Oath is really good, especially early, but it also places severe restraints on deckbuilding. You eliminate your access to utility cards like eternal witness, snapcaster mage, etc. to make every oath activation a legitimate bomb. And it relies on your opponent having more creatures than you which in the control/combo matchup is not at all a given. And you won't have forbidden orchard every game.
French EDH BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB B Braids, Cabal Minion B G Titania, Protector of Argoth G R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us My Street Art
I don't see how that's good. Most swarm decks are dependent on their general, so a Lightning bolt variant should be all you need, the swarm's attack won't hit hard.
I don't see how that's good. Most swarm decks are dependent on their general, so a Lightning bolt variant should be all you need, the swarm's attack won't hit hard.
Kills edric and prevents his swarm from attacking, which could be relevant. Intimidation Bolt is really good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
What Happened to Azusa? She's Tier A (1)...She's Ramp
She's kind of irrelevant in this format. If you counter Azusa just once, the tempo it loses is too much to return from. Too many lands to force Azusa to work means you've got a really crappy threat density and are too easily disrupted.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I'm already running Sylvan Scrying, Expedition Map, Knight of the Reliquary, and Primeval Titan. The first two spells will definitely need to be countered now, which means one less counter for my general or whatever win con I have in hand. Lol this land is ridiculous! I think it might be time to start running Vesuva, too.
I can see why this has been called 'meta-changing'. It seems to me that one or more of the following will ensue:-
a) Most players will buy one
b) Strip Mine might be unbanned
c) Cavern of Souls might be banned!
d) Red will see an even greater swing to it
e) Multiplayer EDH becomes ever more annoying, and more players will explore 1v1 French!
I hope that the price falls, and that the card turns out to be not so indispensable, and that only e) of the above turns out to be true.
I agree with points c and d. To unban Strip would make things even more swingy and abusive. I can't see this card having a healthy affect on 1v1 French EDH.
How is Strip Mine swingy and abusive? Please explain, because understanding this particular ban is beyond my comprehension.
Abusive because of Life from the Loam, and swingy because a timely Strip early on can just randomly steal a game. The same could be said of Waste, but having Strip means not even your basics are safe.
I think it's healthy for the format to be able to count on basic lands being safe from land-form LD.
Yea, I'm going to have to agree with Emether on this one. It'll strengthen Ezuri, Iname, Arcum Dagson, Sisay, Zur, Ruhan and probably remain neutral in Edric and Geist. Of those, Iname, Sisay, Ruhan and Zur will see the biggest benefit, which is just fine. It'll probably not see any play in Animar, and if anything hurt it by the increase in Iname and Ruhan.
In any event, aside from making Wydwyn frown, i'm willing to bet that Cave of Elements will promote more diversity in the format, which is actually a good thing.
Hello everyone! I have been lurking this thread for some time now. Two good friends of mine, mutedequilibrium and evergreen, are getting me in to French EDH and I am in the process of building two decks for our gauntlet. Anyway, I just wanted to say hi and chime in on the current topic that is, Cavern of Souls.
I was really excited when I first saw this land, mainly because I am building Ezuri for my playgroup. I think it will be rather strong in decks that can tutor it up readily, mainly Ezuri, Zur and Iname. Considering that two of these decks are not huge forces in the meta, I think that it will be fine to throw them a bone.
Although I understand the sheer powerlevel of the card I think that a hasty banning isn't necessary. I think they should allow the card and least two ban cycles before we consider its banning. That should give us all a fair amount of time to test the card out to determine its true powerlevel.
Could I please get some input from anyone who cares to comment - on the choice between Rafiq and Jenara as Bant-colored generals?
I've spoken to a few people who say that Jenara's edge in the Edric matchups are why she is being chosen above Rafiq, and I'm kinda torn whether or not I should switch my focus.
On the one hand, Rafiq's granting double strike to the single attacker can create quick victories, even with terrible board position, out of nowhere, especially with something like Inkmoth Nexus or the Agent.
On the other hand, I have begun to move away from a fast, 'All in Rafiq' build of the kind that OmniDreamer's primer suggests, towards a more versatile and responsive build (so aggro-control as opposed to raw aggro). It has seemed to fare better against the control matchups (e.g. Horde).
But if I'm happy sacrificing explosive power for versatility, should I not consider switching to Jenara altogether? She can come out faster and can also pump pretty big.
For those with any input to help me make this decision, I'd be very grateful for any advice. I have the shocks and fetches, 2 Swords, and a plethora of other good stuff, so have some of the ingredients common to both, I'm just kinda at a loss right now as to which way to go.
Rafiq has been fun to play with, but maybe I should switch to Jenara if I want to be truly competitive?
Jenara is a mana cheaper meaning she can be played turn 2 with aggressive draws and she has evasion. I'm a big fan of temp in my aggressive decks and she simply gives you a much bigger tempo advantage it seems.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
You're also forgetting to mention that she has flying which Edric relies on to get easy damage over. Blocking a flier + being bigger than Edric means that she is much more favorable over Rafiq. Getting pumped and swinging for 2HKO late game also makes her invaluable.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
French EDH BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB B Braids, Cabal Minion B G Titania, Protector of Argoth G R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us My Street Art
Since this is the French EDH rules thread I guess, two questions:
1. Are color changing transform cards like Garruk, the Relentless single or dual color identity for deck construction purposes?
2. What's the wishboard status for French EDH? None? Everything?
I want to cast any number of Eldrazi cards I own from outside the game
Since this is the French EDH rules thread I guess, two questions:
1. Are color changing transform cards like Garruk, the Relentless single or dual color identity for deck construction purposes?
2. What's the wishboard status for French EDH? None? Everything?
I want to cast any number of Eldrazi cards I own from outside the game
As far as I know, the backside of transform cards don't contain mana symbols, therefore making them colorless. I don't know the oracle texts of all transform cards, but I haven't seen one yet that contains different colors on the back than it does on the front.
Upon the conclusion of the current tournament here at Salvation which will hopefully conclude by the end of this month (and, y'know, after this crazy hectic school semester is over for me), I'm going to update the tournament Tier list. Some very interesting things have been happening over the last 6 months, and I think the results will reflect a meta that has finally adjusted with more spot removal and a lower curve to compete with Edric. Exciting stuff!
If there have been any tournaments of late whose results haven't been shared for whatever reason, I definitely encourage you to post those results here so the data can be considered in the updated tier list.
Oh man, imagine the changes six months from now, after Cavern of Souls has made its way into a ton of decks. Get your foil Ghost Quarters now!
Also, I'll be taking another stab at the general deckbuilding advice section. Needs a major overhaul.
I know that Magicror and myself are playing it since we had a head to head. But the other top 3 decks (that are 3-0) are not Edric. I've seen a wide variety of decks in the hunt for Top 8ish, which is pretty cool. People are piloting their best, favorite general. I like that a lot
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
French EDH BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB B Braids, Cabal Minion B G Titania, Protector of Argoth G R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us My Street Art
Hi. This tournament shall be very interesting. But I am wondering : how many Edric are there in that tournament ? Edric is less played on Cockatrice than IRL, but I hope people here have finally adopted it, for a better view of the metagame.
Edric is more or less just simply the de-facto tournament battler deck. It's relatively cheap, aside from bombs that many probably already have, and it's effective. Online though, where you have the flexibility to put together anything and the players are overall more savvy, it's a lot less impressive imo. At this point, I'd argue that the cockatrice meta is more developed than IRL.
Edric is less represented on Cockatrice (even if probably still the most commonly seen deck, the proportion of "Edric to Other Decks" is different online). However, this has as much to do ith the availability of all the cards offering more experimentation (and indeed, no prize incentives) as it does that this experimentation has made Cockatrice host to a TON of very viable red-based control decks, fast and dedicated combo builds, and extinction builds that Edric is especially susceptible to. In my personal experience piloting Edric online in this meta vs. the top deckbuilders bringing their best to the table: Edric either loses hard or steals a win by virtue of getting active and swinging with just a few guys per turn. But again, that's only against the decks that are well aware of him and have either adjusted to hose pretty much all of the aggro-control builds or are just faster at what they do. I try not to factor in those deckbuilders who are playing Progenetius and Vivid lands. ;P
Evergreen keenly noted that, of those who boast a positive matchup vs Edric, you can really only be about 55:45 at best. In contrast to other positive matchups, where you beat a deck say, 70:30. So Edric is weird in that he's especially susceptible to getting blown out by a very popular archetype online, but it's actually not as simple as it looks, as Edric can easily swing games as few other generals can.
That said, I've found the volatility way too frustrating for my taste, and I don't bother playing Edric online anymore. Because he really requires a certain amount of creatures to be at all viable (and, assuredly, I've added all of the playable protections for him to fight through all the spot removal), I'd rather try my hand at a mid-range deck in a tournament setting, and I think that's true of most of the current players.
But yeah, everyone's got a different experience. Like you, Emether, Perfekt says he's winning nearly all of his matchups piloting Edric. And I seem to have the unique distinction of giving my opponents absurdly good luck in topdecking all the right hate cards against my builds, so there's that. ;P
Would have been obscene with that meta..
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
http://www.magiccorporation.com/gathering-forum-viewtopic-95-97451-tournoi-st-nazaire-le-dimanche-er-avril-a-joueurs.html
The Ruhan list was put up by the player from the tournament I'm pretty sure. So here it is.
Cockatrice Friendly List
1 Wasteland
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Rishadan Port
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Tundra
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Mystic Gate
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Arid Mesa
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Command Tower
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Shivan Reef
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Adarkar Wastes
5 Snow-Covered Island
4 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Academy Rector
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Izzet Signet
1 Azorius Signet
1 Boros Signet
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Coalition Relic
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Grim Monolith
1 Courier's Capsule
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
1 Chandra Nalaar
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Gideon Jura
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Frantic Search
1 Impulse
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Jace's Ingenuity
1 Counterspell
1 Dissipate
1 Dismiss
1 Exclude
1 Remand
1 Complicate
1 Memory Lapse
1 Force of Will
1 Miscalculation
1 Cryptic Command
1 Repeal
1 Snap
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Future Sight
1 Spreading Seas
1 Treachery
1 Propaganda
1 Pyroclasm
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Wildfire
1 Destructive Force
1 Pillage
1 Orim's Chant
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgment
1 Armageddon
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Disenchant
1 Humility
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Lightning Helix
1 Suffocating Blast
1 Intimidation Bolt
1 Electrolyze
1 Fire // Ice
1 Ruhan of the Fomori
BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW
GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB
B Braids, Cabal Minion B
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
My Street Art
I don't see how that's good. Most swarm decks are dependent on their general, so a Lightning bolt variant should be all you need, the swarm's attack won't hit hard.
Kills edric and prevents his swarm from attacking, which could be relevant. Intimidation Bolt is really good.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
She's kind of irrelevant in this format. If you counter Azusa just once, the tempo it loses is too much to return from. Too many lands to force Azusa to work means you've got a really crappy threat density and are too easily disrupted.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
I'm already running Sylvan Scrying, Expedition Map, Knight of the Reliquary, and Primeval Titan. The first two spells will definitely need to be countered now, which means one less counter for my general or whatever win con I have in hand. Lol this land is ridiculous! I think it might be time to start running Vesuva, too.
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1uunRdQ61M
I agree with points c and d. To unban Strip would make things even more swingy and abusive. I can't see this card having a healthy affect on 1v1 French EDH.
Love ya buddy, but.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UfAL9f74I
Whelp. This isn't going to end well.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
BACK TO EZURIIIII
Abusive because of Life from the Loam, and swingy because a timely Strip early on can just randomly steal a game. The same could be said of Waste, but having Strip means not even your basics are safe.
I think it's healthy for the format to be able to count on basic lands being safe from land-form LD.
In any event, aside from making Wydwyn frown, i'm willing to bet that Cave of Elements will promote more diversity in the format, which is actually a good thing.
I was really excited when I first saw this land, mainly because I am building Ezuri for my playgroup. I think it will be rather strong in decks that can tutor it up readily, mainly Ezuri, Zur and Iname. Considering that two of these decks are not huge forces in the meta, I think that it will be fine to throw them a bone.
Although I understand the sheer powerlevel of the card I think that a hasty banning isn't necessary. I think they should allow the card and least two ban cycles before we consider its banning. That should give us all a fair amount of time to test the card out to determine its true powerlevel.
Jenara is a mana cheaper meaning she can be played turn 2 with aggressive draws and she has evasion. I'm a big fan of temp in my aggressive decks and she simply gives you a much bigger tempo advantage it seems.
BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW
GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB
B Braids, Cabal Minion B
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
My Street Art
1. Are color changing transform cards like Garruk, the Relentless single or dual color identity for deck construction purposes?
2. What's the wishboard status for French EDH? None? Everything?
I want to cast any number of Eldrazi cards I own from outside the game
1. Garruk Relentless is still considered G/B.
2. I've never seen a wishboard used in a French tournament, so I assume wishes are banned.
Daybreak Ranger's flipside has a red mana symbol.
Upon the conclusion of the current tournament here at Salvation which will hopefully conclude by the end of this month (and, y'know, after this crazy hectic school semester is over for me), I'm going to update the tournament Tier list. Some very interesting things have been happening over the last 6 months, and I think the results will reflect a meta that has finally adjusted with more spot removal and a lower curve to compete with Edric. Exciting stuff!
If there have been any tournaments of late whose results haven't been shared for whatever reason, I definitely encourage you to post those results here so the data can be considered in the updated tier list.
Oh man, imagine the changes six months from now, after Cavern of Souls has made its way into a ton of decks. Get your foil Ghost Quarters now!
Also, I'll be taking another stab at the general deckbuilding advice section. Needs a major overhaul.
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW
GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB
B Braids, Cabal Minion B
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
My Street Art
Edric is more or less just simply the de-facto tournament battler deck. It's relatively cheap, aside from bombs that many probably already have, and it's effective. Online though, where you have the flexibility to put together anything and the players are overall more savvy, it's a lot less impressive imo. At this point, I'd argue that the cockatrice meta is more developed than IRL.
Edric is less represented on Cockatrice (even if probably still the most commonly seen deck, the proportion of "Edric to Other Decks" is different online). However, this has as much to do ith the availability of all the cards offering more experimentation (and indeed, no prize incentives) as it does that this experimentation has made Cockatrice host to a TON of very viable red-based control decks, fast and dedicated combo builds, and extinction builds that Edric is especially susceptible to. In my personal experience piloting Edric online in this meta vs. the top deckbuilders bringing their best to the table: Edric either loses hard or steals a win by virtue of getting active and swinging with just a few guys per turn. But again, that's only against the decks that are well aware of him and have either adjusted to hose pretty much all of the aggro-control builds or are just faster at what they do. I try not to factor in those deckbuilders who are playing Progenetius and Vivid lands. ;P
Evergreen keenly noted that, of those who boast a positive matchup vs Edric, you can really only be about 55:45 at best. In contrast to other positive matchups, where you beat a deck say, 70:30. So Edric is weird in that he's especially susceptible to getting blown out by a very popular archetype online, but it's actually not as simple as it looks, as Edric can easily swing games as few other generals can.
That said, I've found the volatility way too frustrating for my taste, and I don't bother playing Edric online anymore. Because he really requires a certain amount of creatures to be at all viable (and, assuredly, I've added all of the playable protections for him to fight through all the spot removal), I'd rather try my hand at a mid-range deck in a tournament setting, and I think that's true of most of the current players.
But yeah, everyone's got a different experience. Like you, Emether, Perfekt says he's winning nearly all of his matchups piloting Edric. And I seem to have the unique distinction of giving my opponents absurdly good luck in topdecking all the right hate cards against my builds, so there's that. ;P
Duel Commander Mega-Thread