There's a lot we can try to do, but must remember not to dilute the threat density of the deck because then control becomes unbeatable. One of the ways to do that is adding disruptive creatures to the mix. Lodestone Golem is a must have now, just like Thought-Knot Seer, just like the creatures I mentioned above. Keldon Firebombers could be a way to contain ramp decks. Steel Hellkite feels even more important because it doubles-down as swarm removal. Lodestone Myr is a great blocker too. I feel Duplicant is too slow now, but Scuttling Doom Engine could be very aggressive.
Oh, and there's a gem I didn't see anyone talking about: Smoke. That helps a lot against swarms and for me feels like a great add if your meta is not dominated by Voltron Geist/Jenara.
EDIT: oh, I'd find room for Trash for Treasure again. Could speed things up against aggro. Using Daretti as a way to discard Wurmcoil, even if Daretti dies, to reanimate with this could be a game changing play.
Also, MAYBE there's a case to add Su-Chi. It's a great body, and can ramp fast into mass removal, Karn and Ugin.
I play daretti with more beaters, and I have very good results, sure, I have the same problems like everybody here, in my meta Keranos, God of Storms, Wydwen, the Biting Gale, Vendilion Clique, Gaddock Teeg, but I like to play with more creatures, and I think that with 20 life, this could be good.
My win con. are Sundering Titan, Myr BattlesphereWurmcoil Engine that is a must, everybody have this 3, but beside that I also play Scuttling Doom Engine, its very good against little creatures and planeswalker, Bosh, Iron Golem its incredible, believe me he was trample,its 6/7, and you just need to use his ability to win the game, and I won a lot of games because of him, hitting 6 and sac for 8 damage, my last beater is Soul of New Phyrexia,this card is here just because its 6/6 trample, but it can be substituted to Steel Hellkite, Batterskull the new Combustible Gearhulk seems great.
I'd say Welding Sparks would be my 3 mana removal of choice. I believe Scuttling Doom Engine and Soul of New Phyrexia should become Batterskull and Steel Hellkite, and I love Bosh's suggestion. I don't know if he's better than Combustible Gearhulk though...
Painter/Grindstone is an obvious inclusion and a must have in the deck. It also makes stuff like Tamiyo's Journal and Inventor's Fair better. Painter's Servant also works pretty well with our maindeck RED/Pyro, so I believe it's, simply put, a must have.
If you want comments on the ban list announcement itself, I think it's laughable, like everything they've done this year.
Many folks in my meta play mono-colored decks (and who are not often have many basics in their decks)
As result i don't have Ruination and Magus of the Moon.
Big manacost Planeswalkers are removed becouse i rarely have time to play them against aggro.
(Also i don't have a copy of city of traitors, ensnaring bridge or crucible of worlds becouse it's too expensive >:< )
I'm so happy there are people that love this deck as much as I do. I never brewed a deck from the very beginning like I did with Daretti - there were no lists, no Top 8s, barely any discussion about the card in multiplayer forums when I first Top 8'ed with it. So I feel just like a proud father every time someone picks interest in the deck. Thanks, this is one of the reasons I gave so much thought to the Rashmi deck too. I love discussing DC strategies
That said, I'll not be playing Daretti for a while now. Mainly because I was too busy working for 2 months straight so I'm just now getting used to the 20 life meta. I'm still making changes to try and make Rashmi better atm, and right now just addicted to Vial/Kraum - I can't seem to stop wanting to play with the deck. Partner is such a cool mechanic, it got me hyped about the format again.
I'm not sure Daretti is all that bad. It just need to adapt strongly. I disagree it has bad matches against Titania or Anafenza - they're good matches for me, at least 60/40. I don't know about 20-life Geist, but it seems is gives up on many counters to pack more proactive creature removal. If that's the case, I feel the matchup is also more favorable than before. Zurgo is harder if you have a slightly off-tempo start, and I admit I never tested the Baby Jace matchup too much (I was the only Jace player in my meta).
I wonder how Daretti would shape up against Vial/Kraum or Saskia actually - I think poorly. But I don't think the deck can't be adapted. I feel Daretti is now, more than ever, a meta deck: you should adapt a lot of its slots based on your particular meta - just like Vintage Landstill. For example, playing stuff like Boil, Omen of Fire, Combust, Flame Slash, Shattering Spree, etc, could be great depending on the meta.
last few months have been hell arond here and my LGS's TO is being annoyingly sloppy, so we dont even have fnms anymore
i had to transfer to another store which holds duel fnms every other friday
so far ive been to 2 of those, usually 10~20 players from what i was told
i stopped with magic ever since my last post here and am slowly trying to catch up
played 1 day with daretti without really tuning it (i think i took both blue counters + mindslaver out and added bolt and some other stuff to the list)
the meta is not full Bellstriker like i thought it would become after the 20hp change
theres an old Sigarda, 2 or 3 zurgos, 1 mogis, 1 arcum dagsson, 2 titanias and some other decks
basically the tier decks are 1 zurgo and 1 titania because they have good and rich pilots, maing their decks extremely efficient and well played
about the deck:
i dont think its dead like we thought
it needs a major overhaul tho Filigree Familiar is god, batterskull is godder
i think the meta is extremely fast and even more comeptitive than before
and what i loved about the deck is that we could usually come back from most ***** and the deck was more lenient on our mistakes
now, every mistake we make gets us several more nails on our coffin (which is bad or a control deck i supose)
that said, i think trading post, while versatile, is slow as hell, as also is mindslaver (havent gotten my head around this one yet, because, you know, it LOCKS, but its very slow right now)
heart of kiran COULD be great.. but it has crew 3, we almost never have 3 power on the table unless its 6+
but since we need to change our metagame im thinking cards like Bottle Gnomes and cathodion and quicksmith genius could fit, so maybe heartof kiran could as well
maybe smuggler's copter is better than kiran cuz it helps us loot our big spells
what im really exited about aether revolt is the red enchant that lets us get stuff back to our hands and the new (arguably better) myr retrivier
this way we can keep recursing stuff like saccing low cost artifacts for Smokestax or saccing mind stone for the draw
silent arbiter seems ok-ish because it blocks most stuff.. but that sigarda reall scared me, we aint got nothing to remove her outside of obliterate and devastation..
maybe we should finally let go of the full orb lockdown and keep only 1 or 2 pieces
(id still keep winter orb, icy manipulator and some others)
depending on how much red we have to add, i dont see the spheres as being great
painters combo is a nice suggestion that you made and im trying to see if i can grab one for myself
guys, dont let daretti die, please
i know its holidays, but lets keep in touch !
Yeah, maybe Daretti is a good call, if adapted. I feel it's too slow against Vial (and Vial can easily kill Daretti without atacking). The problem is not even Witchbane Orb works in dealing with Vial, and he's not blue so REB/Pyro don't kill hill. I wonder if going full Sphere of Resistance can work for us.
I also think Trash for Treasure is more important now, to give speed to the deck.
The point with Heart of kiran is that you can remove loyality counter from darreti and use it as blocker or attacker.
The meta is quite different from what I did expect too: the tier decks are smasher(s) (blood moons are very good here) and titania. Partner decks are all good but they are very vulnerable to blood moons (unles its RW AkiriBruse)
yes, i get that. still id rather be ticking daretti up and try to ult with it than just attack with a 4/4 thopter (which would take 5 turns to deal 20 considering opp doesntdo ***** with it (a very long shot)
while it does look nice because it flies, so evasion counts
time will tell on this one, i suppose..
Yeah, maybe Daretti is a good call, if adapted. I feel it's too slow against Vial (and Vial can easily kill Daretti without atacking). The problem is not even Witchbane Orb works in dealing with Vial, and he's not blue so REB/Pyro don't kill hill. I wonder if going full Sphere of Resistance can work for us.
I also think Trash for Treasure is more important now, to give speed to the deck.
like i said on a previous post.. im not feeling the Sphere effetcs because you get hindered a lot by them too. its not like lode golem where you can still cast artifacts for the same cost
or its not like an stax/wire effect where theres only an illusion of "balance in ******* around the table"
recruiter seems nice because of the amount of dudes we prolly will be adding
and if vial is your main concern, we could always add up more bolts
I think HoK is good because it can protect darreti easily and kill oposing walkers. While I dont play Darreti (anymore) from the games I played getting to ultimate was almost impossible and usualy was not worth trying (it was better idea to reanimate somehing).
i agree with you, but now meta is slightly turning towards more creature-based decks
so if we add more kill spells like pyroclasm and bolt, togheter with some creatures like silent arbiter, filigree, squee, we could stave off those attackers and keep ticking daretti up, 2 at a time
The problem with Etched Champion is that it's not a good early blocker. Even with a turn 2 rock he won't have metalcraft turn 3. It could be very good once you get it active, but doesn't help against fast opponents. I'd rather play Filigree Familiar.
Arena of the Ancients seems cool. Although it helps nothing against Vial/Kraum.
Talisman is way too slow. 1 life per turn is nothing against Vial. I believe stuff like Lodestone, Trinisphere and Defense Grid are your best friends against their free spells. Wasteland and Moon effects are great too. Inferno Titan and Skysovereign are also cards that guarantee Vial won't stay on the table. I dunno, I'm spitballing since I haven't played the matchup yet.
Hum, a great card for Daretti. Generates C so you can play TKS and Reality Smasher, but can also generate R with ease. Great thing is that it's not useless without artifacts, so you can use it to play that rock turn 2.
Industrial Tower
Land
T: Add C to your mana pool.
T, pay 1 life: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Activate this ability only when you control an artifact.
Hum... I didn't think about that card with Daretti. It's really interesting, probably the most playable 3 mana rock in the deck. It works with tokens too, so Clue artifacts like Tamyio's Journal now can even produce mana. Cool.
I wonder if your version has any game at all against control, Moondust. Does it? I mean, You don't have many prison cards, are there aren't any cheap cards control doesn't want you to resolve.
That was my question though: what are your high impact cards against control? Other than mana disruption, I don't see anything control really wants to counter early game other than Defense Grid. That makes your Daretti very vulnerable to counters. The good thing my Daretti list had against control (in 30 life, I'm still working on a 20 life list, waiting for the whole spoilers to come out) is that is could play a high density threat every turn, until the control player ran out of counters for Daretti or some bomb like Smokestack that could reset the table.
Two interesting additions to our deck. Hope of Ghirapur seems an auto-inclusion, it's just awesome. Treasure Keeper seems to dispute a slot with cards like Solemn Simulacrum. It seems better to me, although not ramping hurts.
Two interesting additions to our deck. Hope of Ghirapur seems an auto-inclusion, it's just awesome. Treasure Keeper seems to dispute a slot with cards like Solemn Simulacrum. It seems better to me, although not ramping hurts.
im still struggling with time to thinker with 20hp list..
id include, from AER:
red expertise (?) freejam regent (depending onthe rest of the build) quicksmith rebel (this one might be good, but i didntlike the 4 cmc) heart of kiran might be worth the slot daredevil dragster could be what we need to keep pressuring opps life while still getting ahead on cards planar bridge, while expensive, gets us what we need.. id replace this with one big mana spell that i have, like prolly obliterate gonti's aether heart for whoever runs anything else with energy like aetherworks marvel
I think your other "for sure" cards are all spot on. From the others I'd consider Heart of Kiran and Planar Bridge. I don't like vehicles in the deck, they're to hard to crew. The only one's I'd consider are Heart because Daretti can crew it, and Smuggler's Copter because any creature can crew it an it's amazing. Also, there's a strong case to be made for Walking Ballista.
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There's a lot we can try to do, but must remember not to dilute the threat density of the deck because then control becomes unbeatable. One of the ways to do that is adding disruptive creatures to the mix. Lodestone Golem is a must have now, just like Thought-Knot Seer, just like the creatures I mentioned above. Keldon Firebombers could be a way to contain ramp decks. Steel Hellkite feels even more important because it doubles-down as swarm removal. Lodestone Myr is a great blocker too. I feel Duplicant is too slow now, but Scuttling Doom Engine could be very aggressive.
Oh, and there's a gem I didn't see anyone talking about: Smoke. That helps a lot against swarms and for me feels like a great add if your meta is not dominated by Voltron Geist/Jenara.
EDIT: oh, I'd find room for Trash for Treasure again. Could speed things up against aggro. Using Daretti as a way to discard Wurmcoil, even if Daretti dies, to reanimate with this could be a game changing play.
Also, MAYBE there's a case to add Su-Chi. It's a great body, and can ramp fast into mass removal, Karn and Ugin.
My win con. are Sundering Titan, Myr Battlesphere Wurmcoil Engine that is a must, everybody have this 3, but beside that I also play Scuttling Doom Engine, its very good against little creatures and planeswalker, Bosh, Iron Golem its incredible, believe me he was trample,its 6/7, and you just need to use his ability to win the game, and I won a lot of games because of him, hitting 6 and sac for 8 damage, my last beater is Soul of New Phyrexia,this card is here just because its 6/6 trample, but it can be substituted to Steel Hellkite, Batterskull the new Combustible Gearhulk seems great.
I also play All Is Dust and Lightning Bolt, but I think maybe one more removal spell could help, anyone here try Collective Defiance?
Yawgmoth’s Bargain is now legal.
Serra Ascendant is now legal.
Grindstone is now legal.
Necropotence is now legal.
Balanceis now legal.
20 life
no commander damage
and now there is "Leviathan - Commander" too
If you want comments on the ban list announcement itself, I think it's laughable, like everything they've done this year.
So, here it is my "I hate aggro 20hp":
23 Mountain
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Wasteland
1 Dwarven Ruins
1 Sandstone Needle
1 Buried Ruin
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Crystal Vein
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Blinkmoth Well
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Great Furnace
1 Maze of Ith
Creatures
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Combustible Gearhulk
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Inferno Titan
1 Goblin Welder
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
1 Lodestone Myr
1 Batterskull
1 Duplicant
1 Mind Stone
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Fractured Powerstone
1 Lotus Bloom
1 Thought Vessel
1 Fire Diamond
Artifacts
1 Static Orb
1 Trinisphere
1 Expedition Map
1 Tangle Wire
1 Defense Grid
1 Pithing Needle
1 Winter Orb
1 Cursed Totem
Utility spells
1 Gamble
1 Mizzix's Mastery
1 Trash for Treasure
1 Blood Moon
1 Scrap Mastery
1 Faithless Looting
Land destroy
1 Wildfire
1 Burning of Xinye
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Jokulhaups
1 Obliterate
1 Devastation
1 Impending Disaster
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Chaos Warp
1 Pyroclasm
1 Roast
1 Sudden Demise
1 Flame Slash
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Urza's Rage
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Pyroblast
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Seal of Fire
1 Dead/Gone
1 Whipflare
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Slagstorm
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Lightning Axe
Many folks in my meta play mono-colored decks (and who are not often have many basics in their decks)
As result i don't have Ruination and Magus of the Moon.
Big manacost Planeswalkers are removed becouse i rarely have time to play them against aggro.
(Also i don't have a copy of city of traitors, ensnaring bridge or crucible of worlds becouse it's too expensive >:< )
That said, I'll not be playing Daretti for a while now. Mainly because I was too busy working for 2 months straight so I'm just now getting used to the 20 life meta. I'm still making changes to try and make Rashmi better atm, and right now just addicted to Vial/Kraum - I can't seem to stop wanting to play with the deck. Partner is such a cool mechanic, it got me hyped about the format again.
I'm not sure Daretti is all that bad. It just need to adapt strongly. I disagree it has bad matches against Titania or Anafenza - they're good matches for me, at least 60/40. I don't know about 20-life Geist, but it seems is gives up on many counters to pack more proactive creature removal. If that's the case, I feel the matchup is also more favorable than before. Zurgo is harder if you have a slightly off-tempo start, and I admit I never tested the Baby Jace matchup too much (I was the only Jace player in my meta).
I wonder how Daretti would shape up against Vial/Kraum or Saskia actually - I think poorly. But I don't think the deck can't be adapted. I feel Daretti is now, more than ever, a meta deck: you should adapt a lot of its slots based on your particular meta - just like Vintage Landstill. For example, playing stuff like Boil, Omen of Fire, Combust, Flame Slash, Shattering Spree, etc, could be great depending on the meta.
Cards I would consider adding? Silent Arbiter, Painter's Servant/Grindstone, Trading Post, Batterskull, Sphere of Resistance/Thorn of Amethyst, Sunstone/Glacial Crevasses, Inferno Titan/Skysovereign, Karn, Silver Golem (it has a frigging fast clock) and creature removal in general.
I swear that if I have the time I'll test a 20-life version of the deck and post it here. But that'll be in december at the very least.
Heart of Kiran
last few months have been hell arond here and my LGS's TO is being annoyingly sloppy, so we dont even have fnms anymore
i had to transfer to another store which holds duel fnms every other friday
so far ive been to 2 of those, usually 10~20 players from what i was told
i stopped with magic ever since my last post here and am slowly trying to catch up
played 1 day with daretti without really tuning it (i think i took both blue counters + mindslaver out and added bolt and some other stuff to the list)
the meta is not full Bellstriker like i thought it would become after the 20hp change
theres an old Sigarda, 2 or 3 zurgos, 1 mogis, 1 arcum dagsson, 2 titanias and some other decks
basically the tier decks are 1 zurgo and 1 titania because they have good and rich pilots, maing their decks extremely efficient and well played
about the deck:
i dont think its dead like we thought
it needs a major overhaul tho
Filigree Familiar is god, batterskull is godder
i think the meta is extremely fast and even more comeptitive than before
and what i loved about the deck is that we could usually come back from most ***** and the deck was more lenient on our mistakes
now, every mistake we make gets us several more nails on our coffin (which is bad or a control deck i supose)
that said, i think trading post, while versatile, is slow as hell, as also is mindslaver (havent gotten my head around this one yet, because, you know, it LOCKS, but its very slow right now)
heart of kiran COULD be great.. but it has crew 3, we almost never have 3 power on the table unless its 6+
but since we need to change our metagame im thinking cards like Bottle Gnomes and cathodion and quicksmith genius could fit, so maybe heartof kiran could as well
maybe smuggler's copter is better than kiran cuz it helps us loot our big spells
what im really exited about aether revolt is the red enchant that lets us get stuff back to our hands and the new (arguably better) myr retrivier
this way we can keep recursing stuff like saccing low cost artifacts for Smokestax or saccing mind stone for the draw
silent arbiter seems ok-ish because it blocks most stuff.. but that sigarda reall scared me, we aint got nothing to remove her outside of obliterate and devastation..
maybe we should finally let go of the full orb lockdown and keep only 1 or 2 pieces
(id still keep winter orb, icy manipulator and some others)
depending on how much red we have to add, i dont see the spheres as being great
painters combo is a nice suggestion that you made and im trying to see if i can grab one for myself
guys, dont let daretti die, please
i know its holidays, but lets keep in touch !
I also think Trash for Treasure is more important now, to give speed to the deck.
Maybe we can play a few more creatures, so Smuggler's Copter becomes viable to play. Imperial Recruiter seems extra good now, since he can fetch Silent Arbiter, Magus of the Moon, Filigree Familiar, etc.
yes, i get that. still id rather be ticking daretti up and try to ult with it than just attack with a 4/4 thopter (which would take 5 turns to deal 20 considering opp doesntdo ***** with it (a very long shot)
while it does look nice because it flies, so evasion counts
time will tell on this one, i suppose..
like i said on a previous post.. im not feeling the Sphere effetcs because you get hindered a lot by them too. its not like lode golem where you can still cast artifacts for the same cost
or its not like an stax/wire effect where theres only an illusion of "balance in ******* around the table"
recruiter seems nice because of the amount of dudes we prolly will be adding
and if vial is your main concern, we could always add up more bolts
i agree with you, but now meta is slightly turning towards more creature-based decks
so if we add more kill spells like pyroclasm and bolt, togheter with some creatures like silent arbiter, filigree, squee, we could stave off those attackers and keep ticking daretti up, 2 at a time
Arena of the Ancients seems cool. Although it helps nothing against Vial/Kraum.
Industrial Tower
Land
T: Add C to your mana pool.
T, pay 1 life: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Activate this ability only when you control an artifact.
http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/inspirationalmonuments.html
Two interesting additions to our deck. Hope of Ghirapur seems an auto-inclusion, it's just awesome. Treasure Keeper seems to dispute a slot with cards like Solemn Simulacrum. It seems better to me, although not ramping hurts.
im still struggling with time to thinker with 20hp list..
id include, from AER:
hope of ghirapur for sure
inspiring sanctuary for sure
scrap trawler for sure
treasure keeper for sure
pias revolution for sure
red expertise (?)
freejam regent (depending onthe rest of the build)
quicksmith rebel (this one might be good, but i didntlike the 4 cmc)
heart of kiran might be worth the slot
daredevil dragster could be what we need to keep pressuring opps life while still getting ahead on cards
planar bridge, while expensive, gets us what we need.. id replace this with one big mana spell that i have, like prolly obliterate
gonti's aether heart for whoever runs anything else with energy like aetherworks marvel
do want that sphere of resistance masterpiece tho
I think your other "for sure" cards are all spot on. From the others I'd consider Heart of Kiran and Planar Bridge. I don't like vehicles in the deck, they're to hard to crew. The only one's I'd consider are Heart because Daretti can crew it, and Smuggler's Copter because any creature can crew it an it's amazing. Also, there's a strong case to be made for Walking Ballista.