My first reaction to Arahbo, Roar of the World was wow this guy could be a thing in duel commander. I'm specifically focusing on his eminence ability to give +3/+3 to one creature from the command zone. I'm imagining a voltron/exalted style build focusing on a few quality creatures backed up with good removal, pump, and a good finishing (trample & pump) ability in the general.
So after hearing discussion from numerous people about the direction of this deck, I decided to update my post to reflect our thoughts. Let me know if you think I left anything out. I am going to start with the essentials first and leave additional slots open for creativity. Hopefully we can flesh out a full deck sometime later.
One-drop cats Glittering Lynx. While only a 1/1, his ability to prevent damage means he will be difficult to remove in the early game and a decent blocker towards mid to late. Loam Lion. This could easily be a 2/3 --> 5/6 on turn two. That said, he still dies to Lightning Bolt. Sacred Cat. The combination of Lifelink and Embalm W make this a knockout on turn two. 4 damage, 4 life, and cheap recursion. Lifelink also improves pump spells. Wily Bandar. This deck will operate best when we drop our land for turn and move to combat. We can keep up mana for combat tricks, removal, and abilities like this.
Two-drop cats Adorned Pouncer. A 4/4 Double Strike on turn 3 is a must answer for our opponent. The recursion through Eternalize 3WW is gravy. Fleecemane Lion. While potentially a 6/6 on turn 3, the real value is in the late game when you can use the Monstrosity ability in response to removal and then have a hexproof indestructible 4/4 blocker or a 7/7 attacker. Qasali Pridemage. The combo of exalted and a cheap removal ability make this card. You can attack with it as a 6/6 or more likely, use the exalted trigger for another creature and keep up the option to destroy a pesky artifact or enchantment.
Three-drop cats Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist. First Strike with an Arahbo trigger means she is likely to survive most single combat. Mirri's second ability means you can do a mass attack to finish the game out, and her third ability protects from reprisal.
Four-drop cats
Five-drop cats Arahbo, Roar of the World. Unfortunately, you can not use Arahbo's abilities on itself. The only reason we would cast this is to use the second ability to break open a stalled board.
Other creatures Mother of Runes. Classic protection for defense or offense and evasion. Stoneforge Mystic. The important thing is to have a short stellar list of quality, low equip cost equipment. Selfless Spirit. 2 damage in the air every turn with the added ability of instant speed indestructible gives you many good lines of play with this card. Rhonas the Indomitable. Basically Rhonas is always on for the attack. And his second ability does a good impression of Arahbo's second ability, which can also be used to turn Rhonas on for a block.
Depending on your build, these creatures may or may not show up. The decks posted so far currently feature a mixture of builds. Let me know if you feel any of these creatures should belong in the essential list. Support it with a reason. All in Build
The most action packed 1 & 2 drops available to make sure you are always attacking for 5+ damage.
Arahbo, Roar of the World provides a +3/+3 bonus to any one creature, so our buffs should provide useful abilities like lifelink, trample, protection, and evasion. Basilisk Collar. This card plays offense and defense. Swiftfoot Boots. Commander staple. Haste and hexproof, so you can attack with your best creature. Rancor cheap, recurs, 2 power, trample. Gryff's Boon. This has been a sleeper card in many voltron builds of late, the unlimited recursion with flying is simply stellar Obelisk of Urd Turn 3 or 4 play that pumps the team for the next turn.
Green Sun's Zenith. Tutor to put the creature directly into play. Only targets green creatures though. Steelshaper's Gift. Need high quality equipment with a low equip and casting cost. Sylvan Tutor & Worldly Tutor. Both accomplish the same thing. Worldly Tutor is better since it is instant speed. Open the Armory. Allowing you to fetch an aura as well gives options for removal, ie Oppressive Rays
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
I brewed a list with a friend of mine and basically just threw in every single one and two-drop cat with a few utility creatures like Stoneforge Mystic and Mother of Runes to give it some resilience.
Throw in a few protection or white removals and a few auras or equipments that grant evasion/trample and you've got a deck.
Basically you threaten to smash with a at least 4 every turn from t2 until the end of the game. I see no reason to clog the deck with anything higher than cmc 4.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing with proxied cards at sanctioned events is good, actually.
I definitely like Jazal in a go wide strategy, or when it becomes more advantageous to mass attack.
Nacatl seems like too high of a cmc and I don't think the +3/+3 copies.
Yeah I like using equipment too, but which ones. Seeing as how Arahbo, Roar of the World adds power and toughness, I think we should focus on combat abilities. For instance, Basilisk Collar seems like a great fit.
What others?
At first I though Chameleon Colossus would be a good choice, but Arahbo already provides the pump ability for cheaper.
Eminence seems just like the kind of ability that would get banned in Duel (Derevi, Oloro spring to mind..)
But I guess we'll have to see how strong these commanders turn out to be.
I agree this has a lot of similarities to Oloro, Ageless Ascetic which is why I wanted to make it a deck for duel. I think it's good for the discussion though if we don't discuss or worry about bans this early.
I brewed a list with a friend of mine and basically just threw in every single one and two-drop cat with a few utility creatures like Stoneforge Mystic and Mother of Runes to give it some resilience.
Throw in a few protection or white removals and a few auras or equipments that grant evasion/trample and you've got a deck.
Basically you threaten to smash with a at least 4 every turn from t2 until the end of the game. I see no reason to clog the deck with anything higher than cmc 4.
^this
I love everything you are saying. I was wondering about the viability of the 1 cmc heavy build, but its good to know someone else feels it could work.
So what support creatures?
What support spells?
I think one-off pump is okay but I would rather play stuff that grants protection like Apostle's Blessing, Gods Willing or Feat of Resistance, simply because bad timings by your opponent lets you get two birds stoned at once: counter a spell and get past a blocker (if they share the same color). Dromoka's Command also fits the bill in the red matchup. The one caveat here is Mutagenic Growth, and only because it's free, but I'm not sure I would actually want to run it. Mana Tithe is also a nice "gotcha" card.
Rancor is obviously good since you can replay it and it grants trample for cheap. Horned Helm could be an interesting inclusion as well. +1/+1 is enough to take you from a 5-turn clock to 4 turns (if you have a 1/1 in play). Bonesplitter is nice too on 1/1s, since it takes you from a 4-turn clock to a 3 turns after your first attack (opponent now at 16, you attack with a 6/4). I think Gryff's Boon also deserves a mention because it grants flying (and reduces your clock by a turn on a 1/1).
EDIT: forgot about some goodies. Berserk seems pretty legit. Mirror Entity is also a nice mana sink
I definitely like Jazal in a go wide strategy, or when it becomes more advantageous to mass attack.
Nacatl seems like too high of a cmc and I don't think the +3/+3 copies.
Yeah I like using equipment too, but which ones. Seeing as how Arahbo, Roar of the World adds power and toughness, I think we should focus on combat abilities. For instance, Basilisk Collar seems like a great fit.
What others?
At first I though Chameleon Colossus would be a good choice, but Arahbo already provides the pump ability for cheaper.
Eminence seems just like the kind of ability that would get banned in Duel (Derevi, Oloro spring to mind..)
But I guess we'll have to see how strong these commanders turn out to be.
I agree this has a lot of similarities to Oloro, Ageless Ascetic which is why I wanted to make it a deck for duel. I think it's good for the discussion though if we don't discuss or worry about bans this early.
I brewed a list with a friend of mine and basically just threw in every single one and two-drop cat with a few utility creatures like Stoneforge Mystic and Mother of Runes to give it some resilience.
Throw in a few protection or white removals and a few auras or equipments that grant evasion/trample and you've got a deck.
Basically you threaten to smash with a at least 4 every turn from t2 until the end of the game. I see no reason to clog the deck with anything higher than cmc 4.
^this
I love everything you are saying. I was wondering about the viability of the 1 cmc heavy build, but its good to know someone else feels it could work.
So what support creatures?
What support spells?
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Elfric I think your list is the right direction but I don't like the swords. Too slow I think. Skullclamp is one I also considered but wasn't too sure about. Seems a little risky to me - lots of x/1s but you're not really drawing into answers. But drawing cards is drawing cards...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing with proxied cards at sanctioned events is good, actually.
If you build up enough redundancy with early beats, not many commanders can bounce back. This is exactly the sort of start that Serra Ascendant allows in multiplayer commander... except that there is only one opponent, that you have a whole ton of redundancy, and that the opponent's life is halved.
Ok so the main post is updated. Let me know what you think. I need help with the mana base and finishing removal and board wipes. If I missed something huge let me know.
If you build up enough redundancy with early beats, not many commanders can bounce back. This is exactly the sort of start that Serra Ascendant allows in multiplayer commander... except that there is only one opponent, that you have a whole ton of redundancy, and that the opponent's life is halved.
This is the way I am heading as well. I am including Waiting in the Weeds as my meta isn't very green-ish (one Rhonas player and one multi-deck player) so they should never get anything. More 1/1 Cats get pumped by Arah's second ability, and they can be clamped away, to draw into more cats.
I am considering running Brimaz as well, as he's a beast, and maybe even sneaking in a Winter Orb or something. Or perhaps Concordant Crossroads. Yes, it will help my opponent but If I can go turn 1 Cat, turn 2 CC, Cat, attack attack, then drop a Winter Orb or whatnot, things will get spicy.
For equips, probably not much outside Jitte, Skullclamp, Bonesplitter variants (the self-replicating Bonesplitter looks sauncy) and that's about where I am right now. Also considering some janky lands like Heart of Yavimaya and that one that sacs to Giant Growth if you have threshold, not sure though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
You may want to add Flickering Ward to the deck, depending on your local meta.
Kind of serves as another Rancor/Gryff's Boon in terms of cheap and reusable auras to keep your creatures unblocked... though I'll admit that it makes for an awkward mirror match (as it stops Arahbo from targeting). If you're running a couple of 3 or 4-mana beaters like Brimaz and Pride Sovereign, running this card can be useful even against green/white decks.
This is the way I am heading as well. I am including Waiting in the Weeds as my meta isn't very green-ish (one Rhonas player and one multi-deck player) so they should never get anything. More 1/1 Cats get pumped by Arah's second ability, and they can be clamped away, to draw into more cats.
I am considering running Brimaz as well, as he's a beast, and maybe even sneaking in a Winter Orb or something. Or perhaps Concordant Crossroads. Yes, it will help my opponent but If I can go turn 1 Cat, turn 2 CC, Cat, attack attack, then drop a Winter Orb or whatnot, things will get spicy.
I'm wondering how many cats we would get off of Waiting in the Weeds with all the W cards requiring nonbasics and plains. And at three mana, how many cats are we looking to get to make it worth the slot?
I really hadn't considered a stax element yet with Winter Orb and others like it. Makes sense. I like it. Let's get a good list of cards to run a stax package.
I'm really torn about equipment. If I had a Steelshaper's Gift in my hand, I feel like I would be hard pressed to name the go-to equipment I would grab 70% of the time. Any thoughts on this y'all?
For lands with abilities, these cards sprung to mind first.
You may want to add Flickering Ward to the deck, depending on your local meta.
Kind of serves as another Rancor/Gryff's Boon in terms of cheap and reusable auras to keep your creatures unblocked... though I'll admit that it makes for an awkward mirror match (as it stops Arahbo from targeting). If you're running a couple of 3 or 4-mana beaters like Brimaz and Pride Sovereign, running this card can be useful even against green/white decks.
Absolutely love Flickering Ward. Fun fact: You can actually use it to destroy an opponent's aura as well.
At first I though Chameleon Colossus would be a good choice, but Arahbo already provides the pump ability for cheaper.
Ok so I may be circling back into liking Chameleon Colossus. I like the pro black and 4/4 stats making removal problematic. His ability is mana hungry but the threat could be useful. I'd probably list this in the utility creature build section.
The thought of using the tracker to kill a blocker before attacking with a giant cat each round is hilarious. If your opponent can't draw into kill very fast, you win. If your opponent kills your first cat on turn 2, however, you'll be left wishing that you had cast a second cat instead. Even though you can still drop a new cat to get the buff and fight something, losing a turn of tempo like that is... bad.
Thoughts?
As far as equipment... that's a bit up in the air. Swiftfoot Boots, Umezawa's Jitte, and Skullclamp (if you fail to with early and need some draws more than a random 2/1 cat) are all that you really need/want. Maybe consider Hot Soup of all things if you need more unblockability but don't like the shroud that a whispersilk cloak grants.
In my view, the only equipments you want are the ones that grant evasion. Additional INCIDENTAL buffs are great, but I think you'll win as long as you can nullify blockers, and P/T buffs don't really do that. I think the one exception here could be super cheap equipments like Bonesplitter or, as you mentioned, Shuko/Bone Saw but to be honest I would rather not play them I don't think.
Love Ulvenwald Tracker btw. Great find for this deck
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing with proxied cards at sanctioned events is good, actually.
The thought of using the tracker to kill a blocker before attacking with a giant cat each round is hilarious. If your opponent can't draw into kill very fast, you win. If your opponent kills your first cat on turn 2, however, you'll be left wishing that you had cast a second cat instead. Even though you can still drop a new cat to get the buff and fight something, losing a turn of tempo like that is... bad.
Thoughts?
As far as equipment... that's a bit up in the air. Swiftfoot Boots, Umezawa's Jitte, and Skullclamp (if you fail to with early and need some draws more than a random 2/1 cat) are all that you really need/want. Maybe consider Hot Soup of all things if you need more unblockability but don't like the shroud that a whispersilk cloak grants.
If you want to be cute with equipment though, you could always go with Shuko/Grafted Wargear/Sai of the Shinobi/stormrider rig/ronin warclub to automatically upgrade each new kitty you throw onto the field. Likely not the smartest plan, mind you, but cute.
In my view, the only equipments you want are the ones that grant evasion. Additional INCIDENTAL buffs are great, but I think you'll win as long as you can nullify blockers, and P/T buffs don't really do that. I think the one exception here could be super cheap equipments like Bonesplitter or, as you mentioned, Shuko/Bone Saw but to be honest I would rather not play them I don't think.
Love Ulvenwald Tracker btw. Great find for this deck
I also really love Ulvenwald Tracker the only other instant speed fight effect open to us is Dromoka's Command, so its a welcome addition. (Abuscade costs too much I think.)
For equipment, I don't think we curve into any of them well. Most voltron decks will throw down some early equipment, then get a creature. We are getting the creature first.
I figure our line of play to be something like:
T1 drop a cat hopefully
T2 or drop a cat here
T3+ Attack with mana up for pump/protection; if unblocked drop another cat, aura, or equipment 2nd main
So we wont be able to use the equipment until turn 4 or later. Keeping equip cost low allows us to still have mana open for combat tricks. I'm also not a fan of Skullclamp. I know its card draw, but I'd rather play some kind of tutor, or recursion here. Genesis?
plus 36 lands (not the best at making mana-bases, either).
Edit: Gotta love any commander deck with 30 1-drops.
I really like this list, I'm going to update the main post with a decklist soon. Really like Life's Legacy (better than Skullclamp I'd say), any more effects like this for cheap?
I wonder if its good idea to play few non-cat utility in case early early agrro dont work out due to oponents removal: mother of runesselfless spirit for example. Ranger of eos or reveillark should be hillarious as well with all the one drop cats and they work as a mid/late game refuel.
Maybe even collected company? Ulvenwald Tracker seems good in the deck. Against control you dont want to cast him but he clears way against aggro and midrange decks that actualy cats might struggle against.
Mother and Spirit are already listed in the OP, I like Ranger though. I worry about the cmc on Reveillark.
For Collected Company, will we have the density to reliably get 2+ creatures out of this? Can anyone run the math on this and tell us our probability of 0, 1, 2, or 3+ creatures? This could be a great card if the math swings our way.
Well, I sure derped on the Mtenda Lion. First instinct for a replacement is either selfless Spirit (because it is awesome), Eos Ranger (for double kitty goodness), or eternal witness (which could recover a cat, any combat trick, or a kill spell). Depending on meta, serpopard worth a look.
My logic for including Skullclamp is two-fold
1. As this deck is about going big instead of going wide, we have literally no use for Jungle Lion in our hand until our Savannah Lions on the field is killed. Skullclamp allows that card to be transmuted into card advantage.
2. If things move a turn too slowly and your enemy starts to stabilize, you may have more need for one of the few answers in this deck than you do for its many cheap creatures. In such a scenario, a digging tool like this is your friend.
With all of that said, you can probably replace the clamp with a sensei's divining top to get the same end effect... and to let you get the benefit at instant speed with any mana you aren't using anyways...
Running the Gaddock Teeg was more of an impulse pick than anything else. Shuts down most planeswalker, green sun zenith, and most wraths... though many aggro decks don't even notice it. Might want to replace with Song of the Dryads so that the deck has at least one "universal answer" (especially one that can take out aggressive commanders like Zurgo for a while).
I'll admit that I went with Lost Leonin for the dream that it represents. Hitting two times for the victory (once if you have Arahbo out) is a hilarious prospect. In most cases, though, I admit that the Longtusk Cub is a better choice.
One other card that I found for the deck (almost by accident) is Triangle of War. While it technically costs 3 mana like ambuscade, the colorless cost and ability to split that cost up might make it worth a shot.
Gaddock shuts down most planeswalker, green sun zenith, and most wraths, as said above. Against aggro decks, the cats can smash face and lock random pieces. It does not affect us since we play 3 or less cmc 4+ cards. The point is that it doesn't hurt to have, since the floor is already pretty high on it.
I think Insight is good since you dont have to sac, and instant speed.
Greater Good is amazing here! Honestly, its the Skullclamp replacement I prefer (I know thats probably debatable).
Consider Skullclamp, first there are only about a dozen creatures with 1 toughness to get an immeadiate effect. Second, you will need pay mana each time, 4 cards would cost cost 2 mana plus the mana to play Skullclamp.
Greater Good costs 4, so we won't be able to cast it til mid game, but that is when we need it most. The first activation should draw 4-5 cards. Sure we discard 3, but that is like looting, we are drawing because we need an answer. The second activation should also get 4-5 cards. So in two turns we have dug 8-10 cards into our deck. That would cost 5-6 mana with Skullclamp, which only works on 1 toughness creatures.
(I am not a fan of Momentous Fall actually.)
On a different note, how about totem armor?
I like these for the deck
Why is none playing sylvan library? Or am I just reading the decklists wrong?
Not sure. Seems playable. 2 mana is a lot in this deck. I wouldnt want to cast until turn 4 most likely. Perhaps Mirri's Guile would be more efficient.
We're still figuring this deck out.
I fear that Greater Good might be a bit slow for a hyper-aggro build. If we wanted to go in that direction, I'd definitely recommend running the cheaper Fauna Shaman and Survival of the Fittest first as they can fetch toolbox creatures (Mother of Runes, Ulvenwald Tracker, Leonin Relic Warder) and might allow the deck to support Brawn and Genesis for incidental trample and revival.
Hunter's Insight likewise has a (relatively) high cost for a combat "buff", even if the ceiling is high. Certainly worth experimenting for.
I support experimenting with Hyena Umbra and Spider Umbra, though I'd recommend only playing them in your postcombat main phase to avoid having an instant-speed abrade or lightning bolt 2-1 you out of nowhere.
So after hearing discussion from numerous people about the direction of this deck, I decided to update my post to reflect our thoughts. Let me know if you think I left anything out. I am going to start with the essentials first and leave additional slots open for creativity. Hopefully we can flesh out a full deck sometime later.
Glittering Lynx. While only a 1/1, his ability to prevent damage means he will be difficult to remove in the early game and a decent blocker towards mid to late.
Loam Lion. This could easily be a 2/3 --> 5/6 on turn two. That said, he still dies to Lightning Bolt.
Sacred Cat. The combination of Lifelink and Embalm W make this a knockout on turn two. 4 damage, 4 life, and cheap recursion. Lifelink also improves pump spells.
Wily Bandar. This deck will operate best when we drop our land for turn and move to combat. We can keep up mana for combat tricks, removal, and abilities like this.
Two-drop cats
Adorned Pouncer. A 4/4 Double Strike on turn 3 is a must answer for our opponent. The recursion through Eternalize 3WW is gravy.
Fleecemane Lion. While potentially a 6/6 on turn 3, the real value is in the late game when you can use the Monstrosity ability in response to removal and then have a hexproof indestructible 4/4 blocker or a 7/7 attacker.
Qasali Pridemage. The combo of exalted and a cheap removal ability make this card. You can attack with it as a 6/6 or more likely, use the exalted trigger for another creature and keep up the option to destroy a pesky artifact or enchantment.
Three-drop cats
Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist. First Strike with an Arahbo trigger means she is likely to survive most single combat. Mirri's second ability means you can do a mass attack to finish the game out, and her third ability protects from reprisal.
Four-drop cats
Five-drop cats
Arahbo, Roar of the World. Unfortunately, you can not use Arahbo's abilities on itself. The only reason we would cast this is to use the second ability to break open a stalled board.
Other creatures
Mother of Runes. Classic protection for defense or offense and evasion.
Stoneforge Mystic. The important thing is to have a short stellar list of quality, low equip cost equipment.
Selfless Spirit. 2 damage in the air every turn with the added ability of instant speed indestructible gives you many good lines of play with this card.
Rhonas the Indomitable. Basically Rhonas is always on for the attack. And his second ability does a good impression of Arahbo's second ability, which can also be used to turn Rhonas on for a block.
Depending on your build, these creatures may or may not show up. The decks posted so far currently feature a mixture of builds. Let me know if you feel any of these creatures should belong in the essential list. Support it with a reason.
All in Build
The most action packed 1 & 2 drops available to make sure you are always attacking for 5+ damage.
Utility
These creatures shine because of their abilities.
Team Build
Arahbo, Roar of the World provides a +3/+3 bonus to any one creature, so our buffs should provide useful abilities like lifelink, trample, protection, and evasion.
Basilisk Collar. This card plays offense and defense.
Swiftfoot Boots. Commander staple. Haste and hexproof, so you can attack with your best creature.
Rancor cheap, recurs, 2 power, trample.
Gryff's Boon. This has been a sleeper card in many voltron builds of late, the unlimited recursion with flying is simply stellar
Obelisk of Urd Turn 3 or 4 play that pumps the team for the next turn.
Green Sun's Zenith. Tutor to put the creature directly into play. Only targets green creatures though.
Steelshaper's Gift. Need high quality equipment with a low equip and casting cost.
Sylvan Tutor & Worldly Tutor. Both accomplish the same thing. Worldly Tutor is better since it is instant speed.
Open the Armory. Allowing you to fetch an aura as well gives options for removal, ie Oppressive Rays
Blossoming Defense & Vines of Vastwood. Pump and hexproof.
Heroic Intervention & Teferi's Protection protects from early board wipes and removal.
Apostle's Blessing, Emerge Unscathed, Faith's Shield, and Gods Willing. Confers all the benefits of protection on one creature. (Honorary mention: Brave the Elements protects multiple WHITE creatures.)
Berserk. Finishes games. Combine with a double striker like Adorned Pouncer or Skyhunter Skirmisher
Selesnya Charm.
Path to Exile & Swords to Plowshares. Instant speed, one mana exile effects.
Oppressive Rays
Dromoka's Command
Need help finishing...
Thoughts?
nacatl war-pride
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Don't forget Chameleon Colossus.
https://archidekt.com/user/71716
Some hidden gems include:
Glittering Lynx
Glittering Lion
Penumbra Bobcat
Wily Bandar
Throw in a few protection or white removals and a few auras or equipments that grant evasion/trample and you've got a deck.
Basically you threaten to smash with a at least 4 every turn from t2 until the end of the game. I see no reason to clog the deck with anything higher than cmc 4.
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
I definitely like Jazal in a go wide strategy, or when it becomes more advantageous to mass attack.
Nacatl seems like too high of a cmc and I don't think the +3/+3 copies.
Yeah I like using equipment too, but which ones. Seeing as how Arahbo, Roar of the World adds power and toughness, I think we should focus on combat abilities. For instance, Basilisk Collar seems like a great fit.
What others?
At first I though Chameleon Colossus would be a good choice, but Arahbo already provides the pump ability for cheaper.
I agree this has a lot of similarities to Oloro, Ageless Ascetic which is why I wanted to make it a deck for duel. I think it's good for the discussion though if we don't discuss or worry about bans this early.
^this
I love everything you are saying. I was wondering about the viability of the 1 cmc heavy build, but its good to know someone else feels it could work.
So what support creatures?
What support spells?
I like the idea of pump spells, especially
And possibly
Heroic Intervention
Recap:
Low cmc aggro
Equipment/Aura
Rancor is obviously good since you can replay it and it grants trample for cheap. Horned Helm could be an interesting inclusion as well. +1/+1 is enough to take you from a 5-turn clock to 4 turns (if you have a 1/1 in play). Bonesplitter is nice too on 1/1s, since it takes you from a 4-turn clock to a 3 turns after your first attack (opponent now at 16, you attack with a 6/4). I think Gryff's Boon also deserves a mention because it grants flying (and reduces your clock by a turn on a 1/1).
EDIT: forgot about some goodies. Berserk seems pretty legit. Mirror Entity is also a nice mana sink
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
nacatl war-pride is there because some decks run coat of arms or obelisk of urd. Its also a unique card that casual players would like.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
Mirror Entity should be in here, it is i my paper version, but I don't know what's in it's place.
EDIT: both thalis should be in here TBH.
Savannah Lions, Mtenda Lion, Loam Lion, Steppe Lynx, Jungle Lion, Pouncing Jaguar, Scythe Leopard, and Wild Nacatl all allow you to swing for 5 on turn two.
Qasali Pridemage, Oreskos Swiftclaw, Initiate's Companion, Fleecemane Lion, Blade of the Sixth Pride, and Adorned Pouncer all let you come over for 6 on turn 3.
If you build up enough redundancy with early beats, not many commanders can bounce back. This is exactly the sort of start that Serra Ascendant allows in multiplayer commander... except that there is only one opponent, that you have a whole ton of redundancy, and that the opponent's life is halved.
This is the way I am heading as well. I am including Waiting in the Weeds as my meta isn't very green-ish (one Rhonas player and one multi-deck player) so they should never get anything. More 1/1 Cats get pumped by Arah's second ability, and they can be clamped away, to draw into more cats.
I am considering running Brimaz as well, as he's a beast, and maybe even sneaking in a Winter Orb or something. Or perhaps Concordant Crossroads. Yes, it will help my opponent but If I can go turn 1 Cat, turn 2 CC, Cat, attack attack, then drop a Winter Orb or whatnot, things will get spicy.
For equips, probably not much outside Jitte, Skullclamp, Bonesplitter variants (the self-replicating Bonesplitter looks sauncy) and that's about where I am right now. Also considering some janky lands like Heart of Yavimaya and that one that sacs to Giant Growth if you have threshold, not sure though.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Kind of serves as another Rancor/Gryff's Boon in terms of cheap and reusable auras to keep your creatures unblocked... though I'll admit that it makes for an awkward mirror match (as it stops Arahbo from targeting). If you're running a couple of 3 or 4-mana beaters like Brimaz and Pride Sovereign, running this card can be useful even against green/white decks.
I'm wondering how many cats we would get off of Waiting in the Weeds with all the W cards requiring nonbasics and plains. And at three mana, how many cats are we looking to get to make it worth the slot?
I really hadn't considered a stax element yet with Winter Orb and others like it. Makes sense. I like it. Let's get a good list of cards to run a stax package.
I'm really torn about equipment. If I had a Steelshaper's Gift in my hand, I feel like I would be hard pressed to name the go-to equipment I would grab 70% of the time. Any thoughts on this y'all?
For lands with abilities, these cards sprung to mind first.
None of them enter the battlefield tapped, so that's a plus.
Absolutely love Flickering Ward. Fun fact: You can actually use it to destroy an opponent's aura as well.
Ok so I may be circling back into liking Chameleon Colossus. I like the pro black and 4/4 stats making removal problematic. His ability is mana hungry but the threat could be useful. I'd probably list this in the utility creature build section.
The thought of using the tracker to kill a blocker before attacking with a giant cat each round is hilarious. If your opponent can't draw into kill very fast, you win. If your opponent kills your first cat on turn 2, however, you'll be left wishing that you had cast a second cat instead. Even though you can still drop a new cat to get the buff and fight something, losing a turn of tempo like that is... bad.
Thoughts?
As far as equipment... that's a bit up in the air. Swiftfoot Boots, Umezawa's Jitte, and Skullclamp (if you fail to with early and need some draws more than a random 2/1 cat) are all that you really need/want. Maybe consider Hot Soup of all things if you need more unblockability but don't like the shroud that a whispersilk cloak grants.
If you want to be cute with equipment though, you could always go with Shuko/Grafted Wargear/Sai of the Shinobi/stormrider rig/ronin warclub to automatically upgrade each new kitty you throw onto the field. Likely not the smartest plan, mind you, but cute.
In my view, the only equipments you want are the ones that grant evasion. Additional INCIDENTAL buffs are great, but I think you'll win as long as you can nullify blockers, and P/T buffs don't really do that. I think the one exception here could be super cheap equipments like Bonesplitter or, as you mentioned, Shuko/Bone Saw but to be honest I would rather not play them I don't think.
Love Ulvenwald Tracker btw. Great find for this deck
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
1 Glittering Lynx
1 Loam Lion
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Sacred Cat
1 Wily Bandar
1 Savannah Lions
1 Jungle Lion
1 Steppe Lynx
1 Scythe Leopard
1 Pouncing Jaguar
1 Mother of Runes
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Adorned Pouncer
2 Fleecemane Lion
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Blade of the Sixth Pride
2 Oreskos Swiftclaw
2 Initiate's Companion
2 Leonin Arbiter
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Longtusk Cub
2 Leonin Snarecaster
2 Whitemane Lion
2 Metallic Mimic
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist
3 Rhonas the Indomitable
3 Glittering Lion
3 Skyhunter Skirmisher
3 Pride Sovereign
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Mirror Entity
5 Arahbo, Roar of the World
1 Flickering Ward
1 Gryff's Boon
1 Rancor
1 Oppressive Rays
3 Aura Shards
3 Song of the Dryads
Instants (9)
1 Berserk
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Natural State
1 Emerge Unscathed
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Selesnya Charm
2 Heroic Intervention
Sorceries (6)
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Steelshaper's Gift
2 Open the Armory
2 Life's Legacy
4 Cataclysm
4 Armageddon
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Bloodforged Battle-Axe
1 Bonesplitter
1 Triangle of War
1 Hot Soup
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Winter Orb
3 Static Orb
plus 36 lands (not the best at making mana-bases, either).
Edit: Gotta love any commander deck with 30 1-drops.
I also really love Ulvenwald Tracker the only other instant speed fight effect open to us is Dromoka's Command, so its a welcome addition. (Abuscade costs too much I think.)
For equipment, I don't think we curve into any of them well. Most voltron decks will throw down some early equipment, then get a creature. We are getting the creature first.
I figure our line of play to be something like:
T1 drop a cat hopefully
T2 or drop a cat here
T3+ Attack with mana up for pump/protection; if unblocked drop another cat, aura, or equipment 2nd main
So we wont be able to use the equipment until turn 4 or later. Keeping equip cost low allows us to still have mana open for combat tricks. I'm also not a fan of Skullclamp. I know its card draw, but I'd rather play some kind of tutor, or recursion here. Genesis?
I really like this list, I'm going to update the main post with a decklist soon. Really like Life's Legacy (better than Skullclamp I'd say), any more effects like this for cheap?
Yeah Mtenda is not allowed, also I'm not a fan of it anyways since it negates Arahbo's buff.
Mother and Spirit are already listed in the OP, I like Ranger though. I worry about the cmc on Reveillark.
For Collected Company, will we have the density to reliably get 2+ creatures out of this? Can anyone run the math on this and tell us our probability of 0, 1, 2, or 3+ creatures? This could be a great card if the math swings our way.
So what deck is Gaddock Teeg meant to fight. I know he can be a house againist certain decks in Modern, what decks in the meta are we fighting here?
My logic for including Skullclamp is two-fold
1. As this deck is about going big instead of going wide, we have literally no use for Jungle Lion in our hand until our Savannah Lions on the field is killed. Skullclamp allows that card to be transmuted into card advantage.
2. If things move a turn too slowly and your enemy starts to stabilize, you may have more need for one of the few answers in this deck than you do for its many cheap creatures. In such a scenario, a digging tool like this is your friend.
With all of that said, you can probably replace the clamp with a sensei's divining top to get the same end effect... and to let you get the benefit at instant speed with any mana you aren't using anyways...
Running the Gaddock Teeg was more of an impulse pick than anything else. Shuts down most planeswalker, green sun zenith, and most wraths... though many aggro decks don't even notice it. Might want to replace with Song of the Dryads so that the deck has at least one "universal answer" (especially one that can take out aggressive commanders like Zurgo for a while).
I'll admit that I went with Lost Leonin for the dream that it represents. Hitting two times for the victory (once if you have Arahbo out) is a hilarious prospect. In most cases, though, I admit that the Longtusk Cub is a better choice.
One other card that I found for the deck (almost by accident) is Triangle of War. While it technically costs 3 mana like ambuscade, the colorless cost and ability to split that cost up might make it worth a shot.
Edited my list.
I think Insight is good since you dont have to sac, and instant speed.
Greater Good is amazing here! Honestly, its the Skullclamp replacement I prefer (I know thats probably debatable).
Consider Skullclamp, first there are only about a dozen creatures with 1 toughness to get an immeadiate effect. Second, you will need pay mana each time, 4 cards would cost cost 2 mana plus the mana to play Skullclamp.
Greater Good costs 4, so we won't be able to cast it til mid game, but that is when we need it most. The first activation should draw 4-5 cards. Sure we discard 3, but that is like looting, we are drawing because we need an answer. The second activation should also get 4-5 cards. So in two turns we have dug 8-10 cards into our deck. That would cost 5-6 mana with Skullclamp, which only works on 1 toughness creatures.
(I am not a fan of Momentous Fall actually.)
On a different note, how about totem armor?
I like these for the deck
Maybe
Not sure. Seems playable. 2 mana is a lot in this deck. I wouldnt want to cast until turn 4 most likely. Perhaps Mirri's Guile would be more efficient.
We're still figuring this deck out.
I fear that Greater Good might be a bit slow for a hyper-aggro build. If we wanted to go in that direction, I'd definitely recommend running the cheaper Fauna Shaman and Survival of the Fittest first as they can fetch toolbox creatures (Mother of Runes, Ulvenwald Tracker, Leonin Relic Warder) and might allow the deck to support Brawn and Genesis for incidental trample and revival.
Hunter's Insight likewise has a (relatively) high cost for a combat "buff", even if the ceiling is high. Certainly worth experimenting for.
I support experimenting with Hyena Umbra and Spider Umbra, though I'd recommend only playing them in your postcombat main phase to avoid having an instant-speed abrade or lightning bolt 2-1 you out of nowhere.
Mirri's Guile and Sylvan Library are perfectly serviceable cards.
Hmmm... Let me try applying the old 8x8 theory to this deck.
1. Card Advantage/Control Package (Worldly Tutor, Mirri's Guile, Sylvan Library, Green Sun's Zenith, Life's Legacy, Enlightened Tutor, Sensei's Divining Top, Survival of the Fittest)
2. Buff Package (Flickering Ward, Gryff's Boon, Rancor, Berserk, Rhonas, Emerge Unscathed, Dromoka's Command, Selesnya Charm)
3. Minor Stax/Denial Package (Gaddock Teeg, Leonin Arbiter, Mirri, Static Orb, Winter Orb, Cataclysm, Armageddon, Thalia Heretic Cathar)
4. Answers Package (Aura Shards, Qasali Pridemage, Leonin Relic Warder, Natural State, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Ulvenwald Tracker, Oppressive Rays)
5. One-Drop Package (Mother of Runes, Steppe Lynx, Savannah Lions, Jungle Lions, Scythe Leopard, Loam Lion, Wild Nacatl, Pouncing Leopard)
6. Two-Drop Package (Oreskos Swiftclaw, Initiate's Companion, Blade of the Sixth Pride, Fleecemane Lion, Adorned Pouncer, Metallic Mimic, Leonin Snarecaster, Longtusk Cub)
7. Equipment Package (Steelshaper's Gift, Stoneforged Mystic, Open the Armory, Umezawa's Jitte, Swiftfoot Boots, Hot Soup, Bonesplitter, Bloodforged Battle-Axe)
8. Miscellaneous Cats (Wily Bandar, Glittering Lynx, Sacred Cat, Brimaz, Mirror Entity, Pride Sovereign, Arahbo, Skyhunter Skirmisher)
And that deck would look like this:
1 Wily Bandar
1 Glittering Lynx
1 Sacred Cat
1 Steppe Lynx
1 Scythe Leopard
1 Pouncing Jaguar
1 Jungle Lion
1 Savannah Lions
1 Loam Lion
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Mother of Runes
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Oreskos Swiftclaw
2 Blade of the Sixth Pride
2 Initiate's Companion
2 Fleecemane Lion
2 Adorned Pouncer
2 Leonin Snarecaster
2 Longtusk Cub
2 Metallic Mimic
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Leonin Arbiter
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Pride Sovereign
3 Mirror Entity
3 Skyhunter Skirmisher
3 Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist
3 Rhonas the Indomitable
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
5 Arahbo, Roar of the Wild
1 Flickering Ward
1 Rancor
1 Gryff's Boon
1 Oppressive Rays
1 Mirri's Guile
2 Survival of the Fittest
2 Sylvan Library
3 Aura Shards
Instants (9)
1 Emerge Unscathed
1 Berserk
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Natural State
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Selesnya Charm
Sorceries (6)
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Steelshaper's Gift
2 Open the Armory
2 Life's Legacy
4 Cataclysm
4 Armageddon
1 Hot Soup
1 Bloodforged Battle-Axe
1 Bonesplitter
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Winter Orb
3 Static Orb