I really really dislike Sheltering Ancient. First of all it only produces 1 mana the turn it come into play with selvala. Second of all its upkeep cost requires your opponent to have a creature in play, and many many current top tier decks have literally near 0 creatures, such as Narset, Maelstrom wanderer or Jace vryn prodigy, nin pain artist... I do not believe you can afford playing such a card, that will make strong matchup stronger, and weak matchups weaker.
lf l'm not wrong l believe it produces 2 mana the turn it comes into play. lt costs 2 to cast + 1 to activate Selvala and you gain 5. Also it probably draws you a card since it is a 5/5. Anything that nets you +2 mana is a Dark Ritual and that's the cut lMO to play as acceleration. That gives the chance to cast a 6 drop turn 3 w/ 1 mana elf in play or a 7 drop by turn 4.
Selvala herself costs 1 mana to activate and gives you 2 mana, so he's saying the Ancient nets you 1 additional mana on top of that, at the cost of a card. It's a Lotus Petal if you play it and activate Selvala on the same turn, and he is saying it's far from a sure bet to be played turn 3 and activated turn 4. I'd tend to agree here. Compare with Invigorate, which seems to not be making the cut these days, which is a net of 4 mana on the turn you play it...
Ah I haven't updated the list in awhile, but I cut Ravaging Riftwurm for Crop Rotation again and cut something else for Sylvan Scrying. Yeah Sheltering Ancient is pretty bad vs control, but it can be GSZ'ed or Summoner's Pact'ed if you need to ramp to 6 in a pinch. Invigorate doesn't replace itself for CA and can't be tutored, although it produces significantly more mana than Ancient. It produces less mana than Dreadnought, but 1 more mana than Soulgorger.
Jibux, do you think I should cut Ancient altogether? You make a pretty convincing argument that it's bad, but what do you think of the alternative, Lupine Prototype and Myr Superion?
Lupine is almost as useless against control since it never attacks or blocks, but at least it sits there and adds mana for next turn if you still haven't won the game or been boardwiped. Myr Superion can't be cast efficiently, and by that I mean not having to tap Selvala to cast it. Neither are as easily tutorable as Ancient.
I'm never going to run Wastes, because it only matters when casting Thought-Knot Seer, and we have enough colorless lands that enable us to do that. In fact I often find that I can never find the second G source to cast Selvala on t2 or t3 which is frustrating, because we have too many colorless sources.
@Mikel: Sheltering Ancient is not Lotus Petal because it replaces itself with Selvala's trigger (usually).
Here are the changes:
-1 Exploration
+1 Mox Diamond
-1 Sheltering Ancient
+1 Crop Rotation
-1 Lightning Greaves
+1 Sylvan Scrying
I tested Elvish Visionary and didn't like it. It's too low impact and we don't find Symbiote often enough. I swapped the Ravaging Riftwurm cut for Sheltering Ancient. Might be better to just run Invigorate over either, who knows.
I'm never going to run Wastes, because it only matters when casting Thought-Knot Seer, and we have enough colorless lands that enable us to do that. In fact I often find that I can never find the second G source to cast Selvala on t2 or t3 which is frustrating, because we have too many colorless sources.
I feel your pain; 5 years of playing Captain Sisay and I still struggle with the right balance of utility lands vs.. being able to consistently cast my color-mana hungry spells on turns 2 to 3. I'm back to once again playing Sakura-Tribe Elder and both Three Visits and Nature's Lore to smooth out all the many situations that I open with a single color-producing land and a colorless land. I even dropped Nykthos for cryin' out loud! It under-performed in Sisay, but I'm not sure how it's been treatin' ya here. Anyway, possibly worth consideration if you're on the fence about particular colorless lands.
Nah Nykthos is great here since we're monogreen. It's even better than Gaea's Cradle in some cases, and is one of the best Crop Rotation targets alongside Cavern, Eye and Wirewood Lodge.
Sylvan Ranger has been a great colour fixer and curve option in our deck. It's so much better than Nissa tempo-wise and gets us our second green source for Selvala on turn 3.
I don't think we need Nature's Lore/Sakura-Tribe Elder because our curve is usually one mana to three, and then three to five. Sisay is different because it's two to four and so forth.
Yeah, quite different indeed, though still the closest thing being played/vigorously tested right now to Sisay and I desperately need your expertise because I play a fraction of the amount that you do and I feel like I owe you for all the tech I keep stealing and my thread is so distressingly quiet. ;_;
(I started running Hall of the Bandit Lord again! I missed it so.)
Yeah I'll give Beast tracker a go. It's definiteley better than Sylvan Tutor since you can GSZ for 3 to effectively have Dreadnought on top. Yep I cut Ancient today, but kept Ravaging Riftwurm in. High Market + Emrakul lock sounds awesome, although it's definitely winmore heh. It's reminiscent of the Mindslaver + Academy Ruins locks and Daretti + Mindslaver locks, but they don't get a 15/15 flying spaghetti monster thrown in for value.
Also since I run Crop + Sylvan which can find Homeward Path I probably don't need to run High Market.
Edit: Now that you mentioned Woodland Bellower + Beast Tracker, you can stack Selvala's draw trigger from Bellower to resolve last and after both Bellower's and Beast Tracker's ETB triggers so that you can immediately draw the Dreadnought. I'm sure that will come in handy some day.
For my multiplayer deck I'm having issues with creatures (eg. linvala, iona, combo generals, etc) and would love an easily fetchable creature that can kill other creatures. What do you guys think of ulvenwald tracker?
I already run beast within and mouth of ronom (and duplicant, of course). I don't generally think of mouth of ronom since I rarely see that card so maybe I'll look at it a different way and add crop rotation and sylvan scrying. Normally those cards read "search your library for gaea's cradle and..." but tutoring for mouth of ronom would definitely be worth it sometimes.
Also Nissa, Vital Force is already better than Garruk 2.0. She has 3 relevant abilities and ramps harder than both Garruks with Selvala in play (t3 five mana t4 ten mana). She doesn't draw a card like the token modes of the Garruks, but you can Regrowth if you don't want to run the risk of getting your land killed by a sweeper. If you -3 on turn 3 when you cast her and get board wiped on your opponents turn, next turn you just +1 and cast Selvala for 5.
I think she's easily the best Nissa printed yet.
I've tested Mwonvuli Beast-Tracker alot. It's generally not that good, and especially bad when you're behind. It might be borderline playable if it was an Elf, but it would be too good if the card went directly to your hand, since we would get two Fierce Empaths but an even better Empath.
Also Nissa, Vital Force is not quite as good as I hyped it out to myself to be. Garruk, Primal Hunter's +1 is higher impact because it replaces Garruk and you don't lose a land when your opponent board wipes. The Soul's Majesty is gamebreaking and always much better than Regrowth. None of Nissa's other modes are on the same level as Garruk's two abilities. If you untap with Selvana and 3/3 Beast you have 7 mana, which is about as good as 10 mana with Nissa and the 5/5.
Today I found potentially interesting tech: Metamorphosis. Thoughts?
I'm definitely adding Gemstone Caverns back in now, since I recently put in more 2 drops like Sylvan Scrying and Sylvan Ranger that would go well with turn 1 Gemstone + land. Part of the reason I cut it was because I found it lacking as a conditional Mox and I hated getting color screwed after drawing it after turn 1.
I tested Warping Wail before and didn't like having to leave two mana up against Slagstorm or Wrath, but maybe I'll give it another shot. Not sure if Boseiju is worth it just for Tooth and Nail since we can't even tutor for that. I also feel like I'm at the limit for colorless lands too.
Yes I may have to test Dosan, Gaea's Herald, Warping Wail, City of Solitude, Hall of Gemstone just to beat URx decks. Also Jenara isn't too hard since they don't run sweepers. I'd say it's a 50-50 matchup if you avoid Jitte and Linvala.
I also find for plan B one activation is enough to win the game. Emrakul v2 usually wins on the spot in the lategame if you know what you're doing.
Yes throne is clunky, I might cut it again for gemstone or i might just cut a basic land for gemstone. Weird Harvest is usually meant to be played when you have the mana available to win on the spot. 6 mana and Selvala untapped is GG with Harvest. x=2 for dreadnought + eldrazi and 2 mana leftover to cast Dreadnought and activate Selvala.
Assuming dork + Selvala it's a 3 mana 5/5 but it doesn't trigger Selvala's draw because it's a 1/1 before it gets the counters so I don't think he's good enough. Not to mention if you draw this after a board wipe or when Selvala dies it's a really bad vanilla 2/2 or 3/3.
Omnath is too slow for duel and has no immediate impact, meaning no draw trigger and no immediate ramp. You have to wait a turn before you get the huge mana boost and in that time Animar will combo you out or Narset will wrath/kill Selvala.
Assuming best scenario of Forest every turn, t1 dork t2 Selvala and t3 Omnath you float two green at EOT. On t4 tap four lands and dork to float another 7 making Onnath 8/8, spend one mana to activate Selvala for 7 and in total you have 14 green mana. ONE SHORT of Emrakul as always...what is up with this deck and hitting only 14 mana amirite?
Edit: just realised you do get a draw trigger if you float your two remaining green mana as you cast him on turn 3, because his ability is state-based and he enters as a 3/3. In that case he does have immediate impact as he replaces himself. My impression is that the recently cut Riftwurm is better since that accels on the same turn he is cast but you never know. Omnath functions without Selvala so that is a big plus. I will test him!
Really pushing my colorless land limit here. Putting back Temple in again because it's such a good late game draw especially in grindy games, and we sometimes even Crop Rotate for it. Helps cast Selvala for 7 mana from 5 mana if you have 4 lands + dork and draw Temple when she gets removed.
Also Command Beacon might be worth a shot because casting our general is so important. It could be better than Temple of the False God.
-1 Farhaven Elf
+1 Nissa, Worldwaker
I proxied new Nissa, Vital Force for Nissa, Worldwaker and often found that I just end up treating her as Worldwaker instead. Her ramp is so powerful in monogreen especially when you keep getting boardwiped. When they tap out to wrath you, just untap your forests and cast a huge spell and win. She might be a new staple honestly.
5 drops are actually nice to curve out the turn after casting selvala. Which is a point for Nissa. And I miss acidic slime and will probably put it back in the deck.
I've already lost games with Emrahkul V2 being cast, but I've never lost games with Emrahkul V1 being cast, maybe this information can help a little xD.
For example, if you mindslave a Maelstrom Wanderer, what will you do with his hand which is probably... Wrath/ramp/planeswalker, then just probably pass the turn and lose the whole effect of mindslaving since it will be his turn. Ulamog would do way more against this match then Emrahkul V2, I think having more options is great, almost all Nissas run both Emrahkul V1 and Ulamog, why would we cut them here?
Emrakul v1 is literally only ever bad when you're facing Titania and 6+ lands. I don't know how you could ever cut Ulamog, since he's much better as a turn 3 or 4 cast off of a Dreadnought than Emrakul v2, which is useless in the early game.
Farhaven and Solemn were added in as a midrange ramp B plan in the cases Selvala + our dorks don't stick. Farhaven was very underwhelming and was cut for Nissa Worldwaker and now it looks like Solemn is next to be cut for a more impactful 4-5 drop like Somberwald Stag, a tutor such as Expedition Map or Sylvan Tutor. Solemn was definitely better than Farhaven because of Pod and the LTB trigger, and also since any 3 drop naturally competes with Selvala, it gets treated as a 4-5 drop that competes with Solemn (the current weakest 4-5 drop).
edit: might replace Solemn with the new Wild Wanderer. It's almost strictly better than Farhaven Elf since we don't run clamp. Instant draw trigger with the power 3 makes her better than Solemn, which only draws once he dies.
feelings after long tests:
1) solemn and farhaven are too slow and useless. Of course they help in our plan B, but i feel that it is too slow. I still run farhaven, but i made - solemn + earthcraft. The card is amazing. With all our deck
2) the deck is still fragile. Lets keep working on it ((=
other feelings and thoughts i will later
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lf l'm not wrong l believe it produces 2 mana the turn it comes into play. lt costs 2 to cast + 1 to activate Selvala and you gain 5. Also it probably draws you a card since it is a 5/5. Anything that nets you +2 mana is a Dark Ritual and that's the cut lMO to play as acceleration. That gives the chance to cast a 6 drop turn 3 w/ 1 mana elf in play or a 7 drop by turn 4.
I really want to find space for Visionary
byes are for girls!
Jibux, do you think I should cut Ancient altogether? You make a pretty convincing argument that it's bad, but what do you think of the alternative, Lupine Prototype and Myr Superion?
Lupine is almost as useless against control since it never attacks or blocks, but at least it sits there and adds mana for next turn if you still haven't won the game or been boardwiped. Myr Superion can't be cast efficiently, and by that I mean not having to tap Selvala to cast it. Neither are as easily tutorable as Ancient.
I'm never going to run Wastes, because it only matters when casting Thought-Knot Seer, and we have enough colorless lands that enable us to do that. In fact I often find that I can never find the second G source to cast Selvala on t2 or t3 which is frustrating, because we have too many colorless sources.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
Here are the changes:
-1 Exploration
+1 Mox Diamond
-1 Sheltering Ancient
+1 Crop Rotation
-1 Lightning Greaves
+1 Sylvan Scrying
I tested Elvish Visionary and didn't like it. It's too low impact and we don't find Symbiote often enough. I swapped the Ravaging Riftwurm cut for Sheltering Ancient. Might be better to just run Invigorate over either, who knows.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
I feel your pain; 5 years of playing Captain Sisay and I still struggle with the right balance of utility lands vs.. being able to consistently cast my color-mana hungry spells on turns 2 to 3. I'm back to once again playing Sakura-Tribe Elder and both Three Visits and Nature's Lore to smooth out all the many situations that I open with a single color-producing land and a colorless land. I even dropped Nykthos for cryin' out loud! It under-performed in Sisay, but I'm not sure how it's been treatin' ya here. Anyway, possibly worth consideration if you're on the fence about particular colorless lands.
::disappears back into the lurker-sphere::
My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
Sylvan Ranger has been a great colour fixer and curve option in our deck. It's so much better than Nissa tempo-wise and gets us our second green source for Selvala on turn 3.
I don't think we need Nature's Lore/Sakura-Tribe Elder because our curve is usually one mana to three, and then three to five. Sisay is different because it's two to four and so forth.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
(I started running Hall of the Bandit Lord again! I missed it so.)
My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
Also since I run Crop + Sylvan which can find Homeward Path I probably don't need to run High Market.
Edit: Now that you mentioned Woodland Bellower + Beast Tracker, you can stack Selvala's draw trigger from Bellower to resolve last and after both Bellower's and Beast Tracker's ETB triggers so that you can immediately draw the Dreadnought. I'm sure that will come in handy some day.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
I think she's easily the best Nissa printed yet.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
Also Nissa, Vital Force is not quite as good as I hyped it out to myself to be. Garruk, Primal Hunter's +1 is higher impact because it replaces Garruk and you don't lose a land when your opponent board wipes. The Soul's Majesty is gamebreaking and always much better than Regrowth. None of Nissa's other modes are on the same level as Garruk's two abilities. If you untap with Selvana and 3/3 Beast you have 7 mana, which is about as good as 10 mana with Nissa and the 5/5.
Today I found potentially interesting tech: Metamorphosis. Thoughts?
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
I tested Warping Wail before and didn't like having to leave two mana up against Slagstorm or Wrath, but maybe I'll give it another shot. Not sure if Boseiju is worth it just for Tooth and Nail since we can't even tutor for that. I also feel like I'm at the limit for colorless lands too.
Yes I may have to test Dosan, Gaea's Herald, Warping Wail, City of Solitude, Hall of Gemstone just to beat URx decks. Also Jenara isn't too hard since they don't run sweepers. I'd say it's a 50-50 matchup if you avoid Jitte and Linvala.
I also find for plan B one activation is enough to win the game. Emrakul v2 usually wins on the spot in the lategame if you know what you're doing.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
Assuming best scenario of Forest every turn, t1 dork t2 Selvala and t3 Omnath you float two green at EOT. On t4 tap four lands and dork to float another 7 making Onnath 8/8, spend one mana to activate Selvala for 7 and in total you have 14 green mana. ONE SHORT of Emrakul as always...what is up with this deck and hitting only 14 mana amirite?
Edit: just realised you do get a draw trigger if you float your two remaining green mana as you cast him on turn 3, because his ability is state-based and he enters as a 3/3. In that case he does have immediate impact as he replaces himself. My impression is that the recently cut Riftwurm is better since that accels on the same turn he is cast but you never know. Omnath functions without Selvala so that is a big plus. I will test him!
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
+1 Gemstone Caverns
-1 Snow-Covered Forest
+1 Temple of the False God
Really pushing my colorless land limit here. Putting back Temple in again because it's such a good late game draw especially in grindy games, and we sometimes even Crop Rotate for it. Helps cast Selvala for 7 mana from 5 mana if you have 4 lands + dork and draw Temple when she gets removed.
Also Command Beacon might be worth a shot because casting our general is so important. It could be better than Temple of the False God.
-1 Farhaven Elf
+1 Nissa, Worldwaker
I proxied new Nissa, Vital Force for Nissa, Worldwaker and often found that I just end up treating her as Worldwaker instead. Her ramp is so powerful in monogreen especially when you keep getting boardwiped. When they tap out to wrath you, just untap your forests and cast a huge spell and win. She might be a new staple honestly.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
I've already lost games with Emrahkul V2 being cast, but I've never lost games with Emrahkul V1 being cast, maybe this information can help a little xD.
For example, if you mindslave a Maelstrom Wanderer, what will you do with his hand which is probably... Wrath/ramp/planeswalker, then just probably pass the turn and lose the whole effect of mindslaving since it will be his turn. Ulamog would do way more against this match then Emrahkul V2, I think having more options is great, almost all Nissas run both Emrahkul V1 and Ulamog, why would we cut them here?
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
edit: might replace Solemn with the new Wild Wanderer. It's almost strictly better than Farhaven Elf since we don't run clamp. Instant draw trigger with the power 3 makes her better than Solemn, which only draws once he dies.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
1) solemn and farhaven are too slow and useless. Of course they help in our plan B, but i feel that it is too slow. I still run farhaven, but i made - solemn + earthcraft. The card is amazing. With all our deck
2) the deck is still fragile. Lets keep working on it ((=
other feelings and thoughts i will later
byes are for girls!