So actually, your only W spells now are Swords, Stoneforge and Vindicate. Other can be played for B or R.
Is it worth splashing there even white?
Instead of Swords, you could have Ashes to ashes, if you get Eq before Stonforge, he's dead draw. And vindicate is strong, thats true. I like the list, a lot. Also, the idea to play her as double color not triple.
But isnt boros better aggro than rakdos? If you really want aggro deck?
EDIT: oh yeah, forgot about armageddon..
I think your revision has made the deck a lot more focused. That said, I think you should drop Hero's downfall and Vindicate. I would think you typically want to kill creatures and 3 mana for killing a creature is too much in something agressive. If you want to keep them I would suggest Council's judgement over hero's downfall. Losing instant but gaining the ability to exile any non-land without targeting seems good.
Why did you remove tainted pact but didnt add more basics? It seems hard to get anything done with at most 4 non-red mana.
Stillmoon Cavalier seems a bit odd I think. I would think that you should be able to play good creatures and so on for a long time and hence do not really need the mana sink. I also think grenzo, dungeon warden is a better mana sink for you. Later ill suggest rebels, which are an even better mana sink.
Viscera Seer feels off right now. It is just a 1/1 for 1 that does not really do that much (you got 11 creatures you would ever want to sacrifice - except against removel - incl. the echo guys (who would typically auto sac anyway), magus of the moon (if you get color screwed), Brain maggot and Phyrexian Revoker (the latter two in case you want to change the targets) - hence a more fair count would be 6). It would be nice with the warden though.
Have you considered bloodghast? Alot of your cards likes to sac creatures and it is always nice with skullclamp. It also makes Entomb slightly better (I suspect that you typically fetching master of cruelties though)
Your creatures are typically small because of your commander, so mirror entity seems like it would be able to do a lot of damage easily.
If you add mirror entity you could also consider a mini-rebel suite - best mana sink ever. You need just a few rebels and they are quite deal or die with mirror entity, i.e. I have quite a few games like this: Play a 2 mana rebel fetcher turn 2 (there are a few to choose between - the exact one does not matter), fetch Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero turn 4, fetch mirror entity and Ramosian Sergeant turn 5, hit for 30 turn 6. Note 6 is quite slow, but this is a quite controlish situration (you could easily use one more turn to destroy whatever you oppeont is doing), used one card (so is in no way a dream hand and is easy to do when rebuilding - where it takes 3 turns to kill), and you do not actually look dangerous (the first time you do this to an oppeont anyway) - hence he might be ramping or playing other things that do not matter - before the end of your oppeonts last turn. I typically play the named rebels and 2 2 drop fetchers - there are quite a few to choose between - but more 2 drops is not bad either.
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So actually, your only W spells now are Swords, Stoneforge and Vindicate. Other can be played for B or R.
Is it worth splashing there even white?
Instead of Swords, you could have Ashes to ashes, if you get Eq before Stonforge, he's dead draw. And vindicate is strong, thats true. I like the list, a lot. Also, the idea to play her as double color not triple.
But isnt boros better aggro than rakdos? If you really want aggro deck?
EDIT: oh yeah, forgot about armageddon..
- Ashes is sorcery and three mana. Swords is instant and one mana. There really isn't a comparison to make. Between Plowshares, Stoneforge, 'Geddon, and Vindicate, I feel these four are "uncuttable".
- Going Rakdos or Boros is personal preference, I feel. I'm a Rakdos guy (and going Boros takes out a lot of your draw such as Bob, Rager, & Seer as well as Liliana, Wretch, Sinkhole, and Hexmage). Ultimately, the basis for B is so much stronger here than the basis for W.
I think your revision has made the deck a lot more focused. That said, I think you should drop Hero's downfall and Vindicate. I would think you typically want to kill creatures and 3 mana for killing a creature is too much in something agressive. If you want to keep them I would suggest Council's judgement over hero's downfall. Losing instant but gaining the ability to exile any non-land without targeting seems good.
Why did you remove tainted pact but didnt add more basics? It seems hard to get anything done with at most 4 non-red mana.
Stillmoon Cavalier seems a bit odd I think. I would think that you should be able to play good creatures and so on for a long time and hence do not really need the mana sink. I also think grenzo, dungeon warden is a better mana sink for you. Later ill suggest rebels, which are an even better mana sink.
Viscera Seer feels off right now. It is just a 1/1 for 1 that does not really do that much (you got 11 creatures you would ever want to sacrifice - except against removel - incl. the echo guys (who would typically auto sac anyway), magus of the moon (if you get color screwed), Brain maggot and Phyrexian Revoker (the latter two in case you want to change the targets) - hence a more fair count would be 6). It would be nice with the warden though.
Have you considered bloodghast? Alot of your cards likes to sac creatures and it is always nice with skullclamp. It also makes Entomb slightly better (I suspect that you typically fetching master of cruelties though)
Your creatures are typically small because of your commander, so mirror entity seems like it would be able to do a lot of damage easily.
If you add mirror entity you could also consider a mini-rebel suite - best mana sink ever. You need just a few rebels and they are quite deal or die with mirror entity, i.e. I have quite a few games like this: Play a 2 mana rebel fetcher turn 2 (there are a few to choose between - the exact one does not matter), fetch Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero turn 4, fetch mirror entity and Ramosian Sergeant turn 5, hit for 30 turn 6. Note 6 is quite slow, but this is a quite controlish situration (you could easily use one more turn to destroy whatever you oppeont is doing), used one card (so is in no way a dream hand and is easy to do when rebuilding - where it takes 3 turns to kill), and you do not actually look dangerous (the first time you do this to an oppeont anyway) - hence he might be ramping or playing other things that do not matter - before the end of your oppeonts last turn. I typically play the named rebels and 2 2 drop fetchers - there are quite a few to choose between - but more 2 drops is not bad either.
- Council's is good, but it's WW. That's not a good idea in a deck that is only splashing W. Downfall and Vindicate do so much more than hit creatures, they keep your options open. Vindicate especially because you can curve Sinkhole into that and put a lot of players on tilt. Downfall because, killing planeswalkers at instant speed can't be understated. I don't mind three cmc spot removal if it's an instant and has options.
I did add more basics. There's seven now. that number was eight until I swapped a Plains for Flagstones since, well that's an obvious choice. I also added more BR duals specifically, although one could conceivably slice the filter and signet land for another pair of basics?.
Stillmoon is still good because of it's protections. Stillmoon + a Jitte is fearsome indeed.
Sac outlets are value man. If we want to sac or not, it still makes our opponent's removal bad. Saying they "don't feel right" and then going into a discussion why I should add more white cards and play rebels is the definition of "doesn't feel right".
So actually, your only W spells now are Swords, Stoneforge and Vindicate. Other can be played for B or R.
Is it worth splashing there even white?
Instead of Swords, you could have Ashes to ashes, if you get Eq before Stonforge, he's dead draw. And vindicate is strong, thats true. I like the list, a lot. Also, the idea to play her as double color not triple.
But isnt boros better aggro than rakdos? If you really want aggro deck?
EDIT: oh yeah, forgot about armageddon..
- Ashes is sorcery and three mana. Swords is instant and one mana. There really isn't a comparison to make. Between Plowshares, Stoneforge, 'Geddon, and Vindicate, I feel these four are "uncuttable".
- Going Rakdos or Boros is personal preference, I feel. I'm a Rakdos guy (and going Boros takes out a lot of your draw such as Bob, Rager, & Seer as well as Liliana, Wretch, Sinkhole, and Hexmage). Ultimately, the basis for B is so much stronger here than the basis for W.
I think your revision has made the deck a lot more focused. That said, I think you should drop Hero's downfall and Vindicate. I would think you typically want to kill creatures and 3 mana for killing a creature is too much in something agressive. If you want to keep them I would suggest Council's judgement over hero's downfall. Losing instant but gaining the ability to exile any non-land without targeting seems good.
Why did you remove tainted pact but didnt add more basics? It seems hard to get anything done with at most 4 non-red mana.
Stillmoon Cavalier seems a bit odd I think. I would think that you should be able to play good creatures and so on for a long time and hence do not really need the mana sink. I also think grenzo, dungeon warden is a better mana sink for you. Later ill suggest rebels, which are an even better mana sink.
Viscera Seer feels off right now. It is just a 1/1 for 1 that does not really do that much (you got 11 creatures you would ever want to sacrifice - except against removel - incl. the echo guys (who would typically auto sac anyway), magus of the moon (if you get color screwed), Brain maggot and Phyrexian Revoker (the latter two in case you want to change the targets) - hence a more fair count would be 6). It would be nice with the warden though.
Have you considered bloodghast? Alot of your cards likes to sac creatures and it is always nice with skullclamp. It also makes Entomb slightly better (I suspect that you typically fetching master of cruelties though)
Your creatures are typically small because of your commander, so mirror entity seems like it would be able to do a lot of damage easily.
If you add mirror entity you could also consider a mini-rebel suite - best mana sink ever. You need just a few rebels and they are quite deal or die with mirror entity, i.e. I have quite a few games like this: Play a 2 mana rebel fetcher turn 2 (there are a few to choose between - the exact one does not matter), fetch Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero turn 4, fetch mirror entity and Ramosian Sergeant turn 5, hit for 30 turn 6. Note 6 is quite slow, but this is a quite controlish situration (you could easily use one more turn to destroy whatever you oppeont is doing), used one card (so is in no way a dream hand and is easy to do when rebuilding - where it takes 3 turns to kill), and you do not actually look dangerous (the first time you do this to an oppeont anyway) - hence he might be ramping or playing other things that do not matter - before the end of your oppeonts last turn. I typically play the named rebels and 2 2 drop fetchers - there are quite a few to choose between - but more 2 drops is not bad either.
- Council's is good, but it's WW. That's not a good idea in a deck that is only splashing W. Downfall and Vindicate do so much more than hit creatures, they keep your options open. Vindicate especially because you can curve Sinkhole into that and put a lot of players on tilt. Downfall because, killing planeswalkers at instant speed can't be understated. I don't mind three cmc spot removal if it's an instant and has options.
I did add more basics. There's seven now. that number was eight until I swapped a Plains for Flagstones since, well that's an obvious choice. I also added more BR duals specifically, although one could conceivably slice the filter and signet land for another pair of basics?.
Stillmoon is still good because of it's protections. Stillmoon + a Jitte is fearsome indeed.
Sac outlets are value man. If we want to sac or not, it still makes our opponent's removal bad. Saying they "don't feel right" and then going into a discussion why I should add more white cards and play rebels is the definition of "doesn't feel right".
I do not really think that 3 mana is good for removal in agro if it can not go for the head. I cant remember ever seeing anyone wanting to do that. Have you considered char? It should kill most creatures and walkers you meet but can also give you a bit more reach. It also got a easier mana cost.
I overlooked the addiontal swamp. Have you considered removing the basic mountains? Bloodmoon after all gives you all the mountains you need. It could be annoying against back to basics, but that depends on how often people play that in your meta.
I dont really view stillmoon as being that good - good protection, bad mana sink and bad stats. I think the format is strong enough that people wouldnt remove it even with worse protection - except then most everything else is removed. Jitte makes it better but most creatures are better with jitte and jitte is only 1 card out of 100 (and a tutor that likely would hit clamp). Also, they would likely want to remove jitte over stillmoon if given the choice.
I wasnt against sac outlets if they give you something worthwhile, but scry 1 is to me not really worth playing a 1/1 for in agro - if you were playing some kind of combo deck I could see the point, but not in this. You still got a ton other sac outlets left and you can afterall only sac a creature once. Also, removal that give your oppeont scry 1 isnt bad, just slightly weaker.
Rebels are better than you give them credit for, but I can see your point with not wanting to play too much white. That said, mirror entity is still a very nice overrun.
Bloodghast vs. Champion I think depends on how likely you think you are to always have something better to use 2 mana for than a 2/1 cant block. With bloodghast you might not get it back every turn, but you do not need to spend mana on it after the first time. I only use it in decks that care about mana efficency (as compared to card efficeny) though and I guess you might not be there yet.
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I must say that I'm still underwhelmed with the deck in it's current incarnation. It still has the problem of being stalled out by anything that can survive an alesha hit. It seems like you're absolutely relying on getting out a moon or geddon early enough in the game, but it seems like at that point you either won't have enough creatures out to win, or the removal to do anything about anything that can stop alesha, and if it goes any later than that you definitely won't be able to compete.
I must say that I'm still underwhelmed with the deck in it's current incarnation. It still has the problem of being stalled out by anything that can survive an alesha hit. It seems like you're absolutely relying on getting out a moon or geddon early enough in the game, but it seems like at that point you either won't have enough creatures out to win, or the removal to do anything about anything that can stop alesha, and if it goes any later than that you definitely won't be able to compete.
So it's aggro, but it doesn't aggro as well as Marath, Ezuri, Radha, or Lyzolda, but it can't midrange like Anafenza or Animar. I can't really see what it can do with these colours to compete then with these decks.
Sure it has a good Control match-up. So does that mean this remains a meta deck for Control metagames?
I must say that I'm still underwhelmed with the deck in it's current incarnation. It still has the problem of being stalled out by anything that can survive an alesha hit. It seems like you're absolutely relying on getting out a moon or geddon early enough in the game, but it seems like at that point you either won't have enough creatures out to win, or the removal to do anything about anything that can stop alesha, and if it goes any later than that you definitely won't be able to compete.
So it's aggro, but it doesn't aggro as well as Marath, Ezuri, Radha, or Lyzolda, but it can't midrange like Anafenza or Animar. I can't really see what it can do with these colours to compete then with these decks.
Sure it has a good Control match-up. So does that mean this remains a meta deck for Control metagames?
I was thinking yesterday about Alesha and how to make her win. She got really nice colors for stax actually. Did you think about making her into hard stax deck? Taxes, sacrifice, disruption, discards and so on with the possibility to return creatures from GY now and then.
I must say that I'm still underwhelmed with the deck in it's current incarnation. It still has the problem of being stalled out by anything that can survive an alesha hit. It seems like you're absolutely relying on getting out a moon or geddon early enough in the game, but it seems like at that point you either won't have enough creatures out to win, or the removal to do anything about anything that can stop alesha, and if it goes any later than that you definitely won't be able to compete.
So it's aggro, but it doesn't aggro as well as Marath, Ezuri, Radha, or Lyzolda, but it can't midrange like Anafenza or Animar. I can't really see what it can do with these colours to compete then with these decks.
Sure it has a good Control match-up. So does that mean this remains a meta deck for Control metagames?
I think there might be a place for it using creatures like master of cruelties and braids. Creatures with unimpressive stats that have more midrange mana costs, but who's effects are powerful enough that your opponent can't afford to ignore them. raving dead is another good example of what I'm talking about, as is mindstab thrull and bone dancer. Coupled with recusion engines like tortured existence, recurring nightmare, oversold cemetary, doomed necromancer, phyrexian reclamation, and to a much lesser extent enduring renewal and palace siege means that you won't care if alesha goes down, allowing you to attack with her and keep bringing back stuff that they don't want to deal with. Play it like an aggro reanimator where no choice they make in regards to combat or removal is a good one.
You don't need Arcane Lighthouse in this deck. You can play Crackling Doom, which is surprisingly strong, for having an out to hexproof and protection. As for your mana base, who says you can't play 6 basics AND Blood Moon? Your deck is base red and your general only requires red mana. If you resolve turn 3 blood moon against non-red two and three color decks, they pretty much always lose right there. It seems worth it to me. Stillmoon Cavalier, Fire Imp, Rakdos Shred-freak, and Torch Fiend all seem lacking. I'd rather see Kiki Jiki, Ravenous Baboons, Herald of Leshrac, and Bloodghast.
Thoughts on Cerodon Yearling or Ash Zealot as far as the small aggressive hasty creatures go? I like Rakdos Shred-Freak, but think it might not be unreasonable to consider other options. Slith Firewalker is another possibility, though it doesn't come out with 2 power. Also, Grenzo seems like a reasonable back-up plan main-deck. It also kinda fits in with the intelligent-seeming comment:
I think there might be a place for it using creatures like master of cruelties and braids. Creatures with unimpressive stats that have more midrange mana costs, but who's effects are powerful enough that your opponent can't afford to ignore them.
I've been poking around at how to make Alesha work as well. I've focused a bit more on "value" creatures that can be repeatedly sacrificed and reanimated with Alesha to abuse strong ETB effects. I haven't put together a full-fledged list, but I would take the cards below and augment them with basically a pile of W/B/R goodstuff that I think would be effective.
Problem of course is that Alesha is not that effective at being able to reuse her ability... but you are in W/B/R, which is the absolute best color combination for dealing with opposing creatures. If the rest of the deck is heavy on burn/removal, it might work. She's still vulnerable to removal, though. I'm not sure Alesha is ever going to be particularly viable as a result.
Problem of course is that Alesha is not that effective at being able to reuse her ability... but you are in W/B/R, which is the absolute best color combination for dealing with opposing creatures. If the rest of the deck is heavy on burn/removal, it might work. She's still vulnerable to removal, though. I'm not sure Alesha is ever going to be particularly viable as a result.
I'm beginning to draw similar conclusions. Alesha needs to work midrange, but Mardu is not a midrange colour combination. Maybe we need to cut the W completely. That gives Ruination over 'Geddon, two Moons and a Price...no, this still leaves us needing to resolve Moon to win. And we still can't beat an X/4.
Problem of course is that Alesha is not that effective at being able to reuse her ability... but you are in W/B/R, which is the absolute best color combination for dealing with opposing creatures. If the rest of the deck is heavy on burn/removal, it might work. She's still vulnerable to removal, though. I'm not sure Alesha is ever going to be particularly viable as a result.
I'm beginning to draw similar conclusions. Alesha needs to work midrange, but Mardu is not a midrange colour combination. Maybe we need to cut the W completely. That gives Ruination over 'Geddon, two Moons and a Price...no, this still leaves us needing to resolve Moon to win. And we still can't beat an X/4.
I sitll think that there's potential for a different kind of midrange. One that focuses on abilities of the creatures rather than the bodies. I'll throw up a list in the next day or so.
Some things I've figured out from light testing:
1. deathtouch is amazing in this deck. being able to trade your smaller guys that recur for their bigger guys is amazing, and lets you dictate combat a lot, which is what this deck loves to do. basilisk collar pretty consistently pulls it's weight. Alesha also extra loves deathtouch.
2. alesha LOVES having 4 power. the difference between 3 and 4 is like night and day. I added sorin, lord of innistrad, but sorin, solemn visitor is also basically the same thing, but it's a little more robust even if the ability doesn't interact as nicely as the emblem. I think this is a matter of preference. it should be noted that generator servant lets you turn 4 sorin and resurrect servant, swinging for 3, which is pretty sweet.
3. This deck is all about giving your opponents tough choices in combat and with removal. every creature in here is one that they either can't afford to keep alive, one that doesn't care if it dies. This, coupled with a bit of removal, should be enough to make your opponents squirm. That said, expect your guys to not be trading unless you have archetype out or they're equipped with the collar. However, this leads into 4.
4. treat your guys as though they are expendable, because they are. between alesha, oversold, recurring nightmare, and reclamation (plus a myriad of tutors) you have lots and lots of ways to get your dudes back. They probably don't.
5. breakthrough the line does serious work, especially when coupled with master of cruelties and raving dead. it allows you to sneak in lots of damage. bit of a nonbo with sorin though.
6. mentor of the meek and grenzo are machines in this deck. They get so many cards out it's not even funny.thought
7. the one time I've gotten it up and going, sunforger is stupidly strong. the ability to tutor answers out at instant speed is kind of good. That said, I'm not sure if I want to keep it because it forces subpar card choices (utter end -> vindicate) or add more stuff to it.
8. I think this deck wants more creatures, but I'm not sure what to take out.
I really think Alesha holds a lot of potential but I believe that can only be accomplished in an disruptive shell. I happen to think that Mardu can be quite midrange in an adequate setting. In order to succeed at that though, the deck would have to abandon the low-cost-only creatures, focusing more on grinding value throughout mid-turns instead of gunning early.
I get that some people are very accustomed to Mardu aggressiveness and all, but I don't think this is where you want to be with Alesha. At least not when you consider the other top commanders that usually appears in tournaments. It's quite difficult to pressure control consistently with low impact creatures and you'd have a hard time dealing with GX builds. Alesha has a unique ability in that it provides CA with immediate board impact. It screens midrange actually.
The early hand disruption and various removals spells which Mardu has access to are quite no-brainers, so it's all dependent on what creatures you're running. They need to present problems for control opponents as well as being somehow on pair with GX strategies. Lucky for us the same answer applies to both questions: resilience.
Hound of Griselbrand is fantatisc coming after a disrupt spell that got rid of a piece of removal. Tajic, Blade of the Legion cares only about Swords to Plowshares. Flesh Carver and Blade Splicer are quite effective as road-blockers or as annoying critters for control to deal with. Lieutenant Kirtar can be insanely abusable along with Alesha. Filling the graveyard with so many discard spells and removals should be normally easy, add in Faithless Looting and Tormenting Voice and Fledgling Dragon becomes Shivan real quickly. Speaking of Tormenting Voice, I was able to pitch on turn 4 a Blinding Angel to the graveyard off of it only to smash with Alesha and catch my opponent completely off guard. The beauty of these guys is that they constantly present problems to your opponents in that they can eventually kill them, but then Alesha just brings them back, if they kill Alesha, these guys continue to do their thing.
I also like Blazing Specter and Needle Specter quite a lot here. The first is just value on the spot against midrange and demands an immediate answer from the control opponent, while the second, albeit slower, threatens to obliterate one's hand when holding any piece of equipment. Which brings me to another point.
I believe equipments are very important tools in enabling Alesha to push through opposing defenses and highly recommend a Sunforger package. It's just a excruciating task to constantly be handling Doran or Anafenza. The latter even blanks our commanders ability. Sunforge allows us to never consume our resources and continually have ways to remove these pesky Abzans.
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad and Elspeth, Knight-Errant are also amazing cards in any match-up as they provide inevitability in form of tokens and reach in form of pumping. Consider this: Any piece of disruption on turn 2 taking out a removal from the opponent's hand, turn 3 Needle Specter followed by turn 4 Elspeth, Knight-Errant pumping the Specter and clearing 4 more cards out of your opponent's hands. Even if you wore on the draw and already experiencing some pressure from the other side of the board, chances are your sole piece of removal in your hand will already do you the trick.
I just played another few games. Liliana is ok, but I'm not sure if she's better than elspeth or either sorin despite being cheaper. The mutual discard is a nice trick, and being able to remove a blocker is good, but elspeth does something very similar by giving evasion, and early on there's not much that can survive a 4 power alesha anyways. mindclaw shaman has been kind of hit or miss for me. I've whiffed twice with him now, but the one time I haven't he's been devastating. I'd like to find a spot for tormenting voice as well. Sunforger is pretty huge but I'm a bit concerned it's a touch too slow though. On a similar note, since I'll be keeping sunforger in for the time being, I wonder if fire covenant is the best "sweeper" this deck can get. the only real options that can be gotten by sunforger are spontaneous combustion and maybe something crazy like vengeful dreams? speaking of craziness in the sunforger package, what about wild ricochet? I feel like that might be too gimmicky though. At any rate, equipment with unconventional midrange creatures that can be recurred is definitely the way to go with this deck. The deck is also very mana hungry so I'm a bit uncertain about hokori without a free sac outlet to abuse him with. I still have yet to play him though so we'll see.
@Swookums - Have you tried Mizzium Mortars? I know you can't access it via Sunforger but it can be quiet good as an one-sided sweeper. If we assume the midrange/control role against faster decks, getting to 6 lands shouldn't be that much of a problem considering our slew of disrupt.
I think there is potential for Alesha, but you really need to make sure that you your creatures are either disruption or insane threats. I also think the deck should not focus on Alesha's ability too much (e.g. Limiting yourself to mostly 2 power creatures) but also play some of the best creatures in the color such as hero of bladehold.
I think there is potential for Alesha, but you really need to make sure that you your creatures are either disruption or insane threats. I also think the deck should not focus on Alesha's ability too much (e.g. Limiting yourself to mostly 2 power creatures) but also play some of the best creatures in the color such as hero of bladehold.
I don't really see many situations in which it is better aside from as a sunforger target and with perhaps an easier mana cost. At least sulfurous blast is cast able without having a creature on the board, which seems like the time when thes cards are most advantageous to cast.
Perhaps comeuppance is the answer for the sweeper? it is a bit more reactive than is ideal, but it shuts down things like token hordes and hexproof critters pretty well, and there is more than enough spot removal to deal with other troublesome creatures. Plus an emergency fog is always nice. I'm trying to think of common creatures that this wouldn't get that something like sulfurous blast or spontaneous combustion would.
Testing has lead me away from the heavy "2 power matters" thing and more into a midrange deck. The control matchup was already strong, I just felt like i was losing to good aggro disruption builds and good aggro tempo. I think the deck has potential but all the builds i've tried have felt lacking.
Testing has lead me away from the heavy "2 power matters" thing and more into a midrange deck. The control matchup was already strong, I just felt like i was losing to good aggro disruption builds and good aggro tempo. I think the deck has potential but all the builds i've tried have felt lacking.
Right. And if we're on the midrange plan, I think Zurgo is a stronger choice. I think this deck will be better suited to Tiny Leaders.
1 Entomb
1 Faithless Looting
1 Gamble
1 Dark Confidant
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Pain Seer
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Phyrexian Rager
1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
1 Brain Maggot
1 Blood Moon
1 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Stingscourger
1 Reckless Reveler
1 Contamination
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Torch Fiend
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Dreadbore
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Sinkhole
1 Terminate
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Withered Wretch
1 Damnation
1 Dismember
1 Faceless Butcher
1 Fire Covenant
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Tangle Wire
1 Vindicate
1 Armageddon
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Skullclamp
1 Mask of Memory
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Fire Imp
1 Bitterblossom
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Master of Cruelties
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Figure of Destiny
1 Goblin Guide
1 Legion Loyalist
1 Viscera Seer
1 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
1 Rakdos Shred-Freak
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
1 Hellrider
1 Badlands
1 Plateau
1 Scrubland
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Graven Cairns
1 Shadowblood Ridge
1 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Mountain
2 Plains
3 Swamp
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Is it worth splashing there even white?
Instead of Swords, you could have Ashes to ashes, if you get Eq before Stonforge, he's dead draw. And vindicate is strong, thats true. I like the list, a lot. Also, the idea to play her as double color not triple.
But isnt boros better aggro than rakdos? If you really want aggro deck?
EDIT: oh yeah, forgot about armageddon..
Why did you remove tainted pact but didnt add more basics? It seems hard to get anything done with at most 4 non-red mana.
Stillmoon Cavalier seems a bit odd I think. I would think that you should be able to play good creatures and so on for a long time and hence do not really need the mana sink. I also think grenzo, dungeon warden is a better mana sink for you. Later ill suggest rebels, which are an even better mana sink.
Viscera Seer feels off right now. It is just a 1/1 for 1 that does not really do that much (you got 11 creatures you would ever want to sacrifice - except against removel - incl. the echo guys (who would typically auto sac anyway), magus of the moon (if you get color screwed), Brain maggot and Phyrexian Revoker (the latter two in case you want to change the targets) - hence a more fair count would be 6). It would be nice with the warden though.
Have you considered bloodghast? Alot of your cards likes to sac creatures and it is always nice with skullclamp. It also makes Entomb slightly better (I suspect that you typically fetching master of cruelties though)
Your creatures are typically small because of your commander, so mirror entity seems like it would be able to do a lot of damage easily.
If you add mirror entity you could also consider a mini-rebel suite - best mana sink ever. You need just a few rebels and they are quite deal or die with mirror entity, i.e. I have quite a few games like this: Play a 2 mana rebel fetcher turn 2 (there are a few to choose between - the exact one does not matter), fetch Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero turn 4, fetch mirror entity and Ramosian Sergeant turn 5, hit for 30 turn 6. Note 6 is quite slow, but this is a quite controlish situration (you could easily use one more turn to destroy whatever you oppeont is doing), used one card (so is in no way a dream hand and is easy to do when rebuilding - where it takes 3 turns to kill), and you do not actually look dangerous (the first time you do this to an oppeont anyway) - hence he might be ramping or playing other things that do not matter - before the end of your oppeonts last turn. I typically play the named rebels and 2 2 drop fetchers - there are quite a few to choose between - but more 2 drops is not bad either.
- Ashes is sorcery and three mana. Swords is instant and one mana. There really isn't a comparison to make. Between Plowshares, Stoneforge, 'Geddon, and Vindicate, I feel these four are "uncuttable".
- Going Rakdos or Boros is personal preference, I feel. I'm a Rakdos guy (and going Boros takes out a lot of your draw such as Bob, Rager, & Seer as well as Liliana, Wretch, Sinkhole, and Hexmage). Ultimately, the basis for B is so much stronger here than the basis for W.
- Council's is good, but it's WW. That's not a good idea in a deck that is only splashing W. Downfall and Vindicate do so much more than hit creatures, they keep your options open. Vindicate especially because you can curve Sinkhole into that and put a lot of players on tilt. Downfall because, killing planeswalkers at instant speed can't be understated. I don't mind three cmc spot removal if it's an instant and has options.
I did add more basics. There's seven now. that number was eight until I swapped a Plains for Flagstones since, well that's an obvious choice. I also added more BR duals specifically, although one could conceivably slice the filter and signet land for another pair of basics?.
Stillmoon is still good because of it's protections. Stillmoon + a Jitte is fearsome indeed.
Sac outlets are value man. If we want to sac or not, it still makes our opponent's removal bad. Saying they "don't feel right" and then going into a discussion why I should add more white cards and play rebels is the definition of "doesn't feel right".
If I wanted Bloodghast, I'd play Bloodsoaked Champion first.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I do not really think that 3 mana is good for removal in agro if it can not go for the head. I cant remember ever seeing anyone wanting to do that. Have you considered char? It should kill most creatures and walkers you meet but can also give you a bit more reach. It also got a easier mana cost.
I overlooked the addiontal swamp. Have you considered removing the basic mountains? Bloodmoon after all gives you all the mountains you need. It could be annoying against back to basics, but that depends on how often people play that in your meta.
I dont really view stillmoon as being that good - good protection, bad mana sink and bad stats. I think the format is strong enough that people wouldnt remove it even with worse protection - except then most everything else is removed. Jitte makes it better but most creatures are better with jitte and jitte is only 1 card out of 100 (and a tutor that likely would hit clamp). Also, they would likely want to remove jitte over stillmoon if given the choice.
I wasnt against sac outlets if they give you something worthwhile, but scry 1 is to me not really worth playing a 1/1 for in agro - if you were playing some kind of combo deck I could see the point, but not in this. You still got a ton other sac outlets left and you can afterall only sac a creature once. Also, removal that give your oppeont scry 1 isnt bad, just slightly weaker.
Rebels are better than you give them credit for, but I can see your point with not wanting to play too much white. That said, mirror entity is still a very nice overrun.
Bloodghast vs. Champion I think depends on how likely you think you are to always have something better to use 2 mana for than a 2/1 cant block. With bloodghast you might not get it back every turn, but you do not need to spend mana on it after the first time. I only use it in decks that care about mana efficency (as compared to card efficeny) though and I guess you might not be there yet.
So it's aggro, but it doesn't aggro as well as Marath, Ezuri, Radha, or Lyzolda, but it can't midrange like Anafenza or Animar. I can't really see what it can do with these colours to compete then with these decks.
Sure it has a good Control match-up. So does that mean this remains a meta deck for Control metagames?
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I was thinking yesterday about Alesha and how to make her win. She got really nice colors for stax actually. Did you think about making her into hard stax deck? Taxes, sacrifice, disruption, discards and so on with the possibility to return creatures from GY now and then.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I think there might be a place for it using creatures like master of cruelties and braids. Creatures with unimpressive stats that have more midrange mana costs, but who's effects are powerful enough that your opponent can't afford to ignore them. raving dead is another good example of what I'm talking about, as is mindstab thrull and bone dancer. Coupled with recusion engines like tortured existence, recurring nightmare, oversold cemetary, doomed necromancer, phyrexian reclamation, and to a much lesser extent enduring renewal and palace siege means that you won't care if alesha goes down, allowing you to attack with her and keep bringing back stuff that they don't want to deal with. Play it like an aggro reanimator where no choice they make in regards to combat or removal is a good one.
Problem of course is that Alesha is not that effective at being able to reuse her ability... but you are in W/B/R, which is the absolute best color combination for dealing with opposing creatures. If the rest of the deck is heavy on burn/removal, it might work. She's still vulnerable to removal, though. I'm not sure Alesha is ever going to be particularly viable as a result.
1 Alesha, Who Smiles at Death
Creatures (27)
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Mardu Woe-Reaper
1 Thoughtpicker Witch
1 Viscera Seer
1 Corrupt Court Official
1 Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
1 Knight of the White Orchid
1 Ravenous Rats
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Blade Splicer
1 Bone Shredder
1 Fire Imp
1 Ghitu Slinger
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Phyrexian Rager
1 Sin Collector
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Goblin Settler
1 Kor Cartographer
1 Magus of the Disk
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Nekrataal
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Contamination
1 Attrition
Artifacts (1)
1 Skullclamp
Spells (3)
1 Innocent Blood
1 Bone Splinters
1 Cabal Therapy
I'm beginning to draw similar conclusions. Alesha needs to work midrange, but Mardu is not a midrange colour combination. Maybe we need to cut the W completely. That gives Ruination over 'Geddon, two Moons and a Price...no, this still leaves us needing to resolve Moon to win. And we still can't beat an X/4.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I sitll think that there's potential for a different kind of midrange. One that focuses on abilities of the creatures rather than the bodies. I'll throw up a list in the next day or so.
37 land
1 chrome mox
1 mox diamond
1 entomb
1 faithless looting
1 gamble
1 night's whisper
1 diabolic intent
1 demonic tutor
1 enlightened tutor
1 swords to plowshares
1 path to exile
1 boros charm
1 terminate
1 fire covenant
1 wrecking ball
1 wear/tear
1 orim's thunder
1 lightning bolt
1 utter end
1 thoughtseize
1 sunforger
1 skullclamp
1 mask of memories
1 umezawa's jitte
1 basilisk collar
1 lilliana of the veil
1 sorin, lord of innistrad
1 oversold cemetary
1 recurring nightmare
1 contamination
1 phyrexian reclamation
1 break through the line
1 mirran crusader
1 tidehollow sculler
1 mesmeric fiend
1 braids, cabal minion
1 hokori, dust drinker
1 mother of runes
1 dark confidant
1 imperial recruiter
1 magus of the moon
1 fiend hunter
1 master of cruelties
1 vampire hexmage
1 stoneforge mystic
1 bone shredder
1 mindclaw shaman
1 disciple of bolas
1 dauthi mindripper
1 archetype of finality
1 falkenrath marauders
1 flesh carver
1 blind zealot
1 generator servant
1 pack rat
1 thought gorger
1 raving dead
1 grenzo, dungeon warden
1 duplicant
1 brain maggot
1 mentor of the meek
Some things I've figured out from light testing:
1. deathtouch is amazing in this deck. being able to trade your smaller guys that recur for their bigger guys is amazing, and lets you dictate combat a lot, which is what this deck loves to do. basilisk collar pretty consistently pulls it's weight. Alesha also extra loves deathtouch.
2. alesha LOVES having 4 power. the difference between 3 and 4 is like night and day. I added sorin, lord of innistrad, but sorin, solemn visitor is also basically the same thing, but it's a little more robust even if the ability doesn't interact as nicely as the emblem. I think this is a matter of preference. it should be noted that generator servant lets you turn 4 sorin and resurrect servant, swinging for 3, which is pretty sweet.
3. This deck is all about giving your opponents tough choices in combat and with removal. every creature in here is one that they either can't afford to keep alive, one that doesn't care if it dies. This, coupled with a bit of removal, should be enough to make your opponents squirm. That said, expect your guys to not be trading unless you have archetype out or they're equipped with the collar. However, this leads into 4.
4. treat your guys as though they are expendable, because they are. between alesha, oversold, recurring nightmare, and reclamation (plus a myriad of tutors) you have lots and lots of ways to get your dudes back. They probably don't.
5. breakthrough the line does serious work, especially when coupled with master of cruelties and raving dead. it allows you to sneak in lots of damage. bit of a nonbo with sorin though.
6. mentor of the meek and grenzo are machines in this deck. They get so many cards out it's not even funny.thought
7. the one time I've gotten it up and going, sunforger is stupidly strong. the ability to tutor answers out at instant speed is kind of good. That said, I'm not sure if I want to keep it because it forces subpar card choices (utter end -> vindicate) or add more stuff to it.
8. I think this deck wants more creatures, but I'm not sure what to take out.
here is a list of things I want to put in, and will be testing:
herald of leshrac
stingscourger
either akrasan squire or duty-bound dead (seriously, alesha loves 4 power early on, plus synergizes nicely with bringing stuff back)
auger of skulls
bloodsoaked champion
champion of the parish and human tribal could be fun.
markov blademaster (over falkenrath marauder most likely)
hero of bladehold
hellrider
brutal hordechief
ogre battledriver
goblin wardriver
leonin relic warder
hypnotic specter
withered wretch
aven mindcensor
dragonmaster outcast
hound of griselbrand
I get that some people are very accustomed to Mardu aggressiveness and all, but I don't think this is where you want to be with Alesha. At least not when you consider the other top commanders that usually appears in tournaments. It's quite difficult to pressure control consistently with low impact creatures and you'd have a hard time dealing with GX builds. Alesha has a unique ability in that it provides CA with immediate board impact. It screens midrange actually.
The early hand disruption and various removals spells which Mardu has access to are quite no-brainers, so it's all dependent on what creatures you're running. They need to present problems for control opponents as well as being somehow on pair with GX strategies. Lucky for us the same answer applies to both questions: resilience.
Hound of Griselbrand is fantatisc coming after a disrupt spell that got rid of a piece of removal. Tajic, Blade of the Legion cares only about Swords to Plowshares. Flesh Carver and Blade Splicer are quite effective as road-blockers or as annoying critters for control to deal with. Lieutenant Kirtar can be insanely abusable along with Alesha. Filling the graveyard with so many discard spells and removals should be normally easy, add in Faithless Looting and Tormenting Voice and Fledgling Dragon becomes Shivan real quickly. Speaking of Tormenting Voice, I was able to pitch on turn 4 a Blinding Angel to the graveyard off of it only to smash with Alesha and catch my opponent completely off guard. The beauty of these guys is that they constantly present problems to your opponents in that they can eventually kill them, but then Alesha just brings them back, if they kill Alesha, these guys continue to do their thing.
I also like Blazing Specter and Needle Specter quite a lot here. The first is just value on the spot against midrange and demands an immediate answer from the control opponent, while the second, albeit slower, threatens to obliterate one's hand when holding any piece of equipment. Which brings me to another point.
I believe equipments are very important tools in enabling Alesha to push through opposing defenses and highly recommend a Sunforger package. It's just a excruciating task to constantly be handling Doran or Anafenza. The latter even blanks our commanders ability. Sunforge allows us to never consume our resources and continually have ways to remove these pesky Abzans.
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad and Elspeth, Knight-Errant are also amazing cards in any match-up as they provide inevitability in form of tokens and reach in form of pumping. Consider this: Any piece of disruption on turn 2 taking out a removal from the opponent's hand, turn 3 Needle Specter followed by turn 4 Elspeth, Knight-Errant pumping the Specter and clearing 4 more cards out of your opponent's hands. Even if you wore on the draw and already experiencing some pressure from the other side of the board, chances are your sole piece of removal in your hand will already do you the trick.
BTW as a sunforger sweeper Sulfurous Blast and wing shards are the best we can get.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
I'd argue Spontaneous Combustion is better than either, especially in that role.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I don't really see many situations in which it is better aside from as a sunforger target and with perhaps an easier mana cost. At least sulfurous blast is cast able without having a creature on the board, which seems like the time when thes cards are most advantageous to cast.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Right. And if we're on the midrange plan, I think Zurgo is a stronger choice. I think this deck will be better suited to Tiny Leaders.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.