With Marath now on the watch list I've been thinking a lot about my next commander. But I love this deck so much. To that end I have been wondering about replacing Marath with Gahiji, Honored One and keeping the deck mostly the same with some tweaks to capitalize more on Gahiji's strengths and weaknesses.
What do you guys think about Gahiji as a replacement? Or am I going to be further ahead jumping ship to another color identity altogether.
What are your plans for the future once we most likely can't use Marath as our commander any more?
I'm not sold on Imperial Recruiter, because I don't feel like spending that much money on a card I would only play in one particular deck
Playing on very few commanders is not a reason not to like a card. You can play Recruiter on Animar and Xenagos as well or any commander that wants to combo out with twin.
That being said Recruiter is one of the best cards to have. lt is a cmc3 tutor that gets a lot of things and can be reanimated or copied for extra value. Also it feeds pod very well.
Not having one won't hurt that much but it really is an amazing card on Marath.
Asking as someone who doesn't want to ban any more generals, do you Marath players feel like he'll be banned? There use to be a Marath player in our local meta but he hasn't been seen much since the cradle ban so it's hard for me to tell if he is worth getting banned.
Not having one won't hurt that much but it really is an amazing card on Marath.
That was more of a troll comment. I know Recruiter is super good in Marath, but if I'm willing to invest that much money into one card, I'd rather buy Underground Sea for my legacy deck...
And on to the bannings, I think blue decks are in such commanding position right now, that banning more green stuff is just nonsence.
Not having one won't hurt that much but it really is an amazing card on Marath.
That was more of a troll comment. I know Recruiter is super good in Marath, but if I'm willing to invest that much money into one card, I'd rather buy Underground Sea for my legacy deck...
And on to the bannings, I think blue decks are in such commanding position right now, that banning more green stuff is just nonsence.
Haven't you heard that marath is what makes blue strong because it pushes away aggro from the format? The best way to nerf blue control is to ban Marath.
I don't think so, Marath is only good against aggro with no removal, which is pretty much only Elves...
I don't quite agree with this statement eithor. Every (non-blue) deck that wants to win by turning creatures sideways, all in or not, has a rough time against Marath. Removal isn't a great answer to Marath as he just makes a creature token in responce, fizzling your removal spell, then comes back stronger later. Even decks like azban have a tough time competing against him because the marath player will be the only one with mana dorks left on the table. That creates a huge advantage for the Marath player. Combo and control are really the only decks that can reliably defeat Marath. At least that's my experience playing against it, I can't speak for everyone.
Edit: Having said all that I just want to say I'm not certain Marath should have been banned eithor. He wasn't exactly dominating the format. I'm glad Ooze is gone because Sidisi was everywhere and an even harder matchup for (non blue) creature decks.
I don't think so, Marath is only good against aggro with no removal, which is pretty much only Elves...
Edit: Having said all that I just want to say I'm not certain Marath should have been banned eithor. He wasn't exactly dominating the format. I'm glad Ooze is gone because Sidisi was everywhere and an even harder matchup for (non blue) creature decks.
I think the "rule" (I put quotes because I know it's not set in stone, rather the collective sentiments of the decision-makers and some players) is that a deck's dominance/prominence in a format is no the sole dictating factor in the decision to ban or not ban a certain card. In my opinion, having played Marath all the way from a casual-ish elfball version years ago up to a fine-tuned iteration a couple months ago, Marath just wrecked many decks that played with creatures less than 3 toughness. These were typically aggro/midrange decks, and yes, blue/control matchups (e.g. flip Jace) were not necessarily easy or in our favor, but most matchups could be won even if not likely a large percentage of the times.
Regardless of whether or not what I just said is really true, putting three very different and very versatile abilities on an aggressively costed creature is a pretty bad idea from a design standpoint. If Marath costs 5 do you think he's banned now? Probably not (I'll concede a "maybe"). Just like JtMS: four good abilities at a relatively low cost is almost virtual card advantage and we all know what wins games...
l've played Marath, on and off, for almost 3 years and l have enough experience with the deck to present an educated argument on this subject.
Marath competes with Jenara and GWB generals as midrange decks available and, lMO, he was the best midrange option available to players.
As all midrange deck in formats that support a midrange strategy, it trumped most aggressive strategies by going bigger, and was able to face some control strategies because of the combos that were played - but due to his colors it suffered against some strategies only available on Duel Commander, like commanders that could exploit cards such as Devastation and Jokulhaups, and reanimation strategies that dodged Marath's few cards that could interact with the graveyard.
Marath's midrange was strongest against creatures, while GWB and Jenara played better against control. That's why it was best when Yisan was on the format, and it was bad when Oloro was domination the field. lt was also pretty bad against Animar, a very strong and heavily played general before the mulligan change, but it also too a hit when it happened.
lt was oppressive lF you want to push a more aggressive meta. l never lost with it (never) when playing against Mono-W - as they could not interact well with our combos - and had nearly a 90% win-rate against Zurgo. On the other hand l had a very poor win-rate against URx generals and even Daretti felt a little like a coin toss.
The moment to ban Marath was between 6 months and an year ago, when Gaea's Cradle was around and Blue was ***** because of Yisan. That's when he was a real problem for the game. Now, the only real reason to outright ban Marath is to fabricate a meta. Birthing Pod and Survival of the fittest were the real engine of the deck and Marath leaned a lot on those cards to be "oppressive" - but those cards are problems with all generals. They were much better options to get the axe at this moment.
It's been quite some time but I decided to come back to this deck, as a way to fight the Edgars that keep popping up and the decks that appeared to fight him. Even though we lost quite a lot with the MTGO banlist, mainly survival, the bannings of top-of-the-deck and demonic tutor, theoretically, will make it harder to fight continuous board presences with wraths, and Marath can rebuild from a single wrath very quickly.
I don't have many of the cards for this deck anymore but I'll put together a beta version of it and test it today. Later I'll update this with the test list and potential changes.
Marath's been putting up results on Modo, so maybe we can bring this thread back to life.
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What do you guys think about Gahiji as a replacement? Or am I going to be further ahead jumping ship to another color identity altogether.
What are your plans for the future once we most likely can't use Marath as our commander any more?
Playing on very few commanders is not a reason not to like a card. You can play Recruiter on Animar and Xenagos as well or any commander that wants to combo out with twin.
That being said Recruiter is one of the best cards to have. lt is a cmc3 tutor that gets a lot of things and can be reanimated or copied for extra value. Also it feeds pod very well.
Not having one won't hurt that much but it really is an amazing card on Marath.
Haven't you heard that marath is what makes blue strong because it pushes away aggro from the format? The best way to nerf blue control is to ban Marath.
lol
Edit: Having said all that I just want to say I'm not certain Marath should have been banned eithor. He wasn't exactly dominating the format. I'm glad Ooze is gone because Sidisi was everywhere and an even harder matchup for (non blue) creature decks.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I think the "rule" (I put quotes because I know it's not set in stone, rather the collective sentiments of the decision-makers and some players) is that a deck's dominance/prominence in a format is no the sole dictating factor in the decision to ban or not ban a certain card. In my opinion, having played Marath all the way from a casual-ish elfball version years ago up to a fine-tuned iteration a couple months ago, Marath just wrecked many decks that played with creatures less than 3 toughness. These were typically aggro/midrange decks, and yes, blue/control matchups (e.g. flip Jace) were not necessarily easy or in our favor, but most matchups could be won even if not likely a large percentage of the times.
Regardless of whether or not what I just said is really true, putting three very different and very versatile abilities on an aggressively costed creature is a pretty bad idea from a design standpoint. If Marath costs 5 do you think he's banned now? Probably not (I'll concede a "maybe"). Just like JtMS: four good abilities at a relatively low cost is almost virtual card advantage and we all know what wins games...
Marath competes with Jenara and GWB generals as midrange decks available and, lMO, he was the best midrange option available to players.
As all midrange deck in formats that support a midrange strategy, it trumped most aggressive strategies by going bigger, and was able to face some control strategies because of the combos that were played - but due to his colors it suffered against some strategies only available on Duel Commander, like commanders that could exploit cards such as Devastation and Jokulhaups, and reanimation strategies that dodged Marath's few cards that could interact with the graveyard.
Marath's midrange was strongest against creatures, while GWB and Jenara played better against control. That's why it was best when Yisan was on the format, and it was bad when Oloro was domination the field. lt was also pretty bad against Animar, a very strong and heavily played general before the mulligan change, but it also too a hit when it happened.
lt was oppressive lF you want to push a more aggressive meta. l never lost with it (never) when playing against Mono-W - as they could not interact well with our combos - and had nearly a 90% win-rate against Zurgo. On the other hand l had a very poor win-rate against URx generals and even Daretti felt a little like a coin toss.
The moment to ban Marath was between 6 months and an year ago, when Gaea's Cradle was around and Blue was ***** because of Yisan. That's when he was a real problem for the game. Now, the only real reason to outright ban Marath is to fabricate a meta. Birthing Pod and Survival of the fittest were the real engine of the deck and Marath leaned a lot on those cards to be "oppressive" - but those cards are problems with all generals. They were much better options to get the axe at this moment.
I don't have many of the cards for this deck anymore but I'll put together a beta version of it and test it today. Later I'll update this with the test list and potential changes.
Marath's been putting up results on Modo, so maybe we can bring this thread back to life.