep up, the one game I won was Gryff's Boon and fly over stuff for lethal. Then lost 0-2 to Queen Marcheesa. Mulled down to 5 one game and I had no one drops. This is something I am going to have to address somehow, I need the Portal one-drop and a Mutavault in the list.
Overall was a positive experience, will do a decklist tomorrow sometime when I have more time. Very fun deck to play, it deals a looooooot of damage very quickly, but it looks like it's "Zurg-esque" in that if you haven't killed them by turn 4 or 5 you're going to get a long night ahead of you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
They should have. It's easily super busted. But they have not as of right now.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
As far as the equipment, I stand behind the boots (which protect your dude and allow you to keep up tempo if your dude dies), the bonesplitter (As casting and equipping on turn 2 can legitimately shave a full turn off of the clock) and either the soup or Trailblazer's Boots for reusable unblockability that doesn't block Arahbo.
I'm kind of agnostic on the topic of tutors, I'll admit. Of those in the list above, my primary interests are:
Green Sun's Zenith: basically a creature (even if you pay more for it)
Survival of the Fittest: REALLY should've been banned but might allow us to grab Mother of Runes, Ulvenwald Tracker, Qasali Pridemage, Leonin Relic-warder, Selfless Spirit, or Heretic Cathar/Imposing Sovereign to slow blockers. While this is not a deck of silver bullets, the ability to grab what few answers we do have is still important.
Worldly Tutor: While speed and utility are far lower than SotF, I can imagine a surprising number of scenarios in which you would not want to drop a 2-drop on turn 2 with this deck (such as throwing down an aura or saving mana for a trick) and a huge number where you have a free mana by turn 3. In those cases, using your spare mana to ensure that you get a worthwhile draw next turn can be a life-saver.
Enlightened Tutor: If we end our third turn with a Rancor-loaded kitty and a Winter Orb or Static Orb, we are in a VERY good place. Enlightened tutor helps to make that possible.
But yeah, we have a bunch of protective cards: Heroic Intervention, Selfless Spirit, Blossoming Defense, Vines of Vastwood, Brave the Elements, Faith's Shield, Gods Willing, Apostle's Blessing all work as protection.
Honestly, Arahbo feels like a pretty odd deck. It doesn't really want or need more than two creatures on the field at any given point (one that won't have summoning sickness if the other is killed) and wants to win the game by turn 5 or 6 (if I'm reading it's gameplan accurately). For that reason, Collected Company and Ranger of Eos seem a bit odd as inclusions. If you can afford the tempo break to play that spell on turn 4 and NEED that spell, you are in a very bad place. Not saying that those are bad cards for the deck. Just interested in hearing how they would realistically slot into play.
I don't know, though. Maybe I'm still living in magical-christmas-land. If so, one of you smack some sense into me.
Meanwhile, Collected Company gets you cats that can attack on turn 5 while Ranger of Eos gets you cats that can attack on turn 6... assuming that you get enough mana in a deck with a very low curve and no acceleration. These cards are useful for coming back if all of our cats are killed... but that is kind of the problem. Arahbo, or at least hyper-aggressive Arahbo, doesn't seem equipped to survive into any sort of mid-game or late-game. If your opponent stabilized and start casting bigger creatures, we start losing the race (as we can only buff one cat each round).
As such, playing cards to help us in the mid-game or late-game seems a bit counter-intuitive to me whereas playing tutors that can slip easily into early-game plays makes sense to me. Am I being a bit too pessimistic here? Does this deck have a chance going for plan b?
...and now I'm left wondering if we should invest in elvish spirit guide for the possibility of more resilient starts (2 cats or cat + god's willing mana).
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Basically, play it like Modern Infect.
Might of Old Krosa, Vines, and Mutagenic Growth, etc.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I like Vines of Vastwood, Blossoming Defense, and any combination of the white 1 drops that grant protection. The first two can actually act as buff spells, the protection spells can help you slip past blockers, and all of these can blank an opponent's kill spell if they cast one in response to Arahbo's trigger.
Like Modern Infect, it's high-risk, high-reward. They either have the answer, or not.
That said, I'm more a fan of Stonewood Invocation myself, although four for a +5/+5 is a lot. Shroud and split second can be clutch though. Berserk 100% belongs here solely because you can open on t1 Steppe Lynx and hit for 14 on t2. If you were on the play...? That's 14 before they make their second land drop. And Berserk is still crazy good with anything else you have.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I guess that I can understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, there's a huge difference between this cat deck and modern infect that impacts the usefulness of Might of Old Krosa. Namely, the clock. In an average infect deck, throwing a Might on a Blighted Agent or Glistener Elf means bringing your opponent several turns closer to death if your gambit pays off.
For cats, however, that math doesn't quite add up.
Let's say that we Drop Savannah Lions (or some comparable cat) on turn 1. If our opponent can't kill or block the cat, we win on turn 5 (15 life on turn 2, 10 life on turn 3, 5 life on turn 4, and 0 life on turn 5).
If we use Rancor or Bonesplitter, the persistent boost of +2 power allows us to win on turn 4 instead (13 Life on turn 2, 6 life on turn 3, and -1 life on turn 4).
If we get a single bonus from Might of Old Krosa, however, we are still on the same turn 5 clock (11 life on turn 2, 6 life on turn 3, 1 life on turn 4, and -4 life on turn 5). It doesn't kill the opponent even one turn faster without additional support.
While it is true that the boost gives our opponent less wiggle room and makes it easier for secondary attackers to matter, this deck gets far less utility out of Might than Infect does. For a buff to be worthwhile in this deck, I'd personally think that it needs to be cheap (cutting out the invocation) and must either protect the creature, help damage sneak through, or grant a bonus of at least +5 power.
You're on the Mutagenic/Vines/Berserk plan. If Groundswell/Old Krosa isn't efficient, then suddenly Giant Growth and the others aren't either. There aren't any other pup spells that offer +5 power and are 1 cmc. Although, you might consider Riding the Dilu Horse for obvious reasons.
You might, however, also consider Ring of Kalonia as damage over time for 1) when the cat sticks, you grow it slowly, and 2) prevents the cat in question from being chumped. If you're attacking with just one, then Cathedral of War might be in order?
Sounds like what you need is some Blood Lust/Fists of the Anvil action - so Titanic Growth esque?
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I do agree that these cards need to be cheap. Anything costing 3 or 4 mana is not worth it at all, in my opinion. But Giant Growth is a lightning bolt, and lightning bolts are absolutely efficient enough for the 20-life format.
Cathedral of war I am torn on. I actually looked at several exalted cards other than the pridemage but an recurring boost needs to grant a +2 bonus to speed up the clock. Plus,the cathedral is pretty bad for mana as it comes out tapped in a fast deck and provides colorless in a two-color deck with a very low curve.
Titsnic growth can definitely work. Forgot about that card. Just this morning, however, I was thinking of miracle. While using miracle cards in the 99 is always a gamble, both blessings of nature and revenge of the hunted have the potential to speed up the clock for one mana... especially if we are still running mirri's guile and sylvan library.
Ring of Kalonia is insanely slow and mana-intensive; seems horrible in this style of the deck.
I love the Miracle cards though; definitely adds to the all-in plan!
EDIT: having second thoughts already about miracles For a fast deck, you start with 7 cards in hand and are trying to win by say turn 5 at the latest. That really means turns 2-5 are the ones where drawing this would help. So that's 4/99. For your 7/99 in your opening hand, they're horrible. And on turn 1 as well (on the draw), you won't have a creature in play yet. Even on turn 2, you sometimes won't. So basically in 8 card instances, they're very bad, and 4 they're very good. Not sure that's a good tradeoff or ratio.
Confirmed. I have this same debate with myself on Thunderous Wrath in Zurgo. Only Thunderous is more applicable, more live on anything except t1. I'm inclined to believe these green miracles are a trap too...
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The all-in strategy works very quickly when it isn't stopped. Even if you only attack with a single creature for the whole game, you can win with 4 attacks. The beats in this deck are so good, however, that smaller 1-time buffs give diminished returns. Also, buff spells like mutagenic growth are half as effective as they would be in infect decks (if that even needs saying).
Above that, however, we have to concern ourselves with prioritizing buff spells. Even if you think that giant growth = lightning bolt, we have a limited number of card slots that we can reasonably spend on buffs and a wide array of better spells worth considering first. Permanent buffs effectively multiply their bonuses with each attack and evasion is generally more important than a straight-up buff (if the opponent has a blocker, giant growth is considerably less useful than emerge unscathed in getting damage through quickly).
Also, I misspoke regarding titanic growth. I got it confused with phytoburst, which does cut a full turn off of our clock.
Cards that I would Prioritize above Giant Growth
1. Rancor (evasion, speeds the clock, hard to kill)
2. Flickering Ward (Evasion, Protection, hard to kill)
3. Gryff's Boon (Evasion, hard to kill)
4. Emerge Unscathed (Evasion x2 and surprise protection for the first use)
5. Berserk (Evasion and enough extra damage to speed the clock)
6. Gods Willing (evasion/protection)
7. Brave the Elements (evasion/protection)
8. Faith's Shield (evasion/protection and can protect our winter orb or other noncreature permanents)
9. Apostle's Blessing (evasion/protection and works against artifact decks)
10. Center Soul (Strictly-worse Emerged unscathed still offers protection and gets us through for 2 attacks)
11. Bonesplitter (speeds the clock, resists creature kill)
12. Umezawa's Jitte (Speeds the clock, kills blockers)
13. Mother of Runes (protection + evasion)
14. Phytoburst (speeds the clock)
15. Hot Soup (unblockability, resists creature kill)
16. Trailblazer's Boots (unblockability, resists creature kill)
17. Blessings of the Hunt (speeds up the clock)
18. Revengee of the Hunted (speeds up the clock)
19. Vines of Vastwood (protection and buff)
20. Blossoming Defense (protection and buff)
Even sub-par auras like ordeal of nylea would be able to speed up the clock by a turn with more efficiency than giant growth. While many of those options don't grant a direct power boost, the ability to stay on track with the 5-turn clock is very important and taking out evasion to get a "lightning bolt" seems a bit self-defeating. Not saying that Giant Growth is "bad". Just that this deck has better options.
Edit: Actually, we might not need Vines of Vastwood or blossoming defense as they do comparatively little. makes some room for phytoburst/center soul/revenge of the hunted/blessings of the hunt.
Edit: Curious to see what the decklist would look like for a deck with no concept of "plan b". 100% Pure aggression decklist looks like...
1 Sacred Cat
1 Wily Bandar
1 Glittering Lynx
1 Scythe Leopard
1 Steppe Lynx
1 Loam Lion
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Pouncing Jaguar
1 Jungle Lion
1 Savannah Lions
1 Mother of Runes
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Oreskos Swiftclaw
2 Lost Leonin
2 Blade of the Sixth Pride
2 Initiate's Companion
2 Scrounging Bandar
2 Fleecemane Lion
2 Adorned Pouncer
2 Leonin Arbiter
2 Leonin Relic-warder
2 Leonin Snarecaster
2 Metallic Mimic
2 Leonin Skyhunter
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Imposing Sovereign
3 Rhonas the Indomitable
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Pride Sovereign
3 Skyhunter Skirmisher
3 Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
5 Arahbo, Roar of the World
1 Flickering Ward
1 Rancor
1 Gryff's Boon
1 Hyena Umbra
1 Spider Umbra
1 Oppressive Rays
2 Sylvan Library
3 Aura Shards
Instant (12)
1 Emerge Unscathed
1 Brave the Elements
1 Faith's Shield
1 Apostle's Blessing
1 Berserk
1 Natural State
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
2 Center Soul
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Selesnya Charm
Sorceries (4)
2 Life's Legacy
2 Phytoburst
4 Cataclysm
4 Armageddon
Artifacts (7)
1 Bonesplitter
1 Hot Soup
2 Trailblazer's Boots
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Winter Orb
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Static Orb
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Temple Garden
1 Savannah
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Fortified Village
1 Brushland
1 Razorvine Thicket
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 City of Brass
1 Mana Confluence
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Hashep Oasis
1 Pendelhaven
8 Plains
6 Forest
This deck is built around winning by turn 6 (or, more realistically, turn 7). If you get a good creature, you can win by turn 5. When the circumstances align properly, you can pull out a win on turn 4. Before discussing specific cards at length, I just wanted to go over what lines of play lead to clocks of different length and how buffs fit into this. The following clocks are based on best-case scenarios, though they don't account for support.
Cards Cut Out:
Mirror Entity: While the plan-B is tempting, getting enough cats and mana to justify its use is somewhat unlikely for this deck. Likewise, any attempt to set up for this card leaves us open to mass destruction.
Stoneforged Mystic/Survival of the Fittest/Steelshaper's Gift/Green Sun's Zenith/Open the Armory/Worldly Tutor: Removing most of the tutors to focus on what counts. Our artifacts and enchantments are (barely) toolbox-ish enough to warrant keeping Enlightened Tutor (and can fetch auras/equipment to keep us unblocked or to speed up our clock), however.
Cards Put In
Imposing Sovereign: While I played around with the idea of putting in Thalia, heretic cathar, it makes more sense to use the cheaper version when your goal is to keep your opponent without blockers for one additional turn..
Hyena Umbra/Spider Umbra: After doing all of the math, I was surprised to learn that a +1 bonus is enough to speed up the clock in some situations. Plus, protection spells that don't require you to keep untapped mana are very useful (especially as they let you reserve "protection" spells for attacks).
Phytoburst: Unlike giant growth or vines of vastwood, this card is all but guaranteed to end the game a turn faster no matter what creature you play it on... assuming that the opponent doesn't kill that creature in response.
Leonin Skyhunter: Should have been using it from the start.
Lost Leonin: This card gives you a turn 4 win. Even if nothing else in the deck has infect, that sort of speed is hard to refuse.
Scrounging Bandar:: The oddest new inclusion, though the math checks out. Perfectly capable of giving you the turn 6 win. If you transfer its counters to a 1/1 like wily bandar, you win one turn faster. Not much else to say.
Sidenote: Found Appeal // Authority. Sure its sorcery speed, but its always +1 and trample, usually +2, and occasionally +3. Scales well on a stalled board. The amazing part is Authority because it lets you get a free swing in with the whole team. (I'd expect them to hold back only two blockers). So even if we only get +1 on Appeal, we get the rest of the damage from the mass attack later.
Also not a fan of Hot Soup or Trailblazer Boots. Just seems too slow.
While it seems counterintuitive, it is possible for a "slow" card to fit into the curve of a fast deck without slowing it down.
When you are facing a deck that spits out chump blockers (like Edgar Markov), you need reusable sources of evasion and mother of runes/rancor/flickering ward/gryff's boon might not be enough. The soup and boots come online around turn 3-4 and help you ignore chump blockers for the rest of the game. Even against midrange decks, these equipment come online when your opponent starts dropping blockers
Replacing the soup with appeal//authority, however, is worth testing.
O-naginata not being able to equip most cats seem very bad, since you won't be able to use it most of the times.
Worst case if you want trample so badly, pitch Brawn to your Survival. So many better trample enablers than the equip.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Balance seems bad in this deck. You are the aggro so you balance with one or two creatures out...and they have six or seven? You should have died then anyways. Do you Balance to reduce their hand size (debatable, you should be at 2-3 cards in hand with how aggressive this is) or even to bring them down to one or two lands less? Balance wants to punish greedy, overextending decks in my opinion, and this deck should just be playing more kill.
I am building a version of this for next week's Duel Commander event, so we'll see. I'm going with Darksteel Axe, Bonesplitter, Bloodsoaked Battle-Axe (the new one), Jitte, a bevy of pump/protection spells, so we'll see I guess.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
You have a Savannah Lions with Bonesplitter/Rancor, they have...something. You still get the pump from Arahbo so your Lion is swinging for 5+ (maybe with Trample) into their potentially smaller blocker. You keep one land and your deck can live on one land a lot of the times. It also clears their nuisance Planeswalkers as well.
I mean, you should test with Balance and let us know. I'm lured toward Teferi's Protection but it seems like a trap as well.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
I´m just starting out with commander and decided that the 2017´s edition, especially the cat tribal, could be a good starting point for me.
My current deck list looks like that:
5 Arahbo, Roar of the World
Instants/sorc:
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Steelshaper´s Gift
1 Path to Exile
1 Disenchant
2 Farseek
2 Dromoka´s Command
3 Cultivate
3 Krosan Grip
4 Harmonize
4 Skyshroud Claim
4 Divine Reckoning
3x White Sun´s Zenith
Artifacts
1 Skullclamp
1 Bonesplitter
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Bonesplitter
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Sword of the Animist
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Umezawa´s Jitte
2 Talisman of Unity
2 Mind Stone
3 Commander's Sphere
3 Herald´s Horn
3 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Heirloom Blade
3 Sword of Vengeance
4 Hammer of Nazahn
Walker:
3 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1 Sigarda´s Aid
5 Asceticism
5 Mirari´s Wake
Creatures:
1 Mother of Runes
1 Wily Bandar
1 Glittering Lynx
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Pouncing Jaguar
1 Loam Lion
1 Sacred Cat
2 Qasali Pridgemage
2 Fleecemane Lion
2 Leonin Shikari
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Leonin Den-Guard
2 Leonin Arbiter
2 Adorned Pouncer
2 Leonin Snarecaster
2 Sunspear Shikari
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Pride Sovereign
3 Prowling Serpopard
3 Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Skyhunter Cub
3 Kemba, Kha Regent
4 Balan, Wandering Knight
4 Alms Collector
4 Temur Sabertooth
5 Regal Caracal
5 Qasali Slingers
6 Jareth, Leonin Titan
6 Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
7 Raksha Golden Cub
7 Plains
6 Forest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Temple Garden
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Path of Ancestry
1 Blighted Woodland
1 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Vivid Grove
1 Tranquil Expanse
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Nantuko Monastery
1 Rogue´s Passage
1 Grasslands
1 Command Tower
1 Myriad Landsacpe
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Graypelt Refuge
1 Blossoming Sands
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Elfhame Palace
1 Saltcrusted Steppe
So I know that there is a bit of work left within the Manabase (for example savannah or sth.). But I take any advice from experienced commander players since I just started out.
Thanks
Max
UTron
Our meta is really midrangey right now so I think I should be ok for the most part.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Beat Kess "Barrel o' Bolts" 2-0 thanks to Cataclysm + Savannah Lion then lost 1-2 to Edgar Markov. Dear lord that's a lot of tokens, I could not keep up, the one game I won was Gryff's Boon and fly over stuff for lethal. Then lost 0-2 to Queen Marcheesa. Mulled down to 5 one game and I had no one drops. This is something I am going to have to address somehow, I need the Portal one-drop and a Mutavault in the list.
Overall was a positive experience, will do a decklist tomorrow sometime when I have more time. Very fun deck to play, it deals a looooooot of damage very quickly, but it looks like it's "Zurg-esque" in that if you haven't killed them by turn 4 or 5 you're going to get a long night ahead of you.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.