Nerf Vial and make all other non-vial partners unplayable. If you want to nerf only vial, than ban him as a partner commander would make everyone happy, who has Vial continues to have it, and who has other partners don't get axed because of one broken C16 commander. Anyway, boros partner the second most played combination is slightly weaker in the 30HP meta, that I consider in the thread because "future-1v1-format-by-wizards", is totally okay even with the current tax it has. I don't play it because I don't like aggro so much, but I would play against it anytime on Leviathan, it is extremely fair as it is, at 20HP he is just fast and gains life to win the race against all the race to 20 damage decks available(Geist, Titania, Zurgo...), that is why the combination is being played so much. At 30HP, if you nerf his tax, he becomes unplayable (and I'm talking about the probably second best commander combination available).
I don't really know why people say Partner is the problem, when I see only Vial as the way out of the boundaries, Boros partner is only played a lot also because of how the meta has become, at the old 30HP meta, this would be just one more out of the many tier 1.5 decks that were available. Best way to get everyone with their commander is exactly as I told, at 30HP if they make this unlikely decision to ban Vial as a partner commander, then all 15 Partner commanders are okay! I think their decision will probably just ban him, but who knows, maybe they are more creative.
Yeah the sum taxing would just inconvenience Vial/Kraum while destroying Boros Partners, Bruse/Reyhan Thrasios/Tymna and Reyhan/Thrasios.
If you want to nerf Vial Smasher but keep it legal and the others playable, ban Kraum. It isn't played in any other deck and having to play Ludevic or go 4c for blue would be a decent punishment.
Thrasio without Vial is rarely played on 20HP, why would it become a boss at 30HP? I think he is more powerful at 30HP than 20HP, but still he is slow, doesn't do nothing when on the battlefield and needs a 4 mana investment to get C.A, Titania probably just rocks over the deck 1 extra card advantage, because you know, she is a 3-for-1.
I don't know how people don't realize yet that Vial (even if deserves ban) is only a part of the problem while the Mechanic itself is the real thing to fix.
Because the mechanics are broken on very weak commanders, that is the point. I can take up any time any partner combination without Vial that I just feel it totally okay. I participate on the Leviathan community, I didn't see any partner combination, again with the exception of Vial, take up any tournaments. I've seen some third, fourth place, but I don't remember any of them actually being too oppressive. The same goes for 20HP DC, even the Boros partner looks like a choice of meta (It gains lifelink) rather than actually power level, I bet you if Bruse didn't give you lifelink, he wouldn't even be close to what he is being played, and lifelink is only awesome because of what the meta has become, lifelink is very useless against a lot of the top 30HP commanders like Maelstrom, Narset, Animar... But is simply outstanding vs Zurgo for example, it would be a barely tier 1 deck probably just a competitive boros.
If you can give one single example of a Partner deck with extra taxes that would survive with the exception of Vial, I'd be pleased to hear, but the C16 commanders are just awful if you take them their mechanics or nerf them.
People you were always dealing with a much more poweful commander when it comes to taxes (Titania), because tecnically against non-blue decks, she is always one mana away from casting again, her tax is like 1 instead of 2, and she has a much more relevant ability than the 14 partners, why would she be fair and they aren't.
I don't know how people don't realize yet that Vial (even if deserves ban) is only a part of the problem while the Mechanic itself is the real thing to fix.
While I agree with you, I dont think magic has ever banned based on this kind of thinking. In the future if we get more partner commanders they must be created with current and future partners in mind. However in the past with other broken mechanics (ex. Storm) the cards had to be pretty garbage to not be broken, but the cards were just banned not the mechanic.
If vial is too strong we ban vial. If in the future another partner is too strong we ban that. Since wizards doesn't care nothing else we can do.
And we're being pretty conservative thinking from the a perspective where they'll take what's been done in mind.
They may not ban some of the most opressive commanders ever (Zur, Darevi).
They may ban cards because they bug MOL rather than because of power level.
They may dismiss the tuck rule.
They may add sideboards.
There's too many possibilities for change in the horizon, and that's before taking into account that Amonkhet will be brand new at the format's birth, wich may bring even more variables to even speculatively brew around.
That's why I've literally stopped speculating decks for Duel too. We're suffering the Great Hiatus once again. We had this when 20 life was announced (but no banlist) and we're having now too. I don't know if French Duel matters anymore, so I refuse to spend energy trying to think of ways to improve my lists or even to care about the format. Until Wizards' list is here, I'm just waiting.
What would the reaction be if WOTC allowed 1v1 edh to have sideboards? It's a thought that came to me yesterday and TBH I think that would be very exciting.
I really don't like sideboard on commander, sideboard powers up even further decks that have more resilient ways to find it (Black/Blue/Green), and powers down the already less used colors (Red/White) since they have a harder time to find what they want. Also sideboard makes goodstuff/multicolored decks that already are very strong on the format, even stronger since you will have an extremely hard time Sideboarding against Marath, Geist, Jenara or Anafenza/Doran, but against the already Tier 2 decks like Zurgo(Tier 2 on 30HP), Thalia, Reanimator(Kaalia/Mimeoplasm), Daretti, Ezuri and many others, it is easy to put some hate that crushes their deck, which people WILL have, GY hate or monocolored hate on SB is mandatory on almost any format, but Graveyard/monocolored decks/decks that sinergizes with their cards(Storm, Doomsday, Artifacts, counters) on 1v1 Commander have always been Tier 2 decks, at maximum tier 1.5, but will have an extremely hard time fighting against hate, different from most of the tier 1 decks.
Sideboard also takes time, I don't think it is necessary on Commander, it would unbalance too much in favor of the already dominant goodstuff decks that don't run more specific strategies, and that aren't tied to a single color.
What would the reaction be if WOTC allowed 1v1 edh to have sideboards? It's a thought that came to me yesterday and TBH I think that would be very exciting.
Why wouldn't a 1v1 tournament format have a sideboard?
Because of how Commander works, you have one of each, not all colors benefits from hate cards like other formats since you can't find them consistently depending on the color you are running. Also other formats like Legacy are filled with synergic cards that make some decks absurd without hate like Storm, Reanimator, Miracles, the only tier 1 goodstuff decks if I'm right, now are BUG and Delver, all others are synergic decks that work well (DnT, Show and Tell, Lands, Burn...) On Commander its the opposite, most tier 1 decks are actually goodstuff because of the singleton way the format works, its harder to combine cards and the decks that do, are very susceptible to hate, the only tier 1 deck I know that would get cripled by hate is High Tide, all the other tier 1 decks don't actually care about it, but the tier 2 decks that are still competitive care a lot if it does happen.
On one hand, Mardu which is the weakest triad right now, is the absolute lord of sideboard tech so it'd be helping them a lot.
On the other hand, 30lp matches already go to time all the time. If control is very relevant in the format you won't be ending 1v1 Commander FNM before midnight.
On one hand, Mardu which is the weakest triad right now, is the absolute lord of sideboard tech so it'd be helping them a lot.
On the other hand, 30lp matches already go to time all the time. If control is very relevant in the format you won't be ending 1v1 Commander FNM before midnight.
I'm not sure this is so relevant? I mean, never once have I ever seen an FNM of any format (even when I still played Standard during SOM-ISD era) end at any time before 1am.......
Tournament formats need sideboards to be viable as a competitive format, otherwise we are back to players getting mad because they have no outs to MLD or certain combos.
Tournament formats need sideboards to be viable as a competitive format, otherwise we are back to players getting mad because they have no outs to MLD or certain combos.
If a format caters to players who get mad that their deck has no outs, I wouldn't call it a competitive format.
Tournament formats need sideboards to be viable as a competitive format, otherwise we are back to players getting mad because they have no outs to MLD or certain combos.
If a format caters to players who get mad that their deck has no outs, I wouldn't call it a competitive format.
Tournament formats need sideboards to be viable as a competitive format, otherwise we are back to players getting mad because they have no outs to MLD or certain combos.
If a format caters to players who get mad that their deck has no outs, I wouldn't call it a competitive format.
Literally every tournament format has sideboards.
And literally every tournament is a 60 card, 4-of-each.
Commander is not only a different format, it changes a lot how magic is played, you can NOT consider the "basic rules" as something for commander also because it has in other formats. That explains a LOT why 20HP struggles to actually work, it warps totally how MTG is played, that is why I love it so much, and to put SB you need to know what will be the impacts, and as you can see, most people who play a lot this format does know its impact can be very very bad. You can not treat it as "Legacy"
Tournament formats need sideboards to be viable as a competitive format, otherwise we are back to players getting mad because they have no outs to MLD or certain combos.
If a format caters to players who get mad that their deck has no outs, I wouldn't call it a competitive format.
Literally every tournament format has sideboards.
And literally every tournament is a 60 card, 4-of-each.
Commander is not only a different format, it changes a lot how magic is played, you can NOT consider the "basic rules" as something for commander also because it has in other formats. That explains a LOT why 20HP struggles to actually work, it warps totally how MTG is played, that is why I love it so much, and to put SB you need to know what will be the impacts, and as you can see, most people who play a lot this format does know its impact can be very very bad. You can not treat it as "Legacy"
Tiny Leaders is a singleton format with a 50 card deck and 10 card sideboard. The sideboard is a tool for tournament play, not deck construction rules.
Sideboards are important because if you want to have a competitive environment you end up having a couple of strategies that are just 'the best', and sometimes these best strategies are just so oppressive that they push others from the meta. Sideboards give other decks a chance to beat them, when the other option is ban things left and right, which is what we are currently doing in the format.
Saying one color is better than others in sideboarding is saying that one color is better than others in spot removal or interacting instant speed. That's part of the color pie. It's as unfair as green having poor creature removal and black not touching enchantments, so not unfair at all as they compensate these disadvantages in other areas.
I F5 while writing and I don't really care to write it all again so here it is. If you prefer not to test things and keep it all theoretical then this format is just great for you. The italians that tested sideboards ended up liking it on their tournaments and not warping the format to people just playing B for tutors, so assuming it's bad here w/o testing is not the way to go.
I couldn't understand what you said but don't worry, I too don't give a f* about you or what you're saying
Anyway, next week we'll be having the Duel Commander committee announcement about bans and I read somewhere that one of the commitee memebrs, Moondust, will be attending a french twitch stream to answer questions people might have. Would be cool to have a francophone member to step forward so he could take questions we might have to them. I just can't find where they posted this.
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I don't really know why people say Partner is the problem, when I see only Vial as the way out of the boundaries, Boros partner is only played a lot also because of how the meta has become, at the old 30HP meta, this would be just one more out of the many tier 1.5 decks that were available. Best way to get everyone with their commander is exactly as I told, at 30HP if they make this unlikely decision to ban Vial as a partner commander, then all 15 Partner commanders are okay! I think their decision will probably just ban him, but who knows, maybe they are more creative.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
If you want to nerf Vial Smasher but keep it legal and the others playable, ban Kraum. It isn't played in any other deck and having to play Ludevic or go 4c for blue would be a decent punishment.
Because the mechanics are broken on very weak commanders, that is the point. I can take up any time any partner combination without Vial that I just feel it totally okay. I participate on the Leviathan community, I didn't see any partner combination, again with the exception of Vial, take up any tournaments. I've seen some third, fourth place, but I don't remember any of them actually being too oppressive. The same goes for 20HP DC, even the Boros partner looks like a choice of meta (It gains lifelink) rather than actually power level, I bet you if Bruse didn't give you lifelink, he wouldn't even be close to what he is being played, and lifelink is only awesome because of what the meta has become, lifelink is very useless against a lot of the top 30HP commanders like Maelstrom, Narset, Animar... But is simply outstanding vs Zurgo for example, it would be a barely tier 1 deck probably just a competitive boros.
If you can give one single example of a Partner deck with extra taxes that would survive with the exception of Vial, I'd be pleased to hear, but the C16 commanders are just awful if you take them their mechanics or nerf them.
People you were always dealing with a much more poweful commander when it comes to taxes (Titania), because tecnically against non-blue decks, she is always one mana away from casting again, her tax is like 1 instead of 2, and she has a much more relevant ability than the 14 partners, why would she be fair and they aren't.
While I agree with you, I dont think magic has ever banned based on this kind of thinking. In the future if we get more partner commanders they must be created with current and future partners in mind. However in the past with other broken mechanics (ex. Storm) the cards had to be pretty garbage to not be broken, but the cards were just banned not the mechanic.
If vial is too strong we ban vial. If in the future another partner is too strong we ban that. Since wizards doesn't care nothing else we can do.
This is a topic about a format that'll be managed by Wizards, though. So I don't get what you mean.
They may not ban some of the most opressive commanders ever (Zur, Darevi).
They may ban cards because they bug MOL rather than because of power level.
They may dismiss the tuck rule.
They may add sideboards.
There's too many possibilities for change in the horizon, and that's before taking into account that Amonkhet will be brand new at the format's birth, wich may bring even more variables to even speculatively brew around.
Sideboard also takes time, I don't think it is necessary on Commander, it would unbalance too much in favor of the already dominant goodstuff decks that don't run more specific strategies, and that aren't tied to a single color.
Why wouldn't a 1v1 tournament format have a sideboard?
On the other hand, 30lp matches already go to time all the time. If control is very relevant in the format you won't be ending 1v1 Commander FNM before midnight.
I'm not sure this is so relevant? I mean, never once have I ever seen an FNM of any format (even when I still played Standard during SOM-ISD era) end at any time before 1am.......
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Literally every tournament format has sideboards.
And literally every tournament is a 60 card, 4-of-each.
Commander is not only a different format, it changes a lot how magic is played, you can NOT consider the "basic rules" as something for commander also because it has in other formats. That explains a LOT why 20HP struggles to actually work, it warps totally how MTG is played, that is why I love it so much, and to put SB you need to know what will be the impacts, and as you can see, most people who play a lot this format does know its impact can be very very bad. You can not treat it as "Legacy"
Tiny Leaders is a singleton format with a 50 card deck and 10 card sideboard. The sideboard is a tool for tournament play, not deck construction rules.
Saying one color is better than others in sideboarding is saying that one color is better than others in spot removal or interacting instant speed. That's part of the color pie. It's as unfair as green having poor creature removal and black not touching enchantments, so not unfair at all as they compensate these disadvantages in other areas.
Anyway, next week we'll be having the Duel Commander committee announcement about bans and I read somewhere that one of the commitee memebrs, Moondust, will be attending a french twitch stream to answer questions people might have. Would be cool to have a francophone member to step forward so he could take questions we might have to them. I just can't find where they posted this.